WEBVTT - Australia, the ‘land of suck-it-up’ 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.880 I think the cost of living crisis is a phrase 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.880 on everyone's lips, but it doesn't tell the whole story. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.760 I think there's a context of growing inequity and inequality 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.160 in Australia. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.640 We're constantly hearing that Australia is in a cost of 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.520 living crisis, and we know that because the prices typical 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.119 Australians pay for everyday things have been going up much 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:23.360 faster than our wages. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:28.320 The cost of living is useful in that that affects everybody. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.920 Everyone can see that their growthrough are going up, but 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.080 I think it's also worth remembering that they're going up 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.280 more for people who are already poor. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.360 This is Casey Chambers. She's the executive director of Anglicare Australia. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.520 Anglic Care works with the poorest and most vulnerable Australians 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:49.040 and that's who Casey is used to seeing, families, young 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:53.080 people and children who are homeless or in crisis. But 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.360 Casey says more and more people have been seeking help 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.600 every day and they aren't the types of people should 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.720 typically see. 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.800 I hesitate to use the word middle class. New people 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.360 that you know a demographic wouldn't have seen before, and 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.240 we're seeing them more often. We're actually seeing them in 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.760 every fortnight, every pay cycle, and it's very common for 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.039 us to be talking to people who are skipping meals, 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:26.760 not ensuring the family car, not filling their scripts at 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.959 the pharmacist. People talking to us about the anxiety of 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.360 every single day not knowing whether they're going to be 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.160 able to afford the rent, or just praying that another 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.319 bill won't come in just yet. And we'll start to 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.360 see those people in our emergency housing services who are 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.200 coming to those services saying, you know, I can only 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.760 keep juggling the rent for another month, or I've just 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.520 heard from the landlord that my rent's being put up 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.480 sixty dollars a week. What are my options? And unfortunately, 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:03.040 the end part of that cascade is homelessness. 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:05.560 We do know, unfortunately many. 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.480 Many families around the country where kids are going to 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.000 school from cars. We really should be able to find 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:13.720 people places to be. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.360 From Schwartz Media in seven Am, I'm Ashlin McGee. This 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:27.120 is the cost inside the living crisis. This week, as 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.040 we approach a federal budget that could define this government 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.160 and that conditions so many of us are living with, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.360 we're bringing you the cost inside the Living crisis. We're 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.040 going to explore the impact this crisis is having on 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.960 our country, why it just isn't ending, and whether our 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.680 leaders are doing enough to protect our standard of living 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.799 today Executive Director of the Australia Institute, Richard Dennis, and 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.880 when prices will finally stop going up and the kind 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.960 of country we risk turning into once it's finally over. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:08.919 It's Monday, May thirteen, all right, Richard, I want to 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:10.680 start with a question I think all of us are 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.200 hoping there's an answer to, which is when does this 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.040 cost of living crisis end? 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.200 Well, it ends when the people who sell us stuff 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.960 stop jacking up the prices so fast. And the problem 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:24.760 is that people who sell us stuff have had a 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.799 great couple of years, So our cost of living crisis 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.800 is their profit surge. And you know, we talk about 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.280 like we're all in this together or something. Well know, 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.000 when we talk about the cost of living, the cost 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.080 of living, we make it this singular thing, the cost 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.800 of living. But of course there's twenty five million people 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.320 out there that have all got entirely different costs of living. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.040 So the fact is young people in Australia are doing 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:56.520 particularly tough because they're already on the lowest incomes, they're 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.680 spending every cent they earn, if not actually going into debt. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.200 For a young person who moved out of home a 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.320 year ago, who's in a low paid job, who's repaying 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.640 their heck's debt, I'm telling you now, they are hurting bad. 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:15.080 And by historic standards, yeah, have really endured a reduction 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.400 in their disposable income and their quality of life. You know, 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.719 that's unprecedented in modern Australian history. So unfortunately, no one 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.599 knows when the cost of living crisis will end, because 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.760 it's not cause it's not that rain, it's not like 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.239 a storm. It's not like we're waiting for nature to pass. 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.360 What we're waiting for is for the people who sell 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.159 us things to stop jacking up their prices so much 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:42.440 and get back to wages rising faster than prices. At 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.279 the moment, we've got prices rising faster than wages. Again, 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.520 that's good for the people who sell stuff, as bad 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.279 for the people who work for living and buy stuff. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.200 And so is this different from the kind of inflation 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.120 crisis that we've seen in the past. 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.719 Yeah, no, it's really quite different. So no one knows 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.680 when it will end. We don't know exactly what the 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.880 Reserve Bank will do. We don't know what will happen, 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.280 you know, the Russia's invasion of the Ukraine, and the 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.600 oil price, and you know, all sorts of things. That's 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.800 why we don't know. What we do know is that 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:18.040 this really started after the COVID crisis ended. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.159 If you thought you'd been paying more for meat, veggies 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.600 and petrol over the past few months, you were right. 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.760 Australia's annual inflation rate leapt to three point eight percent 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.200 in the June quarter, the highest jump in more than 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:33.480 a decade. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:35.800 All of a sudden, people who had been locked away, 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.920 unable to spend money, you know, stuck at home, working 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.720 from home, no holidays, no going out to the movies, 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.880 no going to see a band. All of a sudden, 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.520 when people could actually go out and spend money again, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.360 they did, and they flooded out, and a whole bunch 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.880 of people who sell things to those people thought, oh, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.000 I can't even fit you all on my plane, so 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.960 I'll double the price of getting on my play. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.240 Well, travel agents say they've never seen anything like it, 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.920 with no such thing as cheap seats this summer, and 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.120 airlines struggling to meet demand. 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:10.440 Or I can't fit you all in my restaurant, so 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.000 I'll double the price of my restaurant meal. So another 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.480 big part of it is both in Australia around the world, 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.880 we get what we call supply chain bottlenecks. The big 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.279 factories in China that made a lot of this stuff 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.400 were severely disrupted by COVID. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:27.640 What we're seeing now is that there's a lot of 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.159 goods that are just stock in China. 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:30.960 They can't get out. I mean, if you want to 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.640 get your goods to export them see from the port 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.719 New Shanghai, you can't get them map because you can't 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:38.520 even get the drivers to come and bring you. And 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.880 then you've got the profit gouging, the price gouging. What 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.039 you saw was a whole bunch of companies who were thinking, oh, well, 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:47.880 it's been a while since I put up my price, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:49.960 and everyone else seems to be putting up their price 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.480 at the moment. Now would be a good time for 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:53.719 me to put up my price. 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.919 More than two thirds of our nation's inflation problem is 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.880 made up of increased corporate profits, wages barely moving the 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:02.880 dial from pre code. 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.760 So all of those things have combined and we've seen 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:10.480 record inflation. I've seen real wages fall, which is pretty 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:14.440 rare in Australia. And now now you know, things are 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.520 coming back. You know, wages are starting to grow a bit, 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.160 inflation is coming down a bit. But yeah, we're certainly 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.720 not out of the woods. And while we might get 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:25.440 out of the woods, we're going to wind up in 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.600 a paddock that wasn't as nice as the paddock we 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:31.680 were in Beforehead. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.680 And Richard, you know, do you accept that consumer spending 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.560 has been a big part of this or do you 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:36.600 disagree with that? 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.320 Look, it's a part of it, but let's be clear, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:44.000 consumers isn't a thing. You're a consumer, I'm a consumer. 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:46.960 What I do and what you do isn't the same. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.000 So some people are really hurting right now, and let's 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.440 be clear, other people are having a great time right 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.120 you know. CEO pay is doing fine, high income earners, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.400 wages arising faster than low and coome owners. Are consumers 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.800 out there still spending? Yes they are. But again, this 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.520 is the problem when we treat the economy as this 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.360 big singular thing, and when we talk about the cost 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:17.360 of living, and when we talk about consumers as one big, cohesive, 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.040 homogeneous group. We really miss what's happening Richard, this. 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.320 Cost of living crisis, this inflation was forecast to be 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.040 over by now. So can you talk to me about 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.040 who's been forecasting that? And you know, perhaps whether it's 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.560 mystified some people in your profession economists, and you know 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:34.839 why it hasn't ended yet. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.200 My profession are mystified all the time. But you know, 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.559 we're just really good at pretending that we know more 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.440 than everyone else about what's going to happen. Look, no 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.600 one has a crystal ball. And you know, basically at 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.920 the Reserve Bank of Australia, the RBA has jacked up 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:55.680 interest rates really fast and really high. And that's to 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.840 be clear, designed to put a lot of pressure on 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.239 people with mortgages. The idea. This is not an unintended consequence. 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.120 This is the plan. This is the lever. When you 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.800 increase interest rates a lot and people's mortgage or payments 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.840 go up a lot, the people whose mortgage or payments 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.160 went up a lot spend a lot less at the movies, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.560 They spend a lot less at the supermarket, They spend 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:22.800 a lot less on a whole bunch of things. Well, 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.400 inflation is trending down, but why hasn't happened fast enough? 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.679 How long is a piece of string? But inflation is 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.160 coming down, it is going in the right direction. I 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.160 think it's wrong to get too obsessed with the inflation rate. 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.960 It's dangerous and we might end up accidentally having a 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.400 recession and causing a lot of unemployment and a lot 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:47.360 of pain because some people are so worried about inflation 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.319 being you know, four percent instead of three percent. 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.720 After the break, can the government ease the pain without 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.079 first inflicting more of it. 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.800 So the budget will balance the near term pressures that 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:18.320 people are under under and the longer term goals and 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:23.200 opportunities in our economy. It will fight inflation without smashing 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.120 the economy. It won't be a smash and grab budget 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.040 because people are hurting and the economy is slowing. But 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.559 there will be a premium on responsibility and restraint. There 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.000 will be savings in the budget. There will be spending 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:39.240 restraint in the budget. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.200 So, Richard, as we head into a week where we're 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.160 going to see this really important federal budget, I want 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.040 to ask a bit more about that approach that you 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.920 just spoke about. What is it that we could change 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:50.960 or we could be doing differently as a country to 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:51.560 combat it? 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.080 Oh well, what is it about that approach? Look, just 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.240 to be clear, a lot of people like that approach. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.079 A lot of people at the reserve being like that approach, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.640 a lot of people in Treasury like that approach, a 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.360 lot of people in Parliament like that approach, and a 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:10.400 lot of economists like loading up pain on people to 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:15.280 control inflation. I'm an economist, but I don't like that approach. 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.240 I think interest rates have a role to play in 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.400 managing the economy. I think inflation is something that you 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.920 want to take seriously. But I think there's a lot 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.960 broader range of policy tools available for governments if they're 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.040 worried about inflation, then simply loading up pain on young 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:36.920 people with mortgages. So, for example, during COVID, we made 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:42.040 childcare free. Guess what, when you make childcare free, you 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:46.600 lower the cost of living because childcare counts in our 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:51.200 consumer price index. This is not terribly complicated stuff. And 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.400 if we want to impose some pain on people, if 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:59.479 we want to take some consumer demand out of the economy. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.240 Crazy thought, what if instead of tax cuts for high 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.240 income earners we had tax increases for high income owners. 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.840 What if we increase taxes on high income owners who 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.840 were spending the interest they get on their deposits, on 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.960 their Newtellian, their overseas holiday. We could take demand out 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.440 of the economy that way. But we live in a 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.920 country where it's kind of heresy to talk about that, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.160 and it's big and important to say that consumers have 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.440 to take their pain for the national good. Well, high 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.480 income owners aren't taking their pain. They're about to get 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.079 a four thousand dollars tax cut that could cause inflation. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.080 I don't hear many people complaining about that. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.600 And so what appetite do you think there is in 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.120 government now to take on those kind of big, sort 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.520 of sacred cows really and make some big structural changes 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.320 and also demonstrate confidently that those things are going to work. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.080 Well, we know they work because we've done them before 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.640 and they worked. There's nothing hypothetical about this. In last 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.120 year's budget, Jim Chalmers took a leaf out of the 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.200 book that I just described and designed a sort of 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:06.720 an energy price supplement that was designed to improve people's 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.120 cost of living and lower inflation. You asked about the 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.520 appetite I think they're starving for this, but they also 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.800 know that a change this big, a change in the 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.800 way to admit the economy works, and a change in 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.880 the role of government in controlling inflation. They know that's 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.400 a big task. And I suspect they're just kind of 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.640 chipping away at the edges rather than saying, look, you know, 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.720 this is a new problem. We need a new approach. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.000 As luck would have it, we've got one here we go. 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.960 So, Richard, you talk about the treasure Jim Chalmers taking 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.200 at least one page out of your book last year. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.720 So as we're speaking a day out from the budget, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.320 what's the most urgent thing you'd like to see the 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.520 Treasurer address on Tuesday night? And you know, maybe take 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:50.800 another page out of your book. 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.400 Look, I don't mean to reject the premise of your question. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.000 There are so many urgent problems in Australia. Support for 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:03.600 women fleeing domestic violence is urgent, Indigenous health in regional 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.800 areas is urgent. The need to tackle climate change is urgent. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.000 There are lots of things we need to do. So 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.040 for me, what's urgent is for the government to say 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.720 out loud that Australia is one of the richest countries 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.680 in the world, that we live at the richest point 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.880 in world history. And if we want to solve these problems, 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.000 we can. But if we want to solve lots of problems, 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.880 then we're going to have to do some big things differently. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.240 And Australia is one of the lowest tax countries in 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.000 the world. That's a fact. Oe City website makes it clear. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.600 The PINCO lefties at the International Monetary Fund to make 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.160 it clear. Australia is the third largest fossil fuel exporter 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.000 in the world, but we collect more revenue from kids 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.240 are paying their hex debt than we do from the 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.920 gas industry paying petroleum resource for rent tax. We spend 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.400 twelve billion dollars a year subsidizing the fossil fuel industry. 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.000 We should not be subsidizing fossil fuel expansion in twenty 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.800 twenty four. We should be subsidizing better health care, better education, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:08.640 better childcare, the role out of renewable energy. So we've 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.000 got a kind of nineteen seventies budget even though we've 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.640 got the problems of twenty twenty four, and until we 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.240 change that, we'll get kind of stuck with well meaning 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.920 people asking is it more important to invest in health 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.320 or education. I don't know what about both. My favorite 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.240 observation is in Norway they tax their oil industry and 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.600 give university degrees to kids for free. In Australia, we 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.760 subsidize our fossil fuel industry and charge our kids are 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.280 fortune to go to UNI. That's why budgets matter. Budgets 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.840 are about choices, and we need to urgently make big, 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:44.760 better choices. 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.960 So, Richard, I know it's not great to simplify the 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:50.840 cost of living crisis, but I want to ask you 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.840 about the legacy this is going to have on our country. 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.560 So when we do finally exit this, is there a 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.000 risk that if we don't get it right, some people 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.680 are going to live with the consequences for longer than others. 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.160 Absolutely, and that's already happening. We're already seeing this. And 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.200 this is not just brutally unfair to people who were 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.200 unlucky enough to know just finish UNI at this point 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.400 in history. It's brutally unfair to people who've become homeless 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.600 or had to flee their home from domestic violence at 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.720 this point in history. This is the real pain of neoliberalism. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.640 This is the real danger of decades of treating everybody 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.760 as you know, well, if you're poor, it's because you 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.640 made bad choices. Austraya used to be the land of 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.160 the sort of fair go. Now where the land of 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.160 suck it up. You know, it's been decades of talk 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:44.160 and we still haven't increased unemployment benefits. Child poverty in 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.440 Australia is going up. But you know, for those earning 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.520 over two hundred grand strap in lucky you you're about 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.800 to get a four thousand dollars a year tax cut. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:58.120 That's proof that Australia is not making the big structural 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.920 decisions that I think we need to make comma if 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:07.639 we want to solve these kind of problems. And to 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.119 be clear, maybe we don't. Like maybe I'm shagging a 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.119 rock here, Maybe most Australians are happy watching income inequality 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.760 get worse, greenhouse gas emissions go up, and social cohesion declient. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:20.800 Not the kind of country I'd like to live in. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.719 But it is a democracy and we do elect people 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.920 to Parliament to make these decisions for us. And that's 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:28.960 why we have to be careful not to think that 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.800 there's this thing like a cost of living crisis that's 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:38.920 like a cyclone that's buffeting your country. It's entirely imaginary. 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:43.480 For people that own lots of houses and own lots 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:48.040 of shares and earn lots of money, It's never been 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.240 a better time to be really rich. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:55.600 Richard, thanks so much for your time. 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.000 Thank you anytime. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.520 When Richard Sais thinks the government is starting to make 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.760 those bigger changes when it comes to where our tax 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.600 dollars go and what we choose to subsidize, Casey Chambers 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.520 from anglic Care thinks that too, and she's also a 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.400 little more optimistic that they might actually go through with it. 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.640 We'd like to see the government start to and not 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.600 just the government, but the government as leaders of our society, 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.800 start to talk about the level of inequality we're willing 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.119 to have. And I don't think most Australians are willing 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:28.960 to have the level that we have, so we need 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.160 to really work on it. We think that the government 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.400 does have an interest in social cohesion and equality. The 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.159 fact that they went back and remodeled the tax cuts, 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.840 which we're going to be grossly unfair, it is a 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.120 really good sign and it gives us hope and optimism 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.400 that this government does have the spine to do it, 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.560 and that the community has a desire to see that. 0:18:53.800 --> 0:19:13.640 Of course, we'll have to wait and see. 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.520 Also in the news today, Australia's voted yes at the 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.160 UN General Assembly along with one hundred and forty two 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.480 other nations, on a resolution that Palestine is qualified to 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.000 join the UN as a full member. That would give 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.920 the Palestinian delegation more rights and privileges. At the moment, 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.360 Palestinians have an ambassador at the UN with observer status 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.879 as a non recognized state. Any official change to that 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.000 would have to be granted by the fifteen member Security Council, 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.280 where the US holds VETO powers, and the education ministers 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.399 of five states have joined together to call on the 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.959 Albanese government to do more to help them fund public 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.040 schools in tuesday Nights budget. Under the current funding arrangements, 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.119 the ACT is the only place where public schools are 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:01.400 fully funded to the baseline school resourcing standard. I'm Ashlin McGee. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:02.640 This is seven am. 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:03.439 Thanks for listening. 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:04.680 We'll say you again tomorrow.