1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's it's Tiff, it's doctor Gillespie, 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: It's it's me, Fatty Harps. It's the you project. We'll 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: start with the pugilist who's going through some emotional and 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: hormonal and psychological and sociological issues. Nothing big, just just 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: ticking all the fucking catastrophe boxes. It's a day to 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: day proposition and I'm scared to ask, but what's the 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: what's the update? 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: You know? 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 3: I opened my eyes in the morning and I just 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 3: wonder who I'm going to be? 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 4: Who am I going to be today? 12 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well you look, I mean, you look happy and 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: how fucking big? I just looked at your face. How 14 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: big are those glasses? 15 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? 16 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 4: But fucking cool? 17 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: Are they very studious? 18 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 4: Yeah? How smart do I look? 19 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: Yes? 20 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 3: Very? 21 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: Oh twice a smart? Yeah? 22 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 4: Thank you twice? 23 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: Is big? 24 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 4: Thank you? 25 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: You should You should get goalsspar at some stage to 26 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: do a deep dive on Perry menopause so he can 27 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: tell you what to do for the next few years. 28 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 4: Can you fix me? You fix me? 29 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: Ship is anywhere, dear beause, no perimenopause. 30 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: She's just like she's walking down the corridor to the 31 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: door that says menopause, and I'm not throwing her under 32 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: the bus. This has been spoken about ad nauseum on 33 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: the podcast everyone, so I don't think, oh my god, 34 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: that's divulging her private matters. No, she spoke about it 35 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: at length. How are you feeling today? Do you still 36 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: want to punch someone or are you better? 37 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: Well? 38 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 3: It was another night of crap sleep, so and that 39 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: doesn't help me. Crap sleep and very tired and no energy. 40 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 3: But I went for a really light, short three. 41 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 4: K jog before and I feel good after that. 42 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: But it's just trying to balance that with not blowing 43 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 3: myself out completely. 44 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: Well, if you want to increase your dough for me. 45 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: And there's a new product out called Scrollamine, which you 46 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: were calling scroll of Mine, which is ridiculous, and David 47 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: and I corrected you. 48 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 4: I'll make I've got it on film. I'll make a 49 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 4: thing and put it on your Instagram. 50 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: That's no, I hate you. You meant to make me 51 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: look good. 52 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: Even Meliss is the boss and I'll go straight to 53 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 3: the top with this one. 54 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: Third on the ladder, Doctor Gillespie, welcome to the show. 55 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: We haven't even spoken to you. How are you? 56 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? Good? No, just you know for new listeners. I'm 57 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: not a doctor, despite what Craig says, but we will 58 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: talk about medical stuff today despite not being a doctor. 59 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: Well, of course we will. How are your hormones going? 60 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: Are you? 61 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: Are you any menopause? 62 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 3: Man? 63 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: You know the thing called called andro pause? Have you 64 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: heard it? 65 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: Is there? Really? 66 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: No? 67 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 2: I haven't heard of that and probably haven't experienced. I 68 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 2: don't know, feel normal the same way as I always do. 69 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you do live a very healthy lifestyle. What's 70 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: news on planet you? How's how's everything going? You still 71 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: do you need me to come up with my money? 72 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: Will be't help you? Just transfer some of it from 73 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: room to room? 74 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: You pay me? 75 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: Can I can? I? No, I can't say it. I 76 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: can't say it. I was going to say something about 77 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: the U Project conference, but I can't say it. But 78 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: maybe sooner I'll be able to say what I'm going 79 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: to say. Everyone is there's a reasonable chance there's a 80 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: reasonable chance that not doctor but David Gillespie will be 81 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: at the conference, if not this year, next year. But 82 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: we're trying to get it. We're just my guys are 83 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: talking to his guys. 84 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the. 85 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: People are talking, Yes, Tiff, is he going to just 86 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: stand behind a black screen so no one can see 87 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: his face. 88 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 4: We know what it looks like. 89 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: Then no, I will be behind a black screen. 90 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, well tell everyone why you said that, Tiff. 91 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: Because we've never, ever, ever ever seen his face. This 92 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: could be some AI David Gillespie never true camera on. 93 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: It could be it probably is. 94 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: What's happened. 95 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: Imagine the lawsuit when the real David Gillespie gets hold 96 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: of some. 97 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: Of these episodes. Well what Tiff is saying everyone, which 98 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: you're probably gleamed, but just if you haven't, I'll be clear. 99 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: David leaves his camera off and he's never, ever, in 100 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: any episode, for one minute, ever had it on. So 101 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: Tiff and I have ours on and we can see 102 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: each other's very handsome faces, and but we look at 103 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: a black square, to be honest, more accurate, a rectangle 104 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: with his name in it? Is that? Why is that? 105 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: Is that? Because you don't think we're going to be 106 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: able to cope with your face? What is that about? 107 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? The beauty, it will just blow your way. No, 108 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: I just I can relax more when I'm not on Telly. 109 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: I hate seeing myself on Telly, even even this Telly 110 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: and I need to be relaxed to do this well, 111 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: and so I prefer to do it, and you let 112 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: me do it. 113 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,559 Speaker 1: So I do well. You do a very good job. 114 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: But I can hear water splashing, so I'm operating the 115 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: assumption that you're in the bath. 116 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: So I really I think the water must be splashing 117 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: at TIFFs place. 118 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, I can see her. There's no water involved. 119 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: So you wrote an article recently about the fact that 120 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: which I have not read, but I only heard about 121 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: it just before we went live. My bad didn't do 122 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: any research because I thought you'd rock up as you 123 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: often just do and go nah, let's talk about this 124 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: or that. But completely my fault. But the relationship between 125 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: using our phone and ADHD that it might be correlated. 126 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: Well, the title of the article is is your phone 127 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: giving you ADHD? And for the ADHD listeners who just 128 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,799 Speaker 2: want to get to the point, the answer is yes, 129 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: thanks and see you later. We'll catch you next week. 130 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. The answer is yes, yeah, that's 131 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: been David Gillespie. You see every second Thursday, all right. 132 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 2: So yeah, but let's dig in for the rest of 133 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: your listeners and get to the bottom of it. This 134 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: is prompted. The reason I wrote this article is there 135 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: was an article last week in all the papers about 136 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: the new South Wales government announcing that they were going 137 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 2: to allow GPS to do ADHD diagnosis, which until now 138 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: and in every other state is still restricted to specials 139 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: I think psychiatrists too. So you have to you have 140 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 2: to lay down some some serious green to get an 141 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: ADHD diagnosis. And what they're saying is, well, that's backing 142 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: up the system because the number of diagnoses is growing 143 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: like crazy, and you know there's many, many more people 144 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: who need the diagnosis than who are capable of, you know, 145 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: being diagnosed by the existing health workforce. So we're going 146 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: to our GPS do it. I guess the underlying question 147 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: there is why do we suddenly have so many people 148 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: needing diagnosis? And it's a question that's been raised in 149 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: a lot of places in the UK and the US, 150 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: and that's because when you look at the numbers they're 151 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: pretty horrifying. If you look in the UK, recorded ADHD 152 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: diagnosis shot up twentyfold, so not just twice, twenty times 153 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: between two thousand and twenty eighteen. 154 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:40,679 Speaker 1: So thousand percent. 155 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's not nothing. That's that's a lot, and 156 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: it's climbing an average of eighteen percent every year, so 157 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: that's a very very significant. The US are similar similar 158 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 2: stats there there are I think diagnosis went up. No, 159 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: I didn't put their numbers in there, but they're similar numbers, 160 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: same sort of numbers from memory. And if we look 161 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: at medications, which is people might say, well, what does 162 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: an ADHD diagnosis get you, Well, it gets you access 163 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: to medication, which we've talked about before, which is essentially 164 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: unfetter means. So an ADHD diagnosis gets you access to 165 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 2: stimulant medication, and we're going to talk a little bit 166 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 2: about why and what the mechanism is there and why 167 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: that works. But if we look at medication sales in Australia, 168 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: which is the most reliable source of statistics when you 169 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: come to when it comes to medicine in Australia, because 170 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 2: you can't fudge medication sales and they're published public data. 171 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: So there were two per thousand people in two thousand 172 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 2: and four, two thousand and five receiving medication for ADHD, 173 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: So two thousand and four, two thousand and five, two 174 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: per thousand by twenty twenty three, twenty four that was 175 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: twenty two per thousand, so an elevenfold increase between two 176 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: thousand and four and twenty twenty three. That's pretty crazy. 177 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 2: We've got numbers going nuts when it comes to ADHD. 178 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: And the big question, both in the US, the UK 179 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: and here is why why is that happening? Why is 180 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: this medical condition that was barely recognized, barely known before 181 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: the turn of the century suddenly affecting so many people now. 182 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: Part of the official explanation you get for that is, ah, 183 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 2: it's because there's more publicity about it. You know, you 184 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 2: and I talking about it today, we're talking about it. 185 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: It will make people interested in it. They'll go and 186 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 2: I'll see their doctor, et cetera. So there's more public 187 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: awareness about the condition. Some people say, oh, it's the 188 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: you know, it's the modern gluten free. You know, it's 189 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: the trendy thing to have. It's gone from a disease 190 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: that you didn't want to have because it was viewed 191 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: as a pretty disease of the lowest socioeconomic classes, because 192 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: it was generally considered to be caused by economic stress 193 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: and you know, difficulties in families and so on and so. 194 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: But now it's transitioned to a disease where you know, 195 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: it's sort of the disease de jure. So that's one 196 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: explanation that's banded about. Another one is that the diagnosis 197 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 2: has gotten a lot looser and doctors are just diagnosing 198 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: it more because of the change in the diagnostic criteria 199 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: for it, which happened in twenty thirteen. All of those 200 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: things maybe, but they're all kind of wooly explanations for 201 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 2: something that has got some pretty hard numbers behind it. 202 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: And I think anyone who realistickly thought about it and said, well, look, 203 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 2: maybe at the edges, those things are causing those rises, 204 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: but there must be something seriously underlying this. And the 205 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: clue to the fact that there probably is is that 206 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 2: what is often diagnosed with ADHD is anxiety, and anxiety 207 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 2: diagnosis has also gone through the roof, so in that time, 208 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: in the last probably decade, it's more than doubled in Australia. 209 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: So we've got anxiety going up, we've got ADHD going 210 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: absolutely off the charts. What could the possible explanation for 211 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: that be? And I don't buy this business about diseased 212 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: azure or doctors just being a little bit more free 213 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: and easy with diagnosis. That's just not happening. It might 214 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: be happening a little bit, but it's not really. And 215 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this in the past 216 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: about the last time or when ADHD was first sort 217 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: of recognized as being a condition that needed treatment. So 218 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: remember I talked about the Bradford Home in New York 219 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 2: where there were kids after the Second World War who 220 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 2: were sent because they were suffering from what would today 221 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: be described as ADHD. So they were hyperactive, they were 222 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: difficult to deal with it. They described them as rambunctious. 223 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 2: And these were kids coming from broken homes, from depression 224 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: era homes with parents who had been sent off to 225 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: war and so on, and who were having a hard 226 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 2: hard time of it. And they happened across aqure. For 227 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 2: the idea was in the home that they'd keep them there, 228 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: isolated from all the nastiness. They'd feed them, they'd clothe them, 229 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: they'd let them play in the woods, and it actually 230 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: helped you keep them there for three months you would 231 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: be able to turn them around. But they happened across 232 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: something really really odd, which is that amphetamines that at 233 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: the time were being used to force soldiers who are 234 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: suffering from combat fatigue otherwise known as PTSD or what 235 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: we would today describe as PTSD or anxiety, could be 236 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: given amphetamines and they'd get them through it. Wouldn't cure anything, 237 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: but they get them through it, they'd be able to 238 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: fight again, et cetera. Trying these drugs out on kids 239 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: who had symptoms of ADHD, and let's just remind ourselves 240 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: what those symptoms are, which is really difficult to focus. 241 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: So in boys that manifests as hyperactivity, if you like, 242 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 2: you know, scatting around from one thing to the next, 243 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: you know, wanting to move physically, difficulty with impulse control, 244 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: et cetera. In girls that often manifests as day dreams. 245 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 2: You know, a bit of a day dreamer, you know, 246 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: whenever you can't get them to focus on anything, they're 247 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 2: looking out the window. Their brain's not on the subject. 248 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: So those are the symptoms. And what they found was 249 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: if you gave amphetamines to those kids, bang brand new 250 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: works out of the box. Just give them this drug 251 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: and they can focus again. Their cognition goes back up, 252 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: they can do their schoolwork, they can do everything, just 253 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: back to normal again. And the trouble was it only 254 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: lasted about four hours. So you give them the amphetamine 255 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: for as long as the amphetamine stays in their system, 256 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: they're all good, and then as soon as it wears off, 257 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: they're back to the way they were. In fact, possibly 258 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: even slightly worse if you started to do it for 259 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: long enough. So at the time, the doctors said, this 260 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: isn't a solution. It's a band aid. We'll use it 261 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: in an emergency situation, but it isn't actually solving anything. 262 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: They didn't know the mechanism. But we do know the mechanism. 263 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 2: Now we now understand how the brain works and in 264 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: this respect and why an amphetamine would make a difference. 265 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: So what's happening in ADHD is that the set point 266 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: that the brain has for how much dopamine it thinks 267 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: it needs to focus is driven upwards by exposure to 268 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: things which push up dopamine. So stress pushes up dopamine, 269 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: and addictive behaviors or substances push up dopamine. So those 270 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: kids were experiencing large amounts of stress, that was what 271 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: was pushing up the dopamine set point. But if they'd 272 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: been in an environment, whether or exposed to a lot 273 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: of addictive substances, etc. That would have been pushing And 274 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: it's just just an adaptation of our brain to help 275 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: us deal with a high dopamine producing environment, either because 276 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: it's extremely stressful like in combat, or it's surrounded by 277 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: a lot of addictive things, so that set point keeps 278 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: getting pushed up and up and up in those people. Now, 279 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 2: when the set point goes up, you need more and 280 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: more dopamine just to hit the baseline required for focus. 281 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: Dopamine's job, by the way, is to make us focus. 282 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 2: So in the reward system, it's to make us focus 283 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: on rewards. So make us get out of bed and 284 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: chase something, you know, preferably sex, because producing the next 285 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: generation is the purpose of being alive at the end 286 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: of the day. And so yeah, sorry for the philosophers 287 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: among the audience, but you know, biochemically, that's where we're at. 288 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: And so dopo mean's job is to get us focused 289 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 2: on that goal and get us moving. And on the 290 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: on the other side of the equation, when something dangerous 291 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: is happening, dove mean's job is to get us focused 292 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: on getting away from it. So the reward there is 293 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: staying alive. So that's what happens, and that said point 294 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: goes up in a high DOVA environment to make sure 295 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 2: that we don't overreact to every little thing that's happening 296 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: where there's lots of things happening. The problem is that 297 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 2: when you do that to your brain, the amount of 298 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: dopamine require to just keep you focused normally goes up, 299 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: and you can't stay focused normally, and so you get 300 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 2: a little bit scattery, and your brain's jumping around and 301 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 2: you can't maintain the focus required to stay on one 302 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 2: line of thought. Now, people with ADHD describe this feeling 303 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: like it's like they just can't stay on the one 304 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: line of thought. It's like when you're trying to think 305 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: about something and then another thought. In truths, if you've 306 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 2: ever i don't know, read a particularly invigorating book or 307 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: you know that that has your board to tears and 308 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: you can't You read a paragraph and then you realize 309 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 2: you can't remember what the paragraph was about because you 310 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: will thinking about something else while you were reading it. 311 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 2: That kind of thing, but all the time with everything, 312 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: so you just can't maintain a train of thought. And 313 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: that is a symptom of not enough to overmean in 314 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: your brain. To keep you focused on a single thought, so. 315 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: Just hitting the pause but for one moment. So ADHD 316 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: expressing in different people is almost a response to something 317 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: happening in their external world. So a situation, a circumstance, environment, 318 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: experience over time, and over time they for one of 319 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: the better term get well, they become, you know, a 320 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: person dealing with ADHD. So not genetic at all. 321 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: Well, as with everything, there's a there's a genetic baseline component. 322 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: We all have different propensities to everything. Some of us 323 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: are more easily addicted than others, some of us more 324 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: easily have difficulty with stress than others. That's the nature 325 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: of evolution, which is that on purpose. You know, this 326 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: is why we don't clone ourselves to reproduce. We want 327 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 2: the mixture of the na of mixing two people together 328 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 2: that enables us to be adaptable in any environment. And 329 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: so the same thing's going on here with propensity, it's 330 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: a normal curve. Most of us are in the middle. 331 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 2: Most of us are around about the same. Some of 332 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 2: us are much more in danger than others, and some 333 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: of us are much less in danger than others. 334 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, makes sense, So go ahead. 335 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 2: So the issue is Okay, well, if that's what ADHD is, 336 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 2: if we boil it right down to the biochemistry, what 337 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 2: is ADHD. It's dopamine being too low for the level 338 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: that the brain expects. In other words, the level that 339 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: the brain expects being too high for the available dopamine. 340 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 2: If that was right, then we'd express we'd expect anxiety 341 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: to be a problem as well, because anxiety is caused 342 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 2: by exactly the same setup. Biochemically, What happens when the 343 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: dopamine set point is too high is that we overestimate risk. 344 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: So we look at an environment, and you and I 345 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 2: might be standing there looking at the environment at the 346 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,239 Speaker 2: exact same set of facts. You would see danger if 347 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 2: your if your set point was too high, and I 348 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: would say, there's absolutely nothing to worry about. So, and 349 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 2: by the way, this is a thing between males and females, 350 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: even if their set points are the same, is males 351 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: have a lower baseline set point than females. So they'll 352 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: look at the same fact scenario and a male will 353 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: say nothing to worry about here, and the female will say, actually, 354 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 2: that looks pretty damn risky to me. I'm not doing it. 355 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: And that's why significantly I think it's three to four 356 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: times as many teenage males are injured in accidental injuries 357 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: and deaths than females because males are looking at the 358 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: same situation as the females are saying there's nothing to 359 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: worry about here, and the females are saying, yes, there is. 360 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: I'm not doing it anyway. Slight slide track there. 361 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: I think we call that the doing dumb shit variable. 362 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 2: That's right, lowered impulse control, which is yeah, is why 363 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: teenage male deaths are much higher than teenage female that's anyway, 364 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 2: slightly off the point. The point is anxiety and ADHD 365 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: you would expect to travel together because of that biochemistry, 366 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: and in fact they do. And this is what puts 367 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 2: paid to the arguments about oh, this is just the 368 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: disease of the day, or doctors are just going crazy 369 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 2: and over diagnosing this thing. Is If that's true, then 370 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: they're doing it to anxiety too, and I don't think 371 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: anyone wants to be diagnosed with anxiety. So the problem 372 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: then is there's something else going on. What could be 373 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 2: pushing all of us collectively massively twenty twofold in the stats, 374 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 2: all of us higher. What could be pushing our set 375 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: point higher. And the answer is one we discussed before, 376 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: which is we have distributed a means of pushing that 377 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: set point higher to the entire population from twenty ten onwards. 378 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: And that's the phones. The phones have apps embedded on 379 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 2: them which are purposely designed to generate a dopamine hit. 380 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 2: The reason they're designed to do that is because that's 381 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 2: how they get the thing they sell, which is your attention. 382 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 2: There are hundreds of thousands of free apps you can 383 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 2: put on your phone. The winner is the one that 384 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: keeps your attention best. The only way to keep your 385 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 2: attention is by using the addictive mechanisms that they know 386 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: how to manipulate, which is how to generate a dopamine 387 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: hit in your brain. We've distributed that to every person 388 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: and made it entirely accessible twenty four to seven. And 389 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: then we're going to stand back and say we're surprised 390 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 2: when the consequence of that is the entire higher population 391 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: has their dopamine set point moved up to the level 392 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: where we've all got ADHD. 393 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yep. That's why when I watch a puppy video, 394 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: which is about you know, every eight minutes fifty seven 395 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: more come flooding into my fucking you know awareness. Yeah yeah, so, 396 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: I mean that is the that's the commodity that they're 397 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: vying for. Right is our is our brand, Our attention 398 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: is our focus. And because we can't if we're not 399 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: paying attention, we can't buy the shit they're selling. 400 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 2: Well, they're metrics there there. When the product is free. 401 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 2: Do you think it's free to make Facebook or Instagram 402 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: or video games or pornography? None of that's free. It's 403 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 2: all really expensive, but you can access it for free. 404 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 2: You know, when the product's free, you're the product. So 405 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 2: so true, and so you don't spend billions of dollars 406 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 2: doing this and then hand give it out. They're giving 407 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: it out because they know it contains an addiction mechanism 408 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: and that will keep you engaged with it. 409 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah. 410 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: So it's like the drug dealers say, you know, the 411 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 2: first one is free. 412 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. And so I mean, 413 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: I guess there's no I was going to say simple solution, 414 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: Like the solution is simple, but it's not easy, especially 415 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: when you know there's so much I mean. 416 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: I reckon, Well, the reason it's not easy is because 417 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: it's an addiction ye, I'm going to if if it 418 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 2: were easy, that would be proof that everything I just 419 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: said is rubbish, because then you're not addicted. 420 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it. Yeah, it's so easy to get up 421 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: in the morning and without things, king, grab your phone 422 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: and just see what what do I need to see? 423 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, and I guess the test for anyone 424 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: who's wondering about this and sitting there and saying, oh, 425 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 2: I could stop this anytime, you know, that's right, a 426 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 2: lot of rubbish. I'm not addicted. Okay, well then do it, 427 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 2: but don't just delete the app, which you know in 428 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 2: the back of your mind you can just put back 429 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: on tomorrow and you probably will delete your account, delete 430 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 2: your account. Do that. 431 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. 432 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: I won't get too many takers on that one, I bet. 433 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's analogous to you know, you're not 434 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: calling your dealer. You don't call him anymore. That's like 435 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: and now I'm going to get him shot. So maybe 436 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: that's a little bit of a stretch. Do you reckon 437 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: you're addicted tip to your phone? Yeah? Yes, yeah. 438 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: Do you ever experience the symptoms I described for eighty 439 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: h which is the inability to maintain a persistent train 440 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 2: of thought all of the time. 441 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was diagnosed two years ago to ish. 442 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah, Yeah, And will you given amphetamines 443 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 2: to assist with it? 444 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 4: Yeah? And I don't. Yeah. I struggle with them brand 445 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 4: time on them. 446 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: And what I guess I'm getting to here is there's 447 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 2: another way, which I'm not denying. See, there's a tendency 448 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 2: when you read the literature on ADHD, there's a tendency 449 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 2: for people to sort of dismiss it and say this 450 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 2: is made up. People are just going trying to get 451 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: this diagnosis because they, you know, they think it's a 452 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: good die trendy diagnosis to get or whatever, or doctors 453 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 2: are doing it for the money. I don't think either 454 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 2: of those things are true. I think it's genuinely real 455 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 2: that we are in the middle of an epidemic of ADHD, 456 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 2: and it is a very big problem because it's just 457 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 2: the first symptom of a long line of things that 458 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 2: result from that biochemistry, starting with anxiety and depression and ultimately, 459 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: in some cases, psychosis and suicide. So these are not 460 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 2: trivial things we're talking about. And when we start talking 461 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 2: about large chunks of the population having that first sign 462 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 2: the ADHD. We've got real things to worry about. And 463 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: the other side of this coin, I guess is there 464 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 2: are solutions to this. If we go back to what 465 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 2: they were doing in that hospital before they discovered the drug. 466 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 2: They were saying the solution here is spent three months 467 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 2: mucking around in the fields. In other words, train yourself 468 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 2: to focus on something other than what is causing that 469 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 2: don't mean level to rise, and we can do that too. 470 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: And as much as I hate recommending herbal Gerbil solutions 471 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 2: to anything, meditation is exactly that. 472 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: It is not, David Gillespie, that's AI, what did you 473 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: do with gospo? 474 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I hate even using the word right, 475 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: but if you if you boil meditation down to its core, 476 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 2: what it is is requiring you forcing yourself to focus 477 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: on just one thought, and every time you stray from 478 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: that thought, forcing yourself back to it. You are, by 479 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 2: doing that, retraining your brain to focus. And you are 480 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,719 Speaker 2: also biochemically bringing down that set point. So doing something 481 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 2: like Tiff said before going for a run that does 482 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 2: the same thing. So there are things you can do 483 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: to bring that set point down again. But part of 484 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: this is you have to stop doing the things which 485 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 2: were raising it in the first place. 486 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,719 Speaker 1: Tiff, do you remember when you got back from your 487 00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 1: trip to India? 488 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 4: It was India, wasn't it you that's to ground for six. 489 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you were the least ADHD sense I've known you, 490 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: like you were the most. I mean, you know sometimes 491 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: when you talk to people and they're like they've got 492 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: like fake carm and fake zen, and it's like, nah, 493 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm buy it. This is you just fucking pretending you're 494 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: the Dellilama. 495 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: Because it's been a fortune on this stuff and you've 496 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: got to say you've got something from it. 497 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: I'd say, when people tell me they're spiritual, I'm like, 498 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: come on, come on, But you were. You were genuinely 499 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: very different for about definitely a week, maybe a couple 500 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: of weeks. Do you remember that months? No? No, no, 501 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: but really noticeably for me, I'm like, you had very 502 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: different energy. 503 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 504 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 505 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 3: I went on Monday night to I haven't been for 506 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 3: ages because I keep forgetting until seven thirty. 507 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 4: It starts at seven. 508 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: Buddhist meditation in Ellwood and I sit down they started, 509 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 3: and I feel I can almost visualize that the change 510 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 3: in my energy like everything, and I float out of 511 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 3: there and and it makes me realize almost the visceral, 512 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 3: toxic load of how I function, like the doing and 513 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 3: the thinking and the it's like that coupled with the 514 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 3: Buddhist teachings is far out. 515 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 4: It's powerful. 516 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, well keep going. That is my suggestion. 517 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 2: There's other things you can do too, though, I mean 518 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: if you, I mean it depends what skills you've got available. 519 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: But one of the most powerful things people can do 520 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: if they have this guide. I can't do this because 521 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: I don't know how to do it, but if you 522 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 2: can play a musical instrument, well, doing that for an 523 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: hour is very powerful because the focus required to do 524 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 2: it is extraordinary. And you can you watch a kid 525 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 2: with ADHD come out of a music lesson and they'll 526 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 2: feel like you're describing native where where there They went 527 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: in kicking and screaming, this is the last thing in 528 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: the world I want to do. I don't know, I 529 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: don't want to go anywhere near. This is horrible. And 530 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: then they'll come out on cloud nine like you're describing, 531 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: because they're getting that that pure focus, getting up to 532 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 2: that that set point and feeling great, well. 533 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: Just becoming a concert pianist. 534 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 2: So there go just playing the piano. Tiff, does that 535 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: have that effect? 536 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 3: It does, But you know what, lately it has felt 537 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 3: it's very taxing as well when you're learning something like 538 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 3: that brand new and just with my endg like shitty 539 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 3: sleep lately and energy. I'll sit down and what I've 540 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 3: noticed like clenching my jaw when I'm doing it all, 541 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 3: like feeling really tense because I'm just so I don't know, 542 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 3: it's it's funny, it's been funny. That's just been a 543 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 3: recent once my sleep took a big dive again over. 544 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: The interesting thing about sleep is it's often an early 545 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 2: warning sign. So there's a really interesting study I talked 546 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 2: about in one of my books where sleep was able 547 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: to predict a depression and anxiety diagnosis two years ahead 548 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 2: of other symptoms. So sleep problems was a very very 549 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 2: strong predictor of a depression and anxiety diagnosis up to 550 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: two years ahead of where the symptoms would be, such 551 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 2: that a diagnosis would be obvious or correlation. Well, there's 552 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 2: a there's a viable biochical explanation. Yeah, Well, the reason 553 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 2: that the brain tries to cope with the lack of 554 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 2: dopamine by keeping you awake because to stay awake you 555 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: have to produce dopamine internally, so it's actually the brain 556 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 2: trying to get a hit from the dopamine being produced 557 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 2: by keeping you awake. So that's that's the biochemistry behind 558 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: why sleep might be associated with anxiety depression and obviously 559 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 2: with ADHD too, because it's on the same it's on 560 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: the same pathway. So yeah, there is there are studies 561 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: that show that this in fact occurs, and there's a 562 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 2: good biochemical explanation as to why it would occur. 563 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: Well, that's some good news for you, Tip, You've got 564 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: that to look forward to. 565 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 4: Put that on my calendar. Thanks David. 566 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: Twenty seven depression midyear. Awesome, mate, thanks for just prophesying 567 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: over TIFF's incoming mental health issues. 568 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 2: She'll sort it out, she'll learn to play the piano 569 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: and that'll be the end of that. 570 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: Keep your crystal ball to yourself, will you just fucking around? 571 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye, affair, but as always, mate, fascinating, Thank 572 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: You're worried. To see you later.