1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: From the news room I used to come to. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what it has been a wild year 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 2: in Australian politics send. In today's special episode use dot 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: com Dot I used, Political editor Samantha Maiden will be 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: joined by reporter Sam Klench for a look back at 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: the three Biggert scandals of twenty twenty four. 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 3: So, Samantha Maiden, we are talking about scandals or controversies 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 3: for those of you, dear listeners who might prefer a lighter, 9 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 3: less judgmental tone to this conversation. And first up, we 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 3: have a word that always seems to be charged with 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 3: dramatic energy in Australian politics, that word being Quantus. The 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Anthony Albinezi got in some trouble this year 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 3: when it emerged that he had accepted certain benefits from Quantus, 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 3: including when he was Transport Minister, i e. When he 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 3: was the minister responsible for the airline sector. Can you 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 3: give us a little breakdown, Sam, of what exactly was 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 3: alleged here. 18 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically this whole issue exploded in the way 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: of a book that was released by a former columnist, 20 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: Joe Aston, and he was really uh, you know, famous 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: for going very hard on Quantus and he'd done a 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: lot of research for this book that had really pulled 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: together a lot of information, so most of which was 24 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: really on the public domain about the number of upgrades 25 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: that you know, Anthony Ambernezi had received over the years. 26 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: Now it was kind of hiding in plain sight, right 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: like it wasn't a secret. It was on his you know, 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: declarations to Parliament. But it was really the magnitude of 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: it when you pulled it all together. And also the 30 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: fact that which you know, some people will know and 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: some people won't. Politicians can already claim for business class 32 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: flights if they want, so if you're getting upgrades, it 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: generally has to be about personal travel and family travel. 34 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's what drove everyone nuts, was just 35 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: the idea that you know, these politicians are sitting around 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: griff looking for upgrades when they go to Fiji or 37 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, when they take the kids to Bali or whatever. 38 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: And it was really astonishing. I think that the Prime 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: Minister didn't think it was an issue. 40 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the thing that struck me when I 41 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 3: looked at Anthony Alberenze's reaction to the questions about this. 42 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: It always feels suspicious to me when politicians play the 43 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 3: man rather than the ball, which is I know, a 44 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: very tired cliche. 45 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: Joe Astin pretty hard. 46 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but it is cricket season, so we'll go 47 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 3: with that cliche. And Albanese's first instinct, it seemed to 48 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: me when this drama blew up, was to go after 49 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 3: Aston instead of actually properly defending his own conduct, saying, 50 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 3: for example, that Aston had failed to declare his formal 51 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: work for Quantus and as a Liberal staffer in his book, 52 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 3: when in fact Aston had declared it. Look, is that 53 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 3: a sign when a politician goes for that sort of 54 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 3: tactic that they're on quite shaky ground when it comes 55 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 3: to the actual merits of the argument. 56 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: Look, it can be, I mean, to be fair, I 57 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: think there was also some you know, questions around some 58 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: of the claims in Joe Astin's book as well. For example, 59 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: and this was sort of, you know, also an example 60 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: of Anthony Abernese in his office failure to kind of 61 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: manage this situation politically. There was this complication around whether 62 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:18,839 Speaker 1: he had directly asked the Quantus CEO personally for the upgrade. Now, 63 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: common sense kind of tells you that that sounds a 64 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: bit weird, right, like, why on earth would he be 65 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: asking the CEO. Surely there'd be someone else doing that, 66 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: And this claim was made in the book. Anthony Albanese 67 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: asserted that there was only one or two occasions he'd 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: had direct dealings with the CEO, and they didn't relate 69 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: to upgrades for personal private family travel. They related to 70 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: these freebe trips to kind of you know, when they 71 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: put on some new amazing plane or whatever, they invited 72 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: half of the Australian kind of political, kind of media 73 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: class to get on these planes. He had to dealt 74 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: with him directly on that, but not on these other upgrades, 75 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: and there was no evidence that actually emerged of you know, 76 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: to back up exactly what Joe Aston had said in 77 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: relation to that. 78 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think the fundamental problem for the PM 79 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 3: here is that that sort of stuff is a bit 80 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: down in the details and the weeds, and what people 81 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 3: tend to come away with is an impression, right. Yeah, 82 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 3: And you know, pretty much anyone you ask on the 83 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 3: street is going to say they're going to tell you 84 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: it's inappropriate for a politician who has some oversight of 85 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: the industry in question to be getting benefits from one 86 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 3: of the companies in that industry and over whose interests 87 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 3: they hold real power. Even if there is never actually 88 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: any misconduct or anything that could actually be called corruption, 89 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 3: just the appearance of it or the potential appearance of 90 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 3: it is in itself damaging to the credibility of the government, Right. 91 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're one hundred percent right. And I 92 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: found it astonishing that the Prime Minister seriously thought that 93 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: it was a normal, non weird thing as the Transport 94 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: Minister to be getting free upgrade on family holidays. You know, 95 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: the value of that upgrade isn't really quantified, but I 96 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: mean if you sat down and did it, I mean, 97 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: I you know, couldn't tell you how much a business 98 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: or first class fight costs to London, because there's no 99 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: way that I would be able to afford it. Like, 100 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: I just wouldn't think of doing that, right, I know 101 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: that it's skippid with it that it could be, you know, 102 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: like I'm pretty sure I looked it up at the 103 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: time and it was like, you know, it's like ten 104 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: grand or twenty grand for a flight that you'd otherwise 105 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: get for two grand or something like. It's mental, right, 106 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: And so there's a real cash value, and some people 107 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: sort of sat down and kind of worked out that 108 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: over twenty years these upgrades could be worth like a 109 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: six figure amount. And you know, it is a form 110 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: of soft diplomacy. Quantus is not doing it out of 111 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: the goodness of their heart. They're doing it because they 112 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: want to have this really you know, useful close relationship 113 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: with the Transport Winister or eventually the Prime Minister. Now 114 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: does that mean that the Prime Minister sat there when 115 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: he was making a decision to when all, but not 116 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: do that because I might not get my upgrades. I'm 117 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: not necessarily saying that. It's just but it comes back 118 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: to this appearance thing, and I just think that it 119 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: is utterly bizarre that the Prime Minister didn't at any 120 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: point think, you know what, I actually shouldn't accept those 121 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: upgrades because that's just not a good look. Anthony Abernezi 122 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: is the proud new owner of a Central Coast beach 123 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: house worth more than four million dollars. 124 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: All right, let's move on to number two, the house 125 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 3: and Copper cabana. 126 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this was one of those magical situations I 127 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: think where the biggest issue in Australian politics I would argue, 128 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: which is if not the economy is about housing, affordability 129 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: just really exploded in an unfortunate way for the Prime Minister. 130 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing we love more than a good 131 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: real estate story. We love it, we love it. And 132 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: there's nothing that people hate more than the inability of 133 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: themselves or their children to get into the housing market. 134 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: And so when the Prime and it was revealed actually 135 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: on Ben Fordham's program, that the Prime Minister had plunked 136 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: down a couple of million dollars large on his house 137 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: of Copa Cabana. First of all, it looked like a 138 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: retirement home, right, like a very bougy, fantastic retirement home. 139 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: But you know, why is this guy thinking about buying 140 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: multimillion dollar houses on the central coast unless he's got 141 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: one eye on the exit, right, So that was a 142 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: really bad mission to send, a message to send. And 143 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: then of course it was just the sheer cost of 144 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: it which brought into for his kind of log cabin story. 145 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: So he loves to tell us, you know that he 146 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: started off in public housing and he now has this 147 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: sort of real estate portfolio and he doesn't advertise that 148 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: so much, but he does, right, and you know, good 149 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: on him for getting ahead, but you know, the reality 150 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: is that he hasn't ever really worked in the private 151 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: sector in any serious way, Like he briefly worked at 152 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: a bank. I think at university. Every other job been 153 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: is a political staffer or a labor MP or a 154 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: labor minister. So this incredible wealth that he's built, which 155 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: is fair enough, is all built from taxpayers basically, and 156 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: so I think that it just kind of, you know, 157 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: it was really rough, and again there was some sort 158 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: of like poor handling of it by the Prime Minister's office. 159 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: I think, like I think that you know, we were 160 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: asking questions, for example, like are you going to negatively 161 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: gear it? What's going on? And I think it turned 162 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: out in the end that he wasn't, but they were 163 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: very slow and they never really publicly confirmed that or not. 164 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: So I think it was just one of those issues 165 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: where you know, he's trying to get this log cabin 166 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: story working that doesn't really work anymore. He is saying 167 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: that he understands people's pain and the cost of living pressures, 168 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: but he's buying this multimillion dollar house. He's saying he's 169 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: going to stick around, but he's got one eye on 170 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: the exits at Copacabana, Like, I think it was just 171 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: a perfect storm. Yeah. 172 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 3: I think one of the worst impressions you can give 173 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 3: voters as a politician is the idea that you're out 174 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 3: of touch and that you don't actually understand their problems. 175 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 3: You need to give people something to latch onto as relatable, 176 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 3: something that says I'm one of you, I understand what 177 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 3: you're facing, and I care about helping you. I actually 178 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 3: do care. Whether you actually have a policy that will 179 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 3: help them obviously does matter, But in terms of the 180 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 3: pure politics, I think the impression that you actually do 181 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 3: give a damn is almost more important sometimes. And as 182 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 3: you say, this is something that Anthony Albinezi has done 183 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 3: fairly well in the past with what you call his 184 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: log cabin story, you know, talking endlessly to an almost 185 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 3: memorable extent about growing up in public housing and so forth. 186 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 3: Is sort of the core of the Elbow brand that 187 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: he's just sort of regular bloke who came through fairly 188 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 3: humble beginnings and so forth, and buying this very glitzy 189 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: house in Copacabana. It makes them seem like just another 190 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 3: well off politician, someone who's expanding his own proper portfolio 191 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: and snapping up luxury homes while most Australians, young Australians 192 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: in particular, they feel as though they'll never be able 193 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: to afford even a crappy little apartment in one of 194 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 3: our capital cities. And I think the political optics of it, 195 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: and that's not the most important thing. Obviously the merits 196 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: always matter more, but the political optics are putrit It 197 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: does give the impression that Alban Easy is almost setting 198 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: up his post politics life instead of focusing on what 199 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 3: his job is meant to be. Right now, we should 200 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 3: move on to our third scandal. I say scandal controversy. 201 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 3: I think I prefer that word. Last up, we have 202 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 3: a moment that when properly global, which is of course 203 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 3: always fun, when our little corner of the world gets 204 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: attention overseas. We're talking about Senator Lydia Thorpe's protest against 205 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 3: King Charles during his visit to Australia. Miss Thorpe she 206 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: yelled at the Charles during one of the official events 207 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: on his tour, saying that he, well I say he, 208 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: the Royal family Britain whatever, had committed genocide against our 209 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 3: people to side against our. 210 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: People, you're not now land back give us by this 211 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: style from us, our bones, our star, our baby people. 212 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: We wanted trading in this country. 213 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 3: She was then ejected by security and was later censored 214 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 3: by the Senate. But you really didn't back down afterwards 215 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: to check. 216 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: No, she didn't. And look, she's a really tricky issue 217 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: for Parliament to kind of deal with, and it's kind 218 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: of fascinating because on the one hand you have the 219 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: Labor Party in the Greens and it's all about you know, 220 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: the welcome to country. They obviously wanted to have the 221 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: voice that failed, and you know, Senator Thorpe actually had 222 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: one of those quite interesting positions on the voice, which 223 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: was she opposed it because she didn't think it went 224 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: far enough. And I think it was that combination of 225 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: voices from the far left and the far right in 226 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: the form of you know, Senator just Enter Price didn't 227 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: support it either, that kind of coalesced into a lot 228 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: of people thinking well, if there's you know, really loud 229 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: voices in the indigenous community that don't want to support it, 230 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: why should we. And so she's really difficult person for 231 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: them to handle because she's saying staff that I think 232 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: is quite appealing to a certain milieu of Green's voters. 233 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: She's not Green anymore, but you know, like and she's 234 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: sort of banging on about Palestine and all the rest 235 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: of it. And it's kind of really fascinating and challenging 236 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: because all of these people who you know, like to 237 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: argue that they're you know, advocates for change and the 238 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: indigenous community are faced with the prospect of, as Senator 239 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: Thorpe self describes herself, a quote unquote, angry black woman 240 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: mineus the sea. And it's I just think it's really 241 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: fascinating watching them grapple with that, you know, and like 242 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, the way Senator Thoughte saw 243 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: that she was completely unrepentant. You know, she wanted to 244 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: get that issue on to a world stage, and she 245 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: sure did. 246 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: You know. 247 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: There were articles in the Washington Post and the New 248 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: York Times and CNN, and you know they you have it. 249 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like the sound of music. How 250 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: do we deal with a problem like Maria. It's like, 251 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: how do we deal with a problem like Senator Lydia Thorpe. 252 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's going to be pretty interesting 253 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: when Pala returns next to year. 254 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 3: I think challenging is a good word for Lydia Thorpe, 255 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: because she's been an interesting person. Just this is purely anecdotal, 256 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 3: but there are people in my life who I would 257 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 3: not describe as natural Lydia Thorpe supporters. They're not people 258 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: who would have a vote Green. They might be sort 259 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 3: of soft left, that sort of thing, but their politics, 260 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: I would say, mostly don't align with hers, but they 261 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 3: do still quite like her. They like how blunt and 262 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: unrepentant she is, how she doesn't really care about conventions 263 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: or politeness. And look, I'm someone who mainly focused on 264 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 3: US politics for the last several years, and it sort 265 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 3: of reminds me on the other side of the spectrum, 266 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: in so far as there is a spectrum about Donald 267 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 3: Trump and Trump isn't and people who who like the 268 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 3: sort of what's the word, the subversiveness. Yes, I suppose 269 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 3: that parallel here is more Pauline Hanson than Donald Trump, 270 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: But like, is there something to that? What's your read 271 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: on her brand of politics and why it appeals to 272 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 3: people or why it repels people. I suppose on the 273 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 3: other side of things, I think. 274 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: That the comparison with Trump and Hanson is a really 275 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: interesting one. And there's probably also the Jackie Lamby thing 276 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: rolled into that. And I think that one of the 277 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: other reasons why I say challenging is that, look, the 278 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: painting by numbers response to Senator Thorpe is to say, 279 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, this is offensive and this is terrible and 280 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: how dare you and go and sit down the back 281 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: and you know right out in ten times in your 282 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: detention book that you won't do that again, right, She's 283 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: not clearly going to do that, And it is kind 284 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: of destructive, do you know what I mean? And it 285 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: is disruptive, and it is about getting a headline and 286 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: kind of self promoting herself. So there's all it's so 287 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: hard to sort of grapple with, right, But at the 288 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: same time I can't help but thinking that, you know, 289 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: we never stop hearing about what a boring blomonge of 290 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: people we've got in Parliament. And they've all got arts 291 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: degrees or law degrees, and they went to private school 292 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: or quasi private schools at public schools in sort of 293 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: fancy pants areas and they're all kind of the same 294 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: person and it's really boring, right, And you know, when 295 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: we have a big hot serve of Lydia Thorpe. It's 296 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: none of those things. And I kind of think it's 297 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: part of having a diverse parliament. I do think there's 298 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: problems with the way she sort of expresses herself. There's 299 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of things that she says that 300 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: I clearly, you know, do not agree with on any level. 301 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: But I just think that you can't demand diversity and 302 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: then ask everyone to sort of behave in this sort 303 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: of cookie cutter way. And I think it's just really 304 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: interesting and challenging. And you know, some of the stuff 305 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: that she said about basically, you know, the Britain running 306 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: off with you know, skulls and stuff and putting them 307 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: in museums. It's true they did, you know, not justifying 308 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: the behavior, but I mean, like, is there I mean, 309 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: I just I did feel like there was a moment 310 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: when that was all happening and she was shrieking at 311 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: Prince Charles with a possum poncho on. I thought, God, 312 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: is there anything more Australian than this sort of like 313 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: it's like some convict going bananas at the British leaders, 314 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: Like you know, like, I mean, we live in a democracy, right, 315 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: so suck it up. Princess or in this case, suck 316 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: it up, King Charles, you know, I mean Camilla looked 317 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: like she was enjoying it a bit. I think. 318 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 3: I've always thought the royals could use a little bit 319 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: more excitement in their lives. 320 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: Frankly, but we were all, look, it was so boring 321 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: that raw visit. It was agon. We're all just going, 322 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: God kill me now, this is so boring, right and 323 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: then oh bang, thanks Lydia, she's sure live and that up. 324 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 3: Suddenly it all right. I think we'll leave it there. 325 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 3: Those are the three biggest scandals, controversies, whatever you want 326 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 3: to call them, from this year of Australian politics as 327 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 3: we judge them. 328 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: Follow or subscribe to from the newsroom wherever you get 329 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: your podcasts.