1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,420 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,170 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The housing market comes out of its summer hibernation 3 00:00:10,410 --> 00:00:12,719 Sean Aylmer: after the public holiday this week, and it appears the 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,650 Sean Aylmer: downturn in prices, is losing momentum. Well, maybe I'm just 5 00:00:16,650 --> 00:00:19,500 Sean Aylmer: hopeful on that one. Domain's quarterly house price report, which 6 00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:22,290 Sean Aylmer: is out today, shows an easing pace of quarterly decline 7 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:26,640 Sean Aylmer: in Sydney, Brisbane, and Canberra, and prices stabilizing in Melbourne, 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,820 Sean Aylmer: Adelaide and Hobart. So what's it mean for the coming 9 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:32,670 Sean Aylmer: months? Dr. Nicola Powell is the chief of research and 10 00:00:32,670 --> 00:00:37,050 Sean Aylmer: economics at Domain. Nicola, welcome back to Fair and Greed for 2023. 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,830 Nicola Powell: Thank you for having me on again. Yes, 2023. 12 00:00:40,830 --> 00:00:41,490 Sean Aylmer: It's incredible. 13 00:00:41,700 --> 00:00:44,340 Nicola Powell: Yeah, it is incredible. Where did 2022 go? 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,150 Sean Aylmer: Exactly. So before we leave 2022, take me through some 15 00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:50,790 Sean Aylmer: of the stats from the December quarter. The decline has 16 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:52,290 Sean Aylmer: definitely slowed in some states. 17 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:55,950 Nicola Powell: That is true. I think it was a really clear 18 00:00:55,950 --> 00:00:59,160 Nicola Powell: narrative when we were looking at the time series across 19 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,910 Nicola Powell: our various capital cities and across the combined capital cities. 20 00:01:03,570 --> 00:01:07,229 Nicola Powell: Each city tells a slight different story, but the big 21 00:01:07,230 --> 00:01:12,090 Nicola Powell: takeaway was Australia's housing market downturn did lose momentum over 22 00:01:12,090 --> 00:01:15,270 Nicola Powell: the December quarter. But I also think it's important to 23 00:01:15,270 --> 00:01:18,090 Nicola Powell: put it into perspective compared to what we had been 24 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:21,569 Nicola Powell: seeing. Because if we go back to the September quarter, 25 00:01:21,810 --> 00:01:24,509 Nicola Powell: what we saw in terms of house prices, we saw 26 00:01:24,510 --> 00:01:27,420 Nicola Powell: a significant rate of decline in the three months to 27 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:32,369 Nicola Powell: September. So in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Canberra, Hobart, and across 28 00:01:32,370 --> 00:01:36,419 Nicola Powell: the combined capitals we saw house prices make the steepest 29 00:01:36,420 --> 00:01:39,509 Nicola Powell: quarterly fall ever to be recorded across all of those 30 00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:43,620 Nicola Powell: capital cities. So we are still seeing some capital city 31 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:46,680 Nicola Powell: see house price falls over the December quarter, but I 32 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,050 Nicola Powell: think what this shows is we are moving away from 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,410 Nicola Powell: that peak rate of quarterly decline that I really think 34 00:01:52,410 --> 00:01:54,180 Nicola Powell: was felt in the September quarter. 35 00:01:55,020 --> 00:01:59,490 Sean Aylmer: I'm just interested, lots of different market economists think that 36 00:01:59,490 --> 00:02:02,640 Sean Aylmer: house prices still have a long way to go. Interest 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,510 Sean Aylmer: rates, even if they don't go much higher, the full 38 00:02:06,510 --> 00:02:11,580 Sean Aylmer: impact hasn't hit people with mortgages yet, I think. How 39 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:14,070 Sean Aylmer: do you think the next couple of quarters will go? 40 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,840 Nicola Powell: So I think we're still expecting property prices to continue 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,380 Nicola Powell: to fall. I think it was a pretty unusual spring 42 00:02:22,380 --> 00:02:25,800 Nicola Powell: selling season for the housing market because one of the 43 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,060 Nicola Powell: aspects that's really helped to place a floor under property 44 00:02:30,060 --> 00:02:33,180 Nicola Powell: prices over the December quarter was really a lack of 45 00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:35,940 Nicola Powell: new supply coming onto the market. When you have a 46 00:02:35,940 --> 00:02:39,810 Nicola Powell: look at new listings nationally, in regional markets, and also 47 00:02:39,810 --> 00:02:43,290 Nicola Powell: across the combined capitals, we really didn't see that seasonal 48 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:47,700 Nicola Powell: bounce in new listings going from August to September and 49 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:51,179 Nicola Powell: actually over the spring selling season and into early summer, 50 00:02:51,419 --> 00:02:55,380 Nicola Powell: listings overall, the flow of new listings has been unseasonably 51 00:02:55,380 --> 00:02:58,200 Nicola Powell: weak for this time of year. And what that means 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,250 Nicola Powell: is we are not seeing a dramatic buildup of total supply on 53 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:06,119 Nicola Powell: the market, at a national level, total supply is down 54 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,520 Nicola Powell: 3% over the past year and when you compare it 55 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,419 Nicola Powell: to that five year average, it's about 23% lower at 56 00:03:12,419 --> 00:03:14,790 Nicola Powell: the end of December compared to that five year average. 57 00:03:15,090 --> 00:03:18,149 Nicola Powell: And it's the same trends really across the combined capitals 58 00:03:18,150 --> 00:03:21,540 Nicola Powell: and into regional Australia. So it's been a really unusual 59 00:03:21,540 --> 00:03:25,530 Nicola Powell: period of time where I think we've seen prospective sellers 60 00:03:25,590 --> 00:03:28,919 Nicola Powell: sit and wait, and wait to see how far property 61 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,160 Nicola Powell: prices fall, whether we continue to see them fall at 62 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,560 Nicola Powell: the fast rate that we had been seeing over the 63 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,860 Nicola Powell: September quarter. And I think that in itself, we've seen 64 00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:40,260 Nicola Powell: obviously a pullback in buyer demand to the number of 65 00:03:40,260 --> 00:03:42,600 Nicola Powell: sales as well. But I think the fact that we've 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,870 Nicola Powell: seen sellers go to the sidelines a little bit has 67 00:03:45,870 --> 00:03:49,470 Nicola Powell: really helped provide that floor for property prices so far. 68 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:53,580 Sean Aylmer: But presumably those sellers will come into the market at 69 00:03:53,580 --> 00:03:57,870 Sean Aylmer: some point, won't they? And that won't help property prices? Well, not if you 70 00:03:57,870 --> 00:03:58,680 Sean Aylmer: are trying to sell. 71 00:03:59,220 --> 00:04:02,130 Nicola Powell: And this is one of the unknowns because those delayed 72 00:04:02,130 --> 00:04:05,070 Nicola Powell: decisions could come to the market in autumn or they 73 00:04:05,070 --> 00:04:07,260 Nicola Powell: could come later in the year in the spring selling 74 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:11,100 Nicola Powell: season of 2023. And I think what happens to those 75 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:14,010 Nicola Powell: delayed decisions and when the level of new listings, if 76 00:04:14,010 --> 00:04:17,850 Nicola Powell: they do make a significant increase, that's obviously going to 77 00:04:17,850 --> 00:04:20,430 Nicola Powell: impact the total level of supply on the market. So 78 00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:23,760 Nicola Powell: I think that along with strong levels of inflation and 79 00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:27,150 Nicola Powell: we are expecting interest rates to continue to rise, there 80 00:04:27,150 --> 00:04:31,529 Nicola Powell: are many things that could weigh in on our housing 81 00:04:31,529 --> 00:04:35,490 Nicola Powell: market and we are still expecting property prices to fall. But I 82 00:04:35,490 --> 00:04:39,060 Nicola Powell: think what we've seen is such a significant decline over 83 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:43,440 Nicola Powell: September quarter and that momentum has been lost over December. 84 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,469 Nicola Powell: But as I said, we are expecting property prices to 85 00:04:46,470 --> 00:04:48,839 Nicola Powell: continue to decline at least in the first half of 86 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:49,320 Nicola Powell: this year. 87 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,349 Sean Aylmer: If we bring context to this, if you look at 88 00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:58,800 Sean Aylmer: a 10, 20, 30 year chart, our Australia's property prices for homes 89 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,430 Sean Aylmer: and for apartments, obviously they're four in the last 12 90 00:05:02,430 --> 00:05:05,880 Sean Aylmer: months, but is the long term trend is still up? 91 00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:10,979 Nicola Powell: Yes, it really is. And we've done some analysis around 92 00:05:10,980 --> 00:05:14,910 Nicola Powell: property price cycles and we looked across combined capitals and 93 00:05:14,910 --> 00:05:17,040 Nicola Powell: we picked out some of the cities as well, and 94 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,220 Nicola Powell: we had a look at the steepness and the duration 95 00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:23,760 Nicola Powell: of an upswing and then the proceeding downturn that unraveled 96 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,299 Nicola Powell: afterwards. And what we found is the downturns tend to 97 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:30,330 Nicola Powell: be shorter and less severe than the upswing that proceeded. 98 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,830 Nicola Powell: So it's unlikely, based on that kind of historical lens, 99 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:38,070 Nicola Powell: that it's unlikely that we will see property prices pull 100 00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:41,730 Nicola Powell: back to where they were prior to the pandemic upswing. 101 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,420 Nicola Powell: I think house prices are very different to unit prices 102 00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:49,560 Nicola Powell: because the upswing of the pandemic was really concentrated in 103 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,589 Nicola Powell: house prices. We saw two of our capital cities, that 104 00:05:52,589 --> 00:05:57,540 Nicola Powell: was Canberra and Hobart, see just over a 50% increase in 105 00:05:57,540 --> 00:06:01,020 Nicola Powell: house prices during the pandemic and a phenomenal rate of 106 00:06:01,020 --> 00:06:04,020 Nicola Powell: growth. And many of our other capital cities, we've got 107 00:06:04,020 --> 00:06:06,929 Nicola Powell: Sydney saw a 40% increase. And when you have a 108 00:06:06,930 --> 00:06:10,560 Nicola Powell: look at the downturn to date, house prices in Sydney 109 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,030 Nicola Powell: have seen the deepest fall. They're just over 11% behind 110 00:06:15,270 --> 00:06:18,239 Nicola Powell: or below the price peak that was in March of 111 00:06:18,270 --> 00:06:23,820 Nicola Powell: 2022. So 11% is a big decline. This is well into 112 00:06:24,270 --> 00:06:27,839 Nicola Powell: the downturn for Sydney. Sydney is certainly leading the price 113 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,719 Nicola Powell: cycle and some of the other capital cities that have also seen 114 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,680 Nicola Powell: a significant decline. Canberra is up there at almost 7% from 115 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,219 Nicola Powell: its peak or 6. 7% and Brisbane as well, 6.6%. 116 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:42,210 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me Nicola. We'll be back in a minute. 117 00:06:48,210 --> 00:06:50,880 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Dr. Nicola Powell, chief of 118 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,690 Sean Aylmer: Research and Economics at Domain. Okay. I just want to 119 00:06:54,690 --> 00:06:56,370 Sean Aylmer: ask you about a few things that we've got coming 120 00:06:56,370 --> 00:07:00,150 Sean Aylmer: up this year which could affect property prices. The first 121 00:07:00,150 --> 00:07:04,229 Sean Aylmer: one, fixed rate mortgages, people rolling off those. Now there 122 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:07,140 Sean Aylmer: seems to be, well I'm only reading the media and 123 00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:09,750 Sean Aylmer: of course you can always trust the media Nicola Powell 124 00:07:09,750 --> 00:07:12,600 Sean Aylmer: from Domain, but it seems like a bunch will be 125 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,840 Sean Aylmer: rolling off fixed rate mortgages this year going on to 126 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,240 Sean Aylmer: variable rate mortgages and they'll really notice that. 127 00:07:19,050 --> 00:07:22,050 Nicola Powell: Absolutely, and I think that's why, I mean it's so 128 00:07:22,050 --> 00:07:24,780 Nicola Powell: hard to have that crystal ball and have that accurate 129 00:07:24,780 --> 00:07:27,270 Nicola Powell: prediction of what's going to happen to the property market 130 00:07:27,270 --> 00:07:30,870 Nicola Powell: because there's no single factor that drives our housing market 131 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:34,739 Nicola Powell: cycles, there are many factors that influence. Interest rates are 132 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:36,510 Nicola Powell: one of those, but there are many others such as 133 00:07:36,510 --> 00:07:40,650 Nicola Powell: population growth, demographic changes, and when we saw that impact 134 00:07:40,650 --> 00:07:43,830 Nicola Powell: during the pandemic. And I think the fiscal cliff is 135 00:07:44,130 --> 00:07:46,680 Nicola Powell: obviously one of those things to watch for this year 136 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,310 Nicola Powell: because we are going to see many mortgage holders roll 137 00:07:50,310 --> 00:07:53,490 Nicola Powell: off of those rock bottom interest rates that were locked 138 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:56,940 Nicola Powell: in in 2021. And that is a risk, one of 139 00:07:56,940 --> 00:08:00,000 Nicola Powell: the risks, for the housing market. I'm probably more in 140 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,560 Nicola Powell: the positive camp for this fiscal cliff that's coming. I 141 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:09,000 Nicola Powell: think banks don't want mortgage holders to default on their 142 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,510 Nicola Powell: mortgage repayments and I think banks will be already prepping 143 00:08:12,510 --> 00:08:16,740 Nicola Powell: and having those conversations with their clients that are due 144 00:08:16,740 --> 00:08:20,730 Nicola Powell: to see their fixed rates expire this year. And while 145 00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:24,150 Nicola Powell: it is a risk, I think to have a dramatic 146 00:08:24,270 --> 00:08:27,480 Nicola Powell: impact on property prices, we need to see a broad- 147 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,350 Nicola Powell: based increase in distress listings and we're not seeing it 148 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:33,840 Nicola Powell: today. It's something that we are going to be tracking 149 00:08:33,929 --> 00:08:36,600 Nicola Powell: intensely this year to see if we do see those 150 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,370 Nicola Powell: distress listings increase. But so far, and I remain optimistic 151 00:08:41,550 --> 00:08:45,449 Nicola Powell: about distress listings this year and that fiscal cliff. It 152 00:08:45,450 --> 00:08:47,760 Nicola Powell: is obviously a risk, but as I said, we would 153 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,050 Nicola Powell: have to see a dramatic increase in a broader scale 154 00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:54,870 Nicola Powell: level of distress listings across the market. 155 00:08:55,350 --> 00:08:58,710 Sean Aylmer: Okay. What about investor demand and then how that flows 156 00:08:58,710 --> 00:09:02,550 Sean Aylmer: through to rents? It just seems that rents are extremely 157 00:09:02,550 --> 00:09:04,800 Sean Aylmer: high at the moment, and if I'm an investor and 158 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,559 Sean Aylmer: can afford it, it seems like not a bad option. How 159 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,600 Sean Aylmer: do you think that'll play out over the next 12 months? 160 00:09:10,140 --> 00:09:13,800 Nicola Powell: And this is one of the positive drivers for increasing 161 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,090 Nicola Powell: property prices, particularly for unit prices because as you said, 162 00:09:18,090 --> 00:09:22,050 Nicola Powell: the rental market is extraordinarily tight. It's a landlord's market 163 00:09:22,050 --> 00:09:25,410 Nicola Powell: across Australia, all of our cities, into the regional markets. 164 00:09:26,010 --> 00:09:28,380 Nicola Powell: We've got house and unit rents are at record highs 165 00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:32,189 Nicola Powell: across the combined capitals. And every single capital city has 166 00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:35,130 Nicola Powell: a record high house and unit price apart from Darwin 167 00:09:35,340 --> 00:09:39,240 Nicola Powell: and units in Perth. So this isn't just a single 168 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,090 Nicola Powell: area in Australia that's in a landlord's market and seeing 169 00:09:42,090 --> 00:09:46,500 Nicola Powell: record rents, this is largely Australia wide. We've seen the 170 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:50,790 Nicola Powell: longest stretch of continuous rental growth in the history of 171 00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:53,670 Nicola Powell: our time series. So house rents have risen now for 172 00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:56,670 Nicola Powell: seven quarters in a row and unit rents have risen 173 00:09:56,670 --> 00:09:59,490 Nicola Powell: for six quarters in a row. So it is tight, 174 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:04,860 Nicola Powell: it's competitive. And I think we have seen extreme competition 175 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:08,400 Nicola Powell: between tenants and I think for investors that is a 176 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,320 Nicola Powell: carrot to come into the property market. And I think 177 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:16,530 Nicola Powell: that is one of the factors that could help support 178 00:10:16,530 --> 00:10:20,970 Nicola Powell: property prices and particularly unit prices more so than house prices 179 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:24,870 Nicola Powell: moving forward. And I think the other positive part for 180 00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:28,170 Nicola Powell: investors is we've got gross yields now improving as well 181 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:30,690 Nicola Powell: because we've got high rents and we've got softening property 182 00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:34,260 Nicola Powell: prices. So the outlook for an investor, when you look 183 00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:36,660 Nicola Powell: at that tight rental market in those improved yields, I 184 00:10:36,660 --> 00:10:39,870 Nicola Powell: think those that aren't phased by purchasing a property in 185 00:10:39,870 --> 00:10:43,350 Nicola Powell: a downturn I think will be actively looking now. 186 00:10:44,340 --> 00:10:47,550 Sean Aylmer: Do you think Nicola, that given rents to sell high, 187 00:10:47,550 --> 00:10:53,069 Sean Aylmer: it is something the government should step into and intervene 188 00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:56,429 Sean Aylmer: in the market? I say that as an economist and 189 00:10:56,429 --> 00:10:58,800 Sean Aylmer: I don't believe they should, so it's hard for me 190 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,179 Sean Aylmer: to even ask that question. But there are people who 191 00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:05,400 Sean Aylmer: are really struggling to pay rent and that is a 192 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,309 Sean Aylmer: societal problem that we have to worry about. It might 193 00:11:08,309 --> 00:11:11,429 Sean Aylmer: be great for investors, but there are people struggling just 194 00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:14,250 Sean Aylmer: to keep something over their head. 195 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:17,610 Nicola Powell: Yeah, I mean there's two signs of a coin. Obviously 196 00:11:17,610 --> 00:11:21,059 Nicola Powell: there are people out there that are really struggling to 197 00:11:21,059 --> 00:11:24,599 Nicola Powell: pay and meet their rental obligations. But then on the 198 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,500 Nicola Powell: flip side of that, you've got investors facing higher costs 199 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:31,079 Nicola Powell: of holding a mortgage. When you have a look at 200 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,850 Nicola Powell: the accumulative increase that a mortgage holder will be facing, 201 00:11:36,090 --> 00:11:38,520 Nicola Powell: if you've got a million dollar mortgage, that's been an 202 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:44,730 Nicola Powell: increase of $1, 800 a month. So I think there's additional costs 203 00:11:44,730 --> 00:11:48,179 Nicola Powell: being faced on both sides from the investment side, but 204 00:11:48,179 --> 00:11:51,660 Nicola Powell: also going back to your original questions of, " Should governments 205 00:11:51,690 --> 00:11:55,020 Nicola Powell: intervene?" I think there are certain areas where the government 206 00:11:55,020 --> 00:11:58,199 Nicola Powell: should intervene in the rental market, and I think it's 207 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,850 Nicola Powell: things like social housing. We haven't built enough social housing 208 00:12:02,850 --> 00:12:06,360 Nicola Powell: to house our most vulnerable Australians. So what that means 209 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,900 Nicola Powell: is we've got many vulnerable Australians in the private rental 210 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:13,650 Nicola Powell: market and that places additional demand. They're then facing record 211 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:16,140 Nicola Powell: high rents. And I think that is one of the 212 00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:19,470 Nicola Powell: things where government can really help to provide more social 213 00:12:19,470 --> 00:12:22,290 Nicola Powell: housing in the right areas and maybe other things like 214 00:12:22,290 --> 00:12:27,179 Nicola Powell: additional rental assistance provided for low income households because the 215 00:12:27,179 --> 00:12:31,170 Nicola Powell: rental market dynamics have changed so dramatically. And I think 216 00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:34,979 Nicola Powell: we need more investment activity because we need change in 217 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:39,420 Nicola Powell: the rental market, it's such a tight environment for a tenant. 218 00:12:39,780 --> 00:12:41,940 Nicola Powell: In some areas it is literally like trying to find 219 00:12:41,940 --> 00:12:43,830 Nicola Powell: a needle in a haystack when you are trying to 220 00:12:43,830 --> 00:12:46,440 Nicola Powell: secure a new lease. But it's other things like build- to- 221 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,600 Nicola Powell: rent as well. You're helping to advance the build- to- 222 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,170 Nicola Powell: rent sector because build- to- rent is something that is 223 00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:56,429 Nicola Powell: much more advanced in other countries like the UK. There's 224 00:12:56,429 --> 00:12:59,880 Nicola Powell: no one thing that can alleviate pressure in the rental 225 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:01,650 Nicola Powell: market. I think it needs to be a combination. 226 00:13:01,890 --> 00:13:03,689 Sean Aylmer: Nicola, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 227 00:13:04,260 --> 00:13:04,890 Nicola Powell: Thank you. 228 00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:08,520 Sean Aylmer: That was Dr. Nicola Powell, chief of Research and Economics 229 00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:11,190 Sean Aylmer: at Domain. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. 230 00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:13,380 Sean Aylmer: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear 231 00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:16,530 Sean Aylmer: and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. 232 00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:17,460 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.