1 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:08,669 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the FEAR & GREED Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,789 --> 00:00:12,030 Sean Aylmer: Private credit is a very hot topic in investing right 3 00:00:12,030 --> 00:00:15,059 Sean Aylmer: now. More investors seem to be considering it as an 4 00:00:15,059 --> 00:00:17,639 Sean Aylmer: asset class, and it certainly provides access to some pretty 5 00:00:17,639 --> 00:00:21,180 Sean Aylmer: interesting opportunities, but there's still a bit of misinformation and 6 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:24,780 Sean Aylmer: confusion out there. So that's what today's interview is all 7 00:00:24,780 --> 00:00:28,019 Sean Aylmer: about, busting some of the myths about private credit. Of 8 00:00:28,020 --> 00:00:30,418 Sean Aylmer: course, this is general information only and you should always 9 00:00:30,420 --> 00:00:34,289 Sean Aylmer: seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Roger Montgomery is 10 00:00:34,289 --> 00:00:38,159 Sean Aylmer: the founder and Chief Investment Officer at Montgomery Investment Management, 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,339 Sean Aylmer: a great supporter of this podcast, offering investors access to 12 00:00:41,340 --> 00:00:44,610 Sean Aylmer: a range of managed funds, including equities, and of course, 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,159 Sean Aylmer: private credit. We've spoken to Roger plenty of times on 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,649 Sean Aylmer: FEAR & GREED. He's got more than three decades of experience 15 00:00:49,650 --> 00:00:53,820 Sean Aylmer: in funds management, equities, analysis, investment strategy, trading, stockbroking. You 16 00:00:53,820 --> 00:00:56,220 Sean Aylmer: name it, Roger's got it. Well, that's probably a bit 17 00:00:56,220 --> 00:00:58,260 Sean Aylmer: rough on you, Roger. Welcome back to FEAR & GREED. 18 00:00:58,650 --> 00:00:59,940 Roger: Great to be with you again, Sean. 19 00:01:00,330 --> 00:01:02,880 Sean Aylmer: So I've talked a fair bit about private credit on 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,519 Sean Aylmer: the podcast, so I don't want to dwell on it 21 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,789 Sean Aylmer: too much, but in 30 seconds, what is private credit? 22 00:01:09,330 --> 00:01:13,560 Roger: Look, it's lending outside the banking system and it's gaining 23 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,039 Roger: traction for a number of reasons. But one, what's happened 24 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,499 Roger: is after the GFC regulation and various banking inquiries required 25 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:26,849 Roger: or determined that banks need to be questionably strong, and 26 00:01:26,849 --> 00:01:30,300 Roger: that meant that it became more expensive for them to 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,600 Roger: lend in some of the areas that they were previously 28 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,250 Roger: lending to. And so if you'd asked me before the 29 00:01:38,250 --> 00:01:41,039 Roger: GFC, if you'd said, " Roger, I want to lend some 30 00:01:41,039 --> 00:01:43,679 Roger: money to a medium- sized Australian corporate." I would've said, " 31 00:01:43,679 --> 00:01:46,289 Roger: Sean, you've got rocks in your head. You shouldn't do 32 00:01:46,289 --> 00:01:49,530 Roger: that. Because the only companies you'd be able to lend 33 00:01:49,530 --> 00:01:52,380 Roger: to were the ones the banks had rejected." Well, that's 34 00:01:52,380 --> 00:01:55,470 Roger: not the case anymore. The banks have pulled back from 35 00:01:55,470 --> 00:01:57,960 Roger: a lot of different types of lending because it's just 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,109 Roger: not profitable or it's capital intensive, or it's too labor- 37 00:02:01,110 --> 00:02:05,309 Roger: intensive for them. It's left a big hole of about 38 00:02:05,309 --> 00:02:08,820 Roger: 200 billion Australian dollars between what the banks are willing 39 00:02:08,820 --> 00:02:12,899 Roger: to provide companies in terms of loans and what companies 40 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:17,760 Roger: need to grow. And that gap is now being filled 41 00:02:18,090 --> 00:02:21,779 Roger: by non- bank lenders, and they make up what private 42 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:22,409 Roger: credit is. 43 00:02:22,829 --> 00:02:27,210 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so there's an opportunity in a sense for investors. 44 00:02:27,870 --> 00:02:31,830 Sean Aylmer: Aura Private Credit funds, one of yours obviously fills that. 45 00:02:31,830 --> 00:02:34,800 Sean Aylmer: Without going too much into that, is it a private 46 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,839 Sean Aylmer: credit fund specifically, Aura Private Credit? 47 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,439 Roger: Yeah, it's a private credit fund. So there's two. There's 48 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,760 Roger: actually the Aura Core Income Fund for retail investors, and 49 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,810 Roger: then there's the Aura High Yield SME Fund for wholesale 50 00:02:48,810 --> 00:02:55,139 Roger: or sophisticated investors. And perhaps unusually, while this space might 51 00:02:55,139 --> 00:02:58,619 Roger: be new to a lot of investors, the Aura High 52 00:02:58,619 --> 00:03:02,400 Roger: Yield SME Fund has been running for 80 months, it's 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,630 Roger: been going for almost seven years. And in that time, 54 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,480 Roger: it's generated monthly cash income with no negative months. Now, 55 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,499 Roger: that's pretty significant. I come from an equities background, Sean. 56 00:03:16,949 --> 00:03:20,580 Roger: I'm used to volatility. I'm used to negative months, even 57 00:03:20,580 --> 00:03:23,940 Roger: negative years. And the Aura High Yield SME Fund has 58 00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:28,679 Roger: been producing positive cash income. It's generated a return of 9. 59 00:03:28,679 --> 00:03:32,669 Roger: 63% per annum since its inception over that six and 60 00:03:32,669 --> 00:03:36,059 Roger: a half odd years. And that's by the way, better 61 00:03:36,059 --> 00:03:39,810 Roger: than the ASX 200 accumulation index, and it's done it with 62 00:03:39,810 --> 00:03:41,160 Roger: zero volatility. 63 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:41,580 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 64 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,809 Roger: When we draw charts of returns, we show the stock 65 00:03:45,809 --> 00:03:48,000 Roger: market return and it goes up and it goes down 66 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,780 Roger: and it wiggles on the screen. The return of the 67 00:03:51,780 --> 00:03:57,119 Roger: Aura High Yield SME fund is a 45 degrees straight line. 68 00:03:58,380 --> 00:03:58,920 Sean Aylmer: Pretty good. 69 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,890 Roger: It's a little bit embarrassing for equity managers like myself. 70 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,980 Sean Aylmer: So Roger, you've been involved with private credit for a 71 00:04:04,980 --> 00:04:08,160 Sean Aylmer: while now. Let's go through your top five myths about 72 00:04:08,309 --> 00:04:11,070 Sean Aylmer: private credit. The first one that you've offered, the high 73 00:04:11,070 --> 00:04:14,280 Sean Aylmer: returns often mean the asset class is very high risk, 74 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,089 Sean Aylmer: not the case? 75 00:04:15,510 --> 00:04:19,229 Roger: Yeah. Look, when we partnered with Brett Craig and the 76 00:04:19,230 --> 00:04:23,070 Roger: team at Aura, he was telling us his returns and 77 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,089 Roger: me being an experienced investor, it was at 9. 6% 78 00:04:27,420 --> 00:04:30,900 Roger: or thereabouts, and I thought, oh, that just sounds risky. 79 00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:34,109 Roger: I don't think we can tell investors about that kind 80 00:04:34,110 --> 00:04:37,289 Roger: of return because they'll immediately think it's too high and 81 00:04:37,290 --> 00:04:40,740 Roger: there's something not quite right. A lot of private credit 82 00:04:40,740 --> 00:04:45,900 Roger: funds are generating similar returns, that's 7, 8, 9, 10% 83 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:49,620 Roger: returns. And while many people think it's risky, it would've 84 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:52,710 Roger: been if it was 15 years ago and you were 85 00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:57,149 Roger: lending prior to the GFC to companies that the banks 86 00:04:57,150 --> 00:05:02,219 Roger: had rejected. But now you lending to businesses that in 87 00:05:02,219 --> 00:05:05,190 Roger: many instances would qualify for a bank loan if the 88 00:05:05,190 --> 00:05:08,700 Roger: banks could be bothered lending them the money. So it's 89 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:11,250 Roger: not true that just because the return is high that 90 00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:14,609 Roger: it's immediately very risky. And as we just explained, the 91 00:05:14,610 --> 00:05:19,979 Roger: returns have been higher than the ASX 200 accumulation index, but 92 00:05:19,980 --> 00:05:23,549 Roger: there's been no volatility, zero volatility. Now, of course, past 93 00:05:23,549 --> 00:05:27,570 Roger: performance is not a reasonable guide to future returns, and 94 00:05:27,570 --> 00:05:31,440 Roger: you have to seek advice before investing. But the historical 95 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,330 Roger: track record bears out that there's arguably less risk for 96 00:05:36,330 --> 00:05:39,270 Roger: that return than if you're investing in the stock market, 97 00:05:39,660 --> 00:05:43,080 Roger: which has had a lower return and higher volatility. The 98 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,530 Roger: other thing is with the Aura High Yield SME Fund, 99 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:50,940 Roger: there's three layers of protection that investors have. Number one 100 00:05:51,150 --> 00:05:55,529 Roger: is at the borrower level, so businesses that want to 101 00:05:55,529 --> 00:06:01,530 Roger: borrow, have to have an Equifax score above 600. So 102 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,650 Roger: they have to be of a very high quality in 103 00:06:04,650 --> 00:06:08,370 Roger: terms of their credit score before they're even considered as 104 00:06:08,370 --> 00:06:12,389 Roger: a borrower. Then there's the collateral level. So not only 105 00:06:12,389 --> 00:06:15,449 Roger: is the borrower of high quality, but a lot of 106 00:06:15,450 --> 00:06:17,940 Roger: collateral has taken, or a lot of security has taken 107 00:06:17,940 --> 00:06:22,230 Roger: over, for example, the property of the business or its 108 00:06:22,230 --> 00:06:26,939 Roger: operating assets, there are general security agreements, even director's guarantees 109 00:06:26,940 --> 00:06:31,559 Roger: in some instances, and where there's invoice financing, there's even 110 00:06:31,559 --> 00:06:36,779 Roger: insurance available there too. So you've got the borrower quality 111 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,920 Roger: level of protection, you've got the collateral level of protection, 112 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,988 Roger: and then perhaps uniquely for Aura is the structure of 113 00:06:45,990 --> 00:06:49,920 Roger: the fund. So there are businesses called originators who are 114 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,628 Roger: actually doing the physical lending, they're the ones actually processing 115 00:06:54,630 --> 00:06:59,220 Roger: the applications, assessing those applications, and then deciding whether or 116 00:06:59,220 --> 00:07:01,320 Roger: not they'll lend the money and then lending the money. 117 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:06,630 Roger: Those originators, those businesses themselves have to put up some 118 00:07:06,630 --> 00:07:10,470 Roger: equity into the loan book as a first loss piece. 119 00:07:10,830 --> 00:07:14,940 Roger: So if there is a default that ultimately leads to 120 00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:19,170 Roger: a loss and if that loss results... And a loss 121 00:07:19,170 --> 00:07:22,709 Roger: only results, remember, if a default continues for a period 122 00:07:22,710 --> 00:07:25,800 Roger: of time and then you can't collect on the collateral, 123 00:07:26,460 --> 00:07:30,929 Roger: that loss must first be made up by the originator 124 00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:34,920 Roger: before there's any loss of income or capital to the 125 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,610 Roger: investor in the Aura funds. So yeah, so three levels 126 00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:40,950 Roger: of protection there. So it's not the case that just 127 00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:44,939 Roger: because the return has been 9. 63% per annum since 128 00:07:44,940 --> 00:07:48,539 Roger: inception, and that's now over six and a half years, 129 00:07:49,110 --> 00:07:52,020 Roger: it's not the case that the risk is higher. The 130 00:07:52,020 --> 00:07:54,570 Roger: other thing I'll say is there's a plethora of these 131 00:07:54,570 --> 00:07:58,200 Roger: funds out there now. It really is the subject on 132 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,369 Roger: everyone's lips this year, and so there's been a lot 133 00:08:02,370 --> 00:08:05,459 Roger: of funds that have just started out, they're just kicking 134 00:08:05,459 --> 00:08:08,850 Roger: off now, and it's important to distinguish those that have 135 00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:11,880 Roger: a longer track record, such as the Aura funds or 136 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,420 Roger: the Aura High Yield SME Fund and the others. So 137 00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:18,959 Roger: look, forgive me for using Aura as an example, but 138 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,279 Roger: it's the example that I know the most about and 139 00:08:23,670 --> 00:08:26,550 Roger: hopefully this is still a didactic experience for people. 140 00:08:27,060 --> 00:08:28,830 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Roger. We'll be back in a minute. 141 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:40,740 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Roger Montgomery from Montgomery Investment Management. Okay, 142 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:42,900 Sean Aylmer: so the second myth that you want to bust, private 143 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:45,480 Sean Aylmer: credit is illiquid, because you often hear that. 144 00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:48,900 Roger: Yes, you do. In fact, there are plenty of private 145 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:53,399 Roger: credit funds out there that lock up investor's capital, Aura 146 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,779 Roger: doesn't. But it's important that investors do the due diligence, 147 00:08:57,780 --> 00:09:00,929 Roger: look at the terms of the funds that they're investing 148 00:09:00,929 --> 00:09:05,730 Roger: in. Those PDS, they're long and they're boring, but you really 149 00:09:05,730 --> 00:09:08,070 Roger: do need to read them because that's where you're going 150 00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:12,030 Roger: to find out the terms. Some funds lock investors in 151 00:09:12,389 --> 00:09:14,490 Roger: for six months, some for three months, some for the 152 00:09:14,490 --> 00:09:16,920 Roger: first year, and then after that, you're not locked. In 153 00:09:17,609 --> 00:09:20,670 Roger: Aura's case, there's no lockup. You can get your money 154 00:09:20,670 --> 00:09:24,630 Roger: out with a month's notice. There's monthly liquidity. But of 155 00:09:24,630 --> 00:09:26,490 Roger: course, if everyone... And this is true of all funds, 156 00:09:26,490 --> 00:09:28,410 Roger: by the way, and I've managed funds for a long 157 00:09:28,410 --> 00:09:31,380 Roger: time. If every investor wanted to get their money out 158 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:34,559 Roger: all at the same time, then there would be what's 159 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,590 Roger: called gating procedures that are put in place to slow 160 00:09:37,590 --> 00:09:41,939 Roger: that down. In the case of private credit funds, you 161 00:09:41,940 --> 00:09:43,738 Roger: would have to wait for the borrower's to pay the 162 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:48,719 Roger: interest back, and then that interest being paid back and 163 00:09:48,719 --> 00:09:52,080 Roger: the principal would ultimately go to the unit holders who've 164 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,098 Roger: decided to exit. 165 00:09:53,609 --> 00:09:57,840 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Myth number three, private credit does not perform well 166 00:09:58,140 --> 00:09:59,730 Sean Aylmer: in tough economic times. 167 00:10:00,179 --> 00:10:05,099 Roger: Yeah, well, you would think that's the case that if 168 00:10:05,099 --> 00:10:08,280 Roger: we get a broad recession, that's going to be pretty 169 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,458 Roger: risky for SMEs in Australia or small and medium- sized 170 00:10:11,458 --> 00:10:15,630 Roger: corporates in Australia. But as we've seen, the funds that 171 00:10:15,630 --> 00:10:19,440 Roger: I've been talking about today, that six and a half 172 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,370 Roger: year track record includes the disruption from COVID, which was 173 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:27,570 Roger: pretty severe. And as I said earlier, there's been no 174 00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:31,499 Roger: disruption to the monthly income. Every single month has produced 175 00:10:31,530 --> 00:10:34,230 Roger: positive income. There's been no negative months. 176 00:10:35,070 --> 00:10:38,370 Sean Aylmer: Myth number five, private credit only involves lending to distressed 177 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:42,150 Sean Aylmer: businesses and sectors, industries. And again, another one you hear, 178 00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:45,299 Sean Aylmer: I suppose this is to your original point, maybe that was 179 00:10:45,389 --> 00:10:47,970 Sean Aylmer: correct 15 years ago, not so much nowadays. 180 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:53,400 Roger: Yeah. Look, Sean, there are funds that specifically lend to distressed 181 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,160 Roger: businesses or what we call turnarounds, but you and I 182 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,800 Roger: both know that... I don't know if it's your favorite 183 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,320 Roger: quote of Warren Buffett's but it's one of my favorites, 184 00:11:01,889 --> 00:11:07,708 Roger: he said, " Turnarounds seldom turn." And you've just got to 185 00:11:07,710 --> 00:11:11,069 Roger: remember that if you are going to be investing in 186 00:11:11,070 --> 00:11:13,708 Roger: a private credit fund that does lend to distressed businesses, 187 00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:17,219 Roger: then you want to commensurately higher return for taking on 188 00:11:17,219 --> 00:11:20,429 Roger: that extra risk. Not all of them do, and the 189 00:11:20,429 --> 00:11:25,110 Roger: Aura funds don't. They invest, or lend rather, for growth 190 00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:28,890 Roger: borrowings. They're lending to businesses that need money for growth 191 00:11:28,890 --> 00:11:31,949 Roger: rather than being in distress and need to pay off 192 00:11:31,950 --> 00:11:32,700 Roger: other creditors. 193 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:37,468 Sean Aylmer: And the fifth myth, private credit investments are not diversified. 194 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,690 Roger: Yeah, look, some aren't. Again, this is where the PDS 195 00:11:43,230 --> 00:11:46,559 Roger: that we'll offer or a term sheet or an information 196 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,900 Roger: memorandum is going to give you the information that you 197 00:11:48,900 --> 00:11:51,809 Roger: need in order to assess whether or not that particular 198 00:11:51,809 --> 00:11:57,540 Roger: credit fund is appropriate for your risk appetite. Some of 199 00:11:57,540 --> 00:12:02,400 Roger: them focus only on property development. They will only lend 200 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,630 Roger: to property developers. And the fund might only have 5 201 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:10,468 Roger: property or 10 property developers that it lends to. So 202 00:12:10,469 --> 00:12:14,159 Roger: you are concentrated in an industry, you are concentrated in 203 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,570 Roger: terms of the number of borrowers as well. So you 204 00:12:18,570 --> 00:12:20,970 Roger: only need one of those to go wrong, and that 205 00:12:20,970 --> 00:12:24,660 Roger: could have quite a big impact on your return. There 206 00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:27,809 Roger: are others, case in point, the Aura High Yield SME 207 00:12:27,929 --> 00:12:32,309 Roger: Fund over 11,000 loans with an average size of a 208 00:12:32,309 --> 00:12:37,050 Roger: bit more than $ 100,000 and an average term of, call 209 00:12:37,050 --> 00:12:39,570 Roger: it five or six months. And so that book is 210 00:12:39,570 --> 00:12:43,710 Roger: being repriced constantly, and the loans are spread right across 211 00:12:43,710 --> 00:12:44,340 Roger: the economy. 212 00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:47,940 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so wrapping this up, a couple of key takeaways 213 00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:52,020 Sean Aylmer: is certainly that private credit is an opportunity for investors. 214 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,580 Sean Aylmer: But I suppose fundamentally, not all private credit's the same, 215 00:12:56,910 --> 00:13:00,030 Sean Aylmer: and actually understanding what you're investing in is critical. 216 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,870 Roger: Yeah, I think the bottom line is whether you're investing 217 00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:07,470 Roger: in one of our funds or another private credit fund, 218 00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:09,599 Roger: the first thing that's going to grab you is the 219 00:13:09,599 --> 00:13:13,560 Roger: return because the returns have been pretty attractive to date. 220 00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:15,600 Roger: So that's the first thing that's going to get your 221 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,790 Roger: attention. But what you really need to focus on is 222 00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:20,580 Roger: the track record of the manager. How long has that 223 00:13:21,059 --> 00:13:24,270 Roger: fund been going? How long has it been producing that return? 224 00:13:24,630 --> 00:13:27,449 Roger: What are your restrictions in terms of getting your money 225 00:13:27,450 --> 00:13:31,140 Roger: out? How diversified is the loan book? Is it spread 226 00:13:31,140 --> 00:13:33,840 Roger: across industries and spread across borrowers? Is it lots of 227 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,510 Roger: small loans or is it just a few large loans? 228 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:41,759 Roger: And perhaps, I think finally, how often are the distributions 229 00:13:41,759 --> 00:13:46,020 Roger: paid? Are they distributed monthly, quarterly, annually? They're the things 230 00:13:46,020 --> 00:13:48,150 Roger: that you want to know before making a decision about 231 00:13:48,179 --> 00:13:51,780 Roger: which private credit fund to invest in. Mind you, and 232 00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:54,150 Roger: I've said this to you once before, Sean, I do 233 00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:57,360 Roger: believe that as time passes this will become an asset 234 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,090 Roger: class in its own right. And we're seeing more and 235 00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:04,169 Roger: more financial planners now allocating to private credit as a 236 00:14:04,289 --> 00:14:07,439 Roger: necessary diversification element within portfolios. 237 00:14:08,010 --> 00:14:09,720 Sean Aylmer: Roger, thank you for talking to FEAR & GREED. 238 00:14:10,110 --> 00:14:10,980 Roger: Always a pleasure, Sean. 239 00:14:11,429 --> 00:14:14,250 Sean Aylmer: That was Roger Montgomery, founder and Chief Investment Officer at 240 00:14:14,250 --> 00:14:18,088 Sean Aylmer: Montgomery Investment Management. A great supporter of this podcast. Visit 241 00:14:18,179 --> 00:14:21,089 Sean Aylmer: MontInvest M- O- N- T- I- N- V- E- S- 242 00:14:21,089 --> 00:14:24,810 Sean Aylmer: T, MontInvest. com for more information or sign up for 243 00:14:24,810 --> 00:14:29,160 Sean Aylmer: Roger's Insights at rogermontgomery. com. This is the FEAR & GREED 244 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,070 Sean Aylmer: Business Interview. Remember, this is general information only, and you 245 00:14:32,070 --> 00:14:35,609 Sean Aylmer: should always seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Join 246 00:14:35,610 --> 00:14:37,770 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of FEAR & GREED 247 00:14:37,770 --> 00:14:40,469 Sean Aylmer: Daily Business News for people who make their own decisions. 248 00:14:40,709 --> 00:14:42,420 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.