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Speaker 1: Good a team. Welcome to another installment the View Project.

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Speaker 1: To taps his echo chamber, It's Melissa, Melissa, Hello, how

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Speaker 1: are you? Yeah good? I feel like I've done this

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Speaker 1: very recently. Why would that deja vou vibe be happening?

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Speaker 1: Do you think? Because your microphone was doing something really

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Speaker 1: strange and so we thought we might need to redo

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Speaker 1: the intro quickly. So it makes sense that is true.

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Speaker 1: Sorry for interrupting there as I do so we've already done.

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Speaker 1: The interview with Farmer Dave. He was bloody amazing. I

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Speaker 1: have a big man crush on him, and I do

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Speaker 1: have that capacity as we all know. But he is

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Speaker 1: so fucking great. I thought he'd be really good, but

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Speaker 1: it starts off good and it gets better and better.

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Speaker 1: I love this episode he's doing, like his backstory, his

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Speaker 1: story with his story growing up on farms. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to ruin it, but there are so many good

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Speaker 1: things in here. The work that he's done with animals,

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Speaker 1: he's love for animals, and now the incredible work that

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Speaker 1: he's doing with kids between twelve and seventeen who are

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Speaker 1: really struggling, very very hands on at the cold face. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: beautiful conversation beautiful dude doing awesome work. I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: you will be inspired by him. Melissa, can I can

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Speaker 1: I go now?

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Speaker 2: Am I? A? We?

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Speaker 1: A we clear? We will start the show now, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's start the show. Farmer Dave, Melissa and well, what's

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Speaker 1: his actual name, Dave Graham? I think, okay, farmer Dave. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know where to start. I'm thinking, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at all your stuff. I'm like, that's quite the

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Speaker 1: fucking bio. It's not your typical LinkedIn bio. I'll give

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Speaker 1: you that. Yeah, why don't you give us your bio?

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Speaker 1: Why don't you let me get in the jacuzzi? And

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Speaker 1: why don't you give us whatever you want wherever you

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Speaker 1: want to go, give us the David Graham slash Farmer

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Speaker 1: Dave bio that you reckon the world might be interested,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that'd be interested in all of it. But

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Speaker 1: just where.

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Speaker 2: I go, where I'm at right now is helping kids

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Speaker 2: get back on track. And you know, sometimes it's dealing

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Speaker 2: with five kids in a day, sometimes dealing with twenty

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Speaker 2: kids in a day, and whatever they need, I'm there

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Speaker 2: for them. And I think my bios kind of got

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Speaker 2: me in that stead. I grew up, like so many

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Speaker 2: Australians of the older generations, on a station about forteen

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Speaker 2: hours northwest of Sydney, about six hours west of Brisbane,

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Speaker 2: near near a town called Gundawindy. So not your typical childhood,

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Speaker 2: but the most splendid childhood of just no town for

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Speaker 2: one hundred kilometers and just growing up with your dogs,

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Speaker 2: your horses, and that was my job, is just looking

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Speaker 2: after all of them for a fairly large cattle and

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Speaker 2: cropping station about one hundred thousand acres, And was youngest

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Speaker 2: of eleven kids, so I was kind of a forgotten

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Speaker 2: one because by the time you get to eleven, you

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Speaker 2: kind of over it when it comes to parenting. So

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Speaker 2: my parents were quite elderly and kind of over it

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Speaker 2: and tired.

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Speaker 1: Quite elderly and tired by the time they got to

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Speaker 1: you exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Dad, every time he bought another farm, he'd

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Speaker 2: have another kid to make sure that he's got slave

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Speaker 2: labor in the future to run it. So yeah, it

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Speaker 2: was an awesome childhood. And I was so fortunate to

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Speaker 2: be able to learn from your old stockmen and these

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Speaker 2: guys that have been connected to the land for their

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Speaker 2: whole lives and their whole existence and really built me

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Speaker 2: ready for a really well rounded education in the bush,

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Speaker 2: and then went off to boarding school, like you all

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Speaker 2: have to do, and that was a real sledge hammer

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Speaker 2: to the face because my first boarding school was co ed.

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Speaker 2: But then I went to another one which was an

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Speaker 2: international school and which was fantas but didn't quite have

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Speaker 2: the education that my dad wanted. He wanted a military

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Speaker 2: type education for me because he thought that I was

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Speaker 2: learning too much, and so he sent me to an

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Speaker 2: all boys grammar school and that was a real sledgehammer.

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Speaker 2: And you know, like when you when you're a gay person,

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Speaker 2: you're the last person to know, and I was definitely

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Speaker 2: the last person to know and found out from a

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Speaker 2: lot of my peers that I was gay. And it

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Speaker 2: was a very brutal, brutal and unkind period of my life.

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Speaker 2: But I survived it. I don't know how, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was way too many times where I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to keep living. So I really have that understanding now

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Speaker 2: with the kids that I work with, knowing exactly what

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Speaker 2: it's like when you just don't want to be alive anymore.

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Speaker 2: But luckily I had dogs, and I had the bush,

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Speaker 2: and I got through and then when Jack Ruing. The

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Speaker 2: problem is when you're working for your old man's company,

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Speaker 2: the lot of the shopmen take out their frustrations on

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Speaker 2: the boss's sons. So it was from the frying pan

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Speaker 2: to the fire when it came to Jack Ruing. But

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Speaker 2: I did something I shouldn't have done, and that is flogged.

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Speaker 2: Flogged a car, and with my mates we hened off

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Speaker 2: to Sydney and I came across a few modeling scouts

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Speaker 2: and they all suggested that I had what it took

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Speaker 2: to do modeling, and then I ended up saying yes

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Speaker 2: to the next one that came along, and then probably

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Speaker 2: about a week later, after returning the car, I was

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Speaker 2: modeling the catwalks of Europe, and suddenly my whole world

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Speaker 2: had changed, you know, from going from a station life

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Speaker 2: to a boarding school life, and then I was opened

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Speaker 2: up to this whole new world that I didn't know existed.

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Speaker 2: And I had a very masculine child and a very

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Speaker 2: masculine boarding school experience, and then to be opened up

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Speaker 2: to the world of fashion and meeting people from every

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Speaker 2: part of the world. And that's what happens in modeling.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've got people from Eastern Europe and the

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Speaker 2: Americas and a few Australians. But yeah, it really opened

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Speaker 2: up my idea that there was a lot more to

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Speaker 2: learn and a lot of what I've been told and

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Speaker 2: led to believe in the one party state of Southern

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Speaker 2: Queensland probably wasn't true. And I very much so went

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Speaker 2: on a journey after that. I traveled to about eighty

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Speaker 2: countries backpacking and just wanted to really find out what

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Speaker 2: the lives of other people were, because it was quite

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Speaker 2: different to what I've been told as a kid how

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Speaker 2: the world was. You know, it was always a them

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Speaker 2: and us type childhood. But that kind of really exploded

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Speaker 2: my ability to know that, you know, you've always got

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Speaker 2: to do something, to know something.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing, mate. That is such a bloody incredible story.

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Speaker 1: And isn't it funny how like when you grow up

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Speaker 1: in like you grew up in a very specific environment

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Speaker 1: with you know, like not too many people grew up

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Speaker 1: in that environment on a hundred thousand acre farm with

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Speaker 1: ten siblings, and who also, how old were you when

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Speaker 1: you realized you were gay?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Look when I accepted it early twenties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then but all of that right, and but

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Speaker 1: also the programming with the education and your dad's expectation

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Speaker 1: and I'm on something more military and these are the rules,

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Speaker 1: and you follow our rules, and this is the way

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Speaker 1: the world is, David. This is the way the world is, David,

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Speaker 1: and my way on the Highway. And then you like

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Speaker 1: in fucking hot Disneyland on the other side of the world.

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Speaker 1: It must have been like landing on Mars, mate.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was exactly that. It was like landing

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Speaker 2: on Mars. And because I had such a strong Western

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Speaker 2: Queensland accent, people thought that I was from some European

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Speaker 2: country that they'd never heard of. Like people didn't know

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Speaker 2: that I spoke English. And it was really interesting when

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Speaker 2: you know, people speak around you about you, and it

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Speaker 2: was it was just it was very much like being

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Speaker 2: an alien. And you know, I had no concept of

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Speaker 2: that fashion world that for me, you know, growing up

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Speaker 2: and as you suggest, you know, my father was all

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Speaker 2: about everything is real. You know, you're not worth anything

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Speaker 2: unless you create something or you produce food. And then

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Speaker 2: here I was at the opposite end of the spectrum,

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Speaker 2: people creating fashion, which was very not what my dad

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Speaker 2: would have said.

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Speaker 1: Was over. I can imagine you going Dad I'm in

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Speaker 1: France and I'm putting on these really fucking expensive clothes

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Speaker 1: that I don't own, and I'm whilsting down this fucking thing,

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Speaker 1: doing a couple of pirouettes, waving to a few people

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Speaker 1: and getting a shitload of money. I bet that went

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Speaker 1: down like a coll bucket dispute.

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Speaker 2: Well, funnily enough, when I told him what I was doing,

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Speaker 2: he wouldn't shake my hand, and he actually spat on me.

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Speaker 2: And he was so disgusted that I was going to

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Speaker 2: actually do that. And he didn't spit on me in

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Speaker 2: the way that you know modern people do it was

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Speaker 2: he absolutely did it to say that he thought what

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Speaker 2: I was doing was was was wrong, and that that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that he was he was absolutely disgusted.

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Speaker 1: By I'm sorry to hear that. What what do you think,

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Speaker 1: like now you're a grown up having a conversation, you

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Speaker 1: look back and like you were a you know, a

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Speaker 1: young man, what do you think that was about for

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Speaker 1: your dad.

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Speaker 2: Losing his best slave laborer. I think it was one

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Speaker 2: big part of it, because you know I was I

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Speaker 2: was seven day a weeker. You would, you know, camp

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Speaker 2: in the tractor if we were cultivating or for harvesting,

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Speaker 2: or planting. You know, you would do that for three

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Speaker 2: four and sometimes up to six weeks, depending on how

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Speaker 2: many acres we were doing. Or if I was out

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Speaker 2: on a on a driving job, you know, would be

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Speaker 2: three months on the back of horse horses. So he

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Speaker 2: was losing, losing, I think, one of his best workers.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing was he he's just generation, you know,

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Speaker 2: the pre war, pre World War two generation where everything

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Speaker 2: had to be real, and you know, he grew up

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Speaker 2: in a time of the depression and then of course

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Speaker 2: lived through the war when there was very very few

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Speaker 2: men working, so children had to work, and of course

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Speaker 2: women had to work where they hadn't done in generations before.

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Speaker 2: So anything that was so perfluous he thought, And to

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Speaker 2: a degree still I suppose thinks that it's just it's

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Speaker 2: wrong and it's the devil's work.

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Speaker 1: I suppose, Wow, I'm going to say welcome back, even

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Speaker 1: though you technically didn't know I was going everyone I

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Speaker 1: was because Mlesa sent me a message, which she never does,

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Speaker 1: little across my screens said your microphone's dogshit or something

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Speaker 1: to that effect. Ah, And whre nothing if not super professional, Dave.

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Speaker 1: As you can imagine, Farmer Dave's nothing but impressed so far. Mate,

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Speaker 1: how did that? Just getting back to your dad, because

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Speaker 1: you work with kids, and I guess for some kids

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Speaker 1: you're a bit of a father figure or at least

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Speaker 1: a mentor teacher role model, someone they look up to

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Speaker 1: and also tell me to get rooted and not talk

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Speaker 1: about anything you don't want to. But how did that

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Speaker 1: end up with your dad as you got older that relationship?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, like right now, being vulnerable is really important.

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Speaker 2: That's what I teach the kids is, you know, we've

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Speaker 2: got to share us stories, got to share share what

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Speaker 2: we're going through to be able to work through it.

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Speaker 2: I've always had a very complicated relationship with my father.

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Speaker 2: I think many people have complicated relationship with the father,

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Speaker 2: especially sons with their dads, I've found. But it gives

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Speaker 2: me a real understanding when I'm working with kids who

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Speaker 2: have been rejected by their parents, that at least I

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Speaker 2: can understand where they're coming from, so I can give

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Speaker 2: them my baggage, so that I can share the load

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Speaker 2: of their baggage a little bit in their experiences. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I suppose where my father and I are now. Look,

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Speaker 2: I was meant to take on the family station. As

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Speaker 2: the youngest son in my family, that was my job.

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Speaker 2: And you know, he really kept me on a leash

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Speaker 2: to come back. Whenever I did go away and do

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Speaker 2: amazing things, he would always say, well, look, you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got to get back and get serious about it.

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Speaker 2: But then, funnily enough, before I turned forty he he said, look,

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Speaker 2: you know, well you're not going to take on the farm.

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Speaker 2: And so it was a late in life kick in

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Speaker 2: the guts that I suppose made me realize that I've

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Speaker 2: got to be free of the expectations, whether he's putting

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Speaker 2: them on me or I'm putting them on me from

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Speaker 2: my dad and those family expectations that often you know,

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Speaker 2: happen in countries like Pakistan or Nigeria, but you know,

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Speaker 2: we in the rural parts of Australia still have those

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Speaker 2: very intense family expectations. So being free of that was

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Speaker 2: probably one of the greatest experiences of my life.

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Speaker 1: What's been for you in terms of you figuring out

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Speaker 1: who you are as a bloke and as a dad?

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Speaker 1: You're a dad? Do you have four kids or something

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Speaker 1: that I read.

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Speaker 2: It's yeah, new babies.

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Speaker 1: Well, now, so like dad, partner, brother, you know, businessman

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Speaker 1: teacher meant, like, where in the middle of all of that,

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Speaker 1: where do you get your sense of self from, like

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Speaker 1: your identity who you are? Or is that not something

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Speaker 1: that you think about?

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Speaker 2: Oh look crazy. I think dropping the burden of ego

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Speaker 2: was an amazing thing that I got to do quite

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Speaker 2: some time ago, you know, because I had that big

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Speaker 2: thing at such a young age, you know, nineteen twenty

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Speaker 2: modeling all around the world and it's all about the

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Speaker 2: way you look. I was able to shed that and

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Speaker 2: because I was an extremely anxious person, you know, like

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Speaker 2: I missed most of Grade twelve because I was hiding

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Speaker 2: in the honey or hiding in the library, because I

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Speaker 2: was so nervous to go into a classroom full of

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Speaker 2: other other people. You know. Modeling freed me from that anxiety,

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Speaker 2: But then it also allowed me to be free of

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Speaker 2: that burden that ego really gives us, you know, and

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Speaker 2: especially men. You know, I don't know if it's a

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Speaker 2: testosterone or what it is, but this ego just comes

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Speaker 2: down on us and forces us to do things that

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Speaker 2: we probably wouldn't do without Without that, so I was

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Speaker 2: able to release myself from from ego and just do

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Speaker 2: things because it's right, or because it needs to be

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Speaker 2: done as opposed to having that front. You know, when

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Speaker 2: you work with teenage boys and even to a bigger extent,

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Speaker 2: you know, the girls that I get to work with,

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Speaker 2: you know, having that front is so so important. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's all about making sure that you don't have any

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Speaker 2: shame and avoiding things because of how everyone else thinks.

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Speaker 2: So being able to get rid of all of those

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Speaker 2: facades a very very long time time ago and to

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Speaker 2: get to live my life without those facades, I think

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Speaker 2: is really really important.

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Speaker 1: I reckon, there's about seventy percent of my audience leaning in,

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Speaker 1: going mate, how did you do that? How did you

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Speaker 1: get because I mean, yeah, how did you let go

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Speaker 1: of ego? What is that? I kind of know what

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Speaker 1: it means, but what does it mean for you? How

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Speaker 1: did you do that? Was that a spiritual process? Was

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Speaker 1: that a decision? Was that a self awareness moment in time?

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Speaker 1: Did something happen? Tell us about that? Because that's a

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Speaker 1: fucking great achievement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I suppose there's a few things there. One is

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Speaker 2: being born, being born gay and then having all the

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Speaker 2: facads and the protective mechanisms around you going through you know,

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Speaker 2: an all boys boarding school, coming from a very very

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Speaker 2: homophobic culture, being able to break down all of that

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Speaker 2: and going, well, I actually want to live my life authentically.

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Speaker 2: I want to be who I am and if people

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Speaker 2: don't like that, well that's not my problem, that's their problem.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I can't change the color of my skin, I can't

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Speaker 2: change my sexuality, but what I can change is people's

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Speaker 2: opinions of me, just through living my life authentically and

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Speaker 2: when there's so much you know, lying and deceit back

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Speaker 2: when I was dealing with my sexuality, been free of

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Speaker 2: that lying and being free of the deceit and being honest,

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Speaker 2: I think was the first big breakthrough for me personally.

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Speaker 2: Not everyone gets to go from straight to gay and

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Speaker 2: be very happy in both camps. But I was really,

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Speaker 2: really fortunate to have been had that transition and that

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Speaker 2: amount of self awareness that comes with it and having

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Speaker 2: to break through such an extreme cultural barrier was pretty powerful.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I also went on a show with

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Speaker 2: three million people Watch Your Big Brother back in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and six really say boom, this is me, this

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Speaker 2: is who I am, and I'm with it. If you're not, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but it's not my issue. That's going to

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Speaker 2: be yours that you need to work through. But I'm

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Speaker 2: going to live life who I am. I'm not a

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Speaker 2: not a broken straight man. I'm a proud gay man.

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Speaker 2: So that was really powerful to be able to say

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Speaker 2: that at twenty six. And I suppose moving through that.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've had many businesses that were extremely successful

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Speaker 2: and they failed, but that getting up experience and know

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Speaker 2: that getting back up and going all is not lost.

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Speaker 2: And I think you know, a Rhodesian teacher told me

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Speaker 2: that when he was an immigrant, and obviously he had

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Speaker 2: lost everything when he west left Roojija during the Bush War,

319
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Speaker 2: which is obviously now Zimbabwe, but he, you know, he

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Speaker 2: very much so said to me one day when I

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Speaker 2: was hiding in the bathroom and he came down to

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Speaker 2: try and find me, he just said, look, all's not

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Speaker 2: lost me, All's not lost. You have the ability from

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Speaker 2: this moment in every other moment moving forward to choose

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Speaker 2: how you want to be and if you want to

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Speaker 2: stay in here you can, but just remember all is

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Speaker 2: not lost. And that was a beautiful thing for that

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Speaker 2: man to say to me.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like a metaphor. If you want to stay

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Speaker 1: in this little room, this little isolated, disconnected no one

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Speaker 1: to talk to room. You can, ye, you extrapolate that

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Speaker 1: to the world and what you've done since. And also

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Speaker 1: when you think about like being you, whoever you are, whatever,

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Speaker 1: that means, being authentically you in the world, whether it's Melissa, you, me,

335
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Speaker 1: or anyone listening to this. But how fucking exhausting is

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Speaker 1: it pretending to be someone you're not?

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine George Santos like the array of lies

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Speaker 2: that he has around, all of those personas that he has,

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Speaker 2: and I think for him, you know, again, growing up,

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Speaker 2: gaining a conservative culture that can do that to you.

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Speaker 2: You have to put all these masks on, and you

342
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Speaker 2: have to put all this ego in front of you.

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Speaker 2: Hard to walk back from that. But when you can

344
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Speaker 2: turf all that to the side and go, you know,

345
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 2: when someone says how are you feeling today, and you

346
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 2: can actually be honest, But then do you be genuinely

347
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Speaker 2: interested in how they're feeling? I think there's a way

348
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 2: to break through all of that burden of ego that

349
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Speaker 2: we all carry.

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Speaker 1: And I bet, I mean, I'm sure there are a

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Speaker 1: few little speed humbs here and there, because you're normal

352
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Speaker 1: in life and the world's not perfect. But I bet

353
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Speaker 1: for the most part you went, why the fuck didn't

354
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Speaker 1: I do that five years ago?

355
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Speaker 2: Oh? Look, I checked myself all the time, and I

356
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Speaker 2: encourage the young people that I work with to. You know,

357
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Speaker 2: we check ourselves all the time. Whenever we're going off

358
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Speaker 2: on tangents where we know that we're not being real

359
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 2: or not being grounded, well, then yeah, you've got to

360
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Speaker 2: check yourself continuously. It's a daily process.

361
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Speaker 1: It's funny with dudes too, I mean everyone, but with

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Speaker 1: men too, because of the ego thing and the testosterone thing,

363
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,400
Speaker 1: and the cultural and the programming. Like what your dad

364
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Speaker 1: expected of you? How many sisters did you have?

365
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Speaker 3: By the way, yeah five brothers now, no disrespect, but

366
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Speaker 3: I bet dad wasn't expecting any of the girls to

367
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Speaker 3: take over the farm, right, No, he was stereotypically, But

368
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Speaker 3: so the.

369
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Speaker 2: Girls are in the house and the boys are out

370
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Speaker 2: in the fields, except if there was stick picking to do,

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Speaker 2: then everyone was out picking sticks. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is that like we

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Speaker 1: we kind of get intentionally or not for better or worse,

374
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Speaker 1: often worse, like shoved into these stereotypical you know, rolls

375
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Speaker 1: or sluts, and then you've kind of like you you

376
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Speaker 1: are a version of your parents, or a version of

377
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: your friends or peers, or your culture or your religion

378
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 1: or the programming from the media or social media these days.

379
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Speaker 1: And then in the middle of that, it's try. It's

380
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,160
Speaker 1: hard to and also daved because I guess everyone wants

381
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: to belong to something, right. And then if all of

382
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: a sudden you go, hey, everyone, I've been pretending I'm

383
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: actually gay, or I actually fucking hate bowling everyone on

384
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Speaker 1: Friday nights, I fucking hate it. Also I'm a vegetarian

385
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Speaker 1: or my carnival friends.

386
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Speaker 4: Sorry fucking I don't you know whatever, And there's that

387
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 4: it takes a lot of courage to go I actually,

388
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Speaker 4: you know, I still want to be loved and needed

389
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Speaker 4: and wanted and valued and connected, but I'm not in

390
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Speaker 4: that group.

391
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Speaker 1: I'm not in the heterosexual group. Sorry dudes, sorry whoever,

392
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Speaker 1: I'm not like that.

393
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Speaker 2: And you don't have to change everyone around you, you know, Like, No,

394
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 2: when I accepted myself as gay, I didn't want everyone

395
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Speaker 2: around me to become gay. I think that's about ah.

396
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 1: I thought that's how it worked.

397
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 2: No, write that down, But you know, it's one of

398
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,360
Speaker 2: those things that when you accept the new you, you

399
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 2: don't have to make everyone else change, you know that.

400
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: The one thing that I've always noticed when people do

401
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: go through these periods of being the new authentic self,

402
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: they're like, well, everyone else needs to come on my

403
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 2: journey with me. It's like no, no, no, you do

404
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: your boom if you've become a vegan, not everyone around

405
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 2: you needs to be a vegan as well. Like you,

406
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 2: just do you and and shine as yourself. You don't

407
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: have to have you don't have to recreate your own tribe.

408
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 2: You can find your new tribe. But there's nothing wrong

409
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 2: with being a vegan with fifteen in your circle of friends,

410
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: fifteen that are they're not vegan.

411
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also, I mean this is we've spoken about

412
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: this lately on the show, is just like what about

413
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: having friends where whether it's politically or religiously or culturally

414
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: or sociologically or philosophically, they think A and you think B.

415
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: And you vote liberally and I vote labor And you've

416
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: barracked for this team and I barrack for that team.

417
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: And you know, I went I went and saw Avatar

418
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: with one of my best mates, a couple of weeks ago,

419
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: and he's gay and I'm not. And I said to

420
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: someone said, what are you doing like tonight? I said,

421
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: I've got a date and they said who with? I said, Patrick,

422
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: We're going to the Avatar And it kind of messed

423
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: with them a bit. I go, one of is one

424
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: of the best friends, Like, that's what We're going to

425
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: see a film? Yeah, and they like almost like I

426
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: could see him thinking what does that mean? Though, yes, dude,

427
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: it means I'm hanging out with a friend, We're seeing

428
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: a film. But like people like is that. I'm like,

429
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: come on, come.

430
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: On, the human brain, we we just need to box things,

431
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 2: you know. And it's it's the the you know, this

432
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: huge brain that we have that that any woman has

433
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: ever had a child knows exactly how big the brain is.

434
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: But this huge brain that we have just needs to

435
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: box things so we can move on. You know, there's

436
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: so much information out there that the human brain is

437
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: a box box, box box, so we can just focus

438
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: on what's what's important. But I think, you know, we

439
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 2: had this thirty years of world Librettism and where everyone

440
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: was free, and you know, the world's just gone forward

441
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: in such giant leaps and you know, poverty has really

442
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: gone by the wayside for the vast majority of the planet.

443
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: So he's just had this this amazing awakening period. But

444
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: then I think, now we're going back into the boxes.

445
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: And I think social media, which was meant to flourish ideas,

446
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: is making people think smaller and going back into those

447
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 2: comfortable tribes. And I think you need to be uncomfortable

448
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: each day. And as you say, have friends that you

449
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,959
Speaker 2: can listen to or talk with. You don't have to

450
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: agree with everyone, Like if you're in an echo chamber

451
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 2: of your own thoughts, that's pretty scary to me. Like

452
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: that would be the most terrifying things to me. I

453
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: want my friends to all be all be of different

454
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: ILKs so that we're all challenging each other but also

455
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 2: learning from each other.

456
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: Well, that's right, And if you happen to agree, cool,

457
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: and if you don't, also cool. But us being friends

458
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: is not conditional upon these five rules that we must

459
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: or these values. But you just got to have a

460
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: look at this little document before we become friends. It's

461
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: just seven pages. Just get your lawyer to check it

462
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: and just sign here, here, and here. It's like, that's

463
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: not a friendship that's a arrangement, that's a strategic, something

464
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound anything like love or kindness or acceptance

465
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: or tolerance. Now, Melissa and I both dog lovers, and

466
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,479
Speaker 1: you'll make us look like complete amateurs. You love humans,

467
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: you love helping humans, but you're a little bit partial

468
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: to fucking I think I think animals are your favorite people.

469
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Absolutely, Yeah, tell us about your favorite people.

470
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: Oh look, I've got Jimmy, Jimmy wandering around at my

471
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: feet right now. Look, I think dogs can teach us

472
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: so much because you know, they listen so much, and

473
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: sometimes as humans, we just want to be heard, and

474
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 2: especially teenagers, they just want to be heard. But look,

475
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 2: I've been working with dogs since I was three years old,

476
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: and training dogs since I was five. And the communication

477
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: that you can have without words, without the language that

478
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 2: you're that you use each day, but just focusing on

479
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: behavior and body movement and communicate through that, I think

480
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: is something special because it tunes you in to a

481
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: whole new level of communication. And that's why I love

482
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: animals so much, regardless of the species, but definitely dogs,

483
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 2: because you know, they were a human construct. We created them.

484
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: What fifteen thousand years ago to work with us and

485
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: to be our best mates. And haven't they done a

486
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: bloody good job on that front?

487
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: And isn't it bizarre? Correct me if I'm wrong, because

488
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm no animalologist, clearly, but didn't didn't we start

489
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand years ago with a couple of wolves and

490
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: just breeding, breeding, breeding, pick and choose, pick and choose,

491
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: pick and choose the most docile and friendly or the

492
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: least vicious, And we ended up with fucking.

493
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: Spoodles pretty much, pretty much, that's kind of happening.

494
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: Ended up with grodles, noodles, doodles, noodles, fucking spoodles, doodles.

495
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this amazing thing when docility on the alleyles

496
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: creates colors and creates variation, and that's why dogs have

497
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: variated so much. And again, you know, most of our

498
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: domesticated species, when we choose docility or bitability, that ability

499
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: for us to be able to manipulate them or keep

500
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: them in a minotonized or a childlike state, we have

501
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: the amazing variation of color and all that. And you know,

502
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 2: obviously we've proven that with silver foxes with studies done

503
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 2: in Russia, and of course with rats and all sorts

504
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: of things that human fanciers are being breeding over the

505
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: last hundred years, so docility and variation comes, and we

506
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: humans love variation. At the moment, the human seems to

507
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: absolutely love anything that's got a bit of poodle in it.

508
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: What's that about?

509
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I don't know. I think we all just

510
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: are missing our teddies. And especially during the lockdown period

511
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: when a million new dogs joined us th Elier, I

512
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 2: think three quarters of those were oodles of some sscription

513
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: because we all just needed our teddy from our childhood.

514
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: Again, that's so funny, that's maybe that's maybe it so

515
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: you you, I don't know, was it I read? I

516
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: can't remember off the top of my head, but like,

517
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: was it nine or eight or nine or ten years ago?

518
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: You opened basically Disneyland for dogs? Yeah, tell us about

519
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: what was that and what was that about?

520
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 2: Yeah? So obviously working with dogs forever traveling the world,

521
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: you know, you see the interactions of different peoples with

522
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: their dogs, beating the Amazon a beat in Siberia or

523
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: beating the Himalayas, and dogs are such an integral part

524
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: to the human experience, and you know, dogs have gotten

525
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: me through everything but it you know, minus twenty degrees

526
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 2: in Mongolia in a tent. You know, if I didn't

527
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: have three dogs under the reindeer pelts with me, I

528
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: would have absolutely frozen. But about ten years ago I

529
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: was training dogs to do some search and rescue and

530
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: china them how to jump out of planes, you know,

531
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: on my person, and I had a terrible, terrible parachuting

532
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: accident and was in a wheelchair for about a year

533
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: and broken hands, broken everything. So prior to that period,

534
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: I'd used force training, which is, you know, you compel

535
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: a dog to do something. A dog does something wrong,

536
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: you growl at it, and I'm shamed to say it,

537
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: but you know, training stock dogs, i'd use shop collars,

538
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: I'd kick the kick dogs, throwing stones at dogs, because

539
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: all about getting the job done, you know. I'd very

540
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 2: much so had that mindset from my family and the

541
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: culture that I grew up in. But when you're in

542
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: a wheelchair and your hands don't work. Look, my parents

543
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: sent me a kelpie from the farm, and because I

544
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: couldn't obviously be on the farm, I was too much

545
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: of a burden, and so I was living in the

546
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: city in my wheelchair and this dog, you know, if

547
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: it did anything wrong, I couldn't do anything about it.

548
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: But I could still flick at a treat. So I

549
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: did what we call positive reinforcement quadrant learning, which is

550
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: click and treat. You know, the dog does something you like,

551
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: you give it a treat. And I was got through

552
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: my black dog and got through my severe depression of

553
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,719
Speaker 2: being someone that loves to do four thousand things at

554
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: once and was completely in this series of casts and

555
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: unable to do anything. But you know, I was able

556
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: to get my dog to get my toothbrush, to open

557
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: the door, to be able to go and get whatever

558
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: it was that I needed the dog to do, even

559
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: to grab my blanket to open up my bed so

560
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: I could jump in bed. And then when I got

561
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: a little bit more mobile, she would have a little

562
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: part would go to the shops and I would put

563
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: all the shopping in it. She just did everything for me.

564
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: And I realized that I absolutely owed my life to dogs,

565
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: be it on the station, getting through the droughts, or

566
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: doing all the droving, or as I say, up in

567
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: that frozen territories of Mongolia. And then at that period

568
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: of time, through that terrible black dog period, So I

569
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: wanted people to experience the absolute joy of dogs, but

570
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: doing in more kinder, more so lines based way, but

571
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: also be able to honor all the different breeds that

572
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: we humans have created, from the keilpie with sheep herding,

573
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: to the greyhound with racing, or the whippet with racing,

574
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: to all the water dogs. And so yeah, we built

575
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: this Disneyland that had about twenty sports that people could

576
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: do with their dogs, and also wanted them to understand

577
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: that you don't have to incarcerate a dog if it

578
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: hasn't worked for a family. You know, you think of

579
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: the typical shelter back then was very much so a

580
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: meter by two meters sell and like that's a like

581
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: why if we made the wrong choice or whatever reason,

582
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: a dog's going to a shelter, why are they in

583
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: a living condition like a jail. They've done nothing wrong.

584
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: So we had a five acres of free range living

585
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: for the dogs and they had pools, they had jungle gyms,

586
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: they had absolutely everything, plus access to all the sports.

587
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: So I take a lot of dogs from shelter, has

588
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: allowed them to become a dog so that they didn't

589
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: have those stereotypic enough they were self mutilating or if

590
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 2: they were jumping against the cages, or if they were

591
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: attacking people, because they just become stereotypic in that cell.

592
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: Often back then they would just put the dog down

593
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: right because of behavioral problems. They couldn't rehime it. But

594
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: they would come learn how to be a dog again,

595
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: and then very quickly they would be rehomed back at

596
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: the shelter. So it was a place where I think

597
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: about fifteen thousand people from Sydney came to to learn

598
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: or to have fun with their dogs. And that was

599
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: really me giving back to dogs to say, hey, thanks

600
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: for allowing me to live my life.

601
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: Wow, I have a good question, but there's a point.

602
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: What color was the kelpie as.

603
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: You, black and tan with a big white chest.

604
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: So a black dog helped you get through the black dog?

605
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: Funny enough? Yeah, I never thought of that.

606
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: Yes, you're welcome, you can use that. Yeah about Rough Track, mate.

607
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: So Rough Track is a place where kids can come

608
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: to get their lives back on track and make the

609
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: most out of their lives. So kids come to us

610
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: via the police. They come to us fire referrals from

611
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: different care agencies, from schools, from families that just aren't coping,

612
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: and it's really a place that we promise them three

613
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: things that will keep them alife, that will keep them

614
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: out of prison, and we'll give them skills for a

615
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: secure future. And those skills come right down to the

616
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: simple basics how to deal with the stressful situation. And

617
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: that strestful situation could be absolutely anything been spoken to

618
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: by another person going to a job interview. So we

619
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: do a lot on communication, a lot on anger management,

620
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: a lot on dealing with anxiety, dealing with depression, and

621
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: we do it all through a very unique way of

622
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: being farm based. So they're touching the earth, they're growing crops,

623
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: they're growing vegetables, they're working with dogs. Every single day.

624
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: We do a lot of dog work, so it's out

625
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: walking your dogs, so learning about real relationships. You know,

626
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: I've got a loose leash and your dog's on a

627
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: loose leash. That says a lot about your ability in

628
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: your relationships. And then I can talk to the kids

629
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: in action, so you're not just sitting there having a

630
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: conversation like a therapist does or a counselor, because often

631
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: teenagers just don't like that situation. We're having conversations, which

632
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: a real world is a leash really tight? You know,

633
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: what relationship do you have at the moment where you

634
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: feel like you're being dragged along? And then the kid

635
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: can open up and then soon enough, you know, we

636
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: can have that dog on a loose lead, and they

637
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: feel so much better, and it's like, hey, you know,

638
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: maybe you could try this or try that, or what

639
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: do you reckon? You could try and then you're guiding

640
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: the kid into a conversation where they can communicate more

641
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: effectively but also acknowledge how they can improve their relationships

642
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: just by simply walking a dog on a leash, you know.

643
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: And I'll have ten, fifteen or twenty kids out walking

644
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: dogs and I'll just jump from one to the next,

645
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 2: and then we can reflect on what's going on. Then

646
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: we all meet in the bush and which our bush classroom,

647
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 2: all these logs, and they just sit there with their

648
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: dog and we can take in the world, do a

649
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 2: little bit of meditation. We're taking the colors, the smells,

650
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 2: and we can just ease their minds and rest their

651
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: minds for a little bit. And you know what, that's

652
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 2: the first twenty minutes of being in rough Track. So's

653
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: it's an amazing place, but it's all about making sure

654
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: that we have kids that get to live the life

655
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 2: that I've got to live.

656
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: Well, that's bloody incredible. I'm trying to visualize, like I'm

657
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: getting lost in the story. I'm not thinking about what's

658
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: my next question. I'm going I want to go there,

659
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: I want to sit in the bush, I want to

660
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: walk a dog. I want to get him or her

661
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: on it looselyd how does it like? Do they come

662
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: three days? Do they is it like? What is that

663
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: a program that goes for an extended period of time?

664
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: Like?

665
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: How does it work? Like?

666
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 3: Yep?

667
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: So we have the core kids that are continuing on

668
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: from last year. So I think there's about there's about

669
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: fifteen of those that are continuing on and they'll be

670
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: with us for five or three five or three days

671
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: and a week, and then we have what we call

672
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: our roundyard kids. In roundyard, for anyone that's ever been

673
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: on a farm or seen a seen cheap hurting demonstrations,

674
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: it's the dog on the opposite side and bringing sheep

675
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: back to you, or moving in a circular motion. And

676
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: that's one of the fundamental trainings that we do, is

677
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: teaching kids perspectives. They understand what it's like from someone

678
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 2: else's point of view, which a lot of the kids

679
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 2: that come to us haven't learnt what it's like, you know,

680
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: and that's why, you know, often they can be violental,

681
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: steal or hurt other people because they really don't have

682
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 2: the hole wearing someone else's shoes point of view. So

683
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: that perspective is the roundyard project that goes ten weeks,

684
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: and the kids usually come like you know, some of

685
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 2: the ones that came today, hoodies on, heads down. It's

686
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: bought it hot, right, but you know, they're all very

687
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: aged within themselves and angry at the world. And what

688
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: we try I do over a very very short period

689
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: of time is get them to express themselves, get them

690
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: to communicate effectively, and to trust us. And we do

691
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: that all through the dogs and also to be responsible.

692
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: The first thing I do when they arrive is pick

693
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: up the dog shit, you know, clean out the dog's waters,

694
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: make sure the dogs okay, connect with the dog, do

695
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: a little bit of training with the dog, bond with

696
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: the dog, and then I can work with them really

697
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 2: really easily because the dogs are already created that little

698
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: opening that I can peek in and say, okay, young

699
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 2: follow How you doing?

700
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: How many dogs do you have?

701
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: Mate, ah, between twenty and thirty. I'm not going to

702
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: give you an exact number, because you know, you always

703
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: feel a bit crazy dog man if you give an

704
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: exact number.

705
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: But I don't like that. Once you get over five,

706
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: you're a crazy dog man. So don't fucking worry about

707
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: the number, like only twenty six, Craig, I'm completely sane. Yeah,

708
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: you're not so a good way.

709
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is that I reckon that look a

710
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: lot of our sisters because we're part of a wider

711
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: tracker network from Queensland right across New South Wales and

712
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 2: there's lots of these programs, well I should say lots,

713
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 2: there's eleven of these programs. We're a little bit different

714
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: because every kid gets a dog in our program. I

715
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: think with the big city that Sydney is, there's a

716
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: lot of disconnect and I really want the kids to connect,

717
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: or really want them to find that very quickly. In

718
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: our program. We don't have the smaller town headspace that

719
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: a lot of our sister programs have because we're in

720
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: such a big, disconnected city and our kids are so

721
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 2: disconnected from school or family or culture. That them working

722
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: with a single dog for the entire ten week program

723
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: I think is so valuable because of got to have

724
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 2: that relationship. And at the end of the period, Craig,

725
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: this is where it gets interesting. And everyone always has

726
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: the same question, I hope what I'm jumping into you,

727
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: But do they get to keep the dog? And the

728
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: answer is no, because a lot of our kids come

729
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 2: from quite violent homestic violence is just a part of life.

730
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: And one of the skills that I want each young

731
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 2: person that comes to us to take away is your

732
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: ability to absolutely love something, be so in love with

733
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: a dog because they can't with a dog. They sleep

734
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: with a dog in their swags when we're off doing

735
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 2: trips or shows with their dogs, so they're really bonded

736
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: with the dogs. But I want them to know that

737
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 2: it's okay to let go. And that skill, I think

738
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: is something that is really lacking in a lot of

739
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: the young people that will come to us, is learning

740
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: that skill to love and let go, as opposed to

741
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: will I need you and I'll force you to be

742
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: with me.

743
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: Wow, there's so many body variables in this I'm thinking about.

744
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: So is there a Davies there? If so, when you said,

745
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: the people are coming back from last year which are

746
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: out three to five day are weekers? Yeah, whatever that means.

747
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: How are they are they kind of ongoing? Who are

748
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: they versus the people that come in and out for

749
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: ten weeks.

750
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: Well, they're our amazing young people that still need more

751
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 2: of the program. They can't go back into education. So

752
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 2: my big goal for the kids is there's only two

753
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: ways to leave rough Track, and that is full time

754
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: educational full time employment. Other than that, you're staying with me,

755
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 2: and I'm going to get you to that point that

756
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: you are absolutely ready. And I don't want the kids

757
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 2: to go to early because I don't want them to

758
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: fall flat on their face and go, well, I'm not

759
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 2: going I'm never going to get a job again because

760
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: that was too terrible. You know. I want them to

761
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: be absolutely ready, which is why and I get the

762
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 2: kids to do live television, they do performances in front

763
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: of thirty thousand people, they do performances in front of

764
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: their own families. So I really challenge their abilities to

765
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: make sure that they have all of the boundaries pushed

766
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: so when they do go back to school or they

767
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 2: do go into the employment world, they're absolutely ready. And

768
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: they've got all the resilience and all the tools and

769
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 2: their toolkit that they can deal with any given situation.

770
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 2: So it's it's an extremely full on program to ten weeks.

771
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 2: But then the Core program, those kids that continue on

772
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: with us. Sometimes we'll have twenty kids continue on with us.

773
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: Sometimes we'll have, as we've got at the moment, about

774
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 2: fifteen continuing on with us. And they are the little

775
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: legends that help the other kids. It's just like a station.

776
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: You know, most farmers you'll say, how do I train

777
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: a dog? They're like, I don't know, only trained one

778
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: when I was a kid, and then that dog's trained

779
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 2: all the other dogs. So people don't like it when

780
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: I like in kids to dogs, but I do. I

781
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: love dogs more than anything in the world, and I

782
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: love the kids that I work with more than anything

783
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: in the world. But the kids that continue on from Core,

784
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: they will teach the other kids everything they need to know.

785
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 2: And kids tend to learn better from their own mates

786
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,919
Speaker 2: than they do it from the old people that don't

787
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 2: know anything.

788
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: So many questions. Now, firstly, you built, you created a

789
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: problem for yourself because problem right, Well here's the problem.

790
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: So you go they're either going back in full time

791
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: education or full time employment, and if they don't with me,

792
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: I'll be like, fuck that, I'm staying here. Fuck employment,

793
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: that's cool. I'm starting on the farm with farmer Dave.

794
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at me. I'm done.

795
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a bit of an issue that we

796
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 2: did create, probably a space that kids want to.

797
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: Who would want to leave, You would want to leave?

798
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

799
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to leave, and I haven't been been there.

800
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: So I do work them really hard. Like I've got

801
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, Craiglock. When we're doing clean

802
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: up jobs after the floods, or we're doing bushfire fencing

803
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: recovery jobs, you know, we'll be working from six thirty

804
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: in the morning till six thirty or ninety there's a

805
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: daylight hour. We're using it to build fences for people,

806
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: clean up paddocks that have got crap on them from

807
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: the floods, or cleaning out people's houses. So I really

808
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: do work them. So there is a bit of a

809
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 2: push factor into the employment work. And the funny thing

810
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: is I caught up with three young blokes just recently

811
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: at a big event and I asked him. I said, oh,

812
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 2: how's work? And they're like, way easier than Rough Track,

813
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: And you know that's to me, that's awesome because I've

814
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: done my job. I've shown them you know this is fun. Yeah,

815
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: but I'm going to push you a bit further, push

816
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 2: you a bit further, push you a bit further, so

817
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: when they do go into a job, it's a breeze.

818
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: You know. I want them to ask to get into

819
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: that job and go, wow, this is this is really easy.

820
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: What was I worried about or what is you know

821
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: my family members that aren't employed because some of our

822
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: kids got multi generational unemployment. You know, I want them

823
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 2: to go in like a breeze because there's a lot

824
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: of pressure put on them and fear about a job.

825
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: Much easier to go on the doll or much easier

826
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: just to stay at home and do drugs. You know.

827
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 2: So it's really pushing them every which way I can

828
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: within the safety wrap around that is Rough Track, so

829
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 2: that when they go out into that job world, they're

830
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: just like, WHOA, how.

831
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: Long had they amazing? How long before?

832
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 4: You know?

833
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: So they come in today the new group, hands in

834
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: the pocket hoodies, fucking looking at their feet. Everyone's a

835
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: fucking idiot, No one knows anything. You can all get

836
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: rooted and fuck you and I'm the toughest and whatever.

837
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: How long before that becomes where they're you know, they're

838
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,959
Speaker 1: starting to integrate, they've made a friend or two, they're

839
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: opening up a little bit, and there's you know, it's

840
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: a bit warmer and less chaotic. Yeah.

841
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 2: So in our program, it usually takes up to about

842
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: three weeks, and they're real hard nuts to crack three weeks.

843
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: But it's really I've got to get them here every day.

844
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 2: So if i can get them here the two days

845
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: a week that the roundyard kids come, so Tuesdays and Thursdays,

846
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: it's usually things start to change by week two. Then

847
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: by week three three, they really are those all those

848
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: barriers are gone. They've got their heads up there. Certainly

849
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 2: the hoodies are off and they're communicating with each other.

850
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: They're having fun. They're not just going to come and

851
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: then fight straight on. You know, just how they are

852
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: in the first week.

853
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: Don't fucking look at me, oh.

854
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: Cricky like they yeah, yeah, the first week is just like,

855
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: oh my god, here we go again.

856
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: And do you have any big lumps working for you

857
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: that can kind of just step in the breach there

858
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: and go listen. Listen Champ and listen Sugarray. Listen. Mike

859
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: Tyson said, all the fuck down. Do you have anyone

860
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: that can kind of manage that or do you have

861
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: to do that?

862
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, I always take any punches. If a punch

863
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: is going to come, and look, I'll just hug the

864
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: young person. I'll hug them. I'll move them to a

865
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 2: new place. And so you know, it's always about redirecting.

866
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: It's no different to dogs. It's just redirect get them

867
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: interested in something else, get the energy out whatever's been

868
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: pent up. I mean, you know, they're just dealing with

869
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: the anxieties that are building up in them, that are

870
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: adrenaline is going through their system. They've got to get

871
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: rid of it. So I'll just redirect them off somewhere else.

872
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: And if they whack me or try and stab me

873
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: for a bit, women, that's okay. But then the main

874
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: thing that I get through to them is that they

875
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: are loved and they are valued, and they are heard

876
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: and come over here because I really want to. I

877
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: want to hear what's going on with you. And then

878
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: you know the tears will come and again oftentimes that

879
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: anger is usually just a whole heap of hurt that

880
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: they've got. The hurt people, hurt people. Well, these kids

881
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 2: really been hurt by people. You know, I would would

882
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: never try and tell you what some of these kids

883
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,720
Speaker 2: have been through, but you just have your most terrible thoughts,

884
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: and that's what a lot of our kids have been through,

885
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: you know, the most terrible situations that people have done

886
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: to them. So they're carrying a lot of hurt and

887
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: sometimes all they know is to put that hurt on

888
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: someone else. So my job is to find a place

889
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: for them to be able to release that pain, but

890
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: also manage that pain and have the skills so that

891
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: when they're triggered by it again, they've got a whole

892
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: array of tools, and their tool get to go, you

893
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 2: know what, I can get myself out of this situation

894
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 2: so that I'm not hurt, but no one else is hurt.

895
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: You are quite unique. Do you know what a great

896
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: bloke you are? I know you don't like compliments probably,

897
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: but what you do is fucking amazing. Do you know that?

898
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: Well?

899
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: Thanks man, But I mean like, and I.

900
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: Know, I know it's not about you. I know it's

901
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: about the kids, and I know that. But truly, dude,

902
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: you are true. I meet a lot of cool people

903
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: and you are right up there like you inspire me,

904
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: Like I'm proud of you, and I don't even know you.

905
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: The shit that you do is because like it's messy,

906
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: it's not uncomfortable. I mean, it's not comfortable. I'm sure

907
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: it's I'm sure there's many times where it's somewhere between

908
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: dangerous and just fucking shitty and unrelenting. And but then

909
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: you're talking about loving these kids who are trying to

910
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: stab you or hit you. What is that about? Where

911
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: does that come from? Is that something you've developed or

912
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: is that you Is that innate?

913
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: It could be, it could be innate. But look, when

914
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: I was a little kid and I had to manage

915
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen or twenty stock dogs, all different stockmen, right,

916
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: so you know, like I'd have to manage the camp

917
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 2: of dogs, put them away, feed them, to let them

918
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: all all that sort of stuff, and pick up all

919
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: their dogshit. Was I started doing that at three years

920
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: of age, so I was a little tiny thing. So

921
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: I had to learn very quick how to manage dogs.

922
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: And they've got teeth right, softable, yeah, and they can

923
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: be unpredictable and fierce and yeah.

924
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: So I learned a lot of ways of how to

925
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 2: redirect anger and anxiety back then, and how to move

926
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: things around and create flow systems from a very very

927
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: young age. And of course having five brothers and five sisters,

928
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: you learn how to do it with humans as well.

929
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 2: And then going to boarding school, you really learn and

930
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: you see what works and what doesn't work. And the

931
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: one thing that I think consistently never really worked was

932
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: when we punish people, especial young people that don't have

933
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: the tool kits or the cognitive ability to see around

934
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: corners or look in hinhdsight. They just don't have hindsight

935
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: to look upon. So it's very much so about always

936
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: rewarding the good behaviors and always looking for the gold.

937
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: You know, there's always a lot of shit for a

938
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,959
Speaker 2: gold miner to go through. And I'm like that Fossica

939
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: that got off the boat from California into the Australian

940
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 2: out back and he walked how many weeks and weeks

941
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 2: and weeks to get to the gold field and that

942
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 2: still had the gold fever. Keep searching for that gold.

943
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: And that's what I do with these kids, is no

944
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 2: matter how many times they tell me to fuck off,

945
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: no matter how many times they just totally ignore me

946
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: and give me absolutely nothing. I'm just looking for that gold.

947
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: As soon as I see that little shine, then I

948
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 2: feel alive because I know that I can work with

949
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 2: this kid, because this kid, as every kid, is worth

950
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: having the wonderful life that I've had. Like when you've

951
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: seen death like I have, and sometimes at your own hand,

952
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 2: which is you know as I look back and I go,

953
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 2: thank God, I didn't do that. But when you when

954
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: you see that this kid really does have something that

955
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 2: they want to let you in, I jump in there

956
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: like that fossica.

957
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: Wow, that's Blenny, and.

958
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 2: I mind that gold. And you know what it's It's

959
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 2: all about just rewarding that good behavior because very quickly

960
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: all those terrible things that often teenagers throw out the world.

961
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: I mean, we've all met one, we were one too

962
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 2: much as it can be assholes. But the thing is

963
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: that I've given an opportunity to be something else. There

964
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 2: is no greater joy than when you get a team

965
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 2: ager to choose something else than being an asshole.

966
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: Fucking brilliant. And also, by the way, leadership training can

967
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: start at three everyone I did for Dave was in

968
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: management at three who was head of canine resources including

969
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: picking up dog shit, feeding, grooming. Wow, so how do

970
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: did that go down at the dinner table? How are

971
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: you up the end? Who can't quite see over the

972
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: top from tomorrow you're in charge of the dogs?

973
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and of course back then there was no

974
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 2: desex thing, so all undersex males going for each other,

975
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: all undersex females going for each other. Man. Of course

976
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: we all had the problems of the dingoes coming in

977
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 2: as well.

978
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've bean mayhem? Mate? How when nearly done? When

979
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: early done? How does this work financially? And how can

980
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: we help? Could like to what is how does it work?

981
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: Like the people pay to go there?

982
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 2: Is it?

983
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: Government supported?

984
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 3: Is it?

985
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: What is it? How is it?

986
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 2: Well, as you guys know the old adages, we need

987
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: a village to raise kids, you know, and I work

988
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 2: in the village. We all work in the village, and

989
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: we can all point the finger and we can go.

990
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: Someone should do something about that, you know, like, oh

991
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: my garden got completely kicked over last night, mob of

992
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 2: kids walked past, or you know what's happening in it?

993
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: Alice Springs everyone's pointing the finger and going someone should

994
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: do something about that. What I'm about is solutions. So

995
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 2: if I'm getting the kids to go and pick up rubbish,

996
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: you know, if we want to go and have a

997
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: swim somewhere, we'll spend an hour picking up rubbish, then

998
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 2: we'll go for a swim. You know, it's ways about

999
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 2: you are the solution to whatever problem is in front

1000
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 2: of you. Because I got told by a nun when

1001
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: I was in my bush school. I pointed the finger

1002
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: and I said, oh, he did this and anyway, she said,

1003
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: oh you've you know, she told me that one finger

1004
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: with one thumb was pointing up at Jesus. How can

1005
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: you point the finger of Jesus? But three fingers, That's

1006
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: the important thing. Three fingers are always pointing back at you.

1007
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 2: You know, always yourself what you can do to fix

1008
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 2: the situation before you start point the finger at someone else. So,

1009
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: my very long spill, there is anyone listening can help

1010
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: us out. And it costs a lot to do what

1011
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: we do. We have very very skilled staff, and we

1012
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: need very very skilled staff to do what we do

1013
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 2: with our young people and to get them where they

1014
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 2: need to go. We've got to take them right around

1015
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: the country to expand their worldview as my worldview has expanded,

1016
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: as I alluded to earlier. So if you can financially

1017
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 2: support us, then absolutely please do. Just go to the

1018
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: rough Track website, if you can come to winning of

1019
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: our fundraiseres throughout Sydney, or come to our shows and

1020
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: just support us at our shows, or get online and

1021
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 2: buy stuff that the kids have produced. And because we've

1022
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: got a lot of social enterprises which the kids, we

1023
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 2: try and employ the kids through and that's those core

1024
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: kids that I was talking about. They're not ready for

1025
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: the job market, but we provide jobs through them right here.

1026
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you've got skills that you reckon a

1027
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 2: little organization that does a heck of a lot, we'll

1028
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 2: then get in contact with us. Because the big thing

1029
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 2: that we want to do this year is get our

1030
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 2: own forever farm, you know, a place that kids will

1031
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 2: always have as our home. Like many of us who

1032
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 2: have got farms, it's always home, even if we don't

1033
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 2: visit there. And what we want is to always have

1034
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 2: a touchstone for our kids to go. You know what,

1035
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: that's my safe place. Do they have a visit for

1036
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: the rest of their lives or not. They know that

1037
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 2: it's safe and it's a cure. But if we can

1038
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: then have our own forever farm and have tiny homes

1039
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: on it so the kids can actually stay there safely

1040
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 2: twenty four hours our twenty four hours a day, seven

1041
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: days a week, well that's that's my challenge to the

1042
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: village is be part of our village and help us

1043
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: get where we want to go and get that forever farm.

1044
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,439
Speaker 2: And of course with land prices it costs a few

1045
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 2: million dollars. But you know, if each one of your

1046
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: listeners chucked in five bucks would get there real quick.

1047
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: We definitely would. By the way, everyone, rough Tracks, are

1048
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: you double F? Not ough?

1049
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 2: So?

1050
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: Are you double F rough Track? Mate? You're You're an inspiration.

1051
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: You're a great dude, and I genuinely mean that we'd

1052
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: love to get you back in six months or three

1053
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: months or whenever you can because there's so much more

1054
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: to learn from you. I think we're going to do something.

1055
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: I think we're going to do a little something I

1056
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: might come up with and I might do a workshop

1057
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: or something. We might we might we might do a

1058
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: little fundraiser for rough Track. Everybody, So stay tuned we're

1059
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 1: going to do something, a little something, and at the

1060
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: very least we're.

1061
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: Going absolutely amazing what being part of the village is.

1062
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 2: You know, we've got to do whatever it is. Now.

1063
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 2: I'm the one that takes the punches and the kicks,

1064
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: but I also get the joy of the hugs and

1065
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: the tears and the muner and we've all got our

1066
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: part to play to make sure that no kid gets

1067
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: left behind. And if we can live in a country

1068
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 2: that can produce such greatness, we've also got to look

1069
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: at the cracks and make sure that no kids fall down.

1070
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: On Yeah, well, mate, congrats on what you're doing. You're awesome.

1071
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: Hopefully you'll hear from some of my listeners jump on.

1072
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: Is it the Rough Track website.

1073
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 2: That website or even you know, a free and easy

1074
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 2: thing to do is saying kind words. You know, when

1075
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: we put on our social media on the Rough Track

1076
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: Facebook page or Instagram, the kids doing things, all the

1077
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 2: kids watch it. All the kids are on there, of course,

1078
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: and if you just say kind things and you know

1079
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: in sure that the kids know that people are watching

1080
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 2: and people care, that's another big way. And when the

1081
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 2: kids are all out and about it, when their bright Orange,

1082
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 2: doing community service or doing a big production or a

1083
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: show at any of the Royal shows in each big

1084
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 2: city in Australia, just giving them a really rapturous applause.

1085
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 2: You know that's that can make the difference in a

1086
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: kid's day.

1087
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, mate, stay there. We will say goodbye Affair,

1088
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: but for the moment. Farmer and Dave, you're a gun

1089
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: and we appreciate you and love the work you're doing.

1090
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: And thanks so much for your time and for hanging

1091
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: out with us on the new project.

1092
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.

1093
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: Thanks mate,