Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About, the Stellar podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit
Speaker 1: down with some of the biggest names in the country
Speaker 1: because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come
Speaker 1: to Something to Talk About. It's been a big year
Speaker 1: for Osher Ginsburg. In March, he turned fifty. Two months later,
Speaker 1: in May, it was announced that the two shows he's
Speaker 1: been hosting for several years, The Bachelor and The Mask Singer,
Speaker 1: would not be returning to our screens. But here's the thing,
Speaker 1: Osha wasn't surprised. In fact, he'd been preparing for the
Speaker 1: news for a long time because, having experienced the soaring
Speaker 1: highs and the painful lows during his three decades in
Speaker 1: show business, he'd already learned the hard way. What can
Speaker 1: happen when losing a job takes you by surprise.
Speaker 2: You might book that big show for one day, that's
Speaker 2: showsking it canceled unless you're hosting the six colt news
Speaker 2: that format one day people are gonna watch it anymore.
Speaker 3: So what are you going to do then? And you'd
Speaker 3: better be ready for that day?
Speaker 1: With his usual candor, Osher joins me on something to
Speaker 1: talk about today, to chat about how he learned to
Speaker 1: be better prepared for life to change on a dime,
Speaker 1: the personal health struggles he chronicles in his new documentary
Speaker 1: A World of Pain, and what might draw him back
Speaker 1: to television permanently one day. Washa Ginsburg, Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Stellar Podcast.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: It is lovely to have you here.
Speaker 3: Though you know there's a lot of cameras for your house.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of cameras. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: heat radiating from these lights as well. I would love
Speaker 1: if you would join us at some point as a
Speaker 1: consultant director. I have to say, listeners, Osha has come
Speaker 1: in and is just in thirty seconds in a really
Speaker 1: good natured, graceful, effortless way, has just tweaked things. I'm like,
Speaker 1: hire this man immediately.
Speaker 2: I've been in broadcasting since so for thirty years I've
Speaker 2: been in broadcasting, and I was a roadie before that,
Speaker 2: which is one of the reasons that we're hearing age now.
Speaker 2: But if you're able to add value at every point,
Speaker 2: you're going to be okay in your career. Even at
Speaker 2: the moment when I don't have a regular TV gig.
Speaker 2: If I can show up and add value, then you're
Speaker 2: a valuable person to be around.
Speaker 1: Well, I love it and it certainly worked its magic here.
Speaker 1: I really do mean that. I think to come into
Speaker 1: somebody's orbit and workspace and add value is you want
Speaker 1: to do literally in.
Speaker 3: Value without downgrading what is already happening.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you've been in broadcasting for thirty years,
Speaker 1: when you have had the inevitable highs and lows during
Speaker 1: that time. One of the periods, of course, this year,
Speaker 1: was back in May you lost two jobs.
Speaker 2: In my old Well, that's when I talked about it.
Speaker 2: I knew it was happening six months earlier you did.
Speaker 1: And I love this because you were sort of preparing
Speaker 1: for it as well. So for obviously just to catch
Speaker 1: up our audience. And we're talking about the Mask Singer
Speaker 1: and The Bachelor being announced to Australia that they would
Speaker 1: be no more on the one day, and of course, Osha,
Speaker 1: you had been the steady face of both of those,
Speaker 1: I mean The Bachelor for ten years, a Bachelor Australia.
Speaker 1: You were the founding host of that show and the
Speaker 1: heartbeat literally of that show to it's many incarnation heartbeat.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you a little bit about getting
Speaker 1: through that day, because, as you say, you had seen
Speaker 1: it come, and you wrote a great piece for Men's
Speaker 1: Health earlier this year about how the same thing had happened,
Speaker 1: hence the Godfather reference in twenty twelve, and so without
Speaker 1: any defeatist or negative attitude, you had been bracing for
Speaker 1: it in the most constructive way possible.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like, you know, if you play an RL,
Speaker 2: if you play rugby league, all right, you may be
Speaker 2: nineteen and you may be getting picked all the time,
Speaker 2: you might even make the Origin team. Yet you know
Speaker 2: there's no thirty eight year olds playing. There's not one
Speaker 2: ACL or MCL or shoulder that still exists unscathed than
Speaker 2: any of those people who've finished. At some point, you've
Speaker 2: got to think about, well, if I make it to
Speaker 2: that point where I get to retire under my own terms,
Speaker 2: what happens? But also every single time I touch the ball,
Speaker 2: through no fault of my own, just backing someone up
Speaker 2: on a tackle, I could have an injury that ends
Speaker 2: everything today.
Speaker 3: What do I do then? All right, and you have.
Speaker 2: To be thinking about that all the time, not like
Speaker 2: you want to be focusing on what you're making, but
Speaker 2: you also have to kind of be aware that should
Speaker 2: you not have Like I like to talk about this
Speaker 2: when I go and speak to people about keeping your
Speaker 2: brain on, you know in the green zone when you're working.
Speaker 2: The antidote to panic is a plan.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: My former manager's passed away now called John Ferreder. He
Speaker 2: used to say, you may book that big show, but
Speaker 2: one day that show is going to get canceled because
Speaker 2: no matter so even if, like unless you're hosting the
Speaker 2: six o'clock news that format, one day people are gonna
Speaker 2: watch it anymore. So what are you going to do then?
Speaker 2: And you better be ready for that day. Now I
Speaker 2: have been unready for that day. I know what that's
Speaker 2: like to be not prepared. I never wanted to do
Speaker 2: that again. So the you know, I went to business
Speaker 2: school before I started Batch, and one of the things
Speaker 2: that I learned there was, you know, portioning up my time.
Speaker 2: And there's a percentage of time that I spend on
Speaker 2: just making the next thing shelf like shovel ready essentially,
Speaker 2: as they say in politics, shove already and just be
Speaker 2: working on those things and have them ready to deploy
Speaker 2: and kind of have an idea of where it's going
Speaker 2: and every time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I was a.
Speaker 2: Single man when I started making that TV show, and
Speaker 2: then I had a girlfriend who had a kid, and
Speaker 2: then I had a fiance who had a kid. And
Speaker 2: then I had a step dorder and a wife, and
Speaker 2: then I had a wife and a step daughter and
Speaker 2: a son, and then that all, you know, things very different.
Speaker 2: So that plan does need to change with you as
Speaker 2: you go. But you always need to think, Okay, look ahead,
Speaker 2: what's going on. Let's have a look here, how many
Speaker 2: more seasons of this game or whatever it is that
Speaker 2: we're playing, and be ready for that day and communicate
Speaker 2: with you know, whoever is involved. Like in this case
Speaker 2: with Ordery, my wife, it's like pretty sure, like by
Speaker 2: twenty four it's we're not going to have it anymore.
Speaker 2: So let's start getting ready for this. And look that
Speaker 2: also comes with like me like I don't.
Speaker 3: Know how to do that. So hire an account that does.
Speaker 2: And that pays itself off. But if you give yourself
Speaker 2: that space, you know you're and you take the time
Speaker 2: and you make the sacrifices you need to make to
Speaker 2: put that cash aside, that runway aside. What you buy
Speaker 2: is something you cannot afford any other time in the
Speaker 2: world you are buying something completely available in that as
Speaker 2: the time to make a choice, a time that is
Speaker 2: not driven by any kind of desperation. I've been in
Speaker 2: that position. I've taken jobs for money. I have been
Speaker 2: with no cash flow at all and be like, oh, crikey,
Speaker 2: I'm going to do now. Nobody likes to be in
Speaker 2: that position, but thankfully we You know, it's not easy,
Speaker 2: and nobody is thrilled about it, you know so, But
Speaker 2: it's a part of the job that I've chosen, and
Speaker 2: that's that's okay.
Speaker 3: I don't know how to do anything else, so this
Speaker 3: is it.
Speaker 1: It's also about in life in general. None of us
Speaker 1: can ever predict or control what's around the corner, professionally
Speaker 1: or personally, or in the wider global environment around us.
Speaker 1: But we can only learn to control our reaction to it.
Speaker 1: And you turn fifty early this year, late happy birthday,
Speaker 1: by the way. To have that sense of whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it, agility resilience has got to be
Speaker 1: probably the greatest gift that you could hope for at
Speaker 1: any point in your life.
Speaker 3: It's pretty lucky. I'm pretty lucky I learned how to
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to do this long time ago,
Speaker 2: and setbacks would just sideline me completely and it was
Speaker 2: it was bad, you know, I let this stuff destroy me.
Speaker 3: And there was a whole period when.
Speaker 2: I lived in America about ten years, and I would
Speaker 2: go to meetings and I would have this idea, like,
Speaker 2: there's these rules of show business and one of them
Speaker 2: came from Charlie Clauson, the actor and podcaster.
Speaker 3: It's either a fast yes or a slow no. And
Speaker 3: as the nose.
Speaker 2: Start to get slower and slower, that's your clue. As
Speaker 2: the yes is slow down, you're like, they're not that
Speaker 2: into it, all right. And so I used to get
Speaker 2: a fast yes in a meeting in the room all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: But I was walking around with a stink of desperation
Speaker 3: on me.
Speaker 2: And I would take meetings with people I work really
Speaker 2: hard to get these meetings a big heavy hitters about
Speaker 2: you know, hosting TV shows or you know format se
Speaker 2: I was creating, and they would just passing the room man,
Speaker 2: And that never happened in my career.
Speaker 3: It's like, what am.
Speaker 2: I bringing to this? Because the idea is good, what
Speaker 2: am I bringing to this? And I had to really
Speaker 2: have a look at myself. I was like, I'm walking
Speaker 2: in with this sense of this is everything, Please are
Speaker 2: yes to me, and nobody wants that. You know, people
Speaker 2: don't want to be the one that's pulling you out
Speaker 2: of them, you know, out of the meyer and true.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to rescue anybody. And I was walking in
Speaker 2: with please save this, save me, save me, save me,
Speaker 2: and nobody wants that.
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to work with that person.
Speaker 2: So I had to kind of figure out how to
Speaker 2: not do that, which I did.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm grateful that I don't really have that now.
Speaker 1: I want to go back a little bit to the
Speaker 1: Bachelor event of that turning point in your life. You
Speaker 1: mentioned that's where you met your wife ten years ago
Speaker 1: now to fourteen, and you have a copiring a stepdaughter
Speaker 1: with her, and you have a son who's turning six
Speaker 1: I think soon, Wolfgang, that is a huge part of
Speaker 1: I imagine what you associate with that professional time in your life.
Speaker 1: But the Osha Ginsburg that's come out the other side
Speaker 1: of that experience of the Bachelor Australia is this extremely resilient,
Speaker 1: well loved person. So what it did for your career
Speaker 1: in Australia can you explain.
Speaker 2: That I reckon pretty soon after I got to the
Speaker 2: point of the way I approached my work. Now, right
Speaker 2: after all that stuff happened, all that, you know, being
Speaker 2: told no in the room. It took a lot of work,
Speaker 2: and you know, I had to hear a lot of
Speaker 2: things that were very uncomfortable to hear from people I
Speaker 2: had my best interests at heart, but people who are like,
Speaker 2: i'll tell you why, you're ready to hear it, And
Speaker 2: I didn't want to hear it.
Speaker 3: But I wasn't ready to hear it.
Speaker 2: But I heard it, I was like, okay, And I
Speaker 2: think it's having this humility to accept that my ideas
Speaker 2: are no longer getting what I want out of life,
Speaker 2: and that this is the best ideas I've had so far,
Speaker 2: and the best ideas of has a very getting people
Speaker 2: to say no to me in the room when it
Speaker 2: comes to, you know, looking for work or something like that.
Speaker 2: So I might have to listen to someone else's ideas
Speaker 2: because mine, I'm out, this is the best I can do,
Speaker 2: and that.
Speaker 3: With anything right.
Speaker 2: And so once I started listening to those ideas and
Speaker 2: started actively going.
Speaker 3: Well, I know what happens if I do things this way.
Speaker 2: I'm going to actively try to do things this way
Speaker 2: because I already know how that works out, so I
Speaker 2: can always got back to that if I want.
Speaker 3: It's not going where I want to go, though, can
Speaker 3: me try this? See what happens?
Speaker 2: And that led to I mean, this is also part
Speaker 2: of fourteen and a half years or a little bit
Speaker 2: more of being sober. It's a very different way of
Speaker 2: approaching life and a very different wave of approaching my
Speaker 2: work and how thinking about how it is that I
Speaker 2: show up to a job and how it is who
Speaker 2: I get to be when I go and work with
Speaker 2: people on a project. And that started to shape pretty
Speaker 2: early in my sobriety, and it's definitely what became you know,
Speaker 2: what became who I then returned to Australia to work
Speaker 2: for ten weeks on season one, and then I think
Speaker 2: it was sixteen weeks on season two, which is.
Speaker 3: When I met Ordinary.
Speaker 2: And it was very different experience at work and I
Speaker 2: love you know, I loved it.
Speaker 3: It's very much a way of.
Speaker 2: A There's a cover band that's created out of a
Speaker 2: bunch of southern Northern Californian punk bands called Me First
Speaker 2: in the GIMMI gimmis, and it was very previous to
Speaker 2: stopping drinking musing. That was definitely that, all right, I
Speaker 2: was definitely this. But now I if I could show
Speaker 2: up to work and my only my only goal is
Speaker 2: to be just the most professional person that I can be,
Speaker 2: and I just want to try to make everyone else's
Speaker 2: day as easy as it can be, all Right.
Speaker 3: I kind of got this from when I first worked
Speaker 3: in television. I was twenty five.
Speaker 2: I've got a hired channel V which is now no
Speaker 2: longer existing music channel, and my boss, who I met
Speaker 2: for my first ever interview, she goes, right, what I
Speaker 2: want for you when you leave here, for people to say,
Speaker 2: where the fuck did you come from? And that kind
Speaker 2: of and that's just the way that they hired people.
Speaker 2: That's what they wanted for every employee was we just
Speaker 2: want you to grow so much that when you leave here,
Speaker 2: people are what And that's kind of what I It
Speaker 2: took me a while to kind of understand and remember that,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the kind of thing that I want
Speaker 2: to be. And so if I can be that for
Speaker 2: people and just make everyone else's day on set as
Speaker 2: easy as possible, what am I doing? I'm standing in
Speaker 2: the right spot, because when you're in television, you can't
Speaker 2: just be everywhere.
Speaker 3: You've got to be where the cameras are going. You know,
Speaker 3: you got to do it.
Speaker 2: You don't mess around with your microphone, Know your words,
Speaker 2: Know exactly what the producers and the editorial team wanting
Speaker 2: to get out of this exact moment. Know exactly where
Speaker 2: you're going next, what you just come from. Once, if
Speaker 2: you fixed your hair and your wardrobe, don't touch it.
Speaker 3: Don't touch your hair again.
Speaker 2: Don't touch your clothes again because others, someone's going to
Speaker 2: have to come sort it out and then nail it
Speaker 2: and then they go, oh, we're done, that's lunch everyone.
Speaker 2: You're like, great, And if I do all those things
Speaker 2: for all these people, what am I to me doing.
Speaker 2: I'm actually I end up doing a really great job.
Speaker 2: But I'm not doing it because I want to look great.
Speaker 2: I'm doing it because I want us all to have
Speaker 2: a great day and because we all make this thing together.
Speaker 2: You know, I just happen to be the person that
Speaker 2: people see. But when you're making a show like that,
Speaker 2: there's something like mask Man, there's like one hundred and
Speaker 2: six people on the call sheet and without one of them,
Speaker 2: the show doesn't go and without one of them doing
Speaker 2: absolutely everything at the right moment in time, along with
Speaker 2: the other one hundred and five people moving like a
Speaker 2: super mechanical, very complicated gearbox, the show doesn't work and
Speaker 2: so everyone's got to do their thing.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you while you're about gender
Speaker 1: politics because you're a big champion of women, and that
Speaker 1: was evident on the show, and I know is very
Speaker 1: much evident as you've just really talked about a lot
Speaker 1: of those people that you've supported and nurtured have been
Speaker 1: women who have now moved on to really amazing careers.
Speaker 1: I loved The Bachelor Australia. I remember every moment of
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. I thought Bachelor was pretty sexist format, but
Speaker 1: I couldn't look away. And what I found is that
Speaker 1: the gender dynamics have been amazing because first of all,
Speaker 1: it felt like the women stopped competing against each other
Speaker 1: and became friends. And we've actually seen through all of
Speaker 1: the different incarnations of the Bachelor that started to be
Speaker 1: replicated on screen as well as off screen. But also
Speaker 1: the women then went on and I would argue really
Speaker 1: sort of changed the face of Australian media. As we know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the women that came through that show
Speaker 1: have big careers now. The ones that have sat here
Speaker 1: opposite me, for instance, in the last eighteen months, have
Speaker 1: included Abby Chatfield, Brittany Hockley, Georgia love Brook Blurton.
Speaker 3: I can see where you're trying to go.
Speaker 2: But for any cultural product to work, it needs to
Speaker 2: be relatable to the people who are consuming that cultural product.
Speaker 2: You know, you would not want to put a primetime
Speaker 2: TV show about the Bundesliga on in Australia because culturally
Speaker 2: domestic German football isn't I mean, we understand it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's the ball that goes in there. People get excited,
Speaker 2: but it's not related to who we are. Anything that's
Speaker 2: on television, as much as we probably don't want to
Speaker 2: admit it, even the really grubby ones that people you know,
Speaker 2: watch for shaden freuder purposes.
Speaker 3: It reflects who we are as a community.
Speaker 2: So you mentioned the word sexist and you won't mention
Speaker 2: the word gender politics. I think that is in itself
Speaker 2: is a reflection on where we are as a community
Speaker 2: or where we were as a community in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 2: and that begins a conversation that we need to kind
Speaker 2: of have And so I think I'm really grateful that.
Speaker 3: If there's anything about you know, formats.
Speaker 2: Like that, is they they allow you to almost Trojan
Speaker 2: Horse conversations that the otherwise wouldn't have. So dr Amy
Speaker 2: Tunique is in brook Blatant season, doctor Ami thy Nich
Speaker 2: was a Brook's best mate, is Brook's best mate and
Speaker 2: thirteen words She asked both the final two if I
Speaker 2: asked you what country you grew up on or will
Speaker 2: you live right now?
Speaker 3: Could you tell me what it was?
Speaker 2: And both of them said no, that simple question made
Speaker 2: it into primetime television. This is years before the voice
Speaker 2: referendum or anything like that. That in itself, framed in
Speaker 2: that direction, was like, actually, I don't know, huh, And
Speaker 2: now you kind of having a conversation about I guess, yeah,
Speaker 2: there would have been people here and that hill and
Speaker 2: that stream and you know that bay or whatever. Yeah, ah,
Speaker 2: whichever way you feel about this, at least it opens
Speaker 2: your mind up to these things. And so TV formats
Speaker 2: like that allow us to make questions and question perhaps
Speaker 2: moral norms that we have always had, you know, when
Speaker 2: it comes to gender politics, as as the mother of sons,
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I am very, very
Speaker 2: interested in masculinity and how we might be able to
Speaker 2: frame masculinity. And the conversation that I had with Harry
Speaker 2: Garside on the podcast this week, we got right into
Speaker 2: it and he's an amazing guy, wonderful, wonderful man. We've
Speaker 2: done and in the last thirty years, fifty definitely last
Speaker 2: thirty years, we have done amazingly as a community. Is
Speaker 2: everyone room to move?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Yet fifty years ago, and that's my lifetime, nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: four I was born. You can go from what was
Speaker 2: that to a woman can be a CEO, a mother, hot, sultry,
Speaker 2: powerfully sexy, not sexy at all, clam drab, entrepreneur, all
Speaker 2: of these things at once, none of these things at once,
Speaker 2: and they're all We have permission for all of it, all.
Speaker 3: Right, we have names for all of it.
Speaker 2: I we mentioned before we started rolling, but I gave
Speaker 2: a high and a cuddle to one of like the
Speaker 2: full megapower humans of like she's unbelievable. She works in
Speaker 2: this building and she would not have ever had that job,
Speaker 2: you know, fifty years ago, never would It wouldn't be like, oh, really,
Speaker 2: we're going to walk on the Moon's true luck, buddy.
Speaker 2: And but yet, so we've expanded the definition of what
Speaker 2: it means to be a woman in our community, Yet
Speaker 2: the definition of what it is to be a man
Speaker 2: in our community.
Speaker 3: Is like I am alone wolf that eats what I.
Speaker 1: Kill or.
Speaker 3: And there's no in between.
Speaker 2: And if you give men nowhere to go, if you
Speaker 2: give men nowhere to to exist in this space, then
Speaker 2: what happens right where? But normal, you know, all those
Speaker 2: things I mentioned, all those mentioned things I mentioned before
Speaker 2: are absolutely normal, healthy expressions of femininity.
Speaker 3: There are absolutely normal, healthy expressions of masculinity as well.
Speaker 3: But if we label them as as it's toxic.
Speaker 2: No, it's just that's literal and not And boys being
Speaker 2: boys has been like there's that's a phrase that's kind
Speaker 2: of been misconstrued in recent times. Like and I'm sure
Speaker 2: you would have known this, like when g was little,
Speaker 2: she's twenty now, it was before I got there, but
Speaker 2: she was two tuos and fairies and from day.
Speaker 3: Dot right before Wolfgang could walk.
Speaker 2: Right, he's just like walking up to stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: and orders like what what the what? Like bambam as
Speaker 2: of Flinstone's character from the sixties, but oh yeah, boys,
Speaker 2: that's boys. They just pushed stuff over and each other,
Speaker 2: and it is what it means to be with that
Speaker 2: chromosotal you know, hormonal makeup. It's a different behavior set
Speaker 2: to what little girls are. Yet if we label that
Speaker 2: as bad, where he's just being him in the same
Speaker 2: way that the tutuos and the fairies are giving, teaching
Speaker 2: him how to deal with it, teaching how to handle it,
Speaker 2: teaching you how to do what he can with it
Speaker 2: before he gets to adult size at the age of
Speaker 2: twelve or thirteen with the same brain of an eight
Speaker 2: year old is vitally important.
Speaker 3: I remember what it was like to how old your kids.
Speaker 1: Now Marbo's are fifteen and thirteen, right.
Speaker 2: So you know one summer they were fiftep and then
Speaker 2: the next summer like, oh, you're essentially driving a D
Speaker 2: nine bulldozer when you don't even have a learners permit.
Speaker 3: You have this enormous suit of.
Speaker 2: Like, suddenly, I remember what it was like you suddenly
Speaker 2: in six months you have fifteen kilos heavier. You have
Speaker 2: a tussle with your brother and you put him through
Speaker 2: a wall. You didn't mean to, but oh I didn't
Speaker 2: know that I had this now, and if you haven't
Speaker 2: been taught what to do with that, that's you can
Speaker 2: get yourself in a shit ton of trouble. And if
Speaker 2: we're labeling all of that is bad, well part of it,
Speaker 2: some of it's normal, and it's like helping out young
Speaker 2: men understand, you know, what responsibility comes with this and
Speaker 2: and how.
Speaker 3: To be with it.
Speaker 2: But if we label all of it is bad, then
Speaker 2: who they are is bad, and then what do they
Speaker 2: get And then we start to driving them in these
Speaker 2: weird dark corners where someone's.
Speaker 3: Going, You're just fine. The rest of the world's shit.
Speaker 3: You know, you're in the really dangerous YouTube years.
Speaker 2: You're in the years where your sons will be fed
Speaker 2: shit on YouTube that you would never approve of, but
Speaker 2: they look at it and go, oh, he's got cool cars,
Speaker 2: those chicks are height. Oh yeah, I'll grab that PDF,
Speaker 2: Yeah I want that, and he, you know, he says,
Speaker 2: I'm all right.
Speaker 3: Like because it's been hijacked.
Speaker 2: Because as young men, Maggie Dent talks about this quite
Speaker 2: a bit, we are wired to seek out a father
Speaker 2: age mentor that is not related to us. So we're
Speaker 2: wired to look for someone. Some people can be a teacher,
Speaker 2: it could be a football coach, you know. But if
Speaker 2: those people aren't around, we'll just start following the instructions
Speaker 2: of another person who's around our parents' age.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at that era, and it's so dangerous.
Speaker 1: There's a vacuum for role models. Someone will fill it.
Speaker 1: And coming up, Osha opens up about what it's like
Speaker 1: living with chronic pain and what's next post The Bachelor.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because you have these really important conversations
Speaker 1: on your podcast Better than Yesterday. And one of the
Speaker 1: things you've also discussed on your podcast over the years, Osha,
Speaker 1: is your experience with chronic pain as a result of osteoarthritis,
Speaker 1: had surgery hit replacement. I believe in twenty twenty, wanted
Speaker 1: to ask how I imagine that experience of chronic pain has
Speaker 1: been a big influence in a new documentary you've got
Speaker 1: coming up on SBS, A World of Pain, which looks
Speaker 1: into people who have suffered chronic pain, and they're exploring
Speaker 1: alternative and remedies chronic pain. I mean, if you haven't
Speaker 1: lived with it, it's something that it's very hard to understand.
Speaker 1: You have lived with it, tell me about how that
Speaker 1: has informed your experience of wanting to share these stories.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, we talked about the reality stuff that I've
Speaker 2: been a part of making. But I'm an award winning
Speaker 2: documentary filmmaker. The first film that we made, me and
Speaker 2: my production partners, a leon one like The Oscar of Asia,
Speaker 2: won the Asian Film Academy, like it's Hugh among It's
Speaker 2: the one we made The Matter of Love and Death.
Speaker 2: And so, you know, these things help getting a second
Speaker 2: one off the ground. So when it came to making
Speaker 2: a second one, I was staggered with how much chronic
Speaker 2: and persistent paying costs our economy each year. It's not
Speaker 2: like one hundred and thirty nine billion dollars is astounding,
Speaker 2: like the amount of money that is lost in productivity alone,
Speaker 2: And not that there aren't humans at the base of
Speaker 2: all of these absolutely human story at the bottom of
Speaker 2: every single part of it. But you know, we are
Speaker 2: a you know, so many services in our country are
Speaker 2: funded by taxpayers. We need to be mindful of how
Speaker 2: we spend that money, and like you want to stop
Speaker 2: wastage everywhere, Like what goodness, this is something that needs
Speaker 2: to be looked at. And it's because I've been through
Speaker 2: some pretty n early stuff I got really lucky in
Speaker 2: my life. I got really lucky with my career. I
Speaker 2: got really lucky with Audrey, my wife, and I.
Speaker 3: Got osteosrits in my thirties. I got lucky with that.
Speaker 2: And because I'm a you know, white Australian mail I
Speaker 2: heard the first doctor say, yeah, your hips. He put
Speaker 2: the X ray on. The thing went hips cooked, dishes.
Speaker 2: Come and see me ten years ago. Yeah, you'll need
Speaker 2: a replacement. You're gonna have stop running. And at the time,
Speaker 2: I'm running ten k's every day. This is what I did.
Speaker 2: I just ran ten k's over it. I'd run a
Speaker 2: half marathon on the weekends just for fun. Just that
Speaker 2: was my run on the weekend. It's just twenty one
Speaker 2: k's trail. And so I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, And
Speaker 2: I just kept running and I kept hurting. So I
Speaker 2: want to go see another doctor. Went to go see
Speaker 2: another you get another MRI. I can see another specialist,
Speaker 2: same same, you need a hipoplaces. By the time I
Speaker 2: go to the fourth doctor, I'm like, Okay, maybe maybe
Speaker 2: I do need to stop running because this is not
Speaker 2: stopping hurting and it's really bad.
Speaker 3: And they just basically say you when you can't sleep
Speaker 3: through the night anymore. Come come see me. And Wolf
Speaker 3: had just got.
Speaker 2: Born, and I knew how much running around I had
Speaker 2: to do. You don't want to be the old dad,
Speaker 2: is like, you go kick the balls on. I'll be
Speaker 2: here going with a hot pack and my stories.
Speaker 3: So the fuck it. I get it done.
Speaker 2: And look, every surgery's got risk. I'm willing to accept risk.
Speaker 2: I ride bicycle wherever I can to commute, and so
Speaker 2: I'm willing to accept the risk of surgery. Low risk
Speaker 2: doesn't mean no risk. And these things just happened. Then
Speaker 2: nobody's fault. They just happened, and everybody did the right
Speaker 2: thing along the way.
Speaker 3: But there was a complication with my first surgery, and
Speaker 3: I didn't know.
Speaker 2: We couldn't figure it out for a long time. Just
Speaker 2: the pain was getting worse and worse and worse and
Speaker 2: worse and worse. And the way it starts to affect
Speaker 2: you with chronic pain and the plane that I was experiencing,
Speaker 2: is that it's very noisy in your head dealing with
Speaker 2: this all the time, and you start your window of
Speaker 2: tolerance for dealing with any other kind of frustration starts
Speaker 2: to diminish, almost to know nothing at all, and I would.
Speaker 3: You said, I could swear.
Speaker 2: So I'm dealing with this feeling in my body and
Speaker 2: I'm walking around with what the fuck did you say
Speaker 2: on my face?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Because I'm like I aged significantly in that time. The
Speaker 2: pain line it's got etched into my face. But what
Speaker 2: happens then is like Audrey something like, ah, you know,
Speaker 2: parents coming down for the weekend. Can you get the
Speaker 2: sheets and put it on the bed, And she would
Speaker 2: look at me for my response, and I've got just
Speaker 2: written on my face.
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2: But because I've got that on my face and I'm
Speaker 2: dealing with the pain in my body, it comes out
Speaker 2: and it's tinged with this antagonist like it's not there,
Speaker 2: but it is.
Speaker 3: It's coming from a different place, but they don't know that.
Speaker 2: And then you're off and it became really clear that
Speaker 2: my relationship is not going to survive this.
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 2: Was going to the point where I was having you know,
Speaker 2: when you take a toy off a toddler who you
Speaker 2: just said like six times like no mate, I'm going up,
Speaker 2: it's bedtime, and they get that post meltdown spasm in
Speaker 2: their diaphragm and they go they do that.
Speaker 3: So that was happening. My diaphram was spasmy, and I.
Speaker 2: Was like, I can't live like this, and it was
Speaker 2: just agonizing by the end of it, and so I
Speaker 2: just I was desperate. I would have amputated if I could,
Speaker 2: Like it was that bad and I didn't want to amputate. Well,
Speaker 2: the next best thing is get a nerve block. I
Speaker 2: had some surgery on my hand once and they basically
Speaker 2: put a nerve block in my shoulder.
Speaker 3: I couldn't feel my armor, Like, let's do that.
Speaker 2: So I called out a pain clinic and they must
Speaker 2: have heard the same thing and my voice like, okay,
Speaker 2: then maybe you can come.
Speaker 3: I've spoken to the doctor. He can come and see you.
Speaker 2: After he finished his opera each day, so I was
Speaker 2: the only person in the surgery. He'd open up at
Speaker 2: five point thirty. I had to open the doors and
Speaker 2: everything to come and see me.
Speaker 3: Examined me.
Speaker 2: He goes, I could do it. You definitely need it.
Speaker 2: I could do it next Thursday. That the next time
Speaker 2: I got a slot. It's ten days. Can you last?
Speaker 2: But you need to get a referral for this. Because
Speaker 2: we happened very quickly.
Speaker 3: I called them my GP. The next day, I said,
Speaker 3: I need a referral for this and then get a
Speaker 3: nerve block.
Speaker 2: But it's essentially I want someone with a massive needle
Speaker 2: fill the ketamine to shove it into my lateral fram
Speaker 2: wil coutaneous nerve and turn off my leg I do
Speaker 2: not want.
Speaker 3: To feel it anymore. That's a desperate move.
Speaker 2: And she went okay, and GPS are the unsung heroes
Speaker 2: of Australia, the Australian medical system.
Speaker 3: She's a made.
Speaker 2: She goes, okay, all right, I know it sounds like
Speaker 2: it really hurts. I'll give you the real and you
Speaker 2: can always do that, but I just want you to
Speaker 2: go see this other guy for me, okay. And it's
Speaker 2: like I was saying before, you know, like someone else's ideas.
Speaker 2: I was out of ideas, and I'm like, all right,
Speaker 2: I'll take any ideas you got.
Speaker 3: So I wanted to go see this guy and he kind.
Speaker 2: Of explained to me things that amplification that can happen
Speaker 2: with pain signals and sensitization which can happen with just
Speaker 2: benign signals. And because I've been in pain for so long,
Speaker 2: your brain starts to do funky things with just a
Speaker 2: regular sensation, and what feels like a normal sensation is
Speaker 2: actually your brain sees it as a massive danger signal.
Speaker 2: And then I get these massive spikes of agony caused
Speaker 2: by my wife trying to cuddle me. Flinching away from
Speaker 2: a cuddle is not good for your relationship, but it
Speaker 2: hurts all right, Like Okay, So I ended up going
Speaker 2: to see a pain psychologist who's amazing me. So long
Speaker 2: to get to go see her because she's very busy,
Speaker 2: and it's not her real name, but it's kind of funny.
Speaker 2: Let's say her name was Myrtle, you know it, old
Speaker 2: lady name, but she was twenty seven or twenty eight.
Speaker 3: It's like, wow, did you end up with like an
Speaker 3: old lady name? It was wild that's not her real name, but.
Speaker 2: She taught me so much about how to identify the
Speaker 2: difference between pain signals that were actually caused by what
Speaker 2: was going on physically with me and pain signals which
Speaker 2: were being created as an amplified kind of response to
Speaker 2: what was going on in my body. And when she
Speaker 2: told me this, I was like, I've got to tell
Speaker 2: more people about this stuff, because the ones that were
Speaker 2: being invented by my brain, which feel as real as
Speaker 2: everything else.
Speaker 3: The drug.
Speaker 2: You can take all the drugs you want, but they
Speaker 2: stopped working before those paining signals get created, so the
Speaker 2: parts of your brain that they turn off to make
Speaker 2: the pain go away, they don't even. So you can
Speaker 2: take all this stuff and turn yourself when it was on,
Speaker 2: but you're still going to hurt.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, man, we got to talk about this.
Speaker 2: We've got these things are getting prescribed left and right.
Speaker 2: People are wanting them. Because the other reason I really
Speaker 2: wanted to make this documentary is our relationship to pain
Speaker 2: is I think it's irrational, all right, because we're taught
Speaker 2: as children pain is the worst thing ever. If you
Speaker 2: feel enough of it, you get a band aid. If
Speaker 2: it's bad enough, my and dad, well you know hervers
Speaker 2: around will come. If it's really bad, we will call
Speaker 2: a phone number that any phone.
Speaker 3: No matter what network you're on.
Speaker 2: It'll connect to a satellite if need be, and a
Speaker 2: car will come screaming through on Abehool with lights and
Speaker 2: signs blaring, and or a helicopter will show up and
Speaker 2: take you to a big, fat building full of people
Speaker 2: who are experts in making this thing go away. Because
Speaker 2: this is like has to be avoided no matter what.
Speaker 2: But pain is actually quite important. There's parts of it
Speaker 2: that can be unhealthy. There's levels of it that can
Speaker 2: be bad. But the idea that we should experience life
Speaker 2: with no pain at all isn't a rational ideas because
Speaker 2: it's important to feel pain, like emotional pain, Like if
Speaker 2: I say something terrible to somebody, I will feel an
Speaker 2: empathic oh.
Speaker 3: You know. Oh that's a signal that I've done about
Speaker 3: and we learn from it.
Speaker 2: Right, if I touch a hot plate, I shouldn't do
Speaker 2: that ever again in my.
Speaker 3: Life, all right, if I didn't have pain, you know,
Speaker 3: pain is really exactly.
Speaker 1: It exists for a reason. It's just chronic stress and fear. Well,
Speaker 1: chronic stress is a problem. Stress and fear exists for
Speaker 1: a reason because they protect people, They keep us alive.
Speaker 1: It's when they become chronic that it becomes a problem.
Speaker 3: So I wanted to this is where I wanted to
Speaker 3: explore from, right.
Speaker 2: I wanted to explore from this place because and so
Speaker 2: I came to the guys that learned saying, we need
Speaker 2: to make we need to explore this and because this
Speaker 2: seems to be the answer that a lot of people
Speaker 2: think this is where it stops. I feel this thing.
Speaker 2: I don't like this thing. I want this drug end
Speaker 2: a story like, well, what does your life become?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: I'd mad people with chronic pain who just carried on?
Speaker 2: How do you even do that?
Speaker 3: How do you as a block in my life? And
Speaker 3: neck injury since ninety ninety nine? What was it?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: He goes, it's like I've got a headache, like all
Speaker 3: the time?
Speaker 2: Oh that you can that it's possible to have life
Speaker 2: with this sensation?
Speaker 1: How do they do that? When you were wondering how
Speaker 1: do they do that? You've looked at you.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I can tell you now, like I ended
Speaker 2: up having. In the end, I needed three surgeries. And
Speaker 2: it's been a little over two years since the second
Speaker 2: one just could have just gone yesterday. Actually, I since
Speaker 2: the third one. It's been just over two years. And
Speaker 2: I am there is a sensation in my body as
Speaker 2: I speak to you, that there's a discomfort. If I
Speaker 2: fixated on it, it'd be pain. But it's something that
Speaker 2: I'm I'm okay with it. It's okay that it's there.
Speaker 2: My relationship to it is the thing that I know
Speaker 2: that I can change. I've had all the scams I've seen.
Speaker 2: All the doctors are like, you know, this is the
Speaker 2: stuff that I'm still doing rehab. And it was a
Speaker 2: long time that I was declining. So it's a long
Speaker 2: hike in as a long hike out. So I'm still
Speaker 2: in discomfort right now sitting talking to you. But it's
Speaker 2: okay because my ability to change my relationship with it
Speaker 2: is a thing that I really really worked on, and
Speaker 2: that's amazing.
Speaker 3: Not everybody gets to do that.
Speaker 2: In the documentary, we speak with and I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: we've got to speak with someone Atlanta.
Speaker 3: She's suffers just us astonishingly.
Speaker 2: Astonishingly like unbelievably powerful, and Demetrios is pain, like the
Speaker 2: way she describes it is, Yeah, and I'm glad we
Speaker 2: got to talk about it. Like the doctors we spoke
Speaker 2: to don't even know what causes it, like no, it
Speaker 2: just happens. Talk about getting a you know, a bad
Speaker 2: deal with the cards, like it is nobody's fault and
Speaker 2: it's horrid.
Speaker 3: And so we speak to someone who's so desperate.
Speaker 2: She ends up getting an implant in her spine to
Speaker 2: like the white noise machines that you put on to
Speaker 2: get your kids to sleep early on. Something like that,
Speaker 2: all right, something like that with I.
Speaker 1: Still use one myself. We all do. Actually, my house
Speaker 1: a pretty great.
Speaker 2: I have to know her, so I have it all
Speaker 2: the time. But the it's it's a little like that.
Speaker 2: But you know, the doctor explains it far better than
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: But you know it.
Speaker 2: There are I wanted to make a We got to
Speaker 2: make this documentary we made earlier. We got to make
Speaker 2: a hopeful film about suicide.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: I'd like to think we've made a hopeful film about
Speaker 2: chronic and persistent pain because it's.
Speaker 3: Such a big and scary thing for so many people.
Speaker 2: Like even the idea that oh you can, you can
Speaker 2: actually live a life that you value and do things
Speaker 2: that you love and move and play on the roll
Speaker 2: around on.
Speaker 3: The ground, do jiu jitsu with my son every Saturday morning.
Speaker 3: We roll around on the matter. He puts me in
Speaker 3: army locks.
Speaker 2: It's hilarious with these sensations in my body, and I
Speaker 2: can do both.
Speaker 1: It's okay, that's great, isn't it? From where you had
Speaker 1: come from, Gosh, and living with that where you couldn't
Speaker 1: distinguish between playing with your son and your wife hugging
Speaker 1: you in this awful pain.
Speaker 2: But it's important to remember that, you know, a big
Speaker 2: part of this is certainly with you know, physical pain,
Speaker 2: the kind of pain that I'm in. If you stop
Speaker 2: moving because your signals like, oh, we shouldn't move because
Speaker 2: it's going to hurt more. If you stop moving it,
Speaker 2: you end up exacerbating it because it is the movement
Speaker 2: that alleviates it.
Speaker 3: But we're kind of had to.
Speaker 2: We have to go around this little defense mechanism we've
Speaker 2: got of not moving the thing that hurts sometimes. I'm
Speaker 2: not an exercise physiologist, all right, I am. I'm not
Speaker 2: here to diagnose anybody. I'm just telling you what happened
Speaker 2: with me is that I knew my body wanted.
Speaker 3: Me to move less. But unless I move, the more
Speaker 3: it hurt. So yes, as long as I'm willing to
Speaker 3: be with.
Speaker 2: If anyone who's rehabed an injury knows, you've got to
Speaker 2: be willing to be with the discomfort of the rehab
Speaker 2: to regain the strength to get full motion and capacity back.
Speaker 2: And we just covered some stuff that is just amazing.
Speaker 2: People in Australia doing groundbreaking. Like I was saying before,
Speaker 2: we got ideas I met guy. There's two people I
Speaker 2: met on the show that are going to be billionaires,
Speaker 2: like without a.
Speaker 1: Doubt and great, because isn't it good if that is
Speaker 1: where for us as a country, our billions are going
Speaker 1: as opposed to, as you say, all the billions that
Speaker 1: we're investing in pain management, which isn't really well, we're
Speaker 1: not even spending it in pain management. We're more dealing
Speaker 1: in like sort of crisis management.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a backhand. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the word hope that you said, he's so
Speaker 1: powerful because for the millions of Australians that are either
Speaker 1: living in chronic pain, or living with somebody who's suffering
Speaker 1: from it, or just worrying about it coming for them
Speaker 1: one day, a documentary like this offers so much hope.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you. You're a little bit talked
Speaker 1: about your sobriety, and obviously you have been very open
Speaker 1: about having an addictive personality. Was that an added complication
Speaker 1: before you work through this and started getting this care
Speaker 1: and working with the pain psychologists for instance.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't quite agree with the idea of addictive personality.
Speaker 2: How would you well, the way that I would describe
Speaker 2: it is that there there are people who are more.
Speaker 3: At risk of addiction than others. All right, that's what
Speaker 3: That's how I put it.
Speaker 2: And I had, you know, I had, I broke a
Speaker 2: hand snowboarding twenty years ago and I got I was
Speaker 2: in North America and I got sent home with all
Speaker 2: these oxy cotones and I had this massive bottle of them,
Speaker 2: and I you know, found out later that you know,
Speaker 2: a long time after I stopped needing them the way
Speaker 2: I was using.
Speaker 3: Them, so far off label, someone will describe it as abuse.
Speaker 2: And similarly, like I did, I did an MCL when
Speaker 2: I was living in Los Angeles and the doctor just
Speaker 2: like just threw a whole big, massive bottle of Viking
Speaker 2: it at me. And the thing with that drug is
Speaker 2: it still hurts us that care and so you can
Speaker 2: kind of and it's like it was less than twelve
Speaker 2: weeks from when I was given that drug to when
Speaker 2: I was in my first you know, sobriety meeting, because.
Speaker 3: That was part of the big slide.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's been times my life when you know,
Speaker 2: other things, other pharmaceutical things have been not used the
Speaker 2: way they were intended by me. And so being able
Speaker 2: to go through surgery and stuff like that. I know,
Speaker 2: like in the same like if I check into a hotel,
Speaker 2: Like it's been fourteen and a half years, right, but
Speaker 2: I still if I check into a hotel, I'll be
Speaker 2: down at the desk and I'll be like, could you
Speaker 2: send someone up to take the booze out of the
Speaker 2: minibar please, Like, I'm not going to drink.
Speaker 3: It, but it's just it's just easier to not have
Speaker 3: it there.
Speaker 2: It takes up It's like a spinny beach ball on
Speaker 2: my computer. I'm like, it just takes off a bit
Speaker 2: of processing power that I would rather dedicate to work
Speaker 2: that I'm doing, or connecting with my family or whatever else.
Speaker 3: And so I know, like when I'm heading.
Speaker 2: Into this and you're having a chat with yourn ethetist,
Speaker 2: I have to say, listen, mate, you've got to know this.
Speaker 2: Da da da da da, And they go up, okay,
Speaker 2: and I'm able to I know the way things work
Speaker 2: in my body, And it's very much like an allergic
Speaker 2: reaction in that if you've ever had a kid adjacent
Speaker 2: to you that's got a peanut allergy, you wouldn't dare
Speaker 2: put anything near them, right, But if they started having
Speaker 2: a anaphyletic shock. You would say, excuse me, Timmy, can
Speaker 2: you please stop choking?
Speaker 3: Can you stop breathing?
Speaker 2: Please? Come on mate, Like, once that starts, I can't
Speaker 2: stop it until it's done. And so I know the
Speaker 2: best way to stop, to not have their action is
Speaker 2: to not put this thing in my body in the
Speaker 2: first place. Yet, when you post off and you've literally
Speaker 2: just had your femours sawn off by you know, a
Speaker 2: very skilled carpenter. With the drills and stuff they use,
Speaker 2: it's exactly the same shit you get down the hardware shop.
Speaker 3: It's got a different logo on the side. I'm sure
Speaker 3: it comes out the same factory, right, but they're in there.
Speaker 2: They use saws and drills and boring things and all
Speaker 2: kinds of things. There's one called a distal RUMA it's frightful.
Speaker 2: It's like a literally.
Speaker 1: It just sounds ominous.
Speaker 3: It's a multitool.
Speaker 2: It's like a multitool and just hollows out the inside
Speaker 2: of your femous. They can bang bank so they can
Speaker 2: bang the post in.
Speaker 1: That was uncannily good sound effect. By the way, I
Speaker 1: feel triggered.
Speaker 2: I wasn't awake from it, but I was the sing,
Speaker 2: So you're gonna need You're gonna need these strokes because
Speaker 2: you need to rest, all right. If you don't rest,
Speaker 2: you can't heal. And so I knew, and I've done
Speaker 2: the same, you know with other meds in the past.
Speaker 2: I gave the box to my wife, told the doctor
Speaker 2: about my history, and then I gave the box to
Speaker 2: my wife and I said, give me, give me one
Speaker 2: when you think I need it, don't give me one
Speaker 2: when I asked for it and that, and then then
Speaker 2: put it somewhere in the house, don't tell me.
Speaker 3: Where it is. And was that effect, Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely,
Speaker 3: because I talk about it in the film. You know
Speaker 3: it's still in there.
Speaker 2: You know, when that drug shows up in my body
Speaker 2: and I feel that drug coming on, like the old
Speaker 2: script just shows up and it can be powerful, and
Speaker 2: I know enough to go, wow, okay, you're still there.
Speaker 3: I'm glad I don't know where this box is.
Speaker 1: No, it's so true. And look, thanks like that answer,
Speaker 1: because it's why I wanted to ask about it, because
Speaker 1: I do think it is something when a person has
Speaker 1: it always prone to an addiction that I've seen people
Speaker 1: in my own life have to be really conscious of
Speaker 1: how they might work with pain medication because it is
Speaker 1: as you said, it is just like any other allergy or.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't make It doesn't discriminate. That's the thing.
Speaker 3: It doesn't discriminate.
Speaker 2: Look at any person in the public eye who has
Speaker 2: met a tragic end. All right, you cannot buy good
Speaker 2: mental health. It does not discriminate. Doesn't care who you are,
Speaker 2: It will come for you. Nobody is above it, all right.
Speaker 2: So the day you don't need to take, the day
Speaker 2: you don't need those massive, massive painkillers you got sent
Speaker 2: home from the hospital with, and you cool, just panotof you,
Speaker 2: Just take the box, go to the pharmacy, dispose of it,
Speaker 2: all right. Having that stuff lying around your house. It's
Speaker 2: not good for anybody, all right. That stuff is like
Speaker 2: it's dangerous stuff. You wouldn't leave an open bottle of
Speaker 2: terps lying around. So just every pharmacy will dispose.
Speaker 3: Of it for you.
Speaker 1: It is honestly a fantastic piece of work, a world
Speaker 1: of pain. It's lovely to have you back on Australian
Speaker 1: TV as well, or should.
Speaker 3: We've all been eighty seven? Glorious?
Speaker 1: You do you well? This is the thing. When we
Speaker 1: see you back in a regular spot. There's been chat
Speaker 1: that you might do Farmer Wants a Wife if you.
Speaker 3: Heard that right, Yeah, that started that.
Speaker 1: Well there's talk that Sam Armitage might be doing Golden Bachelor.
Speaker 2: For that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so then she's going to do a great job.
Speaker 3: I can't wait.
Speaker 2: So she signed all the people that make it, and
Speaker 2: I love the format and it's a great.
Speaker 1: So then that started the rumor mill that maybe Osha
Speaker 1: Ginsberg would step in his Farmer Wants a Wife.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. Look, I don't know, Like you're
Speaker 3: more than welcoming to have a conversation with me.
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm very busy my book deadline. I've
Speaker 2: got two books. I signed a two book deal, so
Speaker 2: the next one it's due really soon, working on it
Speaker 2: with an illustrator, so the workflow is somewhat complicated, but
Speaker 2: it's good.
Speaker 3: And then the next one's due early next year. So
Speaker 3: I'm very busy.
Speaker 2: So but look, you know what, if there's a compelling
Speaker 2: commercial offer, I'm willing to entertain.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, Osha Ginsburg has been an absolute delight
Speaker 1: talking to you today, and A World of Pain premiers
Speaker 1: at eight thirty pm on Thursday, the twenty first of
Speaker 1: November on SBS.
Speaker 3: No one watches stuff live, watch it on demand.
Speaker 1: Come on, we will have a link to SBS on
Speaker 1: to do that. Show notes.
Speaker 3: Nobody watches anything. This is what we need.
Speaker 1: Watch any want director, Okay, I'm here with my analog
Speaker 1: watch TX.
Speaker 3: That's all I want.
Speaker 1: You've got to watch footy live.
Speaker 3: I don't watch anything else.
Speaker 1: Idle winner of course at this moment, all of those moments.
Speaker 1: But you're right.
Speaker 3: I'll watch slow Horses as soon as I can. I
Speaker 3: don't want to bust it for me. This is true.
Speaker 1: You don't what to avoid spoilers. No is it an
Speaker 1: absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for your time. Osha Ginsburg.
Speaker 1: A World of Pain premiers at eight thirty pm on
Speaker 1: November twenty one on SBS and SBS on demand. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of
Speaker 1: the Stellar Podcast. We'd love it if you take a
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