Speaker 1: Hi, good a champs. Hope your bloody great. I'm sitting
Speaker 1: you don't need to know this, but eleven forty seven,
Speaker 1: eleven forty seven, slide down Harps Sunday morning, not evening,
Speaker 1: Sunday morning. It's beautiful outside. I'm going to chat to
Speaker 1: you for twenty or thirty. Then I'm going to get
Speaker 1: my old ass outside in some bare feet and traverse
Speaker 1: the fucking urban landscape like the ninja that I am.
Speaker 1: Get my feet in the earth, a bit of grounding.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a bit of vitamin D carefully
Speaker 1: on my body because I've had a million things cut off.
Speaker 1: It's I might say hello to a few people. I
Speaker 1: might pick some caffeine up on the journey. Then I
Speaker 1: might come home and sit in a bloody front yard
Speaker 1: like the King of the world. But before I do
Speaker 1: all of that, I want to talk to you about perfection.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the idea of
Speaker 1: progress over perfection. Now I don't think I've really ever
Speaker 1: been personally a perfectionist, but I've always been very interested
Speaker 1: in being a better version of me, a more high performing,
Speaker 1: a more educated, a fitter, or stronger blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Like many of you, I've always been
Speaker 1: fascinated with performance and productivity and effectiveness and potential and
Speaker 1: doing the work and creating outcomes. And as I said recently,
Speaker 1: you know, like I think that we don't want to
Speaker 1: be the person who's getting up every day, jumping out
Speaker 1: of bed and just all day every day is all
Speaker 1: about how do I be better? Think better, do better?
Speaker 1: Because we've got to we've got to live. We've got
Speaker 1: to have life. We've got to have We're going to
Speaker 1: have peaks and troughs. We need to laugh, we need
Speaker 1: to have some downtime. We need to have some fuck
Speaker 1: all days, as I call them, where we do fuck all,
Speaker 1: we achieve fuck all, we're not particularly effective or productive
Speaker 1: or proactive. We're not killing it, we're not crushing it,
Speaker 1: we're not ticking boxes. We also need time where we're
Speaker 1: just having fun and being human. But in the space
Speaker 1: that I work, where I've worked with lots of people
Speaker 1: who are what you would call high performers, with athletes,
Speaker 1: with entertainers, with people in politics, with people in business,
Speaker 1: with people in you know, the general community who really
Speaker 1: want to be the best version of themselves, there can
Speaker 1: tend to be, I guess perfectionistic behavior and thinking. And
Speaker 1: while I think aiming for better or improvement or growth
Speaker 1: or learning or development or evolution is great, I think
Speaker 1: that aiming for perfection, which many people seem to and
Speaker 1: being even I reckon I've made a mistake in that
Speaker 1: I talk about okay, so I'm throwing me under the
Speaker 1: bus here. I think I talk too much sometimes about
Speaker 1: being the best version of me, or you being the
Speaker 1: best version of you. And I guess what I really
Speaker 1: should say, what is a better strategy? Is better? Better?
Speaker 1: Let's be a better version and maybe one day I'll
Speaker 1: end up somewhere close to the best version of me.
Speaker 1: I don't know, And I mean, how do we know?
Speaker 1: How do I know what the absolute best version of
Speaker 1: me is? Psychologically, emotionally, mentally, physiologically, creatively, professionally, personally, How
Speaker 1: do I know? How do I know? And I guess
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I think we need to get
Speaker 1: our head around the idea that chasing perfection and absolute
Speaker 1: optimal is sometimes a problem, not a solution. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think chasing perfect is a shit strategy, and not
Speaker 1: because the idea of excellence is bad, but because perfection
Speaker 1: is really real It's not sustainable day to day in
Speaker 1: any practical, real world, human kind of doing life. I've
Speaker 1: never met anyone who's perfect. I've never met anyone who's
Speaker 1: really perfected anything. Maybe I've met people who have been
Speaker 1: close to perfecting certain things, or maybe I have met them.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think, if if we can be
Speaker 1: really really practical about where we are with whatever component
Speaker 1: of our life it is that you know, whether or
Speaker 1: not we're talking about our work or our finances, or
Speaker 1: our physical, mental, or emotional health, or our productivity or efficiency,
Speaker 1: or our career, and we can figure out where we
Speaker 1: are and where we want to be, and we can
Speaker 1: move the needle. We can move in that direction, and
Speaker 1: then we can see growth, we can see development, we
Speaker 1: can see advancement. Then we're moving in the right direction,
Speaker 1: and we're not creating a mindset that makes it impossible
Speaker 1: to win. Because if perfection is the only outcome that
Speaker 1: will make you happy or feel fulfilled or like you've
Speaker 1: been successful, it perfection's the only option. If that's the
Speaker 1: only goal, then we're going to spend our life being miserable,
Speaker 1: not because we're not learning or growing or getting better,
Speaker 1: but because we've created a psychological and or emotional prison
Speaker 1: that we live in, and we can only get out
Speaker 1: of that prison when we reach nirvana, when we reach perfection,
Speaker 1: when we're at our absolute human optimal level, whatever the
Speaker 1: fuck that is. So I think we've been conditioned to
Speaker 1: romanticized perfection, you know, optimal performance, the best version of you,
Speaker 1: as I said before, maybe the better version of you,
Speaker 1: or the way better version of you, or even the
Speaker 1: fucking slightly not so shit version of you that you
Speaker 1: have been. Hey, guess what, I'm slightly less shit. Well done,
Speaker 1: ro That's amazing, And now I'm even less shit as
Speaker 1: long as we're getting better, you know, like one hundred
Speaker 1: percent be all you can be. It sounds sexy, it
Speaker 1: sounds inspirational, and on a poster, I guess it kind
Speaker 1: of looks amazing. But in practice, this mindset of perfection
Speaker 1: is the only goal. It sets people up for failure
Speaker 1: and disappointment and burnout and frustration and feeling like they're
Speaker 1: never good enough even when they are improving, even when
Speaker 1: they are making progress, even when good things are happening.
Speaker 1: And have you noticed the old moving goalpost syndrome two?
Speaker 1: Is that like even when we say I want to
Speaker 1: achieve X. How many people have you known? Or maybe
Speaker 1: you're the person when they achieve X. Whatever X represents
Speaker 1: they achieve X. It could be an income, It could
Speaker 1: be a kind of result in business or life or relationship.
Speaker 1: Or it could be a number that could be a
Speaker 1: time they run. It could be a body composition, percentage
Speaker 1: that they reach. It could be any kind of anything,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. But they get there, they achieve it, and
Speaker 1: the amount of people go, Wow, I've done that. I'm good. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm content, I'm happy. And for a range
Speaker 1: of reasons that we won't go into, we know that
Speaker 1: virtually every person who got where they wanted to go
Speaker 1: with a goal then within a short period of time
Speaker 1: is not content anymore. Now they tell themselves a story
Speaker 1: that one X isn't enough. What I need is one
Speaker 1: and a half X, what I need is two x
Speaker 1: three X, And of course when they get to three X,
Speaker 1: the same thing happens. And so we have this weird relationship.
Speaker 1: We have this you know, moving goalpost kind of mentality
Speaker 1: that whatever I have, it isn't enough. Whatever I did,
Speaker 1: it's not enough. Wherever I am, it's not where I
Speaker 1: want to be, whatever I earn it's not enough. However,
Speaker 1: good I look now for me who's worked with thousands
Speaker 1: of people, I'm going to be honest, Like a lot
Speaker 1: of people, Yeah, we want to be healthy and fit
Speaker 1: and functional, of course, but of course a lot of
Speaker 1: people want to look a certain way. Now, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that's good, bad, or and different, but I'm telling
Speaker 1: you what I've experienced, and many, many, many many people are,
Speaker 1: for a period of time anyway, more concerned with how
Speaker 1: they look than they are their health. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it should be this way. I'm saying it is this way.
Speaker 1: I've also never met anyone who has changed the way
Speaker 1: they look and got to go from what they didn't
Speaker 1: want to look like and eventually ended up looking the
Speaker 1: way that they wanted to or weighing the weight or
Speaker 1: having the body composition or having the muscle or having
Speaker 1: the shape or the size or the whatever the fuck
Speaker 1: they wanted and went wow, boom, I'm here. That's it.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to cruise now. I'm going to maintain
Speaker 1: this is me. I am happy, I'm fulfilled, I'm content,
Speaker 1: my body looks great, and emotionally and psychologically i'm set, set,
Speaker 1: and up, it doesn't happen, right, And that's again that's
Speaker 1: another podcast. But you know, I think part of that.
Speaker 1: I'll digress for a moment because I think this might
Speaker 1: resonate with some of you. Part of that is because
Speaker 1: I think anyway, and I did this. So I'm speaking
Speaker 1: as an exis scientist and a research and I'm also
Speaker 1: speaking as a person who had body maybe still has
Speaker 1: body dysmorphea, who was never happy with how they looked
Speaker 1: or their way to their fucking muscles or whatever, right,
Speaker 1: And I was always trying to get some kind of
Speaker 1: internal shift through my body, like I was always trying to,
Speaker 1: I guess, resolve some kind of psychological, emotional, or sociological
Speaker 1: or spiritual internal issue with bigger arms and what a
Speaker 1: great plan that was, or bigger shoulders or less body
Speaker 1: fat or a smaller waist or and all of that.
Speaker 1: For me, I'll only talk for me because then no
Speaker 1: one else can get offended. But for me, all of
Speaker 1: that came out of fear and anxiety and self loathing
Speaker 1: and self doubt and insecurity and the need for approval.
Speaker 1: And I just wanted people to notice and like and
Speaker 1: love and if I looked a certain way, then I
Speaker 1: would get all of this shit that would make me happy,
Speaker 1: and then I ended up looking the way that I wanted,
Speaker 1: And of course the other stuff wasn't there because the
Speaker 1: problem was never really my body in the first place,
Speaker 1: and my internal issues were never going to be resolved
Speaker 1: or solved or changed or fixed with fucking big deltoids, Right,
Speaker 1: So I just think that understanding I'm digressing a little
Speaker 1: bit in this perfection conversation, but also understanding that the
Speaker 1: internal stuff that we have, the internal drivers, aren't always resolved,
Speaker 1: or the internal needs or emotional and or psychological chasms
Speaker 1: holes are not always resolved by doing something in the
Speaker 1: real three dimensional world, by getting more, doing more, having more.
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily fix anything. It doesn't necessarily fix anything.
Speaker 1: And you know, even when you think about perfection, not
Speaker 1: only is that a dumb goal, but it's also it's
Speaker 1: a mindset, it's a way of thinking. And some people
Speaker 1: have said to me, but don't you think it's better
Speaker 1: to aim for perfection because you know you're setting the
Speaker 1: bar really high, and because you're setting it so high,
Speaker 1: you'll it'll even if you don't get there, you'll be
Speaker 1: way ahead of where you are currently and it might
Speaker 1: make you achieve a better outcome than if you just
Speaker 1: set the bar for say, improvement. And I understand that,
Speaker 1: but here's what I'll say to that. Now, While let's
Speaker 1: say perfection is a ten and you're aiming for a ten,
Speaker 1: your goal is a ten. You want a ten. That's
Speaker 1: the focus, that's the intention, that's the plan. The problem
Speaker 1: with that is anything less than a ten will result
Speaker 1: in disappointment and frustration. Whereas if I'm a five and
Speaker 1: I'm aiming for a six or a seven or an eight,
Speaker 1: and I get a six or a seven or an eight,
Speaker 1: I don't experience the same self induced disappointment and frustration
Speaker 1: because I'm not all about perfection. I'm all about learning, growing,
Speaker 1: evolving and getting better. And the idea of perfection it
Speaker 1: doesn't really motivate people. It paralyzes them because when the
Speaker 1: goal is flawlessness, the second you slip, the second you
Speaker 1: have a shitty day or you don't nail the outcome,
Speaker 1: you feel like a failure. You feel like all the effort,
Speaker 1: the growth, the steps forward, they don't really matter. In fact,
Speaker 1: you don't notice them. You don't notice the growth or
Speaker 1: the progress or the steps forward. Or the moving of
Speaker 1: the metaphoric needle. You don't notice it because you're only
Speaker 1: concerned with being the ten, with getting the ten. And
Speaker 1: not only is that not a helpful mindset, it's a
Speaker 1: fucking self destructive, toxic recipe for disaster, for internal chaos.
Speaker 1: But if we take that mindset of perfectionism and ten
Speaker 1: out of tenness, and we compare that to a mindset
Speaker 1: built on growth, on improvement, on better, not best, better,
Speaker 1: not flawless, just improved, better habits, better conversations, better self talk,
Speaker 1: better choice is better thinking not every day, not all day,
Speaker 1: not all the time, but most of the time over time.
Speaker 1: Like better, we can do better. Better is achievable. Perfection
Speaker 1: is not achievable. Better is empowering, Better builds momentum. Better
Speaker 1: works practically, but perfect doesn't. And when you focus on better,
Speaker 1: not perfect, you actually enjoy the process more. You notice
Speaker 1: the winds, you track your progress. You're not constantly comparing
Speaker 1: yourself to some fantasy version of you or who you
Speaker 1: think you should be. You're just doing the work like
Speaker 1: I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm evolving, I've made progress today.
Speaker 1: The other day I cleaned. This sounds cliche, but I
Speaker 1: literally cleaned the old spare room. And it's funny, I
Speaker 1: made all of this in one very tiny, diminutive component
Speaker 1: of my existence, my practical reality. And I looked at
Speaker 1: that room at the end of the day. I wasn't
Speaker 1: in there all day, but I was in and out
Speaker 1: all day, in between other things. At the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I just felt fucking great. You know when
Speaker 1: you I don't know about you, but like when it's
Speaker 1: like when I go into my kitchen and there's dirty dishes,
Speaker 1: which is really not very often, but versus there's no dishes,
Speaker 1: the kitchen is clean. I feel great. Now this is
Speaker 1: just me, but you know what's going to work for you.
Speaker 1: I know for me, if I start the day with
Speaker 1: a bit of a to do list, some intentions of
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do, and at the end of
Speaker 1: the day I've done that, I feel like a fucking winner.
Speaker 1: I don't need to have changed the world or cured
Speaker 1: cancer or you know, flowing the fucking space shuttle. I
Speaker 1: just need to go. I set out to do these things.
Speaker 1: I've done these things. That's good. I'm going all right.
Speaker 1: I'm not perfect, but I'm going all right. I'm improving,
Speaker 1: I'm getting better. You know, we're just doing the work.
Speaker 1: We're just learning, we're just adjusting and growing. And it's
Speaker 1: in the middle of all of that, just doing the
Speaker 1: stuff each day is where the actual, sustainable, measurable progress happens.
Speaker 1: Perfection tells you you're not there yet. Keep suffering. Improvement
Speaker 1: tells you you're already on the way. You're doing great learning,
Speaker 1: you're ticking boxes, you're doing all rights. You've got a
Speaker 1: reason to smile, keep growing and evolving and keep going.
Speaker 1: I've literally worked with thousands of people in this space,
Speaker 1: from high performers to you know, like I said before, educators, athletes,
Speaker 1: everyday battlers trying to create change. And I can tell
Speaker 1: you that the ones who make lasting progress are never
Speaker 1: the ones who obsessed, who are obsessed with perfection. They
Speaker 1: might be obsessed with being better or working towards a
Speaker 1: version of optimal while keeping their feet on the ground. Moreover,
Speaker 1: Comma your honor, it's the ones who are consistent, who
Speaker 1: are curious, who fuck up and get up, who are honest,
Speaker 1: who are accountable, who can do good shit and dumb shit,
Speaker 1: and regroup peaks and troughs and keep moving forward. And
Speaker 1: here's another thing. If you're always aiming for optimal, you
Speaker 1: might never appreciate what's already working and what's going great.
Speaker 1: You could be growing, healing, changing, getting better, but because
Speaker 1: you're still not perfect, you have this sense of failure,
Speaker 1: You have this frustration because that perfection mindset steals your joy.
Speaker 1: It also steals your perspective and your peace and your
Speaker 1: ability to feel proud of what you're doing and where
Speaker 1: you are, even if you're not where you want to
Speaker 1: be yet. You know, when you look up and you know,
Speaker 1: I always talk about doing a treasure hunt on your life,
Speaker 1: and one of my mentors taught me this concept years ago,
Speaker 1: doing a treasure hunt on my life and to you know,
Speaker 1: look past the two problems that I have at the
Speaker 1: one hundred and two blessings that I have, the great
Speaker 1: things about my life, and when I have that attitude
Speaker 1: of gratitude, when I really and I know I'm getting
Speaker 1: a bit deep and philosophical, but fuck it, it's me
Speaker 1: and I go, well, you know, I'm sitting in my
Speaker 1: office right now talking to thousands of people who listen
Speaker 1: to my stuff. That's pretty cool. I can stand up
Speaker 1: from the chair that I'm currently sitting and I can walk.
Speaker 1: A lot of people can't walk. A lot of people
Speaker 1: don't have the things that I have. I can walk
Speaker 1: downstairs and turn on a cold tap and fresh, clean,
Speaker 1: cold water comes out. I can go and have a
Speaker 1: hot shower. I can press a button right where I'm
Speaker 1: sitting now and air conditioning will come out into the
Speaker 1: room to cool me down. I can walk six hundred meters.
Speaker 1: I'm at the beach. How fucking amazing is my life?
Speaker 1: I have nothing to bitch about. Right. All of this
Speaker 1: is about the window through which we view the world.
Speaker 1: And when we build a window that is all about
Speaker 1: everything has to be perfect. If I'm not doing or
Speaker 1: being or creating or achieving or seeing perfect, then it's
Speaker 1: not good enough. Well, the problem is not the outcomes.
Speaker 1: The problem is not what you're doing, being, creating or
Speaker 1: not creating. The problem as you're fucking thinking. This perfectionistic
Speaker 1: mindset literally is a recipe for misery, not for success.
Speaker 1: So what if we changed the goal or we changed
Speaker 1: the thinking. What if it wasn't about reaching some imaginary,
Speaker 1: perfection driven endpoint. What if it was just about building
Speaker 1: a lifestyle and an operating system. As I always say,
Speaker 1: in a way of being and doing and thinking and
Speaker 1: choosing That leans into growth. Forget flawlessness, forget optimal, forget
Speaker 1: the best, just beta, less, flawed, more optimal. Perfection is
Speaker 1: a moving target. It's not a destination. It's a mirage.
Speaker 1: I want you to think about just a couple of
Speaker 1: practical things. Right, So all of that's true, But how
Speaker 1: do we now operationalize that? So how do we now
Speaker 1: it's my little mini three minute workshop for you. How
Speaker 1: do we move the needle in the right direction. That's cool, Craig,
Speaker 1: I get it. I understand that. But now what so
Speaker 1: here's maybe for some of you you're now what so
Speaker 1: if you were to do a quick stock take on
Speaker 1: the factors and variables that influence and impact and shape
Speaker 1: your life. So your life situation, your lifestyle, your life outcomes,
Speaker 1: your results that you're producing, and your life experience. That
Speaker 1: is how you experience what you so how physiologically, mentally, emotionally,
Speaker 1: and sociologically you experience that thing life that you're in
Speaker 1: the middle of. When you do a stock take on
Speaker 1: all of those variables and factors that influence, impact, and
Speaker 1: shape those four things life situation, lifestyle, life outcomes, and
Speaker 1: life experience, where are you?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Where are you with those things? And where do you
Speaker 1: want to be? So like if, for example, for example,
Speaker 1: we broke it down. Sorry about that, big SiGe. I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking. And when I'm thinking sometimes I say, I'm like,
Speaker 1: if we looked at physical health, if we got really
Speaker 1: specific and I went, Okay, what's possible, Let's go what's
Speaker 1: my let's go my current in this fictitious hypothetical. Right,
Speaker 1: let's go, well, what's possible for Craig. What's the absolute optimal?
Speaker 1: For Craig? The best that he could humanly do is
Speaker 1: attend where am I? Now, we'll go, Well, in terms
Speaker 1: of general health, I'm a four. Cool, Well let's not.
Speaker 1: Let's aim for a five. Let's and then let's once
Speaker 1: we get maybe, let's aim for it. Because I can
Speaker 1: do a five. I can get a five pretty. I
Speaker 1: could probably tweak a few things and maybe in a
Speaker 1: month my health has gone from a four to a five.
Speaker 1: But I tell you what, it's not going from a
Speaker 1: four to a ten. And the problem is when I'm
Speaker 1: aiming for a ten and in a year I'm still
Speaker 1: out only a seven. I've been disappointed for a fucking year,
Speaker 1: and I lose focus and motivation and drive because I'm
Speaker 1: still nowhere near the perfection that I'm chasing. So if
Speaker 1: I look at all of the things like sleep and
Speaker 1: exercise and food and recovery and energy levels and cognitive
Speaker 1: function and mental health and career and all the things,
Speaker 1: all the relationships, money, dough, all of it. You look
Speaker 1: at all of the things that comprise your practical life.
Speaker 1: Right Like, for example, if you had let's say you
Speaker 1: were making heaps of do and you had a great job,
Speaker 1: but your health was a two out of ten, guess what.
Speaker 1: Your life is not great. But let's say you had
Speaker 1: amazing health, amazing diet, you were very fit, but you
Speaker 1: are going backwards at two hundred dollars a week, you're
Speaker 1: under huge financial pressure, you've got a shit job that
Speaker 1: you hate, blah blah blah, then life's not good. So
Speaker 1: it's not about one or the other. It's about everything.
Speaker 1: It's about trying to create an overall plan based on
Speaker 1: our physical, mental, emotional, social, financial, practical needs and then
Speaker 1: getting an idea of where I'm at without overthinking it,
Speaker 1: without self loathing, without self judgment, just awareness, Like I
Speaker 1: might say, all right, well, where am I at with
Speaker 1: my finances, and I might go, well, my finances are
Speaker 1: a four, and then you go cool, Okay, well what
Speaker 1: would make that situation a five? What would make it
Speaker 1: a six? How do we move forward? I shift the needle?
Speaker 1: How do I get out of my fullness and into
Speaker 1: my fiveness? And who knows? Maybe one day you'll be
Speaker 1: an eight, nine, or god forbid, even a ten. Who knows.
Speaker 1: But what's a good goal now? Is four to five?
Speaker 1: That's a good goal. That's a smart goal, that's an
Speaker 1: achievable goal, that's practical. What's a good goal now? As well?
Speaker 1: I'm currently my sleep is a two out of ten
Speaker 1: for these reasons?
Speaker 2: Okay, what thing could you do to potentially move the
Speaker 2: needle from a two out of ten sleep hygiene or
Speaker 2: sleep result or protocol to a.
Speaker 1: Three or a four? Oh well, I eat in bed?
Speaker 1: Well that's shit because you're digesting food and that's going
Speaker 1: to interrupt sleep. So could you stop eating two or
Speaker 1: three hours? I could right do that? Could you maybe
Speaker 1: not look at screens for an hour before? I don't
Speaker 1: want to, but I could could you? Okay? Well? Will
Speaker 1: you right? So? This is not fucking curing cancer, This
Speaker 1: is not reinventing the wheel. This is not mind blowing shit.
Speaker 1: This is like okay, And by the way, you don't
Speaker 1: need to be a researcher or a scientist. You don't
Speaker 1: need to be groundbreaking lee brilliant either. I know you
Speaker 1: are all brilliant, by the way, but you don't need
Speaker 1: to be to do this shit. You go, Oh, the
Speaker 1: thing that I'm doing is not working. Oh cool, Well
Speaker 1: what are you currently doing? I'm doing this all right?
Speaker 1: Well how about we don't do that, or how about
Speaker 1: we do more of this other thing or less of
Speaker 1: that thing that's not working anyway. So the goal for you, guys,
Speaker 1: the goal for us, I believe is that we try
Speaker 1: and get better. Is that we day by day, moment
Speaker 1: by moment, decision by decision, opportunity by opportunity, whether or
Speaker 1: not it falls on our app or we create it,
Speaker 1: we do something, We do something to create momentum, to
Speaker 1: get the wheels turning to point ourselves in the right direction.
Speaker 1: So we're getting better, we're progressing, we're learning, we're evolving.
Speaker 1: We're not perfect. We're far from perfect. We'll all probably
Speaker 1: be far from perfect, and in the middle of our
Speaker 1: imperfection will all be one hundred percent human