WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 18 May

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<v Speaker 1>From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>good evening, Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm James Macpherson filling in for Paul Murray. Let's take

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<v Speaker 2>a look at what's making news tonight. Coming up on

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<v Speaker 2>the program, Hundreds of thousands have gathered at Saint Peter's

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<v Speaker 2>Square to watch the inauguration of Pope Leo the fourteenth,

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<v Speaker 2>including Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi, who met with the Pope

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<v Speaker 2>just moments ago. But why was he really there to

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<v Speaker 2>Former Liberal Premier Jeff Kennett has urged the public and

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<v Speaker 2>his party to help John Pursuto cover his legal costs

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<v Speaker 2>after that loss in the defamation case bought by More Redeeming.

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<v Speaker 2>But does John Pursuito deserve help? Plus Trump and Putin

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<v Speaker 2>set for a phone call tomorrow to discuss a potential

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<v Speaker 2>cease fire proposal. Imagine if Trump gets a breakthrough, you

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<v Speaker 2>reckon the world will honor him for it. All of

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<v Speaker 2>that and more coming up in a moment. But first,

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<v Speaker 2>while Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi is at the Vatican for

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<v Speaker 2>Pope Leo, those inaugural mass say a prayer for the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party having been crucified at the last federal election.

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<v Speaker 2>They're now in the process of trying to work out what,

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<v Speaker 2>if anything, they stand for. His senior Liberal senator and

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<v Speaker 2>Rustin on the ABC this morning.

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<v Speaker 3>I think right now the most important thing for us

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<v Speaker 3>to do as a Liberal Party and as a coalition

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<v Speaker 3>for that matter, is to sit down and analyze every

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<v Speaker 3>single contributing factor to our electoral loss. So it serves

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<v Speaker 3>no purpose to say we're going to count this in

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<v Speaker 3>today or that not in today. I think Susan's quite

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<v Speaker 3>right and saying, you know, nothing's been abandoned, nothing's been adopted.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's actually look at everything.

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<v Speaker 2>So if nothing is abandoned, then if nothing is adopted,

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<v Speaker 2>then right now the Liberal Party's position on everything would

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<v Speaker 2>seem to be nothing. Do they still believe in that

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<v Speaker 2>zero no idea? What about nuclear?

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<v Speaker 1>Not sure?

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<v Speaker 2>Do they still want to slash immigration? Well, it's all

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<v Speaker 2>Greek to me.

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<v Speaker 4>So if they need zero commitment from the Morrison era

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<v Speaker 4>is now open for review. I'm just wondering what else

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<v Speaker 4>is Around the same time the Morrison government signed Australia

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<v Speaker 4>up to Orcus, is that under review.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Susan made it very very clear that we are

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<v Speaker 3>going back to basics on everything. But I'm sure, luting David,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure, David, there will be many many policy positions

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<v Speaker 3>that we took to the last election that have been

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<v Speaker 3>adopted you know, laterly across our parties that will continue.

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<v Speaker 2>So Senator Rushton says she's sure the Liberals will still

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<v Speaker 2>believe in many of the things they used to believe in.

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<v Speaker 2>She just can't say which of what they used to

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<v Speaker 2>believe they might still believe when they're through reviewing their beliefs.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you believe it?

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<v Speaker 2>Senator Rustin, who was the shadow Health spokesperson under Peter Dutton,

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<v Speaker 2>was asked if the Liberal Party would stand by the

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<v Speaker 2>health policies she was espousing just a few weeks ago.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, look, as I said, I'm not going to rule in,

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<v Speaker 3>rule out.

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<v Speaker 1>No idea.

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<v Speaker 2>The most definitive statement the ABC could get on health

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<v Speaker 2>from the former health spokesperson was this.

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<v Speaker 4>Your support for those billing incentives and other measures that

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<v Speaker 4>Labor announced during the election campaign. Are they all now

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<v Speaker 4>up in the air as well?

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<v Speaker 5>Well?

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously, the first thing I want to see in the

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<v Speaker 3>health policy area is that the Labor Party actually delivers

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<v Speaker 3>on what it's promised, Because Australians aren't doing it really

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<v Speaker 3>tough when it comes to health. I mean, it's never

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<v Speaker 3>been harder or more expensive to see a doctor. And

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<v Speaker 3>so I really wish the Labor Party well in making

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<v Speaker 3>sure that their policies are implemented so Australians can afford

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<v Speaker 3>to go and see a doctrin.

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<v Speaker 2>I nearly choked on my corn flax watching that this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>The only definitive Liberal Party position right now seems to

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<v Speaker 2>be that the Liberal Party wish is the Labor Party

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<v Speaker 2>well in implementing Labor Party policies. I can almost hear

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<v Speaker 2>Anthi Alberenzi shouting Hallelujah from the Vatican. There was one issue, however,

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<v Speaker 2>on which Senator Rustin was prepared to take a stand.

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<v Speaker 4>Some of your Liberal colleagues and National colleagues want to

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<v Speaker 4>change abortion laws in Australia. Your South Australian Senate colleague

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<v Speaker 4>Alex Antik and the Nationals Matt Canavan co sponsored a

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<v Speaker 4>bill in the last Parliament. Is that now under review

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<v Speaker 4>as well? Your position on abortion?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, as far as I'm concerned, the issue of abortion

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<v Speaker 3>is something that's well and truly in the domain of

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<v Speaker 3>the states and territories and it should stay there. But

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<v Speaker 3>my understanding is that there is no proposal before to

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<v Speaker 3>make any changes in relation to the small amount of

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<v Speaker 3>responsibility that the Federal Parliament has for this issue.

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Senator for South Australia Alex Antik, you'll remember, co

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<v Speaker 2>sponsored a bill that would have required doctors to provide

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<v Speaker 2>care for babies born alive after failed abortions. Now that

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<v Speaker 2>bill was defeated. Anyway, I just found it interesting that

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<v Speaker 2>after not ruling anything in or anything out, and Rusten

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<v Speaker 2>was of the understanding that that particular issue had been

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<v Speaker 2>ruled out. Not sure about energy policy, not sure about

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<v Speaker 2>defense policy, not sure about immigration policy, not.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure about health policy.

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<v Speaker 2>But she was pretty sure the Libs wouldn't be revisiting

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of treating unwanted babies humanly. Like I said

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<v Speaker 2>at the top of the show, say a prayer for

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<v Speaker 2>the soul of the Liberal Party. So how will the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party work out what they do and don't believe? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>it'd already choked once on my breakfast cereal this morning,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was about to choke again.

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<v Speaker 3>Well very interestingly, you know, last week after the election result,

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<v Speaker 3>I just used some off the shelf AI just to

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<v Speaker 3>ask what AI thought about the Liberal Party and the

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<v Speaker 3>election result, and there was a I think probably well actually,

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<v Speaker 3>more than anything, it showed me that there were so

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<v Speaker 3>many different issues that Australians were considering when they went

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<v Speaker 3>to the ballot box to vote that I think it

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<v Speaker 3>shows us that we absolutely have to look at everything

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<v Speaker 3>because there was no clear theme apart from quite clearly

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<v Speaker 3>the Australian public went to the ballot box and didn't

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<v Speaker 3>vote for us.

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<v Speaker 1>You have got to be kidding.

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<v Speaker 2>The Liberal Party is apparently so clueless as to why

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<v Speaker 2>they lost the election and what they should do moving forward.

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<v Speaker 1>They've asked AI for suggestions.

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<v Speaker 6>I think, so what did AI tell you?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it nuclear? Was it Peter Dutton?

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<v Speaker 4>Was the Public service cuts?

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<v Speaker 1>What it cit is?

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<v Speaker 6>It didn't.

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<v Speaker 3>There was no clear theme that came out of it,

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<v Speaker 3>but it basically said that the product offering that we

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<v Speaker 3>took to the Australian public were quite clearly Australians did

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<v Speaker 3>not support, and we need to go back to the

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<v Speaker 3>drawing board.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm honestly not sure what's more shocking that the Liberals

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<v Speaker 2>are hoping chat GPT might write their policies for the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty eight election, or that they're admitting it straight

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<v Speaker 2>faced on national TV. So the Liberal Party now has

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<v Speaker 2>a leader who added a consonant to her name because

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<v Speaker 2>a numerologist said it would change her fortunes, and a

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<v Speaker 2>senator who boasts on the ABC about asking Ai what

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<v Speaker 2>their future policy direction should be the only thing missing

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<v Speaker 2>from the Liberal Party room is a genie in lamp

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<v Speaker 2>on this Pope Leo's inaugural mass. If you're a praying person,

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<v Speaker 2>say a prayer for the Liberal Party, and while you're

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<v Speaker 2>at it, for the country. Well, joining me now is

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<v Speaker 2>former Labor advisor Darren Barnett. Darren, thanks for your time tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you what the Liberals have got to decide,

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<v Speaker 2>and decide pretty fast what they stand for, don't they.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean listening to interviews like that, I'm a Liberal

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<v Speaker 2>Party supporter and I was shaking my head.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm not a Liberal Party supporter, and I really enjoyed it.

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<v Speaker 7>So everyone's going to take what they want out of

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<v Speaker 7>that interview. Look, it's utterly remarkable that someone is asking

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<v Speaker 7>Ai why they lost the election. That is truly extraordinary.

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<v Speaker 7>And you put that on a comedy skit and people

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<v Speaker 7>would think it was pretty funny. The fact that it's

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<v Speaker 7>real makes it quite disturbing that I think they should

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<v Speaker 7>be able to figure out what bits worked, what bits didn't,

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<v Speaker 7>what voter cohorts liked the Liberal Party this time around,

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<v Speaker 7>and who didn't. And I don't think they necessarily have

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<v Speaker 7>to reinvent the wheel. At a majority of federal elections

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<v Speaker 7>in the last twenty five years in Australia, the Liberal

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<v Speaker 7>Party or the Coalition have been successful rather than not successful.

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<v Speaker 7>So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but

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<v Speaker 7>just use some common sense to figure out what bits

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<v Speaker 7>didn't make sense, what bits contradicted each other, what bits

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<v Speaker 7>were made impossible by global events. And I say that

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<v Speaker 7>meaning entirely Donald Trump and the way that he was

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<v Speaker 7>approaching his presidency. The Liberal Party was not nimble enough

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<v Speaker 7>during the election campaign and they got caught a number

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<v Speaker 7>of times short of their ground. And that's not a

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<v Speaker 7>matter of chat GPT. That's a matter of just kind

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<v Speaker 7>of getting or use a polite term, getting your stuff together,

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<v Speaker 7>trying to make it a coherent policy offering and have

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<v Speaker 7>people with an appropriate amount of time to chew on

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<v Speaker 7>those policies and decide whether they liked them or not.

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<v Speaker 7>The other thing being there was such an abundance of

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<v Speaker 7>policies during the campaign. I don't think voters knew which

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<v Speaker 7>ones were liberal, which ones were labor. I think the

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<v Speaker 7>whole thing was just a mess, and Anthony Elbanesi kind

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<v Speaker 7>of lifted himself above the fray and it became an

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<v Speaker 7>election campaign about what Peter Dutton was doing, what Donald

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<v Speaker 7>Trump was doing, and really not a great deal about

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<v Speaker 7>what Anthony Elberesi was doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a really good point. I want to bring in

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<v Speaker 1>Lisa Goddard from a DONI Media. Lisa, how did the Liberal.

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<v Speaker 2>Party work out what was just bad policy rejected by

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<v Speaker 2>the electorate and what was poor communication, bad strategy, poor

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<v Speaker 2>social media policy in terms of their campaign? How do

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<v Speaker 2>they decide which of those things lost them the election?

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<v Speaker 2>Did they really need to reevaluate every single policy moving forward?

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<v Speaker 8>Well, James, I think if you're talking about AI, which

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<v Speaker 8>Darren just was, then that works on all the information

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<v Speaker 8>that's plugged into AI. So all the Liberal Party really

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<v Speaker 8>have to do is go back and look at what

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<v Speaker 8>came out after loss in twenty twenty two. I would

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<v Speaker 8>suggest it would all be there, So plug in whatever

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<v Speaker 8>prompts you need and Arrer answers, because a lot of

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<v Speaker 8>history was repeated. Number one, you're talking about the issue

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<v Speaker 8>they have with women. They still have that on the

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<v Speaker 8>table right now. Look, I think Darren, the one thing

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<v Speaker 8>you didn't mention there was all the lies, lie after life,

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<v Speaker 8>lie from elbow, and I think the general public just

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<v Speaker 8>just took that on face value. And the Liberal Party,

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<v Speaker 8>as far as I'm concerned, they're one great failing was

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<v Speaker 8>that they didn't call those out.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe AI could call out labor lies in the future.

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<v Speaker 2>Perhaps the Liberal Party could use that you mentioned, Lisa,

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<v Speaker 2>the issue of women. The Liberal Party's new Deputy leader

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<v Speaker 2>has called for his party to be more effective in

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<v Speaker 2>representing modern Australia. Following their defeat, Toda O'Brien has acknowledged

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<v Speaker 2>the need for more women within the party. He told

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<v Speaker 2>The Guardian, I absolutely believe we need to see a

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<v Speaker 2>bigger Liberal Party which reflects modern Australia and represents modern Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>and that includes more women, not just running as parliamentarians,

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<v Speaker 2>but throughout the party. Well, the Liberal Party do seem

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<v Speaker 2>to have a woman problem. His Liberal Party Vice president

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<v Speaker 2>Fiona Scott last week, when asked how long how.

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<v Speaker 1>Long do you give her. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 8>I mean, a day's a long time in politics, Carls.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not exactly a re enforcement, Selisa.

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<v Speaker 2>I've got to ask, what's the point of getting more

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<v Speaker 2>women into the Liberal Party if the women already in

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<v Speaker 2>the party are treating other women in the party like that?

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<v Speaker 8>Very good question, James. I think the issue with that

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<v Speaker 8>was she was trying to be funny. You would hope

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<v Speaker 8>that that was the case, and it landed very, very badly.

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<v Speaker 8>I think what we do need to do is support

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<v Speaker 8>the women who are there. Look there, there's been a

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<v Speaker 8>lot of people questioning the appointment of Susan Lee. Even

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<v Speaker 8>now in days on now we still question whether it's

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<v Speaker 8>Lee or Lay. You have to stop and think so

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<v Speaker 8>her brand itself is an issue, But amongst the party,

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<v Speaker 8>we all have to get behind all of the women,

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<v Speaker 8>have to get behind the female leader. We have to

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<v Speaker 8>get behind unity within the party because otherwise what chance

0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.760
<v Speaker 8>do we have. And I think what has to happen

0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:20.600
<v Speaker 8>is you need to go back to grass roots. You

0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.040
<v Speaker 8>need to look at the branches. And I can tell

0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.440
<v Speaker 8>you if you've been to any of those branch meetings

0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.719
<v Speaker 8>in the back rooms of a local library or a

0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.920
<v Speaker 8>community hall. There are plenty of women there, perhaps not

0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.280
<v Speaker 8>of the demographic that they need, and that's where they

0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.760
<v Speaker 8>need to work harder, but there are women there. When

0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.559
<v Speaker 8>they're looking for their candidates, they need to do a

0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 8>better decision making process around where do they put the

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.760
<v Speaker 8>good women that they do have, because you look at

0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.520
<v Speaker 8>what happens to female politicians, even male politicians. To put

0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.840
<v Speaker 8>yourself forward to go into politics, you have to be

0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.080
<v Speaker 8>a fairly brave person, I think, and you need to

0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 8>want to do it for the right reasons. You go

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 8>in to cople lot of flak. You have to be

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 8>prepared for that. I think we need to back the

0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.440
<v Speaker 8>women in and if they are putting their hands up

0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.840
<v Speaker 8>and they are good candidates quotas, but are good candidates

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.319
<v Speaker 8>on merit, put them into seats that are winnable. Don't

0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 8>put them into the seats where they're likely to have

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 8>to go in there for the fight of their life

0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:08.400
<v Speaker 8>and most likely not win.

0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Lisa, you mentioned quotas, and that has been suggested by

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:15.160
<v Speaker 2>some in the Liberal Party.

0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:16.720
<v Speaker 1>I'll get to that in a moment.

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.679
<v Speaker 2>But if you're going to stand for women, surely you've

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.840
<v Speaker 2>got to have the courage to say what a woman is.

0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Here's Peter Dutton during the election. The British Supreme Court

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.840
<v Speaker 1>yesterday has ruled that a woman is defined as a

0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.600
<v Speaker 1>biological female and not someone who identifies as a woman.

0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's the right call? And in light

0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 1>of this ruling, what is your definition of a woman? Well,

0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.480
<v Speaker 1>that's a matter obviously, it's been before the British courts.

0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.719
<v Speaker 9>I haven't seen the detail of the case and it's

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 9>not something that's I think his front of mine's at

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 9>this election. I think.

0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:50.400
<v Speaker 1>So Lisa riddled me this.

0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.679
<v Speaker 2>How can you claim to be worried about women when

0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 2>you won't address the issue of what a woman is?

0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.199
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, look, I do personally I think that was a failing.

0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 8>The answer that he gave there is one oh one

0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.720
<v Speaker 8>in media training. It was complete the first question, don't

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.360
<v Speaker 8>give it answer. It was sitting on a fence, and

0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 8>at some point, when you sit on a barbed wiye fence,

0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.960
<v Speaker 8>it's going to hurt. And I think that one hurts them.

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.080
<v Speaker 1>It certainly did. Darren.

0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 2>How far is having a female leader as the Liberals

0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:25.000
<v Speaker 2>now have go in helping them increase their popularity with

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:26.200
<v Speaker 2>women in the electorate.

0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 7>Look, I think there's a couple of different strands to this. Firstly,

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.240
<v Speaker 7>one problem that the Liberal Party has and is the

0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 7>type of women they want to encourage to run for

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 7>the Liberal Party at the moment are running as teals,

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:45.720
<v Speaker 7>and that also extends to people who volunteer for those teals.

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 7>If you look at the campaign launches of the various teals,

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 7>a lot of it's probably at least fifty percent women,

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 7>probably women of maybe women of all ages. Actually it's

0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.280
<v Speaker 7>a sort of very progressive young environmental focus in younger women,

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 7>but a lot of older women also are very supportive

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.840
<v Speaker 7>of the tials, and that is in many ways it's

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 7>a failing of the Liberal Party to not capture that

0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:15.040
<v Speaker 7>cohort of people into their structures before the tials became

0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 7>a thing. And beyond that, there's little voter segments. It's

0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 7>also the migrant vote, unusually was quite pro labor this

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 7>time around, and younger voters, people under the age of

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 7>twenty five, the voter that voter cohort went labor and

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.960
<v Speaker 7>went progressive. So there's multiple fronts that the Liberal Party

0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 7>needs to look at in order to try and lift

0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 7>its game. I think there's still a very strong future

0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 7>for the Liberal Party. I don't try and say that

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 7>there's anything else, but they do need to really do

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 7>their homework and figure out how to get people to

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 7>believe in what they believe in. And as you rightly

0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 7>point out, then they've got to figure out what they

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 7>believe in. And that's a bigger question because at the

0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.000
<v Speaker 7>moment the rule in, rule out game, even though they're

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 7>in opposition, it doesn't leave Trueboo supporters overly and amored

0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.200
<v Speaker 7>by the current product, and that becomes an issue. Susan Lee.

0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.200
<v Speaker 7>I agree, get behind Susan Lee as the leader, give

0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.480
<v Speaker 7>her at least a couple of years, maybe a term,

0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 7>to try and figure out whether she can connect with

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 7>the Australian people. But the type of things that we've

0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 7>seen today in the media and in general, she's not

0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 7>going to last that long if they can't get some

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 7>discipline and figure out what they stand for.

0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Darren, just before we move on to another topic, you

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 2>know both the Liberal Party and the Labor Party now

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 2>have had one female leader. Labor had Julia Gillard, now

0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 2>the Liberals have Susan Lee. But I'm going to argue

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.040
<v Speaker 2>push back on me if you want that the Liberals

0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 2>should have more credit with women in the electric because

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Julia Gillard was installed by labor factions.

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Where as Susan Lee she was.

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Elected by a popular vote of the party room. So

0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the Liberals should get some credit for that, shouldn't they?

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 7>What I would say, And as you know, I worked

0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 7>in Julia's office. If you come to the leadership in

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 7>a close contest, or if there was someone who where

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 7>the zeitgeis creates winners and losers, and the vote for

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 7>Susan Lee was quite close, there's always going to be

0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.400
<v Speaker 7>a drum beat behind you of those who frankly want

0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 7>to see you fail. And I think that's one of

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.720
<v Speaker 7>the big problems that Susan Lee faces, that that leadership

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.560
<v Speaker 7>ballot was very close, and there'll be a lot of

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.119
<v Speaker 7>people who are looking for her missteps rather than her

0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 7>steps forward. And that was certainly the case in the

0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.120
<v Speaker 7>Gillard era that we could always hear footsteps behind us.

0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.560
<v Speaker 7>There were always mine fields ahead of us, and that

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 7>becomes a really difficult environment in which to operate. So

0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.080
<v Speaker 7>I wish Susan Lee well, but it's going to be

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 7>a difficult terrain ahead for her. I think.

0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 2>You're probably right, And of course the sound of footsteps

0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.359
<v Speaker 2>sneaking up behind you is going to be the case

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 2>whether you're a male or a female in that leadership position,

0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Ted O'Brien, as I said, the deputy in the Liberal

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Party has refused to confirm if he'll become Shadow Treasurer

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.040
<v Speaker 2>following rumors that Susan Lee offered positions to colleagues prior

0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 2>to her leadership. Run O'Brien was pressed on this by

0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Andrew Clenel this morning.

0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.639
<v Speaker 5>Have a look, will you be taking on the shadow

0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 5>treasury role? Do you think.

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:31.199
<v Speaker 10>Those conversations continue to be had, Andrew, we haven't finalized them,

0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:35.240
<v Speaker 10>and until they are finalized, I won't be preempting any.

0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 5>She promised it, and she promised it to someone else.

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 5>Has she promised that job.

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 10>For myself, whether it be for myself or for anybody else.

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 6>In due course, Andrew, all of that will be made

0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:49.439
<v Speaker 6>very clear.

0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Early days, we've had an issue.

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 5>Let me ask you, very very bluntly, sort of the

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 5>yes or no question. Has susanly promised the shadow treasurer

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.160
<v Speaker 5>a job to some one other than yourself.

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.080
<v Speaker 10>I understand your wish for a yes or no answer

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:07.400
<v Speaker 10>to any question, Andrew.

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:08.640
<v Speaker 6>And I respect that I really do.

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:13.959
<v Speaker 10>But again, my answer doesn't change where you're having these discussions.

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.600
<v Speaker 2>At the moment, it looks absolutely shambalic. I would have

0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 2>thought that Susan Lee and Tedo O'Brien would have at

0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.480
<v Speaker 2>least sorted the basics out. Maybe I'm being unfair, So

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.320
<v Speaker 2>I want to get two angles on this, Darren. I

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 2>want to get from you the political machinations of this,

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 2>and Lisa, I want to get from you whether or

0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.440
<v Speaker 2>not you thought Ted O'Brien handled that well this morning,

0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.840
<v Speaker 2>or if he could have done it better. I'll start

0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.920
<v Speaker 2>with you, Darren. Is it strange that they've not sort

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 2>it out ted O'Brien's role as the deputy leader. They're

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 2>still trying to figure that out.

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.159
<v Speaker 7>He either has the option of portfolios or he doesn't.

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.159
<v Speaker 7>I would have thought that he did, and if he

0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 7>has the option of portfolios, he should say what it is.

0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.240
<v Speaker 7>I have no doubt that he knows what job he's

0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 7>going to get. I'd respect at one level that they're

0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.560
<v Speaker 7>trying to make it a flatter announcement, but those top

0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:06.119
<v Speaker 7>two positions that should already be sorted So he probably

0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.240
<v Speaker 7>should have just fessed up and given the answer as

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 7>per the question.

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that's what I thought when I watched that

0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.679
<v Speaker 2>interview this morning. But Lisa, you do media training, You

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.440
<v Speaker 2>advise politicians sometimes on how they should address difficult questions.

0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.639
<v Speaker 1>How did he fare there? Could he have done something different?

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.399
<v Speaker 8>Look, he did the dance I think that he was

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.320
<v Speaker 8>instructed to do. He wasn't meant to give an answer.

0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.359
<v Speaker 8>And whether he knows what portfolio will go into or not,

0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 8>the party ruling would be you do not talk about it.

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.040
<v Speaker 8>So he had to face down, clenel and do that

0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:44.880
<v Speaker 8>dance where it's avoid the answer that you don't want

0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:46.879
<v Speaker 8>to give it. If he doesn't, if he doesn't say it,

0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:48.639
<v Speaker 8>they can't use it. So he has to hold that

0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.359
<v Speaker 8>party line. At some point they will make that big announcement.

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.000
<v Speaker 8>And look, it goes towards that need for the Liberal

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.960
<v Speaker 8>Party to look united. They can't have one person breaking

0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.760
<v Speaker 8>ranks and folding in an interview and giving out information

0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:01.000
<v Speaker 8>that they don't want out there yet.

0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:03.120
<v Speaker 1>So I think he did a good job.

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:05.440
<v Speaker 8>It looks but he did a good job as far

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:06.720
<v Speaker 8>as staying on message.

0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.320
<v Speaker 2>A politician avoiding answering questions, I've never seen that before.

0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:13.639
<v Speaker 1>He did do a good job.

0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.159
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk about what's going on at the

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Vatican right now. People gathered in massive numbers today in

0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Saint Peter's Square to witness Pope Leo the fourteenth inauguration.

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Many of our viewers would have been watching the broadcast earlier,

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>and they were of course joined by world leaders, including

0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister Anthony Elberizi, who met with the Pope just

0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.960
<v Speaker 2>about an hour ago. Now, I want to talk about

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 2>the PM's presence of the inauguration in a moment, but first,

0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.760
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting to me that the Christian faith, much maligned

0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.360
<v Speaker 2>these days, is front and center in world affairs. Again,

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.760
<v Speaker 2>the Catholic Church and the monarchy are the oldest institutions

0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:54.520
<v Speaker 2>in Western civilization, Darren, How important is the Catholic Church

0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.120
<v Speaker 2>still and what role does it have to play in

0:21:58.200 --> 0:21:59.040
<v Speaker 2>the modern world.

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 7>Well, one point four billion Catholics around the globe that

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.720
<v Speaker 7>it is a very important job. And it's probably as

0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.640
<v Speaker 7>political as it ever has been. And I think that

0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.400
<v Speaker 7>Pope Leo is a good choice, is going to be

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:18.240
<v Speaker 7>an interesting pope, and I think everyone is quite excited,

0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.840
<v Speaker 7>and certainly the Progressives are probably more excited than some others.

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.439
<v Speaker 7>But look I think the Pope has an incredibly valuable

0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.840
<v Speaker 7>role to play. There's suggestions he may get involved in

0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:35.560
<v Speaker 7>some sort of ceasefire discussions in Russia Ukraine, for example.

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 7>I don't know if he will or he won't. Previously

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 7>there was a pope who one of the popes who

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.399
<v Speaker 7>got involved in Chile versus Argentina or and other conflicts

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.200
<v Speaker 7>predominantly in Catholic nations obviously, but I think the role

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:54.080
<v Speaker 7>itself is incredibly important and therefore it's getting the respect

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 7>that it deserves from world leaders, including our own.

0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.440
<v Speaker 1>So, as I said, the Prime Minister was there.

0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Now he's been reluctant to speak publicly about his faith.

0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:07.959
<v Speaker 2>He decided not to take an oath on the Bible

0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.280
<v Speaker 2>when being sworn in as Prime Minister just the other day.

0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.199
<v Speaker 2>But he has made a big deal about being the

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:18.119
<v Speaker 2>first Australian PM to attend a pope's inauguration. So we

0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.840
<v Speaker 2>write to question whether his attendance is motivated by his

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:25.000
<v Speaker 2>faith or whether it's just political. Remember back in twenty nineteen,

0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.200
<v Speaker 2>the Labor Party did produce an internal report that said

0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 2>they needed to connect with people of faith in Australia better.

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Is this just part of that. Do we write to

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.720
<v Speaker 2>be cynical or do you think it's part of his

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:38.159
<v Speaker 2>personal faith journey.

0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:40.760
<v Speaker 9>I don't.

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:43.840
<v Speaker 8>It does sound about the cynical James. Look, I think

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:46.680
<v Speaker 8>it's a great honor to have the opportunity to go

0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:49.439
<v Speaker 8>and be there for a moment in history like this.

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 8>The fact that he is Catholic, I think that would

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.320
<v Speaker 8>mean even more. Look, we're not always the greatest fans

0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:57.640
<v Speaker 8>of Anthony Albanesi on these programs. However, I think as

0:23:57.640 --> 0:23:59.840
<v Speaker 8>a Prime Minister, for him to be there representing the country,

0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 8>they're representing all of the Catholics in this country, including

0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:06.640
<v Speaker 8>that his faith himself. I think that's a very important

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.400
<v Speaker 8>day for him. What I found really interesting, and yes

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.199
<v Speaker 8>that the pageantry of what you see in that broadcast

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.080
<v Speaker 8>is something to behold, is when you look at anything

0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:17.240
<v Speaker 8>to do with the royal family. What I found interesting

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:20.200
<v Speaker 8>this morning was an interview where I saw Anthony Albanesi

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:22.679
<v Speaker 8>being interviewed and in the background was Keith Pitt, who

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.399
<v Speaker 8>we know. Normally you would never have seen Pitt standing

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.000
<v Speaker 8>behind Anthony Albanesi in any press conference whatsoever. He's now

0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:31.000
<v Speaker 8>at the Vatican, So what a time and history for him.

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 2>To be there as well.

0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, it was a pretty historic event obviously, and broadcast

0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:42.320
<v Speaker 2>on this network just earlier tonight. Well, Darren Barnett and

0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:44.679
<v Speaker 2>Lisa Goddard, thank you for your time tonight.

0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Appreciate your comments. Well, stick with us.

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Because we're about to go to get more on the

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Pope's inauguration.

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.160
<v Speaker 1>Joining me now live from.

0:24:55.960 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 2>The Vatican is Sky News political correspondent Cam Redden. Cam

0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining me tonight. Obviously a massive day. Just

0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:08.560
<v Speaker 2>describe the atmosphere there you've been taking it all in.

0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:09.240
<v Speaker 1>What was it like?

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:14.480
<v Speaker 11>You can see Saint Peter's Basilica behind me here in

0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:16.840
<v Speaker 11>the outskirts of the Vatican, James, It really is difficult

0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:19.040
<v Speaker 11>to wrap your head around the sense of scale for this,

0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:22.400
<v Speaker 11>and Peter's Square is not an enormous space in itself. Yes,

0:25:22.400 --> 0:25:25.440
<v Speaker 11>there's a sense of scale with the tall marble towers

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:28.280
<v Speaker 11>and this incredible sight of just a sea of people,

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:30.560
<v Speaker 11>but more than one hundred and fifty thousand people is

0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 11>the estimate, with flags on display from all corners of

0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:37.560
<v Speaker 11>the world crammed in here for this two hour inauguration mass.

0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:40.199
<v Speaker 11>Of course, Pope Leo, the first American pope. There were

0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:43.400
<v Speaker 11>plenty of American flags there. Jd Vance, the Vice President,

0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:45.640
<v Speaker 11>had a front row seat to this, and about fifteen

0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:48.760
<v Speaker 11>feet to his right was the Prime Minister Anthony Albanizi.

0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:52.280
<v Speaker 11>It is quite a special occasion, obviously for the Catholics

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:55.240
<v Speaker 11>around the world, James, but standing here in amongst the

0:25:55.240 --> 0:25:57.239
<v Speaker 11>press pack from all around the world, there were some

0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:01.119
<v Speaker 11>people feeling genuinely emotional even just watching this play out.

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 11>The world is such an uncertain place at the moment,

0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 11>and the core message really at the heart of the

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.359
<v Speaker 11>homily from the Pope today was one of love, of faith,

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:12.440
<v Speaker 11>and of hope and endurance in difficult times. He drew

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:15.600
<v Speaker 11>much on one of his predecessors, Pope Leo the thirteenth.

0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:18.920
<v Speaker 11>He deliberately took the name Pope Leo the fourteenth, given

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.600
<v Speaker 11>that his predecessor, at least in terms of the name,

0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 11>was one who steered the world and the church through

0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.280
<v Speaker 11>the Industrial Revolution. He's spoken about some of the changes

0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:30.439
<v Speaker 11>the world faces today and the challenges of conflict, and

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:33.560
<v Speaker 11>of course also the upheaval of workforces through things like

0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:36.760
<v Speaker 11>artificial intelligence. So that's why he chose that name. But

0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:39.119
<v Speaker 11>the sense of scale, James, is what has really stuck

0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:42.399
<v Speaker 11>with me well beyond the Basilica and the square as well,

0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:44.960
<v Speaker 11>tens of thousands of people from all over the world

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 11>flooding here to the streets of the Vatican and Rome

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:47.760
<v Speaker 11>to celebrate.

0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious it's something you just said there that you

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.840
<v Speaker 2>said members of the press pack, And we know the

0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:56.760
<v Speaker 2>press pack can.

0:26:56.640 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Be pretty cynical.

0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:00.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean they see lots of things good, bad and ugly,

0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:04.040
<v Speaker 2>but getting quite emotional as the Pope spoke.

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:05.679
<v Speaker 1>Just tell me more about that.

0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:10.439
<v Speaker 11>Well, we were in amongst the international media, so there

0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:12.359
<v Speaker 11>are a few was he is there? A couple of dozen.

0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.440
<v Speaker 11>We were standing next to some reporters from Peru who

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:18.640
<v Speaker 11>were covering the inauguration mass as well, and of course

0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:21.280
<v Speaker 11>the Pope's connections with Peru were well known. He was

0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:24.159
<v Speaker 11>there for more than a decade. He was a figure

0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:26.680
<v Speaker 11>of leadership at a time where there was constant political

0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 11>and presidential change in Peru. And one of the women

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 11>who was there became visibly quite emotional as the homily

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:37.480
<v Speaker 11>was read out. The Peruvian Prime Minister was sitting next

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:40.320
<v Speaker 11>to JD. Vance and they were right in our eyeline

0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:42.920
<v Speaker 11>as all of this was playing out. So perhaps there's

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.840
<v Speaker 11>just a sense of yes, the gravitas of this, James,

0:27:45.840 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 11>but maybe that message hitting home as well also in

0:27:48.600 --> 0:27:51.560
<v Speaker 11>the crowd there Voladimir Zelenski, who is leading his nation

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:56.440
<v Speaker 11>through a wartime and an invasion. So that message from

0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:59.439
<v Speaker 11>the pope perhaps striking home, Yes, with the many tens

0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:02.359
<v Speaker 11>of thousands in attendance, But sometimes us journo, as our

0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:03.960
<v Speaker 11>people as well, we do have to show a little

0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:05.280
<v Speaker 11>bit of emotion from time to time.

0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, Cam Absolutely, I'm intrigued as to the competing.

0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Attention.

0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:18.560
<v Speaker 2>You've got the Pope, obviously he's the star of the

0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 2>show with his inauguration, but you mentioned you've got Zelenski,

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:24.680
<v Speaker 2>You've got jd Vance, So everyone will be watching their

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:28.560
<v Speaker 2>body language after that awkward interaction in the White House

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:31.439
<v Speaker 2>earlier in the year, I got Anthony Albanezi and so

0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 2>on and so forth. Members of the press, what are

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>they focusing on more the actual inauguration or the body

0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:43.920
<v Speaker 2>language and what's going on in the public arena where

0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 2>you've got some pretty high profile world leaders.

0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:51.760
<v Speaker 11>It's the show and then the slideshow. James, Absolutely, there'll

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:54.120
<v Speaker 11>certainly be an attention on the inauguration. But now that

0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:56.120
<v Speaker 11>that's done, this is when a lot of the diplomacy

0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 11>will take place. The world leaders all descended from where

0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:03.480
<v Speaker 11>they were in St. Peter's Square inside the Basilica, where

0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 11>they've been taken to private rooms for some mingling time,

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:08.360
<v Speaker 11>and that's where the real value, at least from a

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 11>diplomatic or political sense, is for those leaders. The Prime

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.800
<v Speaker 11>Minister is already scheduled to meet today with Ursula Vonderland,

0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.080
<v Speaker 11>the head of the European Commission, who happened to be

0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:20.400
<v Speaker 11>sitting next to Volodimir Zelenski as a part of the

0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.400
<v Speaker 11>inauguration mass, and the Prime Minister also set to meet

0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 11>with Zelensky later today, as well as other world leaders

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:29.800
<v Speaker 11>potentially tomorrow, including the Canadian Prime Minister Mark Karney. So

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:33.959
<v Speaker 11>there's always that sense of when in Rome, I suppose James,

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:35.680
<v Speaker 11>and when in a room with some of the world's

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 11>most powerful people, to take that opportunity to say hello,

0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:41.160
<v Speaker 11>to try and get that face time, all of that

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:44.200
<v Speaker 11>at once is so valuable and so rare to happen

0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:46.959
<v Speaker 11>in a forum like this. So there'll certainly be attention

0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 11>on what will happen inside that room, and perhaps perhaps

0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:54.040
<v Speaker 11>we never know, will there be some kind of communication

0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:56.840
<v Speaker 11>between the Prime Minister and Jade Vans. They were only

0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 11>separated by a few feet in the rows there, James.

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.200
<v Speaker 11>Perhaps the Prime Minister will have a chance to say

0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:04.160
<v Speaker 11>gooday to the Vice President in the next few minutes.

0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, cam Redden, you mentioned when in Rome. I'm not there,

0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:11.280
<v Speaker 2>but you are in Rome. Hopefully you've got a chance

0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.280
<v Speaker 2>to enjoy the place now the inauguration is finished. I

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:17.320
<v Speaker 2>appreciate you filling us in what happened tonight.

0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much.

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 2>We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be

0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:21.480
<v Speaker 2>back in just a moment with.

0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:22.520
<v Speaker 1>More fired up debate.

0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:26.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll be with IPA Senior Fellow John Roscombe and pr

0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Council's managing director at Christy McSweeney in just a moment.

0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to the program. Joining me now to chat

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:41.920
<v Speaker 2>about more of this weekend's top stories is John Roscombe,

0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Senior Fellow at the IPA.

0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:45.240
<v Speaker 1>John Senior.

0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Figures within the Liberal Party have reaffirmed the importance of

0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 2>the coalition agreement they're still negotiating, obviously with the Nationals.

0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Liberal front benches Ted O'Brien and Anne Rustin have separately

0:30:57.280 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 2>claimed the Liberal Party is at its strongest it's united

0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:01.720
<v Speaker 2>with the Nationals.

0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Have a listen.

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:08.280
<v Speaker 10>There's no doubt Andrew that the Liberal Party and the

0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 10>National Party are at their strongest when they are in

0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:15.760
<v Speaker 10>a coalition and they're working together. That's proven to be

0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.600
<v Speaker 10>the case over many, many years, and it will continue

0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:19.920
<v Speaker 10>to be the case, I believe.

0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:25.120
<v Speaker 2>So there you go, John, For all the talk of

0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:27.880
<v Speaker 2>a split in the coalition, there's buckleys and none that

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 2>the Nets would go their own way surely.

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:35.280
<v Speaker 6>Well not necessarily, James.

0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:38.720
<v Speaker 9>I'm one of these people who thinks more voices, more

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:43.400
<v Speaker 9>alternatives is better. It was the Nationals that led the

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 9>way on the voice. It's been the Nationals leading the

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:52.800
<v Speaker 9>debate about why NED zero is a disastrous policy for Australia.

0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 9>And I'm a coalition supporter, but I'd argue in opposition

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.600
<v Speaker 9>now both parties need to get their house in order

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:04.440
<v Speaker 9>that the more debate, the more argument we have, the better.

0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:07.280
<v Speaker 9>And I'm not sure why either the Liberal Party or

0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:11.160
<v Speaker 9>the National Party would be rushing to coalition. There's much

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:15.360
<v Speaker 9>bigger issues to be debated than simply a top secret

0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:18.520
<v Speaker 9>document between the leaders of the two parties and how

0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 9>you divvy out shadow portfolio positions.

0:32:24.320 --> 0:32:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Let me bring in Christy McSweeney from pr Council. CHRISTI

0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party are going to take their time to

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>work out whether they still believe in that zero or

0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>nuclear power, or slashing migration and.

0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:36.720
<v Speaker 1>A host of other issues.

0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:38.440
<v Speaker 2>You would have heard at the top of the show

0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:42.240
<v Speaker 2>and Rustin's saying they're ruling nothing in and nothing out.

0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Can you remember when a political party literally put everything

0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:50.160
<v Speaker 2>on the table and said, look, we don't know what

0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:53.040
<v Speaker 2>we believe and we won't for a while to come.

0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Look, I.

0:32:56.800 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 6>Really can't.

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:00.640
<v Speaker 12>I don't think it's less of we don't know what

0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:04.080
<v Speaker 12>we believe. It's more of what's palatable for us to

0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:08.800
<v Speaker 12>hold the coalition agreement together and what's palatable to the

0:33:08.840 --> 0:33:13.280
<v Speaker 12>electorate based on what we believe might not be electoral reality.

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:17.920
<v Speaker 12>So I don't remember the last time. This is extraordinary.

0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:21.320
<v Speaker 12>But let's really be clear here, if we talk about

0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:26.560
<v Speaker 12>coalition agreements, it nearly blew up in two thousand and six,

0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:30.840
<v Speaker 12>two thousand and seven when Julian mcgarren defected to the

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:36.560
<v Speaker 12>National Party. It's always been re engineered back together by

0:33:36.640 --> 0:33:39.200
<v Speaker 12>the leader of the Liberal Party and the Federal Director

0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:42.600
<v Speaker 12>and the leader of the National Party. Despite the descent

0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:45.840
<v Speaker 12>down the pyramid. So let's see what happens this time.

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.800
<v Speaker 12>Of course, the coalition is not in a coalition. The

0:33:48.880 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 12>coalition parties aren't in a formal coalition in Western Australia.

0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:56.480
<v Speaker 12>They are not in a formal coalition in other states

0:33:56.480 --> 0:34:00.880
<v Speaker 12>from time to time. Let's see what happens. Are they

0:34:01.000 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 12>right to argue for a higher representation of the front bench? Perhaps?

0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Perhaps I'm curious to know where does Senator Price stand

0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:16.960
<v Speaker 2>now in terms of things. She's moved to the Liberal Party,

0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 2>ran for deputy, then decided to withdraw from that race.

0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:23.240
<v Speaker 1>Where does that leave her now?

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:29.080
<v Speaker 9>Well, this is something that I think the coalition MPs,

0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 9>especially Liberal MPs, have to decide and understand that Jasinda

0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:37.160
<v Speaker 9>Nambajimbra Price is an outstanding Australian.

0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:40.720
<v Speaker 6>What struck me watching her move from the National's.

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:44.120
<v Speaker 9>Party room to the Liberal Party room is that so

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:48.759
<v Speaker 9>many women who had been calling for stronger representation of

0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:54.960
<v Speaker 9>women were absolutely silent about her movement, about the potential

0:34:55.000 --> 0:34:57.440
<v Speaker 9>for her to become the deputy leader of the Liberal

0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:02.360
<v Speaker 9>Party because she's a Conservative and what the Liberal Party

0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:04.600
<v Speaker 9>have to understand is she's a huge asset.

0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:06.200
<v Speaker 6>She has to be used.

0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 9>Peter Dunton appointed her to the doge position just before

0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:12.600
<v Speaker 9>the election. He gave her no resources, he gave her

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:14.680
<v Speaker 9>no capacity to shape the debate.

0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:17.480
<v Speaker 6>As she said, she was shut out of the campaign.

0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:21.600
<v Speaker 9>And if the Liberal Party is to remotely make itself

0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:24.960
<v Speaker 9>electable in six years, let alone three years, then she

0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:27.360
<v Speaker 9>has to be a key part of the rebuild.

0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would have thought.

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:30.640
<v Speaker 3>So.

0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:33.799
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk about other Liberals with problems, and

0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:37.320
<v Speaker 2>that's the Victorian Liberal Party. You've got former Liberal Premier

0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Jeff Kennett urging the public and his party to support

0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:43.359
<v Speaker 2>John Pisuto after he was ordered to pay two point

0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 2>three million dollars in costs following that loss in the

0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:51.359
<v Speaker 2>defamation case sport by Moira Deeming. An online fundraiser has

0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:53.400
<v Speaker 2>been launched in a bid to help him avoid the

0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.120
<v Speaker 2>possibility of bankruptcy. The last I saw, I think it

0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:58.200
<v Speaker 2>was up to about eighteen thousand.

0:35:57.719 --> 0:35:59.319
<v Speaker 1>Dollars, So it's got a way to go.

0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Jeff can it praise the former opposition leader as a good,

0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:07.399
<v Speaker 2>proper and decent MP and he told The Guardian he's

0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:09.880
<v Speaker 2>on the brink of bankruptcy. And I think if the public,

0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:13.600
<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party and its organizations came together, we can

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:18.440
<v Speaker 2>prevent that happening. Christy, imagine you're a Liberal Party member.

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Would you be handing over your hard earned cash to

0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:24.719
<v Speaker 2>help out John pursuito or are you're expecting your donations

0:36:24.760 --> 0:36:28.000
<v Speaker 2>to the party to go towards campaigning to win government.

0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:35.000
<v Speaker 12>Well, look, James, there's a tactical way to solve this problem,

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:38.320
<v Speaker 12>and that's a discussion for people who run the Coremac

0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 12>Foundation and two viewers. The Coremac Foundation is a philanthropic

0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:46.560
<v Speaker 12>foundation set up in Melbourne to support the Liberal Party

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:52.200
<v Speaker 12>and it has some thirty odd million dollars, largely because

0:36:52.239 --> 0:36:55.799
<v Speaker 12>it's sold a significant CBD building. And John correct me

0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:58.880
<v Speaker 12>if I'm wrong, but I believe it's governed by board

0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:03.040
<v Speaker 12>of people appointed who are separate to the Liberal Party,

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:07.560
<v Speaker 12>but no through you know, certainly involved in the Liberal

0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:11.040
<v Speaker 12>Party and are there to support the Liberal Party. So

0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:15.600
<v Speaker 12>that is the current dispute, not whether members putting forward

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:19.120
<v Speaker 12>their donations should pay John or Being said, yes, the

0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:22.680
<v Speaker 12>GoFundMe does look like it's asking for that, but the

0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 12>main request is for this very wealthy Cormac Foundation to

0:37:27.280 --> 0:37:31.960
<v Speaker 12>pay the legal bills of somebody who led the Liberal Party.

0:37:32.080 --> 0:37:34.759
<v Speaker 12>Now you know, who's to say that further leaders of

0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:37.840
<v Speaker 12>the Liberal Party may get into trouble in a similar

0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.960
<v Speaker 12>way or another way. And I'm not suggesting that it

0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 12>was managed correctly. I'm not suggesting that you're either on

0:37:44.680 --> 0:37:46.960
<v Speaker 12>that side or another side of what was the right

0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:48.680
<v Speaker 12>thing to do and what wasn't the right thing to do.

0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:53.080
<v Speaker 12>I'm suggesting that the Liberal Party probably has an obligation

0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:56.480
<v Speaker 12>in some way to support somebody who led the party.

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 12>And you know, once it's done, we can put it

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:04.120
<v Speaker 12>behind it and go on campaigning with this free of

0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 12>being in the media and free of being a constant

0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 12>cause of commotion between the party rope for twenty twenty

0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:14.480
<v Speaker 12>six with the election due in November, and as I say,

0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:18.960
<v Speaker 12>there's wives of getting it out the way, fair.

0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Enough, Christy, But John tell me this, is it a

0:38:20.960 --> 0:38:24.680
<v Speaker 2>matter of supporting someone who has led the party or

0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:26.759
<v Speaker 2>is it a matter of avoiding a by election in

0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:30.040
<v Speaker 2>the seat of Hawthorne that the Victorian Liberals could well lose.

0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Is that the real issue, James.

0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:35.480
<v Speaker 6>It's both of those issues.

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:38.560
<v Speaker 9>And the point has been made that a by election

0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:43.240
<v Speaker 9>in the Melbourne seat of Hawthorne, which John Persudo holds

0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:45.560
<v Speaker 9>by just fifteen hundred votes in which at the federal

0:38:45.600 --> 0:38:48.600
<v Speaker 9>election the booth swam to the Labor Party would cost

0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:53.280
<v Speaker 9>the Liberal Party perhaps a million dollars to win because

0:38:53.440 --> 0:38:57.000
<v Speaker 9>Brad Batten, as the relatively new Liberal leader here.

0:38:56.880 --> 0:38:59.440
<v Speaker 6>In Victoria, can't afford a lot.

0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:02.799
<v Speaker 9>That would be a huge blow to the momentum that

0:39:02.840 --> 0:39:06.239
<v Speaker 9>the Liberal Party seems to be building. So it's a

0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:10.280
<v Speaker 9>very difficult choice and us we've been talking about. It's

0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:14.399
<v Speaker 9>something that to most Victorians is now past. I think

0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 9>they're more concerned about the Victorian budget coming up and

0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:18.760
<v Speaker 9>the election November.

0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 6>As we've just been talking about.

0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:24.799
<v Speaker 2>Just one more point on this, and I'll go to

0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:26.879
<v Speaker 2>you Christy, maybe you can help me get my head

0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:30.160
<v Speaker 2>around this. The Liberal Party have a problem with women,

0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:32.919
<v Speaker 2>so the plan is to bail out a guy who

0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:36.200
<v Speaker 2>persecuted a Liberal woman for standing up for women, and

0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:36.719
<v Speaker 2>that's going.

0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:37.160
<v Speaker 6>To help.

0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:42.360
<v Speaker 12>Well, James, you know I don't agree with that argument.

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:45.040
<v Speaker 12>They are two separate arguments. As I said, it's not

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:47.239
<v Speaker 12>about whether you agree it was the right course of

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:51.120
<v Speaker 12>action or not. It's about somebody who led the Liberal

0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:54.359
<v Speaker 12>Party that deserves to not be standing out there on

0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:56.600
<v Speaker 12>a limb. Now, if we can argue the toss was

0:39:56.600 --> 0:39:59.280
<v Speaker 12>it the right thing or the wrong thing? But different context.

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.120
<v Speaker 12>I think if we look at should the Liberal Party

0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:05.480
<v Speaker 12>be an organization that doesn't force someone who's let the

0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:08.920
<v Speaker 12>party into bankruptcy even if they have done the wrong thing,

0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:13.480
<v Speaker 12>I think we probably should be. Given that we want

0:40:13.520 --> 0:40:15.719
<v Speaker 12>to wipe the slight clean and go into twenty twenty six,

0:40:15.840 --> 0:40:18.840
<v Speaker 12>it's going to keep festering this wound if that is

0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:21.759
<v Speaker 12>not done.

0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:25.799
<v Speaker 2>Okay, we'll see how everyone else views that. A group

0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:28.840
<v Speaker 2>of students in far North, Queensland are taking part in

0:40:28.880 --> 0:40:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a world first trial of identity verification technology that will

0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:37.200
<v Speaker 2>help enforce social media age restrictions, which the government hopes

0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:39.480
<v Speaker 2>will be in place by the end of this year now.

0:40:39.520 --> 0:40:40.800
<v Speaker 1>According to the Career Mail.

0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:46.080
<v Speaker 2>The technology being trialed includes age verification, estimation and inference

0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:50.480
<v Speaker 2>applications from checking birth dates against official identity documents and

0:40:50.719 --> 0:40:55.480
<v Speaker 2>biometric screening, as well as using email and phone history.

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:58.279
<v Speaker 2>John the bit that got my attention when I was

0:40:58.320 --> 0:41:02.360
<v Speaker 2>reading this in the Career Mail this morning was biometric testing.

0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Isn't this what critics of the legislation have been afraid of?

0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:10.400
<v Speaker 2>That we're all concerned about young people's use of social media.

0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:14.040
<v Speaker 2>But we don't want biometric testing, do we? I mean

0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:18.080
<v Speaker 2>that opens a whole Pandora's box in terms of privacy

0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:19.719
<v Speaker 2>and government intrusion.

0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:23.960
<v Speaker 6>Or James, I'd go further, We don't want this at all.

0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:27.760
<v Speaker 9>I would argue, this is not just about biometric testing.

0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:31.239
<v Speaker 9>This is not just about the enormous power that and

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:35.520
<v Speaker 9>information the government will have over us. It's about the

0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 9>government usurping the.

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:37.520
<v Speaker 6>Role of parents.

0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:41.319
<v Speaker 9>And I was terribly disappointed when the Coalition gave its

0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:48.280
<v Speaker 9>unquestioning support to a very dangerous proposal that remember, isn't

0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:51.120
<v Speaker 9>just going to require under sixteen.

0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:53.799
<v Speaker 6>Year olds to verify their identity.

0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:57.920
<v Speaker 9>Anyone using social media will have to verify their identity

0:41:57.960 --> 0:41:58.600
<v Speaker 9>because you have.

0:41:58.640 --> 0:42:02.880
<v Speaker 6>To prove that you're not you're not under sixteen.

0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:08.640
<v Speaker 9>So at every level, at a philosophical point, this is dangerous.

0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:12.640
<v Speaker 9>The level of information, the data that is going to

0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:15.960
<v Speaker 9>be collected. We saw during COVID how data that was

0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:19.520
<v Speaker 9>collected and meant to be used for purely medical and

0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:26.200
<v Speaker 9>health purposes was quickly quickly used for other purposes as well.

0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:29.960
<v Speaker 9>There is no good thing that is going to come

0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:32.200
<v Speaker 9>out of this, and I think we're going to see

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.920
<v Speaker 9>changes before too long, because when Australians realized how dangerous

0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:40.080
<v Speaker 9>this is, they're going to be up in arms.

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I hope you're right, John, Hey, John, Christy, stick around.

0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:46.600
<v Speaker 1>I've got more things I want to ask you about

0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:48.280
<v Speaker 1>after the break. Don't go anywhere.

0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:55.279
<v Speaker 2>Will be back in just a moment. But welcome back

0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:57.759
<v Speaker 2>to Paul Murray Live. I'm James macpherson filling in for

0:42:57.840 --> 0:43:01.520
<v Speaker 2>Paul with my panel John Roscombe and Christy McSweeney. Now

0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:04.000
<v Speaker 2>I want to go to Victoria. They've got a budget

0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:08.480
<v Speaker 2>due on Tuesday. Jacinta Allen has given Victoria's to Victorians

0:43:08.520 --> 0:43:11.600
<v Speaker 2>a taste of what they can expect. On Tuesday, she

0:43:11.600 --> 0:43:15.920
<v Speaker 2>announced free public transport for children up to eighteen years old.

0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:19.440
<v Speaker 2>This follows her announcement yesterday where she promised free public

0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:23.759
<v Speaker 2>transport for Victorian seniors aged over sixty on the weekends.

0:43:24.120 --> 0:43:24.799
<v Speaker 6>Here she was.

0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:27.879
<v Speaker 2>Announcing the policy while herself riding on a train free

0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:28.320
<v Speaker 2>of charge.

0:43:28.360 --> 0:43:30.680
<v Speaker 1>I presume, by.

0:43:30.600 --> 0:43:34.240
<v Speaker 13>Focusing on what matters most, we're making public transport free

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:38.560
<v Speaker 13>for every Victorian senior every weekend, right across our great

0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.799
<v Speaker 13>public transport network. That means every train, every tram, every

0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:45.160
<v Speaker 13>bus right across Victoria every weekend, make it easier for

0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:47.600
<v Speaker 13>seniors to perhaps go and see the grand kids, get

0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:50.880
<v Speaker 13>out and about enjoying everything our great state has to offer.

0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:56.799
<v Speaker 2>John and Christy free public transport for kids for pensioners.

0:43:57.400 --> 0:44:00.520
<v Speaker 2>On current projections, Victoria's debt will reach one hundred and

0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:01.160
<v Speaker 2>eighty eight.

0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Billion dollars in just two years time.

0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:07.400
<v Speaker 2>So I guess this giveaway worth an estimated three hundred

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:10.200
<v Speaker 2>and eighteen million dollars isn't going to make much difference

0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to anything.

0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:13.200
<v Speaker 1>John, Is that the way they think the debts so

0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:15.799
<v Speaker 1>big would give away a few more million? What's the

0:44:15.800 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 1>difference anyway?

0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:21.000
<v Speaker 9>Well, that is sadly how we've been thinking in Victoria

0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:27.239
<v Speaker 9>for ten years. This is bad policy, it's inequitable. It

0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:31.360
<v Speaker 9>favors those families lucky enough to live close to public transport.

0:44:32.120 --> 0:44:36.319
<v Speaker 9>This is a labor government that has penalized motorists, that

0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:39.800
<v Speaker 9>has cut spending on road maintenance.

0:44:40.480 --> 0:44:43.400
<v Speaker 6>You drive around Melbourne, we are bedeviled by potholes.

0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:47.319
<v Speaker 9>Country roads are dangerous, Land taxes going up, Farmers are

0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 9>being smashed by new taxes in the middle of a drought.

0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:53.480
<v Speaker 9>And this is what we get from a labor government.

0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:56.520
<v Speaker 9>In addition to the announcement a few days ago of

0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:59.920
<v Speaker 9>several hundred million dollars more to do up the albert

0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:03.880
<v Speaker 9>Grand Prix Track, which is a playground for millionaires. This

0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:06.960
<v Speaker 9>is what we face here in Victoria for those of

0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:10.120
<v Speaker 9>us unlucky enough to live in Melbourne.

0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Christy, you're in Melbourne too, I think, Christy, aren't you?

0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Do people vote for a credible path back to surplus?

0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Is that going to fly with the electric or are

0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:25.840
<v Speaker 2>people just it's the shiny thing? Free public transport? You know,

0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:28.640
<v Speaker 2>we're going to upgrade the Grand Prix track. Can a

0:45:28.640 --> 0:45:33.239
<v Speaker 2>government win election with something as serious as we're going

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to present a credible and realistic path back to surplus?

0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:42.520
<v Speaker 12>Well, an opposition could win an election based on a

0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:45.400
<v Speaker 12>credible and a realistic path back to surplus if they

0:45:45.480 --> 0:45:49.799
<v Speaker 12>presented such credible and realistic path. James and John, I'm

0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:52.920
<v Speaker 12>sure you agree with me. I think the dashes up

0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:58.320
<v Speaker 12>to about twenty four thousand per per person in Victoria,

0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:01.600
<v Speaker 12>every man, woman and child. So I'm glad they're getting

0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:04.560
<v Speaker 12>free public transport. They're going to get something back for

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:08.520
<v Speaker 12>their twenty four thousand dollars per person debt of every

0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:11.399
<v Speaker 12>citizen here in Victoria. If they ever happen to take

0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:16.160
<v Speaker 12>a train. It is ridiculous. Victorians are just living with

0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:19.960
<v Speaker 12>debt and deficent. We've had the big build infrastructure spending

0:46:19.960 --> 0:46:23.719
<v Speaker 12>that can never ever be paid back. I hate to

0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:27.600
<v Speaker 12>think what's going to happen to the credit rating of Victoria.

0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:30.920
<v Speaker 12>And this is we're in dangerous territory here where you

0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:34.480
<v Speaker 12>know Victoria actually had to sell its state bank in

0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:39.080
<v Speaker 12>the late nineties or under the Cane current government, we're

0:46:39.160 --> 0:46:41.920
<v Speaker 12>getting back to being the most depressed economy in Australia.

0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:45.360
<v Speaker 12>We already have the most depressed property and construction industry,

0:46:45.400 --> 0:46:49.839
<v Speaker 12>the highest costs, the most gridlocked traffic. And you know,

0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:54.799
<v Speaker 12>last week we're seeing that Melbourne's going to be Australia's

0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:59.120
<v Speaker 12>fastest growing, most popular city, to rival New York apparently,

0:46:59.239 --> 0:47:03.320
<v Speaker 12>if you believe the demographers in the next a few decades.

0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:07.680
<v Speaker 12>So how we're going to cope with infrastructure to sustain

0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:11.320
<v Speaker 12>that population at with a state that has enough in

0:47:11.360 --> 0:47:13.800
<v Speaker 12>the coppers to do it, I don't know, But I

0:47:13.800 --> 0:47:16.520
<v Speaker 12>don't think anyone in the Allen Labor government has any

0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:17.240
<v Speaker 12>idea either.

0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:20.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure they don't.

0:47:20.920 --> 0:47:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Hey, one last question before we wrap it up, Donald

0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:28.799
<v Speaker 2>Trump is planning on meeting with Vladimir Putin tomorrow to

0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:31.440
<v Speaker 2>try and work out a negotiated peace.

0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Settlement in Europe.

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:35.320
<v Speaker 2>John, and I just wanted to ask you this without

0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.239
<v Speaker 2>going into all the machinations of Putin and Zelenski and

0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:41.279
<v Speaker 2>Trump and whether it can all work. Imagine Trump does

0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:45.160
<v Speaker 2>bring peace. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize after just

0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:48.120
<v Speaker 2>nine months in office for having bought a climate of peace.

0:47:48.719 --> 0:47:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Do you reckon if Trump achieves actual peace he'll get

0:47:51.560 --> 0:47:53.640
<v Speaker 2>a Nobel Peace Prize?

0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:55.840
<v Speaker 6>James, what do you think?

0:47:56.480 --> 0:48:00.760
<v Speaker 9>I think there is absolutely zero chance if of Trump

0:48:00.760 --> 0:48:03.600
<v Speaker 9>getting the Nobel Peace Prize if he brought peace to

0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:08.160
<v Speaker 9>the Middle East, to Ukraine and to sub Sahara Africa,

0:48:09.080 --> 0:48:11.280
<v Speaker 9>that is not going to happen.

0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:15.279
<v Speaker 1>I reckon. You're absolutely right.

0:48:15.400 --> 0:48:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know whether he will achieve it or not,

0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:20.520
<v Speaker 2>but I do know this, if he does achieve it,

0:48:20.960 --> 0:48:23.640
<v Speaker 2>everyone will be critics of it and they'll find fault

0:48:23.680 --> 0:48:28.520
<v Speaker 2>with it, absolutely guaranteed. John Christy, thanks for joining me tonight,

0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:30.959
<v Speaker 2>and all you at home, thanks for tuning in. Paul

0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Murray will be back tomorrow night, but don't go anywhere.

0:48:33.760 --> 0:48:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Coming right up is the Royal Report good night,