Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's it's Tiff, it's doctor Gillespie,
Speaker 1: It's it's me, Fatty Harps. It's the you project. We'll
Speaker 1: start with the pugilist who's going through some emotional and
Speaker 1: hormonal and psychological and sociological issues. Nothing big, just just
Speaker 1: ticking all the fucking catastrophe boxes. It's a day to
Speaker 1: day proposition and I'm scared to ask, but what's the
Speaker 1: what's the update?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: I opened my eyes in the morning and I just
Speaker 3: wonder who I'm going to be?
Speaker 4: Who am I going to be today?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well you look, I mean, you look happy and
Speaker 1: how fucking big? I just looked at your face. How
Speaker 1: big are those glasses?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: But fucking cool?
Speaker 2: Are they very studious?
Speaker 4: Yeah? How smart do I look?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Very?
Speaker 2: Oh twice a smart? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Thank you twice?
Speaker 1: Is big?
Speaker 4: Thank you?
Speaker 1: You should You should get goalsspar at some stage to
Speaker 1: do a deep dive on Perry menopause so he can
Speaker 1: tell you what to do for the next few years.
Speaker 4: Can you fix me? You fix me?
Speaker 2: Ship is anywhere, dear beause, no perimenopause.
Speaker 1: She's just like she's walking down the corridor to the
Speaker 1: door that says menopause, and I'm not throwing her under
Speaker 1: the bus. This has been spoken about ad nauseum on
Speaker 1: the podcast everyone, so I don't think, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's divulging her private matters. No, she spoke about it
Speaker 1: at length. How are you feeling today? Do you still
Speaker 1: want to punch someone or are you better?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: It was another night of crap sleep, so and that
Speaker 3: doesn't help me. Crap sleep and very tired and no energy.
Speaker 3: But I went for a really light, short three.
Speaker 4: K jog before and I feel good after that.
Speaker 3: But it's just trying to balance that with not blowing
Speaker 3: myself out completely.
Speaker 1: Well, if you want to increase your dough for me.
Speaker 1: And there's a new product out called Scrollamine, which you
Speaker 1: were calling scroll of Mine, which is ridiculous, and David
Speaker 1: and I corrected you.
Speaker 4: I'll make I've got it on film. I'll make a
Speaker 4: thing and put it on your Instagram.
Speaker 1: That's no, I hate you. You meant to make me
Speaker 1: look good.
Speaker 3: Even Meliss is the boss and I'll go straight to
Speaker 3: the top with this one.
Speaker 1: Third on the ladder, Doctor Gillespie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: We haven't even spoken to you. How are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Good? No, just you know for new listeners. I'm
Speaker 2: not a doctor, despite what Craig says, but we will
Speaker 2: talk about medical stuff today despite not being a doctor.
Speaker 1: Well, of course we will. How are your hormones going?
Speaker 2: Are you?
Speaker 1: Are you any menopause?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: You know the thing called called andro pause? Have you
Speaker 1: heard it?
Speaker 2: Is there? Really?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I haven't heard of that and probably haven't experienced. I
Speaker 2: don't know, feel normal the same way as I always do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you do live a very healthy lifestyle. What's
Speaker 1: news on planet you? How's how's everything going? You still
Speaker 1: do you need me to come up with my money?
Speaker 1: Will be't help you? Just transfer some of it from
Speaker 1: room to room?
Speaker 2: You pay me?
Speaker 1: Can I can? I? No, I can't say it. I
Speaker 1: can't say it. I was going to say something about
Speaker 1: the U Project conference, but I can't say it. But
Speaker 1: maybe sooner I'll be able to say what I'm going
Speaker 1: to say. Everyone is there's a reasonable chance there's a
Speaker 1: reasonable chance that not doctor but David Gillespie will be
Speaker 1: at the conference, if not this year, next year. But
Speaker 1: we're trying to get it. We're just my guys are
Speaker 1: talking to his guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the.
Speaker 3: People are talking, Yes, Tiff, is he going to just
Speaker 3: stand behind a black screen so no one can see
Speaker 3: his face.
Speaker 4: We know what it looks like.
Speaker 2: Then no, I will be behind a black screen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well tell everyone why you said that, Tiff.
Speaker 3: Because we've never, ever, ever ever seen his face. This
Speaker 3: could be some AI David Gillespie never true camera on.
Speaker 2: It could be it probably is.
Speaker 1: What's happened.
Speaker 3: Imagine the lawsuit when the real David Gillespie gets hold
Speaker 3: of some.
Speaker 1: Of these episodes. Well what Tiff is saying everyone, which
Speaker 1: you're probably gleamed, but just if you haven't, I'll be clear.
Speaker 1: David leaves his camera off and he's never, ever, in
Speaker 1: any episode, for one minute, ever had it on. So
Speaker 1: Tiff and I have ours on and we can see
Speaker 1: each other's very handsome faces, and but we look at
Speaker 1: a black square, to be honest, more accurate, a rectangle
Speaker 1: with his name in it? Is that? Why is that?
Speaker 1: Is that? Because you don't think we're going to be
Speaker 1: able to cope with your face? What is that about?
Speaker 2: Yeah? The beauty, it will just blow your way. No,
Speaker 2: I just I can relax more when I'm not on Telly.
Speaker 2: I hate seeing myself on Telly, even even this Telly
Speaker 2: and I need to be relaxed to do this well,
Speaker 2: and so I prefer to do it, and you let
Speaker 2: me do it.
Speaker 1: So I do well. You do a very good job.
Speaker 1: But I can hear water splashing, so I'm operating the
Speaker 1: assumption that you're in the bath.
Speaker 2: So I really I think the water must be splashing
Speaker 2: at TIFFs place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, I can see her. There's no water involved.
Speaker 1: So you wrote an article recently about the fact that
Speaker 1: which I have not read, but I only heard about
Speaker 1: it just before we went live. My bad didn't do
Speaker 1: any research because I thought you'd rock up as you
Speaker 1: often just do and go nah, let's talk about this
Speaker 1: or that. But completely my fault. But the relationship between
Speaker 1: using our phone and ADHD that it might be correlated.
Speaker 2: Well, the title of the article is is your phone
Speaker 2: giving you ADHD? And for the ADHD listeners who just
Speaker 2: want to get to the point, the answer is yes,
Speaker 2: thanks and see you later. We'll catch you next week.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. The answer is yes, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: been David Gillespie. You see every second Thursday, all right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but let's dig in for the rest of
Speaker 2: your listeners and get to the bottom of it. This
Speaker 2: is prompted. The reason I wrote this article is there
Speaker 2: was an article last week in all the papers about
Speaker 2: the new South Wales government announcing that they were going
Speaker 2: to allow GPS to do ADHD diagnosis, which until now
Speaker 2: and in every other state is still restricted to specials
Speaker 2: I think psychiatrists too. So you have to you have
Speaker 2: to lay down some some serious green to get an
Speaker 2: ADHD diagnosis. And what they're saying is, well, that's backing
Speaker 2: up the system because the number of diagnoses is growing
Speaker 2: like crazy, and you know there's many, many more people
Speaker 2: who need the diagnosis than who are capable of, you know,
Speaker 2: being diagnosed by the existing health workforce. So we're going
Speaker 2: to our GPS do it. I guess the underlying question
Speaker 2: there is why do we suddenly have so many people
Speaker 2: needing diagnosis? And it's a question that's been raised in
Speaker 2: a lot of places in the UK and the US,
Speaker 2: and that's because when you look at the numbers they're
Speaker 2: pretty horrifying. If you look in the UK, recorded ADHD
Speaker 2: diagnosis shot up twentyfold, so not just twice, twenty times
Speaker 2: between two thousand and twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: So thousand percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's not nothing. That's that's a lot, and
Speaker 2: it's climbing an average of eighteen percent every year, so
Speaker 2: that's a very very significant. The US are similar similar
Speaker 2: stats there there are I think diagnosis went up. No,
Speaker 2: I didn't put their numbers in there, but they're similar numbers,
Speaker 2: same sort of numbers from memory. And if we look
Speaker 2: at medications, which is people might say, well, what does
Speaker 2: an ADHD diagnosis get you, Well, it gets you access
Speaker 2: to medication, which we've talked about before, which is essentially
Speaker 2: unfetter means. So an ADHD diagnosis gets you access to
Speaker 2: stimulant medication, and we're going to talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about why and what the mechanism is there and why
Speaker 2: that works. But if we look at medication sales in Australia,
Speaker 2: which is the most reliable source of statistics when you
Speaker 2: come to when it comes to medicine in Australia, because
Speaker 2: you can't fudge medication sales and they're published public data.
Speaker 2: So there were two per thousand people in two thousand
Speaker 2: and four, two thousand and five receiving medication for ADHD,
Speaker 2: So two thousand and four, two thousand and five, two
Speaker 2: per thousand by twenty twenty three, twenty four that was
Speaker 2: twenty two per thousand, so an elevenfold increase between two
Speaker 2: thousand and four and twenty twenty three. That's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2: We've got numbers going nuts when it comes to ADHD.
Speaker 2: And the big question, both in the US, the UK
Speaker 2: and here is why why is that happening? Why is
Speaker 2: this medical condition that was barely recognized, barely known before
Speaker 2: the turn of the century suddenly affecting so many people now.
Speaker 2: Part of the official explanation you get for that is, ah,
Speaker 2: it's because there's more publicity about it. You know, you
Speaker 2: and I talking about it today, we're talking about it.
Speaker 2: It will make people interested in it. They'll go and
Speaker 2: I'll see their doctor, et cetera. So there's more public
Speaker 2: awareness about the condition. Some people say, oh, it's the
Speaker 2: you know, it's the modern gluten free. You know, it's
Speaker 2: the trendy thing to have. It's gone from a disease
Speaker 2: that you didn't want to have because it was viewed
Speaker 2: as a pretty disease of the lowest socioeconomic classes, because
Speaker 2: it was generally considered to be caused by economic stress
Speaker 2: and you know, difficulties in families and so on and so.
Speaker 2: But now it's transitioned to a disease where you know,
Speaker 2: it's sort of the disease de jure. So that's one
Speaker 2: explanation that's banded about. Another one is that the diagnosis
Speaker 2: has gotten a lot looser and doctors are just diagnosing
Speaker 2: it more because of the change in the diagnostic criteria
Speaker 2: for it, which happened in twenty thirteen. All of those
Speaker 2: things maybe, but they're all kind of wooly explanations for
Speaker 2: something that has got some pretty hard numbers behind it.
Speaker 2: And I think anyone who realistickly thought about it and said, well, look,
Speaker 2: maybe at the edges, those things are causing those rises,
Speaker 2: but there must be something seriously underlying this. And the
Speaker 2: clue to the fact that there probably is is that
Speaker 2: what is often diagnosed with ADHD is anxiety, and anxiety
Speaker 2: diagnosis has also gone through the roof, so in that time,
Speaker 2: in the last probably decade, it's more than doubled in Australia.
Speaker 2: So we've got anxiety going up, we've got ADHD going
Speaker 2: absolutely off the charts. What could the possible explanation for
Speaker 2: that be? And I don't buy this business about diseased
Speaker 2: azure or doctors just being a little bit more free
Speaker 2: and easy with diagnosis. That's just not happening. It might
Speaker 2: be happening a little bit, but it's not really. And
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this in the past
Speaker 2: about the last time or when ADHD was first sort
Speaker 2: of recognized as being a condition that needed treatment. So
Speaker 2: remember I talked about the Bradford Home in New York
Speaker 2: where there were kids after the Second World War who
Speaker 2: were sent because they were suffering from what would today
Speaker 2: be described as ADHD. So they were hyperactive, they were
Speaker 2: difficult to deal with it. They described them as rambunctious.
Speaker 2: And these were kids coming from broken homes, from depression
Speaker 2: era homes with parents who had been sent off to
Speaker 2: war and so on, and who were having a hard
Speaker 2: hard time of it. And they happened across aqure. For
Speaker 2: the idea was in the home that they'd keep them there,
Speaker 2: isolated from all the nastiness. They'd feed them, they'd clothe them,
Speaker 2: they'd let them play in the woods, and it actually
Speaker 2: helped you keep them there for three months you would
Speaker 2: be able to turn them around. But they happened across
Speaker 2: something really really odd, which is that amphetamines that at
Speaker 2: the time were being used to force soldiers who are
Speaker 2: suffering from combat fatigue otherwise known as PTSD or what
Speaker 2: we would today describe as PTSD or anxiety, could be
Speaker 2: given amphetamines and they'd get them through it. Wouldn't cure anything,
Speaker 2: but they get them through it, they'd be able to
Speaker 2: fight again, et cetera. Trying these drugs out on kids
Speaker 2: who had symptoms of ADHD, and let's just remind ourselves
Speaker 2: what those symptoms are, which is really difficult to focus.
Speaker 2: So in boys that manifests as hyperactivity, if you like,
Speaker 2: you know, scatting around from one thing to the next,
Speaker 2: you know, wanting to move physically, difficulty with impulse control,
Speaker 2: et cetera. In girls that often manifests as day dreams.
Speaker 2: You know, a bit of a day dreamer, you know,
Speaker 2: whenever you can't get them to focus on anything, they're
Speaker 2: looking out the window. Their brain's not on the subject.
Speaker 2: So those are the symptoms. And what they found was
Speaker 2: if you gave amphetamines to those kids, bang brand new
Speaker 2: works out of the box. Just give them this drug
Speaker 2: and they can focus again. Their cognition goes back up,
Speaker 2: they can do their schoolwork, they can do everything, just
Speaker 2: back to normal again. And the trouble was it only
Speaker 2: lasted about four hours. So you give them the amphetamine
Speaker 2: for as long as the amphetamine stays in their system,
Speaker 2: they're all good, and then as soon as it wears off,
Speaker 2: they're back to the way they were. In fact, possibly
Speaker 2: even slightly worse if you started to do it for
Speaker 2: long enough. So at the time, the doctors said, this
Speaker 2: isn't a solution. It's a band aid. We'll use it
Speaker 2: in an emergency situation, but it isn't actually solving anything.
Speaker 2: They didn't know the mechanism. But we do know the mechanism.
Speaker 2: Now we now understand how the brain works and in
Speaker 2: this respect and why an amphetamine would make a difference.
Speaker 2: So what's happening in ADHD is that the set point
Speaker 2: that the brain has for how much dopamine it thinks
Speaker 2: it needs to focus is driven upwards by exposure to
Speaker 2: things which push up dopamine. So stress pushes up dopamine,
Speaker 2: and addictive behaviors or substances push up dopamine. So those
Speaker 2: kids were experiencing large amounts of stress, that was what
Speaker 2: was pushing up the dopamine set point. But if they'd
Speaker 2: been in an environment, whether or exposed to a lot
Speaker 2: of addictive substances, etc. That would have been pushing And
Speaker 2: it's just just an adaptation of our brain to help
Speaker 2: us deal with a high dopamine producing environment, either because
Speaker 2: it's extremely stressful like in combat, or it's surrounded by
Speaker 2: a lot of addictive things, so that set point keeps
Speaker 2: getting pushed up and up and up in those people. Now,
Speaker 2: when the set point goes up, you need more and
Speaker 2: more dopamine just to hit the baseline required for focus.
Speaker 2: Dopamine's job, by the way, is to make us focus.
Speaker 2: So in the reward system, it's to make us focus
Speaker 2: on rewards. So make us get out of bed and
Speaker 2: chase something, you know, preferably sex, because producing the next
Speaker 2: generation is the purpose of being alive at the end
Speaker 2: of the day. And so yeah, sorry for the philosophers
Speaker 2: among the audience, but you know, biochemically, that's where we're at.
Speaker 2: And so dopo mean's job is to get us focused
Speaker 2: on that goal and get us moving. And on the
Speaker 2: on the other side of the equation, when something dangerous
Speaker 2: is happening, dove mean's job is to get us focused
Speaker 2: on getting away from it. So the reward there is
Speaker 2: staying alive. So that's what happens, and that said point
Speaker 2: goes up in a high DOVA environment to make sure
Speaker 2: that we don't overreact to every little thing that's happening
Speaker 2: where there's lots of things happening. The problem is that
Speaker 2: when you do that to your brain, the amount of
Speaker 2: dopamine require to just keep you focused normally goes up,
Speaker 2: and you can't stay focused normally, and so you get
Speaker 2: a little bit scattery, and your brain's jumping around and
Speaker 2: you can't maintain the focus required to stay on one
Speaker 2: line of thought. Now, people with ADHD describe this feeling
Speaker 2: like it's like they just can't stay on the one
Speaker 2: line of thought. It's like when you're trying to think
Speaker 2: about something and then another thought. In truths, if you've
Speaker 2: ever i don't know, read a particularly invigorating book or
Speaker 2: you know that that has your board to tears and
Speaker 2: you can't You read a paragraph and then you realize
Speaker 2: you can't remember what the paragraph was about because you
Speaker 2: will thinking about something else while you were reading it.
Speaker 2: That kind of thing, but all the time with everything,
Speaker 2: so you just can't maintain a train of thought. And
Speaker 2: that is a symptom of not enough to overmean in
Speaker 2: your brain. To keep you focused on a single thought, so.
Speaker 1: Just hitting the pause but for one moment. So ADHD
Speaker 1: expressing in different people is almost a response to something
Speaker 1: happening in their external world. So a situation, a circumstance, environment,
Speaker 1: experience over time, and over time they for one of
Speaker 1: the better term get well, they become, you know, a
Speaker 1: person dealing with ADHD. So not genetic at all.
Speaker 2: Well, as with everything, there's a there's a genetic baseline component.
Speaker 2: We all have different propensities to everything. Some of us
Speaker 2: are more easily addicted than others, some of us more
Speaker 2: easily have difficulty with stress than others. That's the nature
Speaker 2: of evolution, which is that on purpose. You know, this
Speaker 2: is why we don't clone ourselves to reproduce. We want
Speaker 2: the mixture of the na of mixing two people together
Speaker 2: that enables us to be adaptable in any environment. And
Speaker 2: so the same thing's going on here with propensity, it's
Speaker 2: a normal curve. Most of us are in the middle.
Speaker 2: Most of us are around about the same. Some of
Speaker 2: us are much more in danger than others, and some
Speaker 2: of us are much less in danger than others.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, makes sense, So go ahead.
Speaker 2: So the issue is Okay, well, if that's what ADHD is,
Speaker 2: if we boil it right down to the biochemistry, what
Speaker 2: is ADHD. It's dopamine being too low for the level
Speaker 2: that the brain expects. In other words, the level that
Speaker 2: the brain expects being too high for the available dopamine.
Speaker 2: If that was right, then we'd express we'd expect anxiety
Speaker 2: to be a problem as well, because anxiety is caused
Speaker 2: by exactly the same setup. Biochemically, What happens when the
Speaker 2: dopamine set point is too high is that we overestimate risk.
Speaker 2: So we look at an environment, and you and I
Speaker 2: might be standing there looking at the environment at the
Speaker 2: exact same set of facts. You would see danger if
Speaker 2: your if your set point was too high, and I
Speaker 2: would say, there's absolutely nothing to worry about. So, and
Speaker 2: by the way, this is a thing between males and females,
Speaker 2: even if their set points are the same, is males
Speaker 2: have a lower baseline set point than females. So they'll
Speaker 2: look at the same fact scenario and a male will
Speaker 2: say nothing to worry about here, and the female will say, actually,
Speaker 2: that looks pretty damn risky to me. I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2: And that's why significantly I think it's three to four
Speaker 2: times as many teenage males are injured in accidental injuries
Speaker 2: and deaths than females because males are looking at the
Speaker 2: same situation as the females are saying there's nothing to
Speaker 2: worry about here, and the females are saying, yes, there is.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it anyway. Slight slide track there.
Speaker 1: I think we call that the doing dumb shit variable.
Speaker 2: That's right, lowered impulse control, which is yeah, is why
Speaker 2: teenage male deaths are much higher than teenage female that's anyway,
Speaker 2: slightly off the point. The point is anxiety and ADHD
Speaker 2: you would expect to travel together because of that biochemistry,
Speaker 2: and in fact they do. And this is what puts
Speaker 2: paid to the arguments about oh, this is just the
Speaker 2: disease of the day, or doctors are just going crazy
Speaker 2: and over diagnosing this thing. Is If that's true, then
Speaker 2: they're doing it to anxiety too, and I don't think
Speaker 2: anyone wants to be diagnosed with anxiety. So the problem
Speaker 2: then is there's something else going on. What could be
Speaker 2: pushing all of us collectively massively twenty twofold in the stats,
Speaker 2: all of us higher. What could be pushing our set
Speaker 2: point higher. And the answer is one we discussed before,
Speaker 2: which is we have distributed a means of pushing that
Speaker 2: set point higher to the entire population from twenty ten onwards.
Speaker 2: And that's the phones. The phones have apps embedded on
Speaker 2: them which are purposely designed to generate a dopamine hit.
Speaker 2: The reason they're designed to do that is because that's
Speaker 2: how they get the thing they sell, which is your attention.
Speaker 2: There are hundreds of thousands of free apps you can
Speaker 2: put on your phone. The winner is the one that
Speaker 2: keeps your attention best. The only way to keep your
Speaker 2: attention is by using the addictive mechanisms that they know
Speaker 2: how to manipulate, which is how to generate a dopamine
Speaker 2: hit in your brain. We've distributed that to every person
Speaker 2: and made it entirely accessible twenty four to seven. And
Speaker 2: then we're going to stand back and say we're surprised
Speaker 2: when the consequence of that is the entire higher population
Speaker 2: has their dopamine set point moved up to the level
Speaker 2: where we've all got ADHD.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yep. That's why when I watch a puppy video,
Speaker 1: which is about you know, every eight minutes fifty seven
Speaker 1: more come flooding into my fucking you know awareness. Yeah yeah, so,
Speaker 1: I mean that is the that's the commodity that they're
Speaker 1: vying for. Right is our is our brand, Our attention
Speaker 1: is our focus. And because we can't if we're not
Speaker 1: paying attention, we can't buy the shit they're selling.
Speaker 2: Well, they're metrics there there. When the product is free.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's free to make Facebook or Instagram
Speaker 2: or video games or pornography? None of that's free. It's
Speaker 2: all really expensive, but you can access it for free.
Speaker 2: You know, when the product's free, you're the product. So
Speaker 2: so true, and so you don't spend billions of dollars
Speaker 2: doing this and then hand give it out. They're giving
Speaker 2: it out because they know it contains an addiction mechanism
Speaker 2: and that will keep you engaged with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's like the drug dealers say, you know, the
Speaker 2: first one is free.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. And so I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess there's no I was going to say simple solution,
Speaker 1: Like the solution is simple, but it's not easy, especially
Speaker 1: when you know there's so much I mean.
Speaker 2: I reckon, Well, the reason it's not easy is because
Speaker 2: it's an addiction ye, I'm going to if if it
Speaker 2: were easy, that would be proof that everything I just
Speaker 2: said is rubbish, because then you're not addicted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it. Yeah, it's so easy to get up
Speaker 1: in the morning and without things, king, grab your phone
Speaker 1: and just see what what do I need to see?
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, and I guess the test for anyone
Speaker 2: who's wondering about this and sitting there and saying, oh,
Speaker 2: I could stop this anytime, you know, that's right, a
Speaker 2: lot of rubbish. I'm not addicted. Okay, well then do it,
Speaker 2: but don't just delete the app, which you know in
Speaker 2: the back of your mind you can just put back
Speaker 2: on tomorrow and you probably will delete your account, delete
Speaker 2: your account. Do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I won't get too many takers on that one, I bet.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's analogous to you know, you're not
Speaker 1: calling your dealer. You don't call him anymore. That's like
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to get him shot. So maybe
Speaker 1: that's a little bit of a stretch. Do you reckon
Speaker 1: you're addicted tip to your phone? Yeah? Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you ever experience the symptoms I described for eighty
Speaker 2: h which is the inability to maintain a persistent train
Speaker 2: of thought all of the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was diagnosed two years ago to ish.
Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah, Yeah, And will you given amphetamines
Speaker 2: to assist with it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? And I don't. Yeah. I struggle with them brand
Speaker 4: time on them.
Speaker 2: And what I guess I'm getting to here is there's
Speaker 2: another way, which I'm not denying. See, there's a tendency
Speaker 2: when you read the literature on ADHD, there's a tendency
Speaker 2: for people to sort of dismiss it and say this
Speaker 2: is made up. People are just going trying to get
Speaker 2: this diagnosis because they, you know, they think it's a
Speaker 2: good die trendy diagnosis to get or whatever, or doctors
Speaker 2: are doing it for the money. I don't think either
Speaker 2: of those things are true. I think it's genuinely real
Speaker 2: that we are in the middle of an epidemic of ADHD,
Speaker 2: and it is a very big problem because it's just
Speaker 2: the first symptom of a long line of things that
Speaker 2: result from that biochemistry, starting with anxiety and depression and ultimately,
Speaker 2: in some cases, psychosis and suicide. So these are not
Speaker 2: trivial things we're talking about. And when we start talking
Speaker 2: about large chunks of the population having that first sign
Speaker 2: the ADHD. We've got real things to worry about. And
Speaker 2: the other side of this coin, I guess is there
Speaker 2: are solutions to this. If we go back to what
Speaker 2: they were doing in that hospital before they discovered the drug.
Speaker 2: They were saying the solution here is spent three months
Speaker 2: mucking around in the fields. In other words, train yourself
Speaker 2: to focus on something other than what is causing that
Speaker 2: don't mean level to rise, and we can do that too.
Speaker 2: And as much as I hate recommending herbal Gerbil solutions
Speaker 2: to anything, meditation is exactly that.
Speaker 1: It is not, David Gillespie, that's AI, what did you
Speaker 1: do with gospo?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I hate even using the word right,
Speaker 2: but if you if you boil meditation down to its core,
Speaker 2: what it is is requiring you forcing yourself to focus
Speaker 2: on just one thought, and every time you stray from
Speaker 2: that thought, forcing yourself back to it. You are, by
Speaker 2: doing that, retraining your brain to focus. And you are
Speaker 2: also biochemically bringing down that set point. So doing something
Speaker 2: like Tiff said before going for a run that does
Speaker 2: the same thing. So there are things you can do
Speaker 2: to bring that set point down again. But part of
Speaker 2: this is you have to stop doing the things which
Speaker 2: were raising it in the first place.
Speaker 1: Tiff, do you remember when you got back from your
Speaker 1: trip to India?
Speaker 4: It was India, wasn't it you that's to ground for six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were the least ADHD sense I've known you,
Speaker 1: like you were the most. I mean, you know sometimes
Speaker 1: when you talk to people and they're like they've got
Speaker 1: like fake carm and fake zen, and it's like, nah,
Speaker 1: I'm buy it. This is you just fucking pretending you're
Speaker 1: the Dellilama.
Speaker 2: Because it's been a fortune on this stuff and you've
Speaker 2: got to say you've got something from it.
Speaker 1: I'd say, when people tell me they're spiritual, I'm like,
Speaker 1: come on, come on, But you were. You were genuinely
Speaker 1: very different for about definitely a week, maybe a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks. Do you remember that months? No? No, no,
Speaker 1: but really noticeably for me, I'm like, you had very
Speaker 1: different energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I went on Monday night to I haven't been for
Speaker 3: ages because I keep forgetting until seven thirty.
Speaker 4: It starts at seven.
Speaker 3: Buddhist meditation in Ellwood and I sit down they started,
Speaker 3: and I feel I can almost visualize that the change
Speaker 3: in my energy like everything, and I float out of
Speaker 3: there and and it makes me realize almost the visceral,
Speaker 3: toxic load of how I function, like the doing and
Speaker 3: the thinking and the it's like that coupled with the
Speaker 3: Buddhist teachings is far out.
Speaker 4: It's powerful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well keep going. That is my suggestion.
Speaker 2: There's other things you can do too, though, I mean
Speaker 2: if you, I mean it depends what skills you've got available.
Speaker 2: But one of the most powerful things people can do
Speaker 2: if they have this guide. I can't do this because
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do it, but if you
Speaker 2: can play a musical instrument, well, doing that for an
Speaker 2: hour is very powerful because the focus required to do
Speaker 2: it is extraordinary. And you can you watch a kid
Speaker 2: with ADHD come out of a music lesson and they'll
Speaker 2: feel like you're describing native where where there They went
Speaker 2: in kicking and screaming, this is the last thing in
Speaker 2: the world I want to do. I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't want to go anywhere near. This is horrible. And
Speaker 2: then they'll come out on cloud nine like you're describing,
Speaker 2: because they're getting that that pure focus, getting up to
Speaker 2: that that set point and feeling great, well.
Speaker 1: Just becoming a concert pianist.
Speaker 2: So there go just playing the piano. Tiff, does that
Speaker 2: have that effect?
Speaker 3: It does, But you know what, lately it has felt
Speaker 3: it's very taxing as well when you're learning something like
Speaker 3: that brand new and just with my endg like shitty
Speaker 3: sleep lately and energy. I'll sit down and what I've
Speaker 3: noticed like clenching my jaw when I'm doing it all,
Speaker 3: like feeling really tense because I'm just so I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's it's funny, it's been funny. That's just been a
Speaker 3: recent once my sleep took a big dive again over.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing about sleep is it's often an early
Speaker 2: warning sign. So there's a really interesting study I talked
Speaker 2: about in one of my books where sleep was able
Speaker 2: to predict a depression and anxiety diagnosis two years ahead
Speaker 2: of other symptoms. So sleep problems was a very very
Speaker 2: strong predictor of a depression and anxiety diagnosis up to
Speaker 2: two years ahead of where the symptoms would be, such
Speaker 2: that a diagnosis would be obvious or correlation. Well, there's
Speaker 2: a there's a viable biochical explanation. Yeah, Well, the reason
Speaker 2: that the brain tries to cope with the lack of
Speaker 2: dopamine by keeping you awake because to stay awake you
Speaker 2: have to produce dopamine internally, so it's actually the brain
Speaker 2: trying to get a hit from the dopamine being produced
Speaker 2: by keeping you awake. So that's that's the biochemistry behind
Speaker 2: why sleep might be associated with anxiety depression and obviously
Speaker 2: with ADHD too, because it's on the same it's on
Speaker 2: the same pathway. So yeah, there is there are studies
Speaker 2: that show that this in fact occurs, and there's a
Speaker 2: good biochemical explanation as to why it would occur.
Speaker 1: Well, that's some good news for you, Tip, You've got
Speaker 1: that to look forward to.
Speaker 4: Put that on my calendar. Thanks David.
Speaker 1: Twenty seven depression midyear. Awesome, mate, thanks for just prophesying
Speaker 1: over TIFF's incoming mental health issues.
Speaker 2: She'll sort it out, she'll learn to play the piano
Speaker 2: and that'll be the end of that.
Speaker 1: Keep your crystal ball to yourself, will you just fucking around?
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye, affair, but as always, mate, fascinating, Thank
Speaker 1: You're worried. To see you later.