WEBVTT - Police v protestors

0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:09.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. This week,

0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.040
<v Speaker 1>more than a dozen people were arrested while protesting at

0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:16.200
<v Speaker 1>a defense conference in Sydney. The demonstrators from Palestine Action

0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.640
<v Speaker 1>Group were protesting the presence of Israeli defense contractors who

0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.720
<v Speaker 1>are exhibiting at the event. The riot squad, along with

0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.320
<v Speaker 1>dogs and mounted police officers, clashed with protesters and used

0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.320
<v Speaker 1>pepper spray several times on the crowd. Clashes like this

0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.280
<v Speaker 1>one have become routine in Australia with a change in

0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.479
<v Speaker 1>police tactics, as officers increasingly use pepper spray and rubber bullets.

0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Today journalist and author Ariel Bogel on the use of

0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.559
<v Speaker 1>these so called non lethal weapons and how protesting in

0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Australia has become more dangerous. It's Sunday, November nine, and

0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.800
<v Speaker 1>this episode was originally published in October.

0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:02.200
<v Speaker 2>So Ariel.

0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.440
<v Speaker 1>At the moment, we're seeing weekly public protests, thousands of

0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:11.040
<v Speaker 1>people gathering regularly in pro Palestine marches, also climate protests.

0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.479
<v Speaker 1>We saw anti immigration rallies. As all of this happens, though,

0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.240
<v Speaker 1>we are also regularly hearing reports of people being injured,

0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.600
<v Speaker 1>sometimes quite seriously.

0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:20.959
<v Speaker 2>By police.

0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.640
<v Speaker 1>So can you tell me some of the stories that

0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.280
<v Speaker 1>you've been looking at of this happening.

0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:26.119
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, I've been.

0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.160
<v Speaker 3>Tracking these same protests that you're talking about and just

0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.800
<v Speaker 3>noticing perhaps an uptick in the appearance of what you

0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.480
<v Speaker 3>call leslie or police tools. So these are things like

0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.480
<v Speaker 3>oc spray, pepper spray in some cases, rubber bullets, things

0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.360
<v Speaker 3>called flashbangs that kind of let off a loud sound

0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.760
<v Speaker 3>like sort of miniature explosives for one of a better

0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:53.680
<v Speaker 3>way to put it. The inventive branch now also trying

0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.840
<v Speaker 3>to stop this group which is on the Clarendon Street.

0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Side, from coming down along the era.

0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.480
<v Speaker 3>Jeez, that's so pepper spray gets in the area. I

0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.040
<v Speaker 3>started wondering what impact this might be having on protesters

0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.240
<v Speaker 3>or others observing them, And one person I spoke to

0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.680
<v Speaker 3>was Alex Zuko. She's a photographer in Melbourne who was

0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.760
<v Speaker 3>pepper sprayed while doing her job as a photojournalist at

0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.200
<v Speaker 3>a protest in Melbourne towards the end of last year.

0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.280
<v Speaker 2>It caused her to go blind for about an hour.

0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.359
<v Speaker 2>She needed help. There was another.

0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.200
<v Speaker 3>Photographer too was injured at the same protest. He told

0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.120
<v Speaker 3>me he was hit in the ear with a rubber

0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.280
<v Speaker 3>bullet and required medical attention for that.

0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.760
<v Speaker 1>And tell me a bit more about these weapons, about

0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.560
<v Speaker 1>the OC spray and the rubber bullets, these things that

0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.520
<v Speaker 1>police seem to be using a protest. What I mean,

0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.520
<v Speaker 1>can they cause long term damage?

0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.120
<v Speaker 3>So when we use the term OC spray, we were

0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.600
<v Speaker 3>referring to the kind of chemical compound us in the

0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.680
<v Speaker 3>spray that causes that intense burning to the eye. And

0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.320
<v Speaker 3>people told me it's like getting stabbed in the eye.

0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.520
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's really excruciating if it gets into your eyeball.

0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.240
<v Speaker 3>And people probably have heard of pepper spray, but they

0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.320
<v Speaker 3>might have this idea it's like a small cannacy sort

0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.200
<v Speaker 3>of spray it someone's eye kind of miss. These days,

0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.320
<v Speaker 3>the type that police have is it's more like a

0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.519
<v Speaker 3>sticky foam, if you can imagine it. The issue is too,

0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.800
<v Speaker 3>like how to get it off. A lot of people

0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.280
<v Speaker 3>who go to the protests now have techniques for doing this,

0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.079
<v Speaker 3>but when you get home, you need to have a shower,

0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.119
<v Speaker 3>get out of your hair, get out of your eyebrows,

0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.480
<v Speaker 3>get out of your clothes. But it's not a simple

0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.000
<v Speaker 3>thing to get this stuff off. And then of course

0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:28.000
<v Speaker 3>there are things like rubber bullets or different forms of projectiles.

0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.240
<v Speaker 3>We heard from somebody Kylie Martin. She says she was

0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.680
<v Speaker 3>shot in the leg by police with a projectile she

0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.080
<v Speaker 3>believes was a baton round. Just for clarity, a baton

0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.360
<v Speaker 3>round they can be fired from a weapon ressembling a

0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.320
<v Speaker 3>kind of grenade launcher. So in a statement she said

0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.560
<v Speaker 3>that police were just shooting into the crowded protesters, and

0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.520
<v Speaker 3>she claims to have had lasting pain and damage to

0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.560
<v Speaker 3>her leg. And when we look at injuries from these

0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.080
<v Speaker 3>tools globally, we can see really serious instances of injury,

0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:00.360
<v Speaker 3>brain damage, and even death. I think the term less

0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.000
<v Speaker 3>legal quote unquote is a bit of a misnomer. Certainly,

0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.360
<v Speaker 3>these tools, especially projectiles, can be lethal depending on how

0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.400
<v Speaker 3>they're used, so they're not something to be used lightly.

0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.240
<v Speaker 3>So police have growing access to these types of tools,

0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.200
<v Speaker 3>but there has been a bit of a lack of

0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.799
<v Speaker 3>public discussion or examination I think of how these tools

0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.800
<v Speaker 3>are being used and even what tools are out there.

0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.320
<v Speaker 3>I think the average Australian might be quite shocked if

0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.000
<v Speaker 3>they go to a protest and see police with some

0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:27.520
<v Speaker 3>of these things.

0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:29.640
<v Speaker 2>They might never even heard of them.

0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.919
<v Speaker 1>And so where are these tools developed and how do

0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.839
<v Speaker 1>they make their way to Australian police forces.

0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so when you look at some of the manufacturers

0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:43.280
<v Speaker 3>of sea spray, flash bangs, rubber bullets, they do often

0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.640
<v Speaker 3>come out of companies that make other more traditionally legal weapons.

0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:49.680
<v Speaker 3>They often have a side trade in these kind of

0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.080
<v Speaker 3>less legal policing tools. So we got some new South

0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.160
<v Speaker 3>Wales parliamentary documents that show some of the caps can

0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:01.200
<v Speaker 3>spray launchers used by police are made by Germany's largest

0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.760
<v Speaker 3>arms manufacturers, Ryan Metal. I'm not one hundred percent sure

0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.640
<v Speaker 3>what brand the Victoria police use at the moment. There

0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.240
<v Speaker 3>have been a range of reports on that topic, but

0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.240
<v Speaker 3>certainly some of the legal observers at some protests in

0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:19.159
<v Speaker 3>late twenty twenty four, especially outside the Landforces Arms Expo,

0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.520
<v Speaker 3>which sort of faced a quite significant protests over a

0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.960
<v Speaker 3>number of days, observed the use of these flashbank kind

0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.360
<v Speaker 3>of devices as well, and you know.

0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.480
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty terrifying by all accounts.

0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, I spoke to one police officer in the

0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.320
<v Speaker 3>United States who trains officers on how to use these tools,

0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.839
<v Speaker 3>and to his mind, they are a form of explosive

0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.960
<v Speaker 3>So you really have to make sure officers are trained

0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.200
<v Speaker 3>in their use and really consider the fact that if

0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:45.880
<v Speaker 3>you throw such a thing into a crowd, it can

0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.960
<v Speaker 3>cause panic, it can cause stampede and cause a range

0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.640
<v Speaker 3>of injuries. And I guess there's just very little accountability

0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:54.400
<v Speaker 3>or discussion about how police.

0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Are using these tools.

0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Coming up the people who are suing police over the

0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:00.520
<v Speaker 1>US force.

0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I think that most Australians think.

0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.120
<v Speaker 1>That we do or we should have the right peaceful protests,

0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.800
<v Speaker 1>that being able to do that is an important and

0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.880
<v Speaker 1>normal part of living in a democracy. But in recent

0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.440
<v Speaker 1>years we have seen various state governments introduced laws that

0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.400
<v Speaker 1>restrict that right to protest. So can you tell me

0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.440
<v Speaker 1>more about that and about how that has in turn

0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.559
<v Speaker 1>affected the way that policing works.

0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:37.320
<v Speaker 3>I think Australia's attitude to protest I wouldn't say it

0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.120
<v Speaker 3>has ever been like one hundred percent friendly.

0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:39.840
<v Speaker 2>If you go and.

0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.880
<v Speaker 3>Talk to protesters against the damning of the Franklin River

0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.359
<v Speaker 3>and Tasmania, you know there was continuous face off with

0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:47.320
<v Speaker 3>police over that.

0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.000
<v Speaker 2>There have been protests, of course.

0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.680
<v Speaker 3>Against various conflicts, but reports coming out of places like

0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.520
<v Speaker 3>the Human Rights Law Center have suggested there is a

0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.280
<v Speaker 3>growing crackdown and they are found at least forty nine

0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.000
<v Speaker 3>laws in active by governments have constricted the right to

0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.040
<v Speaker 3>protest over the past twenty years.

0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:06.000
<v Speaker 2>If we look here in New.

0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.839
<v Speaker 3>South Wales, where I am our state may be considered

0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.119
<v Speaker 3>to have led the pack in that way. There's broad

0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:15.840
<v Speaker 3>discretion now for police to penalize people who disrupt major

0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.880
<v Speaker 3>roads or infrastructure. But there's a lot of discretion there

0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.560
<v Speaker 3>for police to decide what is a major road, what

0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.120
<v Speaker 3>is infrastructure when they can use these laws. Other states

0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.680
<v Speaker 3>have rolled out a suite of similar legislation. What was

0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.640
<v Speaker 3>suggested to me by a variety of lawyers and advocates

0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.880
<v Speaker 3>is this is creating a permissive environment for use of

0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.920
<v Speaker 3>force by police. We managed to get our hands on

0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.800
<v Speaker 3>some of the statistics. There has been an uptick in

0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.640
<v Speaker 3>use of force in general in New South Wales and

0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.880
<v Speaker 3>also you know hundreds of documented cases of use of

0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:48.920
<v Speaker 3>OC spray in Victoria.

0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Again, when you're relying on.

0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.440
<v Speaker 3>Police to report use of force, it's not always an

0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.040
<v Speaker 3>accurate record, so it's a complicated space to get a

0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:58.520
<v Speaker 3>really clear picture of.

0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.440
<v Speaker 2>But it does seem like use of force in general

0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:01.120
<v Speaker 2>is on the up.

0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.000
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about the data that you have managed

0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.320
<v Speaker 1>to gather about the increase in use of force against protesters.

0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.480
<v Speaker 3>This is really part of a trend I know at

0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.200
<v Speaker 3>this point of at least four settled cases in Victoria

0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.560
<v Speaker 3>since twenty twenty one, cases have been brought against Victoria

0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.600
<v Speaker 3>police and they've been settled over the treatment of photographers

0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.880
<v Speaker 3>and journalists, including the use of OC spray.

0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:23.520
<v Speaker 2>We also found there.

0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Were at least seven protesters alleging police violence who have

0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:30.080
<v Speaker 3>active civil cases in the Victorian County Court. There are

0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.080
<v Speaker 3>a range of allegations there, including a dislocated shoulder, burning

0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.400
<v Speaker 3>painted testicles, caused by police including through the use of

0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.400
<v Speaker 3>OC spray or foam, and what was claimed to be

0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:45.720
<v Speaker 3>unnecessarily violent arrests and through FOI. We did get data

0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.120
<v Speaker 3>that showed in New South Wales overall number of incidents

0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.000
<v Speaker 3>where force has been used has risen from almost eighty

0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:56.400
<v Speaker 3>twenty seventeen eighteen to more than nine thousand in the

0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.079
<v Speaker 3>last financial year, but that data couldn't be broken down

0:08:59.120 --> 0:08:59.959
<v Speaker 3>by protests scenario.

0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.599
<v Speaker 2>We could see too that OC spray was used almost.

0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.240
<v Speaker 3>Nine hundred times in New South Wales in the past

0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.400
<v Speaker 3>financial year, as well as more than two thousand takedowns

0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.400
<v Speaker 3>which is kind of where police might sweep the leg

0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.240
<v Speaker 3>out of somebody to get them to the ground as

0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.800
<v Speaker 3>part of an arrest. And we saw there too in

0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.240
<v Speaker 3>those stats, fifty four percent of those who had experienced

0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.840
<v Speaker 3>a takedown identified themselves as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait islander.

0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.960
<v Speaker 1>And there is the obvious question then, of what you

0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.440
<v Speaker 1>do if you believe you've been on the other end

0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.480
<v Speaker 1>of that, if you've been assaulted by a police officer

0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.600
<v Speaker 1>at a protest, where do you turn?

0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:34.199
<v Speaker 2>What do you do?

0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's definitely tough. Various states have different mechanisms for

0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:41.840
<v Speaker 3>making complaints. But I spoke to a law professor, Simon Rice.

0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.240
<v Speaker 3>He won a case against New South Wales police a

0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.400
<v Speaker 3>few years ago for assault, battery and false imprisonment. He

0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.640
<v Speaker 3>was thrown to the ground and arrested while observing a

0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.920
<v Speaker 3>student protest at Sydney University back in twenty twenty. In

0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.679
<v Speaker 3>his view, there was no really realistic way of complaining

0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.600
<v Speaker 3>about police overstepping the mark general investigate themselves if you

0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.400
<v Speaker 3>can plain directly, a lot of the oversight bodies really

0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.760
<v Speaker 3>take on only kind of systemic instances of police misconduct

0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.080
<v Speaker 3>or corruption. And again, as I mentioned, it's really hard

0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.760
<v Speaker 3>to get those sheer numbers. You know, after a protest,

0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.360
<v Speaker 3>police often come out and announce how many people were

0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.480
<v Speaker 3>arrested at an event, but there's not really a public

0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.079
<v Speaker 3>record of how many times force was.

0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Used, what was used, what tools were used, and whether

0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:26.800
<v Speaker 2>it was appropriate.

0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.200
<v Speaker 3>So that level of accountability is really difficult to obtain

0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.040
<v Speaker 3>without taking legal action, and so we did speak to

0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.199
<v Speaker 3>a number of protesters who feel their only option to

0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.120
<v Speaker 3>get an outcome was to take it to court. There's actually,

0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.440
<v Speaker 3>in fact a class action currently underway in Victoria about

0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.839
<v Speaker 3>police use of OC spray back in twenty nineteen at

0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.800
<v Speaker 3>the I Mark climate protest, so the outcome there will

0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.320
<v Speaker 3>be interesting because that will play out in public. We did,

0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.880
<v Speaker 3>of course approach police in Victoria and New South Wales

0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.719
<v Speaker 3>when working on this story. Victoria police told us that

0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.400
<v Speaker 3>it makes no apologies for officers having to use force

0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.120
<v Speaker 3>to separate and safely disperse crowds during protests. They said

0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.400
<v Speaker 3>they don't attend protests with aim of using force, but

0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.880
<v Speaker 3>is always in response to the actions of protesters.

0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.559
<v Speaker 1>And what effect do you think all of this is,

0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:23.360
<v Speaker 1>having this use of force protests, both on the individual

0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.400
<v Speaker 1>level on people who you know might go to protests

0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.439
<v Speaker 1>or you know, decide not to and expose as well

0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.600
<v Speaker 1>on the bigger level in terms of how you think

0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.760
<v Speaker 1>the very idea of protesting or going or peaceful protesting

0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:38.920
<v Speaker 1>is seen in Australia now.

0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, certainly people that have been affected by these tools.

0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:43.480
<v Speaker 3>A lot of the people I spoke with, you know,

0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.800
<v Speaker 3>it remained with them. You know, if you get oc

0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.280
<v Speaker 3>sprayed directly in the eyes, that type of pain, you know,

0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.320
<v Speaker 3>you don't forget it quickly. I think it might you know,

0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.560
<v Speaker 3>affect people's willingness.

0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:54.240
<v Speaker 2>To share up and protest.

0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.520
<v Speaker 3>It's part of this overall picture of antagonism in some

0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.520
<v Speaker 3>parts of the media to protest. We do have an

0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 3>implied right political communication in the Australian Constitution which is

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.640
<v Speaker 3>read as supporting protest for very little positive law.

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.520
<v Speaker 2>About that fact. I think some people when they show

0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.200
<v Speaker 2>up to protest might be surprised about the kind of.

0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.480
<v Speaker 3>Use of force that they're facing, because again it's not

0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 3>well known that police have these kinds of tools in general.

0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, Ariel, thank you so much for your time.

0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Ruby, thanks for listening to this

0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.320
<v Speaker 1>episode of seven AM. We work hard to make seven

0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.679
<v Speaker 1>am as relevant and as interesting as possible. If there's

0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:47.680
<v Speaker 1>a topic you would like us to explore, we would

0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:49.600
<v Speaker 1>love you to get in touch with us. You can

0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.600
<v Speaker 1>email us at seven am podcast at Solstice media dot

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.720
<v Speaker 1>com dot au with feedback.

0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.959
<v Speaker 2>Ideas or story tips. We'll be back tomorrow.

0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Catch you, Ben,