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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: You are tuned into the podcast from Body and Soul

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Speaker 2: called Healthy Ish with me Felicity Halley, and to celebrate

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Speaker 2: Pride Month, we're talking about the rise in women dating

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Speaker 2: women and if you're curious how to make the first move.

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Speaker 2: I am joined by relationships and sex therapist for Womanizer,

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Speaker 2: Christine Raife. She joins me in the studio. If you

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Speaker 2: do more from Christine, make sure you're listening to extra

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Speaker 2: Healthy Ish, where we have a really good chat about orgasms,

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Speaker 2: blended orgasms and perhaps why you should focus on pleasure

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Speaker 2: and not the end result. You can grab that wherever

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Speaker 2: you get your podcasts. Christine, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, it's been a while, it has it feels

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Speaker 1: like five minutes or twelve months.

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Speaker 2: You're officially a regular now. Yeah, yeah, thank you for

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Speaker 2: thank you for coming in again. Now the big question,

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Speaker 2: why are so many more women dating women?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, isn't it. Yeah, yeah it is if

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Speaker 1: we think so. I don't know if you've heard of

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Speaker 1: the term compet no, no, so, compulsory heterosexuality. So we

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Speaker 1: can think about this in the context of our traditional

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Speaker 1: social structures, where patriarchal, heteronormative we've sort of always been

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Speaker 1: told that women are innately sexually and romantically attracted to

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Speaker 1: men and that that's who they want to be with.

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Speaker 1: But actually, because we're having sort of more social acceptance

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Speaker 1: to queer identities, there really is such an openness now

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Speaker 1: for people to be questioning, hang on, am I actually heterosexual?

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Speaker 1: Or have I just been told that I am?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I like that, I mean, and I mean I

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Speaker 2: love that we've normalized it. I just have to. I've

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Speaker 2: read this great book it's called Eve. I don't know

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Speaker 2: whether you've read it. I haven't read it, but it's fantastic,

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Speaker 2: and it talks a lot about female sexuality throughout evolution

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Speaker 2: and how they were probably many times where you know,

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Speaker 2: we would procreate with males, but then we'd be to females. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously scientists have struggled with this whole concept,

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Speaker 2: you know, from an evolutionary sense. Are we born or

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Speaker 2: are we bred? Can it change during one's lifetime? What's

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Speaker 2: your take?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So, I think when we talk about sexuality we

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Speaker 1: kind of look at it from three different dimensions. So

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Speaker 1: sexual orientation, so who we're attracted to, sexual behaviors, who

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Speaker 1: are having sex with? And sexual identity so how we're

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Speaker 1: either outwardly or inwardly identifying, so that label that we

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Speaker 1: put on ourselves if we choose to. So my take

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Speaker 1: on this, and I think that scientists can agree that

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Speaker 1: there's biological components to sexual orientation, but that political, cultural,

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Speaker 1: social factors can potentially influence our sexual behaviors and our

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Speaker 1: sexual identity. So you know, you think about yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: it's not that more people are being born non hetero, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that more people are now potentially behaving non hetero or

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Speaker 1: identifying in a way that is not heterosexual woman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for many of us, it is a bit

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Speaker 2: of a shift in mindset, isn't it. Or perhaps it's

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Speaker 2: a release. I mean, I actually just think of Natalie

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Speaker 2: Bassiwaye as an example, and I you know, I've interviewed

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Speaker 2: her many times over my career, and I've just I

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Speaker 2: admire her just well coming out now and being you know,

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Speaker 2: she's obviously gone through marriage, divorce, well not I don't

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Speaker 2: know if she's divorced yet, but had kids and lived

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Speaker 2: that normal life I say in their quotes, Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then she's just out there living her best life, living

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Speaker 2: her truth, living her truth, and it's actually wonderful to watch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what about.

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Speaker 2: For women who feel pressure to be that they're not

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Speaker 2: gay enough? You know, if someone's thinking, okay, well where

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Speaker 2: do I sit on this spectrum? How do I feel?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So, spectrum is the perfect word for this, because

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Speaker 1: there is a scale called the Kinsey Scale, which and

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know the Kinsey Institute, but

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Speaker 1: they've done a lot of sexual research, so they look

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Speaker 1: at sexuality existing on a spectrum. So from zero, which

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Speaker 1: is completely heterosexual, to six, which is exclusively hot and sexual. Realistically,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of folk who fall between the one

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Speaker 1: to five categories. That might be like a curiosity and openness,

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Speaker 1: with bisexuality sort of being in the middle. So yes, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: biphobia does still exist, and so there is a lot

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Speaker 1: of social isolation for people in the who identifies by

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Speaker 1: within the queer community. They do have higher instances of

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Speaker 1: mental health issues and feeling that isolation. So I think

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Speaker 1: you do you is really the response to this. There

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Speaker 1: is no such thing as not gay enough. Everyone exists

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Speaker 1: on a spectrum. So there are people who are going

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Speaker 1: to be super gay and there are people who are

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Speaker 1: going to be in between. So really, just like finding

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Speaker 1: a community of people that accept you and also just

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Speaker 1: acknowledging Yeah, like every single person sexuality is slightly different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And it's almost like taking a deep dive

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Speaker 2: into what you feel. And so perhaps if you are,

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Speaker 2: you know, identify as a woman and you're thinking about, okay,

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Speaker 2: maybe I'm not where I thought I was on the scale.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you might be in a relationship with a man.

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Speaker 1: You probably are, you probably haven't been for a long time.

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Speaker 2: We start like if I'm a client coming to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so really it comes to like, okay, just leaning

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Speaker 1: in and showing curiosity toward yourself, like who and what

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Speaker 1: are you attracted to? So we might explore things like

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Speaker 1: the porn that you've watched or things that you fantasize about.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't even necessarily need to you know, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily state that someone has a sexual orientation if

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Speaker 1: they watch lesbian porn, for example. Yeah, but I really

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Speaker 1: would encourage people to start to consume, or think about,

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Speaker 1: or fantasize or reflect on things that they're really interested

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Speaker 1: in for themselves. So it might be listening to sort

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Speaker 1: of queer audio erotica, or engaging with queer community, attending

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Speaker 1: queer dating events. Obviously if your partner, if you are

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Speaker 1: in a little bat shit yep, probably some conversations around that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously a therapist involved if you think that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be concerned, if you're actually wanting to explore,

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Speaker 1: then we're sort of looking at like non monogamous dynamics. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So obviously getting support if that's the case. But it

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Speaker 1: may also be like, as an example, we might have

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Speaker 1: attraction to certain things or certain activities or behaviors, but

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Speaker 1: we may never want to actually do those things. And

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Speaker 1: that's super common.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and I think your advice on seeing a

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Speaker 2: therapist is as really important if you are in a

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Speaker 2: relationship and want to exploit it. Can I just throw

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Speaker 2: another thing in this conversation? Why can I say? Because

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Speaker 2: of the mental load sometimes when you have so much

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Speaker 2: going on, whether you've got kids or not, whether you're working,

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Speaker 2: there's so much life and there's so much washing that

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Speaker 2: doesn't get done. And sometimes you think, as a woman

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Speaker 2: identifying as a woman, I love my husband, but damn it,

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Speaker 2: I'd be married to another woman who appreciate this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, certainly, like if we sort of look

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Speaker 1: at the stats around women in hetero relationships, carrying the

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Speaker 1: line's share of the household an emotional load. You know,

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Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense that people be like, well,

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Speaker 1: hang on a second, maybe there is opportunity here for

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Speaker 1: me to look men should be more equal in the relationships.

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Speaker 1: So the response, don't change your sexual identity necessarily because

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Speaker 1: of that, but yeah, absolutely, Like these are things that

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Speaker 1: are all kind of questions and opportunities for us to

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Speaker 1: reflect on what we want.

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Speaker 2: Do you are you seeing more people wanting to explore

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Speaker 2: where they fit on the spectrum? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, a lot more people identifying is queer and

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Speaker 1: even like different gender identities or sort of. They then

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Speaker 1: pronouns like a lot of people exploring those things where

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Speaker 1: I would say when I was in school, that was

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Speaker 1: like not a thing.

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Speaker 2: What about if a friend comes to us and says

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Speaker 2: that what sort of advice could we we give to

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Speaker 2: them and be a supportive friend?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, just asking them questions, being curious and also

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Speaker 1: like celebrating them, right, Like if you are a woman

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Speaker 1: identifying who's thinking about exploring something different, like I'm celebrating you,

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Speaker 1: Like that's amazing that you're even starting to question and

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Speaker 1: reflect on. Ye. The social constructs and like, is that

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Speaker 1: the reason why I've kind of assigned myself into this

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Speaker 1: identity or is there something else? So just really like

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Speaker 1: supporting your friend whatever they choose to say and however

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Speaker 1: they choose to identify, or whoever they choose to have

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Speaker 1: sex with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Christie, thank you for coming on healthy Ish.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for tuning into this chat with Christine. If

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Speaker 2: you did enjoy it, jump on rate and review it.

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Speaker 2: Or you can subscribe to this podcast or share this

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Speaker 2: app with someone else, a special someone or just a friend,

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Speaker 2: someone that you're curious about. Anyway, I'll leave it with you.

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Speaker 2: Anything else, you can grab our print edition which is

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Speaker 2: out in your local Sunday paper, follow us and socials,

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Speaker 2: jump online, body insult dot com, dot you, thank you

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Speaker 2: for joining us again, and stay healthy