Speaker 1: Paul, we thought of you when the Pope passed away.
Speaker 1: You were once a Catholic priest. What did you make
Speaker 1: of his passing and what did it mean to you?
Speaker 2: Well, I've got to say it meant a lot to me, really,
Speaker 2: because this pope, in many ways epitomizes the sort of
Speaker 2: Catholic Church that well I was educated in immediately after
Speaker 2: the Vatican Council back in the mid to late sixties.
Speaker 2: He was inclusive, he was human, and he actually showed
Speaker 2: what I believe is the core of not only the
Speaker 2: Catholic faith, but of the Christian belief of love and mercy.
Speaker 2: So it's no surprise to me that the whole world,
Speaker 2: whether they're believers or not, mourn a figure of this sort.
Speaker 1: Paul bon Jorne is one of one point two billion
Speaker 1: Roman Catholics him on the loss of Pope Francis this week,
Speaker 1: and as he read tribute after treatbute of the impact
Speaker 1: of the pope, he noticed what wasn't on the front
Speaker 1: page Utton's last minute policy announcements.
Speaker 2: The Pope is a world figure. There's absolutely no doubt
Speaker 2: about that, and of course it's swamped the world's media,
Speaker 2: including here in Australia. So it's not surprising that the
Speaker 2: death of this pope would overshadow anything that our leaders
Speaker 2: were doing in the election campaign. In fact would blow
Speaker 2: the campaign out of the water for a few days.
Speaker 1: From Swarts Media, I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM Today.
Speaker 1: Calumnist for the Saturday paper. Paul Bonjorno on how the
Speaker 1: Pope's death derailed Dutton and whether he can recover. That's darting,
Speaker 1: not the Pope. It's Saturday, April twenty six, Paul. Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton had a major policy announcement on Monday which was
Speaker 1: lost in the coverage of the Pope's death, but it
Speaker 1: was about law and order.
Speaker 3: Well, this is Peter Dutton positioning himself not just as
Speaker 3: a potential future prime minister, but also remind us he
Speaker 3: is a former police officer and also a dad who
Speaker 3: knows right now parents they're two biggest concerns a drugs
Speaker 3: and keeping children safe.
Speaker 1: What do you make of this move by Dutton.
Speaker 2: Well, look, this isn't a surprise at all. This is
Speaker 2: an area of security, law and order crime.
Speaker 4: So today when now it's a seven hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: million dollar package, which is a real game change in
Speaker 4: relation to how we can help keep our communities and
Speaker 4: our homes and our towns and suburbs safe.
Speaker 2: While it is true certainly at the state level law
Speaker 2: and order, for example, played a very big role in
Speaker 2: the Queensland state election. I think people are aware that
Speaker 2: the federal issues are a bit broader than the law
Speaker 2: and order tack that Dutton is taking. The other thing
Speaker 2: is I actually thought the launch was a bit hyperbolic,
Speaker 2: if I can put it that way. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of hyperbole with the one of the Liberal candidates saying
Speaker 2: that you know, people are scared to go shopping in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: People don't feel safe, and they're on horns, they're businesses
Speaker 2: taking public transport, are even at the shop. And I
Speaker 2: actually don't think that it's resonating in the federal campaign
Speaker 2: anywhere near, say, as strongly as the whole issue of
Speaker 2: cost of living.
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton managed to break through when he won the
Speaker 1: third Leader's debate on Tuesday night. Is he sharpening as
Speaker 1: we're getting closer to the finish line.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I would dispute that he did break through
Speaker 2: On Tuesday night. Dutton gave Labor an enormous piece of
Speaker 2: ammunition when he confirmed that there would be significant cuts,
Speaker 2: but said he had to wait till he got into
Speaker 2: government before he could tell where they would be, what
Speaker 2: agencies and what department.
Speaker 4: So we will look at government expenditure and as again
Speaker 4: we've done in the past as a liberal government, we will.
Speaker 2: Look at the budget.
Speaker 4: We'll see where the government's wasting money. I think every
Speaker 4: Austrains look at their own budgets now and if they're
Speaker 4: having to tighten their belts, so too should the federal
Speaker 4: government because if we don't.
Speaker 2: And in my view, in another lapse by Peter Dutton,
Speaker 2: he seemed to lose his cool with Alberanisi when Alberanzi
Speaker 2: was accusing him of cutting what was it about eighty
Speaker 2: billion dollars from the health budget.
Speaker 5: Prior to you come into office. You ripped eighty billion
Speaker 5: dollars out of those two items.
Speaker 2: Dudn't shot back. You couldn't even lie straight in bed.
Speaker 5: In two thousand and four, minister, You couldn't lie straight
Speaker 5: in bed.
Speaker 2: Honestly, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 5: It can go to abuse.
Speaker 2: It was I think Albanesi's retort that hit the mark
Speaker 2: when he said.
Speaker 5: Look, abuse, that's a sign of desperation.
Speaker 4: Frankly, as he's lying.
Speaker 5: That's a sign of desperation. Go to the twenty fourteen
Speaker 5: budget papers.
Speaker 2: And Labor strategists tell me that Dunn't has to be
Speaker 2: on his guard in these debates against reinforcing the view
Speaker 2: that he's nothing more than aggressive or as Malcolm turmul
Speaker 2: once called him, a thug. Whereas this lapse, as it were,
Speaker 2: plays into this overly aggressive persona.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned before, Paul, one of the key moments
Speaker 1: during the leader's debate was when Dutten conceded there would
Speaker 1: be significant budget cut but refused to outline where they'd fall.
Speaker 1: How is that moment played into Labour's narrative about trust
Speaker 1: and transparency.
Speaker 2: Well, probably in light of the arguments that the Labor
Speaker 2: have been using throughout the campaign. The Coalition campaign headquarters
Speaker 2: released a list of the sort of cuts they would make,
Speaker 2: and this only reinforces the vulnerability of the Liberals in
Speaker 2: claiming that they will make tough decisions and cut labors
Speaker 2: in inverted commas wasteful spending. But when you look at
Speaker 2: the list, it's quite gobsmacking on a couple of levels.
Speaker 2: First of all, it goes counter to what you might
Speaker 2: call is liberal holy writ They always attack labor for
Speaker 2: wanting to pay for its spending by upping income tax.
Speaker 2: Well that's exactly what they're doing here.
Speaker 1: Paul Dunne has announced an increase in defense spending.
Speaker 4: What we announced today is a record investment into defense,
Speaker 4: which is going to be a particular benefit here in
Speaker 4: Western Australia and South Australia.
Speaker 1: Given the chaos out of the United States that has
Speaker 1: loomed over this campaign, will it be politically popular?
Speaker 2: Well, look, the presumption is that Australians, or a majority
Speaker 2: of Australians actually support massive defense spending.
Speaker 4: Australia has an important role to play on the global
Speaker 4: stage and in our own region. But most importantly, a
Speaker 4: good Australian government will always invest into keeping us safe.
Speaker 2: Now, there was a study that was written up in
Speaker 2: The Conversation this week, a survey done by the War
Speaker 2: Studies Research Group at the University of New South Wales,
Speaker 2: and it found that only a third of Australians support
Speaker 2: increasing defense spending. So, in other words, even though we
Speaker 2: have uncertainty, even though we have Donald Trump in the
Speaker 2: White House telling us to look after yourselves, only a
Speaker 2: third of Australians support a massive defense spending at this
Speaker 2: time because it's vying with another thing that Australians do support,
Speaker 2: and that is relief so that they can make ends
Speaker 2: meet for their families, that they can pay their bills.
Speaker 2: He simply hasn't done the homework to build this into
Speaker 2: a major election issue at this time.
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, what record pre polling numbers
Speaker 1: say about the mood of the electric.
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Speaker 1: Paul headed Anthony Albanezi spend the week well.
Speaker 2: He started the week basically mourning the Pope.
Speaker 5: Today, there of more than a billion people from all nations,
Speaker 5: in every walk of life go with Pope Francis to
Speaker 5: his rest.
Speaker 2: I mean he was very fast off the mark, noting
Speaker 2: the Pope's death, paying a great tribute to him, but
Speaker 2: then he suspended for a full day his campaigning.
Speaker 5: I have vast the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet
Speaker 5: that all flags from the commult Government of Australia will
Speaker 5: fly at half mast tamaraw as a sign of respect.
Speaker 2: Albanize came back into the fray by going up to
Speaker 2: Sydney and debating Peter Dutton on Tuesday night, then campaigned
Speaker 2: in Liberal marginal seats in Melbourne, and then he's gone
Speaker 2: over to Perth to one of the Liberal's strongest seats
Speaker 2: in wa Colli.
Speaker 7: The Prime Minister, Energy Minister and West Australia's Premier Roger
Speaker 7: Cook coming to Collie, south of Perth, one of seven
Speaker 7: sites where Peter Dutton plans to build nuclear reactors if
Speaker 7: he wins the election.
Speaker 2: Albert Easy, We're there, as it were, hang a bright
Speaker 2: lantern over the fact that Dutton won't even come here
Speaker 2: even though he wants to put a nuclear plant here,
Speaker 2: and that nuclear is the least best option for dealing
Speaker 2: with the transition to net zero emissions.
Speaker 1: Albert Eazy has consistently ruled out doing a deal with
Speaker 1: the Greens in the event of a hung Parliament. So
Speaker 1: given how likely a minority government still is, what should
Speaker 1: voters make of what will happen if Labor doesn't win
Speaker 1: out right.
Speaker 2: Look, it was a bit gobsmack Daniel when in the
Speaker 2: debate the moderator thought that when albert Is he ruled
Speaker 2: out doing a deal with the Greens, that we're going
Speaker 2: to go to another election. That's not the fact at all.
Speaker 2: In fact, the whole cross bench, including the Greens, except
Speaker 2: the fact that you don't have to have a formal
Speaker 2: coalition agreement as it were with the minority government. For
Speaker 2: a mon minority government to exist, all you have to
Speaker 2: do is to guarantee confidence and supply and then tackle
Speaker 2: every issue and every bit of legislation on its merits.
Speaker 2: And that's the game plan, certainly for Albanisi, and it's
Speaker 2: also the game plan for people like Andrew Wilkie, who
Speaker 2: as late as Thursday reinforced that he wouldn't be doing
Speaker 2: a deal with any minority government like he did with
Speaker 2: the Gillard minority government because he said they don't keep
Speaker 2: this side of the bargain. So what we would see if,
Speaker 2: for example, there is a minority government and there are
Speaker 2: no formal coalition agreements like we have on the non
Speaker 2: Labour side of politics with the Liberals and the Nationals.
Speaker 2: The most likely thing would be that the Governor General
Speaker 2: would call the Parliament to convene and for the party
Speaker 2: with the biggest number of seats to test on the
Speaker 2: floor of the Parliament if it had confidence. That would
Speaker 2: probably be the way that we would go forward.
Speaker 1: Early polling has been going game busters and the first
Speaker 1: day alone, more than half a million people voted, smashing
Speaker 1: the previous record in twenty twenty two by one hundreds
Speaker 1: and thousands of votes. What do you think it says
Speaker 1: about the sentiment in the community that people are making
Speaker 1: their minds up well before the campaign is Overpaul.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's There are various theories on this, Daniel, and
Speaker 2: I've noticed some vox pops that have been done outside
Speaker 2: the polling birds and you get the impression that, well,
Speaker 2: these voters have had enough, they don't want to hear anymore,
Speaker 2: and in fact most of them have made up their minds.
Speaker 2: They're saying now that by the time we get to
Speaker 2: a Saturday week that over half the electorate that is
Speaker 2: about nine million people will have voted.
Speaker 1: There's still another leader's debate that come. Given what we've
Speaker 1: seen with early voting, what's the point do you still
Speaker 1: think voters haven't made up their mind could be moved
Speaker 1: by yet another debate.
Speaker 2: Well, there could be one or two who might be moved,
Speaker 2: looking for something to give them a reason to vote
Speaker 2: one way or the other. Interestingly, Anthony Alberanizi is the
Speaker 2: first prime minister to agree to four of these debates.
Speaker 2: We've had as few as one. I think three was
Speaker 2: the last best number and people were wondering why Albanizi
Speaker 2: was so keen. But it seems that the labor camp
Speaker 2: or of a view that the more people see of
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton, the worse it is for him. And the
Speaker 2: News poll shows, among other polls this week, that Peter
Speaker 2: Dutton has gone backwards quite dramatically in his approvals during
Speaker 2: the campaign. Minus twenty two is his net approval in
Speaker 2: the News poll. One seasoned liberals said to me, that's
Speaker 2: change of leader territory. Well, we'll see in over a
Speaker 2: week's time whether that change will be forced upon the
Speaker 2: Liberals by the voters.
Speaker 1: Well, it's going to be fascinating to see how it
Speaker 1: all plays out in the final week. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: once again for your time and your insights.
Speaker 2: Thanks mate. Bye.
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