WEBVTT - Life after Gaza’s “ceasefire”

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. Since

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<v Speaker 1>the ceasefire was announced late last year, Gaza has dropped

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<v Speaker 1>out of the headlines, but the horror of living there

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't stopped. Israel has killed at least eight hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty seven people in Gaza and wounded almost two thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>five hundred in near daily attacks since past October, and

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<v Speaker 1>Palestinians are still in a daily struggle for survival. Independent journalist,

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<v Speaker 1>author of The Palestine Laboratory and filmmaker Anthony Lowenstein recently

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<v Speaker 1>traveled to the Middle East and has been speaking to

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<v Speaker 1>people in Gaza. Today, he tells us about what he

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<v Speaker 1>saw on the West Bank and the future for Palestine.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, July eighth. So, Anthony, you've recently traveled to

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<v Speaker 1>the at least including to the West Bank, which I

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<v Speaker 1>want to ask you about. But to begin with, obviously

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<v Speaker 1>it's incredibly difficult to get in or out of Gaza

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<v Speaker 1>at the moment, but I know that you spoke to

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<v Speaker 1>people there and have been speaking to people regularly. So

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<v Speaker 1>could you start by telling me a bit about what

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<v Speaker 1>they say to you about what life is like in

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<v Speaker 1>Gaza right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's worth this reminding people that the situation in

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<v Speaker 2>Gaza obviously has been or the war, the genocide has

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<v Speaker 2>been going for nearly three years, and basically no international

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<v Speaker 2>journalists have been allowed in apart from a handful who

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<v Speaker 2>will take official Israeli military tours. Something I've done that

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<v Speaker 2>it's obviously a propaganda toour but if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>be an independent journalist, no one's getting it, literally nobody.

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<v Speaker 2>I have got a number of contacts in Gaza who

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<v Speaker 2>are Palestinian who are living there, including a doctor who've

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<v Speaker 2>had contact with for a while. One of the things

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<v Speaker 2>the real challenges, he says to me, is people have

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<v Speaker 2>no hope. There's no sense that things are going to change.

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<v Speaker 2>That there's no rebuilding, there's no pathway, there's no sense

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<v Speaker 2>of a future. There's it's Raeli government ministers literally saying

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<v Speaker 2>every day our goal is still to remove all Palestinians

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<v Speaker 2>from Garth, not talking about killing them all, but finding.

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<v Speaker 3>Countries that will take them.

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<v Speaker 2>So when I speak to this doctor, he said to

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<v Speaker 2>me recently he organized this day for kids.

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<v Speaker 3>I saw photographs these kids were maybe eight, nine, ten,

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<v Speaker 3>and to.

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<v Speaker 2>Try to give them some color, some fun, some enjoyment.

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<v Speaker 2>They were playing games, pretty basic stuff that any kid

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<v Speaker 2>would enjoy, but because these children have been through such

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<v Speaker 2>hell for the last three odd years, he said, the

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<v Speaker 2>kids really enjoyed it as almost to take their mind

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<v Speaker 2>off the horrors when they leave this place. And he

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<v Speaker 2>showed me the photos. There was balloons up and streamers

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<v Speaker 2>and just trying to give a bit of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>basic stuff that any kid in the world really enjoys,

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<v Speaker 2>or adult for that matter. But then they go back

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<v Speaker 2>to their reality where this finally he showed me also

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<v Speaker 2>photos of there's no decent sanitation, and this is across

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<v Speaker 2>the whole of Gaza, so diseases from this lack of

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<v Speaker 2>sanitation is rampant. There's lots of stories of when people

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<v Speaker 2>are sleeping in their tents. Don't forget it's the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of some of there, so of course it's incredibly hot.

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<v Speaker 2>There are lots of rats running around. All of gars

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<v Speaker 2>are biting, particularly when adults too are particularly kids, getting

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<v Speaker 2>lots of diseases. It's completely it's still apocalyptic. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the best way to describe it. It's both what

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<v Speaker 2>he has said to me, this garz and doctor, and

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm hearing And what other story is briefly Ruby

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<v Speaker 2>Worth telling, is that a friend of mine, Palestinian, who

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<v Speaker 2>has family still in gazas she's left. She was telling

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<v Speaker 2>me that recently, because there's no sanitation, people have to

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<v Speaker 2>find their own way to go to the toilet basically,

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<v Speaker 2>and this family member was digging a latrine pit away

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<v Speaker 2>to dispose of human waste, and while he was digging there,

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<v Speaker 2>he fell in and he couldn't get out. And she

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<v Speaker 2>was telling me about just the fear of this, that

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<v Speaker 2>this person thought they were going to die, they could

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<v Speaker 2>not get out. Someone else goes to help them, they

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<v Speaker 2>also fall in. Now you can just sort of when

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<v Speaker 2>I tell that story, you can almost just picture the

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<v Speaker 2>sense of think about thirty five forty degrees. The smells

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<v Speaker 2>must be just unimaginable. They eventually got out, they survived,

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<v Speaker 2>but that level of desperation and really just the most

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<v Speaker 2>basic daily tasks are herculean. And it's hard not to

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<v Speaker 2>feel both devastated and infuriated that this doesn't get much

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<v Speaker 2>coverage anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it doesn't, And a lot of that is to do, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>with the war in Iran taking up headlines and the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that there has been a quote unquote ceasefire in

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<v Speaker 1>place since last October, but bombs haven't stopped falling, attacks

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<v Speaker 1>haven't stopped happening. And guys, so tell me about the

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<v Speaker 1>scale of what we still are seeing happened since last October.

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<v Speaker 2>The number of Palestinians who have been killed since October,

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<v Speaker 2>the vast majority of hum as civilians, is at least

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<v Speaker 2>a thousand. That's what a so called ceasefire means. So

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<v Speaker 2>when a lot of Palestinians here the term cease fire,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's in Gas or Lebanon or elsewhere, they're rightly

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<v Speaker 2>skeptical because they just look at it and go, well,

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<v Speaker 2>this is what's been happening to us. I've seen footage

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<v Speaker 2>some other people may have as well, of tents on fire,

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<v Speaker 2>people literally being burnt, Israel bombing tents where civilians are sleeping,

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<v Speaker 2>are living. There are some Palestinians in Gars who do

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<v Speaker 2>live in homes, but when I use that word, I

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<v Speaker 2>use it advisedly.

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<v Speaker 3>They're often crumbling.

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<v Speaker 2>But what people are telling me there is the lack

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<v Speaker 2>of access to food. Food is incredibly expensive, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think one thing also people need to understand when the

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<v Speaker 2>so called ceasefire was signed there was a sense that

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<v Speaker 2>Israel was going to control roughly fifty or so percent

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<v Speaker 2>and Hummas basedly the other fifty percent, give or take. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>here we are in July twenty twenty six, and Israel

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<v Speaker 2>now controls about seventy percent of Gaza. Now the other

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<v Speaker 2>thirty percent are roughly controlled by Hummas. But it's worth

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<v Speaker 2>saying that what Israel is doing to try to get

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<v Speaker 2>more than seventy percent is fund and arm Palestinian militia

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<v Speaker 2>groups to fight Hummas for them, in other words, to

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<v Speaker 2>try to cause a civil war or civil unrest. Now

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<v Speaker 2>there's been some reporting about this. I've heard this from

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<v Speaker 2>my own sources as well. This is kind of the

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<v Speaker 2>divide and conquer mentality. So when Israel has now controlled

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<v Speaker 2>seventy percent, there's no rebuilding, there's no rebuilding materials getting in,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no pathway. The so called Bord of Peace that

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump and others have been backing, it's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>been quasi limbo. They had meetings in caire ever, doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>really go anywhere. There was a storing the Guardian just

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<v Speaker 2>this week talking about how the Board of Peace wants

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<v Speaker 2>to give themselves legal immunity in case they do something

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<v Speaker 2>that someone doesn't like. I mean, it's kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>it's all a sham. And meanwhile, the Palestinians themselves are

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<v Speaker 2>living in this state of limbo is too mild a word,

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<v Speaker 2>ruby in a they're alive, but they're basically the living dead.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because we're supposedly in phase two of a ceasefire

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<v Speaker 1>in Guys and now whether the aim is supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>be demilitarization and reconstruction, but you're saying, none of that

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<v Speaker 1>is happening on the ground.

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<v Speaker 3>None of it's happening on the ground. There's no rebuilding.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean the vision so to speak, that's been put

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<v Speaker 3>forward by Donald.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump and Jared Kushner, his son in law, who has

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<v Speaker 2>no official role in a weird way, but yet it's

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<v Speaker 2>apparently the one who's leading this is as people may

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<v Speaker 2>remember from a number of months ago, kind of skyscrapers

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<v Speaker 2>and beautiful beach resorts.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, just illusional nonsense.

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<v Speaker 2>No Palestinians in Gaza A want that, and b they're

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<v Speaker 2>living intents that are being bombed. So when you have

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<v Speaker 2>the Australian government talk about we're very glad that there's

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<v Speaker 2>a ceasefire, you just want to say what planet I

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<v Speaker 2>live on.

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<v Speaker 3>They know what's going on.

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<v Speaker 2>They know they don't want to, I guess kick the

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<v Speaker 2>hornet's nest, so to speak, namely to be TI critical

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<v Speaker 2>of Israel. But they know there's no cease fire. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a cease firing name and there's no rebuilding.

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<v Speaker 4>And as I said, the Israeli governments literally every week,

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<v Speaker 4>including this week again a senior Israeli government minister saying,

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<v Speaker 4>our ultimate goal is to kick all the Palestinians out.

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<v Speaker 1>Today the idea of holds nearly seventy percent of the

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<v Speaker 1>Gaza Strip, must complete the conquest of the remaining thirty percent,

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<v Speaker 1>defeat a mass and above all, Benita establish a belt

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<v Speaker 1>of Jewish settlements.

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<v Speaker 3>It's in the territory of the Strip. That's his words,

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<v Speaker 3>not mine. So it is yeah, as grim as you

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<v Speaker 3>could imagine, ruby.

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<v Speaker 1>Still to come the future for the West Bank. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk a bit about the West Bank, because you actually

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<v Speaker 1>did go there, you spoke to people, you traveled around,

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<v Speaker 1>you went to some fairly remote parts of the West Bank.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me a bit about what you saw.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the things that people need to understand is

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<v Speaker 2>that when you're in Israel, itself. It can seem like

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<v Speaker 2>everything is normal. When I used the term normal, obviously

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<v Speaker 2>this is a time where there was still Iran and

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<v Speaker 2>the US and Israel at war. So when I say normally,

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<v Speaker 2>I use that term very advisedly. But if you're in

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<v Speaker 2>Tel Aviv or even Jerusalem, you don't see houses being bombed,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't see settlers running wild.

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<v Speaker 3>You drive for an hour or so. I was in

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<v Speaker 3>Tel Aviv.

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<v Speaker 2>I went to the West Bank, and as soon as

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<v Speaker 2>you cross into the West Bank you start seeing a

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<v Speaker 2>few things. One which was not there before October seven,

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<v Speaker 2>killer meter upon kilometer upon killer meter, every few meters

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<v Speaker 2>of Israeli flags literally the entire way around and the

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<v Speaker 2>West Bank, which obviously is a statement to say this

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<v Speaker 2>is ours. I was there on a day where it

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<v Speaker 2>was thirty five forty degrees searing hot.

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<v Speaker 3>It sort of feels like biblical times. There is barren ground.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've spent time with the family there who

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<v Speaker 2>lived in literally caves.

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<v Speaker 3>They literally live in a cave.

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<v Speaker 2>They were petrified, not of us, but they were petrified

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<v Speaker 2>of their day to day life. Settlers come there regularly

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<v Speaker 2>to assault them, to abuse them, to kill their sheep.

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<v Speaker 3>There's lots of footage.

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<v Speaker 2>People may have seen some of it of settlers burning

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<v Speaker 2>Palestinian olive groves, burning their farms, killing their animals, assisting

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<v Speaker 2>the dispossession of Palestine's I mean, this is what the

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<v Speaker 2>occupation means.

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<v Speaker 1>A centuries old olive grove in ruins, flames licking at

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<v Speaker 1>the stones of the fifth century church.

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<v Speaker 2>Which talk to and then the Israeli army comes to

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<v Speaker 2>assist the settlers, and the goal is clear, is to

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<v Speaker 2>kick them off the land. And what we're seeing, and

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<v Speaker 2>I saw this time and time again, I heard this

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<v Speaker 2>from people, is that eventually people have a breaking point.

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<v Speaker 2>You're not going to spend if you have a family,

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<v Speaker 2>not going to live in a place where you feel

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<v Speaker 2>literally threatened every day.

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<v Speaker 3>So what happens these Palestinians leave.

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<v Speaker 2>So the village that we went to, when I say village,

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<v Speaker 2>we drove for an hour on initially rocky, difficult road

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<v Speaker 2>got to this area. There were Palestinians who started talking

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<v Speaker 2>to us about what that experience with settlers. The settlers

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<v Speaker 2>were coming literally every day, attacking them. Often because these

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<v Speaker 2>areas are so remote, people can't get access to water,

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<v Speaker 2>so Palestines have to pay water trucks to come and

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<v Speaker 2>deliver the water, but often the settlers block that water,

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<v Speaker 2>so therefore they don't get water.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the middle of summer, I mean, it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Grim and people might say, well, why do they live

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<v Speaker 2>there on't they go somewhere which is easier. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>the response to that is, well, this is their homes.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, some of these people have been there for

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<v Speaker 2>literary generations. They have rights to this land. And yet

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<v Speaker 2>all the people that we met, the Palestinians were basically

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<v Speaker 2>say they didn't quite say it like this, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was implied, we don't know how long we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to survive here. So what I saw was,

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<v Speaker 2>on the one hand, not overly surprising as someone who's

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<v Speaker 2>been reporting on this for twenty years, but also what

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<v Speaker 2>shocked me in a way was it has gone so

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<v Speaker 2>far worse than what it has been in the past,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly since October seven, because the world was focused on Gaza,

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<v Speaker 2>whereas in the West Bank the plan is clear as

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<v Speaker 2>it is in Gaza Ruby, the Israeli government plan is

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<v Speaker 2>to remove all Palestinians from the West Bank. That remains

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<v Speaker 2>the goal. There's three million of them. To make life

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<v Speaker 2>so impossible and unlivable. That Israel again is trying to

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<v Speaker 2>find places where they will be forcibly moved. This is

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.800
<v Speaker 2>the goal. It's not simply all we sh had stopped

0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 2>some set of violence. If the Australian government says this

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<v Speaker 2>is not the issue, of course set of violence is terrible.

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<v Speaker 2>But the broader picture is to make life impossible for

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<v Speaker 2>Palestinians in the West Bank.

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<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't have broad US support. I mean, Trump

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.880
<v Speaker 1>is publicly opposed annexation of the West Bank many times.

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 1>The partnership between Trump and netna who is less stable

0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.360
<v Speaker 1>than it has been for the past two years. At

0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.320
<v Speaker 1>this moment in time, do you think that the US

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<v Speaker 1>is likely to try and intervene at all in terms

0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:22.640
<v Speaker 1>of what's happening in the West Bank?

0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.880
<v Speaker 2>If only, if only ruby I mean, this is the

0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.800
<v Speaker 2>same argument that was made when Biden was president, where

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 2>we kept on reading stories and sent outlets said Biden

0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 2>is very upset with NETTNA who around what's happening in

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.640
<v Speaker 2>guards and near the weapons, and the support kept flowing.

0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 2>I see a lot of the supposed issues between Trump

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.120
<v Speaker 2>and netsigna who or JD Van says kind of theater

0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.360
<v Speaker 2>they may well be pissed off with him. They may

0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.280
<v Speaker 2>well think that he's a bit of a rogue. But

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 2>ultimately they're not stopping anything like they what are they stopping.

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 2>The weapons are still going, the support is still going,

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 2>the diplomatic backing is still going. And I don't really

0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.880
<v Speaker 2>think that there is any concern for the lives of Palestinians.

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, do we think Donald Trump cares about Palestinians

0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.960
<v Speaker 2>or jd Vance for that matter. I think that the

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 2>US could play a hugely important role in stopping what's

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 2>going on, And of course he shoul annexation. Is it's

0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:21.240
<v Speaker 2>happening anyway, Ruby, Maybe not officially, annexation is happening. It

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 2>might not be officially declared, but this is what is

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.720
<v Speaker 2>going on. So on the one hand, there has never

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 2>been more support for Palestinian rights in the West. Poll

0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 2>after poll after poll shows that support for Israel as

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 2>in the toilet, and yet on the ground, lives for

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Palestinians has become impossible, and I fear in years to

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<v Speaker 2>come that there will be very few Palestinians left there.

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that is the trajectory and it's petrifying.

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Anthony, thank you so much for speaking with me.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Ruby.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, Anthony Albinizi says Australia wasn't given

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<v Speaker 1>enough notice after China's missile test in the Pacific yesterday.

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.160
<v Speaker 1>The Prime Minister says there should have been forty eight

0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 1>hours warning before the test was launched. He spoke at

0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 1>a press conference alongside his Solomon Island's counterpart, Matthew Whale,

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 1>who condemned the exercise, saying it's not something a friend does.

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 1>And the NRL has announced the most expensive rights deal

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.560
<v Speaker 1>for an Australian code in sporting history. Nine and Foxtail

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>unveiled a five point three billion dollar agreement to continue

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 1>airing rugby league until twenty thirty four. The Foxtail boss

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 1>dodged questions about whether the extra money being paid would

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.360
<v Speaker 1>see subscription costs hiked for sports fans. I'm Ruby Jones.

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 1>This is seven am. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 3>Its allow young un