WEBVTT - Deciding which killers walk free: Jessica Brown Pt. 2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 detective sy aside of life. The average person has never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.080 exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:50.440 Before her brother Eden was murdered, Jessica Brown was already 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.600 fighting for change in the justice system. She already dedicated 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:58.440 her career to helping disadvantage girls, giving them a chance 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.639 to break the cycle of destitution and abuse through mentoring, education, 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.640 and crisis intervention. Then Eden was murdered, and everything she 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.839 thought she understood about violence, loss and justice suddenly became 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.480 very personal. In this episode, she takes us inside her 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.160 fight for change through her work with Sister The Sister 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.520 and Worry a Woman, along with the work she does 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.800 on the Serious Offenders Review Board. But that's not all. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.800 As you know, if you're a regular listener of the podcast, 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.800 Anthony Jones, the man who murdered Eden has been released 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.200 from prison. Here what Jessica has to say about it. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.200 Jessica Brown, Welcome back to part two of I Catch Killers. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.200 Thanks for having me. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.000 Well we got through through part one. I hope it 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:46.360 wasn't too tough. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:48.640 I was a bit emotional, but yeah. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:50.600 I know it's a hard subject matter when we're talking 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.480 about the murder murder of your your brother, But that's okay. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.400 As I said, I think it's remarkable how you processing 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.760 it and the work that you're doing that we're going 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.760 to talk about now. But I suppose when we think 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.600 of your brother, how do you think he'd be looking 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.840 down there this now and what you're doing. 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.360 Then, Yeah, he was so proud of what I was doing. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.200 He was and him and his mate. You know, if 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.320 I was ever in the article or in the newspaper 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.079 or anything like that, he'd cut it out and put 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.360 it up. And so yeah, he's really really proud of 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.480 his big siss. I think now he'd be looking down 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.640 now and being he would love be a bit toughed 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.560 that he is still being talked about, and also that 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.720 I've started my second charity to be able to help 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.520 young young women, you know, to help them turn their 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.720 lives around, so that they don't end up on a 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:42.120 really really negative trajectory and end up having children and 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:46.760 lose them to fostercare system and you know boys. Yeah, 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.280 it's like a revolving door, so which is also helping 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.880 boys and girls, you know, like Aj, he you know 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.679 from his story for those people who've watched the podcast 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.200 would know that he had you know, he was up 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:00.919 against it since from day on. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.120 Well, I think the type of work that you were 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.200 doing before what happened to Eden, and then seeing the 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.600 impact that AJ's actions had on your family and had 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.520 on you, and then realizing that the work that you're 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.600 doing could possibly steer people away. We're finishing off part one. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.960 We're talking about how as a school teacher, and I 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.160 don't know, that just made me feel sad but also 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.080 happy for the kid that you showed a bit of 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.520 interest in at school and turned his life around. And 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.240 now you get discounts at JB. How cool is that? 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:36.920 I know he's a beautiful kid. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.320 Yeah, but okay, you're a school teacher. When did you 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.520 decide to make the big, big move and how did 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:44.040 that occur? 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.440 As I said, I loved I taught out in the 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:51.640 Western City for ten years, so I probably taught Glockenspielt too, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:59.200 some underwhelmed kids. True story. So yeah, I had this 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.480 entrepreneur spark in me that wasn't going away. And for 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:07.120 some reason, my dad was an entrepreneur and he had 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.160 his own travel business for many, many years. So that 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.000 spark was I wanted to do more than teaching. And 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.960 I saw many young kids sort of dropping out of 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.640 school and we wouldn't see them again, and the welfare 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.479 system as well, so I saw gaps. So I decided 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.839 to start Sister and Sister, where we match at risk 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.960 teenage girls with mentors and we help them and support 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.640 them through mentorship but also education. And so we would 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.839 do school not school camps, but they were camps and 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.279 it was a year long program and we would give 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.719 them these wonderful women who were there to support them, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.279 to guide them, to be their cheerleader, and to give guidance. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.480 Many of the young women that we worked with didn't 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.760 have there were identified as not having a strong female 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.039 role model in their lives, some in jail. 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.960 As we mentioned, how did you how did you find 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.479 the kids that you wanted to get on the program? 0:04:58.560 --> 0:04:59.480 So docks and facts. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.800 Okay, so you literally out of the education system and 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.120 starting this business. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.880 Yeah yeah, so it was a full Yeah. They were 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:14.080 hardcore kids, especially on camp. Lots of fun stories. What 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.960 ages thirteen to eighteen? I thought I'd stick with the 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.000 ages that I knew, which was high school. Yeah, age. Yeah. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.320 It give us examples a game without identifying the kid, 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.640 but the examples where you look back and think, yeah, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.440 we worked, we made the difference. 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:30.920 Oh, there's so many. What they would do is they 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:32.760 would come to us at the very beginning of camp. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.359 We'd have four day camps and they would literally be 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.080 walking in and none of them knew each other, or 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.440 some did, and they'd be like, all right, who's going 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.200 to be in my crew, Who's who don't want, I 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.839 don't like, and who's going to give me grief? And 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.359 of course you got them all in cabins together, and 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.760 they would the first day they'd be a bit, you know, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.800 testing us out, and then the second second day they 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.600 would learn to because they didn't trust anyone. They're like, 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.000 why you I keep saying to me, why are you 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.440 being so nice to me? Because they thought you had 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.960 some sort of ulterior motive. A lot of them have 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.520 groomed a lot of them. You know, bedtime's not safe, 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.920 so nighttime duty, which I always do. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.799 I've heard a lot of people who have been victims 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.719 of childhood sexual abuse and see the same thing. Why 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.119 anyone that's nice to me is trying to take something 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:20.920 from me? And that's what they used to I know, 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.360 that's a horrible thing that's implanted in their mind by 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.240 these predators, and. 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.240 That will always stick to me. And then once they realized, 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.760 you know, by day three, that we're actually literally there 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.120 is no ulterior motive, that we're literally there to support. 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.600 And they're used to having caseworkers as well, which and 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:44.440 when they find out that their mentors of volunteers, they're like, oh, okay. 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.159 Okay, and what type of people were volunteering to be 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:48.640 mentors and role models. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.000 Most of the corporate women, so corporate women who may 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:54.520 may not have had their own children, who didn't feel 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.720 like they were had that connection to community. I mean 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:00.920 a lot of them were mums as well, but from 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.719 corporate world where they felt like, oh, you know, cutthroat 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.839 had a lot of lawyers and bankers and things like 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.240 that where they felt, you know, I'm not really contributing 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:09.120 to the community. 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.880 Yeah, I can understand the attraction to helping out like that. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.680 A very competent women as well. We obviously gave them 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.680 extensive training, you know, so that they were equipped because 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.240 they're pretty hardcore kids. But also again they would buck 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:28.120 up and you know, I had them in camps, you know, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.960 setting curtains on fire, and I learned what huffing was 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.320 for the first time. I had no idea what huffing was. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.400 Like the whole room could have died because they all 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.560 decided to huff. You know that they're for anyone who 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.160 doesn't know what huffing is, it's breathing in asphyxiating toxins 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:45.520 from an aerosol can. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:46.360 Yeah. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.760 So they definitely kept us on our toes. 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.680 And what was the reward and punishments? Like how did 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.000 you manage that? Like, I know, yeah, I'm thinking if 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.520 it's a boys camp, the men be staying the hearing 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.320 for it without laying a hand on them. But the threat, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.280 but with girls can be harder because girls sometimes they 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:08.120 don't respond to the threat of violence, so they just 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.880 throw it, throw it back at you. So what how 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.680 did you control them? 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.640 I think just having boundaries, really really strong boundaries for 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.880 them and just again you know that your behavior is 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.160 not you not happy with your behavior, pulling them aside 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.520 and just knowing that they are here, they're you know, 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.520 the severe trauma and stuff like that, and so the 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.120 mentors stepped in and you know, were there to support 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:33.920 and guide them. But yeah, we had some we had 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.880 some fun times. We had a great team that I 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.240 worked with and we would would call it seamless, you 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.559 know when there was everything was going to ship. Yeah, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.960 that's seamless. I just had this wonderful team. You know 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.000 a lot of them who worked in frontline sees and 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.440 Ambulance Australia and so I had some really tough team 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.160 leaders who so each of each of them had the 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.160 girls that we had had a mentor and then they 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.800 then the mental a team leader and these were pretty 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:03.920 one from the army as well. So we had some 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.400 pretty tough Yeah. So I think it. 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:06.760 Was just. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.480 Keeping them busy. It was really really important to keep 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:16.160 them busy so that they couldn't you know escape, yeah, literally, yeah, 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.200 we did have one try once, but the campside where 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.720 we were out is quite remote, so it wasn't really 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:22.720 far for them to go. 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.640 What sort of changes did you see in the girls 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.080 during these programs? 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:33.640 It was transformational by the end of day four really yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.079 where they just we just immersed them in fun. We 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.439 would do you know, a whole lot of skit night, 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.040 like the teams would do dance routines like things like that. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.559 But you know, we had a corporate challenge that came 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.080 out and did activities with them, and then we would 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:53.520 have some motivational speakers, but ones that had had lived experience, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.400 who've turned their lives around. And so by the end 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.320 of the four days, they just love It's like a 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.120 love fest where they all just love each other, that 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.400 they love their mentors and they're really really excited for 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:03.440 the twelve months ahead. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.839 Okay, so the four days is okay, this is what 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.960 so offer. Let them have a taste, and then you've 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.360 got the twelve twelve month program continues on what sort 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.200 of things do you do with them. Maybe that twelve month. 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:22.160 Period cyber Safety Body Image consent a lot of setting 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.120 goals and achieving them. So we'd get a lot of 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.520 Olympians out who would talk about goals and things like 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.480 that to motivate them. So but a lot of keeping 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.320 them busy. But we had just an amazing, amazing response 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:35.520 from that program. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.880 And where did you take the kids from after the 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.200 four days and the ongoing stuff? Where were the. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.080 Kids we would have We would have activities, so we 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.680 do their educational part in the morning, and then we'd 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.960 do something like in the afternoon like rock climbing or 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.000 Luna parkles, you know, something to get them there. Look, 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.400 that was the lure to get them there to do 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.679 something fun because there's a lot of the young women 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.280 just didn't have you know, a lot of them had 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.319 not even been over the Harbor Bridge. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:09.080 Before and that was their home environments just didn't provide 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:10.800 the things that you were providing. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.200 So at the end of camp we would get a 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:18.960 lot of disclosures. So obviously, being mandatory reporters, we have 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.880 to have to report that. So a lot of as 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.040 I said, most of the girls came from dogs and facts. 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:26.840 But then there was some. I had one who was 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.480 part of and her sister had gone through the program. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.360 One of fourteen children all from mum and dad, same 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.440 mum and dad, and I had to get them all removed, 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.080 like it was just the whole whole family removed. So 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.120 that didn't go well because she had disclosed what was 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.320 going on. So married. I mean, we had some really 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.720 loving parents, but we had young cares as well, so 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.440 young some young women who were caring for their parents 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:55.720 who had mental illness. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.640 See, this is a side of life unless the impacts 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.440 on you personally, you don't even think about, Like there 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.520 would be kids out there looking after their parents, whether 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:10.120 it's drug dependency, alcohol or mental health. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.960 Yeah, or looking after siblings as well. Once where they 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.280 just mum's not quite with it and it's been on 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.920 a vender and is now asleep for three days, you know, 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.200 and they're going through cupboards trying to find food. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.400 And it is quite often and I don't know what's 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.520 in our makeup the boys compared to the girls, but 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.000 these quite often the girls that take up that responsibility, 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:33.320 isn't it. 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.120 Yeah? Absolutely, But yeah, the mentors played a really they 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.760 play a really integral part in it. Our mentors are 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:40.479 just incredible. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:45.839 When they finish the program, do they get any acknowledgments 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.920 or is there any ongoing communications or contacts that you 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:49.480 have with them? 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.360 So ninety percent of in terms of sisted a sister, 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.280 ninety percent of our mentors continue to support them beyond 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.719 the program. And that was a longitudinal study that we 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:58.800 did after ten years. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.240 Yeah, yeah, okay, Well that says something, doesn't it. Yeah, 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.800 everyone that connections here, that's strong. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.760 Yeah, I'm on Facebook with half of them as well, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:11.280 like those hundreds of them, So. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.640 Yeah, I get a sense of how busy you are. 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.040 That would be part of it. So how many young 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:20.360 girls have gone through the program? 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.800 Sister to Sister was about three hundred that went through 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.080 because we don't have small groups of twenty five, so 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.439 there'd be twenty five mentors, twenty five mantees and then 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.360 a team of sort of ten so that was enough 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.199 for a camp to manage because they were tough cases. 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.959 And then we'd have sykes. But that was Sydney and 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.040 Victoria right that we ran it. We ran it out 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.480 in Warriby area in western Sydney where there was a 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:50.960 lot of need. So yes, we've done Sydney, Victoria. 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.320 And with that many girls going through over that long period. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.240 Have you seen the success from it? And the success 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:58.439 give us a couple of success to what. 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:03.160 The best thing? They become great mothers. You can see 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.240 them that they've become great mothers and gone on to 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:12.040 university and or you know, got jobs, you know, didn't 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.960 end up jail. Yeah, so there's lots of varying degrees, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.080 but the thing that touches my heart is that they've 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:21.440 gone on to be very good mothers. 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.760 And that's important because you like a good mother, a 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.360 good father as well, we should should say, but like 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.720 a good mother can be so grounding for the family. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.600 We do a lot around you know, relationships, what are 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.800 the red flags of a bad relationship good relationship? And 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.560 that's kind of carried on to the Warrior women as well. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.440 It's just more of a maturer age group. 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.600 So what was the evolution to warrior women. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.480 After seventeen years? It was spurred on by Eden's death. 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.520 After seventeen years, I was running that I wanted to 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.160 do obviously that entrepreneurial spark, but I had so many 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.280 girls coming into the office. Used to have an office 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.760 up here on Elizabeth Street for seventeen years, and the girls, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.200 once they got to eighteen, would come in and they'd 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.600 want help with stuff, and they'd come unannounced all the time. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:15.280 Can you help me with a tax piled? Now? 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:16.200 Can you help me with this? 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.480 I've just been you know, foster care ended. I've just 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.840 turned eighteen. So I always knew that gap was there, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.360 But then I did a bit of research and it 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.960 is one of the most unserved gaps apart from vulnerability 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.320 of older women at fifty five becoming close to being homeless, 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.480 but one of the most underserved gaps. And so I 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.920 obviously knew that I knew how to run a mentor, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.600 so started an all mature mentoring program. 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.560 So this is where they might be in home care, 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.200 foster care or whatever. They turn eight And you said, 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.960 it's gone the twenty twenty one now, But okay, we've 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.400 done all weekend for you. You've got all your life skills now, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.920 regardless of what your life skills are, and we turf 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.880 you out and then they end up the homeless or 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:05.200 dig something, all in prison invariably. So okay, so you 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.120 worried a woman, just how do you fund these programs? 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:16.200 A lot of writing grants and doing fundraising events and 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:17.680 things like that, so that I spent a lot of 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:18.280 time doing that. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.280 I would imagine you'd have to, but I would hope 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.400 with the type of program that the money people could 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.720 see the sense in them and we come back down 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.840 to monetary considerations. How much it is to keep these 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.600 kids in custody exactly compared to what you're doing. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.360 Yeah, So yeah, we based the program on the self 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.080 determination theory, which is really so I do a lot 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.600 of evidence research around it, and so we do the 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.120 connection to community, which is something that they're missing. And 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.720 then all the life skills the way I describe it, 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.200 every skill that I wish I learned when I left 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.440 home at eighteen, and then and then mental health support. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.840 So we do all three of those, and we have 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.960 a real strong focus on financial literacy because one of 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.400 the fastest growing cohorts in Australia is women fifty five 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.640 who you know, maybe going through divorce and becoming close 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.640 to homelessness. So we've got a real housing crisis. As 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.000 you know, you do for these women and what I 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:23.960 don't want them to do is to become one of 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:24.800 those statistics. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.440 So you're trying to educate them financial independence. 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.440 And I mean if they know how to manage them. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.760 A lot of them may come to us and say, 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.280 oh I let someone else manage that. No, and we 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.600 teach them about the red flags of financial abuse. It 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.119 is a bit hard sometimes to get them excited about 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.920 tax and super because yeah, let's face it, I don't 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:47.160 get excited about that either. 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.320 No one likes likes tax and they're super. Well, it's 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.800 not until you get older. Will you think they were 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.720 right when they told you to sign those forms? Yeah? Exactly. Yeah. 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.240 So yeah, so we're trying to teach them all the 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.400 live skills to be able to stand on their own 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.120 two feet. But the number one thing, and going back 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.479 to what you said before, is education or employment. So 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.919 we're very very much around, you know, helping them get 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:18.119 entry level. We've partnered with Laureal Care Stars, so we 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.719 have really strong affiliations with Westpac who do a lot 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.640 of our financial literacy sessions as well, so really trying 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.000 to partner with them and Optics as well. The girls 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.200 get each of them get a twelve month subscription free 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:35.480 for their phone so that they can keep connected with 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:39.000 their mentors because you know, sometimes they're alway, I'm out 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.000 of credit and blah blah blah. 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:48.080 Yes I know the type. But yeah, education, employment, and 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.119 to me it's a lot about self esteem too. Yeah, 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.280 and that's what education can bring. And we don't all 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.760 have to be university graduates, but just have a level 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:04.639 of education that you feel comfortable in conversing and doing 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:05.840 all the things that you need to do. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.560 We've got one young woman who grew up in out 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:14.600 of home care and an Indigenous girl, beautiful girl nominated 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.159 by her school teacher and who's not nominated quite a 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.720 few the young ones to our program, and she is 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.719 now studying criminology wow Canberra University and we got her 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:30.480 a scholarship to university. How fantastics are So that's just one, 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.240 just one of the menu. Because they are older, we've 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.200 got more of a success rate. Like with the sister 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.520 and sister it was more keeping them on on the track, 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.800 keeping them at school, whereas now it's you know, what 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.600 are you doing for a job, because you know, if 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.600 they do find themselves in situations of coercive control or 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.000 financial abuse or end up having to leave a situation 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.840 with children that they know, they've got that confidence in 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.280 themselves that they can hold down a job, they've got 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.320 an education and you know, be able to carry themselves. 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.639 I hate saying that. You see the lot where women 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.199 are trapped for a variety of reasons in relationships or 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.119 in circumstances that they haven't got the confidence or the 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.919 financial backing to actually step away and look after him, 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.159 look after themselves and step away from something that's a 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:25.439 bit toxic. So all all good stuff. How how do 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.920 you identify the people for warrior women? 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.840 So there a lot of self nomination. By the way, 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:36.919 thank you. I I've got a tattoo of it on 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:43.480 my leg just recently. So that's commitment, right, full commitment 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.240 will kill me? Said no tattoos, eating had a lot 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.480 of tattoos, said don't you dare get one? So that 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:52.159 I've just the cats out of the bag now. 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:59.119 So warrior women, okay, So yeah, casework is still a 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.720 lot of self nominated Or we have a partnership now 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.680 with the University of Western Sydney, and so there's young 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.520 women who who are at risk of falling dropping out 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:12.160