1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gatigel 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. This episode contains discussion of suicide. 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 2: If this raises any issues for you, support is available through. 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: The links and phone numbers in the show notes. Hello, 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 3: An absolutely huge week in the news this week. Possibly, 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 3: as a certain former US president might say, you just 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 3: ever that sounded like Arnie. 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: Didn't ever sound like Donald Trump anyway. 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 3: Yes, it is the big presidential debate, the showdown we've 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 3: all been waiting for between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 3: It is all that anyone is talking about, except possibly 13 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 3: the fact that the revolution may have broken out in Melbourne. Yes, 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 3: the revolution may not be televised, but it will be. 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 3: On this podcast. I'll be breaking down what is going 16 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 3: on in the People's Republic of Victoria. They've already got 17 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 3: a socialist government and the socialists still aren't happy. Plus 18 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 3: we have two megastories in the Federal Parliament this week, 19 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: to huge, huge stories that I thought were going to 20 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 3: be the two biggest stories of the week until they 21 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 3: were eclipsed by those other big two stories I just 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 3: told you about. And we'll be talking about those two. 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: First up this week, though, I'm going to introduce you 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 3: to a neat little trick called the rope of dope. 25 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 3: And this is something that, against all expectations, I think 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 3: it is fair to say Kamala Harris managed to pull 27 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 3: off in the Great Presidential Debate. Now, the lead up 28 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: to this debate was extraordinary. Donald Trump even had his 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 3: sentencing postponed for election fraud or campaign finance fraud or 30 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: whatever the hell it was that they trumped up against him. 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: Even that was postponed because everyone was too excited about 32 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: the debate. It was absolutely huge. It was on ABC 33 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: News and had millions and millions and millions of eyeballs, 34 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: including even my four year old daughter for a while. 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: I don't think she was particularly impressed, but she watched 36 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: it anyway. Now, this should have been Donald Trump's chance 37 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 3: to sort of pounce like the lion onto the mouse 38 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 3: of Karrmala Harris. And this is what a lot of 39 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 3: his supporters were expecting and hoping. It comes against the 40 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 3: backdop of Donald Trump actually climbing in the polls. A 41 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 3: New York Times Siena Pole just days before the debate 42 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 3: had Donald Trump edging ahead of Kamala Harris in the 43 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 3: national polls about forty eight to forty seven. Absolutely nothing 44 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 3: in it, but still it shows that Donald Trump, after 45 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: the honeymoon period, after the kamalamentum, after the convention bounce, 46 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 3: that she was starting to trail ever so slightly, and 47 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: Donald Trump's numbers were starting to pick up ever so slightly. 48 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: They were also neck and neck in. 49 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: All those big swing states, especially of course Pennsylvania, which 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 3: is must win for both of them. Effectively, whoever wins 51 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: Pennsylvania will win the presidential election. And again there there's 52 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 3: just nothing between them, just one or two percent. It's extraordinary. 53 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: And against this they have this debate, and the debate 54 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 3: itself was the most phenomenal example of what to do 55 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 3: and what not to do. And I'll take you through it, 56 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 3: bit by bit, and I'll take you right up to 57 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 3: the moment where Donald Trump lost the first and probably 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: only presidential debate between him and Kamala Harris and possibly 59 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 3: also lost the US presidential election. Now, let's take it 60 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 3: to early on in the debate, about ten minutes or 61 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: so in Kamala Harris is appallingly nervous. She is clinging 62 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 3: to various talking points that she's clearly been prepped for 63 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: by her aids. She's apparently spent so much time and 64 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 3: energy preparing for this that she even matched the venue 65 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 3: and matched the lighting of the debate stage so that 66 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 3: she wouldn't get thrown by you know, I don't know 67 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: what too much aperture. Anyway, she's incredibly nervous. You' got 68 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: an incredibly dry mouse. She says the word actually over 69 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: and over again. Here she is trying to go on 70 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 3: the offensive against Donald Trump. She says, Donald Trump has 71 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: no plan. 72 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 4: Have a listen, the best economists in our country, if 73 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 4: not the world, have reviewed our relative plans for the 74 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 4: future of America. What Goldman Sachs has said is that 75 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 4: Donald Trump's plan would make the economy worse. Mine would 76 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 4: strengthen the economy. What the Wharton School has said is 77 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 4: Donald Trump's plan would actually explode the deficit. 78 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 3: Yes, there you go, and Kamala Harris even says that 79 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: her economic plans are endorsed by Goldman Sachs. I'm not 80 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 3: sure if she was around for the last Great financial crisis, 81 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 3: but Goldman Sachs endorsing you probably isn't going to go 82 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: too well in the rust Belt States after their previous form. 83 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, on the other hand, is far more natural. 84 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: He's far more pugnacious, and again he's not speaking from 85 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 3: any pre prepared kind of talking points, although I guarantee 86 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: you that he had this Zinger in his back pocket 87 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 3: ready to pull out. 88 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 5: She doesn't have a plan. She copied Baden's plan. And 89 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 5: it's like four sentences like run spot. 90 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 3: Run ah, run spot run. Now that is a bill 91 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 3: shortened Zinger as played by the Great Man, and on 92 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 3: and on it went, with Kamala Harris not making any mistakes, 93 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: but sounding very nervous, sounding not quite sure of herself, 94 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 3: always sounding like she's asking herself a question about whether 95 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 3: or not it's something she really believes in, with that 96 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 3: upper inflection at the end of a sentence, like I 97 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 3: really believe in economic opportunity. It's like, don't I Is 98 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 3: that what I'm meant to say? And Donald Trump is 99 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 3: just in there going bang bang bang, It's all lies. 100 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: Everything you're saying is lies. I was great around, the 101 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 3: greatest economy ever, we did everything the best ever. 102 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: You're an idiot whatever. Whatever. 103 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: Now Donald Trump at first is relatively controlled for him 104 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: at least, and he's sticking to the issues. He's turning 105 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 3: things back on Karmala Harris on her record as president, 106 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 3: accusing her of making stuff up about him. Now, a 107 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 3: lot of it is just fantasy, but sounds really plausible. 108 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 3: And it's as you know, George Costanza from Seinfeld said, 109 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: it's not a lie if you believe it. And Trump 110 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: has clearly convinced himself of all these things, and so 111 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 3: he believes it and he makes the audience believe it. 112 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: It's like when you're in school band or in the choir, 113 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 3: you know, you make a mistake, and the teacher to 114 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,239 Speaker 3: conductor always says, just keep going and smile. The audience 115 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: will think you meant it. That's what Donald Trump does. 116 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 3: He just keeps going. He just says it, and he 117 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 3: believes it, and sooner or later the audience believes it. 118 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: But then Karla does something which clearly was part of 119 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 3: her advisor's tactics for this debate. Clearly they knew that 120 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: if they could pull this off, they might just get 121 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: a bit of an edge. But I don't think even 122 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 3: they would have dreamed in their wildest fantasies just how 123 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 3: amazingly brilliant it worked. Kamala Harris. She actually says to 124 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 3: the public out there watching go to of Donald Trump's rallies, 125 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: they're not very good. 126 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: Have a listen. 127 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 4: I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald 128 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 4: Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch. 129 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 4: You will see during the course of his rallies he 130 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 4: talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter, he will talk 131 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 4: about Win Mills, clause cancer. And what you will also 132 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 4: notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out 133 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 4: of exhaustion and boredom. 134 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: Now that is cold, man. 135 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, criticize a man for his policies, fine, 136 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 3: his age, his looks, no problem, but touch a man's rallies. 137 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: But this is the thing, isn't it. It should have 138 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: been the least important thing that Donald Trump took exception too. 139 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: It should have been the most banal thing that she 140 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: could have said. Ah, but you know, people don't like 141 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 3: your rallies. And also, you know, you're horribly cruel to 142 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 3: illegal immigrants, and you nearly got us into war with China, 143 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 3: or you love dictators or whatever. She says all this 144 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 3: horrible stuff about him, But it's the rally stuff that 145 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 3: really gets in because that goes straight to his ego, 146 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: straight to his man who's straight to his fully powers. 147 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: As though someone said to someone who says you're a rapist, 148 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 3: you're a pedophile, you're a murderer, and you're terrible at 149 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 3: reverse parking, and the person said, hang on a minute, 150 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: how dare you say I'm bad at reverse parking? And 151 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: this is exactly what Donald Trump does. He takes the bait. 152 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 3: He takes the bait about his rallies, and then in 153 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: defending himself about what a great rally performer he is 154 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 3: and how great his rallies are and how much everybody 155 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: loves them, he starts to almost talk as though he's 156 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 3: at a rally, starts to almost forget that he's in 157 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 3: a presidential debate on mainstream for You to Wear network 158 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 3: television in the US, and starts to talk like he's 159 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: actually at one of his rallies. And so he starts 160 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 3: to go down this rabbit hole of all these illegal 161 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 3: immigrants coming in and running right throughout all these cities, 162 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: including one in the Midwest. And this is where he 163 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 3: makes his fateful and possibly fatal error. He just goes 164 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: that one step too far have listened in Springfield. 165 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 5: They're eating the dogs the people that came in, They're 166 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 5: eating the cats, they're eating they're eating the pets of 167 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 5: the people that live there. And this is what's happening 168 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 5: in our country. And it's a shame. 169 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: Yes, the illegals are eating your pets. 170 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: Now, the minute that happened, that was all anyone was 171 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: taking out from the debate, and all of Trump's zingers, 172 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: he's gotcha moments, he's big, you know, fake with the left, 173 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 3: swing with the right, all of that was instantly forgotten 174 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: because all anyone could think of was the image of 175 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 3: people going around, running around, stealing dogs and cats from 176 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: other people's backyards and barbecuing them as if they were 177 00:09:59,080 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 3: Robert F. 178 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: Kennedy or something. 179 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: Right, This is just not an image that leaves your 180 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: head lightly. And it is the only image of the 181 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 3: debate that people have been left with, and it is 182 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 3: an image they are going to associate with Donald Trump, 183 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 3: probably from now right up until polling day in just 184 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: over fifty days time. And that is how in just 185 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 3: half an hour, Donald Trump went from almost a two 186 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 3: to one probability according to Nate Silver, the electoral polling. 187 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: Genius of the United States. 188 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 3: Just on the eve of the debate, he said Trump 189 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: was about sixty four percent probable to win the election. 190 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 3: I reckon by the time that image of all those 191 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 3: people eating cats and dogs, that Donald Trump swears he 192 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: saw on television, by the time that does the rounds 193 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: a couple of times, maybe a couple of million times. 194 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that number will be the same now. 195 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: Of course, the other big still today, at least in. 196 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: This part of the world, was the fact that a 197 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 3: revolution may or may not have broken out in the 198 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: sunny southern city of Melbourne. This is, of course all 199 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: the protesters from very good question. 200 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: Who knows. 201 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 3: They're from all over the place. They're pro Palestine, they're 202 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: pro Russia, they're anti climate change, they're just everything. They're anarchists, 203 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: they're socialists, the usual sort of grab bag all in 204 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 3: devotion to the Omnichus. But these guys are a little 205 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: bit kind of scarier. They're a bit anti fur. They're 206 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: all wearing masks. I mean, they're still very skinny and 207 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 3: keep getting knocked over by police officers. But you know, 208 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 3: they seem to be a little bit more all in 209 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 3: than just your usual rent a crowd kind of noodle 210 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: armed hipsters who are gluing themselves to freeways and bridges 211 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: and cranes and. 212 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: The usual sort of stuff. 213 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: These guys seem to touch more angry. They're setting fire 214 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: to stuff, which I'm pretty sure causes CO two emissions. 215 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: Why are they doing this, Well, they're doing this because 216 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 3: there is a little biennial get together in Melbourne called 217 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: the Land Forces Expo, and it's basically where all the 218 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 3: great and the good of the Australian defense industry sector 219 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 3: gets together and say, hey, we've got all this cool 220 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 3: technology shit. 221 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: Do you want to buy it? 222 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 3: And you know, like fire some drones somewhere or you 223 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: know and do whatever, you know, nukes, you know, do 224 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 3: you want to bomb someone? Point being. This is something 225 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: that happens all the time. It used to happen in 226 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 3: Brisbane every two years. It now is happening in Melbourne 227 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 3: for the first time. They poached that major event, just 228 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 3: like the Grand Prix. Didn't that work out well? And 229 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 3: now they've got thousands of these ferrels just going ape 230 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: shit in the streets of Melbourne and screaming and picking 231 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: fights with police. Apparently they're hurling manure as I said, 232 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 3: they're also setting fire of rubbish bins, and not just 233 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 3: the proper kind of you know, oil tanks that can 234 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 3: get a decent blaze going. They're firing the wheelie bins, 235 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 3: the plastic ones. They're just melting. It's like the worst 236 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 3: kind of polluting smoke that you can possibly imagine. And 237 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 3: these guys are doing it, and of course they're doing 238 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: it all in the name of peace and climate change, 239 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: and just it just makes no sense. It makes no 240 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 3: sense whatsoever for the one thing. Who are they trying 241 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: to appeal to. Who was going to say, you know what, 242 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: I was really pro war, you know, I was really 243 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: pro Israel. And then I saw some feral hippie with 244 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 3: dreadlocks set fight or really been chuck some horseshit at 245 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 3: a police officer, and I thought, I've really got to 246 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 3: start to sit down and question my value system. They're 247 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 3: not changing anybody's mind, they're not even trying to change 248 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 3: anybody's mind. This is all about people showing hell. 249 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: You know, I was there, man, I was there fighting 250 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: for climate change. I was there fighting for bad. 251 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 3: And it doesn't matter what you're fighting for. As Bob 252 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 3: Dylan said, it's all about the hunk and not the butter. 253 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 3: Someone asked him, say, do you believe in the cause 254 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: for peace? What are you talking about? Do I believe 255 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: in peace or the cause for peace? It's like saying, 256 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 3: do you believe in butter or the hunk of butter? 257 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 3: I believe in the butter, not the hunk. If anyone 258 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 3: stoned enough to make sense of that, please write into us. 259 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 3: They don't care about the outcomes of what they do. 260 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 3: All they care about is the fact that they're there 261 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 3: making a lot of noise, making a well, there's a 262 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: four letter word to say what they're making of themselves, 263 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 3: but let's just say making a nuisance of themselves and 264 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: not achieving anything. In fact, they're probably turning any normal 265 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 3: person off their cause, whatever it may be. And of 266 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: course they're showing from the fact that they're bringing all 267 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 3: sorts of different things into it, from you know, anti orcus, 268 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 3: pro Palestine, and yes, apparently there was a pro Russian 269 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 3: flag there as well, not to mention the usual you. 270 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: Know, climate change is bad for us, which. 271 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 3: It is, but I'm not sure what throwing horseshited a 272 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 3: police officer is going to do about that. And it 273 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 3: reminded me strangely of something else that happened that was 274 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 3: very very similar on this very very day, in that 275 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 3: very very place, about twenty four years ago. As we 276 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 3: record this, the date is September eleven, and a few 277 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 3: of you might think that is a date that is 278 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 3: seared into the globe's consciousness, that is a date where 279 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: we all remember where we were, we all remember what happened, 280 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 3: don't need to repeat it now. But before that happened, 281 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 3: something else happened. There was, in fact, a group of socialists, anarchists, protesters, 282 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it. They still talk about 283 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 3: it in their little red websites to this day, called 284 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: the S eleven Alliance, the S eleven group, so named 285 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 3: because on September eleven, in the streets of Melbourne, September eleven, 286 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: two thousand, the same sorts of people descended on the 287 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: same sorts of place to protest against the World Economic Forum. 288 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 3: This time it wasn't climate change or orcus or arms 289 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 3: or Palestine or Israel. But it's the same kind of people. 290 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 3: We all know what they were doing. They're doing the 291 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: same kind of stuff, getting in lights with police because 292 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 3: previously they'd done the exact same thing. The year before, 293 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety nine, at the World Economic Forum in Seattle. 294 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: In fact, they called it the Battle of Seattle, which 295 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: reminded me a little bit of the big Lebowski you 296 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: hear of the Seattle seven. That was me other guys. 297 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 3: So there you go, the anarchist, socialist and archo Syncholis 298 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: collective of taking their leads from the dude. And then 299 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 3: exactly one year later, something else happened on September eleven, 300 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 3: and that's just terrible for revolutionary brand management. So all 301 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 3: these guys kind of disappeared. One of the main leaders, 302 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: I think, is now a counselor on the Yarra City 303 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: Council to this very day. 304 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing? 305 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: Maybe he was there hanging out with the other protesters 306 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 3: against the landcom people. But there you go, just another day, 307 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 3: another dec another year, another cause, and the same old 308 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 3: friendly faces. And now just to go quickly to another 309 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,479 Speaker 3: couple of really important issues that were all set to 310 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 3: dominate the debate and the news all this week until, 311 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 3: of course Donald Trump and the revolution came along, and 312 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 3: not even in the same form, and that is this 313 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 3: Royal Commission into Defense and Veteran Suicide which handed down 314 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 3: its report on Monday, and that is an incredibly important milestone, 315 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 3: and that is something that vets and serving members of 316 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 3: the ADF have been waiting for a very very long 317 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 3: time to give you an indication of just how serious 318 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 3: this is. I crunched the numbers last night because I 319 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 3: read in the past, and you know this issue has 320 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 3: come up from time to time. Read in the past 321 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 3: that the number of suicides among Defense Force members is 322 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 3: actually multiple times the number of deaths that they suffer 323 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 3: in combat zones, in actual conflicts, in actual war. 324 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: In other words, how bad this problem is is that 325 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: you are. 326 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 3: More likely, if you are a soldier or we are 327 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 3: serving in our armed forces, you're more likely to die 328 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 3: by your own hand than by the hand of the enemy. 329 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 3: And that is something obviously that really needs an incredible 330 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 3: amount of examination to understand, an incredible amount of care 331 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 3: and services to stop from happening. 332 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: So I went back last night and just tried. 333 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 3: To catalog what the actual numbers were, because this figure 334 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: I'd seen was a few years ago. Now, in the 335 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 3: Royal Commission's report, it finds that since nineteen eighty five, 336 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 3: there have been more than two thousand two thousand deaths 337 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: by current or former ADF servicemen and. 338 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: Women by suicide. 339 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: That is a just horrendous figure and just an unthinkably 340 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 3: large figure. And strangely, I noticed in their butt they 341 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 3: averaged out. They averaged out to seventy eight every year 342 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 3: since nine eighty five. And I went to the Australian 343 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 3: War Memorial and I counted up every single Australian death 344 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 3: in a conflict zone since nine and eighty five. And 345 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 3: when I added it all up, I had to double 346 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 3: check and do it again because I couldn't believe it. 347 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 3: The exact same number, the exact same number of fallen 348 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 3: servicemen and women in every single conflict zone that Australian 349 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 3: has been over the past forty years, over that entire 350 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 3: forty years, is the exact equivalent to the number of 351 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 3: vets and servicemen and women who take their our own 352 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 3: lives every single year on average. That is something that 353 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 3: we as a nation need to really process and deal with. 354 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 3: Another blight on our nation, and another almost in a 355 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 3: completely different way, but in many ways can also be 356 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 3: just as deadly as the scourge of social media. And 357 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 3: we had the PM too, his great credit, announced that 358 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 3: along with pretty much every state premier and territory chief minister. 359 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: I believe pretty much everyone is on board. 360 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 3: They are going to put age restrictions on social media 361 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: so that kids can't get unfettered access to stuff that 362 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 3: could be incredibly damaging to them. We know that can 363 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 3: lead to bullying, or to false, unrealistic expectations of what 364 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 3: you should look like, or who you should be, or 365 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: how good you are. We know that can lead to addiction, distraction, 366 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 3: all sorts of things. Now, that is long overdue, That 367 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 3: is fantastic, and that has been met with what the 368 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: Sydney Warning Herald called parents rejoicing. When have you ever 369 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 3: had a government policy and then seeing the media report 370 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 3: that people were rejoicing as a result of this government policy. 371 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 3: I mean, this is a big win. This is a 372 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 3: pretty heavy endorsement, right. But both the Defense Suicide Royal 373 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 3: Commission and the New Age restrictions on social media have 374 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 3: something more in common than the fact they're both really 375 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 3: really important and potentially a matter of life and death. 376 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 3: And that is that both of these things were only achieved, 377 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 3: were only done because of a tireless and constant campaign 378 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: by News Corp in particular, Other sections of the media shore. 379 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: But this was led entirely by largely the Daily Telegraph 380 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 3: and other sister mastheads around the country and in particular 381 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 3: in the case of the Royal Commission, the previous government. 382 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 3: And this was not against the lab this was against 383 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 3: the previous coalition government had to be drag kicking and screaming. 384 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: This was not a can of worms that they wanted 385 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: to open. 386 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 3: But the Telly just went after them again and again 387 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 3: and again and said, have this Royal Commission. 388 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: We need it, we need it, we need it now. 389 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 3: They are difficult stories to research, difficult stories to write, 390 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 3: but they kept putting them on the front page. I 391 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 3: of course worked for the Daily Telegraph. I was not 392 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 3: involved in these campaigns, but very proud to be associated 393 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 3: with the people who did it. So, yes, you know, 394 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: evil Murdoch media. We all know that whatever, whatever, whatever, 395 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 3: You also think that, well, okay, we can all disagree 396 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 3: on some things and agree on other point being these 397 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: are two things that have received unanimous support, unanimous rejoicing. 398 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 3: In the case of the social media, there's almost no 399 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 3: one who opposes this, and everyone is saying, this is 400 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 3: an absolutely vital thing that the government has done, and 401 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 3: it's something that is long overdue, something we desperately want, 402 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 3: something that no one is opposed to. And yet neither 403 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 3: of these things would have happened if either government had 404 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 3: just been left to its own devices. These things only 405 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 3: happened because of a campaign by the News Corp media. 406 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: So there you go. Maybe my good mate Rupert Murdock 407 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: isn't so evil after all. 408 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 3: Now, as you know, we like to offer you something 409 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 3: a little bit different on this podcast, something off the 410 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 3: beaten track, something you won't hear in other media. And 411 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: one of the things that I've been doing recently that 412 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 3: goes a little bit against the grain you might have 413 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 3: noticed is I'm very much pro vaping. Not for the kids. 414 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 3: The kids can be in it, but for people who 415 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 3: are trying to quit smoking and haven't had any success 416 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 3: any other way. I found myself the only way I 417 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 3: could do it was to switch from smoking to vaping. 418 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: I did it years ago, and I have never felt better. 419 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 3: I don't know what science may find in the future. 420 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 3: I might drop dead any minute. I might be a 421 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 3: ticking time bomb. But for the moment, I'm not smoking, 422 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 3: haven't touched a cigarette in years. I'm running every day, 423 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 3: and I feel fantastic, and I cannot for the life 424 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 3: and the understand by During those years, the government has 425 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 3: made it harder and harder and harder and harder for 426 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 3: me to do the thing that I know and which 427 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 3: some public health experts they are divided, but which some 428 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 3: say has saved my life. I had one professor of 429 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 3: public health, so congratulations, you just added ten years to 430 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 3: your life. And I certainly feel like that, but it 431 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 3: seems like the government doesn't feel like that, and. 432 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: They have all but criminalized vaping. 433 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 3: Despite other jurisdictions trying to make it easier for smokers 434 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 3: to access vaping, this government has tried, i think, with 435 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 3: the best of intentions, to regulate it to death. And 436 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 3: this has sparked a fair bit of panic among a 437 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 3: lot of people like me who think, well, hang on 438 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 3: a minute, this is the only way I've managed to 439 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 3: get off and stay off the city's and now they're 440 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 3: making it almost impossible for me to do it. Well, 441 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 3: I want to speak to someone who is of a 442 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 3: bit of a like mind. She's set up a group 443 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 3: called Alive. I suspect it's one of those things where 444 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 3: they've chosen the word and then chosen the other words 445 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 3: to fit it. But it's Australia, let's improve vaping education. 446 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 3: And she's got a name that makes you want to 447 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 3: interview her just on the back of that alone. 448 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: Pip a Star, Welcome to the real story. How are you. 449 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 6: I'm fantastic and thank you so much for having me. 450 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: It's an absolute pleasure. 451 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 3: First of all, it's understandable that anyone who apes, let 452 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: alone anybody in the general community, is pretty confused as 453 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 3: to what the actual legal status of vaping is in 454 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: Australia right now. It was basically a pretty unregulated industry 455 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 3: where you could get almost everything you wanted from a 456 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 3: tobacconist on a corner store to the Internet or whatever. 457 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 3: They then said, no, we're going to make it so 458 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 3: you need a prescription. That model still worked with the 459 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 3: existing providers, but you had to give them a script 460 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: for a while, and then then you're only going to 461 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: be able to get it in chemists, and then the 462 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 3: definition of what a chemist was suddenly all these online 463 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 3: chemists just started popping up almost overnight. Then the government 464 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: did a deal with the Greens that for the first 465 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 3: time in history, I think the Green's actually made something 466 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 3: more sensible I'm certainly not being sensible here. Can you 467 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 3: tell us where we're at and is vaping legal or not? 468 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 3: Or how is it legal? And how do you get it? 469 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 6: Look, you know, it's a full it's almost a full 470 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 6: time role to work out where the legalities are with 471 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 6: vaping even as a vapor, let alone the general public. 472 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 6: So how the hell would they even have a chance. 473 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 6: So look, as from October the first next month, you're 474 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 6: not going to need a prescription for a vape only 475 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 6: from a chemist up to twenty milligrams. If it's more 476 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 6: than twenty milligrams, or if you're underage, you will need 477 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 6: to go and see one of them, may be a 478 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 6: handful of doctors, because not every doctor's going to prescribe 479 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,719 Speaker 6: this somewhere in Australia if you're lucky. I mean, I'm 480 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 6: speaking to people who vape around Australia from you know, 481 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 6: from the far West Coast to Tenant Creek to Mackay 482 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 6: and right around the country every day. And there are 483 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 6: people already struggling although we have already returned to smoking, 484 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 6: because they just cannot get a prescription from a doctor 485 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 6: and they cannot get the device or the refills at 486 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 6: least for the device that they've had. We had a legal, 487 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 6: a perfectly legal vape store environment up until basically July 488 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 6: this year. Sure, the disposable vapes were banned on the 489 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 6: first of January. I think that's fair. You know, most 490 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 6: of us wanted to get rid of those, But up 491 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 6: until July this year, people are able to seek out 492 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 6: a proper vape specialists that weren't the horrible black marker 493 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 6: trying to sell you a disposed as the kids like 494 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 6: to call them, disposable in every second brand new Tobaccos 495 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 6: that opens up around the corner. 496 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 3: And that's the thing is that I think we're both 497 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 3: on a unity team when we're saying we don't want 498 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 3: the ones that appeal to kids, we don't want the 499 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 3: disposable ones. We don't I'm all in favor of banning 500 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: all the lolly flavored ones and the sweet ones that 501 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 3: obviously do you know, attract younger kids with a sweet tooth, 502 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 3: But even leaving that aside, when you're addicted to smoking, 503 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 3: you're addicted to And I think this is something that 504 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 3: perhaps only people who have struggled with addiction understand. And 505 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure whoever designed this policy has led it 506 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 3: pretty charred life in that regard. But it's not that 507 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: you can just replace it with anything. Otherwise, every smoker 508 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 3: in the world would replace their cigarettes with you know, 509 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 3: Jesus or Badminton. You know, it's like it's a compulsive, 510 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 3: repetitive action. And so when I quit about my fortieth birthday, 511 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 3: it was when I started, I just went right and 512 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 3: I just looked for a vape that looked as much 513 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 3: like a cigarette as possible. I found that one, and 514 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 3: I've been on it pretty much ever since. 515 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: Now. 516 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 3: I panic bought a sort of lifetime suppliers and restriction 517 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: started coming in and I don't you know, I don't 518 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 3: even know if I can still get the one I'm 519 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: currently on under the new regime, because a lot of 520 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 3: providers have shut down or they're not included in the 521 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 3: new thing. But this seems to me, I mean, this 522 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 3: would be a strange outcome at the best of times. 523 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 3: I mean, talk about making the perfect the enemy of 524 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 3: the good. You've got something that's helped hundreds of thousands 525 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 3: of people quit smoking. There are more than a million 526 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 3: people vaping in Australia. You see them on every street 527 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 3: corner all the time. You barely see anyone smoking cigarettes anymore, and. 528 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: Yet it's the cigarettes that kill two thirds of their 529 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: users that are available at every single shop, whereas the 530 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 2: vapes you've got to jump through all these hoops. 531 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: It just seems, man, absolutely, that's what I don't get exactly. 532 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 6: But here's the thing. Sure, Look, I think it's almost 533 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 6: the fact that prohibition time now to say, you know, 534 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 6: I'll packet of twenty five cigarettes, what are they sixty 535 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 6: dollars or something? Since the most recent price rise the 536 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 6: other day on average across the board, it's ludicrous. They 537 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 6: are prohibitive measures. So when's the have gone behind past 538 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 6: the point of diminishing returns. It's now become prohibitive. So 539 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 6: what are the alternatives? Well, it would be good, great 540 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 6: opportunity to get people healthier, wouldn't it For those who 541 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 6: can't quit by cold turkey or other forms of chemotherapy, 542 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 6: the champis champis patches, gums, lozenges, berry flavored spraysing goodbye 543 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 6: from the chemist. You know, look, I think it's a 544 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 6: great opportunity to introduced vaping. But instead we've got bands 545 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 6: and we've got to that point now the keyword called 546 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 6: prohibition it's encouraging a black market clearly that are absolutely 547 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 6: fighting over each other. 548 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: That's right. 549 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 3: And I've heard you know, anecdotal effortens and again I 550 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: don't go to buy them from the corner shops or whatever, 551 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: but yeah, anecdo levators. It's made almost no difference. People 552 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 3: are still selling it openly. There's just no regulation. And 553 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 3: you've you've uncovered cases where where chemists, like where vaping 554 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 3: stores and chemists are saying selling the exact same product, 555 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 3: but the chemist is selling it for almost twice as much. 556 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 6: Absolutely, you know. So what's happening here is we've got 557 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 6: small businesses owned by moms and dads who have quit smoking, 558 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 6: have invested against you know, the equity and their own homes, 559 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 6: been forced to close their stores to comply with Barth 560 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 6: Butler's laws in July, who have literally gone to the wall. 561 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 6: You know, this is really really sad. We're talking not 562 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 6: just a handful of businesses here, We're talking about five 563 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 6: hundred plus across Australia. We're talking in thousands of thousands 564 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 6: of people in the cost of living crisis been put 565 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 6: to the wall, just thrown out without a job from July. 566 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: So having an economic effect as well. 567 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 3: Oh look absolutely, And can I ask people just for clarity, 568 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 3: which is something that people always ask, but do you 569 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 3: or your organization have any associations with or receive any 570 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 3: funding from tobacco companies at all? 571 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 6: Look, let's be absolutely clear. We're not a front group 572 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 6: for anyone. We're not. We do not take money from 573 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 6: any any industry, be that big tobacco or vaping or wherever. 574 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 6: We are the vapors of Australia. We are the grassroots 575 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 6: people who vape, who have had enough. We are sick 576 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 6: of the propaganda and we need to be heard. We've 577 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 6: come together as a collective because in the last inquiry, 578 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 6: the last Federal vapor inquiry of the Tobacco Bill and 579 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 6: Vaping Other Products Bill, now, there was two hundred and 580 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 6: eighty one submissions, two hundred eighty one submissions that were 581 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 6: actually logged file if you like, with the Federal government. 582 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 6: Of those two hundred and eighty one, only forty five 583 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 6: were in support of the bill. Only forty five of 584 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 6: those were in the support of the bill. So we're 585 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 6: not being heard. We're not being heard loud enough. I 586 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 6: know for a fact that there were literally thousands of 587 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 6: other submissions that won't lock in the federal system, federal 588 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 6: government system. And you know this is why I had 589 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 6: to I have to get a group of my mad 590 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 6: mates and a few more of their mad mates and 591 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 6: a few more of their mad mates together because the 592 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 6: consumers just aren't being heard in Australia. You know, we're 593 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 6: the key stakeholders in this whole thing, for God's. 594 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 3: Sakes, Well you're you're the ones that weare, the ones 595 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 3: I suppose I should say, who have our lives on 596 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 3: the line, So perhaps. 597 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: We should be the ones who will listened to pivot start. 598 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on the Real Story. 599 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 6: I want to thank you for having me and been 600 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 6: an episode on it to find me. 601 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, you're nice. I hope they leave that in thanks. 602 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 3: And that is all we have time for today. Thank 603 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 3: you so much for listening to the Real Story. If 604 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,959 Speaker 3: you love what you're here, leave a rating and a review. 605 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 3: If you don't love what you're here, just pretend you 606 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 3: love what you hear and then leave a rating and 607 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 3: a review as if you loved it. If you want 608 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 3: us to cover anything on the podcast, you can reach 609 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 3: out via our socials, by which I mean my personal 610 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 3: Instagram account that is at Joe Underscore Hildebrand, so you 611 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 3: can email us the real story at Nova Podcasts dot 612 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: com dot au and of course you can always read 613 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 3: my columns on Monday and Saturday in the Daily Telegraph 614 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 3: and various mass heads around the country. 615 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure. Love your guts and I'll 616 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: see you next week.