1 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody. This week is a week 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: that might well be a milestone in the markets, in 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: international trade. It might be a milestone in history, in 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: investment history, that's for sure, because this is the week 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump unleashes, if you like, his Liberation Day program, 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: which is a program, as I'm sure all listeners know 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: by now, is to introduce a range of tariffs right 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: on imports into the US for across every country in 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: the world, and it has the potential to upend the 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: economic world order as we know it. As we know 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: it back as far as the end of the Second 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: World War nineteen forty seven General Agreement on Trade in Tariffs, 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: which was enhanced and improved all the way up up 15 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: through the World Trade Organization to what we have today. 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: This is now imperiled, basically, and investors don't know where 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: to move. They certainly know what to do in the 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: short term, sell stocks because the US is down five percent. 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: US markets down five percent, the most important market, dragging 20 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: a lot of other markets with it, including our own. 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: So crucial I think to understanding what's happening is an 22 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: understanding of Donald Trump. And my guest today has a 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: unique understanding of Donald Trump because he's been there, He's 24 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: been in the Oval Office, he's been at the rallies, 25 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: he was at the famous rally where they all went 26 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: wild in the capital, and he has a unique view 27 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: on Trump. It's Cameron Stewart and he's the chief international 28 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: correspondent of the Australian. How are you, Cameron, Hi, James. 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: Good to be with you, Good to have you on 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: the show. I think some of us, at least had 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: paid no attention to Trump as when he was in opposition, 32 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: and many people, certainly in the investment markets, didn't expect 33 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: him to return. Tell us you, I'm sure you asked 34 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: us lots of times, but tell us your impression of 35 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: Trump up close, because not many people have been up 36 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: close since seeing him in action. Is he as erratic 37 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: in person as he seem from a distance. Is he charming? 38 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: Is he charismatic? Is he overwhelming? What's it like? 39 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: That's a good question. I've been in the Oval Office 40 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: twice with Trump and been around him a lot in Washington. Firstly, 41 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: I'd say he's very orange. He's even more orange in 42 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: real life than he actually appears on television, which is interesting. 43 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: But look, there's a couple of things that'd say similarities 44 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: between the Trump mark one i'll call it for the 45 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: first term and Trump to this term one. Is absolutely 46 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 2: even more of a showman now than he was then. 47 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: He really understands the business of being the president and 48 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: what you have to look like and the bizaz that goes. 49 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: We all recall the disastrous Oval office meeting between him 50 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: and Ukraine's Zelenski when he said this great television that's 51 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: that was his final take on the actual thing that's 52 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: consistent from the first term. The second thing is that 53 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: he still has a very visible glass jaw. He's very 54 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: easily anger. If he feels disrespect a foreign leader disrespects him, 55 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: then that foreign leader is going to be in for trouble. Personally, 56 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: he's actually quite funny. He's got quite a good sense 57 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: of humor. Of course, he goes to very dangerous areas 58 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: with that humor sometimes, and he's certainly charismatic. He holds 59 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 2: a room very strongly, very clearly. But I would say 60 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: there are some differences being up close to Trump in 61 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: the first term compared to now James and that is 62 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: that here you can really see it in his face 63 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: almost he relishes the power he has this time more 64 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: so than he did in the first term. In the 65 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: first term, he didn't really know how to work believers 66 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: of power in Washington. He didn't really know how Washington worked. 67 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: Of course, he was a business person, and he had 68 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: a record turnover amongst his staff. He was being chased 69 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: by the special prosecutor over a range of issues, and 70 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: you could see he was like the apprentice part of 71 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: the part, basically the apprentice president. But now second time around, 72 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: you just see it in his face. He is in control. 73 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: He wants to be in control. He's backed by Republican 74 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: majorities in both houses of Congress, a solid election when 75 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: he knows the game. He's only got one term and 76 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: doesn't need to be re elected. He's appointed these amazing 77 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: disruptors to run the departments around Washington. And so I 78 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: think in that way, Trump is a different beast than 79 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 2: he was the first time. 80 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: Like Scaramucci's points that everyone ends up on the woodschipper, 81 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: and I think we all expected that, but it's not 82 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: happening as certainly not happening in anything like the piece 83 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: is it so the people he puts into Treasury or 84 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: Secretary of State or Commerce or whatever, it's relatively stable. 85 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: Then is it compared to the first year of the 86 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: first term of the first run. 87 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 2: Well, it's stable in the sense that he hasn't sacked 88 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: anyone yet, although mind you, he was very tended to 89 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: do so over the signal gays of controversy, of course. 90 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: But what he's done, of course, this is his way 91 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 2: of getting back at the swamp in Washington, is to 92 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: put people who don't like the departments to actually put 93 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 2: them as head of the departments. He's done that with 94 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: the FBI, has done that with Roight Kennedy and the 95 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 2: Health Department. And his idea is to basically challenge those 96 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 2: departments and move them into his line of thinking, if 97 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 2: you like. And so whether it's successful is a question 98 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: that's still to be answered. But that's a huge thing 99 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: that he's done, which he didn't in his first turn. 100 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to get too much into the thickets 101 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: of politics, because our listeners are interested in how this 102 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: affects their investing future and becaus the standout. The last time, 103 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: there was various people who were quite prominent in the 104 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: financial side of the Trump administration mark one this time, 105 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: though Mosque is so prominent. I just wanted to ask 106 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: you sort of a simple question, which is, do you 107 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: think Mosque would be as prominent this time next year? 108 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: No, I definitely don't. Why is that because I think 109 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 2: that there's not enough room for the egos to be 110 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: being so close to the things. I mean, I think 111 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 2: a lot of people have been surprised by how prominent 112 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: MUSC been early on, actually sat in on calls with 113 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: Ukraine's Zelensky and it's extraordinary stuff, really, And we are 114 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: taking bets in the newsroom. And how long he'll last? 115 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: I said six months, and I'm sticking to that. I 116 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: think the problem is going to be apart from egos, 117 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: James is the doge, the Trump's musk's task of cutting 118 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: massive amounts of spending from the federal government. Now, look, 119 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: he's doing that in a fairly robust and sometimes clumsy way, 120 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: cutting money to the wrong departments and having to restore them. 121 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: It's been fairly messy. But the trouble with that is 122 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: that we are now starting to see a backlash from 123 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: people A who are losing their jobs and B who 124 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: are scared of losing their jobs, and Musk is becoming 125 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: quite unpopular in the United States. There's a tax on 126 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: Tesla cars. It's really interesting to see how the mood 127 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 2: towards Musk is changing. And I think it will be 128 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 2: a very easy solution by Trump at some point in 129 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: time to say, Elon, thank you very much, we've had 130 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 2: enough of you. You can go, and that way Musk 131 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: goes and Trump doesn't get the blame for some of 132 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: these cuts. So I think we're going to see a 133 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: breakdown in this relationship within twelve months, well within twelve months. 134 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: Right, So some sort of a Machiavellian twist there that 135 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: you put someone in that was an impossible task. Really, 136 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: whoever goes in to cut up the government departments was 137 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: going to face fire and here it comes. Yeah, okay, 138 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: very interesting. Just also on that when people are talking 139 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: economics and Trump he was re elected. Wall Street eventually 140 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: sided with him late in the day. Maybe they knew 141 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: he was going to get in anyway, but the sort 142 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: of titans of Wall Street, Larry Fink and co. They 143 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: sided with him in the end, and their public explanation 144 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: of that was that he would bring in tax cuts, 145 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,119 Speaker 1: that he would bring in deregulation, but it's all about 146 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: tariffs right. So far this year and in this first 147 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: six months or so, the US has been the weakest 148 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: stock market in the world. In fact, it's fall and 149 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: five percent since the start of the year. It's lower 150 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: now than it was when Trump went in. As I said, 151 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: it's dragging Australia with it, of course as usual, which 152 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: basically mirrors that four or five percent off for the 153 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: year so far. Has the tariff's agenda, I will say 154 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: it run out of control, but it has completely dominated 155 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: the administration so far. Do you think he will ever 156 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: move to the other parts that people elected him for, 157 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: that the market elected him for, that war Street wanted. 158 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: I think he will. I think it will take a 159 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: bit of time because Trump mark Io has seemed in 160 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 2: such a rush to do everything all at once, from 161 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: tackling woke culture to closing the border to getting peace 162 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: in Ukraine and Gaza. So the more regular side of 163 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: being a president, as you mentioned, his election promises, deregulation, 164 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: tax cuts, basic economic reform have faded into the background, 165 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: and of course the only economic focus really has been 166 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: the tariffs. But I think they will come back into focus. 167 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: But of course, the considerations there will be impacted by 168 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: whatever tariff policy he settles on going to do to 169 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 2: determinal level of income that the government gets from those tariffs, 170 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 2: and that will flow into other aspects of economic policy. 171 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: So perhaps, to be charitable to Trump, he's trying to 172 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: solve the tariff problem first and then see what falls 173 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 2: out from that. But that it might be a bit 174 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: too charitable to suggest there's a grand plan here. But 175 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: I think that he will go back as a four 176 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: year term. We're only well less than one hundred days 177 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: into what so much has happened. I think he will 178 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: be forced to go back and look at some of 179 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: the more basic factors of being a president, and that includes, 180 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: of course trying to get prices down, which will be 181 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 2: a huge challenge for him. 182 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Okay, we'll take a short break. We'll be 183 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: back in the moment. Folks. Hello, Welcome back to The 184 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. My guest today is Cameron Stewart's 185 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: chief international correspondent of The Australian and something of a 186 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: veteran Trump watcher. One thing I wanted to ask you 187 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: is about people say you don't understand the US so well. 188 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: And of course I don to understand the US so well. 189 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: I've only ever taken holidays there like most people. But 190 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,599 Speaker 1: having said that, I read the Wall Street journal I 191 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: watched the news very closely. But what they say is 192 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: you don't understand the impact of Trump on the street 193 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: in the US that inside the US, it's a completely 194 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: different view. Inside the US, he speaks for people who 195 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: were never spoken for before. He had this extraordinary election 196 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: where he was not just re elected, but he had 197 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: stronger votes from all the various constituencies that you wouldn't expect. 198 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: So tell us what your impression of what Americans think 199 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: of Trump and how they view it as opposed to 200 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: how we view it Americans. 201 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: For example, I went to a lot of Trump rallies, 202 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: and his supporters there are very much as sort of 203 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: slice of the general support he has around the country, 204 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: which is strong in the regions and also in really 205 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: rural areas. It's interesting, Jimes because the people that go 206 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: to the rallies and the classic Trump supporters go along 207 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: and they just absolutely thrive on Trump's rhetoric that the 208 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: system is not working for them, and that's a system 209 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 2: across the board. Socially politically, they feel forgotten. They love 210 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 2: his promise to destroy the system, and he links it 211 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: very well with nationalism, which is a hugely potent force 212 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 2: out there in regional and rural America. So he has 213 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: a very potent mix that he sells to to people. 214 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: And look at I say so as in that's not 215 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: a fake thing. They certainly feel it very much. But 216 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: what he doesn't do he doesn't pay much attention to details. 217 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: He just said, we're going to make America great, We're 218 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: going to restore manufacturing, the markets are going to go well, 219 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: it's going to be fantastic. He doesn't go into the details. 220 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 2: And I think the interesting thing here is that he's 221 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: still that he support is falling. Trump support is falling 222 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 2: even amongst some of his supporters. And the question comes 223 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 2: when the details don't suit Trump, And that is a 224 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 2: I think when prices don't fall, because I think he's 225 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: going to have a real challenge to try and combat inflation. 226 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: What's less of inflation with the tariffs that he's. 227 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: Yes because they're inflationary, Yeah, yeah. 228 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: They're inflationary. And also when jobs are lost people, the 229 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: whole notion of Trump is will restore jobs, and he's 230 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: Elon Musk cutting tons of jobs, of course, and then 231 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: you've got the markets which are very rocky at the moment, 232 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: and if that led to job losses as well. So 233 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: I think that you're seeing a bit of a potential 234 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: reckoning from Trump supporters in relation to Trump at some point. 235 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: These are contemporary pools, are they, Cameron? Is that what 236 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: you're referring to? Yeah? 237 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 2: Right, yes, okay, yes, that's true. He's now only four 238 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: in ten Americans agree with his tariff policy and the 239 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: way he's going about the economy at the moment, so 240 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 2: that's not Yeah, so you know that's definitely less than 241 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: his elected number. So a lot of people are getting alienated. 242 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, what about the arrival of the billionaire? Is that 243 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: amazing photograph of the moll laned up Mark Zuckerberg and 244 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: Bezos Musk or basically standing in a line? Do you 245 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: think that sort of unlikely coalition? How will that play 246 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: out from here? 247 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: Well? I guess depends on how much Trump helps them 248 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: with their coffers and helps their business. Trump at the 249 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 2: moment is quite happy. It seems to be very libertarian 250 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: with the big tech titans, letting them do an awful 251 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: lot with their business and not really challenging them a lot, 252 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: and he is quite happy for them to not pull 253 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: back on social platforms. I think that they love the 254 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: Trump agenda at the moment. Again, reality may well bite 255 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: in that respect. I think that might be a bit 256 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: more of a temporary alliance, if you like. But it 257 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: certainly does help Trump to be in the good graces 258 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: of those enormously powerful. I mean, these are like the 259 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: railroad Titans, aren't They are the nineteen. 260 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: They are, absolutely, they are the modern day railroad barons. Absolutely. 261 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: But one thing that's and I know there's always this 262 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: sort of thing. Americans don't get satire. Americans don't get irony. 263 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: Do the Trump supporters genuine supporters that they are, and 264 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: many of them being basically Republican Party supporters who were 265 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: just who would be Republican voters in any event, and 266 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: Trump is just the latest iteration of who they would 267 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: vote for. But is there any sense of irony among 268 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 1: that supporters that there is a squad of billionaire as well? 269 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: In the show when the proposal was to drain the 270 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: swamp and all that. 271 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: It's a great question, James, But then again, how did 272 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: Trump a billionaire become the hero of the working class. 273 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: This is the phenomenal irony of the whole Maga movement, 274 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: is that he had a billionaire, never fought for his 275 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: country as a general or was a politician, which of 276 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 2: course previous presidents have always been that sort of milk. 277 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: Here's a guy, a businessman, taking over, and he's a billionaire, 278 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: He's got a gold skyscraper in New York City, and 279 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: yet he is seen as the man of the working 280 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: American and whereas the Democrats, the traditional Democrat party, are 281 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: seen now as a party of inner city elites. It's 282 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: an extraordinary flip. And Trump has done that. 283 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: Again and they re elected him on that. So there 284 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: was no basically any suspicion of that or questioning of 285 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: that was muted basically because he was re elected. 286 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: That's right. And would agree that he's doing exactly what 287 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: he promised to do. To give Trump his due, He's 288 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: not saying he's not lying about it. He's doing absolutely 289 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: what he promised he would do. He's just doing it 290 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: at full speed. 291 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: Right, So what do you think. I know it's very difficult, 292 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: but so here we are. This is the Week of Liberation, 293 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: Day of the tariffs. Australia will be affected to some degree, 294 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: but I suppose the eye popping tariffs, So of things 295 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: like the twenty five percent on cars for instance, going 296 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: into the US and general motors and forward, you would 297 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: think that they would be going up in the stock market. 298 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: You would think he's doing them a favor, but they've 299 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: been falling. Actually, how do you think is going to 300 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: pan out midyear? You were talking about the first hundred days. 301 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: What are the sort of questions that will dominate the 302 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: Trump administration for the rest of the year. 303 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: Look, I think with as far as Trump's concern it's 304 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: interesting his second term on tariffs is fairly different to 305 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 2: his first term on tariffs. Of course, he was a 306 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: big tariff guy in his first term, and people often 307 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: forget terroriffs he put on China. He's always been susceptible 308 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: to that. But this time around, and this is what 309 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 2: I think has shaken so many allies, including Australia, is 310 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: that he really is a different beast on tariff's. He 311 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: really has come out this term with a sense that 312 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: America has been wronged, and that's capital A and capital W. 313 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: The sense of grievance is really driving his tariff policy 314 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: this time he sees them very much as nationalistic, almost 315 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: a tool of vengeance in a way that he didn't 316 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: in the first term. And I think that's why, of course, 317 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: we saw Australia fail on the geinting exemption from the 318 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: still and all a millium tariffs recently, whereas they've got 319 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: that same exemption in twenty eighteen. And the bottom line 320 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: I think there is that Trump is just a different 321 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 2: beast when it comes to tariff's this time around. And frankly, 322 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 2: I think if the same Australians were running the show 323 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: as we're running the show, then it's Malcolm Turnbull, Julie 324 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: Bishop and Joe Hockey as the three key players. I 325 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 2: think Australis too would not have got an exemption this 326 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: time around. That's sound different. I think Trump is on 327 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: That's interesting. 328 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So they've become core stitch And as 329 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: you said, to some extent, that's the explanation, isn't it 330 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: for basically turning against what we're allies? Who are allies? 331 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: But this idea that how could he possibly turn against 332 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: his own allies? But that's the explanation that the allies 333 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: have let the US down. 334 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: That's right. Absolutely, it's the ally's fault and he's getting 335 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 2: them back, but he is incredibly erratic with it. It's 336 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: interesting he's committed to tariffs to a large degree, but 337 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,239 Speaker 2: he's still a bit skittish on them. And I think 338 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 2: this is fascinating for Australians to watch. It's very disturbing, 339 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 2: of course if you have a lot of investments. But 340 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: he imposed twenty five percent tariffs on Mexico and Canada 341 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 2: and then of course the stock market went, whoa, we 342 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: dived and he delayed them for thirty days, and we've 343 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 2: got this mystery on I think Thursday, Australian time, of 344 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: what he's going to do with this Liberation Day, which 345 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: I see one of his former aide, Steve Bannon, wants 346 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 2: to turn into a public holiday. So it's going to 347 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: be fascinated to see exactly what he does at that 348 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: point in time. I think the one thing that actually 349 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 2: scared Trump James is the stock market. He does not 350 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: want to see a great dive on Wall Street. He's 351 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 2: one of the few presidents you might recall in his 352 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: first journ that actually linked stock market's success to his 353 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: own policies. Other presidents don't do that market still. 354 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: But the market's went very well in his first one 355 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: hundred days last time. 356 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: That's right, and so he thumped his chest at that time. 357 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 2: I recalled it. What he's saying this is, look at me. 358 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: I'm a great president. The market loves me. Now the 359 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: market doesn't like him at the moment. And if the 360 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: market starts to hate him, then I think you might 361 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: see him pulling back on some tariffs. And I think 362 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 2: the way he will do that will be in a 363 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 2: way that doesn't lose face. And that would be, say, 364 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: for example, with Australia, when he meets the Australian Prime 365 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: Minister in Washington, they have dinner together and everything, and 366 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,959 Speaker 2: you have a sort of exemption given on the one country. 367 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 2: I think that might be the way that Trump goes backwards, 368 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: if he wants to go backwards down the track. 369 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: Okay, very interesting. Yeah, And that whole change of tone 370 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: where you can start to give exceptions to the policy 371 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: that you've announced, it gives you some regal room. Okay, 372 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: very interesting. We'll take a little break. We've got some 373 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: very good questions, including one from Rosie which I've kept 374 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: for Cameron because I knew he was coming on the 375 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: show back in the moment. Hello, and welcome back to 376 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: The Australian's Money Puzzle. I'm James Kirby and I'm talking 377 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: to Cameron Stuart. Cameron, by the way, is the international 378 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: affairs correspondent on The Australian and someone I have worked 379 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: with on and off for a long time. I think 380 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: roughly nineteen ninety three would have been the first day 381 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 1: I saw him in the office of The Australian. So 382 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: that will tell you how long ago it was. That 383 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: not that we've been there ever since. By the way, 384 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: We've all done interesting things. But here we are. Here 385 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: we are, many years later, back back here. Okay, Now 386 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: the question is from Rosie. Thanks for your podcast so informative, 387 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: keeps things in perspective and provides me with the reliable 388 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: financial news I could most reliable financial news I could 389 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: ask for. Thank you, Rosie. I don't normally read out 390 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: those first parts, but that one was interesting. Okay, here's 391 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: the question. I have a question about Trump, and I 392 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: was interested. I've noted Trump seems very interested in legitimizing 393 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency and has recently established an official strategic Bitcoin reserve. 394 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: That's right, Previously, Trump has seemed very concerned, but share 395 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: markets are making sure they're strong right now, he seems 396 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: not to care about that. I wondered if Trump possibly 397 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: doesn't care about markets tanking because he's more interested in 398 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: boosting the value of crypto. Is that too cynical? Nothing 399 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: is too cynical, Rosie. We'll just put the story, We'll 400 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: put the question straight to camera about crypto and the 401 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: strategic reserve. That was extraordinary, wasn't it that he would 402 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: first of all, he was so pro crypto. Secondly, we'll 403 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: just put the whole crazy thing about his own tokens 404 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: to one side for the moment, because it's too important 405 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: really to be distracted. How important is crypto to him? 406 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: Is there something more going on than we might think. 407 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know. I'm not well qualified to comment 408 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 2: on Trump's crypto policies, but I do think he's very 409 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: worried about the market and very influenced by the market. 410 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: So I would disagree with that aspect of Rosies. And 411 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: now that's a so question radio. 412 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay, very good. There you are, Rosie not 413 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: being taken very seriously by Cameron on that one. And 414 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: I think probably I would agree there too, that the 415 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: markets themselves would be so so much more important than crypto. 416 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: And in any event, Rosie crypto is correlated now to markets, 417 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: completely correlated. So basically, if the markets are good, crypto 418 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: is good, and vice versa. So that would all feed 419 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: into that, all right, Just to finish off, I have 420 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: a very interesting piece of corresponders from NIL. I just 421 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: read it briefly. I'm lucky enough to be a member 422 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: of a defined benefits superannuation scheme, and I acknowledge I 423 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: have substantial superbalance that's not affected by the market. The 424 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: benefit is defined. What frustrates me is how defined benefit 425 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: funds seem to be talked about all the time as 426 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: some supreme benefit only for old members and never the employer. 427 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: The returns are magical and can't be obtained by younger employees, apparently. 428 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: And then the point, all he's life, he paid seventeen 429 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: percent of his salary into a defined benefit fund. And 430 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: this Cameron, all the people you deal with, all those 431 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: senior bureaucrasts that you deal with, and all those senior 432 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: army and Navy people, they'd all beyond these defined benefits. 433 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: And if the stock market crashes, they don't care. But 434 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: here's the point Neil makes that that he says it 435 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: puts seventeen percent in all the time when you think 436 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: about it, we don't write by low. It's still as 437 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: we speak today, it's eleven and a half and used 438 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: to be used to be like three or four percent 439 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: one time. But the point he makes is this, it 440 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: seems to me, with good prudent investment management and long 441 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: term membership and personal contributions, that a defined benefit fund 442 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: can be a winner for both sides employer employee. And 443 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is the only difference I 444 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: see between identifying benefit fund and a normal fund is 445 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: who wears the risk over any reasonable length of time. 446 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: It seems the returns of an accumulation type fund are 447 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: often better than a conservative defined benefit fund, and if 448 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: people were prepared to invest sixteen percent of their income 449 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: over for years, they could accrue similar benefits. Great point, Neil. 450 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: Fair enough. We're always making fun. We're always ribbing you guys, 451 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 1: probably because we'd love to be you and we wouldn't 452 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: have to worry about our super and we wouldn't care 453 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: if Donald Trump crashes the markets, because we'd have a 454 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: defined benefit. That point stands, but it's also very true 455 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: that if I put seventeen percent in since I was 456 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: twenty one, I'd have a lot more money in super 457 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: than I have today, and so would you. Cameron. All Right, Hey, 458 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: thank you very much for being on the show. 459 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 2: Great to have you, pleasure, Thanks James. 460 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: Great to have Cameron Stewart there on the show today. 461 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: And of course keep an eye on what happens next 462 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: on Liberation Day public holiday. Huh. I supposed to's been 463 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: suggested by Steve Bennon, so that probably kills it off 464 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: immediately as an idea. Okay, the email is the money 465 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: puzzle at the Australian dot com dot au. Talk to 466 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: you soon.