WEBVTT - Defence spending in the spotlight

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<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm kristin amiot.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday, March sixth, twenty twenty five. Brisbane residents will

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<v Speaker 1>bear the branch of cyclone Alfred's one hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 1>five kilometer per hour winds, rain and flooding on Friday,

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<v Speaker 1>when the storm is expected to lash the Queensland capital

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<v Speaker 1>for twelve hours. For all the latest on the Category

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<v Speaker 1>two storm, visit the Australian dot com dot AU. Defense

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<v Speaker 1>Minister Richard Miles says he's absolutely confident US President Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump will follow through on his support of the historic

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<v Speaker 1>August Defense Pact between Australia, the United States and the

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<v Speaker 1>United Kingdom. Bard South Australian Premier Peter Malanowskis says questions

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<v Speaker 1>about the White House's commitment are starting to wear thin.

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<v Speaker 1>In a wide ranging conversation at the Defending Australia conference

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<v Speaker 1>in Adelaide on Wednesday, co hosted by The Australian and

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<v Speaker 1>our colleagues The Advertiser, the Defense Minister fielded questions about

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<v Speaker 1>aucust defense spending and those warships of the Australian coast.

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<v Speaker 1>In today's episode we're bringing you parts of that fascinating

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<v Speaker 1>conversation with Richard Miles and Shadow Minister for Defense Andrew Hasty.

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<v Speaker 2>Minister is going to ask do you trust Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes for his support for aucas.

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<v Speaker 1>That's The Australian's chief international correspondent Cameron Stewart chatting with

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<v Speaker 1>Defense Minister Richard Miles in Adelaide on Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 3>I do, and I actually have a sense of confidence

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<v Speaker 3>about where we can take the alliance under the Trump

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<v Speaker 3>administration and the alignment of effort in terms of the

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<v Speaker 3>focus that we're bringing to peer in terms of our

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<v Speaker 3>own security, but what the United States is doing in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of its focus on the hopes.

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<v Speaker 1>South Australian Premier Peter malinowskis, who'd broken ground on a

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<v Speaker 1>new shipbuilding academy that'll produce the graduates who'll build August

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<v Speaker 1>submarines earlier on Wednesday, alongside the Defense Minister, jumped in,

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<v Speaker 1>can I ask a question?

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<v Speaker 4>I was thinking about this today after our press conference.

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<v Speaker 5>Every single time Richard or I have stood up announcing

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<v Speaker 5>some progress milestone in terms of UCUS or any other

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<v Speaker 5>time on radio and South Australia, an event has occurred

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<v Speaker 5>where aucust becomes a tom of conversation.

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<v Speaker 4>I get asked that question.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm not too sure what more needs to be done

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<v Speaker 5>before those questions stop. All three countries have gone through

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<v Speaker 5>a change in administration or government from one political party

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<v Speaker 5>to the other, and not one word has been added

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<v Speaker 5>by any Prime minister, any defense minister, or a defense secretary,

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<v Speaker 5>or the US president of either political persuasion that has

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<v Speaker 5>actually said anything on the record that would suggest that

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<v Speaker 5>ORCUS is in.

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<v Speaker 4>An ongoing commitment.

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<v Speaker 5>And yet, while I can understand there's a desire to

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<v Speaker 5>ask the question given that things can change quickly, evidently,

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<v Speaker 5>nonetheless there's been no suggestion that this is going to

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<v Speaker 5>be an issue.

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<v Speaker 4>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Premier Kolby today spoke about the fact that he thought

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<v Speaker 2>it was great to sell Virginia class submarines to Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>but he said if the production of those submarines is

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<v Speaker 2>not fast enough, that might be a problem for the US.

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<v Speaker 2>That comes to a central question to trust in future

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<v Speaker 2>administrations to actually sell those submarines if their Virginia roll

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<v Speaker 2>out is not fast enough.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I can understand those comments, but in a sense, let's

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<v Speaker 3>think that through it is really I think the beauty

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<v Speaker 3>of the Optimal Pathway that we announced in March of

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<v Speaker 3>twenty three, that there really is something in it for

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<v Speaker 3>all three countries. We are playing a very significant role

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<v Speaker 3>now in increasing the production rate and the sustainment rate

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<v Speaker 3>of Virginia class submarines in America. For America, that's something

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<v Speaker 3>that they acknowledge. That is something which is utterly different

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<v Speaker 3>to any other relationship they have with literally any other

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<v Speaker 3>country when it comes to their bilateral defense relationships. The

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<v Speaker 3>strategic benefit to the United States of ORCUS is really

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<v Speaker 3>understood by the United States. And if the production rates

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<v Speaker 3>don't increase in relation to Virginia's, as both Pete and

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<v Speaker 3>I were saying to each other, there's a whole lot

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<v Speaker 3>of issues that America faces in that moment, But what

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<v Speaker 3>ORCUS is about is ensuring that we jointly succeed on

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<v Speaker 3>that effort. It is in Australia's interest that America has

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<v Speaker 3>a greater availability of Virginia class submarines. We need America

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<v Speaker 3>to be the most capable they can be, and America

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<v Speaker 3>needs us to be the most capable we can be.

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<v Speaker 3>And they're fundamentally I think you use the word trust,

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<v Speaker 3>trust is actually at the heart of the relationship. And

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<v Speaker 3>to Pelee's point, I mean we do keep getting asked

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<v Speaker 3>those questions. I get that we will get those questions.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a lot of money, it goes over a

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<v Speaker 3>long period of time. But what I'm really confident about

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<v Speaker 3>is we'll answer those questions.

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<v Speaker 4>That means something.

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<v Speaker 3>What means much more is the actions that we put

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<v Speaker 3>into place, and that is what's occurring.

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<v Speaker 1>In the hours before his defense Minister sat down to

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<v Speaker 1>chat with cam Stewart, Anthony Albanizi was moving to reassure Australians.

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<v Speaker 1>The Royal Australian Navy was keeping close tabs on a

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<v Speaker 1>flotilla of Chinese warships currently off the coast of Wa.

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<v Speaker 5>The Chinese vessels are currently, as of a very short

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<v Speaker 5>while ago, five.

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<v Speaker 2>Hundred and ninety three kilometers southwest of Adelaide.

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<v Speaker 1>The trio of ships entered international waters between Australia and

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<v Speaker 1>New Zealand on Friday, where they conducted a series of

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<v Speaker 1>live fire exercises that sent air traffic control into disarray.

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<v Speaker 6>It, of course, last Friday, caused chaos in the air

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<v Speaker 6>between New Zealand and Australia, forcing the diversion of forty

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<v Speaker 6>nine flights when it began a live fire exercise.

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<v Speaker 1>The Chinese vessels have been circumnavigating Australia in the day since,

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<v Speaker 1>shadowed by Australian Navy ships.

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<v Speaker 7>In seas never previously sailed by the Chinese Navy. The

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<v Speaker 7>warships are being shadowed by HMAS Stewart, a New Zealand

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<v Speaker 7>frigate to Kaha. The federal government believes China not only

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<v Speaker 7>wants to show its military reach, but normalize its presence

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<v Speaker 7>in the region.

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<v Speaker 1>The appearance of the ships called the readiness of Australia's

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<v Speaker 1>defense force into question and prompted a diplomatic war of words,

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<v Speaker 1>with leaders from Australia and New Zealand claiming China should

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<v Speaker 1>have given both nations a heads up before commencing the exercise.

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<v Speaker 1>In Adelaide on Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 4>It was the question on everybody's lips, how often have

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<v Speaker 4>we seen that before?

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<v Speaker 3>We've seen Chinese warships in the vicinity of Australia before.

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<v Speaker 3>I would describe it as an unusual event. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>a completely unprecedented event, though. When it became clear that

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<v Speaker 3>a task group was coming to Australia, we in an

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<v Speaker 3>unprecedented way made a decision and it was very much

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<v Speaker 3>a direction of mine to make sure that we were

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<v Speaker 3>surveiling this to the greatest possible extent. We did that,

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<v Speaker 3>and I did that because it appeared to me at

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<v Speaker 3>the outset that there was the prospect of this Task

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<v Speaker 3>Group being in the vicinity of Australia for some time.

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<v Speaker 3>We needed to do two things, which is what we

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<v Speaker 3>have done. The first was to ensure that the Task

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<v Speaker 3>Group complied with international law at all times, and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>advised that they have and that is important to understand.

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<v Speaker 3>And secondly, to get a clear understanding of what the

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<v Speaker 3>Task Group is trying to achieve in its mission by

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<v Speaker 3>looking at exactly where it goes, it's configurations, the training

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<v Speaker 3>and the activities that it's undertaken. And we've had a

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<v Speaker 3>close eye on all of that, which of course is

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<v Speaker 3>our right. I'd make this point as well, though international

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<v Speaker 3>law has to be our touchstone here. It has to

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<v Speaker 3>be our touchstone because there is much more often Australian

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<v Speaker 3>Navy ships in the vicinity of China than there are

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<v Speaker 3>Chinese Navy ships in the vicinity of it. We do

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<v Speaker 3>live firing exercises that we do live firing exercises on

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<v Speaker 3>the high seas, which is what China did. But we

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<v Speaker 3>also were not happy about the notice that was given

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<v Speaker 3>by the Chinese Navy in that particular event, and we

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<v Speaker 3>made it our concerns known to China, both in Canberra

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<v Speaker 3>and Beijing and at the level of our foreign ministers.

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<v Speaker 3>But I come back to the point. We are much

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<v Speaker 3>more present in the vicinity of China than China is

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<v Speaker 3>in the vicinity of Austina, and that's not gratuitous. That's

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<v Speaker 3>for a reason because that's where our trading routes are

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<v Speaker 3>and it's really important that we are in a position

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<v Speaker 3>to continue to assert freedm of navigation in and around

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<v Speaker 3>our trading routes.

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<v Speaker 4>For that to occur.

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<v Speaker 3>To continue, international law has to be our touchstone and

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<v Speaker 3>our bed rock. We're taking this very seriously. We've surveilled

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<v Speaker 3>this in a way that was not done previously under

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<v Speaker 3>the former government. But equally, we're not breathlessly trying to

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<v Speaker 3>hand this up either. And it's really important that we

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<v Speaker 3>observe the fact that they have been maintaining their obligations

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<v Speaker 3>in respect of the international law, and that's relevant in

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<v Speaker 3>the context of what we seek to do in the

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<v Speaker 3>proximity of China.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's fair enough.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, but you've seen what they were doing, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think you said a couple of days ago, you're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to find out a bit more about exactly what they

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<v Speaker 2>were doing. But is it cricket? Are they trying to

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<v Speaker 2>send a message? Is this just bogs navy drills?

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<v Speaker 4>Look, I'm not saying that.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it is really important to conduct this surveillance

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<v Speaker 3>to properly understand exactly what they were doing, what they

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<v Speaker 3>were practicing, and I think from there to understand what message,

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<v Speaker 3>if any, is being sent to us. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 3>going to leap into that and speculate about that before

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<v Speaker 3>we get the proper assessments coming through in respect of

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<v Speaker 3>what we have observed, not for a moment, And I

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to be seen in suggesting that this is standard.

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<v Speaker 3>That is not my position. It is the case that

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<v Speaker 3>they've complied with international law. We're not going to fall

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<v Speaker 3>into the trap of breathlessly complaining about activities which are

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<v Speaker 3>in compliance with international law, which would lead us to

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<v Speaker 3>being in a compromised position in terms of what we

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<v Speaker 3>seek to do within the vicinity of China. That said,

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<v Speaker 3>we are clearly going to observe this really carefully, which

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<v Speaker 3>we have been doing to understand exactly what's going on

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<v Speaker 3>and to understand exactly what was being practiced and what

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<v Speaker 3>messages are being sent. And I'm not all sanguine about

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<v Speaker 3>all that.

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<v Speaker 1>In a surprise statement on Tuesday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanizi

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<v Speaker 1>said he's open to sending Australian troops to Ukraine in

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<v Speaker 1>a peacekeeping capacity. It followed a fiery White House exchange

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<v Speaker 1>between Ukrainian President Voladimir Zelenski and US Vice President jd

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<v Speaker 1>Vance that flipped everyone's understanding of the Russia Ukraine War

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<v Speaker 1>on its head.

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<v Speaker 4>What kind of diplomacy? Ggus became aboved.

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<v Speaker 7>What do you mean?

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<v Speaker 8>I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to

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<v Speaker 8>end the destruction of your country as but President, mister president,

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<v Speaker 8>with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come

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<v Speaker 8>to the Oval Office to try to litigate this in

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<v Speaker 8>front of the American.

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<v Speaker 1>Media right now, you guys in Adelaide on Wednesday, Defense

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<v Speaker 1>Minister Richard Miles said, comparing Australia's reluctance to send boats

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<v Speaker 1>to the Red Sea during a period of heightened attacks

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<v Speaker 1>on commercial shipping vessels in late twenty twenty three. Isn't

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<v Speaker 1>exactly comparing apples with apples.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we need to be clear about exactly what

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<v Speaker 3>America asked. We are folk and it is part of

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<v Speaker 3>what comes out of the Defense Strategic Review and is

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<v Speaker 3>now in the national defense strategy. We are very much

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<v Speaker 3>focused on the Indo Pacific. We are focused on our

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<v Speaker 3>strategic task, and that is to build a defense force

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<v Speaker 3>which can resist coercion from any potential adversary. Now we

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<v Speaker 3>see that what is happening in Ukraine is relevant to that.

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<v Speaker 3>It's relevant to that because the global rules based order

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<v Speaker 3>that is so central to our national interests as an

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<v Speaker 3>island trading nation where there's a physical manifestation and that's

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<v Speaker 3>our sea lines of communication, freedom navigation goes directly to

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<v Speaker 3>our national prosperity where all of that is under pressure

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<v Speaker 3>in our region and all of that is on trial

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<v Speaker 3>in Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 4>Now.

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<v Speaker 3>We have been supporting Ukraine from the get go and

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<v Speaker 3>we will continue to support Ukraine. Right now, there are

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<v Speaker 3>Australian personnel in Britain who are involved in the training

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<v Speaker 3>of new recruits to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. So we

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<v Speaker 3>actually have Australian men and women committed right now. The

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<v Speaker 3>only point we've made is that as we listen to

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<v Speaker 3>our partners, which over the last three years has been

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<v Speaker 3>the United States, but our partners in Europe, including the

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<v Speaker 3>United Kingdom, including Ukraine itself, when they have asked for support,

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<v Speaker 3>we have considered that and worked out how we can

0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:18.800
<v Speaker 3>do it. And if there is a request of this kind,

0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.160
<v Speaker 3>we'll do the same. We'll consider it and work out

0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:22.240
<v Speaker 3>if we can make a contribution.

0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 2>And on that line, if the US military aid to

0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Ukraine continues to be frozen, would that be a reason

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.880
<v Speaker 2>for Australia to consider an increase of military aid to Ukraine.

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.679
<v Speaker 3>I think the fundamental answer here is we will continue

0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 3>to support Ukraine for as long as it takes for

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.240
<v Speaker 3>Ukraine to resolve this conflict on its terms. And again,

0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.240
<v Speaker 3>it's an understandable question that's been consistently asked of me

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.600
<v Speaker 3>during the last three years, and we have consistently been

0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.200
<v Speaker 3>announcing packages of support for Ukraine. Will continue to go

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.480
<v Speaker 3>down this path, and as requests are made of us

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.200
<v Speaker 3>by Ukraine itself, by our partners who are supporting Ukraine,

0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.640
<v Speaker 3>will consider them.

0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Coming up, Shadow Minister for Defense Andrew Hasty sits down

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 1>with The Australian's Foreign Affairs and Defense correspondent Ben Packham

0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.040
<v Speaker 1>on Wednesday. Donald Trump's pick for a top job at

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.119
<v Speaker 1>the US Department of Defense put the pressure on Australia

0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:33.720
<v Speaker 1>to ratchet up defense spending. Elbridge Colby noted Australia is

0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.680
<v Speaker 1>currently well below the three percent level of GDP advocated

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:42.680
<v Speaker 1>for by NATO, despite our relative proximity to China. Defense

0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Minister Richard Miles said Labor is, if re elected, willing

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.920
<v Speaker 1>to engage with the US on defense spending.

0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 3>Firstly, we have increased defense spending, as you said, Cam,

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.760
<v Speaker 3>under our government. It's an additional fifty billion dollars over

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.360
<v Speaker 3>the decade, which is now actually in the budget. And

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.120
<v Speaker 3>to contextualize, that's the big increase in defense spending in

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:06.559
<v Speaker 3>our peacetime history. So I understand very much the position

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.320
<v Speaker 3>that America is taking. I think it is completely reasonable

0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.720
<v Speaker 3>that America is asking its friends and allies around.

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 4>The world to do more. We're totally willing.

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 3>To engage in that conversation with the United States, which

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:18.400
<v Speaker 3>we've already started.

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Males opposition counterpart Andrew Hasty told Ben Packham the coalition

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>will pony up if they're elected.

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.640
<v Speaker 9>Look, we've already indicated very publicly that we will increase

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 9>defense expenditure. We gave a hint of that over the

0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.720
<v Speaker 9>weekend with the additional three billion dollars committed towards the

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 9>acquisition of the fourth squadron of F thirty five's but

0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 9>will announce our full costings and our budgetary plan in

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 9>Duke Horse closer to the election.

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 10>A whole one percent. That's quite a big leap. Where

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 10>does the money come from? Do you think to get

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 10>the defense budget up to that sort of a level.

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 9>That's a good question, and I'm sure the Deputy Prime

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 9>minister's working that through as well, because it's a message

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 9>to Australia from Bridge Colby, who's going to take a

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.120
<v Speaker 9>very central part in the Trump administration.

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.360
<v Speaker 4>So we've got our plan. We're going to.

0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.320
<v Speaker 9>Announce that in due course and you won't be getting

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 9>a scoop here, Ben, Sorry to say.

0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.440
<v Speaker 10>The personnel crisis the defense is facing, it's one of

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 10>the biggest challenges facing the ADF and it could seriously

0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.800
<v Speaker 10>limit our capability ambitions. This isn't a new thing. It

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 10>was a problem under the former government too. What would

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.840
<v Speaker 10>the Coalition do differently to get more Australians into uniform.

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 10>Is it about offering more money, lowering standards? What's the plan?

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 4>I think there's a range of things.

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.960
<v Speaker 9>We are having a recruiting crisis and last year ninety

0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 9>percent of ADF applicants withdrew their application from defense. I

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.400
<v Speaker 9>think we need to challenge this generation of Australians to

0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.520
<v Speaker 9>service fairly old school values of serving your country, defending

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.840
<v Speaker 9>your country, being part of this great Anzac tradition which

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:52.880
<v Speaker 9>has been handed down to us.

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 4>I think that's really important.

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.600
<v Speaker 9>And the point I'm making is political leadership matters here

0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 9>and if we're not getting a signal from the government

0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 9>that service in the is important. It's a really great

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.000
<v Speaker 9>opportunity to grow as a person, and of course there

0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 9>are benefits as well. But whenever he ad is about

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.640
<v Speaker 9>self actualization rather than service, if it's not a challenge

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.400
<v Speaker 9>given to these young people, they're not going to take

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 9>it up. I also think there's big problems within recruiting itself.

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 9>Administrative bungles, people being basically eliminated because of previous medical records,

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 9>which I think are quite trivial. So there's a risk

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 9>aversion within the actual contractors who run recruiting, and I

0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 9>think we should have more uniforms against that problem, just

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.840
<v Speaker 9>like the Marine Corps do. They put their best officers

0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.880
<v Speaker 9>and they're best enlisted against the problem. They give them

0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 9>targets and it's a part of progression for them in

0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:37.280
<v Speaker 9>their careers.

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.040
<v Speaker 10>You've been quite direct in your attacks on Anthony Albanezi

0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.920
<v Speaker 10>and Richard Miles, accusing them of weak leadership. You said

0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 10>it recently in relation to the Chinese warships. How do

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 10>you think the government has been weak and what would

0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 10>do you do differently on defense?

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 9>I think the Prime Minister failed to stand up for

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.160
<v Speaker 9>the national interest and he failed to insist on mutual respect. Now,

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 9>the Deputy Prime Minister said that we often do patrols

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 9>up in waters that are contested under international law as

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 9>part of multilateral formations or groupings, and my understanding is

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.040
<v Speaker 9>whenever we've done live fire in that context, it's always

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.200
<v Speaker 9>been deconflicted, controlled and as part of a wider coalition.

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 9>For example, went not off the coast of China, disrupting

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 9>their commercial flight path, and so the issue was that

0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.720
<v Speaker 9>we didn't get notice and it disrupted our commercial flight path,

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.359
<v Speaker 9>and I think the message is quite clear from the

0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 9>Chinese government. They're now a global power with a bluewater navy.

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.719
<v Speaker 9>They're projecting deep into our waters. And this happened at

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 9>the same time, of course, that Donald Trump was resetting

0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.840
<v Speaker 9>relationships in Europe with NATO, and I think it was

0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 9>a test for US. There's a reason why they sailed

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 9>past the Philippines through the Arafuracy, the coral Seed, down

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.640
<v Speaker 9>past Sydney, and they've circumnavigated the country as well.

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:53.360
<v Speaker 4>So I think there's a.

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.399
<v Speaker 9>Message there, and I think the average person on the

0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.920
<v Speaker 9>street with a PhD in Life got the message pretty

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:00.520
<v Speaker 9>and clear.

0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 10>Is it strange to you that Anthony ALBINIZI would be

0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.520
<v Speaker 10>open to sending troops to Ukraine but not Peter Dutton.

0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.639
<v Speaker 10>Why shouldn't we back our support for Kiev with boots

0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 10>on the ground.

0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 9>Look, I think there's been no formal request as I

0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.960
<v Speaker 9>understand it, and this would be a decision for the

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 9>Prime Minister and the National Security Committee of Cabinet, and

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.640
<v Speaker 9>so there's a lot to play out yet in the negotiations,

0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.560
<v Speaker 9>which reached an inflection point on the weekend in the

0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 9>White House. And so I think this is a decision

0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.440
<v Speaker 9>for a government of the day when a request comes forward.

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.639
<v Speaker 4>That's not ruling it in or ruling it out. But

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.160
<v Speaker 4>I just don't think we should rush. I just don't

0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 4>think we should rush to.

0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.200
<v Speaker 9>Commit young Australians to a conflict without a request. And

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.280
<v Speaker 9>so I think Peter and I are very closely aligned

0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 9>on this.

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:45.520
<v Speaker 4>On Orcus.

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:51.200
<v Speaker 10>We've seen Donald Trump cozy up to Russia, call Vladimir

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.760
<v Speaker 10>Zelinsky a dictator and whaka twenty five percent tariff on

0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.399
<v Speaker 10>Canada and Mexico. Do you trust Donald Trump to do

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.199
<v Speaker 10>what he says? And in your view, is UCAS a

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 10>lock under his leadership?

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.720
<v Speaker 4>Look, I think UCUS is a lock under his leadership.

0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.880
<v Speaker 9>But I think Donald Trump as a president studies your

0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:15.359
<v Speaker 9>hand very closely. And I think it's incumbent upon the

0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:19.320
<v Speaker 9>Prime Minister to demonstrate the strong hand in future negotiations.

0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.679
<v Speaker 4>And I think Prime Minister is flat flooded.

0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 9>He's not agile, and he should have gone already to

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 9>meet with Donald Trump and to.

0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:28.720
<v Speaker 4>Establish that relationship. We've got a great hand.

0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 9>We've got strategic depth here, which is what we're going

0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.960
<v Speaker 9>to deliver through Aucus. We're already delivering it through Darwin

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 9>and Alice Springs and the joint facilities that we have there.

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.840
<v Speaker 4>And of course we have an abundance of.

0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.399
<v Speaker 9>Rare earths and critical minerals which will be essential for

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 9>military and space applications going forward.

0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.040
<v Speaker 10>So we need to hume bearing gifts, really.

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.400
<v Speaker 9>Not come bearing gifts, stake our position and argue it

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 9>a bit.

0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.520
<v Speaker 4>A hip and shoulder in the Oval Office.

0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.160
<v Speaker 9>I think in any sort of negotiation you need strength.

0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Ben Packham is the Australian's Foreign Affairs and Defense correspondent

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>and Cameron Stewart is our chief international correspondent. You can

0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 1>read all our teams reporting and analysis right now at

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.560
<v Speaker 1>the Australian dot com dot au