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Speaker 1: Good eighteen. Welcome to another installing the view project to

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Speaker 1: taps his necho chamber. It's Melissa, Melissa, Hello, how are you? Yeah? Good?

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've done this very recently. Why would

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Speaker 1: that deja vou vibe be happening? Do you think? Because

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Speaker 1: your microphone was doing something really strange and so we

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Speaker 1: thought we might need to redo the intro quickly. So

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Speaker 1: it makes sense that is true. Sorry for interrupting there

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Speaker 1: as I do so we've already done the interview with

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Speaker 1: farmer David. He was bloody amazing. I have a big

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Speaker 1: man crush on him, and I do have that capacity

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Speaker 1: as we all know. But he is so fucking great.

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Speaker 1: I thought he'd be really good, but it starts off

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Speaker 1: good and it gets better and better. I love this episode.

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Speaker 1: He's doing, like his backstory, his story with his story

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Speaker 1: growing up on farms. I don't want to ruin it,

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Speaker 1: but there are so many good things in here. The

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Speaker 1: work that he's done animals, he's love for animals, and

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Speaker 1: now the incredible work that he's doing with kids between

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Speaker 1: twelve and seventeen who are really struggling, very very hands on,

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Speaker 1: very at the coal face. Yeah, beautiful conversation. Beautiful dude

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Speaker 1: doing awesome work. I'm pretty sure you will be inspired

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Speaker 1: by him. Melissa, can I can I go now? Am I? A?

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Speaker 2: We? A?

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Speaker 1: We clear? We will start the show now, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's start the show. Farmer Dave, Melissa and well, what's

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Speaker 1: his actual name, Dave Graham? I think, okay, farmer Dave.

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Speaker 1: Now I don't even know where to start. I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at all your stuff. I'm like, that's quite

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Speaker 1: the fucking bio. It's not your typical LinkedIn bio. I'll

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Speaker 1: give you that. Yeah, why don't you give us your bio?

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Speaker 1: Why don't you let me get in the jacuzzi? And

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Speaker 1: why don't you give us whatever you want wherever you

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Speaker 1: want to go? Give us the David Graham slash Farmer

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Speaker 1: Dave bio that you reckon the world might be interested,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that'd be interested in all of it. But

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Speaker 1: just where.

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Speaker 2: I go, where I'm at right now is helping kids

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Speaker 2: get back on track. And you know, sometimes it's dealing

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Speaker 2: with five kids in a day, sometimes dealing with twenty

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Speaker 2: kids in a day, and whatever they need, I'm there

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Speaker 2: for them. And I think my bios kind of got

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Speaker 2: me in that stead. I grew up, like so many

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Speaker 2: Australians of the older generations, on a station about forteen

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Speaker 2: hours northwest of Sydney, about six hours west of Brisbane,

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Speaker 2: near near a town called Gundawindy. So not your typical childhood,

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Speaker 2: but the most splendid childhood of just no town for

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Speaker 2: one hundred kilometers and just growing up with your dogs,

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Speaker 2: your horses, and that was my job, is just looking

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Speaker 2: after all of them for a fairly large cattle and

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Speaker 2: cropping station about one hundred thousand acres and youngest of

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Speaker 2: eleven kids. So I was kind of a forgotten one

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Speaker 2: because by the time you get to eleven, you kind

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Speaker 2: of over it when it comes to parenting. So my

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Speaker 2: parents were quite elderly and kind of over it and tired.

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Speaker 1: Quite elderly and tired by the time they got to

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Speaker 1: you exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Dad, every time he bought another farm, he'd

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Speaker 2: have another kid to make sure that he's got slave

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Speaker 2: labor in the future to run it. So yeah, it

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Speaker 2: was an awesome childhood. And I was so fortunate to

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Speaker 2: be able to learn from your old stockmen and these

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Speaker 2: guys that have been connected to the land for their

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Speaker 2: whole lives and their whole existence and really built me

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Speaker 2: ready for a really well rounded education in the bush.

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Speaker 2: And then went off to boarding school, like you all

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Speaker 2: have to do, and that was a real sledge hammer

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Speaker 2: to the face because my first boarding school was co ed.

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Speaker 2: But then I went to another one which was an

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Speaker 2: international school and which was fantas but didn't quite have

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Speaker 2: the education that my dad wanted. He wanted a military

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Speaker 2: type education for me because he thought that I was

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Speaker 2: learning too much, and so he sent me to an

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Speaker 2: all boys grammar school. And that was a real sledgehammer.

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Speaker 2: And you know, like when you're when you're a gay person,

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Speaker 2: you're the last person to know, and I was definitely

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Speaker 2: the last person to know and found out from a

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Speaker 2: lot of my peers that I was gay. And it

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Speaker 2: was a very brutal, brutal and unkind period of my life.

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Speaker 2: But I survived it. I don't know how, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was way too many times where I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to keep living. So I really have that understanding now

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Speaker 2: with the kids that I work with, knowing exactly what

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Speaker 2: it's like when you just don't want to be alive anymore.

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Speaker 2: But luckily I had dogs and I had the bush

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Speaker 2: and I got through. And then when Jack Ruing, the

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Speaker 2: problem is when you're working for your old man's company,

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Speaker 2: the lot of the stockmen take out their frustrations on

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Speaker 2: the boss's sons. It was from the frying pan to

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Speaker 2: the fire when it came to Jack Ruing. But I

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Speaker 2: did something I shouldn't have done, and that is flogged.

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Speaker 2: Flogged a car, and with my mates we honed off

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Speaker 2: to Sydney and I came across a few modeling scouts

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Speaker 2: and they all suggested that I had what it took

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Speaker 2: to do modeling, and then I ended up saying yes

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Speaker 2: to the next one that came along. And then probably

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Speaker 2: about a week later, after returning the car, I was

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Speaker 2: modeling the catwalks of Europe, and suddenly my whole world

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Speaker 2: had changed, you know, from going from a station life

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Speaker 2: to a boarding school life. And then I was opened

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Speaker 2: up to this whole new world that I didn't know existed.

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Speaker 2: And I had a very masculine child and a very

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Speaker 2: masculine boarding school experience, and then to be opened up

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Speaker 2: to the world of fashion and meeting people from every

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Speaker 2: part of the world. And that's what happens in modeling.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've got people from Eastern Europe and the

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Speaker 2: Americas and a few Australians. But yeah, it really opened

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Speaker 2: up my idea that there was a lot more to

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Speaker 2: learn and a lot of what I've been told and

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Speaker 2: led to believe in the one party state of Southern

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Speaker 2: Queensland probably wasn't true. And I very much so went

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Speaker 2: on a journey after that. I traveled to about eighty

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Speaker 2: countries backpacking and just wanted to really find out what

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Speaker 2: the lives of other people were, because it was quite

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Speaker 2: different to what I've been told as a kid how

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Speaker 2: the world was, you know, it was always at them

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Speaker 2: and us type childhood. But that kind of really exploded

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Speaker 2: my ability to know that, you know, you've always got

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Speaker 2: to do something, to know something.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing, mate. That is such a bloody incredible story.

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Speaker 1: And isn't it funny how like when you grow up

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Speaker 1: in like you grew up in a very specific environment

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Speaker 1: with you know, like not too many people grew up

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Speaker 1: in that environment on a hundred thousand acre farm with

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Speaker 1: ten siblings and who also, how old were you when

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Speaker 1: you realized you were gay? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Look when I accepted it early twenties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then but all of that, right, and but

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Speaker 1: also the programming with the education and your dad's expectation,

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Speaker 1: and I'm on something more military and these are the rules,

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Speaker 1: and you follow our rules, and this is the way

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Speaker 1: the world is, David. This is the way the world is, David.

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Speaker 1: And my way off the highway. And then then you

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Speaker 1: like in fucking hot Disneyland on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the world. It must have been like landing on Mars, mate.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was exactly that. It was like landing

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Speaker 2: on Mars. And because I had such a strong Western

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Speaker 2: Queensland accent, people thought that I was from some European

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Speaker 2: country that they'd never heard of. Like people didn't know

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Speaker 2: that I spoke English. And it was really interesting when

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Speaker 2: you know, people speak around you about you, and it

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Speaker 2: was it was just it was very much spoke like

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Speaker 2: being an alien. And and you know, I had no

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Speaker 2: concept of that fashion world that for me, you know,

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Speaker 2: growing up, and as you suggested, you know, my father

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Speaker 2: was all about everything is real. You know, you're not

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Speaker 2: worth anything unless you create something or you put use food.

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Speaker 2: And then here I was at the opposite end of

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Speaker 2: the spectrum, people creating fashion, which was very not what

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Speaker 2: my dad would have said was Okay.

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Speaker 1: I can imagine you going, Dad, I'm in France and

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Speaker 1: I'm putting on these really fucking expensive clothes that I

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Speaker 1: don't own, and I'm whilsting down this fucking thing, doing

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Speaker 1: a couple of pirouettes, waving to a few people, and

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Speaker 1: getting a shitload of money. I bet that went down

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Speaker 1: like a cole bucket dispute.

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Speaker 2: Well, funnily enough, when I told him what I was doing,

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Speaker 2: he wouldn't shake my hand, and he actually spat on me.

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Speaker 2: And he was so disgusted that I was going to

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Speaker 2: actually do that. And he didn't spit on me in

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Speaker 2: the way that you know modern people do. It was

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Speaker 2: he absolutely did it to say that he thought what

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Speaker 2: I was doing was was was wrong, and that that yeah,

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Speaker 2: that he was He was absolutely disgusted.

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Speaker 1: By I'm sorry to hear that. What what do you think,

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Speaker 1: Like now you're a grown up having a conversation, you

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Speaker 1: look back and like you were a you know, a

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Speaker 1: young man, what do you think that was about for

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Speaker 1: your dad?

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Speaker 2: Losing his best slave laborer? I think was one big

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Speaker 2: part of it, because you know I was I was

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Speaker 2: seven day a weeker. You would, you know, camp in

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Speaker 2: the tractor if we were cultivating or for harvesting or planting.

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Speaker 2: You know, you would do that for three four and

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Speaker 2: sometimes up to six weeks, depending on how many acres

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Speaker 2: we were doing. Or if I was out on a

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Speaker 2: on a driving job, you know, would be three months

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Speaker 2: on the back of horse horses. So he was losing, losing,

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Speaker 2: I think, one of his best workers. But the other

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Speaker 2: thing was he he's just generation, you know, the pre war,

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Speaker 2: pre World War two generation where everything had to be real,

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Speaker 2: and you know, he grew up in a time of

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Speaker 2: the depression, and then of course lived through the war

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Speaker 2: when there was very very few men working, so children

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Speaker 2: had to work, and of course women had to work

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Speaker 2: where they hadn't done in generations before. So anything that

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Speaker 2: was so perfluous, he thought, And to a degree still

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Speaker 2: I suppose thinks that it's just it's wrong, and it's

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Speaker 2: the devil's work.

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Speaker 1: I suppose, Wow, I'm going to say welcome back, even

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Speaker 1: though you technically didn't know I was going. Everyone I

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Speaker 1: was because Lessa sent me a message, which she never does,

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Speaker 1: a little across my screens said your microphone's dogshit, or

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Speaker 1: something to that effect. And where nothing if not super professional.

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Speaker 1: Dave as you can imagine farmer Dave's nothing but impressed

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Speaker 1: so far? Mate, how did that? Just getting back to

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Speaker 1: your dad, because you work with kids, and I guess

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Speaker 1: for some kids you're a bit of a father figure

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Speaker 1: or at least a mentor teacher role model, someone they

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Speaker 1: look up to and also tell me to get rooted

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Speaker 1: and not talk about anything you don't want to. But

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Speaker 1: how did that end up with your dad as you

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Speaker 1: got older that relationship?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, like right now, being vulnerable is really important.

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Speaker 2: That's what I teach to the kids is you know,

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Speaker 2: we've got to share us or it's got to share,

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Speaker 2: share what we're going through to be able to work

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Speaker 2: through it. I've always had a very complicated relationship with

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Speaker 2: my father. I think many people have complicated relationship with

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Speaker 2: their father, especially sons with their dads, I've found. But

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Speaker 2: it gives me a real understanding when I'm working with

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Speaker 2: kids who have been rejected there by their parents that

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Speaker 2: at least I can understand where they're coming from so

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Speaker 2: I can give them my baggage, so that I can

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Speaker 2: share the load of their baggage a little bit in

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Speaker 2: their experiences. But yeah, I suppose where my father and

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Speaker 2: I are now. Look, I was meant to take on

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Speaker 2: the family station. As the youngest son in my family.

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Speaker 2: That was my job. And you know, he really kept

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Speaker 2: me on a leash to come back. Whenever I did

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Speaker 2: go away and do amazing things, he would always say, well, look,

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Speaker 2: you know, you've got to get back and get serious

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Speaker 2: about it. But then, funnily enough, before I turned forty,

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Speaker 2: he he said, look, you know, well you're not going

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Speaker 2: to take on the farm. And so it was a

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Speaker 2: late in life kick in the guts that I suppose

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Speaker 2: made me realize that I've got to be free of

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Speaker 2: the expectations, whether he's putting them on me or I'm

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Speaker 2: putting them on me from my dad and those family

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Speaker 2: expectations that often you know, happen in countries like Pakistan

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Speaker 2: or Nigeria, but you know, we in the rural parts

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Speaker 2: of Australia still have those very intense family expectations. So

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Speaker 2: being free of that was probably one of the greatest

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Speaker 2: experiences of my life.

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Speaker 1: What's been for you in terms of you figuring out

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Speaker 1: who you are as a bloke and as a dad?

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Speaker 1: You're a dad? Do you have four kids or something

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Speaker 1: that I read it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, new babies well, now.

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Speaker 1: Like dad, partner, brother, you know, businessman, teacher, meant like

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Speaker 1: where in the middle of all of that, where do

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Speaker 1: you get your sense of self from, like your identity

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Speaker 1: who you are? Or is that not something that you

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Speaker 1: think about?

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Speaker 2: Oh look, Craig, I think dropping the burden of ego

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Speaker 2: was an amazing thing that I got to do quite

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Speaker 2: some time ago, you know, because I had that big

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Speaker 2: thing at such a young age, you know, nineteen twenty

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Speaker 2: modeling all around the world and it's all about the

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Speaker 2: way you look. I was able to shed that and

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Speaker 2: because I was an extremely anxious person, you know, like

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Speaker 2: I missed most of Grade twelve because I was hiding

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Speaker 2: in the honey or hiding in the library because I'm

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Speaker 2: so nervous to go into a classroom full of other

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Speaker 2: other people. You know. Modeling freed me from that anxiety,

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Speaker 2: But then it also allowed me to be free of

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Speaker 2: that burden that ego really gives us, you know, like

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Speaker 2: and especially men. You know, I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: a testosterone or what it is, but this ego just

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Speaker 2: comes down on us and forces us to do things

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Speaker 2: that we probably wouldn't do without Without that, so I

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Speaker 2: was able to release myself from from ego and just

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Speaker 2: do things because it's right or because it needs to

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Speaker 2: be done, as opposed to having that front. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you work with teenage boys and even to a

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Speaker 2: bigger extent, you know the girls that I get to

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Speaker 2: work with, you know, having that front is so so important.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's all about making sure that you don't

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Speaker 2: have any shame and avoiding things because of how everyone

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Speaker 2: else thinks. So being able to get rid of all

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Speaker 2: of those facades a very very long time ago and

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Speaker 2: get to live my life without those facades, I think

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Speaker 2: is really really important.

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Speaker 1: I reckon, there's about seventy percent of my audience leaning in,

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Speaker 1: going mate, how did you do that? How did you

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Speaker 1: get because I mean, yeah, how did you let go

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Speaker 1: of ego? What is that? I kind of know what

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Speaker 1: it means, but what does it mean for you? How

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Speaker 1: did you do that? Was that a spiritual process? Was

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Speaker 1: that a decision? Was that a self awareness moment in time?

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Speaker 1: Did something happen? Tell us about that? Because that's a

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Speaker 1: fucking great achievement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I suppose there's a few things there. One is

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Speaker 2: being born being born gay and then having all the

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Speaker 2: facads and the protective mechanisms around you, going through you know,

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Speaker 2: an all boys boarding school, coming from a very very

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Speaker 2: homophobic culture, being able to break down all that and

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Speaker 2: going well, I actually want to live my life authentically.

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Speaker 2: I want to be who I am, and if people

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Speaker 2: don't like that, well that's not my problem, that's their problem.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can't change the color of my skin.

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Speaker 2: I can't change my sexuality, but what I can change

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Speaker 2: is people's opinions of me, just through living my life

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Speaker 2: authentically and when there's so much you know, lying and

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Speaker 2: deceit back when I was dealing with my sexuality, been

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Speaker 2: free of that lying and being free of the deceit

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Speaker 2: and being honest I think was the first big breakthrough

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Speaker 2: for me personally. Not everyone gets to go from straight

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Speaker 2: to gay and be very happy in both camps. But

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Speaker 2: I was really, really fortunate to have been had that

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Speaker 2: transition and that amount of self awareness that comes with

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Speaker 2: it and having to break through such an extreme cultural

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Speaker 2: barrier was pretty powerful. And you know, I also went

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Speaker 2: on a show with three million people Watch Your Big

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Speaker 2: Brother back in two thousand and six really say boom,

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Speaker 2: this is me, this is who I am, and I'm

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Speaker 2: with it. If you're not. Well, I'm sorry, but it's

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Speaker 2: not my issue. That's going to be yours that you

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Speaker 2: need to work through. But I'm going to live my

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Speaker 2: life who I am. I'm not a not a broken

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Speaker 2: straight man. I'm a proud gay man. So that was

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Speaker 2: really powerful to be able to say that at twenty six.

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Speaker 2: And I suppose moving through that. You know, I've had

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Speaker 2: many businesses that were extremely successful and they failed, but

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Speaker 2: that getting up experience and know that getting back up

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Speaker 2: and going all is not lost. And I think you know,

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Speaker 2: a Rhodesian teacher told me that when he was an immigrant,

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Speaker 2: and obviously he'd lost everything when he rest left Rhodija

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Speaker 2: during the Bush War, which is obviously now Zimbabwe, but he,

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Speaker 2: you know, he very much so said to me one

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Speaker 2: day when I was hiding in the bathroom and he

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Speaker 2: came down to try and find me, he just said, look,

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Speaker 2: all's not lost, mate, All's not lost. You have the

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Speaker 2: ability from this moment in every other moment moving forward

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Speaker 2: to choose how you want to be and if you

325
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Speaker 2: want to stay in here you can, but just remember

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Speaker 2: all is not lost. And that was a beautiful thing

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Speaker 2: for that man to say to me.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like a metaphor, if you want to stay

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Speaker 1: in this little room, this little isolated, disconnected, no one

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Speaker 1: to talk to, room, you can you extrapolate that to

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Speaker 1: the world and what you've done since. And also when

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Speaker 1: you think about like being you, whoever you are, whatever,

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Speaker 1: that means, being authentically you in the world, whether it's Melissa, you, me,

334
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Speaker 1: or anyone listening to this. But how fucking exhausting is

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Speaker 1: it pretending to be someone you're not?

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine George Santos like the array of lies

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Speaker 2: that he has around, all of those personas that he has,

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Speaker 2: and I think for him, you know, again, growing up,

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Speaker 2: gaining a conservative culture that can do that to you.

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Speaker 2: You have to put all these masks on, and you

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Speaker 2: have to put all this ego in front of you.

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Speaker 2: Hard to walk back from that. But when you can

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Speaker 2: turf all that to the side and go, you know,

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Speaker 2: when someone says, how are you feeling today, and you

345
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Speaker 2: can actually be honest, But then do you be genuinely

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Speaker 2: interested in how they're feeling? I think there's a way

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Speaker 2: to break through all of that burden of ego that

348
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Speaker 2: we all carry.

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Speaker 1: And I bet, I mean, I'm sure there are a

350
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Speaker 1: few little speed humbs here and there, because you're normal

351
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Speaker 1: in life and the world's not perfect. But I bet

352
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Speaker 1: for the most part you went, why the fuck didn't

353
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Speaker 1: I do that five years ago?

354
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Speaker 2: Oh? Look, I checked myself all the time, and I

355
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,959
Speaker 2: encourage the young people that I work with to. You know,

356
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Speaker 2: we check ourselves all the time. Whenever we're going off

357
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Speaker 2: on tangents where we know that we're not being real

358
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Speaker 2: or not being grounded. Well, then yeah, you've got to

359
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 2: check yourself continuously. It's daily process.

360
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Speaker 1: It's funny with dudes too, I mean everyone, but with

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Speaker 1: men too because of the ego thing and the testosterone

362
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Speaker 1: thing and the cultural and the programming. Like what your

363
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 1: dad expected of you? How many sisters did you have?

364
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Speaker 2: By the way, Yeah, sisters, five brothers now.

365
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Speaker 1: No disrespect, but I bet dad wasn't expecting any of

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Speaker 1: the girls to take over the farm, right, No, he

367
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Speaker 1: was stereotypically.

368
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Speaker 2: But so the girls are in the house and the

369
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Speaker 2: boys are out in the fields, except if there was

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Speaker 2: stick picking to do, then everyone was out picking sticks. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is that like we

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Speaker 1: we kind of get intentionally or not for better or worse,

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Speaker 1: often worse, like shoved into these stereotypical, you know, rolls

374
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Speaker 1: or sluts, and then you've kind of like you you

375
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Speaker 1: are a version of your parents, or a version of

376
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Speaker 1: your friends or peers, or your culture or your religion

377
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 1: or the programming from the media or social media these days.

378
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Speaker 1: And then in the middle of that, it's try. It's

379
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Speaker 1: hard to and also dad, because I guess everyone wants

380
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Speaker 1: to belong to something, right. And then if all of

381
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Speaker 1: a sudden you go, hey, everyone, I've been pretending I'm

382
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: actually gay, or I actually fucking hate bowling everyone on

383
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 1: Friday nights, I fucking hate it. Also I'm a vegetarian

384
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Speaker 1: or my carnival friends.

385
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Speaker 3: Sorry fucking I don't, you know whatever, And there's that

386
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 3: it takes a lot of courage to go I actually,

387
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Speaker 3: you know, I still want to be loved and needed

388
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Speaker 3: and wanted and valued and connected, but I'm not in

389
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Speaker 3: that group.

390
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Speaker 1: I'm not in the heterosexual group. Sorry dudes, sorry whoever,

391
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Speaker 1: I'm not like that.

392
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Speaker 2: And you don't have to change everyone around you, you know. Like, No,

393
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Speaker 2: when I accepted myself as gay, I didn't want everyone

394
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Speaker 2: around me to become gay. I think that's about.

395
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Speaker 1: Ah, I thought that's how it worked. No, No, write

396
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: that down.

397
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Speaker 2: But you know, it's one of those things that when

398
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Speaker 2: you accept the new you, you don't have to make

399
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 2: everyone else change. You know that. The one thing that

400
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 2: I've always noticed when people do go through these periods

401
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 2: of being the new authentic self, they're like, well, everyone

402
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 2: else needs to come on my journey with me. It's

403
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, you do your boom if you've

404
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 2: become a vegan, not everyone around you needs to be

405
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: a vegan as well. Like you, just do you and

406
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: and shine as yourself. You don't have to have you

407
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: don't have to recreate your own tribe. You can find

408
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: your new tribe. But there's nothing wrong with being a

409
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: vegan with fifteen in your circle of friends. Fifteen that

410
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: are they're not vegan.

411
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also, I mean this is we've spoken about

412
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: this lately on the show, is just like what about

413
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: having friends where whether it's politically or religiously or culturally

414
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: or sociologically or philosophically, they think A and you think B.

415
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: And you vote liberal and I vote labor. And you've

416
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: barracked for this team and I barrack for that team.

417
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: And you know, I went, I went and saw Avatar

418
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: with one of my best mates a couple of weeks ago,

419
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: and he's gay and I'm not. And I said to

420
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 1: someone said, what are you doing like tonight? I said

421
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 1: I've got a date and they said who with? I said, Patrick,

422
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: We're going to the Avatar And it kind of messed

423
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: with them a bit. I go, one of is one

424
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: of the best friends, Like, that's what We're going to

425
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: see a film? Yeah, and they like almost like I

426
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 1: could see him thinking what does that mean? Though, yes, dude,

427
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: it means I'm hanging out with a friend, We're seeing

428
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: a film. But like people like is that. I'm like,

429
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: come on, come on.

430
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: The human brain, we we just need to box things,

431
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 2: you know. And it's it's the the you know, this

432
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: huge brain that we have that that any woman has

433
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Speaker 2: ever had a child knows exactly how big the brain is.

434
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: But this huge brain that we have just needs to

435
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: box things so we can move on. You know, there's

436
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: so much information out there that the human brain is

437
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: a box box, box box, so it can just focus

438
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 2: on what's what's important. But I think, you know, we

439
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 2: had this thirty years of world libertism and where everyone

440
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: was free, and you know, the world's just gone forward

441
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 2: in such giant leaps, and you know, poverty has really

442
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: gone by the wayside for the vast majority of the planet.

443
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: So he's just had this this amazing awakening period. But

444
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: then I think, now we're going back into the boxes.

445
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 2: And I think social media, which was meant to flourish ideas,

446
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 2: is making people think smaller and going back into those

447
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 2: comfortable tribes. And I think you need to be uncomfortable

448
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 2: each day. And as you say, have friends that you

449
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 2: can listen to or talk with. You don't have to

450
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: agree with everyone, Like if you're in an echo chamber

451
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: of your own thoughts, that's pretty scary to me, Like

452
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: that would be the most terrifying things to me. I

453
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: want my friends to all be all be of different

454
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: silks so that we're all challenging each other but also

455
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 2: learning from each other.

456
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: Well, that's right, And if you happen to agree, cool,

457
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: and if you don't, also cool. But us being friends

458
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: is not conditional upon these five rules that we must

459
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: or these values. But you just got to have a

460
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: look at this little document before we become friends. It's

461
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: just seven pages. Just get your lawyer to check it

462
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: and just sign here, here, and here it's like, that's

463
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: not a friendship, that's a arrangement, that's a strategic something

464
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound anything like love or kindness or acceptance

465
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: or tolerance. Now, Melissa and I both dog lovers, and

466
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: you'll make us look like complete amateurs. You love humans,

467
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: you love helping humans, but you're a little bit partial

468
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: to fucking I think I think animals are your favorite people.

469
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but absolutely, yeah, tell us about your

470
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: favorite people.

471
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: Oh look, I've got Jimmy, Jimmy wandering around at my

472
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: feet right now. Look. I think dogs can teach us

473
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: so much because you know, they listen so much, and

474
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: sometimes as humans, we just want to be heard, and

475
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: especially teenagers, they just want to be heard. But look,

476
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: I've been working with dogs since I was three years old,

477
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: and training dogs since I was five. And the communication

478
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 2: that you can have without words, without the language that

479
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 2: you're that you use each day, but just focusing on

480
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: behavior and body movement and communicate through that, I think

481
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: is something special because it tunes you in to a

482
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: whole new level of communication. And that's why I love

483
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: animals so much, regardless of the species, but definitely dogs

484
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 2: because you know, they were a human construct. We created them,

485
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: what fifteen thousand years ago to work with us and

486
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: to be our best mates, and haven't they done a

487
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: bloody good job on that front?

488
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: And isn't it bizarre? Correct me if I'm wrong, because

489
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm no animalologist, clearly, but didn't didn't we start

490
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand years ago with a couple of wolves and

491
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: just breeding, breeding, breeding, pick and choose, pick and choose,

492
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: pick and choose the most docile and friendly or the

493
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: least vicious, And we ended up with fucking spoodles.

494
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: Pretty much, pretty much, that's kind of happening.

495
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: We ended up with grudles, noodles, doodles, noodles, fucking spoodles noodles.

496
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this amazing when docility on the alley alls

497
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 2: creates colors and creates variation, and that's why dogs have

498
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: variated so much. And again, you know, most of our

499
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: domesticated species, when we choose docility or bit ability, that

500
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: ability for us to be able to manipulate them or

501
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: keep them in a minotonized or a childlike state, we

502
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 2: have the amazing variation of color and all that. And

503
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 2: you know, obviously we've proven that with silver foxes. With

504
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 2: studies done in Russia, and of course with rats and

505
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: all sorts of things that human fanciers are being breeding

506
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: over the last hundred years. So docility and variation comes,

507
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: and we humans love variation. At the moment, the human

508
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: seems to absolutely love anything that's got a bit of

509
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: poodle in it.

510
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: What's that about?

511
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I don't know. I think we all just

512
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: are missing our teddies, And especially during the lockdown period

513
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: when a million new dogs joined us th earlier, I

514
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 2: think three quarters of those were oodles of some scription

515
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 2: because we all just needed our teddy from our childhood.

516
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: Again, that's so funny, that's maybe that's maybe it? So

517
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: you you, I don't know, was it I read? I

518
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: can't remember off the top of my head, but like,

519
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: was it nine or eight or nine or ten years ago?

520
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: You opened basically Disneyland for dogs?

521
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 2: Yeah?

522
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: Tell us about what was that and what was that about?

523
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah? So obviously working with dogs forever traveling the world,

524
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: you know, you see the interactions of different peoples with

525
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: their dogs, beating the amazon a beat in Siberia or

526
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: beating the Himalayas, and dogs are such an integral part

527
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: to the human experience and you know, dogs have gotten

528
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: me through everything, but it you know, minus twenty degrees

529
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: in Mongolia, are in a tent. You know, if I

530
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: didn't have three dogs under the reindeer pelts with me,

531
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: I would have absolutely frozen. But about ten years ago

532
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: I was training dogs to do some search and rescue

533
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: and trying them. Had to jump out of planes, you know,

534
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: on my person, and I had a terrible, terrible parachuting

535
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: accident and was in a wheelchair for about a year

536
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: and broken hands, broken everything. So prior to that period,

537
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: I'd used force training, which is, you know, you compel

538
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: a dog to do something. A dog does something wrong,

539
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: you growl at it, and I'm shamed to say it,

540
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: but you know, training stock dogs, i'd use shop collars,

541
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: I'd kick the kick dogs, throwing stones at dogs, because

542
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: all about getting the job done, you know, I'd very

543
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: much so had that mindset from my family and the

544
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: culture that I grew up in. But when you're in

545
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: a wheelchair and your hands don't work. Look, my parents

546
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: sent me a kelpie from the farm, and because I

547
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: couldn't obviously be on the farm, I was too much

548
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: of a burden, and so I was living in the

549
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: city in my wheelchair, and this dog, you know, if

550
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: it did anything wrong, I couldn't do anything about it.

551
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: But I could still flick at a treat. So I

552
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: did what we call positive reinforcement quadrant, which is click

553
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: and treat. You know, the dog does something you like,

554
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: you give it a treat. And I was got through

555
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: my black dog, and got through my severe depression of

556
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: being someone that loves to do four thousand things at

557
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: once and was completely in this series of casts and

558
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: unable to do anything. But you know, I was able

559
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: to get my dog to get my toothbrush, to open

560
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: the door, to be able to go and get whatever

561
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: it was that I needed the dog to do, even

562
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: to grab my blanket, to open up my bed so

563
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: I could jump in bed. And then when I got

564
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: a little bit more mobile, she would have a little cart,

565
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: would go to the shops and I would put all

566
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: the shopping in it. She just did everything for me,

567
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 2: and I realized that I absolutely owed my life to dogs,

568
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: be it on the station, getting through the droughts, or

569
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: doing all the droving, or as I say, up in

570
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: the frozen territories of Mongolia. And then at that period

571
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: of time, through that terrible Black dog period. So I

572
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: wanted people to experience the absolute joy of dogs, but

573
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: doing in more kinder, more so lies based way, but

574
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: also be able to honor all the different breeds that

575
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: we humans have created, from the kelpie with sheep herding,

576
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: to the greyhound with racing, or the whippet with racing,

577
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: to all the water dogs. And so yeah, we built

578
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: this disneyland that had about twenty sports that people could

579
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: do with their dogs, and also wanted them to understand

580
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: that you don't have to incarcerate a dog if it

581
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: hasn't worked for a family. You know, you think of

582
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: the typical shelter back then was very much so a

583
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: meter by two meters sell and like that's a like

584
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: why if we made the wrong choice or whatever reason,

585
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: a dog's going to a shelter, why are they in

586
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 2: a living condition like a jail. They've done nothing wrong.

587
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: So we had a five acres of free range living

588
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: for the dogs and they had pools, they had jungle gyms,

589
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 2: they had absolutely everything, plus access to all the sports.

590
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: So I take a lot of dogs from shelter, has

591
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: allowed them to become a dog so that they didn't have

592
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: those stereotypical enough they were self mutilating, or if they

593
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: were jumping against the cages, or if they were attacking people,

594
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: because they just become stereotypic in that cell. Often back

595
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: then they would just put the dog down right because

596
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: of behavioral problems. They couldn't rehome it, but they would

597
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: come learn how to be a dog again, and then

598
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: very quickly they would be re home back at the shelter.

599
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: So it was a place where I think about fifteen

600
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: thousand people from Sydney came to to learn or to

601
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: have fun with their dogs. And that was really me

602
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: giving back to dogs to say, hey, thanks for allowing

603
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: me to live my life.

604
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: Wow, I have a weird question, but there's a point.

605
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: What color was the kelpie as.

606
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: You're black and tan with a big white chest.

607
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: So a black dog helped you get through the black dog?

608
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: Funny enough, Yeah, I never thought of that.

609
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: Yes, you're welcome. You can use that right about Rough

610
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: Track mate.

611
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: So Rough Track is a place where kids can come

612
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: to get their lives back on track and make the

613
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: most out of their lives. So kids come to us

614
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: via the police, They come to us via referrals from

615
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: different care agencies, from schools, from families that just aren't coping,

616
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: and it's really a place that we promise them three

617
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: things that will keep them alife, that will keep them

618
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: out of prison, and we'll give them skills for a

619
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: secure future. And those skills come right down to the

620
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: simple basics how to deal with the stressful situation. And

621
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 2: that strestful situation could be absolutely anything been spoken to

622
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: by another person going to a job interview. So we

623
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: do a lot on communication, a lot on anger management,

624
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: a lot on dealing with anxiety, dealing with depression, and

625
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: we do it all through a very unique way of

626
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: being farm based. So they're touching the earth, they're growing crops,

627
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: they're growing vegetables, they're working with dogs. Every single day.

628
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: We do a lot of dog work, so it's out

629
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 2: walking your dogs, so learning about relif relationships. You know,

630
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: I've got a loose leash and your dog's on a

631
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,479
Speaker 2: loose leash. That says a lot about your ability in

632
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: your relationships. And then I can talk to the kids

633
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 2: in action, so you're not just sitting there having a

634
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: conversation like a therapist does or a counselor, because often

635
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: teenagers just don't like that situation. We're having conversations, which

636
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: a real world is a leash really tight. You know,

637
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: what relationship do you have at the moment where you

638
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: feel like you've been dragged along? And then the kid

639
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: can open up and then soon enough, you know, we

640
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: can have that dog on a loose lead, and they

641
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: feel so much better, and it's like, hey, you know,

642
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 2: maybe you could try this or try that, or what

643
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: do you reckon? You could try and then you're guiding

644
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: the kid into a conversation where they can communicate more

645
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: effectively but also acknowledge how they can improve their relationships

646
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: just by simply walking your dog on a leash, you know.

647
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: And I'll have ten, fifteen or twenty kids out walking dogs,

648
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: and I'll just jump from one to the next, and

649
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: then we can reflect on what's going on. Then we

650
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: all meet in the bush and which our bush classroom,

651
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 2: all these logs, and they just sit there with their

652
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 2: dog and we can take in the world, do a

653
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: little bit of meditation. We're taking the colors, the smells,

654
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 2: and we can just ease their minds and rest their

655
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: minds for a little bit. And you know what, that's

656
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 2: the first twenty minutes of being in rough track. So's

657
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: it's an amazing place, but it's all about making sure

658
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: that we have kids that get to live the life

659
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: that I've got to live.

660
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: Well, that's bloody incredible. I'm trying to visualize, like I'm

661
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: getting lost in the story. I'm not thinking about what's

662
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: my next question. I'm going I want to go there,

663
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: I want to sit in the bush, I want to

664
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: walk a dog. I want to get here or her

665
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: on it. Loosely, how does it like? Do they come

666
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: three days? Do they is it?

667
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: Like?

668
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: What is that a program that goes for an extended

669
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: period of time? Like, how does it work?

670
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: Like? Yeah, So we have the core kids that are

671
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: continuing on from last year. So I think there's about

672
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: there's about fifteen of those that are continuing on and

673
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 2: they'll be with us for a five or three five

674
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: or three days and a week, and then we have

675
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: what we call our roundyard kids. In roundyard, for anyone

676
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: that's ever been on a farm or seen a seen

677
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: cheap hurting demonstrations, it's the dog on the opposite side

678
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: and bringing sheep back to you or moving in a

679
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: circular motion. And that's one of the fundamental trainings that

680
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: we do is teaching kids' perspectives. They understand what it's

681
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: like from someone else's point of view, which a lot

682
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: of the kids that come to us haven't learnt what

683
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, and that's why, you know, often

684
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: they can be violental, steal or hurt other people because

685
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: they really don't have the hole wearing someone else's shoes

686
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: point of view. So that perspective is the roundyard project

687
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: that goes ten weeks and the kids usually come like

688
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: you know, some of the ones that came today, hoodies on,

689
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: heads down, it's bought it hot, right, but you know,

690
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 2: they're all very aged within themselves and angry at the world.

691
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 2: And what we try I do over a very very

692
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: short period of time is get them to express themselves,

693
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: get them to communicate effectively, and to trust us. And

694
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: we do that all through the dogs and also to

695
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: be responsible. The first thing I do when they arrive

696
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 2: is pick up the dog shit, you know, clean out

697
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 2: the dog's waters, make sure the dogs okay, connect with

698
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: the dog, do a little bit of training with the dog,

699
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: bond with the dog, and then I can work with

700
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: them really, really easily because the dogs are already created that

701
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 2: Lil opening that I can peek in and say, okay,

702
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: I'm following. How are you doing?

703
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: How many dogs do you have?

704
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: Mate, ah? Between twenty and thirty. I'm not going to

705
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: give you an exact number, because you know, you always

706
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: feel a bit crazy dog man if you give an

707
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: exact number.

708
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: But I don't like that. Once you get over five,

709
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: you're a crazy dog man. So don't fucking worry about

710
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: the number, like only twenty six, Craig, I'm completely sane. Yeah,

711
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: but you're not in a good way.

712
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is that I reckon that look a

713
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: lot of our sisters because we're part of a wider

714
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: tracker network from Queensland right across New South Wales and

715
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 2: there's lots of these programs. Well I should say lots,

716
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 2: there's eleven of these programs. We're a little bit different

717
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: because every kid gets a dog in our program. I

718
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: think with the big city that Sydney is, there's a

719
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 2: lot of disconnect and I really want the kids to connect,

720
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: or really want them to find that very quickly. In

721
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: our program. We don't have the smaller town headspace that

722
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: a lot of our sister programs have because we're in

723
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 2: such a big disconnected city. Our kids are so disconnected

724
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 2: from school or family or culture that them working with

725
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: a single dog for the entire ten week program, I

726
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: think is so valuable because they've got to have that relationship.

727
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 2: And at the end of the period, Craig, this is

728
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: where it gets interesting. And everyone always has the same question,

729
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: and I hope jumping into you, but do they get

730
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: to keep the dog? And the answer is no, because

731
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: a lot of our kids come from quite violent homes. Sic.

732
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: Violence is just a part of life. And one of

733
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: the skills that I want each young person that comes

734
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: to us to take away is your ability to absolutely

735
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: love something, be so in love with a dog because

736
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: they can't with a dog. They sleep with a dog

737
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: in their swags when we're off doing trips or shows

738
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: with their dogs, so they're really bonded with the dogs.

739
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: But I want them to know that it's okay to

740
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: let go, and that skill, I think is something that

741
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: is really lacking in a lot of the young people

742
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 2: that will come to us, is learning that skill to

743
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: love and let go as opposed to what I need

744
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: you and I'll force you to be with me.

745
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: Wow, there's so many body variables in this I'm thinking

746
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: about So is there a Davies there If so, when

747
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: you said the people are coming back from last year

748
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: which are out three to five day are weekers?

749
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah?

750
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: Whatever that means? How are they are they kind of ongoing?

751
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: Who are they versus the people that come in and

752
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: out for ten weeks.

753
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: Well, they're our amazing young people that still need more

754
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 2: of the program. They can't go back into education. So

755
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: my big goal for the kids is there's only two

756
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: ways to leave rough Track, and that is full time

757
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: educational full time employment. Other than that, you're staying with me,

758
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 2: and I'm going to get you to that point that

759
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: you are absolutely ready. And I don't want the kids

760
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: to go too early because I don't want them to

761
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: fall flat on their face and go, well, I'm not

762
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 2: going I'm never going to get a job again because

763
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: that was too terrible. You know. I want them to

764
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: be absolutely ready, which is why and I get the

765
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: kids to do live television. They do performances in front

766
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: of thirty thousand people, They do performances in front of

767
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: their own families. So I really challenge their abilities to

768
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: make sure that they have all of the boundaries pushed.

769
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: So when they do go back to school or they

770
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 2: do go into the employment world. They're absolutely ready and

771
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: they've got all the resilience and all the tools and

772
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 2: their toolkit that they can deal with any given situation.

773
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 2: So it's it's an extremely full on program to ten weeks.

774
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: But then the Core program, those kids that continue on

775
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: with us. Sometimes we'll have twenty kids continue on with us.

776
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: Sometimes we'll have, as we've got at the moment, about

777
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 2: fifteen continuing on with us. And they are the little

778
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: legends that help the other kids. It's just like a station.

779
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: You know. Most farmers you'll say, how do I train

780
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: a dog? They're like, I don't know, only trained one

781
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: when I was a kid, and then that dog's trained

782
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: all the other dogs. So people don't like it when

783
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: I like in kids to dogs, but I do. I

784
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: love dogs more than anything in the world, and I

785
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: love the kids that I work with more than anything

786
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: in the world. But the kids that continue on from Core,

787
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: they will teach the other kids everything they need to know.

788
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: And kids tend to learn better from their own mates

789
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 2: than they do it from the old people that don't

790
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 2: know anything.

791
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: So many questions. Now, firstly, you built you created a

792
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: problem for yourself because problem right, Well, here's the problem.

793
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: So you go, they're either going back in full time

794
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: education or full time employment, and if they don't stay

795
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: with me, I'll be like, fuck that, I'm staying here.

796
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: Uck employments. Cool, I'm starting on the farm with farmer Dave.

797
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: Just look it me. I'm done.

798
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a bit of an issue that we

799
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 2: did create, probably a space that kids want.

800
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: To who would want to leave, You would want to leave, Yeah,

801
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to leave, and I haven't

802
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: been been there.

803
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: So I do work them really hard. Like I've got

804
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 2: to be honest with your craiglock. When we're doing clean

805
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 2: up jobs after the floods, or we're doing bushfire fencing

806
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 2: recovery jobs, you know, we'll be working from six thirty

807
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 2: in the morning till six thirty or ninety. There's a

808
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: daylight hour. We're using it to build fences for people,

809
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: or clean up paddocks that have got crap on them

810
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: from the floods, or cleaning out people's houses. So I

811
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 2: really do work them. So there is a bit of

812
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 2: a push factor into the employment world. And the funny

813
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 2: thing is I caught up with three young blokes just

814
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: recently at a big event and I asked him, I said, oh,

815
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 2: how's work? And they're like, way easier than Rough Track,

816
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: And you know that's to me, that's awesome because I've

817
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: done my job. I've shown them you know this is fun. Yeah,

818
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: but I'm going to push you a bit further, push

819
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: you a bit further, push a bit further, so when

820
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: they do go into a job, it's a breeze. You know.

821
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: I want them to ask to get into that job

822
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: and go, wow, this is this is really easy? What

823
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: was I worried about or what is you know my

824
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: family members that are n't employed because some of my

825
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: kids got multi generational unemployment. You know, I want them

826
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: to go in like a breeze because there's a lot

827
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 2: of pressure put on them and fear about a job.

828
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: Much easier to go on the doll or much easier

829
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: just to stay at home and do drugs, you know.

830
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 2: So it's it's really pushing them every which way I

831
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: can within the safety wrap around that is rough Track,

832
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: so that when they go out into that job world,

833
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: they're just like, whoa.

834
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: How long had they amazing? How long before? You know?

835
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: So they come in today the new group hands in

836
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: the pocket, hoodies, fucking looking at their feet. Everyone's a

837
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: fucking idiot. No one knows anything. You can all get

838
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: rooted and fuck you and I'm the toughest and whatever.

839
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: How long before that becomes where they're you know, they're

840
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: starting to integrate, they've made a friend or two, they're

841
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: opening up a little bit, and there's you know, it's

842
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: a bit warmer and less chaotic. Yeah.

843
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: So in our program, it usually takes up to about

844
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: three weeks, and they're real hard nuts to crack three weeks.

845
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 2: But it's really I've got to get them here every day.

846
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 2: So if i can get them here the two days

847
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: a week that the Roundyard kids come, so Tuesdays and Thursdays,

848
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: it's usually things start to change by week two. Then

849
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 2: by week three three, they really are those all those

850
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 2: barriers are gone. They've got their heads up there. Certainly

851
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: the hoodies are off and they're communicating with each other.

852
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: They're having fun. They're not just going to come and

853
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 2: then fight straight on. You know how they are in

854
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: the first.

855
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 1: Week, don't fucking look me, oh.

856
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 2: Cracky like they Yeah. Yeah, the first week is just like,

857
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: oh my god, here we go again, and do you.

858
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: Have many big lumps working for you that can kind

859
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: of just step in the breach there and go. Listen.

860
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: Listen Champ and listen, Sugar Ray listen. Mike Tyson said,

861
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: all the fuck down. Do you have anyone that can

862
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: kind of manage that or do you have to do that?

863
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I always take any punches. If if a

864
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: punch is going to come and look, I'll just hug

865
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: the young person. I'll hug them. I'll move them to

866
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: a new place. And so you know, it's always about redirecting.

867
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: It's no different to dogs. It's just redirect get them

868
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: interested in something else, get the energy out whatever's been

869
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: pent up. I mean, you know, they're just dealing with

870
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: the anxieties that are building up in them. There are

871
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: adrenaline is going through their system. They've got to get

872
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: rid of it. So I'll just redirect them off somewhere else.

873
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 2: And if they whack me or try and stab me

874
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: for a bit, when that's okay. But then the main

875
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: thing that I get through to them is that they

876
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 2: are loved and they are valued, and they are heard

877
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: and come over here because I really want to. I

878
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: want to hear what's going on with you, and then

879
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: you know, the tears will come and again oftentimes that

880
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: anger is usually just a whole heap of hurt that

881
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: they've got. The hurt people hurt people. Well, these kids

882
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: really been hurt by people. You know, I would would

883
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: never try and tell you what some of these kids

884
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: have been through, but you just have your most terrible thoughts,

885
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 2: and that's what a lot of our kids have been through,

886
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: you know, the most terrible situations that people have done

887
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: to them. So they're carrying a lot of hurt and

888
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: sometimes all they know is to put that hurt on

889
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: someone else. So my job is to find a place

890
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: for them to be able to release that pain, but

891
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: also manage that pain and have the skills so that

892
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 2: when they're triggered by it again, they've got a whole

893
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: array of tools and their tool get to go. You

894
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 2: know what, I can get myself out of this situation

895
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 2: so that I'm not hurt and no one else is hurt.

896
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: You are quite unique. Do you know what a great

897
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: bloke you are? I know you don't like compliments probably,

898
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: but what you do is fucking amazing. Do you know that?

899
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: Well? Thanks man, But I mean like and.

900
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: I know I know it's not about you. I know,

901
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: it's about the kids, and I know that, But truly, dude,

902
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: you are true. I meet a lot of cool people

903
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: and you are right up there like you inspire me,

904
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: Like I'm proud of you, and I don't even know you.

905
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: The shit that you do is because like it's messy,

906
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: it's not uncomfortable. I mean, it's not comfortable. I'm sure

907
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: it's I'm sure there's many times where it's somewhere between

908
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: dangerous and just fucking shitty and unrelenting. And but then

909
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about loving these kids who are trying to

910
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: stab you or hit you. What is that about? Where

911
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: does that come from? Is that something you've developed or

912
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: is that you? Is that innate?

913
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: It could be, it could be innate. But look, when

914
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: I was a little kid and I had to manage

915
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen or twenty stock dogs, all different stockmen, right,

916
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: so you know, like I'd have to manage the camp

917
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: of dogs, put them away, feed them, to let them

918
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: all all that sort of stuff, and pick up all

919
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: their dogshit. Was I started doing that at three years

920
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: of age, so I was a little tiny thing. So

921
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: I had to learn very quick how to manage dogs

922
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: and they've got teeth right softable.

923
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they can be unpredictable and fierce and yeah.

924
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 2: So I learned a lot of ways of how to

925
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 2: redirect anger and anxiety back then, and how to move

926
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 2: things around and create flow systems from a very very

927
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: young age. And of course having five brothers and five sisters,

928
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: you learn how to do it with humans as well.

929
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 2: And then going to boarding school, you really learn and

930
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: you see what works and what doesn't work. And the

931
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: one thing that I think consistently never really worked was

932
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: when we punish people, especially young people that don't have

933
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: the tool kits or the cognitive ability to see around

934
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: corners or look in highsight. They just don't have hindsight

935
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: to look upon. So it's very much so about always

936
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: rewarding the good behaviors and always looking for the gold.

937
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: You know, there's always a lot of shit for a

938
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,959
Speaker 2: gold miner to go through. And I'm like that fossica

939
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: that got off the boat from California into the Australian

940
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: out back and he walked how many weeks and weeks

941
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 2: and weeks to get to the gold field and that

942
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 2: still had the gold fever. Keep searching for that gold

943
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: and that's what I do with these kids. Is no

944
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 2: matter how many times they tell me to fuck off,

945
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: no matter how many times they just totally ignore me

946
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: and give me absolutely nothing, I'm just looking for that gold.

947
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 2: As soon as I see that little shine, then I

948
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 2: feel alive because I know that I can work with

949
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 2: this kid, because this kid, as every kid, is worth

950
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: having the wonderful life that I've had. Like when you've

951
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: seen death like I have, and sometimes at your own

952
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 2: in hand, which is you know as I look back

953
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: and I go, thank God, I didn't do that. But

954
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: when you when you see that this kid really does

955
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: have something that they want to let you in, I

956
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: jump in there like.

957
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: That fossica wown.

958
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 2: I mind that gold, and you know what it's It's

959
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 2: all about just rewarding that good behavior because very quickly

960
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 2: all those terrible things that often teenagers throw out the world.

961
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: I mean, we've all met one, we were one, can

962
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: be assholes. But the thing is that I've given an

963
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: opportunity to be something else. There is no greater joy

964
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: than when you get a team agent to choose something

965
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: else than being an asshole.

966
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 1: Fucking brilliant. And also, by the way, leadership training can

967
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: start at three. Everyone I did for Dave, he was

968
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: in management at three, who was head of canine resources

969
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: including picking up dog shit, feeding, grooming. Wow, so how

970
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 1: do that go down at the dinner table? Are you

971
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: up the end? Who can't quite see over the top

972
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: from tomorrow you're in charge of the dogs?

973
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, and of course back then there was no

974
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: desex thing, so all undersexed males going for each other,

975
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: all undersex females going for each other. Man. Of course

976
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: we all had the problems of the dingoes coming in

977
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 2: as well.

978
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've mean mayhem, mate? How when nearly done? When

979
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: early done? How does this work financially? And how can

980
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: we help? Could like to what is how does it work?

981
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: Like the people pay to go there?

982
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 2: Is it?

983
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: Government supported? Is it?

984
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: What is it?

985
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: How is it?

986
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: Well, as you guys know the old adages, we need

987
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: a village to raise kids, you know, and I work

988
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 2: in the village. We all work in the village, and

989
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: we can all point the finger and we can go.

990
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: Someone should do something about that, you know, like, oh

991
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: my garden got completely kicked over last night, mob of

992
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 2: kids walked past, or you know what's happening in at

993
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 2: Alice Springs. Everyone's pointing the finger and going someone should

994
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: do something about that. What I'm about is solutions. So

995
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: if I'm getting the kids to go and pick up rubbish,

996
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: you know, if we want to go and have a

997
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: swim somewhere, we'll spend an hour picking up rubbish, then

998
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: we'll go for a swim. You know, it's always about

999
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 2: you were the solution to whatever problem was in front

1000
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: of you. Because I got told by a nun when

1001
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 2: I was in my bush school. I pointed the finger

1002
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: and I said, oh he did this and anyway, she said,

1003
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 2: oh you've you know, she told me that one finger

1004
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: with one thumb was pointing up at Jesus. How can

1005
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 2: you point the finger at Jesus? But three fingers, that's

1006
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: the important thing. Three fingers are always pointing back at you.

1007
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 2: You know, always yourself what you can do to fix

1008
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 2: the situation before you start point the finger at someone else. So,

1009
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: my very long spill, there is anyone listening can help

1010
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 2: us out. And it costs a lot to do what

1011
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: we do. We have very very skilled staff, and we

1012
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: need very very skilled staff to do what we do

1013
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 2: with our young people and to get them where they

1014
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 2: need to go. We've got to take them right around

1015
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: the country to expand their worldview as my worldview has expanded,

1016
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: as I alluded to earlier. So if you can financially

1017
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: support us, then then absolutely please do. Just go to

1018
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: the Rough Track website if you can, come to winning

1019
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: our fundraisers throughout Sydney, or come to our shows and

1020
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: just support us at our shows, or get online and

1021
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 2: buy stuff that the kids have produced. And because we've

1022
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 2: got a lot of social enterprises which the kids, we

1023
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 2: try and employ the kids through and that's those cool

1024
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: kids that I was talking about. They're not ready for

1025
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: the job market, but we provide jobs through them right here.

1026
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you've got skills that you reckon a

1027
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: little organization that does a heck of a lot, we'll

1028
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 2: then get in contact with us. Because the big thing

1029
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 2: that we want to do this year is get our

1030
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 2: own forever farm, you know, a place that kids will

1031
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 2: always have as our home. Like many of us who

1032
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: have got farms, it's always home, even if we don't

1033
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 2: visit there. And what we want is to always have

1034
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 2: a touchstone for our kids to go. You know what,

1035
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: that's my safe place if they ever visit for the

1036
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 2: rest of their lives or not. They know that it's

1037
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: safe and it's a cure. But if we can then

1038
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: have our own forever farm and have tiny homes on

1039
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: it so the kids can actually stay there safely twenty

1040
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 2: four hours our twenty four hours a day, seven days

1041
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 2: a week, well that's that's my challenge to the village

1042
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: is be part of our village and help us get

1043
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: where we want to go and get that forever farm.

1044
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 2: And of course, with land prices, it costs a few

1045
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 2: million dollars. But you know, if each one of your

1046
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: listeners chupped in five bucks would get there real quick.

1047
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: We definitely would. By the way, everyone, rough Tracks, are

1048
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: you double F? Not ough?

1049
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 2: So?

1050
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: Are you double F rough Track? Mate? You're You're an inspiration.

1051
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: You're a great dude. I genuinely mean that we'd love

1052
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: to get you back in six months or three months

1053
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: or whenever you can, because there's so much more to

1054
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 1: learn from you. I think we're going to do something.

1055
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: I think we're going to do a little something I

1056
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: might come up with and I might do a workshop

1057
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: or something. We might we might we might do a

1058
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: little fundraiser for rough Track. Everybody, So stay tuned. We're

1059
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: going to do something, a little something, and at the

1060
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: very least we're going.

1061
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: To absolutely amazing what being part of the village is.

1062
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 2: You know, we've got to do whatever it is.

1063
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: Now.

1064
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 2: I'm the one that takes the punches and the kicks,

1065
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: but I also get the joy of the hugs and

1066
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 2: the tears and the muner and but we've all got

1067
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 2: our part to play to make sure that no kid

1068
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 2: gets left behind. And if we can live in a

1069
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: country that can produce such greatness, we've also got to

1070
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: look at the cracks and make sure that no kids

1071
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: fall down on them.

1072
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, mate, congrats on what you're doing. You're awesome.

1073
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,479
Speaker 1: Hopefully you'll hear from some of my listeners jump on.

1074
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: Is it the Rough Track website.

1075
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:49,240
Speaker 2: That website or even you know, a free and easy

1076
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 2: thing to do is saying kind words. You know, when

1077
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: we put in our social media on the Rough Track

1078
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 2: Facebook page or Instagram, the kids doing things, all the

1079
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 2: kids watch it. All the kids are on there, of course,

1080
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: and if you just say kind things and you know,

1081
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: ensure that the kids know that people are watching and

1082
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 2: people care. That's another big way. And when the kids

1083
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 2: are all out and about it in their bright orange

1084
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: doing community service or doing a big production or a

1085
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: show at any of the Royal shows in each big

1086
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 2: city in Australia, just giving them a really rapturous applause.

1087
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 2: You know that's that going to make the difference in

1088
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:23,439
Speaker 2: a kid's day.

1089
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, mate, stay there. We will say goodbye affair,

1090
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: but for the moment, Farmer Dave, you're a gun and

1091
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: we appreciate you and love the work you're doing. And

1092
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: thanks so much for your time and for hanging out

1093
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: with us on the You project.

1094
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.

1095
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: Thanks mate,