1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: It's Thursday, November twenty one. Treasure Jim Chalmers is unlocking 3 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: Australia's biggest financial asset, the giant two hundred and twenty 4 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: five billion dollar Future Fund, to drive investment in housing 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: and green energy projects and improved infrastructure. One of the 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: Biden administration's most powerful diplomats, Deputy Secretary of stat Kurt Campbell, 7 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: is warning incoming President Donald Trump not to turn his 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: back on Australia in the face of a relentless China. 9 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: Those two big stories and what they mean for all 10 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: of us are explained in detail right now at The 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: Australian dot com. What are the kids in your life 12 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: having for lunch today? I bet it's not a devon 13 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: and tomato sauce sandwich on white bread. How times have 14 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: changed and today we've got to treat our treasured senior 15 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: writer Matt Condon on the ghosts of lunch boxes past. 16 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: Let's make some lunch for my kids. It's so cute 17 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: out there on social media. Women are joyfully making their 18 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: children's school lunches. I'm tapping it off with their clear 19 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: egg and fleaky salts. This food is nourishing, organic, inventive. 20 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: A tortilla, add some hummus, lettuce and some turky. Matt 21 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: Condon is a senior writer with The Australian and today 22 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: he started a new column. His first is a treatise 23 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: on how generations of parents raised on white bread and 24 00:01:54,840 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: plastic cheese have found themselves preparing bento boxes for their children. 25 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: My mother would just sort of chain saw a bit 26 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: of devon and chuck it between two bits of bread, 27 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: and then it did go into the lunch box and 28 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: then five hours later, in thirty five degree Brisbane heat, 29 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: it had come out again as a completely different product. 30 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: This is before microwaves. I mean it was just Brisbane 31 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: humidity was enough to completely transform the horror that it 32 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: initially was into some new, absolute new culinary monster. And 33 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: yet now kids are getting sushi like what was sushi 34 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: in the seventies. Sushi was I don't know. It was 35 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 2: like a martial art type of martial arts was it? 36 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: Who nobody knew what sushi was. The biggest event in 37 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: Brisbane in the early seventies was a pizza hut opening. 38 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it's incredible how in a single generation. The 39 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: culinary arts have evolved extraordinarily. 40 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: Have your children ever tasted devon? 41 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: It's dog food now, I mean, but having said that, 42 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: even the dogs eat better quality, more quality Devon than 43 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 2: we had as kids. So no, to answer your question, no, 44 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 2: they've never eaten devon. I mean that the concept now 45 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: of a roll, a kilogram of processed sausage that comes 46 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: in a dog food style roll pinched at either red 47 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 2: is literally beyond their comprehension. 48 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: I've got very powerful Devon memories, Matt. You see kids 49 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: being pushed around in the supermarket now, sitting in the 50 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: trolley with an iPad. But when I was a kid 51 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: in canber in the eighties, I was sitting in the 52 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: trolley with a packet of devon. My mum would the 53 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: first storf in a supermarket would be the deli counter. 54 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: She would get six slices of Devon and they'd wrap 55 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: it up in paper, and then she'd give it to 56 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: me in the trolley and I would eat it while 57 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: we went around the rest of the supermarket. It was 58 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: sort of quite cheap entertainment. 59 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: Oh why do I understand that so well? You know, 60 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: with lunches today there are sort of this myriad of 61 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand types of snacks. So there's all sorts 62 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: of musally sugar free musli bars and different sort of 63 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: types of seaweed. That's sheets of seaweed that's graded in 64 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: different thicknesses and got different condiments and flavors of different 65 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: types of seaweed sheets. 66 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: Here's some of Matt's essay, which you can read in 67 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: full at the Australian dot com Are you right now? 68 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: Oh? Dinner time? In the nineteen seventies, I tell my 69 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: children over dinner, closing my eyes with the pleasure and 70 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: simultaneous pain of remembrance. What was it like? Dad? Tell us, 71 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: tell us, what did you eat well? I said, we 72 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 2: didn't have organic stuff way back then. Anything organic just 73 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: meant it had either been grown in the earth or 74 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: was rotting back into the earth. What did I eat well? 75 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: Tripe for starters, stripes tripe the stomach lining of a 76 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: cow or a sheep or a pig, cleaned, trimmed, cooked 77 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: and served with white sauce and onions. My daughter placed 78 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: her hand across her mouth. It was awful. Nobody laughed. 79 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: Stomach lining, I stressed. Then there was lambs fry and bacon. 80 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 2: The lamb's liver, that was the fry bit wrapped in 81 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: bacon to make it even remotely edible. My youngest almost 82 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: dry wretched. But I was on a roll, a roll 83 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: of horror rissoles, endless rissoles, and curried sausages or normal 84 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: sausages with some sort of tined curried powder sprinkled on top. 85 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: My eldest, a vegetarian, quietly belched. A lot of things 86 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 2: seemed to come out of tins. My youngest son said, quizzically, yes, 87 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 2: they did, I said, because we never knew when there 88 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 2: was going to be a nuclear war, so at least 89 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: when the bombs hit, we'd have plenty of tins of 90 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: pineapple and apricots and we'd survive. The children were silent. 91 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: I know. 92 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: My youngest wanted to ask how the tins managed to 93 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: survive a nuclear holocaust, but he refrained. I've wanted to add, Look, 94 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: I'm not blaming my parents or a generation of adults 95 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: that were entrusted with our luncheons. They worked with what 96 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 2: they had. My father, for example, born in the late thirties, 97 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 2: so his childhood was a sort of directly influenced by 98 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: the depression, so of course off all et cetera was 99 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: just part of the course. And of course in the 100 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: seventies came the great movement of quote buying in bulk, 101 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: so if you bought in bulk then you could save money. 102 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: Everything came in this sort of giant, almost forty four 103 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: gallon style drum tins of full of processed fruit. And 104 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: Dad would and it's a funny, old fashioned word that 105 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: you'd only use with wine nowadays, Mum would tell you 106 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: your dad's decanting the veggiemite, because you'd buy it in 107 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: a drum and then you'd decant it to a smaller 108 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: jar so that it was more manageable, and you might 109 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: get twenty jars out of the drum that was sealed 110 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: up for the next decantation. So it's just a completely 111 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: different planet. 112 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: After the break. How post war frugality and industrialized food 113 00:07:51,800 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: production shaped childhood diets. Australia was lucky to avoid the 114 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: strict rationing of post war Britain and we didn't have 115 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: the unfettered corporatization of food that has cursed the United 116 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: States and led to a situation where Donald Trump's nominee 117 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: for Health Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Junior mixes conspiracy theories 118 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: about vaccines and fluoride with ideas on food that for 119 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: Americans might sound radical, but for Australians seem quite reasonable, 120 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: like that kids' breakfast cereals shouldn't contain artificial colors and 121 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: that most of our food should be unprocessed. In Matt's 122 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: seventies Brisbane childhood, there were some early adopters who believed 123 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: food should be fresh and wholesome. 124 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 2: Indeed, I had a great friend of mine at the 125 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: school whose mum I look back on her now and 126 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: think how progressive she was. That they literally had their 127 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: own They actually had a goat in the backyard of 128 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: their suburban house in Brisbane, so they would drink goat 129 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: fresh goat milk. She would grow her own veggies. Having 130 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: said that, he did go to hospital briefly with malnutrition, 131 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: but apart from. 132 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: That, that's a small price to it. 133 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: It is, but there were pockets, but that was considered 134 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: sort of highly unusual, if not something to be suspect about. 135 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like so many things about modern parenting, we 136 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: try to smack our kids a bit less than our 137 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: parents smacked us. We may try to lay our own 138 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: emotional baggage on them a bit more lightly than our 139 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: parents laid their emotional baggage on us. How do you 140 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: interpret the way we are feeding our children as a 141 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: kind of indication of the kind of parenting people in 142 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four in Australia are trying to live by. 143 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: Well, If I shout at the dog, my children are 144 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: slitely all over me, about to report me to the RSPCA. 145 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 2: But you cannot be aggressive, cruel, et cetera to this animal. 146 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 2: But sensitivities, it does go to a point where sensitivities 147 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 2: are completely different than you know. Maybe my kids will 148 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: be reflecting as I'm reflecting today on the norms of 149 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,599 Speaker 2: when they were children and how things have changed dramatically 150 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 2: for their own children. Maybe we all just try and 151 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: put our shoulder to the wheel and do the best 152 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: we can in the moment that we live. I do 153 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 2: reach some points with my kids where I just think, 154 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: for a flash of a moment, oh, for God's sake, 155 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: let them have it and let them be kids for 156 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 2: ten minutes. Are we limiting them and strangulating their childhood 157 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 2: too much? I will literally sneakily buy the kids ice 158 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: creams and say just go for it, but don't tell mom. 159 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm off to buy a roll of 160 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: Devon and some of the fool sugar tomato sauce. That's 161 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: another big treat these days. You're supposed to give the 162 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: kids the stuff that doesn't have any sugar and isn't 163 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: as nice. 164 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: Good luck in finding the Devon, I mean, I would 165 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: go to the pet section because some of it does 166 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: look to my ancient mind, does look quite appetizing compared 167 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: to what we had as kids. 168 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: Matt Condon is a senior writer with The Australian. You 169 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: can read Matt's full essay right now at Beaustralian dot 170 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: com dot au slash health, along with a suite of 171 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: other inspiring and informative yarns about the science, ethics, and 172 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: taste of good health today. Ah, thank you, that's very funny.