Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: When the Country Liberal Party took power in the Northern Territory,
Speaker 1: they scrapped a number of key portfolios, among them was
Speaker 1: climate change. They also moved responsibility for the environment to
Speaker 1: lands and planning, signaling this government wants to prioritize the
Speaker 1: economy in particular big development projects, and now the Anti
Speaker 1: government wants to give itself powers to fast track those
Speaker 1: big developments, potentially sidestepping environmental checks and balances. Today, Executive
Speaker 1: Director of Environment Center NT Kirsty Howie on the Anti
Speaker 1: government's leaked secret proposal and whether it could open the
Speaker 1: floodgates to fracking. It's Friday, November, So, Kirsty. A few
Speaker 1: days ago there was this leaked document the surface that
Speaker 1: announced that the new Northern Territory government have an intention
Speaker 1: of creating a role the Territory Coordinator to begin with,
Speaker 1: can you tell me a bit about how this came
Speaker 1: to light.
Speaker 2: Well, we were surprised when we were notified by one
Speaker 2: of the peak bodies in the Northern Territory that had
Speaker 2: been consulted about it that this consultation paper was doing
Speaker 2: the rounds. We would have expected to be consulted about
Speaker 2: it is a peak environment body in the Northern Territory,
Speaker 2: but if decision was obviously made not to disclose it,
Speaker 2: and as soon as we saw it, we saw a
Speaker 2: huge number of red flags for the Northern Territories environment
Speaker 2: for projects, and really for people's rights and democracy here
Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, so tell me about what's being proposed.
Speaker 2: Well, they're doing is effectively enabling the Chief Minister and
Speaker 2: an unelected, faceless bureaucrat called the Territory Coordinator to take
Speaker 2: over huge power in relation to decision making about projects
Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory. And we would see, for instance,
Speaker 2: these two individuals given the ability to step in and
Speaker 2: undertake environmental assessments for destructive projects like cotton and fracking,
Speaker 2: which have been scrutinized heavily here in the territory and nationally,
Speaker 2: to speed up the assessment of those projects, but perhaps
Speaker 2: most concerningly, to exempt those projects all together from environmental laws,
Speaker 2: and not just environmental laws, pretty much all laws that
Speaker 2: might apply to those projects in the territory, with a
Speaker 2: few notable exceptions.
Speaker 3: Okay, can you break that.
Speaker 1: Down a little more for me, when we talk about
Speaker 1: projects exempt from current Northern Territory laws, are there guardrails
Speaker 1: or their conditions that would need to be met before
Speaker 1: that would happen.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things we're concerned about is that
Speaker 2: we haven't seen the draft legislation yet, so we're operating
Speaker 2: on the basis of a consultation paper that's quite brief.
Speaker 2: There's a statement in this consultation paper that there would be,
Speaker 2: in the case of an exemption declaration which would override
Speaker 2: environmental laws, a gazettel or a notification to Parliament with
Speaker 2: a notice period of just three days before such a
Speaker 2: declaration is made. That's a pretty laughable set of restrictions, precautions,
Speaker 2: guardrails around the exercise of those powers.
Speaker 1: So the Northern Territory government, they explicitly say that this
Speaker 1: is about facilitating development, large scale projects. So let's talk
Speaker 1: a bit about what those projects are. Perhaps we could
Speaker 1: start with the Beagloo Basin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Territory is far away from most places
Speaker 2: of power in Australia and we're not thought about very much.
Speaker 2: But one project which has garnered a lot of national
Speaker 2: attention is fracking in the Beetloo Basin.
Speaker 1: To the Northern Territory. Government has decided to allow a
Speaker 1: full scale onshore gas industry to go ahead in the
Speaker 1: Beaterloo Basin, about five hundred kilometers southeast of Darwin.
Speaker 2: This has been a very contentious practice involving drilling for
Speaker 2: gas four kilometers below the surface of land in the
Speaker 2: Northern Territory and extracting gas through a process known as fracking,
Speaker 2: which can be toxic to waterways. And estimates are that
Speaker 2: this project, if it goes ahead, could generate one point
Speaker 2: four billion tons of carbon emissions, which would add to
Speaker 2: Australia's emissions by something like twenty percent.
Speaker 3: So this is a huge project.
Speaker 2: It's an environmentally destructive project, it's a climate wrecking project.
Speaker 3: And and the fear is that these laws have.
Speaker 2: Been specially designed to get cracking in the Beatloo Basin
Speaker 2: opposed by so many people here in the territory and
Speaker 2: nationally through much more quickly and in fact exempt environmental
Speaker 2: protections from this very very harmful industry.
Speaker 1: And could you get into a little bit of the
Speaker 1: detail with me about what the environmental protections are that
Speaker 1: could be overridden in this scenario.
Speaker 2: One really really good example is protection of water resources,
Speaker 2: and the Northern Territory has got a huge aquifer underlying
Speaker 2: about a third of it, which is an aquifa that
Speaker 2: will be drilled through if racking in the Beeloo Basin
Speaker 2: goes ahead. And ninety percent of people in the Northern
Speaker 2: Territory actually rely on this groundwater to live. That groundwater
Speaker 2: also discharges into really famous iconic ribbons like the Ropa River,
Speaker 2: Mataranka hot Springs, and iconic tourism hotspot the Daily River,
Speaker 2: famous for Barramundi.
Speaker 3: So it's people who rely on this water resource.
Speaker 2: It's communities, it's the fishing industry, it's tourism industry, it's
Speaker 2: absolutely downstream aboriginal communities. So a raft of things have
Speaker 2: been put in place to protect the aquifas, protect the
Speaker 2: rivers from fracking. That includes things like really rigorous transparency measures,
Speaker 2: the rights of public to be able to comment on proposals.
Speaker 3: And these protections are in place for a reason.
Speaker 2: It's because if something goes wrong, the consequences could be
Speaker 2: devastating for so many communities in the Northern Territory, for
Speaker 2: our wildlife, for our precious nature, for our free flowing rivers,
Speaker 2: and for industry, and the fear is is that you
Speaker 2: exempt those laws and it will result in environmental destruction
Speaker 2: after the break.
Speaker 1: How this plan could exempt more than just environmental laws, Kirsty,
Speaker 1: We've been speaking about the Beaterloo basin, but are there
Speaker 1: other projects that you think could be greenlit without consideration
Speaker 1: for environmental laws?
Speaker 3: Look, I think that you know.
Speaker 2: I'm developing a list that is rapidly sort of now
Speaker 2: onto a few pages. There are so many projects that
Speaker 2: could be impacted by this, and not just ones that
Speaker 2: are environmentally harmful. First of all, we do have the
Speaker 2: cotton industry which is bearing down on the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2: We were part of pretty explosive for Corners series just
Speaker 2: before the territory election, which showed gross mismanagement of our
Speaker 2: water resources, of decisions around land clearing and water for
Speaker 2: the cotton industry.
Speaker 4: Here in the Northern Territory. Cotton is being sold as
Speaker 4: the next boom crop, but how business is done up
Speaker 4: here has put the government in conflict with the environment, scientists,
Speaker 4: communities and traditional owners.
Speaker 2: And our fear is that these laws, weak as they are,
Speaker 2: could be exempted. But also there are projects that are
Speaker 2: being fought by the community for many years that could
Speaker 2: be resuscitated by these laws. One really notable example is
Speaker 2: a proposer by Woolworst Dan Murphy's to establish a huge
Speaker 2: liquor store opposite and Aboriginal community in the Northern Territory,
Speaker 2: which was resisted by numerous Aboriginal organizations, health organizations, environmental organizations.
Speaker 3: And these are the kinds.
Speaker 2: Of projects we could see waved through under these new laws.
Speaker 2: And people have been calling me and saying, do you
Speaker 2: think this could exempt the criminal code? Do you think
Speaker 2: this could exempt workplace and safety laws? How could this
Speaker 2: impact workers' rights? There's really very little to stop pernicious
Speaker 2: and dangerous decisions in our view being made that could
Speaker 2: be harmful for communities, harmful for health, harmful for workers
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Given all of that, then is it legal to create
Speaker 1: a body a role that can in effect take actions
Speaker 1: outside current anty laws?
Speaker 2: Will be a difficult task for the Northern Territory to
Speaker 2: do anything that would oust or displace federal laws. And
Speaker 2: there are a couple of laws that are mentioned in
Speaker 2: the consultation paper that would not be affected by this proposal,
Speaker 2: that includes federal environmental law, the Aboriginal Land Rights Act,
Speaker 2: the Native Title Act. To give a few examples, so constitutionally,
Speaker 2: the Northern Territory can't exempt those laws. As to other
Speaker 2: questions about the validity of these laws, I think we're
Speaker 2: going to have to wait to see what the laws
Speaker 2: look like when the draft is released to the public,
Speaker 2: if indeed that ever happens. Hopefully we see an exposure
Speaker 2: draft before it gets into Parliament, which could be as
Speaker 2: soon as the end of this month, and we'll certainly
Speaker 2: be looking really closely whether these laws are constitutional valid
Speaker 2: whether there are other questions about their validity, because it's
Speaker 2: profoundly concerning that any government in Australia could pass laws
Speaker 2: like this that override very very important protections and concentrate
Speaker 2: power in the executive right.
Speaker 1: And at the moment, Kirsty, the only thing that is
Speaker 1: public is a briefing paper, So how likely is this
Speaker 1: to turn into draft legislation and then to end up
Speaker 1: before Parliament.
Speaker 2: What we have in the Northern Territory, and people may
Speaker 2: not be aware of this, is actually a really kind
Speaker 2: of constrained form of democracy where a territory wh're not
Speaker 2: a state, we have a unicameral parliament and at the
Speaker 2: moment the COLP newly elected has got a seventeen seat majority,
Speaker 2: so that means there's very little in the way of
Speaker 2: guardrails to stop these laws from going through. They could
Speaker 2: be passed very very quickly. It could be introduced as
Speaker 2: early as the twenty sixth of November, which is when
Speaker 2: the next sitting's parliam are and could be passed under urgency,
Speaker 2: so we could see this signed, sealed and delivered before
Speaker 2: the end of the month. And at this stage no
Speaker 2: one has seen an exposure draft, the public has not
Speaker 2: been consulted about it, and there's very little in the
Speaker 2: way of parliamentary scrutiny processes to slow this down. And
Speaker 2: the last thing I've mentioned is, you know, this government's
Speaker 2: only been in power for a couple of months. They
Speaker 2: are elected at the end of August, and already they
Speaker 2: have suspended standing orders in relation to very controversial and
Speaker 2: punitive laws that lower the age criminal responsibility from twelve
Speaker 2: to ten.
Speaker 3: So already after two months.
Speaker 2: They've got a track record of suspending parliamentary processes and
Speaker 2: getting laws through under urgency that have really wide ranging impacts.
Speaker 1: What does it say to you about the priorities of
Speaker 1: this new government.
Speaker 3: Well, it's certainly really worrying on the environmental front.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, what we have here in the territory is an
Speaker 2: endless push for large scale extractive development, whatever the cost,
Speaker 2: and that's disappointing when we are such a special place,
Speaker 2: even though we're far away from places like Sydney and Melbourne.
Speaker 2: And also we are looking at being uninhabitable due to
Speaker 2: climate change within a couple of generations. We're going to
Speaker 2: be hit the hardest by climate change out of.
Speaker 3: Anywhere in Australia.
Speaker 2: And to have laws being passed it could exempt protections
Speaker 2: for our climate, protections for our nature is profoundly worrying
Speaker 2: for just people's.
Speaker 3: Ability to exist here in the future.
Speaker 1: Right And to what extent do you think that the
Speaker 1: isolation of the Northern Territory plays into this? Do you
Speaker 1: think that there is less scrutiny because of a smaller population,
Speaker 1: because of how far away different parts of the territory are,
Speaker 1: and therefore perhaps more potential for things that would not
Speaker 1: be attempted in other places to essentially go through challenged
Speaker 1: or unnoticed in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2: Look, I think that that is absolutely leveraged by politicians here.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff that you can get away
Speaker 2: with here. Because it's out of sight and out of
Speaker 2: mind from the rest of Australia. Fracking the Beteloo Basin
Speaker 2: is a monstrous idea. We have had francking band in Victoria,
Speaker 2: huge community resistance to it in other parts of Australia,
Speaker 2: but you know, it's full steam ahead here in the
Speaker 2: Northern Territory. We've also got crazy projects planned like the
Speaker 2: proposed Middle Arm Gas and Petrochemical Hub, which the taxpayer
Speaker 2: is funding in Australia to the tune of one point
Speaker 2: five billion dollars, and we'll see huge toxic petrochemical factories
Speaker 2: constructed in Darwin Harbor using fracked gas from the Beloo Basin.
Speaker 3: And offshore gas fields. I just that would not.
Speaker 2: Happen anymore in twenty twenty four in Sydney or Melbourne.
Speaker 2: And you know, people here believe that they can get
Speaker 2: away with this stuff because we're so far away from
Speaker 2: their centers of power. But it's very important that people
Speaker 2: in Australia understand just what is at risk here because
Speaker 2: it will impact all of us.
Speaker 1: Kirsty, thank you so much, Viata, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Ruby.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Prime Minister Anthony Alberanezi has
Speaker 1: announced the government will seek to ban Australians under the
Speaker 1: age of sixteen from social media, with a proposal to
Speaker 1: be put before the States at a national Cabinet meeting
Speaker 1: on Friday. The government hasn't stated how it expects social
Speaker 1: media platforms to enforce the ban, but says the owners
Speaker 1: will be on them to demonstrate they're taking reasonable steps
Speaker 1: to prevent access for young people, with penalties for online
Speaker 1: platforms that don't comply. And the Israeli Defense Forces said
Speaker 1: residents from northern Gaza will not be allowed to return
Speaker 1: home as ground four horses get closer to the total
Speaker 1: evacuation of the area. In a media briefing, a senior
Speaker 1: IDF officer said that because troops had been forced to
Speaker 1: enter some areas twice, they have no intention to allow
Speaker 1: evicted residents back. Seven Am is a daily show from
Speaker 1: Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper. It's made by Attic Cospasto,
Speaker 1: Shane Anderson, Chris Enngate, Daniel James, Eric Jensen, me Ruby Jones,
Speaker 1: Sarah mcvee, Travis Evans and Sultan Fetcho.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week.