WEBVTT - The best books of 2025

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven Am. Marie

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<v Speaker 1>Carty is a writer, broadcaster, and former panelist on the

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<v Speaker 1>ABC's First Tuesday Book Club. I've spent years listening to

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<v Speaker 1>her and reading her work. Mariek's passion and enthusiasm for

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<v Speaker 1>the books she loves is contagious. But she's also direct

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<v Speaker 1>and unapologetic when a book isn't for her, so you

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<v Speaker 1>always know that when she recommends something, it's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be worth your time. I couldn't be more thrilled to

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<v Speaker 1>be bringing you her favorite books of the year, a

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<v Speaker 1>ready made list of what to read this summer. Her

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<v Speaker 1>list starts with a sprawling novel about friendship and love

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<v Speaker 1>and winds its way through so many other huge themes grief, violence, war,

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<v Speaker 1>and how the Internet has ruined us. Today, Marie Carty

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<v Speaker 1>with her five favorite books of twenty twenty five. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>December twenty three. MARIEK.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 1>It's great to have you here, and I am very

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<v Speaker 1>excited to talk about books with you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so excited to chat books with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so tell me about the first one that you

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about.

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<v Speaker 3>Where do I want to start. I think I might

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<v Speaker 3>start with Eric Pukner's Dream State. It's a big novel.

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<v Speaker 3>It is fantastic. It's a novel about love. It's a

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<v Speaker 3>novel set over decades, which is one of my kind

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<v Speaker 3>of favorite ways to tell a narrative fiction. But it's

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<v Speaker 3>one of those ones that I went, Oh, my god,

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<v Speaker 3>has anyone heard of this fabulous? Because no one I

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<v Speaker 3>know is talking about it, And as a film and

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<v Speaker 3>television writer, I went, oh, I wonder if someone's got

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<v Speaker 3>the rights, I'll google it. And he's been featured on

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<v Speaker 3>Oprah's Book Club, the rights have been picked up by Apple,

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<v Speaker 3>it's been I don't know, directed by Emerald Fanel or something.

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<v Speaker 3>It's one of those it's not a secret. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>a secret. I think it made a bigger mark in

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<v Speaker 3>the States than it did here because it doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 3>to be a novel that amongst my big reader friends

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<v Speaker 3>they have picked up. But it is so fabulous and

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<v Speaker 3>everyone who's picked it up since adores it. It begins

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<v Speaker 3>on the precipice of a young couple about to get married,

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<v Speaker 3>Cec and Charlie. It's a book set in Montana, mostly

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<v Speaker 3>at Charlie's family holiday house. Charlie's best friend Garrett picks

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<v Speaker 3>cec up from the airport for the wedding, and thus

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<v Speaker 3>begins a journey between these three characters that spans decades

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<v Speaker 3>and love and loss and grief and children, and showing

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<v Speaker 3>us that who you are as a young person is

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<v Speaker 3>not set in stone. It shows change through characters, but

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<v Speaker 3>it's one of those books that shows change through climate

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<v Speaker 3>and environments so beautifully and subtly. I think often cli

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<v Speaker 3>fi can really beat us over the head, particularly people

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<v Speaker 3>who are interested in the degradation of climate. This is

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<v Speaker 3>handled so beautifully and subtly. You watch the environment kind

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<v Speaker 3>of fall apart as these lives fall apart. It's just

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<v Speaker 3>the most beautiful epic novel.

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<v Speaker 1>I also love an epic novel, something that really gives

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<v Speaker 1>you the chance to follow people cross generations and across lifetimes.

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<v Speaker 1>One of my recent favorites was The Beasting by Paul

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<v Speaker 1>Murray Ah from a couple of years ago. But tell

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<v Speaker 1>me a bit more about the ambition of this novel,

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<v Speaker 1>because it begins, I think with a kind of sort

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<v Speaker 1>of classic set up. There's a wedding being planned, there's

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<v Speaker 1>hints of a love triangle, but it moves far beyond.

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<v Speaker 3>That it does. And I mean just I adored the

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<v Speaker 3>Beasting as well, and I do think there is a

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<v Speaker 3>Venn diagram here that does cross over the corrections and

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<v Speaker 3>all of those books that are about big family dynamics,

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<v Speaker 3>and this, I suppose is about a love triangle, as

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<v Speaker 3>you said, and really unfolding these characters over time and

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<v Speaker 3>the way their lives overlap, the way their loves overlap.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess I love watching characters grow because it shows

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<v Speaker 3>us as we're growing and all that what we always feel,

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<v Speaker 3>we're fixed in a moment wherever we are right now

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<v Speaker 3>is who we are, is what we feel, is what

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<v Speaker 3>our love life will always be like, what our marriage

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<v Speaker 3>will always be like. And I think Eric so grandly

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<v Speaker 3>sweeps through that in a way that gets you into

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<v Speaker 3>the minute shave of these characters' minds and the absolute

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<v Speaker 3>stumbles they make, the missteps, the way they hurt each other.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, we're all growing old together. What a

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<v Speaker 3>gift it is to grow old together and to know

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<v Speaker 3>people over the course of time and all your misspent

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<v Speaker 3>youth and the bad decisions you made and the chaos

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<v Speaker 3>of your youth. I think he does it so deftly

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<v Speaker 3>and beautifully and in such a way that holds up

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<v Speaker 3>a mirror. I just thought it was such a wonderful book.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell me about your second pick, Well, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Think I want to talk about Shealdine Brooks Memorial Days,

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<v Speaker 3>which is a nonfiction of Geraldine Brooks. Oh one of

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<v Speaker 3>my favorite wonderful and it's a book about grief, which

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<v Speaker 3>can be a very private thing and mostly is a

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<v Speaker 3>very internal thing. And I always appreciate writers that we

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<v Speaker 3>admire turning themselves inside out and putting that grief on

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<v Speaker 3>the page. Shelaldine Brooks husband Tony Howitz, who was a

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<v Speaker 3>Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. They'd been married for thirty five

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<v Speaker 3>years American. He died very, very suddenly in DC on

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<v Speaker 3>Memorial Day. That's the title, and it's a real interrogation

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<v Speaker 3>of the nonlinear aspect of grief. It really does show

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<v Speaker 3>the kind of really overworked medical system and how the

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<v Speaker 3>humanity sometimes gets lost in those calls, and how she

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<v Speaker 3>receives that information, how she needs to access her husband's body.

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<v Speaker 3>But you see her in that fog of grief and

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<v Speaker 3>just going into organization mode, which is what a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people do in those circumstances. Tony was a public figure.

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<v Speaker 3>She has to arrange all the public memorials as well

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<v Speaker 3>as the funeral and the casket and all those things.

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<v Speaker 3>But she also looks at other cultures and how they grieve,

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<v Speaker 3>the rituals of grieving, which I think she doesn't feel

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<v Speaker 3>like she properly went through a ritual of grief. So

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<v Speaker 3>three years after Tony's death, she goes to Flinda's Island,

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<v Speaker 3>which is a place they've visited together off the coast

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<v Speaker 3>of Tasmania, and she looks at the history of Flinda's

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<v Speaker 3>Island and the Aboriginal history, the first nations, massacres that

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<v Speaker 3>have happened, and she really elegantly uses those kind of

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<v Speaker 3>practices to understand her own grief. They don't feel tacked on,

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<v Speaker 3>they don't feel like platitudes. It feels like she is

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<v Speaker 3>trying to understand grief and love and loss through opening

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<v Speaker 3>herself up to the world and opening herself up to

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<v Speaker 3>a sense of place and purpose. Grief is chaotic and

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<v Speaker 3>clumsy and frantic and feverish, and she feels all those

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<v Speaker 3>things she's lost in a fog. But ultimately she tries

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<v Speaker 3>to educate herself as much as one can to understand

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<v Speaker 3>this unimaginable thing that's happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, an old friend sends Marique the book he's

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<v Speaker 1>just written. What could possibly go wrong?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay? Number three, Well, I think I want to talk

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<v Speaker 3>about VJ. Karana's debut novel, The Passenger Seat. I've done

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<v Speaker 3>VJ for years. We were both at Triple J at

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<v Speaker 3>the same time a million years ago. He's a brilliant

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<v Speaker 3>human being, a kind interesting man. This is his first novel,

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<v Speaker 3>and he emailed me he said, can I send it

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<v Speaker 3>to you? And I went, okay. You know, I always

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<v Speaker 3>quite nervous when a friend says they're going to send

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<v Speaker 3>you their book. It is unbelievable. It is such a

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<v Speaker 3>stunning novel. It's about two young men, Teddy and Adam,

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<v Speaker 3>who they've disaffected. They go on a road trip together. Look,

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<v Speaker 3>I know it sounds kind of trying to go it's

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<v Speaker 3>about toxic masculinity, because isn't everything these days, But it

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<v Speaker 3>is a really subtle interrogation of all the forks in

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<v Speaker 3>the road that young men can go down, all the

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<v Speaker 3>decisions that they might have made at different points in

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<v Speaker 3>their life, how they end up in this quite claustrophobic

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<v Speaker 3>van together and what that trip looks like. I think

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<v Speaker 3>I've read it in three days. I couldn't put it down.

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<v Speaker 3>I kept gasping. It's very shocking, it's very sobering. But

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<v Speaker 3>VJ makes some incredible choices narratively, including a final chapter

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<v Speaker 3>which was the most stunning creative to see I think

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<v Speaker 3>editorial decision on his part to do so. Yeah, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>still awed by it.

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<v Speaker 1>And Kanana has said that this novel is based on

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<v Speaker 1>a real event, which I speak about without I suppose

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<v Speaker 1>getting into too much detail, but a real violent event

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<v Speaker 1>from twenty nineteen and when that happened.

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<v Speaker 2>There are a lot of questions about why, about the

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<v Speaker 2>motive that the people involved could have possibly had for

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<v Speaker 2>what unfolded. So to what extent does this book, I suppose,

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<v Speaker 2>try to answer that question of why violence happens, and

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<v Speaker 2>does it provide any answers.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's really deeply insightful. I mean, obviously I

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<v Speaker 3>often access my social education through fiction. I mean obviously

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<v Speaker 3>I read a lot of nonfiction and political news and

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<v Speaker 3>all that kind of stuff, But sometimes those dance think

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<v Speaker 3>pieces about toxic masculinity and why young men do the

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<v Speaker 3>things that they do, and you know, I fade out

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<v Speaker 3>a bit, whereas this is the most incisive view. These

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<v Speaker 3>two young men come from different family homes. There's a

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<v Speaker 3>great line from the book saying approaching the wrong person

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<v Speaker 3>with open hands can be fatal, and that speaks to

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of different characters in the book. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think it really searingly hones in on what it is

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<v Speaker 3>for someone who is a little lost, who is looking

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<v Speaker 3>for answers, who is standing there with open hands, and

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<v Speaker 3>they unfortunately take a step in the wrong direction. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's interesting that you say, I mean, it is the

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<v Speaker 3>kernel of it a real life event, but there's quite

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<v Speaker 3>a few real life events that we're not going to

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<v Speaker 3>mention in here that I'm remember saying of VJ, or

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<v Speaker 3>is this based on? And so I think he's pulled

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<v Speaker 3>together a lot of pieces of a lot of familiar

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<v Speaker 3>tragedies that have young men at the heart of them

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<v Speaker 3>and just kind of woven them into a really compelling story.

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<v Speaker 1>And would you call it an Australian book because VJ,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, what's more Australian than working at Triple J.

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<v Speaker 1>But he he's spent much of his career overseas, obviously

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK in Europe. So is there anything about

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<v Speaker 1>this that feels unique to Australia or is it more

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<v Speaker 1>of a universal experience.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so interesting because it's a road trip and he

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<v Speaker 3>writes about landscape really beautifully, and I guess, growing up

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia, my head immediately places in an Australian landscape.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's set really in America. The boys call their

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<v Speaker 3>mother's mom and they're heading on a road trip with

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<v Speaker 3>the intent to end up in Alaska. But you don't

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<v Speaker 3>feel completely melded in America. I think there is unfortunately

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<v Speaker 3>a universality to these two young men and the decisions

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<v Speaker 3>that they make, and I think the landscape becomes a

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<v Speaker 3>part of that. So really great book for anyone wanting,

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<v Speaker 3>as you said, to understand why some young men make

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<v Speaker 3>the decisions they do. I think this is more interesting

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<v Speaker 3>to me than listening to, say Joe Rogan's podcast. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>sure that's true again number four, So number four, I've

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<v Speaker 3>gone nonfit. I've gone Peter Beinart's Being Jewish After the

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<v Speaker 3>Destruction of Gaza, which is a book that was recommended

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<v Speaker 3>to me. He toured Australia this year. I think he

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<v Speaker 3>did quite a few events, did a few in conversations.

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<v Speaker 3>This book is really interesting. It's obviously from a progressive

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<v Speaker 3>Jewish perspective that really speaks to Jewish history, Jewish identity,

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<v Speaker 3>how a lot of Jewish people wrestle with a war

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<v Speaker 3>that is being waged ostensibly in their name. I found

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<v Speaker 3>it really interesting because it begins with a note to

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<v Speaker 3>my former friend and Peter speaking about some a friend

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<v Speaker 3>that he's lost over this issue, which as we know,

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<v Speaker 3>is hugely emotional for people, and people get very distressed

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<v Speaker 3>about it. I've lost some friends over this. I was

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<v Speaker 3>looking to educate myself. I was looking to understand different voices. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 3>there's some great new books by Palestinian writers this year.

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<v Speaker 3>Sarah m Salle and Randa abdel Fatar have both got

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<v Speaker 3>books out. I found this one, Peter's book to be

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<v Speaker 3>incredibly informative, incredibly compassionate. He has said, there's a great

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<v Speaker 3>quote what he said, by reading these words, you have

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<v Speaker 3>agreed to walk with me. And I think that is

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<v Speaker 3>such an invitational way to begin this book. You sit

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<v Speaker 3>down a new walk with him and you listen. I

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<v Speaker 3>gave it to my father, who had some quite different

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<v Speaker 3>views than me on what was happening in Gaza, and

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<v Speaker 3>he found it very moving as well. And I think

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<v Speaker 3>I would encourage anybody who is looking to have more

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<v Speaker 3>gentle conversations or ways to access this information to pick

0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:36.760
<v Speaker 3>it up.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up a book so violently disgusting, you may want

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<v Speaker 1>to hose down afterwards. Okay, an incredible mix here so far,

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<v Speaker 1>do you have a fifth pick?

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<v Speaker 3>So the reason I'm interested in this book is my

0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 3>friend Tase said, you have to read this book. I

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.800
<v Speaker 3>found it so violently disgusting. I wanted to be hosed

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<v Speaker 3>down after reading it. And I'm like, I'm listening and

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<v Speaker 3>so like a moth to a flame, of course, I

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.680
<v Speaker 3>went to this book and it's Tony Tulla Timody's Rejection.

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:20.720
<v Speaker 3>It's a series of short fictional essays from really gross,

0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.680
<v Speaker 3>unlikable characters. I saw a great comment on it saying

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<v Speaker 3>it's like being inside the Internet, and I think that's

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<v Speaker 3>exactly what it's like. It covers in cells. It's really

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<v Speaker 3>violent characters. I mean, it's cringe culture. It speaks to

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<v Speaker 3>how isolated and how set in our worldview we get

0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:45.080
<v Speaker 3>when we sit alone with a device. I found near

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<v Speaker 3>the end of the book, he started to doubt himself.

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 3>There's two pieces at the end of the book where

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<v Speaker 3>I thought, you're second guessing yourself now, and you're trying

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<v Speaker 3>to out clever yourself and get in front of the

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<v Speaker 3>criticism that you're going to get for this book. And

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<v Speaker 3>I thought that diminished it quite a lot for me.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought he showed the puppet master's strings, and he

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<v Speaker 3>showed his self consciousness about all the bold work he

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<v Speaker 3>was trying to do, and I thought it really took

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<v Speaker 3>away from the abject disgusting power that he'd put in

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<v Speaker 3>the previous essays.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I haven't decided yet whether or not I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to read that one, but the other four on your

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<v Speaker 1>list sound like excellent choices for the summer. Marie, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for your time. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>Ruby a big fan