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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday, March twenty twenty twenty five students enrolled in

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Speaker 1: a Macquarie University law course were made to roleplay as

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Speaker 1: CEOs and poor children in an exercise designed to highlight

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Speaker 1: their privilege. That revelation comes just days after The Australian

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Speaker 1: reported the students risked failing the subject if they didn't

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Speaker 1: perform a satisfactory acknowledgment of country. A free trade agreement

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Speaker 1: between Australia and the European Union is a no brainer,

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Speaker 1: according to the EU's top diplomat, Gabrielle Visenten, says Europe

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Speaker 1: is a more reliable partner than the US, where President

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has slapped sweeping tariffs on Australian exports. Those

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Speaker 1: stories alive right now at the Australian dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: Another year, another Richest to fifty list and another billionaire breakup.

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Speaker 1: To keep things interesting. The Australian's annual roundup of the

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Speaker 1: nation's wealthiest people is out on Friday today. Who's in

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Speaker 1: the top ten and the return of James Packer. It's

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Speaker 1: my favorite time of the year. The Australian's Richest to

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Speaker 1: fifty list is published on Friday, and editor John Stenzel

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Speaker 1: joins us as he does every year. Who's on top.

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Speaker 2: Gina Reinhardt is on top now. No one's going to

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Speaker 2: be too surprised by that. Now she's worth forty six billion,

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Speaker 2: which's a lot of money, and probably again there's not

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Speaker 2: a massive surprise, but she's actually down a few billion

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Speaker 2: from last year. So if you can say it's been

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Speaker 2: a bad year when you've only lost a few billion

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Speaker 2: dollars and still worth forty six billion, that's where GENA is.

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Speaker 1: The stock market's been going through a lot of volatility,

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Speaker 1: as anyone who's made the mistake of checking their superbalance knows.

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Speaker 1: When you were putting this magazine together, we have to

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Speaker 1: print it a little while before it's released, make things

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Speaker 1: a bit nerve wracking.

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Speaker 2: It's always nerve wracking that way. Like you wonder whether

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Speaker 2: there's people that are going to go out of business,

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Speaker 2: let's hope not. There's going to be people that you

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Speaker 2: might have health issues and all sorts of other things

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Speaker 2: that the permutations of the stock market look. Some stocks

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Speaker 2: are very volatile. The teslas of the world are going

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Speaker 2: up and down very quickly at the moment. You know,

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Speaker 2: Richard White at Weis Tech, you know, lost a few

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Speaker 2: billion dollars in a day just before I went to

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Speaker 2: the printer, so I had to change it. But people

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Speaker 2: like that are still doing very very well. In percentage terms, perhaps,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe they're off a little bit, but in

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Speaker 2: money terms is there's still big, big numbers.

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Speaker 1: I know the billionaires watch this list very closely. In

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Speaker 1: your experience, Are they worried about dropping a few billion

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Speaker 1: here or there? Or they are they pretty relaxed.

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Speaker 2: No, they're worried about it. They really are. They see

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Speaker 2: some sort of a scorecard of their success in business.

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Speaker 2: I think success in life. Their business is very closely

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Speaker 2: connected to who they think they are, their sense of being.

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Speaker 2: I've already had a few text messages from people this

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Speaker 2: week in the lead up to the release on Friday.

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Speaker 2: You know what number am I on the list? How

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Speaker 2: did I go? Where am I? There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: fascination with that, and the ones that say that they

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Speaker 2: don't read it, I know that they're reading it straight

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Speaker 2: away because I usually hear if I've done anything wrong

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Speaker 2: with their entries or there's any issues with the numbers,

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Speaker 2: So I've got it down to what I hope is

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Speaker 2: a pretty fine art in terms of like checking information

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Speaker 2: or at least they know that I'm available in case

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Speaker 2: there's any issues.

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Speaker 1: These people have got a lot of cash to throw around.

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Speaker 1: You could potentially be making a bit on the side here, John,

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Speaker 1: you know, moving someone up and down the list.

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Speaker 2: A bit well clear, there is a lot of journalistic

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Speaker 2: ethics still involved in this list despite the appearances. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know that you think that I've just hanging on

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Speaker 2: super yachts and private jets all the time, But most

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Speaker 2: of the time I'm actually just at my desk beavering

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Speaker 2: away at this list. But look, you know I don't

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Speaker 2: indulge too much, particularly when it's time to put the

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Speaker 2: list together.

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Speaker 1: So I can't be on the list next year, then no.

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Speaker 2: But I mean I probably could sort you out with

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Speaker 2: a super yacht or a jet if you need.

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Speaker 1: Okay, who's in the top ten.

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Speaker 2: Look, you've got people like Harry Trigiboff. He's still going strong,

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Speaker 2: ninety three years old with Meryton. He's worth thirty one billion,

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Speaker 2: so look, he's had a very good year. Property prices

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Speaker 2: are going up. He's got so much property that he

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Speaker 2: wants to build, but you know, he blames government red

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Speaker 2: tape for not doing it and not being able to

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Speaker 2: Mike cannon Brooks Scott Farquhi, the at Lastian co founders.

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Speaker 2: They're both worth about twenty nine billion now. Mike's just

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Speaker 2: ahead of Scott. There's probably a couple of assets that

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Speaker 2: are going a bit better than others. They're both still

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Speaker 2: done a lot of their shares, so they're making a

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Speaker 2: lot of money during the year, you know, taking that

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Speaker 2: add in cash, they usually spend it on Sydney mansions,

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Speaker 2: maybe a private jet here or there. But the Atlastian

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Speaker 2: share bross has done really well.

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Speaker 3: All right, last opening bow of the week coming up,

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Speaker 3: but got enough time for a mad dash and last

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Speaker 3: thank you year.

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Speaker 4: Yep, sure, simple team.

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Speaker 1: I think that people look to enterprise software. When I

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Speaker 1: think about that, you think about Salesforce.

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Speaker 2: Anthony Pratt twenty seven billion, still going strong with cardboard

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Speaker 2: boxes in manufacturing over in the US. Growth is forever,

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Speaker 2: he says. In America, that's where he's spending most of

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Speaker 2: his time these days. He's got a green card now.

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Speaker 2: Clive Palmer about twenty six billion. I'm not sure how

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Speaker 2: much he's going to spend on the election this year,

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Speaker 2: but it's going to be a lot.

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Speaker 4: Gold Coast businessman Clive Palmer is on an advertising splurge,

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Speaker 4: the kind usually reserve for major brands and fast food companies.

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Speaker 2: Again, here's a guy that gets hundreds of millions of

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Speaker 2: dollars in cash every year and he spends a little

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Speaker 2: bit of an elections he reckons, only spends you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe ten or twelve percent of what he makes. Nothing

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Speaker 2: wrong with that, according to him. I think after that,

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Speaker 2: there's probably a couple of interesting ones that listeners will

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Speaker 2: really focus on. Nicola Forest and Andrew Forrest.

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Speaker 1: Now, just to remind everyone, in last year's episode of

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Speaker 1: The Riches two fifty, we talked about how Andrew and

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Speaker 1: Nicola Forrest had recently split up and that you'd had

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Speaker 1: to make the call to split their fortunes when you

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Speaker 1: were ranking them on the list. So how have you

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Speaker 1: handled that this year?

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's been a lot of background checking and a

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Speaker 2: lot of conjecture with this. So it turns out that

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Speaker 2: Nikola actually owns in her own name a parcel of

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Speaker 2: shares in Fortescue, which is the mining giant that Andrew

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Speaker 2: founded and has grown into this huge, amazing iron or

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Speaker 2: mining business. He's also into green energy these days as well.

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Speaker 2: The jury is still out on that.

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Speaker 4: The most advocate for the Albanesi government's green hydrogen plan

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Speaker 4: forced to slam on the brakes and back off a

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Speaker 4: prized target, the iron ore billionaire announcing seven hundred redundancies

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Speaker 4: and a slow down in developing green hydrogen.

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Speaker 2: It's a massive business. They have a lot of joint

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Speaker 2: shareholdings in a whole bunch of investments, including Fortescue. There's Fortescue,

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Speaker 2: there's Tatrang there Private Empire, there's the Philanthropy. All of

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Speaker 2: that is together, but Nikola actually owns about fifty million

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Speaker 2: shares in Fortescue by herself, and that adds up to

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Speaker 2: her being worth about a billion dollars more on paper

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Speaker 2: than Andrew.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she's been very mature about that, not gloating

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 2: No, but I think she's made it pretty clear to

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Speaker 2: me and to others that she wants to be ranked

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Speaker 2: on a list like this in her own right. These days.

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Speaker 4: Good for.

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Speaker 2: We've still got Richard White weisstech. He's been a man

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Speaker 2: who's generated a few headlines this year, a lot of controversy.

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Speaker 2: A few sex scandals are there along the way.

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Speaker 5: Earlier this week, it emerged that wires Tech founder and

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Speaker 5: CEO billion there Richard White, had bought expensive houses for

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Speaker 5: women who was having affairs with and paying them big salaries.

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Speaker 5: Chaer price fell in another six and a half percent,

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Speaker 5: taking the total loss of value to more than eight

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Speaker 5: billion dollars in a week, and tonight Richard White resigned.

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Speaker 1: He's the gift that keeps on giving to journalists.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and he's actually issued a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: mere culpas saying that, yes, there were maybe a couple

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Speaker 2: of issues, but I'm committed to Wistech. This is the

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Speaker 2: software friend that he founded. He's back in charge there.

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Speaker 2: He's worth almost fifteen billion, fourteen point nine billion. It's

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Speaker 2: about five billion more than last year. So even in

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Speaker 2: a bad year, so to speak, off the field, if

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Speaker 2: you want to call it that, he's made a lot

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Speaker 2: of money on it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's even despite their being not just you know,

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Speaker 1: really off field turmoil about his love life, but turmoil

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Speaker 1: within that company itself, for people leaving the board, some

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Speaker 1: ructions about what his role would actually be. How do

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Speaker 1: you think he's feeling about the future.

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Speaker 2: I think he's feeling pretty good because he's back in charge.

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Speaker 2: So he's seen off a lot of the corporate governor's

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Speaker 2: issues in his head that shouldn't apply to him or

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Speaker 2: they are unfair to his reputation. So four directors quit

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Speaker 2: in February from the board. They weren't impressed with what

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Speaker 2: was happening with an internal review into his behavior or

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Speaker 2: other corporate governance issues into the company. He's issued a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a mea culpris, I said this week,

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Speaker 2: and they said, look, I am committed to the future

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Speaker 2: of Wistek. He is firmly back in charge and he

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Speaker 2: thinks he should be the one to drive that company

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Speaker 2: into the future.

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Speaker 1: We'll have to wait until Friday to read the full list,

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Speaker 1: but can you tell us who Richard has pushed out

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Speaker 1: of the top ten?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Well, actually like a Kerry Stokes, and Garry Stokes hasn't

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Speaker 2: had a bad year. There's seven West Media boss he's

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Speaker 2: probably well known as. But Seven Group Holdings is the

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Speaker 2: company that he has and that's a lot of mining

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Speaker 2: equipment and other resources investments. He's had a really good year.

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Speaker 2: He's put on a couple of billion dollars to his wealth,

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Speaker 2: but Richard's just overtaken him and the Canvas Co founders

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Speaker 2: have had this great year as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about Mike and Annie cannon Brooks because

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Speaker 1: they are the big split of this.

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Speaker 3: Year as he takes billionaire Mike canon Brooks is reportedly

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Speaker 3: splitting from his wife after thirteen years of marriage. It

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Speaker 3: comes just a week after news of the country's richest couple,

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Speaker 3: Andrew Twiggy Forrest and his wife Nikola, were also calling

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Speaker 3: it quits.

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Speaker 1: What's going on in terms of their wealth.

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Speaker 2: There will come a time well, I'll have to split

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Speaker 2: that as well. I suspect that's what happens. There's a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of disputes that are going on around a

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Speaker 2: lot of people on the list. At the moment. It's

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Speaker 2: the same with Annie and Mike cannon Brooks. At the moment,

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Speaker 2: it's in Mike's name. The assets are evistly in his name.

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Speaker 2: It's going to come a time where, depending on what happens,

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Speaker 2: she will emerge with a whole big bunch of assets.

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Speaker 2: She'll clearly be a billionaire the way that the attraction's

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Speaker 2: going with what his wealth is. But I wonder whether

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Speaker 2: she will end up with a big shareholding out last

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Speaker 2: year her name too. Watch this Space the First Wife's

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Speaker 2: Club exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, James Packer comes home.

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Speaker 5: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: One of Australia's most famous wealthy families, probably the most beloved,

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Speaker 1: or at least the most well known, is the Packers.

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Speaker 1: James Packer doesn't live in Australia anymore, but he clearly

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Speaker 1: still has a fondness for Australian investments and Australian business.

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Speaker 1: He cares what's happening in his life.

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Speaker 2: There's a few themes that have come out since James

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Speaker 2: sold out of Crown Casino a few years ago for

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Speaker 2: about three odd billion dollars. He's going into technology investments

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Speaker 2: in America. He's been a big investor in Navideo and

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Speaker 2: also Taiwan Semiconducting company, so he's sort of seeing the

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Speaker 2: future with computer chips, at Ai a couple of other

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Speaker 2: technology investments. He's also investing in companies of people that

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Speaker 2: he used to know through Crown that are building apartments

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Speaker 2: and other property projects here in Australia. It's quite a

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Speaker 2: change for him. He's also back in the movie industry

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Speaker 2: as well. Rat pack which was the name that he

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Speaker 2: was associated with. It's probably a decade ago now that

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Speaker 2: he sunk a lot of money into Let's face it,

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Speaker 2: he lost a lot of money into it. He's back

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Speaker 2: in that with his business partner, Brett Ratner. They've put

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Speaker 2: the money behind movie of Lannia Trump.

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Speaker 3: She's largely treated as an ornament to.

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Speaker 1: Donald she's a trophy wife.

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Speaker 2: But I think to Malania herself.

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Speaker 3: No, I absolutely think that fashion is used as a

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Speaker 3: political weapon.

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Speaker 2: So that's on Amazon and it's been doing very well,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's going to be extremely profitable.

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Speaker 4: So he's back.

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Speaker 2: He says he's had the best year he's had for

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Speaker 2: quite a while. I think he means that in money terms.

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Speaker 2: He looks pretty happy as well. So you just never

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Speaker 2: know with James. He's had his ups and downs over

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Speaker 2: the years, but he seems to be in a pretty

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Speaker 2: good space at the moment.

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Speaker 1: He's obviously someone who's capable of looking over the horizon.

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Speaker 1: Do you send some strategy behind financing a movie about

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Speaker 1: the president's wife.

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Speaker 2: He's turned up at mar Lago, as we all have,

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Speaker 2: haven't we. Claire and I've been there myself, and it's

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Speaker 2: a whole nother story for another time. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: brought him into the orbit of I suppose, of the

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Speaker 2: all powerful Trump family at the moment. As to how

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Speaker 2: much he exploits that for business terms, it remains to

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Speaker 2: be seen. He doesn't have an operating business these days

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Speaker 2: that could be not necessarily used or could benefit from

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Speaker 2: Trump policies. But you know, look, if you keep yourself

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Speaker 2: pretty close to power, things tend to happen.

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Speaker 1: At Trump's inauguration, the tech billionaires were lined up behind

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Speaker 1: him looking like they were fully on board with the

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Speaker 1: restoration of Donald What are you sense from the Australian billionaires.

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Speaker 1: Are they watching what's coming out of the White House warily?

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Speaker 1: Are they excited about this new generation?

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Speaker 2: I think it's a bit of a mixed bag at

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Speaker 2: the moment. I think they're keeping pretty quiet at the moment,

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Speaker 2: given a lot of them has green credentials or some

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Speaker 2: pretty progressive hiring policies and that sort of thing. I

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Speaker 2: think at the end of the day, though, you can

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Speaker 2: start to see that they're increasingly all about, you know,

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Speaker 2: what's best for their company. If they can see that

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Speaker 2: they need to pivot a certain way to keep their

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Speaker 2: fortunes or to make even more money. I really think

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Speaker 2: that they will. These guys, and they're mostly guys except

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Speaker 2: for people like Melanie Perkins and Robin Denham, who's, by

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Speaker 2: the way, the sheriff of Tesla, with Earlon Musk as

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Speaker 2: one of the people that she's supposedly in charge of.

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Speaker 2: I think they're pretty pragmatic is the word I'm looking for,

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Speaker 2: so they will sniff the breeze pretty quickly when it

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Speaker 2: comes to policy Australia or in America where they are

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Speaker 2: operating a lot of their businesses.

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Speaker 1: John Stenzelt is the editor of the list Australia's Riches

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Speaker 1: two fifty. You can hear John on our sister podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Money Puzzle with our Wealth editor James Kirby, talking

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Speaker 1: about the volatile fortunes of those tech billionaires. The full

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Speaker 1: list is out on Friday. You can check it out

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Speaker 1: and read all the features and analysis at The Australian

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au