1 00:00:04,110 --> 00:00:07,710 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. Regional 2 00:00:07,710 --> 00:00:10,980 Sean Aylmer: Australia is home to more than 9 million people and 3 00:00:10,980 --> 00:00:14,730 Sean Aylmer: accounts for around a third of the national workforce generating 4 00:00:14,730 --> 00:00:19,500 Sean Aylmer: about 40% of Australia's economic output. But it comes with 5 00:00:19,650 --> 00:00:24,569 Sean Aylmer: a unique set of challenges. Distance, infrastructure, natural disasters, just 6 00:00:24,570 --> 00:00:26,670 Sean Aylmer: to name a few. I wanted to look today at 7 00:00:26,670 --> 00:00:29,760 Sean Aylmer: the future of regional Australia, how it's changing and what 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,449 Sean Aylmer: needs to happen to maximize the economic potential of our 9 00:00:33,450 --> 00:00:37,680 Sean Aylmer: regions. Liz Ritchie is the CEO of the Regional Australia 10 00:00:37,710 --> 00:00:39,690 Sean Aylmer: Institute. Liz, welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:40,380 --> 00:00:42,240 Liz Ritchie: Thanks for having me. Great to be here. 12 00:00:42,630 --> 00:00:44,100 Sean Aylmer: I did go through some of the stats at the 13 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:48,150 Sean Aylmer: beginning, but just explain what Regional Australia is and where 14 00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:51,420 Sean Aylmer: Remote Australia fits into that and kind of also how 15 00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:53,309 Sean Aylmer: we should think about the urban fringes. 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,590 Liz Ritchie: Absolutely. Look, there isn't one set definition. That's probably a 17 00:00:58,590 --> 00:01:02,580 Liz Ritchie: reasonable starting point, but as Australia's only institute dedicated to 18 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:07,110 Liz Ritchie: rural and regional Australia, our definition is anything outside of 19 00:01:07,110 --> 00:01:10,830 Liz Ritchie: the major capital cities. But as you've rightly pointed out, 20 00:01:11,130 --> 00:01:14,850 Liz Ritchie: when we talk regional, we also talk rural and remote 21 00:01:15,180 --> 00:01:20,970 Liz Ritchie: and it's anything homogenous. Regional Australia is so diverse and 22 00:01:20,970 --> 00:01:25,259 Liz Ritchie: that's really what makes our work so important but equally 23 00:01:25,260 --> 00:01:29,640 Liz Ritchie: so interesting. Because it's home to more than, as you've 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,190 Liz Ritchie: rightly pointed out, more than 9 million people, and that 25 00:01:32,190 --> 00:01:35,520 Liz Ritchie: number is set to grow and we have at least 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,370 Liz Ritchie: a third of the national workforce. And we believe there's 27 00:01:38,370 --> 00:01:41,100 Liz Ritchie: a really big shift on the horizon and we have 28 00:01:41,100 --> 00:01:46,380 Liz Ritchie: an opportunity like never before to capitalize on that opportunity 29 00:01:46,380 --> 00:01:49,920 Liz Ritchie: for rural and regional Australia, which will have benefits for 30 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:50,790 Liz Ritchie: the whole nation. 31 00:01:51,210 --> 00:01:55,200 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Do you think regional Australia gets a fair, rural 32 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,000 Sean Aylmer: and regional Australia gets a fair go? 33 00:01:58,380 --> 00:01:59,670 Liz Ritchie: Look, it's a loaded question. 34 00:01:59,670 --> 00:01:59,790 Sean Aylmer: It is. 35 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,630 Liz Ritchie: Look, I think there is so much more that we 36 00:02:06,630 --> 00:02:11,010 Liz Ritchie: can be doing and unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, it's a 37 00:02:11,010 --> 00:02:15,780 Liz Ritchie: very challenging area in terms of the issues that we 38 00:02:15,780 --> 00:02:19,080 Liz Ritchie: see in rural and regional Australia. And so we'll be 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,630 Liz Ritchie: getting into this, but the regional, and this is why 40 00:02:21,630 --> 00:02:26,669 Liz Ritchie: we did the work within the regionalization ambition because what 41 00:02:26,669 --> 00:02:30,900 Liz Ritchie: we've continued to see is a sectoral, siloed approach to 42 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:34,560 Liz Ritchie: regional development, which means that none of the issues that 43 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,230 Liz Ritchie: are absolutely cross- cutting and intersecting are being addressed simultaneously. 44 00:02:40,650 --> 00:02:45,870 Liz Ritchie: And so without addressing them in a sort of systemic systemized 45 00:02:45,870 --> 00:02:49,859 Liz Ritchie: way, you continue to have these inequities. And I guess 46 00:02:49,860 --> 00:02:53,310 Liz Ritchie: that is what comes through in the ambition that in 47 00:02:53,310 --> 00:02:56,610 Liz Ritchie: many respects, whether we like it or not, parts of 48 00:02:56,610 --> 00:03:00,000 Liz Ritchie: rural and regional in Australia, not everywhere because it's so diverse, 49 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:05,010 Liz Ritchie: but parts are very much lagging. And we do have 50 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,100 Liz Ritchie: those inequities that have been in place for a long 51 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:12,690 Liz Ritchie: time, be it education attainment, be it health outcomes. We 52 00:03:12,690 --> 00:03:15,630 Liz Ritchie: know that there are entrenched issues that need addressing. 53 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:18,630 Sean Aylmer: But very difficult. I mean, I grew up in Central West New 54 00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:22,650 Sean Aylmer: South Wales and I went to Sydney to go to 55 00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:25,950 Sean Aylmer: university and kind of never left, and many of my 56 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:29,730 Sean Aylmer: peers did exactly the same thing. It is very difficult 57 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,119 Sean Aylmer: to address some of the stuff you are talking about. 58 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,730 Sean Aylmer: It might be infrastructure. So it might be roads, it 59 00:03:35,730 --> 00:03:38,880 Sean Aylmer: actually might be telecommunications, it might be a health network. 60 00:03:39,420 --> 00:03:42,690 Sean Aylmer: The facilities to look after kids that are two years 61 00:03:42,690 --> 00:03:45,780 Sean Aylmer: old and aged that are 90 years old in the 62 00:03:45,780 --> 00:03:50,130 Sean Aylmer: country, certainly they don't have the resourcing as in the city and 63 00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:52,470 Sean Aylmer: on a needs basis, it's really hard to solve this. 64 00:03:53,190 --> 00:03:56,730 Liz Ritchie: We couldn't agree with you more, and this is why the 65 00:03:56,730 --> 00:04:00,630 Liz Ritchie: formation of the institute was a pivotal step. And look, 66 00:04:00,630 --> 00:04:03,510 Liz Ritchie: we we like to think of ourselves as 11 years 67 00:04:03,510 --> 00:04:09,480 Liz Ritchie: young, and these are really complex issues that require the 68 00:04:09,510 --> 00:04:12,840 Liz Ritchie: whole of government and a bipartisan approach. I mean, we 69 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,600 Liz Ritchie: want to remove the politics from this. We want to 70 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,349 Liz Ritchie: ensure that there's a shoulder to shoulder collective and collaborative 71 00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:24,299 Liz Ritchie: action with industry, with regional communities and with government, but 72 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:28,409 Liz Ritchie: it needs a whole of government approach. And we can't 73 00:04:28,410 --> 00:04:32,310 Liz Ritchie: just run the opportunities through the Department of Regional Development. 74 00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:35,010 Liz Ritchie: We need to look at how we have a strategy 75 00:04:35,010 --> 00:04:38,190 Liz Ritchie: for regional Australia that's led by our prime minister. We 76 00:04:38,190 --> 00:04:40,529 Liz Ritchie: know that he doesn't want to leave anyone behind and 77 00:04:40,529 --> 00:04:44,940 Liz Ritchie: here's an exceptional opportunity for our new government to undertake 78 00:04:44,940 --> 00:04:48,120 Liz Ritchie: a different way to approach regional development. 79 00:04:48,990 --> 00:04:52,409 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So what are you talking about specifically? What are the things that you 80 00:04:52,410 --> 00:04:55,260 Sean Aylmer: would like to see the government, whichever government's in at 81 00:04:55,260 --> 00:04:57,210 Sean Aylmer: the time, what do you want them to do? 82 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,320 Liz Ritchie: Well, first and foremost, I mean we've outlined this in 83 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,669 Liz Ritchie: our regionalization ambition. We've got five pillars looking at whether 84 00:05:05,670 --> 00:05:12,120 Liz Ritchie: it's population, jobs and skills, livability, innovation, productivity or sustainability 85 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,510 Liz Ritchie: and resilience. And this is our framework. I imagine a 86 00:05:15,510 --> 00:05:18,540 Liz Ritchie: government would approach it in its own way, but the 87 00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:21,630 Liz Ritchie: opportunity is to look at each of those pillars and 88 00:05:22,050 --> 00:05:25,890 Liz Ritchie: work through where are we being held back. So if 89 00:05:25,890 --> 00:05:30,900 Liz Ritchie: you're thinking about digital inclusion within livability, we know that 90 00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:34,859 Liz Ritchie: regional Australia lags in terms of digital inclusion. So what 91 00:05:34,860 --> 00:05:36,630 Liz Ritchie: is it that we need to do as a government 92 00:05:36,630 --> 00:05:40,200 Liz Ritchie: to approach that? Equally when we talk jobs and skills, 93 00:05:40,230 --> 00:05:44,700 Liz Ritchie: we've got an enormous investment and work being done across 94 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:48,600 Liz Ritchie: the nation in a very collaborative way on jobs and 95 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,660 Liz Ritchie: skills, but there isn't a strong regional lens to any 96 00:05:51,660 --> 00:05:54,630 Liz Ritchie: of this conversation. In the same light, we talk a 97 00:05:54,630 --> 00:05:58,770 Liz Ritchie: lot about international migration. We've seen an uplift in numbers. 98 00:05:58,830 --> 00:06:02,580 Liz Ritchie: This is incredibly important. We've also seen an uplift in 99 00:06:02,670 --> 00:06:07,080 Liz Ritchie: the allocations towards regional areas for regional visas. This is 100 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,570 Liz Ritchie: great, but we need to see more. So wherever there 101 00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:12,810 Liz Ritchie: is uplift and wherever there are new policies, we want 102 00:06:12,810 --> 00:06:16,410 Liz Ritchie: to ensure that there is a strategy that looks at 103 00:06:16,410 --> 00:06:20,070 Liz Ritchie: all of these issues through a regional lens as opposed 104 00:06:20,070 --> 00:06:24,000 Liz Ritchie: to an agricultural lens, a mining lens, a jobs and 105 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,719 Liz Ritchie: skills lens. It has to have a regional strategy that 106 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,500 Liz Ritchie: is holistic and looks at these issues in a simultaneous 107 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:34,920 Liz Ritchie: way because you can't get the people that you need 108 00:06:35,190 --> 00:06:37,860 Liz Ritchie: to fill the jobs if you don't have the housing 109 00:06:38,130 --> 00:06:39,690 Liz Ritchie: to support them in their move. 110 00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:42,030 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Liz. We'll be back in a minute. 111 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,210 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Liz Ritchie, CEO of the Regional 112 00:06:51,210 --> 00:06:54,930 Sean Aylmer: Australia Institute. What about the pandemic? Did it make a 113 00:06:54,930 --> 00:06:58,320 Sean Aylmer: difference? We heard all about the tree changes and sea 114 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,740 Sean Aylmer: changes, and certainly I have friends who moved out of 115 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:07,500 Sean Aylmer: cities to commute happily or telecommute. Has that made a difference? 116 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:11,550 Liz Ritchie: Look, I think it's made a huge difference in that 117 00:07:11,910 --> 00:07:16,110 Liz Ritchie: for the first time we saw a seismic shift in 118 00:07:16,110 --> 00:07:19,590 Liz Ritchie: the way we as a society thought about work. So 119 00:07:19,590 --> 00:07:23,220 Liz Ritchie: as an institute, we've been advocating for remote and flexible 120 00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:28,620 Liz Ritchie: work since our genesis, but that's been slow. We as 121 00:07:28,620 --> 00:07:31,530 Liz Ritchie: a nation have been very slow when you even look 122 00:07:31,530 --> 00:07:34,800 Liz Ritchie: across the globe and how big businesses work for a 123 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,970 Liz Ritchie: long time in Europe and other countries. So Australia really 124 00:07:38,970 --> 00:07:43,860 Liz Ritchie: was lagging and unfortunately it's taken a global pandemic to 125 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:46,320 Liz Ritchie: bring us up to speed and so we don't want 126 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,200 Liz Ritchie: to go backwards. We know that the numbers that we've 127 00:07:49,230 --> 00:07:52,050 Liz Ritchie: seen leaving, people have been voting with their feet, and 128 00:07:52,380 --> 00:07:55,770 Liz Ritchie: our research has told us that one in five Australians 129 00:07:55,770 --> 00:07:58,200 Liz Ritchie: want to make that move. They want to get out 130 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,620 Liz Ritchie: of the city and the congestion. They want less debt 131 00:08:01,620 --> 00:08:05,220 Liz Ritchie: and they want less anxiety. And they see living in 132 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:08,580 Liz Ritchie: rural and regional Australia as a huge opportunity for them 133 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:12,270 Liz Ritchie: to get the life they've dreamt of whilst maintaining their career. 134 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,570 Sean Aylmer: That last part is really important. I mean, you can 135 00:08:15,570 --> 00:08:18,000 Sean Aylmer: buy a house in regional Australia much cheaper than a 136 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,300 Sean Aylmer: capital city, extremely livable. If you've got kids, it's a 137 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:24,570 Sean Aylmer: fantastic place and often education in certain cities and they've 138 00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:28,260 Sean Aylmer: got great schools and things like that. But if you 139 00:08:28,260 --> 00:08:33,270 Sean Aylmer: can maintain your job, employment opportunities seem to be a 140 00:08:33,270 --> 00:08:34,680 Sean Aylmer: really critical part of this. 141 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,949 Liz Ritchie: Well, I mean the good news is that there are 142 00:08:37,950 --> 00:08:41,700 Liz Ritchie: more jobs in regional Australia than there's ever been before. 143 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:46,950 Liz Ritchie: I mean, prior to Christmas, we just tipped under 100, 000 144 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:51,900 Liz Ritchie: jobs available, and these are advertised jobs, and the majority 145 00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:57,090 Liz Ritchie: of those jobs are professional, well- paid positions. So that 146 00:08:57,090 --> 00:09:00,540 Liz Ritchie: dimension is very much available for those willing and wanting 147 00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:03,270 Liz Ritchie: to make the move and have their job in situ. 148 00:09:03,690 --> 00:09:07,830 Liz Ritchie: So there's an enormous opportunity there. To your point about 149 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:12,300 Liz Ritchie: somebody moving with their current role and continuing to advance 150 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:15,390 Liz Ritchie: their career, we've still got some work to do. We've 151 00:09:15,390 --> 00:09:21,150 Liz Ritchie: got some big corporate organizations leading the charge here. Some 152 00:09:21,150 --> 00:09:25,890 Liz Ritchie: of our corporate members like Telstra have work from anywhere 153 00:09:25,890 --> 00:09:30,900 Liz Ritchie: policies. KPMG, all roles, flex, et cetera. We see other 154 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:36,120 Liz Ritchie: organizations like Atlassian, location agnostic. So we've got some big 155 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,780 Liz Ritchie: brands really leading the charge here, but there are others 156 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:43,740 Liz Ritchie: lagging and there is a debate about time in office 157 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:47,010 Liz Ritchie: and time face- to- face, and I know what it's 158 00:09:47,010 --> 00:09:50,189 Liz Ritchie: like to work remote. I have a team and manage 159 00:09:50,190 --> 00:09:53,309 Liz Ritchie: a remote team because I have a diverse and spread 160 00:09:53,309 --> 00:09:58,979 Liz Ritchie: team across the country. And it is quite personal, what 161 00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:01,650 Liz Ritchie: works for one person doesn't work for another, and it's 162 00:10:01,650 --> 00:10:05,280 Liz Ritchie: a transition. It's a change, but it's certainly not impossible. 163 00:10:05,550 --> 00:10:08,940 Liz Ritchie: And if the individual, the employee and the employer are 164 00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:12,180 Liz Ritchie: motivated and communicating there's no way that it shouldn't work. 165 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,390 Sean Aylmer: What about I suppose for me, if I think of 166 00:10:15,390 --> 00:10:18,990 Sean Aylmer: moving back to the country, medical services, and again, I 167 00:10:18,990 --> 00:10:21,990 Sean Aylmer: think of lots of current issues, things like mental health 168 00:10:21,990 --> 00:10:25,650 Sean Aylmer: services and things like that are difficult to access in 169 00:10:25,650 --> 00:10:28,920 Sean Aylmer: some country towns and then education. And I think education 170 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,040 Sean Aylmer: is probably improving, but I don't know, I suppose they 171 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,260 Sean Aylmer: worry me. I mean, what should we be doing to 172 00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:36,600 Sean Aylmer: improve those services in regional Australia? 173 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:40,860 Liz Ritchie: Well, to your point, I mean they are a worry 174 00:10:40,860 --> 00:10:43,170 Liz Ritchie: and we do know, and we highlight this in our ambition, 175 00:10:44,610 --> 00:10:47,850 Liz Ritchie: but they are changing as well. So here again, health 176 00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:52,469 Liz Ritchie: services. I mean, we're headquartered out of Canberra and I 177 00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:55,710 Liz Ritchie: live here with my family and it's impossible to get into 178 00:10:55,710 --> 00:10:59,040 Liz Ritchie: a GP for two weeks. So it's not a situation 179 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,179 Liz Ritchie: that is only being felt by regional Australians. I think 180 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:06,120 Liz Ritchie: we know across the country we've got a jobs and 181 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,470 Liz Ritchie: skills issue and trying to meet the demand of the 182 00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:16,589 Liz Ritchie: services is a big issue for our political leaders and 183 00:11:16,590 --> 00:11:19,800 Liz Ritchie: for all of us invested in this. When it comes 184 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,939 Liz Ritchie: to delivery of health and health services, I think we've 185 00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:29,130 Liz Ritchie: made some advancements because of Covid. Again, it's that flexible remote delivery. 186 00:11:29,490 --> 00:11:32,550 Liz Ritchie: And I don't think telehealth or virtual health is the 187 00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:35,939 Liz Ritchie: answer to everything, but I do think that technology and 188 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:40,530 Liz Ritchie: digital access is a huge enabler and we've got to 189 00:11:40,530 --> 00:11:43,620 Liz Ritchie: embrace that and we've got to continue to invest in 190 00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:45,329 Liz Ritchie: that digital access. 191 00:11:46,050 --> 00:11:47,820 Sean Aylmer: Liz, good luck with it. And thank you for talking 192 00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:48,719 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 193 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:50,429 Liz Ritchie: Thank you for having me. 194 00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:54,480 Sean Aylmer: That was Liz Richie, CEO of the Regional Australia Institute. 195 00:11:54,570 --> 00:11:56,610 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us 196 00:11:56,610 --> 00:11:58,860 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed. 197 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:02,490 Sean Aylmer: Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.