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Speaker 1: Apodja Production. Well, welcome back everybody to the Missing Matter podcast.

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Speaker 1: I bet you all thought this was going to be

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Speaker 1: the last episode, as we said last week, but we've

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Speaker 1: decided we need to do another, maybe one or two

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Speaker 1: episodes before we get to the end of the season.

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Speaker 1: So today I want to start by bringing awareness to

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Speaker 1: a new missing person's case in the northern New South

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Speaker 1: Wales region. Her name is Yvonne Ware.

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Speaker 2: We are seeking public assistance in our attempts to locate

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Speaker 2: missing person Yvonne Were. She's a seventy three year old

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Speaker 2: lady who was reported missing on the twenty first of

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Speaker 2: February after failing to return home to the previous evening

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Speaker 2: to care for her kids, which was extremely out of character.

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Speaker 1: Aged seventy three, Yvonne was last seen at her residence

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Speaker 1: on Campbell's Road in Dungey, near Muwoollombar on the Tweed Coast.

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Speaker 1: She's been missing since the nineteenth of February this year.

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Speaker 1: Driving her car. She was noted going to the petrol

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Speaker 1: station where she took out some money and bought some

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Speaker 1: orange juice. Seems her car has gone back to her

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Speaker 1: home and she has not been seen since. Her car

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Speaker 1: is a gold colored Ford Escape SUV with New South

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Speaker 1: Wales registration EWS two eight P for Peter. A mother

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Speaker 1: of three. Yvonne is an NDIS care and the family

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Speaker 1: is asking on her Facebook page that they have set

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Speaker 1: up find Yvonne. Did she work for you or did

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Speaker 1: she care for someone you know? Do you have any

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Speaker 1: dashcam footage around the nineteenth of February that could potentially

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Speaker 1: help find Yvonne. Last Saturday night, I received a message

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Speaker 1: in messenger from Yvonne's daughter. It read, Hi, Sally, someone

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Speaker 1: mentioned your name to contact regarding publicity for my mum's

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Speaker 1: missing person's case. My heart sank. It was getting late

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Speaker 1: and I was actually going out for dinner with Chris

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Speaker 1: and Ella and Darcy, which is a rare thing for us,

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Speaker 1: but we had a late booking and I started messaging

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Speaker 1: and asked her if we could chat. I had received

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Speaker 1: a text message from a journalist who's been helping me

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Speaker 1: share my story for over two decades now as I

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Speaker 1: was driving to Grafton recently, advising that the old detective

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Speaker 1: and oh I see on my mom's case was now

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Speaker 1: working on a new missing person's case. This was Yvonne.

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Speaker 1: So I had already looked into Yvon's case online to

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Speaker 1: see what I could do to try and help. After

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Speaker 1: a few texts back and forth, I did offer to

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Speaker 1: have a quick call before I went out for dinner.

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Speaker 1: She asked me straight up, would I be recording her.

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Speaker 1: I said absolutely not, this is a safe space, and

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Speaker 1: we jumped on a call. I asked her about that comment,

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Speaker 1: as it's not something that's generally first thing that comes

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Speaker 1: to mind when you have a missing person's case, but

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Speaker 1: she alerted me that her sister had recently been spoken

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Speaker 1: to by someone in radio, and next thing she knew

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Speaker 1: that conversation was being aired without her consent or knowledge

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Speaker 1: that she was being recorded. I just want to preface

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Speaker 1: here how important it is if you are in journalism,

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Speaker 1: or if you're working in this space, how vital it

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Speaker 1: is that you actually make sure that you get permission

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Speaker 1: to do things. Because we work really hard to make

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Speaker 1: sure that everything that we record is verified and controlled

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Speaker 1: by the people that were having in our studios to

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Speaker 1: come and talk to you and tell you these stories,

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Speaker 1: it's really distressing for the families and puts a lot

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Speaker 1: of distrust, I guess, in those people who are talking

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Speaker 1: to us when these sorts of things are happening. It's

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Speaker 1: a very sensitive topic and we don't want the trauma

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Speaker 1: of a missing person being you know, and someone recording

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Speaker 1: somebody and then putting it out in the media without

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Speaker 1: their permission. It's really really important. So in that call

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Speaker 1: with Yvonne's daughter, I offered to do a bonus episode

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Speaker 1: so we could try and bring some fresh awareness to

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Speaker 1: her mum's case. We chatted for about twenty minutes and

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Speaker 1: I suggested to her that potentially I could try and

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Speaker 1: do something on the Missing Matter podcast to help her mum,

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Speaker 1: to which she was very grateful, and she asked if

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Speaker 1: I could send her what I would be able to

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Speaker 1: put out, and instead, I said, look, how about you

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Speaker 1: write to me what you would like me to say,

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Speaker 1: and I'll read it out word perfect to make sure

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Speaker 1: that you're having complete control of the narrative as to

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Speaker 1: what we're saying. So I'm going to read from my

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Speaker 1: phone the text message from Yvonne's daughter. On February nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, seventy three year old Yvonne vanished from

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Speaker 1: her residence at a rural property on Campbell's Road in Dunge,

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Speaker 1: New South Wales. Just outside of Woolenbar, where she had

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Speaker 1: been quietly running a small hobby farm for twenty three years.

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Speaker 1: Nothing about her disappearance makes sense. That afternoon followed a

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Speaker 1: familiar routine. Yvonne returned home from an art class in

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Speaker 1: mo Woolenbar. The clothes she wore were soaking in the

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Speaker 1: washing machine, something she always did. Her boots that she

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Speaker 1: wore that day to Tafe were muddy, as she had

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Speaker 1: worn them in the chicken pens. They were neatly placed

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Speaker 1: by the door, along with her other shoes and boots. Inside,

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Speaker 1: there were small signs of normal life. She had her

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Speaker 1: folded on the bed ready for the next day, and

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Speaker 1: the bed was made. Her phone activity showed she'd watched

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Speaker 1: a few art tutorials on YouTube. She'd listened to a

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Speaker 1: voicemail believed to be from a tire company in Tweedheads,

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Speaker 1: returning her call. Then at exactly four forty six pm,

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Speaker 1: her phone activity stopped. Yvonne was a creature of habit, careful, methodical,

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Speaker 1: the kind of person who locked her farm gate the

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Speaker 1: same precise way every time. But on this day something

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Speaker 1: was different. The gate wasn't locked the way it was

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Speaker 1: always locked by the next morning, her car was gone.

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Speaker 1: No confirmed sightings leaving the area, no number plate recognition hits,

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Speaker 1: no calls, no messages. All that remain are a few

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Speaker 1: unconfirmed sightings. Thursday night, her car was reportably seen parked

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Speaker 1: on the road left side of Dungae Creek Road near road.

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Speaker 1: Then the following day, at one pm, a driver reported

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Speaker 1: seeing a vehicle that looked like Yvonne's parked off the

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Speaker 1: side of the road outside of the Husk Distillery on

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Speaker 1: Dulgarian Road. The vehicle pulled out in front of the

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Speaker 1: witness and drove in the middle of the road toward

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Speaker 1: mccaulay's road, breaking suddenly at the end, then making a

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Speaker 1: U turn. Her phone had been connected to the Hospital

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Speaker 1: Hill and Springbrook towers on the nineteenth and twentieth of February,

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Speaker 1: consistent with her not leaving the local area on the

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Speaker 1: New South Wales and Queensland border where she lived. Then

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Speaker 1: at one twenty pm on Friday the twentieth, it went silent.

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Speaker 1: Yvonne had no reason to leave that night or anywhere

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Speaker 1: else the next morning to go other than Taife. She

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Speaker 1: would never leave her animals. She would always contact her

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Speaker 1: family if she felt unwell or troubled. Her bank accounts

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Speaker 1: remain untouched. So what happened on that quite rural property.

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Speaker 1: Was someone else there that afternoon? Who locked the gate?

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Speaker 1: Did she go to bed that night or was she

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Speaker 1: taken before she had the chance. Why were her shoes

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Speaker 1: left behind? And why did she stop using her phone

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Speaker 1: at four forty six pm. Remember the name Yvonne. Her

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Speaker 1: family is searching for answers. They are not giving up.

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Speaker 1: Yvonne has three children and I've confirmed with her daughter

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Speaker 1: that the three of them are working closely together to

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Speaker 1: do everything they possibly can to find their mum. In

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Speaker 1: speaking with her daughter, which I'm not going to say

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Speaker 1: any names, just for their privacy, she alerted me that

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Speaker 1: the police are doing a really good job, that there's

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Speaker 1: been pole air, they have done searchers in the river,

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Speaker 1: that they had located three cars in the river, and

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Speaker 1: that spiked my interest again because we also have a

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Speaker 1: situation with other cars being found in rivers in the

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Speaker 1: northern New South Wales region. At this moment, there's quite

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Speaker 1: a lot of information and new reports coming out with

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Speaker 1: the Balini News Daily. So let's just wind back to

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Speaker 1: the fifteenth of March. I was sent by a Ballan,

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Speaker 1: a local who is still working quite closely with me

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Speaker 1: on my mum's case. A snippet from this newspaper about

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Speaker 1: a bone that had been located in Ballina. The heading

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Speaker 1: is missing person with a body if I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: it laying out partially over the water but partially on ground,

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Speaker 1: and it reads remains found on Richmond riverbank yet to

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Speaker 1: be identified as investigation continues. I'm just going to read

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Speaker 1: a little bit of this because I'm going to be honest.

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Speaker 1: Caused me a little bit of stress being the location

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Speaker 1: of this bone, and I started to do a little

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Speaker 1: bit of research myself into what was happening about it

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Speaker 1: as media started to report. So this was reported by

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Speaker 1: police and Crime Reporter on the fifteenth of March twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six. Police say forensic testing has not yet confirmed

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Speaker 1: the identity of human remains discovered on the bank of

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Speaker 1: the Richmond River earlier this year. The remains were found

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Speaker 1: on February sixteenth after a fisherman spotted them near a

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Speaker 1: river bank at Forest Park and alerted authorities. I just

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Speaker 1: want to say there that my research told me that

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Speaker 1: it was actually a young couple in their twenties and

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Speaker 1: They actually were fishing when they found the bone and

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Speaker 1: it was wedged in between rocks, is what they told

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Speaker 1: the media. Police confirmed specialists forensic examinations were underway to

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Speaker 1: determine the identity of the remains. A month later, there

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Speaker 1: has still been no public explanation for the delay. At

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Speaker 1: the time of the discovery, Ballen, a deputy mayor and

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Speaker 1: retired police detective Damian Luhne, said such forensic investigations are

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Speaker 1: normally expedited. He said, I know police will fast track

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Speaker 1: this and try to find out as quickly as possible

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Speaker 1: who it may be or who it is. Three days

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Speaker 1: after the remains were discovered, police divers recovered a vehicle

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Speaker 1: from Richmond River that appeared to match the silver Honda

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Speaker 1: CRV driven by missing Ballana woman Cecily Spires. Miss Spires

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Speaker 1: was last seen in Ballina around four pm on October

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Speaker 1: eighteen last year. Police issued their first public appeal for

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Speaker 1: information on December twenty nine. At the time, Miss spires mother,

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Speaker 1: Carmen Watson, said the timing of the appeal was decided

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Speaker 1: by the family. She said that the delay was intended

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Speaker 1: to avoid publicity during the school term and the lead

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Speaker 1: up to Christmas for misspires teenage daughter. Miss Watson also

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Speaker 1: said Miss Spires had disappeared for long periods in the past,

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Speaker 1: returning later safely. Police have not publicly confirmed whether the

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Speaker 1: remains found near Richmond River belonged to Miss Spires. Weeks

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Speaker 1: after the discovery, forensic testing is continuing. Investigations remain ongoing.

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Speaker 1: Anyone with information that may assist investigators urged to contact

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Speaker 1: crime Stoppers on one three hundred, Triple eight, Triple zero.

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Speaker 1: That was not the first article that I had read,

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Speaker 1: but these are what are coming out and this has

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Speaker 1: a picture of the silver Honda CRV. Now, as you

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Speaker 1: do when you're living in this space, I googled the

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Speaker 1: location that was noted in another article, which was the

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Speaker 1: first one that I read about the bone being located.

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Speaker 1: I was a little shocked to see the proximity to

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Speaker 1: other key locations that involved my mum's case. I also

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Speaker 1: spoke to my friend Kim Marshall, who was the sister

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Speaker 1: of bromin Winfield, and made her aware. She lives in Tasmania,

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Speaker 1: so outside of hearing it on the news, she hadn't

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Speaker 1: heard that there had been a bone found either, and

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Speaker 1: of course her sister Bromlin is also missing in Ballina,

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Speaker 1: so I sent her the article that I received and

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Speaker 1: I have received since as this is ongoing. Then, on

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Speaker 1: the twenty fifth of March, another article written by Balina

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Speaker 1: News Daily's Rod Bruham wrote, Ballana Shire Mayor Sharon Cadwaller

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Speaker 1: plans to meet with New so f Welles's Police Commissioner

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Speaker 1: Mal Lanyon this week to directly take up concerns over

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Speaker 1: car rex possibly containing missing persons left at the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the river. This move comes after Ballina News Daily

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Speaker 1: revealed claims that multiple cars may be submerged in local waterways,

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Speaker 1: raising concerns about missing person investigations and search methods and

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Speaker 1: river health. There is mounting community concern about what may

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Speaker 1: lie on the riverbed, with local fishermen reporting several submerged

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Speaker 1: vehicles detected using SONA. The issue has gained urgency flowing

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Speaker 1: recent developments, including the recovery of the vehicle linked to

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Speaker 1: missing woman Sue Connors and another vehicle pulled from Richmond

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Speaker 1: River as part of the Sicily Spyers investigation. At the time,

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Speaker 1: long running cases such of that of Ellen Wilson, whose

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Speaker 1: vehicle has never been found, have renewed focus on where

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Speaker 1: the waterways were adequately searched. This article goes on and

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Speaker 1: discusses and I'm really happy that Sharon Codweller has taken

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Speaker 1: steps to bring this attention to the Police Commision in

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Speaker 1: New South Wales and more so, I'm very happy to

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Speaker 1: announce that they have listened and they are taking action.

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Speaker 1: Have a listened to this report.

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Speaker 3: Commissioner Cadwalader said if those vehicles are in the river,

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Speaker 3: they should be investigated. She said the issue was also environmental,

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Speaker 3: pointing to debris still sitting in the river following the

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two floods. Deputy Mayor Damian Luhne has welcomed

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Speaker 3: the announcement that additional police resources were also on the

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Speaker 3: way to the region.

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Speaker 1: The former detective.

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Speaker 3: Told last week's meeting of Ballana Shire Council that he'd

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Speaker 3: attended a briefing with Richmond Police District leadership, where officers

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Speaker 3: confirmed new recruits would soon be deployed. Commissioner Lune said

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Speaker 3: they'll be getting new twelve probationary constables from the Goulburn

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Speaker 3: Police Academy. It's not yet known how many will be

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Speaker 3: stationed in Ballana. The recruits will be spread across the district,

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Speaker 3: which includes Ballan and Lismore and Casino areas. Sources have

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Speaker 3: previously told Balana News Daily that actual frontline policing numbers

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Speaker 3: covering Ballanashire are comparable to nineteen eighties levels, despite the

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Speaker 3: population having roughly doubled. Those sources say increasing demand, more

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Speaker 3: complex policing tasks, and rising administrative pressures have placed additional

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Speaker 3: strain on existing officers, with some currently on stress leave.

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Speaker 3: Commissioner Cadwallader said any increase in police numbers would be

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Speaker 3: a positive step for the community. She said stronger resourcing

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Speaker 3: would help deliver better policing outcomes across Balanaeshire.

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Speaker 1: Why am I bringing this up in this episode. I'm

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Speaker 1: bringing it up because I have not had verification from this.

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Speaker 1: I was told this information by someone who is helping

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Speaker 1: to look through on that the police had found three

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Speaker 1: cars in the Richmond River over the weekend. But I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping that that is the case, and I'm hoping that

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Speaker 1: they are doing the necessary checks, that they're noting down

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Speaker 1: the registration to make the model the local exactly where

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Speaker 1: that car has been found, Because even when I was

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Speaker 1: in Grafton recently, there was chat about the fact that

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Speaker 1: an article had just come out with regards to Sue Connors,

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Speaker 1: who that week her vehicle had been located, and that

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Speaker 1: local fishermen were reporting and talking to their families about

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Speaker 1: the fact that they were finding cars in the water

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Speaker 1: and what should be done about that. In my next episode,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually talking to Jason Selsi who you'll remember was

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Speaker 1: my very first guest actually on the Missing Matter Nicola Matters,

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Speaker 1: and he's in Tasmania and he's been working with a

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Speaker 1: gentleman we refer to him as diver Dan, who has

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Speaker 1: been helping Jason and more recently did another huge search

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Speaker 1: with Jason in Tasmania searching waterways trying to locate his

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Speaker 1: dad's car, Nicola, who was last scene driving. So I

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Speaker 1: want to say in the next episode, I'm talking to

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Speaker 1: Joeanne green Cell who also joined me on the Missing

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Speaker 1: Matter podcast, Andrew Matters, about her boyfriend who went missing

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Speaker 1: forty years ago from Yamber. He was driving his car

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Speaker 1: at night in the dark and has never been seen

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Speaker 1: again since. And I pointed out in that episode when

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Speaker 1: Joe and I were talking that to get to Gamba

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Speaker 1: from the Pacific Highway, which is the main Highway that

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Speaker 1: runs from Sydney all the way up to Brisbane to

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Speaker 1: get into Gamber. You're actually passing through a lot of water.

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Speaker 1: When I say that, you're passing through a lot of

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Speaker 1: roads that are very close to water and some cases meters.

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Speaker 1: So if someone had had an accident, who knows what's happened.

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Speaker 1: They could have hit an animal and swerved off the

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Speaker 1: road and gone into the water. And are those waterways checked?

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Speaker 1: Have they been checked? Is anyone looking? Because I know

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Speaker 1: in my case there are cars in question and we

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Speaker 1: don't know where some of those cars are. And people

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Speaker 1: have sent me messages saying I believe your mum's in

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Speaker 1: the boot of a car and this she's in this location.

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Speaker 1: All very hard for us to manage the thought of,

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Speaker 1: but it's our reality. And I know. My next guest

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Speaker 1: who I had a chat with yesterday is Kim Marshall,

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Speaker 1: and she is of a similar opinion that we want

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Speaker 1: to leave no stone unturned and those rivers and waterways

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Speaker 1: should be checked to make sure that our loved ones

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Speaker 1: are located, to make sure and ensure that everything is

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Speaker 1: done to find our missing loved ones. Kim Marshall, how

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Speaker 1: are you?

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Speaker 4: I had well, I've had the most amazing day today.

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Speaker 1: But tell us all that.

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Speaker 4: Oh, it's actually Bab's birthday today, Brown's Mother's birthday, my mother.

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Speaker 4: So Megan and I have spent the day in the

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Speaker 4: garden and worked very hard at each other's homes, checking

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Speaker 4: in with each other constantly throughout the day.

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Speaker 1: So it's been a lovely day.

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Speaker 4: And here we are, I've got the silver side on,

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Speaker 4: ready to feed the children.

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Speaker 1: And having a chat to thou. Yeah, happy birthday to

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Speaker 1: your mama. You know, I sent you virtual flowers because

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Speaker 1: I just you know, it's one of those things, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: We want to celebrate them, and we talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about her, so it's nice to recognize her. You would

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Speaker 1: have probably heard I spoke to heavily last week and

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Speaker 1: we talked about Bromwin's case actually, and I like to

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Speaker 1: be very careful because I don't want to damage any

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Speaker 1: integrity of cases that are, you know, currently seemingly being

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Speaker 1: looked into. I will say, did you have a listen

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Speaker 1: to that podcast? Yes?

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Speaker 4: I did, and I found the episode something really good

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Speaker 4: to listen to. What you talked about each area that

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Speaker 4: you covered I thought was so relevant to the Missing

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Speaker 4: Space and I hope that a lot of other people

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Speaker 4: out there that are in the same situation as you

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Speaker 4: and I actually found it a very good listen and

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Speaker 4: help them have a deeper think about how they can

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Speaker 4: lodge submissions to the Parliamentary Inquiry in language and in

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Speaker 4: context to what you and Hedley were talking about.

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Speaker 1: Helped me have another look at my submission draft. Okay, good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I've had a little bit of feedback from a couple

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Speaker 1: of people actually who have said, you know, thanks for

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Speaker 1: sharing your ideas, because you know, we're all a bit lost.

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Speaker 1: We're not legal people. We don't understand the legal jargon

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Speaker 1: per se, and just to have a layman's way of

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Speaker 1: putting that information into a document. And you guys are

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Speaker 1: even longer in the tooth than I am. A lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about, right and there's a lot of things

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Speaker 1: to turn a lot of water under the bridge to cover.

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Speaker 1: It has been difficult. How have you found writing the submission?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a very big challenge. You know.

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Speaker 4: One day I'll actually have all this, you know, plan

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Speaker 4: and intent that this is the structure I'm going to

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Speaker 4: follow today, and then the structure goes out the window,

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Speaker 4: So out I go to the garden for half an hour,

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Speaker 4: have something to eat, and I come back in and

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Speaker 4: then I find myself going off writing in another area.

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Speaker 4: So I still haven't got my submission fully completed yet,

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Speaker 4: and that's okay because I'm not sure if everybody's aware.

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Speaker 4: But the actual closing date is no longer Barbara's birthdate.

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Speaker 4: It's now been extended. I went online and had a

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Speaker 4: look at the new South Wales Parliament page there at

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Speaker 4: the inquiry into Unsolved Homicide and Missing Persons, and you

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Speaker 4: will note that there is a date change.

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Speaker 1: It has been changed.

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Speaker 4: And then additionally they have also started to list in

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Speaker 4: very basic form that the dates on locations for hearings,

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Speaker 4: but when you click on it, there is actually no

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Speaker 4: information beyond that as yet.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think last time I looked the Sydney one,

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Speaker 1: who's actually on my birthday of the twelfth of May. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't think they had a date for Newcastle and

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Speaker 1: Grafton was still pending whether they were actually going to

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Speaker 1: hold one there. As per the mayor who attended the

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Speaker 1: council meeting that I went to there a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, he said, you know, listening to you Sally

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Speaker 1: and to Joe Greenstill, who also spoke at the deputation,

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Speaker 1: he said, you've given me more strength and power now

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Speaker 1: to push to have this parliamentary inquiry come to Grafton.

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Speaker 1: So we're waiting to hear on that. But you know,

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Speaker 1: good positives and you know, I think people just hearing

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Speaker 1: the stories, that's the power of talking about it and

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Speaker 1: being open and telling people, because if we just sit

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Speaker 1: behind closed doors, nothing's going to get done. It takes

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Speaker 1: a lot of courage and a lot of energy and

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Speaker 1: a lot of stress to regurgitate our traumas through these stories.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I know you are an advocate for

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Speaker 1: speaking up and getting the word out there as well,

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Speaker 1: because we're not just looking for our own missing people,

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Speaker 1: but we're helping those others that have missing people who

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Speaker 1: might not have experienced what we've experienced and learned something

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Speaker 1: from it, and vice versa. We can learn from others

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Speaker 1: as well. And it also helps people projecting into the

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Speaker 1: future for someone who may go missing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so on that note, Kim I received a

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Speaker 4: message late on Saturday night last week from a young

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Speaker 4: person who actually said to me, Hi, Sally, someone mentioned

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Speaker 4: that I should contact you.

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Speaker 1: My mum is missing. Oh, it's incredible, Sally. My heart

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Speaker 1: sank because I asked that person who will, and they

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Speaker 1: sent me a photograph of the link to their Facebook page,

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Speaker 1: which is find Yvonne. And I had seen her photo before,

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Speaker 1: and i'd actually had a journo who I've become pretty

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Speaker 1: close to. She's helped me over the last couple of

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Speaker 1: years or decades actually doing stories about my mum and

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Speaker 1: helping tell the story when other people weren't really listening.

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Speaker 1: And she said to me, or there's a lady who's

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Speaker 1: gone missing in the Tweed region and she has the

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Speaker 1: same detective as you had. And so we went down

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Speaker 1: that path of having a chat on text, and I said, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually going out very shortly with my family for dinner,

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Speaker 1: but I'm really happy to talk to you if you

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Speaker 1: want to have a chat. She's given me permission to

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Speaker 1: talk about her story, and that's why this episode started

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Speaker 1: with the story about Yvonne. Now, Vonn's been missing for

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Speaker 1: about five weeks and in talking to others who I

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Speaker 1: know are working with the family. So this is not

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Speaker 1: verified by the police, but I have been told that

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Speaker 1: over the weekend found three cars in the river. I'm

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Speaker 1: not even sure which river, maybe Richmond River or maybe

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Speaker 1: the Tweed River. I'm not one hundred percent sure on

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Speaker 1: this detail, but police divers are looking and they did

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Speaker 1: find three cars. Then I was talking to Jason Salise,

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Speaker 1: and of course he has been working hard, doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of sonar and boating to try and locate potentially

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Speaker 1: his dad's car in Tasmania because Nicola was last seen

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Speaker 1: driving and then he hasn't been seen since it's been

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Speaker 1: seventeen years I think, and you know, his car has

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Speaker 1: never been located so water. Being that the water is

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Speaker 1: so close to the road in a lot of spots

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Speaker 1: down where he was living, it seems like if you

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Speaker 1: can't see the car on the road or in the bush,

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Speaker 1: potentially that's where the car could be. So hence they've

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Speaker 1: been working really hard, and he's had diver Dan down there,

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Speaker 1: and we were just talking about the fact that we

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Speaker 1: need more people who can actually do diving and who

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Speaker 1: can do sona to see if they can scan the rivers.

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Speaker 1: While I was in Grafting Kim, a message came through

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Speaker 1: to Joe and to myself from a journalist who writes

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Speaker 1: for the paper down there, alerting us to the fact

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Speaker 1: that there was a fisherman who was talking about fishermen

432
00:27:30,041 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: are finding cars in the river, and it became a

433
00:27:33,921 --> 00:27:38,881
Speaker 1: real concern. Point two because only a few weeks ago

434
00:27:39,441 --> 00:27:43,521
Speaker 1: they found a car which they believe belongs to Sicily's

435
00:27:43,561 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: spyers who were seeing last year from Ballana, and I

436
00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:52,561
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about this. So on the

437
00:27:52,561 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: thirty first of March there was an article published in

438
00:27:56,001 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: the Balanan News Daily. River rex issues escalated to police

439
00:28:01,441 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: chief as new recruits head to region.

440
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 3: Ballana's mayor has taken concerns about suspected vehicles in the

441
00:28:08,521 --> 00:28:12,521
Speaker 3: Richmond River directly to senior police as the region prepares

442
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 3: to receive new frontline officers. Sharon Cadwalader met with new

443
00:28:17,201 --> 00:28:20,921
Speaker 3: South Wales Police Commissioner mal Lanyon in Sydney last Thursday night,

444
00:28:21,281 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 3: raising community concerns about cars believed to be lying on

445
00:28:24,521 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 3: the riverbed.

446
00:28:25,721 --> 00:28:28,241
Speaker 1: She said the police chief was receptive.

447
00:28:27,761 --> 00:28:30,481
Speaker 3: And agreed to raise the matter with the Richmond Police

448
00:28:30,521 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 3: District leadership. The move follows Baalana News Daily reporting that

449
00:28:34,761 --> 00:28:38,961
Speaker 3: multiple vehicles may be submerged in local waterways, with fishers

450
00:28:39,041 --> 00:28:44,601
Speaker 3: reporting sonar detections. Recent recoveries have intensified the issue, including

451
00:28:44,641 --> 00:28:47,681
Speaker 3: a vehicle linked to Sue Connors and another pulled from

452
00:28:47,681 --> 00:28:51,961
Speaker 3: the Richmond River during the investigation into Sicily Spires. Long

453
00:28:52,081 --> 00:28:55,281
Speaker 3: running cases such as that of Eden Wilson, whose vehicle

454
00:28:55,321 --> 00:28:58,761
Speaker 3: has never been found, continue to raise questions about where

455
00:28:58,761 --> 00:29:00,841
Speaker 3: the waterways were adequately searched.

456
00:29:03,761 --> 00:29:08,481
Speaker 1: Ballina's mayor has taken concerns about the suspected vehicles in

457
00:29:08,561 --> 00:29:12,801
Speaker 1: the Richmond River directly to senior police, you know, preparing

458
00:29:12,881 --> 00:29:15,161
Speaker 1: for new recruits who are going to come up from

459
00:29:15,321 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: Gulben to insert an injection of new police into that region.

460
00:29:21,841 --> 00:29:23,401
Speaker 1: I think it's really positive.

461
00:29:23,881 --> 00:29:27,881
Speaker 4: Yeah, most definitely, are we aware of whether they do

462
00:29:28,001 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 4: that on a regular basis or they're actually going to

463
00:29:30,761 --> 00:29:34,801
Speaker 4: increase the numbers for what the past numbers have actually been.

464
00:29:35,481 --> 00:29:38,601
Speaker 1: Well, as it says in that article, the numbers that

465
00:29:38,641 --> 00:29:41,601
Speaker 1: they currently have in that region are the same numbers

466
00:29:41,801 --> 00:29:45,081
Speaker 1: that they had in the nineteen eighties and the regions

467
00:29:45,361 --> 00:29:48,041
Speaker 1: almost doubled in size, So that just doesn't make any

468
00:29:48,081 --> 00:29:50,281
Speaker 1: sense to begin with. And then you've got officers who

469
00:29:50,281 --> 00:29:54,361
Speaker 1: are on leave, whether that be holidays, stress leave. They

470
00:29:54,441 --> 00:29:57,521
Speaker 1: need support as well, and I see it as a

471
00:29:57,521 --> 00:30:00,361
Speaker 1: really positive thing. I know you and I have had

472
00:30:00,361 --> 00:30:04,161
Speaker 1: this discussion because there is a chance that my mum

473
00:30:04,281 --> 00:30:08,281
Speaker 1: and your could be in a car. And I know

474
00:30:08,361 --> 00:30:11,641
Speaker 1: that's really raw, but that's what we live with and

475
00:30:11,641 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: that's what we think about, unfortunately. And so if I

476
00:30:15,921 --> 00:30:19,001
Speaker 1: have sort of given my opinion back to the OIC

477
00:30:19,121 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: on mum's case, and I said, if they are in

478
00:30:21,521 --> 00:30:24,641
Speaker 1: fact pulling cars out of the river, I'd really like

479
00:30:25,121 --> 00:30:28,321
Speaker 1: them to be aware of how important it is to

480
00:30:28,401 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: take down the details of exactly where the car was

481
00:30:31,001 --> 00:30:34,521
Speaker 1: found and the registration on that car and any details

482
00:30:34,561 --> 00:30:38,361
Speaker 1: about it, because that is important in a missing person's case.

483
00:30:38,401 --> 00:30:40,841
Speaker 1: And then we can go through all the missing person's

484
00:30:40,921 --> 00:30:43,681
Speaker 1: cases and see if they link to anybody in that region,

485
00:30:43,761 --> 00:30:45,641
Speaker 1: and if they don't, they get crossed off and they

486
00:30:45,681 --> 00:30:48,321
Speaker 1: get scrapped. But we need to make sure that's getting

487
00:30:48,361 --> 00:30:50,721
Speaker 1: done and they're not just getting dumped into scrap metal

488
00:30:50,801 --> 00:30:54,201
Speaker 1: without actually checking it off first. Totally correct.

489
00:30:54,721 --> 00:30:58,521
Speaker 4: Yes, it's just a repeat again of this ambiguity that

490
00:30:59,561 --> 00:31:04,081
Speaker 4: I always wonder, whether you know or over all this time,

491
00:31:04,641 --> 00:31:06,961
Speaker 4: is there anice in charge?

492
00:31:07,281 --> 00:31:09,321
Speaker 1: Who is the OIC in charge?

493
00:31:09,361 --> 00:31:14,801
Speaker 4: At certain times throughout the decades, never been able to

494
00:31:14,881 --> 00:31:20,841
Speaker 4: ever see any type of chronological case management of you know,

495
00:31:20,961 --> 00:31:24,601
Speaker 4: like a care plan or an investigation plan. I would

496
00:31:24,641 --> 00:31:27,601
Speaker 4: hope that they have investigation plans. But the other thing

497
00:31:27,681 --> 00:31:31,761
Speaker 4: that I'm always curious about is I wonder if there's

498
00:31:31,801 --> 00:31:38,041
Speaker 4: a budget allocation to each unsolved homicide or missing person

499
00:31:38,081 --> 00:31:42,081
Speaker 4: casese Because if there's budgets, is the budget allocated to

500
00:31:42,121 --> 00:31:45,441
Speaker 4: the unit or is it then X amount of hours

501
00:31:45,441 --> 00:31:49,281
Speaker 4: allocated to individual cases?

502
00:31:49,281 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: And then what happens if those hours run out? And

503
00:31:53,241 --> 00:31:56,561
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that kind of information is presented at the

504
00:31:56,761 --> 00:32:01,281
Speaker 1: parliamentary inquiry. I'm sure police are preparing a defense for

505
00:32:01,561 --> 00:32:04,601
Speaker 1: what is going to be a barrage of families coming

506
00:32:04,601 --> 00:32:07,321
Speaker 1: forward saying this has happened, this has happened, this didn't happen,

507
00:32:07,561 --> 00:32:10,561
Speaker 1: and they will hopefully come back with that detail. And

508
00:32:10,601 --> 00:32:13,601
Speaker 1: you've got to think too, like the homicide team are

509
00:32:13,601 --> 00:32:17,561
Speaker 1: based in Sydney. So when I've got someone messaging me saying, hey,

510
00:32:17,681 --> 00:32:19,841
Speaker 1: I lived in this house in Grafton in the late

511
00:32:19,921 --> 00:32:23,721
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties and the guy I was living with dog

512
00:32:23,801 --> 00:32:26,401
Speaker 1: brought a skull into the house, a human skull. He

513
00:32:26,521 --> 00:32:30,321
Speaker 1: kept it for them to come up to Grafton and

514
00:32:30,361 --> 00:32:33,321
Speaker 1: go to that house and bring a cadaver dog with them.

515
00:32:33,721 --> 00:32:36,921
Speaker 1: They have to come up from Sydney. Now that costs money,

516
00:32:36,961 --> 00:32:40,321
Speaker 1: that takes time, it's energy and effort within the policing.

517
00:32:40,881 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: So that also beggars the question, why don't we have

518
00:32:43,881 --> 00:32:45,961
Speaker 1: these scattered all up and down the coast. Why don't

519
00:32:45,961 --> 00:32:48,921
Speaker 1: we have a homicide team based in the northern area

520
00:32:49,081 --> 00:32:51,841
Speaker 1: of New South Wales. There's so many missing people and

521
00:32:52,161 --> 00:32:54,121
Speaker 1: you know, people are getting murdered up there. We're not

522
00:32:54,241 --> 00:32:57,761
Speaker 1: immune to it. We can't actually afford for there to

523
00:32:57,801 --> 00:33:02,121
Speaker 1: be delays and time issues because of the location. And

524
00:33:02,241 --> 00:33:04,281
Speaker 1: you know, let's face that Australia is a big country.

525
00:33:05,041 --> 00:33:07,481
Speaker 1: Maybe that needs to happen to you. Maybe where they

526
00:33:07,521 --> 00:33:10,081
Speaker 1: have I mean, the police station at Tweed is joinormous.

527
00:33:10,681 --> 00:33:13,881
Speaker 1: Potentially there could be a homicide team created to go

528
00:33:13,961 --> 00:33:16,881
Speaker 1: in there. I'm just sitting here trying to think of

529
00:33:16,961 --> 00:33:19,961
Speaker 1: better ways to manage because at the moment I just

530
00:33:20,001 --> 00:33:23,041
Speaker 1: see the same thing circling and circling the drain and

531
00:33:23,081 --> 00:33:26,361
Speaker 1: we're just not getting anywhere. I mean, when that bone

532
00:33:26,481 --> 00:33:29,441
Speaker 1: was found, the young couple that found the bone were

533
00:33:29,481 --> 00:33:32,641
Speaker 1: in their twenties and they were fishing off the rocks

534
00:33:33,001 --> 00:33:36,241
Speaker 1: at Ballina on the north end of the river, and

535
00:33:36,681 --> 00:33:38,601
Speaker 1: when you look at it on the maps where they've described,

536
00:33:38,601 --> 00:33:41,921
Speaker 1: it's near a boat ramp, and they said that they

537
00:33:41,961 --> 00:33:43,761
Speaker 1: went down to the rocks. They must have got their

538
00:33:43,801 --> 00:33:46,921
Speaker 1: line caught or something to that effect, and they've seen

539
00:33:47,001 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: a bone wedged into the rocks. They call police. So

540
00:33:50,801 --> 00:33:53,321
Speaker 1: this happens. I think on the Monday, if I've got

541
00:33:53,361 --> 00:33:55,361
Speaker 1: my dates right and i haven't got anything in front

542
00:33:55,401 --> 00:33:57,681
Speaker 1: of me, I'm just going off My memory memory is

543
00:33:57,801 --> 00:34:00,641
Speaker 1: very full, so don't shoot me if I get a

544
00:34:00,721 --> 00:34:03,601
Speaker 1: day wrong. But then I think it was four days

545
00:34:03,681 --> 00:34:08,721
Speaker 1: later that they and they searched the river and within

546
00:34:08,801 --> 00:34:11,601
Speaker 1: that short space of time they found a car which

547
00:34:12,161 --> 00:34:15,281
Speaker 1: they said it was similar to the car of Cicicily

548
00:34:15,361 --> 00:34:19,401
Speaker 1: Spires when she went missing. So they've instantly gone that

549
00:34:19,521 --> 00:34:23,041
Speaker 1: bone must be Ciccily's. And I'm like, that's a really

550
00:34:23,161 --> 00:34:26,521
Speaker 1: bad thing to do in the media, because there are

551
00:34:26,601 --> 00:34:28,801
Speaker 1: lots of people who have missing people in this space.

552
00:34:29,881 --> 00:34:32,841
Speaker 1: I did a map mud map of where the bone

553
00:34:32,961 --> 00:34:37,161
Speaker 1: was found and other locations on my radar, and I

554
00:34:37,201 --> 00:34:40,601
Speaker 1: was quite concerned with the location. I did not get

555
00:34:40,601 --> 00:34:43,321
Speaker 1: a phone call from anybody to say, hey, Sally, just

556
00:34:43,361 --> 00:34:45,361
Speaker 1: a care and concern call, just to let you know

557
00:34:45,521 --> 00:34:47,881
Speaker 1: there's been a bone found. They didn't find the car

558
00:34:47,961 --> 00:34:50,721
Speaker 1: for four days. I know they didn't ring you either.

559
00:34:51,361 --> 00:34:53,001
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Like, how does that

560
00:34:53,041 --> 00:35:00,241
Speaker 1: make you feel? It increases the distrust. Trust is so important.

561
00:35:00,521 --> 00:35:03,561
Speaker 4: We should always be able to rely on the systems

562
00:35:03,561 --> 00:35:06,761
Speaker 4: that are there to protect that to help us.

563
00:35:07,401 --> 00:35:09,721
Speaker 1: And as much as.

564
00:35:09,641 --> 00:35:16,041
Speaker 4: I may have respect for individual officers that actually work

565
00:35:16,441 --> 00:35:21,961
Speaker 4: in the New South Wales Police, the systems and the databases,

566
00:35:22,561 --> 00:35:25,561
Speaker 4: they just don't seem to talk to each other. And

567
00:35:25,641 --> 00:35:29,281
Speaker 4: there is always going to be what I feel is

568
00:35:29,321 --> 00:35:32,761
Speaker 4: a high risk every time I might have a piece

569
00:35:32,841 --> 00:35:39,881
Speaker 4: of information, I'm absolutely terrified that information is not going

570
00:35:39,961 --> 00:35:43,841
Speaker 4: to accurately make sense or get there and then in

571
00:35:43,961 --> 00:35:49,441
Speaker 4: reverse for decades. It wouldn't matter whether it was the

572
00:35:49,521 --> 00:35:54,401
Speaker 4: next of kin making contact or myself making contact. The

573
00:35:54,521 --> 00:35:58,881
Speaker 4: ambiguity just gets pathed back to you. Is if you're

574
00:35:58,881 --> 00:36:03,841
Speaker 4: playing table tennis. It's damaging and it takes you away

575
00:36:05,321 --> 00:36:07,841
Speaker 4: everything that you are meant to be doing in the present,

576
00:36:07,921 --> 00:36:12,281
Speaker 4: your other responsibilities. And there's got to be a better way.

577
00:36:12,401 --> 00:36:16,881
Speaker 4: There's got to be more efficiency and more effectiveness to

578
00:36:16,961 --> 00:36:21,121
Speaker 4: be able to look after and I mean look after

579
00:36:21,641 --> 00:36:25,521
Speaker 4: people that have lost a missing person or have a

580
00:36:25,561 --> 00:36:32,761
Speaker 4: family member that has been horrifically First leave it at that,

581
00:36:33,361 --> 00:36:39,761
Speaker 4: there's got to be a better cadence of information flowing back.

582
00:36:41,401 --> 00:36:45,121
Speaker 1: Well. The silence is deafening, and it definitely does not help.

583
00:36:45,761 --> 00:36:47,801
Speaker 1: Not even getting a response to a text message when

584
00:36:47,801 --> 00:36:50,921
Speaker 1: you're asking a question. I mean, I'm so used to

585
00:36:50,961 --> 00:36:54,481
Speaker 1: it now, I just go, yeah, okay. I actually expect

586
00:36:54,641 --> 00:36:56,481
Speaker 1: not to get an answer most of the time, so

587
00:36:56,521 --> 00:36:59,241
Speaker 1: when I do, I'm very elated and very happy with that.

588
00:36:59,441 --> 00:37:02,441
Speaker 1: And to be fair, I have had some great communication

589
00:37:02,561 --> 00:37:06,881
Speaker 1: of recent time. Did you initiate that communication though? Of course,

590
00:37:07,401 --> 00:37:11,241
Speaker 1: of course, of course it doesn't come free flowing. And

591
00:37:11,601 --> 00:37:14,121
Speaker 1: you know, I know you and I have talked for

592
00:37:14,241 --> 00:37:18,641
Speaker 1: years about doing things and making a change. And I

593
00:37:18,681 --> 00:37:21,201
Speaker 1: put in my submissions which I've spoken about a little

594
00:37:21,201 --> 00:37:24,801
Speaker 1: bit about doing the register right, registering if you do

595
00:37:24,881 --> 00:37:27,041
Speaker 1: want to go missing, so that we have some sort

596
00:37:27,081 --> 00:37:30,881
Speaker 1: of some sort of plan in place, some sort of

597
00:37:31,721 --> 00:37:35,081
Speaker 1: facility to be able to manage this better, because we're

598
00:37:35,121 --> 00:37:38,161
Speaker 1: not managing it very well. And if you think about it, Kim,

599
00:37:38,201 --> 00:37:40,761
Speaker 1: if there was actually as part of that agency. I

600
00:37:40,801 --> 00:37:43,361
Speaker 1: did speak about the fact that if someone was wanting

601
00:37:43,401 --> 00:37:45,881
Speaker 1: to go missing because they're in a domestic violent situation,

602
00:37:46,121 --> 00:37:48,681
Speaker 1: or they're in a coerce situation, I don't know what

603
00:37:48,761 --> 00:37:52,281
Speaker 1: to do, or they're getting sexually abused by something like

604
00:37:52,321 --> 00:37:55,401
Speaker 1: there's there's all these arms that come from this. It's

605
00:37:55,441 --> 00:37:58,321
Speaker 1: a pretty big scope of works. It's not something that's

606
00:37:58,361 --> 00:38:00,921
Speaker 1: going to take five seconds to sort out, and there's

607
00:38:00,921 --> 00:38:02,601
Speaker 1: going to have to be lots of play around that.

608
00:38:03,041 --> 00:38:07,041
Speaker 1: But another element could be a part of that agency

609
00:38:07,281 --> 00:38:11,361
Speaker 1: is a team who are dedicated to looking after regions

610
00:38:11,401 --> 00:38:14,801
Speaker 1: and if a bone is found, if it is found

611
00:38:15,161 --> 00:38:18,241
Speaker 1: in that location, there should be a team of people

612
00:38:18,241 --> 00:38:22,241
Speaker 1: who are responsible for them, contacting the families who have

613
00:38:22,361 --> 00:38:25,841
Speaker 1: a missing person in that region and just having a

614
00:38:25,881 --> 00:38:29,881
Speaker 1: gentle conversation with them. That needs to happen to ensure

615
00:38:29,921 --> 00:38:32,801
Speaker 1: that that's the first time they're hearing about it, not

616
00:38:32,921 --> 00:38:35,321
Speaker 1: from the media, not reading it in a newspaper, not

617
00:38:35,361 --> 00:38:38,001
Speaker 1: getting someone to send them the link and say, hey,

618
00:38:38,001 --> 00:38:40,881
Speaker 1: have you seen this, it's in my local newspaper. Don't

619
00:38:40,921 --> 00:38:43,801
Speaker 1: get me wrong, I'm very grateful and appreciative of everyone

620
00:38:43,881 --> 00:38:45,881
Speaker 1: sending me things so I can read it and I

621
00:38:45,921 --> 00:38:49,521
Speaker 1: can be knowledgeable and I can understand what's happening, but

622
00:38:49,601 --> 00:38:51,521
Speaker 1: it's hard to do it that way. Like there needs

623
00:38:51,601 --> 00:38:54,441
Speaker 1: to be a better way to help the families, Like

624
00:38:54,481 --> 00:38:56,681
Speaker 1: we don't really get much help in any way, shape

625
00:38:56,761 --> 00:39:00,241
Speaker 1: or form. So that's one thing that could just change

626
00:39:00,401 --> 00:39:01,321
Speaker 1: and make a difference.

627
00:39:01,761 --> 00:39:06,521
Speaker 4: There is definitely an effective way that could actually happen,

628
00:39:06,641 --> 00:39:10,561
Speaker 4: And wouldn't it be amazing if it could be stakeholder

629
00:39:11,121 --> 00:39:17,681
Speaker 4: co designed with these law enforcement agencies. You've already got

630
00:39:17,721 --> 00:39:21,961
Speaker 4: the National Missing Coordination Center with the Federal Police.

631
00:39:22,961 --> 00:39:24,321
Speaker 1: There's infrastructure there.

632
00:39:24,601 --> 00:39:30,121
Speaker 4: It's just being able to actually co design and develop

633
00:39:30,161 --> 00:39:34,321
Speaker 4: a program where information flows two way, being able to

634
00:39:34,881 --> 00:39:37,841
Speaker 4: have the agency to be able to log on and

635
00:39:37,921 --> 00:39:41,241
Speaker 4: to be able to check to see what.

636
00:39:41,201 --> 00:39:42,241
Speaker 1: Reviews are happening.

637
00:39:42,681 --> 00:39:46,081
Speaker 4: We get alerts already if there's a fire, the fire

638
00:39:46,161 --> 00:39:51,681
Speaker 4: departments already used volunteer services. There's just so many amazing

639
00:39:51,761 --> 00:39:56,001
Speaker 4: things that could actually happen whilst also reducing the risk

640
00:39:56,161 --> 00:40:00,161
Speaker 4: and making sure that sensitive information is kept confidential.

641
00:40:00,681 --> 00:40:04,241
Speaker 1: YEP. I don't think anyone's asking for confidential information to

642
00:40:04,321 --> 00:40:07,561
Speaker 1: be made public or released or anything like that, but

643
00:40:07,681 --> 00:40:10,601
Speaker 1: I think we need to come up with a better solution.

644
00:40:10,961 --> 00:40:13,321
Speaker 1: And it's not just the New South Wales, it's for everybody.

645
00:40:13,681 --> 00:40:16,001
Speaker 1: It's just that you and I are connected to New

646
00:40:16,081 --> 00:40:18,721
Speaker 1: South Wales, so that's where our main focus is at

647
00:40:18,721 --> 00:40:20,921
Speaker 1: the moment. But these things are put in place and

648
00:40:21,001 --> 00:40:23,801
Speaker 1: designed to help all of Australia in my opinion, like

649
00:40:24,321 --> 00:40:29,121
Speaker 1: everyone matters. And he talked about the National Missing Person's

650
00:40:29,201 --> 00:40:32,721
Speaker 1: Coordination Center in Camber, the AFP. Now they do a

651
00:40:32,721 --> 00:40:35,161
Speaker 1: great job. I've got a contact there. I speak to her.

652
00:40:35,961 --> 00:40:38,281
Speaker 1: We had an issue with one of the profiles that

653
00:40:38,321 --> 00:40:41,281
Speaker 1: I did on the Missing Matter podcast, Andrew English. They

654
00:40:41,281 --> 00:40:44,801
Speaker 1: were calling him by his middle name. We actually mentioned

655
00:40:44,841 --> 00:40:47,361
Speaker 1: that I wrote an email and ccd in Joe, Who's

656
00:40:48,081 --> 00:40:51,801
Speaker 1: new person I spoke to about Andrew's case, and we

657
00:40:52,321 --> 00:40:54,601
Speaker 1: had that corrected. So they were calling him by his

658
00:40:54,641 --> 00:40:57,201
Speaker 1: middle name, even though they had his first name at

659
00:40:57,281 --> 00:40:59,361
Speaker 1: the top of the page and this is on his profile.

660
00:41:00,081 --> 00:41:02,241
Speaker 1: And then when I was doing my research, I saw

661
00:41:02,321 --> 00:41:04,681
Speaker 1: on the Dough Network that they actually had his birthday wrong,

662
00:41:04,721 --> 00:41:06,841
Speaker 1: and I know not it was wrong at that time. When

663
00:41:06,841 --> 00:41:10,241
Speaker 1: I'm doing these episodes, I am not a journalist. I

664
00:41:10,281 --> 00:41:12,601
Speaker 1: am a person with lived experience. I've got a missing

665
00:41:12,641 --> 00:41:16,041
Speaker 1: person myself, so I understand the trauma behind the story,

666
00:41:16,121 --> 00:41:18,841
Speaker 1: and I'm here to guide them in a gentle conversation.

667
00:41:19,241 --> 00:41:21,161
Speaker 1: So you will know yourself, Kim, because I did it

668
00:41:21,161 --> 00:41:23,521
Speaker 1: with you as well. I go through and I script

669
00:41:24,081 --> 00:41:26,601
Speaker 1: a bit of an idea as to how we will

670
00:41:26,721 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: have a chat and some questions, and then I send

671
00:41:29,521 --> 00:41:32,441
Speaker 1: it to you to check and see if it's correct,

672
00:41:32,521 --> 00:41:34,681
Speaker 1: if you're happy with it, if you want something taken out,

673
00:41:34,721 --> 00:41:36,761
Speaker 1: if you want to add something in, and we move

674
00:41:36,841 --> 00:41:38,161
Speaker 1: to the next phase and I do it again. It

675
00:41:38,201 --> 00:41:41,681
Speaker 1: takes me about thirty to forty hours of happening getting

676
00:41:41,681 --> 00:41:43,681
Speaker 1: that ready. Before we even sit in the studio and

677
00:41:43,721 --> 00:41:47,681
Speaker 1: start recording, I want to give them a bit of

678
00:41:47,681 --> 00:41:49,401
Speaker 1: a heads up as to how this is going to

679
00:41:49,481 --> 00:41:51,281
Speaker 1: roll out and the questions I wanted to sort of

680
00:41:51,321 --> 00:41:54,361
Speaker 1: ask them so that they can prepare themselves too and

681
00:41:54,401 --> 00:41:57,681
Speaker 1: they're not shocked by a question or how many days

682
00:41:57,681 --> 00:42:01,201
Speaker 1: their person has been missing. That's all upfront before we

683
00:42:01,281 --> 00:42:03,201
Speaker 1: even get into the studio. And I think that's really

684
00:42:03,241 --> 00:42:06,641
Speaker 1: important because I know myself when I've been interviewed and

685
00:42:06,681 --> 00:42:09,961
Speaker 1: people ask you questions off the cuff, and you've got

686
00:42:09,961 --> 00:42:13,001
Speaker 1: to answer them. And then you lose sleep because of

687
00:42:13,041 --> 00:42:15,361
Speaker 1: what you've said, what your answer is, and like, oh,

688
00:42:15,401 --> 00:42:17,281
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said that. Oh do I say that?

689
00:42:17,321 --> 00:42:19,041
Speaker 1: What did I say? Again? And then you don't actually

690
00:42:19,241 --> 00:42:21,001
Speaker 1: to read it or hear it until it's out in

691
00:42:21,001 --> 00:42:24,001
Speaker 1: the public arena. I've had some people who have said

692
00:42:24,001 --> 00:42:26,001
Speaker 1: to me, can I listen to the episode before it drops,

693
00:42:26,121 --> 00:42:28,521
Speaker 1: just to come my mind. I'm like, absolutely, you can

694
00:42:28,601 --> 00:42:31,761
Speaker 1: here it is, have listened, you know. So when I

695
00:42:31,801 --> 00:42:35,001
Speaker 1: did my notes for Andrew's episode, Joe actually said to me, hey,

696
00:42:35,081 --> 00:42:37,321
Speaker 1: you've got his date of birth wrong. And I had

697
00:42:37,321 --> 00:42:40,361
Speaker 1: the second of July and his actual birthday was the

698
00:42:40,441 --> 00:42:44,041
Speaker 1: seventh of February. And so what I was able to

699
00:42:44,161 --> 00:42:47,081
Speaker 1: work out from that, and with Joe helping me, we

700
00:42:47,361 --> 00:42:50,121
Speaker 1: assumed that it was an American website and they've actually

701
00:42:50,281 --> 00:42:52,241
Speaker 1: changed the you know how they have the month and

702
00:42:52,281 --> 00:42:55,481
Speaker 1: the date around the wrong way to us, so they've

703
00:42:55,521 --> 00:42:59,761
Speaker 1: actually changed it around. So again his day of birth

704
00:42:59,801 --> 00:43:01,961
Speaker 1: was incorrect. But I went to the AFP and my

705
00:43:02,001 --> 00:43:04,321
Speaker 1: contact and I said in an email, hey, could you

706
00:43:04,401 --> 00:43:07,641
Speaker 1: please so contact the dough network and ask them to

707
00:43:07,721 --> 00:43:10,761
Speaker 1: correct his date of birth because that's also wrong. So

708
00:43:10,881 --> 00:43:13,281
Speaker 1: we just made them aware of that in the hope

709
00:43:13,321 --> 00:43:17,601
Speaker 1: that Andrew can be located and all the information is correct,

710
00:43:17,601 --> 00:43:19,841
Speaker 1: because I don't know if you listen to that episode,

711
00:43:19,841 --> 00:43:22,761
Speaker 1: but they also had that he was last seen in

712
00:43:22,841 --> 00:43:25,721
Speaker 1: Sydney in a different, like a random location, and I

713
00:43:25,761 --> 00:43:28,121
Speaker 1: said to Joe, so this is where they've said he

714
00:43:28,361 --> 00:43:30,921
Speaker 1: was last seen, Like you've told me that you saw

715
00:43:30,961 --> 00:43:32,681
Speaker 1: him at the caravan park and it was night you

716
00:43:32,761 --> 00:43:35,081
Speaker 1: guys were all going out, And She's like, that can't

717
00:43:35,081 --> 00:43:38,481
Speaker 1: physically have happened on that date for him to be

718
00:43:38,481 --> 00:43:41,361
Speaker 1: able to drive that way and it was raining. Andrew

719
00:43:41,361 --> 00:43:45,801
Speaker 1: therefore falls into that whole scenario as well of needing

720
00:43:46,281 --> 00:43:50,161
Speaker 1: sonar and divers to actually go looking because his car

721
00:43:50,241 --> 00:43:54,441
Speaker 1: is missing as well, and Yamba is surrounded by water,

722
00:43:54,601 --> 00:43:57,241
Speaker 1: like to get from that caravan park where he was

723
00:43:57,321 --> 00:44:00,001
Speaker 1: that night out to the highway to go back to Sydney,

724
00:44:00,041 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: you've got to go past waterways that are a meter

725
00:44:03,481 --> 00:44:06,721
Speaker 1: from the road in some since is back in that time,

726
00:44:07,201 --> 00:44:10,841
Speaker 1: and no one's ever done those searches. So we need

727
00:44:10,921 --> 00:44:13,281
Speaker 1: in all of that Northern Rivers region, we really need

728
00:44:13,321 --> 00:44:15,761
Speaker 1: to get in there and be checking liz More Evans

729
00:44:15,841 --> 00:44:18,641
Speaker 1: Head like they're all regions that I think we really

730
00:44:18,681 --> 00:44:20,721
Speaker 1: need to focus on and see what we can find.

731
00:44:20,761 --> 00:44:23,201
Speaker 1: And it's probably going to take an army. So if

732
00:44:23,201 --> 00:44:25,321
Speaker 1: anybody's keen out there and they want to do something

733
00:44:25,361 --> 00:44:26,601
Speaker 1: like that, or if they have a boat and they

734
00:44:26,641 --> 00:44:30,241
Speaker 1: have sonar and they're experienced divers, please reach out to

735
00:44:30,321 --> 00:44:32,681
Speaker 1: us and let's see if we can collectively work with

736
00:44:32,761 --> 00:44:36,081
Speaker 1: the police and offer public assistance to help in doing

737
00:44:36,121 --> 00:44:38,481
Speaker 1: these searchers, because they probably don't have the manpower to

738
00:44:38,481 --> 00:44:39,681
Speaker 1: do it all on their own.

739
00:44:40,241 --> 00:44:43,681
Speaker 4: Yeah, the example you've given, it's just a great catch

740
00:44:43,841 --> 00:44:48,841
Speaker 4: sally for whoever. Doesn't matter whether it's people like everyday

741
00:44:48,881 --> 00:44:51,801
Speaker 4: people like us, or whether it's law enforcement agency. It's

742
00:44:51,841 --> 00:44:57,641
Speaker 4: a perfect example because if we are using technology, even

743
00:44:57,921 --> 00:45:00,521
Speaker 4: if it's not as efficient as we should and hope

744
00:45:00,561 --> 00:45:03,761
Speaker 4: it to be, you put a dating to do it,

745
00:45:03,881 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 4: a data search, you know, to capture a group of

746
00:45:07,601 --> 00:45:12,601
Speaker 4: missing people, or you're wanting to actually refine down to

747
00:45:12,681 --> 00:45:17,361
Speaker 4: a focused piece of information. If you didn't exist, for example,

748
00:45:17,481 --> 00:45:21,081
Speaker 4: and do this work that you're doing with all of us, now,

749
00:45:22,321 --> 00:45:25,801
Speaker 4: where would the family be right now in regards to

750
00:45:26,721 --> 00:45:31,601
Speaker 4: accurate information on their existing systems At the Federal Police

751
00:45:31,721 --> 00:45:34,681
Speaker 4: or the missing persons for the state that he went

752
00:45:34,721 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 4: missing from. So in our case, you're talking about New

753
00:45:38,481 --> 00:45:42,081
Speaker 4: South Wales, Well, they were looking for the right location.

754
00:45:42,881 --> 00:45:48,641
Speaker 4: Would all this information still be incorrect. Well you hadn't

755
00:45:49,121 --> 00:45:52,961
Speaker 4: just rocked along with the missing matter. Well that's concerning.

756
00:45:52,961 --> 00:45:54,681
Speaker 1: And you know, if I had all the time in

757
00:45:54,721 --> 00:45:56,441
Speaker 1: the world, I'd love to sit down and go and

758
00:45:56,441 --> 00:45:59,281
Speaker 1: do that with every single case, because you know, I've

759
00:45:59,361 --> 00:46:01,761
Speaker 1: learned these things through my own experience. As Kim. In

760
00:46:01,801 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, I had a lady who was following along

761
00:46:04,481 --> 00:46:06,561
Speaker 1: on my Facebook page and she said, Hey, Sally, I've

762
00:46:06,601 --> 00:46:08,481
Speaker 1: just gone to check if your mum's on the National

763
00:46:08,481 --> 00:46:11,321
Speaker 1: Missing Person's Register. Just wanted to let you know she's

764
00:46:11,401 --> 00:46:14,601
Speaker 1: not there. It's crucial. And I went, oh, my goodness,

765
00:46:14,601 --> 00:46:16,481
Speaker 1: So we're supposed to be checking this all the time,

766
00:46:16,561 --> 00:46:19,761
Speaker 1: like you just if I take myself back to twenty sixteen,

767
00:46:20,161 --> 00:46:22,921
Speaker 1: I'm working with the police. Yes, they told me, you

768
00:46:22,961 --> 00:46:25,321
Speaker 1: know at that point, like i'd think in twenty sixteen,

769
00:46:25,401 --> 00:46:27,521
Speaker 1: he told me that they were doing nothing, you know,

770
00:46:27,561 --> 00:46:29,921
Speaker 1: and there's nothing more to see here. And I wrote

771
00:46:29,921 --> 00:46:32,161
Speaker 1: an email and I gave him all these ideas about

772
00:46:32,201 --> 00:46:34,121
Speaker 1: things other things that we could do, like, can we

773
00:46:34,201 --> 00:46:36,641
Speaker 1: check if she's touched her super like she you know,

774
00:46:36,721 --> 00:46:39,001
Speaker 1: hadn't thought of that. Can we check and see who

775
00:46:39,081 --> 00:46:41,361
Speaker 1: she was sitting next to on the plane? Is there

776
00:46:41,401 --> 00:46:45,161
Speaker 1: records of passenger lists? Can we get those? Cause I

777
00:46:45,241 --> 00:46:47,921
Speaker 1: was doing that at that juncture. But I also assumed

778
00:46:47,961 --> 00:46:50,041
Speaker 1: my mum would be on the National Missing Person's Register

779
00:46:50,161 --> 00:46:54,201
Speaker 1: because she's missing, And that's a whole nother broader story.

780
00:46:54,721 --> 00:46:57,321
Speaker 1: I've been talking about this with other people during the week,

781
00:46:57,441 --> 00:47:01,281
Speaker 1: whereby my mum actually wasn't on the National Missing Person's

782
00:47:01,321 --> 00:47:05,721
Speaker 1: Register for twenty two years. So that number that we

783
00:47:05,841 --> 00:47:08,521
Speaker 1: keep getting fed of three thousand odd people are long

784
00:47:08,641 --> 00:47:13,361
Speaker 1: term missing. That number could be massive in real terms,

785
00:47:13,441 --> 00:47:17,281
Speaker 1: because there's so many people who are genuinely missing. But

786
00:47:17,321 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: the police have decided on their knowledge, their assumption that

787
00:47:23,121 --> 00:47:25,641
Speaker 1: the person isn't missing in the true sense of the word,

788
00:47:25,681 --> 00:47:28,401
Speaker 1: which is exactly the language they wrote in my mum's file,

789
00:47:28,881 --> 00:47:31,881
Speaker 1: and therefore that person's not registered as missing, so they're

790
00:47:31,921 --> 00:47:35,201
Speaker 1: not added to that three thousand to being long term missing.

791
00:47:35,921 --> 00:47:39,721
Speaker 1: And I'd be so interested to know how many families

792
00:47:39,761 --> 00:47:43,441
Speaker 1: out there have a missing person who they're missing person

793
00:47:43,601 --> 00:47:46,921
Speaker 1: isn't registered as missing on the National Missing Person's Register. Yeah,

794
00:47:46,921 --> 00:47:48,081
Speaker 1: that would be really interesting.

795
00:47:48,401 --> 00:47:52,001
Speaker 4: The whole time I'm listening here to your words is

796
00:47:52,841 --> 00:47:57,361
Speaker 4: knowledge is essential. Forget about the power word. Knowledge is essential,

797
00:47:57,521 --> 00:48:01,801
Speaker 4: it's critical. At the very beginning, you'll remember that I

798
00:48:02,081 --> 00:48:06,441
Speaker 4: actually mentioned the word trust and so being able to

799
00:48:06,481 --> 00:48:10,201
Speaker 4: trust the systems. And we've all been programmed or raised,

800
00:48:10,801 --> 00:48:14,841
Speaker 4: we've grown up understanding that there is a system, there

801
00:48:14,881 --> 00:48:18,641
Speaker 4: is a structure that's there to protect us, there to

802
00:48:18,681 --> 00:48:24,201
Speaker 4: look after us, and it's world due time for a

803
00:48:24,241 --> 00:48:26,761
Speaker 4: big review and collaboration.

804
00:48:27,561 --> 00:48:30,561
Speaker 1: Things have got to change well, and let's get that

805
00:48:30,641 --> 00:48:34,841
Speaker 1: trust happening. Let's build on that trust and move forward

806
00:48:35,321 --> 00:48:39,681
Speaker 1: and shed some light on a pretty dark space with

807
00:48:39,841 --> 00:48:44,801
Speaker 1: some pretty significant case studies. So, as always, Kim Marshall,

808
00:48:45,001 --> 00:48:48,321
Speaker 1: rom and Winfield sister, thank you for coming on the

809
00:48:48,321 --> 00:48:53,121
Speaker 1: Missing Matter podcast with me and sharing your experiences and

810
00:48:53,201 --> 00:48:56,321
Speaker 1: your knowledge. You're a very smart lady, and you have

811
00:48:56,361 --> 00:48:59,201
Speaker 1: a lot of good ideas and I always love talking

812
00:48:59,241 --> 00:49:02,401
Speaker 1: to you, so thanks for joining me. Is an absolute pleasure.

813
00:49:02,441 --> 00:49:04,561
Speaker 4: I've learned a lot and I just wouldn't know what

814
00:49:04,681 --> 00:49:05,801
Speaker 4: to do without you.

815
00:49:05,961 --> 00:49:10,361
Speaker 1: I just don't know where I would be. You'd be fine,

816
00:49:10,441 --> 00:49:14,561
Speaker 1: I'm sure. No, I was not fine, and now I

817
00:49:14,601 --> 00:49:17,481
Speaker 1: am okay. Well that's good, that's good. Well, we're all

818
00:49:17,481 --> 00:49:21,241
Speaker 1: in it together, right, I keep saying, there's power of

819
00:49:21,241 --> 00:49:25,201
Speaker 1: the people and we're stronger working together is what we're

820
00:49:25,201 --> 00:49:26,241
Speaker 1: making the waterway.

821
00:49:26,721 --> 00:49:31,561
Speaker 4: There's a second city, is what I'm starting to feel. Yeah,

822
00:49:31,601 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 4: you know, there's a whole other timeline under the water.

823
00:49:35,801 --> 00:49:38,601
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'm not known for giving shout outs to

824
00:49:38,801 --> 00:49:40,681
Speaker 1: New South Wales Police, but I am going to do

825
00:49:40,721 --> 00:49:44,161
Speaker 1: it on this account and say good on you for

826
00:49:45,001 --> 00:49:48,121
Speaker 1: looking at this and recognizing that there's a problem. I

827
00:49:48,161 --> 00:49:51,801
Speaker 1: personally think we probably need thirty new recruits in the region.

828
00:49:52,321 --> 00:49:56,761
Speaker 1: The region is jinormous in comparison, so I think we

829
00:49:56,841 --> 00:49:58,961
Speaker 1: probably need more than ten. And we need people who

830
00:49:59,001 --> 00:50:01,481
Speaker 1: are experienced too. You know, these people are brand new,

831
00:50:01,561 --> 00:50:05,121
Speaker 1: fresh out of the academy. We can't expect them to

832
00:50:05,121 --> 00:50:08,161
Speaker 1: to know everything, and they're going to be learning from

833
00:50:08,201 --> 00:50:10,641
Speaker 1: those that are already there. So it's really important that

834
00:50:10,681 --> 00:50:15,001
Speaker 1: the teachings are up to date and we're not living

835
00:50:15,041 --> 00:50:17,801
Speaker 1: back in the nineties. We're actually up to speed and

836
00:50:17,841 --> 00:50:21,121
Speaker 1: we know what today's world looks like. But you know,

837
00:50:21,321 --> 00:50:25,161
Speaker 1: shout out to them for making a move, making a change,

838
00:50:25,281 --> 00:50:27,641
Speaker 1: recognizing that this is something that needs to happen. And

839
00:50:28,361 --> 00:50:31,321
Speaker 1: I personally will be cheering on from the sideline as

840
00:50:31,801 --> 00:50:35,481
Speaker 1: we go through that and trying to check these areas

841
00:50:35,561 --> 00:50:37,841
Speaker 1: and just tick it off and say, Okay, it's been done.

842
00:50:37,841 --> 00:50:41,401
Speaker 1: Now it's been done. We've checked it and hopefully, I

843
00:50:41,401 --> 00:50:45,161
Speaker 1: mean hopefully. Gosh, that's such a hard thing to say,

844
00:50:45,241 --> 00:50:49,801
Speaker 1: but you know, if it may bring some peace to

845
00:50:50,241 --> 00:50:53,961
Speaker 1: some families. Correct, Yes, I just feel like there's a

846
00:50:54,041 --> 00:50:56,121
Speaker 1: change in the wind, Kim. I've said it before, and

847
00:50:56,161 --> 00:50:58,801
Speaker 1: I'm really hoping that I'm right, and my gut is

848
00:50:59,281 --> 00:51:01,401
Speaker 1: telling me that good things are on their horizon in

849
00:51:01,401 --> 00:51:04,721
Speaker 1: this space. I have the same feeling too. Thank you,

850
00:51:04,801 --> 00:51:07,561
Speaker 1: So you're welcome. Well you're own Tazzy as well. So

851
00:51:08,041 --> 00:51:10,961
Speaker 1: you know, neither of us are in the location where

852
00:51:11,001 --> 00:51:14,801
Speaker 1: our loved ones have gone missing, so it makes it

853
00:51:14,881 --> 00:51:17,281
Speaker 1: very difficult, so we are reliant on others and sharing

854
00:51:17,321 --> 00:51:20,361
Speaker 1: the news and spreading awareness about what is happening is

855
00:51:20,401 --> 00:51:21,001
Speaker 1: important too.

856
00:51:21,241 --> 00:51:24,361
Speaker 4: So it's really good to hear about people in other

857
00:51:24,401 --> 00:51:28,081
Speaker 4: regions and other areas of you know, what experiences there

858
00:51:28,081 --> 00:51:28,681
Speaker 4: going through.

859
00:51:34,521 --> 00:51:37,721
Speaker 1: So thank you for joining me on this special bonus episode.

860
00:51:38,361 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: I would like everybody to share it as far as

861
00:51:40,961 --> 00:51:45,521
Speaker 1: you can talk about it. Speak about it because it

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00:51:45,561 --> 00:51:49,681
Speaker 1: brings awareness to the table. And more importantly, we need

863
00:51:49,721 --> 00:51:53,161
Speaker 1: to find Yvonne. She's been missing for five weeks. Let's

864
00:51:53,241 --> 00:51:55,961
Speaker 1: not turn it into six. Let's find out where she's gone,

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00:51:56,241 --> 00:51:58,561
Speaker 1: what has happened to her, and bring her home to

866
00:51:58,601 --> 00:52:02,001
Speaker 1: her family and her animals. She was a keen lover

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00:52:02,081 --> 00:52:05,561
Speaker 1: of animals and she would never leave them. Look forward

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00:52:05,681 --> 00:52:09,921
Speaker 1: to talking to you all again next week. Where As

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00:52:09,921 --> 00:52:13,721
Speaker 1: I mentioned, we have Jason Selici joining me joe Ane

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00:52:13,721 --> 00:52:16,961
Speaker 1: Green Seal till then, stay safe.

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00:52:18,441 --> 00:52:20,761
Speaker 5: If you know anything, no matter how small, it could

872
00:52:20,801 --> 00:52:24,041
Speaker 5: help bring ivon home. Please message her family through their

873
00:52:24,041 --> 00:52:28,681
Speaker 5: dedicated Facebook page, Fine Yvonne, or you can call crime

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00:52:28,721 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 5: Stoppers on one eight hundred, triple three, triple zero. Thanks

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00:52:32,441 --> 00:52:32,921
Speaker 5: for listening.