1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,160 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. 2 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 2: Welcome to another installment of the Bloody You Project. Tiffany 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 2: and Cooker's over there. I'll briefly say a loo to 4 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 2: her because she's got self esteem issues and she's an 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: only child. 6 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 3: Hi, thank you, Harps. I'm just keeping a float with 7 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 3: the self esteem thanks to. 8 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: That, emotional issues being kept in check. You all right, 9 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: just just thank you. Therapy still with doctor Bill or. 10 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 3: Have cooked tomorrow? Actually, oh god. 11 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Doctor Bill. Osie's beach ause to you. Yeah, I know, Zohey, 12 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 2: have you ever thought about therapy? Maybe that's we can't 13 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 2: talk about that overtly, but you probably need therapy on 14 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 2: a constant base basis with your life. 15 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 4: You know, when I was a phone correspondent, the ABC 16 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 4: used to offer counseling after traumatic assignments, but I gave 17 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 4: up having it because often when I would speak to 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 4: the counselor, they would spend the whole session going, oh 19 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 4: my god, that's so. 20 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: Terrible, Oh my god, Oh I don't know how you 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 3: dealt with that. Oh that's shocking. 22 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 4: And me, in the end, I felt like I was 23 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 4: counseling them, so it wasn't overly productive. 24 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure that it's great when the therapist 25 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: is coming out more traumatized than the patient. 26 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: But well done, that's a good effort by you. 27 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks, And not to denigrate the efforts of the counselors, 28 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 4: who I'm sure were giving it their best effort, but 29 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 4: some of the stories were a little bit extreme. 30 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: Did that in all seriousness without being specific? Like, is 31 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 2: that stuff you still live with? 32 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: Do you had? 33 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 2: I mean, there's no when you talk about stress and 34 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: trauma and going through things like that, there's no three 35 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: step plan. How did you navigate and manage that? 36 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 3: I think it's still with me for sure. 37 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 4: I Mean when I was a journalist, I covered lots 38 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: of immense trauma in climate disaster situations, particularly with a 39 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 4: big hurrican or typhoon, bushfires, you know, covered mass shootings, 40 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 4: of plane crashes, terrorist attacks. 41 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 3: So this stuff's really and it stays with you. 42 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 4: And look, I think in many ways it's made me 43 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 4: a more empathetic person actually, And you know, everything that 44 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 4: happens in your life. 45 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: Becomes part of you. 46 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 4: But there's no doubt that I don't like being in 47 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 4: big crowds, for example, and confined spaces because I've covered 48 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 4: mass shootings and I have that sort of in the 49 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 4: back of my mind. So you can't just shake these 50 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 4: experiences off. In many ways, being a front correspondence kind 51 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,399 Speaker 4: of like being a paramedic or you know, an emergency 52 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 4: responder because often you're there very early in the piece 53 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 4: and what your witness is stuff that other people don't see. 54 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: Were you compelled to be a journal like did you 55 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: fall into that? Is that something you wanted to do, 56 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: Were you fascinated with it? How did you end up there? 57 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 4: So when I was fifteen and I wanted to be 58 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 4: a horse vet because I grew up riding horses. 59 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, as you do. 60 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: My science teacher said, look, you'll get through vet science, 61 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 4: but you're a really good writer, and maybe you should 62 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 4: just play to your strengths. And so from the time 63 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 4: I was fifteen, I decided I was going to be 64 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 4: a journalist. And then I went and did an arts 65 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 4: journalism degree, and through that I decided I wanted to 66 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 4: be a foreign correspondent, and I just set about building 67 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 4: the skills that you need because you need to be 68 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 4: a really good multitasker, and especially in the modern media world, 69 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 4: you need to be able to do everything for yourself. 70 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: You need to be really self reliant. 71 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 4: So I just said about ticking those boxes so that 72 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 4: I could test myself internationally. 73 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: I feel like. 74 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: Being a politician, being a journal is it's about many things, 75 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: but maybe one of the commons denominators is how do 76 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: I build trust and respect and rapport and connection with 77 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: a group of people that are going to be paying 78 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: attention to me and my stuff? 79 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: Is that true? 80 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: Like that is one of the one of the skills 81 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: that you need is to be able to share what 82 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: can be uncomfortable or complicated messages in a way that's resonant. 83 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's sort of the outward facing part of it. 84 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 4: But I think actually the main thread between the two 85 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 4: things is listening and also listening without judgment. So you know, 86 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 4: when I was covering Donald Trump, for example, during the 87 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 4: first Trump administration, I covered the twenty sixteen election and 88 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 4: then lived in Washington and covered the White House, I 89 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 4: spent a lot of time talking to Trump supporters trying 90 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 4: to understand why they were supporting him despite his obvious 91 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 4: flaws around treatment of women and a whole range of stuff. 92 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 4: And you know, you just learn to have conversations differently, 93 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 4: and I think that's really useful in politics. 94 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 3: As well. 95 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 2: That's a really interesting Stephen Covey wrote a book which 96 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: you've probably heard of or maybe read one hundred years 97 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: ago called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, And 98 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: I think chapter four maybe or one or is you know, 99 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: seek first to understand, then to be understood. 100 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: And I feel like that's really how do you do that? 101 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: And how do you. 102 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: Because we're all emotional, right, doesn't you know unless you're 103 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: a complete sociopath, But how do you try to tone 104 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: down the emotion and your subjective kind of feelings and 105 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 2: just not let that come through the objective reporting or messaging. 106 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're going to have your own personal reaction 107 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: to things, I think, and you've got to accept that. 108 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 4: Your background, your upbringing, your life experiences, your current circumstance 109 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: may influence the way that you interpret something. But then 110 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 4: to be able to pause that and try and literally 111 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 4: put yourself in someone else's shoes, or often describe it 112 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 4: as looking through the other side of the prism to think, well, 113 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 4: how would this affect a person that I'm talking to? 114 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 4: And I think that when you're talking about policy and legislation, 115 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 4: that's really useful because you can go, well, what are 116 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 4: the unintended consequences of this, or what are the things 117 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 4: in this. 118 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 3: That might not occur to me. 119 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 4: And then you sort of go digging around for real 120 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 4: world impact of whatever it is that you're trying to 121 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 4: develop in terms of structural changes that affect people's lives. 122 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 4: I mean, that's what we do in the parliament. We 123 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 4: make laws, we make policies that affect people, and they 124 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 4: have to just keep bringing it back to that all 125 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 4: the time. 126 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: I'm really interested in I said to you before we 127 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: started rolling, I'm not a particularly political person, so we're 128 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 2: not going to have a political conversation, which may or 129 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: may not be good to good news to you. But 130 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: my PhD is around a thing called metaperception, which is, 131 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: in simple terms, your ability to understand the Zoe experience 132 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 2: for others you know, or my experience to understand what's 133 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: it like being around Crag or listening to gregor being 134 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: in an audience or you know whatever, And to also, 135 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: I guess, understand how other people think and see things, 136 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 2: which is theory of mind. This is a weird question, 137 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: but it's interesting for me. What do you think? How 138 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: do you think people? This is not loaded by the 139 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: way I ask a lot of people this, how do 140 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 2: you think people see you? Because on the one hand, 141 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: we go some people will go, I don't give a 142 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: fuck how people see me. But at the same time, 143 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: it matters how people see us, Right, how do you 144 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: do How do you feel about that? 145 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? 146 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 4: So I guess the way I speak to it is 147 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: around sort of my aspiration of who I try to be. 148 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 4: You know, no one is ever perfect, right, but if 149 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 4: the starting point is treat people as you want to 150 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 4: be treated, be respectful, be empathetic, but also be direct, 151 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 4: be honest. You know that it's never going to be 152 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 4: perfect for all people. And I think that's one of 153 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 4: the problems with politics if that, you know, our political 154 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 4: leaders just don't want to say, well, you know, some 155 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 4: people are not going to be happy with this. It's 156 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 4: never going to be one hundred percent perfect. There's always 157 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 4: going to be sort of winners and losers. So to 158 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 4: just try and be that good faith actor and also 159 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 4: call stuff out like be real yes, and you know again, 160 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 4: be the listener, like. 161 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: Do that really. 162 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 4: Direct community work here, talk to people, listen to people, 163 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 4: try and hear people out, even if the experience of 164 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 4: life is totally different to mine. I mean that's sort 165 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 4: of the whole point to try to then come up 166 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 4: with solutions which are broadly beneficial to most people. I 167 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 4: think that's sort of the best that you can hope for. 168 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I guess like what I find interesting is 169 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: and even for me, like we've got we go into 170 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: ninety countries, we don't have I mean, we're in terms 171 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: of Australian kind of personal development kind of show. We 172 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: have a lot of listeners, which is good. But you know, 173 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: I'm always like, I genuinely want to be the most 174 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 2: you know, without being inappropriate, the most authentic, real version 175 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: of me that I can be for people, right, not 176 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: because that's good pr or not because you know, but 177 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: just that that's how I am, and that sometimes that 178 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: works well and sometimes it's a fucking nightmare, right, But 179 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 2: that's okay. But at the same time, I still want 180 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 2: people to like me and like my brand and come 181 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: to my workshops and listen to my show. So there's 182 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: this kind of like there's this challenge where you want 183 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: to be real and authentic and you don't want to 184 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: be a kind of a manufactured facsimile or a persona. 185 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: But at the same time you've got a brand and 186 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: an image to maintain. 187 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: How do you kind of be authentic because you've got 188 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: people who as as which you should, you know, who 189 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: help you create a brand and pr and all that. 190 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: Of course, how in the middle of all of that 191 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: do you not just become a PERSONA. 192 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny because when I first started doing this, 193 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 4: well after I was selected as to be a candidate 194 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 4: a community organization back in twenty twenty one, and I 195 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 4: had my ad team and they described me as the product. 196 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not a bloody product, you know, 197 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: like I'm a person. 198 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 4: But you know, of course, advertising people are trying to 199 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 4: sell something, so in this case, they're trying to sell me. 200 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 4: The thing is, though, that I'm still in control of that, 201 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 4: like I still have my red lines, and I'm like, well, 202 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 4: you have to portray me as I really am, like 203 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 4: you know, as I do think of myself or try 204 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 4: to aspire to be the honest broker, the person of integrity, 205 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 4: the one who's direct he'll call stuff out, who thinks independently, 206 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 4: you know, all those things. So it's sort of different 207 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 4: to you know, selling a can of coke but not 208 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: telling people it's sugar. It's actually trying to be authentic 209 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 4: with that branding, like trying. 210 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 3: To sort of draw out the pieces of me that. 211 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 4: Me and my team think people need to see in 212 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 4: order to understand what I can do for them in 213 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 4: the Parliament that's different to what they've previously had. 214 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: What about being in the media and journalism broadly helped 215 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 1: you in politics? 216 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 4: Was? 217 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: I guess obviously the fact that you're talking all the 218 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: time and you're a good communicator. Is there anything else 219 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: that kind of was a nice preparation for your four 220 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: A MS politics more than a four A, but you're 221 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 2: entrein into the world of politics. 222 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 223 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 4: So I think one thing is that with all the 224 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 4: stuff that I've done, like covering Trump and politics around 225 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,479 Speaker 4: the world and Wall Street and refugee camps and terrorism 226 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 4: and plane crashes and climate disasters and all those sorts 227 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 4: of things, that a lot of that stuff provides really 228 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 4: good context for the kinds of decisions that I. 229 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 3: Have to make or the understanding of the world that 230 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 3: I need. 231 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 4: But I also think that, you know, getting back to 232 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 4: this who are you kind of peace, the mental toughness 233 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 4: of being a foreign correspondent, you know, I mean, I've 234 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 4: had to keep myself safe and my team safe in 235 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 4: all sorts of really hairy situations. 236 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 3: I've had to be a problem solver. 237 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 4: I've had to be you know, sort of tenacious and nimble. 238 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 4: And also as a female journal you know, you get 239 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 4: a lot of flat from people, and that's very similar 240 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 4: as an MP, not only for female lamps, but I 241 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 4: think it's you know, higher for female MPs. So that 242 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: degree of understanding that if you're in the public eye, 243 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 4: you know you're going to get sprayed all the time, 244 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 4: and a lot of people won't do it for that reason, 245 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 4: to be fair, and I totally hear that. 246 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 3: But you know, so I didn't go into it blindly. 247 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 4: Obviously, I knew what to some degree what that was like, 248 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 4: and I knew what that would be like. And also 249 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 4: getting back to sort of having conversations with people who 250 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 4: don't necessarily agree. 251 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 3: With me or pissed off with me for some reason. Yeah, 252 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 3: then I'm up for that. 253 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 4: You know, I'm up for people to tell me that 254 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 4: they're not happy with me. It's not comfortable, but I'm 255 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 4: up for hearing that. 256 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: Wow, And I mean it's inevitable, it's unavoidable. I mean, 257 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: I have you know, we have a really loyal following, 258 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: but I get at least one or two emails a 259 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 2: day from someone going you're a fuck. 260 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: With or whatever. 261 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 4: Right. 262 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: I had a bloke who sent me an email that 263 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 2: said he wanted to put me in a plane, fly 264 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: me over an active volcano and drop me in it. 265 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 2: I'm like, dear Brian, thanks for your feedback. You know, 266 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 2: really that seems extreme, Brian. 267 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, I. 268 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: Find you know, as from the outside looking in, I 269 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 2: find politics really interesting from a human behavior point of 270 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: view and from a psychology point of view and a 271 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: sociology point of view. And sometimes when people are talking 272 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,599 Speaker 2: about political this or political that, or this candidate or 273 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: that candidate, or this person or that person, and I 274 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: feel like the reason that they don't like that person 275 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: is purely emotional. It's like they don't like how they look. 276 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: I'm like, what what or that? What about his wow? 277 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: What about his fucking annoying voice? I'm like, well, that's 278 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 2: a good reason not to vote for him, I mean, 279 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: or to vote or it just seems like it's got 280 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: not a lot to do sometimes with any kind of 281 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: awareness or understanding policies or yeah, is that a hard 282 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: thing to contend with? When you know that people are 283 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: forming hard opinions of you based on let's be honest, 284 00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: fuck all. 285 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it can be frustrating. There's also this kind of oh, 286 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 4: what would you know, missy that kind of thing, and 287 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 4: it's like, well, I used I was a foreign correspondent 288 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 4: for fifteen years, you know, so what have you been 289 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 4: up to over that time? 290 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 3: That kind of thing. 291 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 4: And you know, look, while I say I'm up for 292 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 4: the conversation, I mean I'm not up for abuse. 293 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 3: I think there's there are lines, and you know, a 294 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 3: lot of. 295 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 4: Those lines get crossed, particularly in the digital world, but 296 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 4: increasingly on the street, where people feel, you know, quite 297 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 4: enable to scream at me and swear at me for 298 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 4: no reason that has any particular foundation. But I think 299 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 4: that you have to kind of just be able to 300 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 4: let that go to some degree. And also I think 301 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 4: there's some level of de escalating and having those conversations 302 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 4: with people to say, well, what's your actual issue here? 303 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 4: Like what do you what are you say angry with me? 304 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 4: You know, and if you can at least sort of 305 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 4: draw that thread out, often there's something else entirely that's 306 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 4: going on in that person's life that means that they're 307 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 4: generally furious with everyone or all politicians or or people 308 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 4: in leadership, and you know, sometimes we can help with 309 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 4: whatever that thing is. You know, they might be having 310 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: great difficulty navigating you know, the centerlingk system or whatever 311 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 4: it might be some government system, in which case sometimes 312 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 4: we can support them through that process. So yeah, I 313 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 4: think it's just, you know, while not sort of tolerating 314 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 4: that over the top abuse, trying to draw out those 315 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 4: conversations that can be had to try to find that 316 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 4: common ground. 317 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 318 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: When I when I did my when I went to 319 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: UNI for the first time, one of my lecturers, who 320 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 2: was a professor, he said to. 321 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: Me, mister Harper, what did you say, something like. 322 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: If you don't want to basically, if you don't want 323 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: any piss anyone off or then say nothing, do nothing, 324 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: be nothing, and stand for nothing. I'm like, that's true, 325 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: because the moment that you get a bit of a 326 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 2: tention or profile, someone who's never met you, never had 327 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 2: a conversation with you, doesn't know you, is going to 328 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: hate you or at the very. 329 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: Least you know. So I guess that's part of it. 330 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 2: And so like, obviously you're very resilient, you've been through 331 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: a lot of shit in a lot of different environments 332 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: and scenarios and challenges without giving away anything you don't 333 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: want to give away. 334 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: Or state secrets. How do you? 335 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: How do you manage you? How do you manage your 336 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: mental and emotional health? 337 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: How do you? How do you? 338 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: Because you, apart from all the other amazing shit that 339 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: you are, you know, in a loving, caring way, still 340 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: a human, how do you manage you? 341 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 3: Yeah? So I think I'm pretty blessed with my family. 342 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 4: I've got a sixteen year old daughter and an eighteen 343 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 4: year old son. 344 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 3: Husband is just a superstar in terms of. 345 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 4: His very active involvement with the kids and the running 346 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 4: of the house and you know everything, all of that 347 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 4: sort of functional stuff in our life and has been 348 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 4: for years because you know, as a foreign correspondent, who 349 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 4: would get a call and I'd be on a plane 350 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 4: next minute, not back for two weeks. And so he 351 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 4: works full time and has his own career, but he's 352 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 4: really involved, and so the structure of our life keeps running, 353 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 4: you know, the routine of our life keeps running, even 354 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 4: though I'm like a ping pong ball. And also the 355 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 4: kids are really supportive of this work, and it was 356 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 4: actually them, my son, particularly the older one, who said 357 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 4: when I was asked to run, and I was pretty 358 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 4: reluctant because politics can be pretty toxic, and he said, Mum, 359 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 4: someone's got to do something for us, you know, someone's 360 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 4: got in get in the room for the young people 361 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 4: and actually space up for us. And now when I 362 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 4: have my bad days, when I'm like, why the hell 363 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,959 Speaker 4: am I doing this? You know this happened, that happened, 364 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 4: someone said X y Z and he's just like, oh, 365 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 4: come on, mum, you know, stop being a woos. So 366 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 4: you know they're good, like they keep it real. You 367 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 4: try to have good family time. Like when we can 368 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 4: have family time, we try to have it. And my 369 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 4: other good outlet is running. 370 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 3: I just like to go for a run. 371 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 4: I'm in my own head when I run, I blast 372 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 4: my you know, motivational confidence tracks in my headphones and 373 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 4: that's kind of my escape. 374 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: So so if you if you couldn't be a politician 375 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 2: or a journal would it have been a vet? 376 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: Would that would that have been the path? 377 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 3: Yeah? 378 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 4: I mean I really wanted to be an Olympic equestrian, 379 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 4: but my family were not moneyed enough to support that 380 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 4: kind of pathway. 381 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: Because horses are very expensive. 382 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 4: But that was sort of my dream, and yeah, look 383 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 4: I do. I yearn for it a bit because you know, 384 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 4: I grew up in Tazzy in that sort of ear 385 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 4: and seventies and eighties where I'd be dropped off at 386 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 4: the horses at seven o'clock in the morning Mum or 387 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 4: dad had picked me up after dark in the freezing cold. 388 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 4: I would have been out all day. You know, if 389 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 4: you fall off the horse, you get back on. If 390 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 4: the fence is broken, you fix it and build a 391 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 4: lot of resilience. But also a love of the outdoors. 392 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 4: And you know, we're so lucky in Australia, the open 393 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 4: spaces that we have, and so I like when I 394 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 4: can get out into nature, I can breathe. And if 395 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: I can get out, you know, down the grad ocean 396 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 4: road occasionally and go for a run or get down 397 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 4: to the beach, you know that that gives. 398 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 3: Me a lot of energy to keep moving forward. 399 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: The has the also the exercise physiologist asking you here, 400 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 2: excise scientists, I should say, how's the body holding up? 401 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: At whatever you are fifty ish? Has it holding up? 402 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 3: Oh God, it's so boring, isn't it. 403 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, like a few niggles, A few niggles like a 404 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 4: bit of plant fascy it itis, a bit of the 405 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 4: sore heap here and there. Took up swimming to take 406 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 4: the pressure off from the running. Got a frozen shoulder, 407 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 4: so then went to running. 408 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, this side of. 409 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 4: Fifty is is annoying because you don't kind of realize 410 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 4: that you've aged, but your body likes to tell you 411 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 4: that you have. 412 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 3: And that's very dull. 413 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: It starts, shit starts to fall off, doesn't it, Tiff. 414 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: I wouldn't know. I'm not there yet. 415 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 2: Well, we know you're not fifty, but you're forty two 416 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: and you're bearing down. 417 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 3: And it is starting to fall off. The wheels are 418 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 3: getting wobbly. 419 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's because, as we were talking about before 420 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 2: Zoe got on, you're riding motorbikes and you got your 421 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: you got your shoulders pointing one way and your head 422 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 2: pointing another way, and you're in severe neck extension and 423 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: you're fucking up your neck. But anyway, that's why you 424 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: need a naked bike, not a sports bike. You can 425 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 2: sit more upright, but that's for another day. Zoe, back 426 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 2: to you. 427 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: Tell me about like I was talking to one of 428 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: your team. I won't mention his name. 429 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: Francis the other day and he was telling me that 430 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 2: you've got I don't know if I'm meant to say 431 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 2: this will cut. 432 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: There's out like a thousand volunteers or something. Is that right? 433 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we have, and that's fine to talk about that, 434 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 4: but they I mean, we've got more people coming on 435 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 4: every day at the moment, which is just awesome. 436 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 3: I love this point in the campaign. 437 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 4: So we've had hundreds of volunteers throughout the time, and 438 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 4: then of course, so closer it gets to the election, 439 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 4: that team builds and yeah, when you get up to 440 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 4: pre pole, because there's two weeks of pre pole before 441 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 4: the election day, everyone who hasn't had. 442 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 3: The time to volunteers like, okay, I'll do pre pole. 443 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 4: So you just have hundreds of people jumping on board 444 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 4: and it's really exciting. 445 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: It's so fun. 446 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had no idea. Like I caught up within 447 00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: the other day briefly. 448 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: We've been friends for a long time and he's like, yeah, 449 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 2: we've got to I'm like, what, Wow, that isn't so 450 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: what is what does that feel like? Is that is 451 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: that a good weight or not a weight at all? 452 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 2: Or a bad weight, Like is that the level of 453 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 2: I would feel with that level of expectation and pressure. 454 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: Maybe not in a bad way, but where you know, 455 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 2: you've got to lead these people, care for these people. 456 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: I guess inspire these people a bit. What's that like 457 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: to deal with? 458 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look it's there. 459 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 4: There's that sort of thing of you know, god, you know, 460 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 4: don't fuck it up basically, but. 461 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 2: You should use that in your campaign. I like, if 462 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: you want to be real, you want to be grounded. 463 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: Do you know that you don't know this? And bout story. 464 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: I've written seven books. The first book was called stop Fucking. 465 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: Around right Now. Everyone told me not to call it that. 466 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: This was pre all the other fuck books. This was 467 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: in twenty ten, and that has that one book has 468 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: outsold all my other books. 469 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: So I think you should. 470 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 2: You know, maybe you need some slogans or some posters 471 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: that say, don't fuck it up, Zoe Daniel, don't fuck 472 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 2: it up. 473 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: You know you'll get the Bogan vote. 474 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I get school teachers ring in my office 475 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 4: to tell me off. 476 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 3: And I do like to be a good role model 477 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 3: for the kids. 478 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 4: So but I'll say this, the volunteers carry me I 479 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 4: don't carry them right, Like, obviously I am there to 480 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 4: try to energize them, and we have big events where 481 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 4: I give like big speeches and really try to create 482 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 4: that inspiration. But I'm inspired by what they're doing, like 483 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 4: I take energy from them. 484 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 3: It's a really two way thing. 485 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 4: And at this point in the campaign, you know, three 486 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 4: weeks out, less than three weeks out from the election, 487 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 4: I feel great because I've got all these amazing people, 488 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 4: you know, door knocking and doing everything that you can 489 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 4: think of, riding bikes, walking dogs, with my T shirts 490 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 4: on running. 491 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 3: I had a crew of people who ran the. 492 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 4: Entire boundary of the electric at thirty five kilometers as 493 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 4: you know, to bring publicity to the campaign. Like they're 494 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 4: just everywhere and they're so beautiful and positive and hopeful, 495 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 4: and so that gives me energy. 496 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, when I talk to people about, you know, what 497 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 2: they want to do, be create, you know, we talk 498 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,479 Speaker 2: about goals and we talk about people's what, and then 499 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: then I talk to them about what's your why, Like 500 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 2: what's your driver, what's your compelling force, what's your reason? 501 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 2: And maybe you touched on it before with your kids, 502 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 2: but what's like seems to me, politics does not seem attractive, 503 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: not that I'm a political mind, but fuck politics, Like, 504 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 2: what's what's your why. 505 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 4: To provide a better future so the kids or at 506 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 4: least the same prosperity that we've had, you know, the 507 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 4: failings of the political system in providing good housing policy, 508 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 4: good climate policy, good tax policy. Like there's an infinite 509 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 4: number of things that I could reel off where the 510 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 4: major parties just throw the ball between them and never 511 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 4: actually make any progress on these things. 512 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 3: And I think independence can take more. 513 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 4: Risks because at the end of the day, if I 514 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 4: don't get re elected on one person, right, but I 515 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 4: can go out harder on things for the kids. 516 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 3: And you know, I do so much work in schools. 517 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 5: Our kids are weighed down by so much pressure around 518 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 5: how the climate looks, the fact that they can't buy 519 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 5: a house, that the tax burdens, student debt, gambling, advertising, 520 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 5: a million things, and someone's got to be in there 521 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 5: standing up for them. 522 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 3: You know, someone has to do it. 523 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 4: And if there's one central reason to do it, it's 524 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 4: that to try to only gives them a voice. 525 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 3: But really fight for. 526 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 4: Better policy settings that actually enable them to thrive and 527 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 4: have the life that they deserve. 528 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a million answers to this question, but 529 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: what is something that the average punter like Tiff and 530 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 2: I and I would think most of our listeners might 531 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 2: not understand about being a politician, like. 532 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: Where you go a bit in? 533 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 2: Never thought of this, or you know, is there something 534 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: that you go if people only knew. I'm sure there's 535 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's fifty things. 536 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 4: But look, I think that there's there's two obvious things. 537 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 4: And I'm not going to go, oh for politicians, but 538 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 4: because everyone's like, oh politicians, they've just got those snouts 539 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 4: in the trough and it's all really easy. I mean, basically, 540 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 4: you go into politics, you work twenty four seven, you 541 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 4: spend For me, I spend six months of the year 542 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 4: away from home, five or six months away from home 543 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 4: up in Canberra. And then when I'm out on the 544 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 4: street sometimes people scream at. 545 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 3: Me, and you know, it can feel hard. But the 546 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 3: thing is that you balance that up. 547 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 4: With the really satisfying elements of it. When you crack 548 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 4: through on something that is important and you've been really 549 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 4: pushing hard for it, and it makes a difference and 550 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 4: you think that's the reason to be there, and you 551 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 4: know the. 552 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 3: Earlier things I said are the reason that a lot. 553 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 4: Of people won't do it, but some people, some people 554 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 4: have to do it. You know, you've got to get 555 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 4: in there with the backbone and try and stand up 556 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 4: for good decision making, because you know, you can't really 557 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 4: complain if you're not going to participate in it. And 558 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 4: luckily for me, with the sort of background that I have, 559 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 4: I have the capacity to do that. 560 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: So what's on the excessive to do list between now 561 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: and the election? Like, is it's still as it may 562 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: hem right up to the day. What's your focus for 563 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks. 564 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 3: Just being out in community as much as possible. 565 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 4: So the big thing that I have and the other 566 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 4: independents have, as we've already talked about, is the ground 567 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 4: game with so many volunteers, and because I'm prosecuting the 568 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 4: case for people to vote for me as an individual, 569 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 4: not for a major party brand, the main thing that 570 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 4: I have to do is get in front of as 571 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 4: many people as possible and have the conversation before election day, 572 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 4: and also for my volunteers to do that for me. 573 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 4: If I can't be physically in front of one hundred 574 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 4: plus thousand people who are voting. 575 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 3: In this electorate. 576 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 4: But it really is being out there having conversations, pushing 577 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 4: the for doing politics differently, and it's all of that. 578 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 4: It's leaf lining, it's door knocking, it's pop up officers. 579 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 4: Got an event politics in the pub tonight, so all 580 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 4: those sorts of things which will do right up until 581 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 4: the last votescast. 582 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: Well, it's been great talking to you. 583 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 2: I know I could talk to you for a long time, 584 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: but I know you don't have a long time because 585 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: you're an incredibly busy woman. Hey, thanks for taking some 586 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: time in your schedule and having probably what is for 587 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 2: you a somewhat unconventional chat to somebody in the kind 588 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 2: of in the media social media will call it. 589 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: But hope things go great for you. 590 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: And really nice to meet you, and thanks for being 591 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 2: raw and real and honest. 592 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 3: Thanks Craig. Thanks, thanks for having me. 593 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: Enjoy the rest of your day and good luck with 594 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: a campaign. 595 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 3: Appreciate it.