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Speaker 1: Mss Patterson. Can you repeat your full name please?

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Speaker 2: Erin Trudy Patterson.

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Speaker 1: And how old are you?

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Speaker 2: Fifty?

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Speaker 1: Now, I want to start by asking you some questions

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Speaker 1: about what your life was like in July of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm outside the La Troe Valley Courthouse and we've

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Speaker 3: just finished one of the biggest days in the murder

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Speaker 3: trial of Aaron Patterson. It was the day that the

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Speaker 3: accused herself took to the stand. We only found out

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Speaker 3: it was going to happen late in the day, and

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Speaker 3: her testimony lasted about an hour. But we're going to

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Speaker 3: spend this episode unpacking it all. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig,

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Speaker 3: and this is the Mushroom Cook. It's the start of

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Speaker 3: week six and I'm joined as always by my colleague

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Speaker 3: court reporter Laura Plasella. We're here in our makeshift podcast studio.

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Speaker 2: In Morewell, what a day we've had.

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Speaker 3: It was huge. I was in the overthrowing room today,

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Speaker 3: but Laura, you were fortunate enough to snag a seat

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Speaker 3: in courtroom.

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Speaker 2: For that's right.

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Speaker 4: Like most days of the trial, the courtroom was packed.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't allocated a reserved media seat today but I

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Speaker 4: managed to grab a seat on a bench in the

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Speaker 4: courtroom near the jury box, and they are about seven

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Speaker 4: of us on this bench, so it's safe to say

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Speaker 4: it was a tight squeeze. The prosecution closed its case

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Speaker 4: today and as soon as that took place, just as

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Speaker 4: Christopher Beale turned to Erin's defense barrister Colin Mandy, and

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Speaker 4: he asked, what course will the accused be taking? There

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Speaker 4: was a pause and then mister Mandy replied, your honor,

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Speaker 4: the defense will call Aaron Patterson.

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Speaker 3: And what was it like in the courtroom at that time?

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Speaker 4: It was a very hushed moment. And then right after

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Speaker 4: that the jury were ushered out of the courtroom to

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Speaker 4: allow miss Patterson to get from the dock where she's

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Speaker 4: been seated for twenty four days to the witness box

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Speaker 4: where she would give evidence today.

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Speaker 3: And can you describe to our listeners what she looked

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Speaker 3: like and what she was wearing.

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Speaker 4: So she was in a black Paisley shirt, Paisley being

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Speaker 4: a pattern, and it had a few spots of color

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Speaker 4: on it. She had her hair out draped over her shoulders,

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Speaker 4: and we have seen her at times use glasses, but

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Speaker 4: today she chose not to wear them. It was at

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Speaker 4: this point that the tip staff who manages the courtroom,

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Speaker 4: walked over to Miss Patterson and walked her through her affirmation.

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Speaker 4: She gave an affirmation to tell the whole truth and

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Speaker 4: nothing but the truth. And after that the questioning got underway.

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Speaker 3: So mister Mandy asked Erin a range of questions about

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Speaker 3: her life. So we'll walk our listeners through each point.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with her low self esteem.

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Speaker 4: Erin revealed to the court that she was planning to

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Speaker 4: have weight loss surgery in a gastric bypass. Here's more

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Speaker 4: of what she was asked. We've used actors to voice

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Speaker 4: their words.

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Speaker 1: How in July of twenty twenty three, how did you

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Speaker 1: feel about yourself physically?

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Speaker 2: Not good?

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Speaker 1: Why?

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Speaker 2: I'd been fighting a never ending battle of low self

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Speaker 2: esteem most my adult life, and the further inroads I

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Speaker 2: made into being middle aged, the less less I felt

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Speaker 2: good about myself. I suppose put on more weight, could

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Speaker 2: handle exercise less.

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Speaker 1: Was it principally the weight issue?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that was the large that was the

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Speaker 2: bulk of it.

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Speaker 1: Yep. And did you have plans to do anything about

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Speaker 1: to address the weight issue?

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Speaker 2: I did?

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Speaker 1: And what were those plans?

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Speaker 2: I was planning to have weight loss surgery, you know,

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Speaker 2: is it gas strich bypass. I was planning to do that.

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Speaker 3: Mister Mandy asked Aaron about the birth of her and

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Speaker 3: Simon's son. She said his birth was very traumatic.

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Speaker 4: He went on to ask her why, for what reason?

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Speaker 2: It went for a very long time, and they tried

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Speaker 2: to get him out with forceps and he wouldn't come out,

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Speaker 2: and he started to go into distress and they lost

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Speaker 2: his heartbeat, so they did an emergency cesarean and got

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Speaker 2: him out quickly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, as a result of that cesarean, you had

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Speaker 1: to stay in hospital for a few days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was sixteen years ago, so I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: exactly how long, but it was probably roughly a week

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Speaker 2: that I was in My son was in the neonatal

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Speaker 2: I see you for a while to start with.

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Speaker 1: And how was it that you ended up leaving hospital?

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Speaker 2: So my son had got to a point where they

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Speaker 2: were happy to discharge him. He was off oxygen, he

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Speaker 2: was off the feeding tube, and they said he could

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Speaker 2: be discharged to go home with Simon, but they wanted

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Speaker 2: me to stay because of they didn't think I had

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Speaker 2: healed quite well enough from the surgery, and they wanted

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Speaker 2: me to stay and I wanted to go with my son.

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Speaker 2: So I remember having a conversation with Simon about it,

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Speaker 2: and I was really upset and I said, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to stay here by myself. I want to go

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Speaker 2: home with my son. And Simon said to me, you

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Speaker 2: can just do it, let's just leave.

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Speaker 1: Did that involve you discharging yourself against medical advice?

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Speaker 2: Yep, it did.

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Speaker 3: Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her Lean Gat, the home

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Speaker 3: that she moved into with her children in June twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two, and what.

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Speaker 1: Role did you have in designing that house.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was involved right from the beginning of the design.

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Speaker 2: I suppose Simon and I were involved through the whole

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Speaker 2: design process. But I drew a design myself first in

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Speaker 2: like Microsoft paint, and gave that to the building designer

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Speaker 2: and he said that will never work engineering wise. Let's

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Speaker 2: move it around a bit, you know. But it modeled

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Speaker 2: quite closely on how I wanted things sorted out.

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Speaker 1: And what were your plans for that house?

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Speaker 2: I saw it as the final house, meaning I wanted

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Speaker 2: it to be a house where the children would grow up,

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Speaker 2: where once they moved away for Uni or work. They

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Speaker 2: could come back and stay whenever they liked, bring their children,

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Speaker 2: and I'd grow old there. That's what I hoped.

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Speaker 1: In the year that you had been there, did you

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Speaker 1: like living in the house?

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Speaker 2: I really liked living in the house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her financial situation in July

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. She said she was comfortable financially.

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Speaker 1: He's more of she said, And in July of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, what were your financial circumstances.

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Speaker 2: I was comfortable financially such that I could afford to

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Speaker 2: go to university and I didn't need to work a

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Speaker 2: full time job. At the same time, Aaron was also

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Speaker 2: asked about when she met her husband, Simon. She went

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Speaker 2: on to explain they both worked at a local council together.

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Speaker 2: This was her exchange with mister Mandy.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell the jury how you met Simon.

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Speaker 2: We met because we worked at the same place. We

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Speaker 2: both worked at the City of Monash Council offices in

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Speaker 2: glen Waverley.

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Speaker 1: And what was your role there?

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Speaker 2: So I was employed by the RSPCA and but as

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Speaker 2: part of that role, I was located at the City

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Speaker 2: of Monash offices as an administration assistant. So the RSPCA

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Speaker 2: had the contract to deliver animal management services to Monash

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Speaker 2: and as part of that they would supply two rangers

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Speaker 2: and an admin officer and I was the admin officer.

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Speaker 1: And what was Simon's role at Monash City Council.

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Speaker 2: He was a traffic engineer, I believe at the time.

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Speaker 1: And how did your relationship commence?

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Speaker 2: We had mutual friends, is how I remember it coming together.

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Speaker 2: He was friends with people that I had become friends with,

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Speaker 2: So we would come up against each other at lunch

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Speaker 2: or after work drinks, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: And what sort of activities did that group of friends

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Speaker 1: do together?

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Speaker 2: Initially in two thousand and three, it was just really

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Speaker 2: lunch at work or after work drinks.

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Speaker 4: Aaron went on to say that her and Simon started

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Speaker 4: dating in July two thousand and five. They were engaged

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Speaker 4: in February two thousand and seven, and then married in

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Speaker 4: June that same year. Aaron said Simon's cousin Dave Wilkinson

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Speaker 4: walked her down the aisle. Mister Mandy asked erin where

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Speaker 4: her parents were. She replied they were in Russia on

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Speaker 4: a train, adding that they were having.

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Speaker 3: A holiday Aaron then said her and Simon traveled around

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Speaker 3: Australia before going to South Africa.

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Speaker 2: So immediately after our wedding we had a long weekend

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Speaker 2: in a Linda. That was the honeymoon. But what we

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Speaker 2: really wanted for our honeymoon was to drive around Australia.

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Speaker 2: So Simon gave notice of his job. We gave away

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Speaker 2: everything we had, sold Simon's car to Ian and Heather

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Speaker 2: bought ans and patrol and we just hit the open road.

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Speaker 1: And where did you go?

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Speaker 2: We first went to Sydney. Simon had some friends there

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Speaker 2: that he wanted us to stay with, so we did

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Speaker 2: that and then we just slowly meandered our way across Australia,

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Speaker 2: but through the you know, like the far West, Birdsville, Udna,

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Speaker 2: Dada Track, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, the guts of it really And where did you

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Speaker 1: end up?

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Speaker 2: We ended up in Perth around September of seven.

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Speaker 1: And did you settle in perse So we.

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Speaker 2: Did eventually, Yeah, But we first went over to Africa

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Speaker 2: for a couple of months.

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Speaker 1: And where did you go in Africa?

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Speaker 2: We landed in South Africa. We went to Botswana to

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Speaker 2: visit some of Simon's relatives. We went to Zimbabwe, to

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Speaker 2: visit a friend of his. We went camping through Namibia.

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Speaker 1: And did you get back to Perth at the end

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and seven something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, about then what did.

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Speaker 1: You do when you got back to Perth.

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Speaker 2: When we got back to Perth, Simon was pretty keen

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Speaker 2: to keep traveling, and I was pretty keen to stop

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Speaker 2: for a while and put down roots. I was keen

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Speaker 2: to start having babies, I guess, for want of a

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Speaker 2: better way to phrase it, so we did.

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Speaker 3: Mister Mandy also asked Aaron about her relationship with Simon

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Speaker 3: in July twenty twenty three. The jury previously heard the

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Speaker 3: pair separated in twenty fifteen. This is what she said.

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Speaker 2: It was functional from the start of the year to July.

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Speaker 2: We mainly just related on logistic things like church, the streaming,

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Speaker 2: the kids, but we didn't relate on friend things banter

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Speaker 2: like we used to. That changed at the start of

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Speaker 2: the year.

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Speaker 4: Aaron was also asked about parts of her life that

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Speaker 4: weren't so good around that time.

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Speaker 2: I had felt for some months that my relationship with

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Speaker 2: the wider Patterson family, and particularly Don and Gale, had

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Speaker 2: perhaps had a bit more distance or space put between us.

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Speaker 2: We saw each other less. I mean, partly it's a

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Speaker 2: consequence of I no longer lived in the same town

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Speaker 2: as Donnungale, but i'd I'd come to have concerns that

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Speaker 2: Simon was not wanting to be involved too much with

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Speaker 2: the family anymore. Perhaps I wasn't being invited to so

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Speaker 2: many things.

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Speaker 3: Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her religion when she met Simon.

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Speaker 1: When you met Simon, what were your views about religion?

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Speaker 2: I was what you would probably call a fundamentalist atheist,

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Speaker 2: like I was really very atheist.

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Speaker 1: And what was Simon's views?

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Speaker 2: Oh? He was a Christian? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And did your attitude towards religion change? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: It did?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And what was that?

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Speaker 2: So through the course of those two to three months

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Speaker 2: December four January February oh five, we had a lot

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Speaker 2: of conversations about life, religion, politics, and a lot about religion.

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Speaker 2: And I was trying to convert him to being an atheist.

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Speaker 2: But things happened in reverse, and I became a Christian.

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Speaker 1: You said that you first met Don and Gail when

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Speaker 1: you went on a trip to Karumborough. Yep. Did you

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Speaker 1: go to church on that trip to Karumborough? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: It was the first church service I'd ever been to.

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Speaker 1: And do you remember when that was?

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Speaker 2: I think the closest I can say is March or April,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think it was Easter, so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fine, March or April. Do you remember the

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Speaker 1: experience of going to church on that occasion, Yeah, I do.

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Speaker 2: I remember being really excited about it because I'd never

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Speaker 2: been to a church service before. I'd been to my

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Speaker 2: sister's wedding in a church, but that was it, and

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Speaker 2: I was I was really looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: What church was it?

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Speaker 2: It was Cornborough Baptist Church.

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Speaker 1: And what do you remember about that church service?

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Speaker 2: I remember that there was a banner up on the

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Speaker 2: wall behind where Ian was preaching.

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Speaker 1: When you say Ian, do you mean Ian Wilkinson.

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Speaker 2: That's right. He was the pastor and he was giving

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Speaker 2: a sermon that day, and there was a banner. It

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Speaker 2: could still be there now, but it said it has

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Speaker 2: on it faith, hope, and love. And Ian gave a

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Speaker 2: sermon talking about that. There's a passage in the Bible

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Speaker 2: that talks about faith, hope, and love, and the greatest

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Speaker 2: of these is love. And I remember Ian giving a

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Speaker 2: sermon on that, and then we had communion which I

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Speaker 2: was welcome to participate in.

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Speaker 1: And what impact did the church service have on you?

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Speaker 2: I had what at best can be described as like

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Speaker 2: a spiritual experience. I'd been I'd been approaching religion as

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Speaker 2: an intellectual exercise up until that point. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: Is it rational? But I had what I would call

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Speaker 2: a religious experience there and it quite overwhelmed me.

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Speaker 3: Let's move on to the last topic that Aaron was

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Speaker 3: asked about today, the separation between her and Simon.

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Speaker 4: Aaron told the court that ultimately Hear and Simon couldn't

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Speaker 4: communicate well when they disagreed about something. Here's more of

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Speaker 4: what she said on that matter.

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Speaker 1: During those periods of separation, how did you and Simon

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Speaker 1: manage the children?

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Speaker 2: So obviously the pre twenty fourteen separation, it was just

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Speaker 2: our son. I would say that, even though obviously our

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Speaker 2: relationship was struggling because of a separation, it was really

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Speaker 2: important to both of us to cooperate about our son

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Speaker 2: and make it as easy on him as possible, as

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Speaker 2: easy as a separation if his parents can be. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was our priority.

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Speaker 1: And was there any conflict between you as to how

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Speaker 1: to look after your son?

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Speaker 2: No? There wasn't. There wasn't.

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Speaker 1: There must have been some tension to cause the separations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yep, there was.

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Speaker 1: What was that about?

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Speaker 2: Primarily what we struggled with over the entire course of

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Speaker 2: our relationship. If we had any problems at all, it

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Speaker 2: was we just couldn't communicate well when we disagreed about something,

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Speaker 2: We could never communicate in a way that made each

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Speaker 2: of us feel heard or understood, so we would just

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Speaker 2: feel hurt and not know how to resolve it.

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Speaker 1: But that kind of tension didn't extend to how you

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Speaker 1: look after your son.

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Speaker 2: No, it didn't, because we just both loved him.

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Speaker 3: So Aaron gave evidence for only forty one minutes today

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Speaker 3: after the morning was spent finishing Detective Leading Senior Constable

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Speaker 3: Stephen Eppingstool's cross examination.

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Speaker 4: And Erin will return to the witness box tomorrow for

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Speaker 4: further questions from mister Mandy. At some stage, we don't

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Speaker 4: know when the prosecution will get their turn to cross

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Speaker 4: examine the accused triple murderer.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Laura. To stay updated on this case, go to

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Speaker 3: the mushroomcook dot com dot au