Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never
Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: This is part two of my chat with Shannon Oldthouse,
Speaker 1: former violent BIKI prisoner and meth addict. In part two,
Speaker 1: we talk about his time in prison for a tempt
Speaker 1: murder and his own redemption from outlaw to a person
Speaker 1: who is making a difference in young fellas away from
Speaker 1: the life he lived. This was a powerful conversation. Have
Speaker 1: a listen. It might just change your perspective about Shannon. Shannon,
Speaker 1: welcome back. We left you at the end of part
Speaker 1: one and you explained the situation in which that you
Speaker 1: were locked up. You got the sentence for ten years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for ten and a half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ten and a half years. At the start of
Speaker 1: part one, we showed that assault that you committed when
Speaker 1: you were in prison. That was pretty early in your sentence,
Speaker 1: your ten year stint, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that was in the first year, first half months.
Speaker 1: And what was the game? What we didn't talk about
Speaker 1: it when I played the video. What was what started that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yes, when he first came in.
Speaker 3: I remember twenty sixteen and twenty sixteen he first came
Speaker 3: in and was all in Max block together, and he
Speaker 3: used to walk laps with us and drink coffees and
Speaker 3: stuff with us and tell us he's gangster life stories
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and you know, like he'd done
Speaker 3: time in Yatler and South Australia, and I was saying, no,
Speaker 3: that's a hard prison, you know, it must be must
Speaker 3: be right, it must be a bit of a goal,
Speaker 3: you know. And yeah, he was walking up for weeks
Speaker 3: and weeks and weeks, and then he ended up getting bail.
Speaker 3: When he got bail, one thing I didn't realize is
Speaker 3: that he was good friends with the fellow who ran
Speaker 3: me over and tried killing me. Right, so he started
Speaker 3: going around spreading rumors that definitely didn't happen. Well, that's
Speaker 3: not going to happen, you know what I mean. He
Speaker 3: ended up he ended up doing a drug run and
Speaker 3: one of his mates, his best mates, got done with
Speaker 3: a heap of weed and gave him up. Said, look,
Speaker 3: I'll give my mate up. I still on a drug run,
Speaker 3: just coming down from Melbourne with some methamphetamine and you know,
Speaker 3: just to get me off these charges. So as he's
Speaker 3: done that, old mates come through, got done with the
Speaker 3: methamphetamine that he had, and then he's gone informant on
Speaker 3: he's drunk drug syndicate boss as well.
Speaker 2: And then that went all over.
Speaker 3: The anti news and stuff like that, and that just
Speaker 3: struck a nerve, you know, really upset me.
Speaker 1: And so that was what was going through your mind.
Speaker 1: And then the jaile world that you're living in, the
Speaker 1: only way to deal with that is jail justice, and
Speaker 1: that was jail jail justice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well that's that's that's the only way I
Speaker 3: could see it, especially because like everyone in jail, especially
Speaker 3: all the hard. Lads all knew about it, you know,
Speaker 3: knew what he was doing or knew what he was
Speaker 3: saying about me, and so.
Speaker 1: It was making you look weak.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: If I didn't do anything, then definitely one hundred percent,
Speaker 3: you know, like they definitely would have respected me.
Speaker 1: So you got another four years for that, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got an extra four years that concurrent with your two
Speaker 1: years were concurrent and so too on the bottom and
Speaker 1: two on the top. Okay, So the way you're going there,
Speaker 1: because that's early in your sence, you keep up that
Speaker 1: type of behavior you might see the outside of the prison.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I've I had a few few actual like
Speaker 2: big prison prison fights inside still to this day, when
Speaker 2: the correctional officers trained and rookies, they used two of
Speaker 2: my fights in prison as a in the training, just
Speaker 2: to show you how quick things can escalate, just in
Speaker 2: the prison.
Speaker 1: Not showing it's not showing your technique.
Speaker 2: Or yeah, just showing you how how quick like somebody could.
Speaker 1: Change and how how explosive it can be.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and just you know, like so
Speaker 3: you know, like it's that was the first eighteen months
Speaker 3: two years that I was in jail, you know, it
Speaker 3: was just yeah, things were was was all trapped in
Speaker 3: maximum security men, I feel feel the young fellows and
Speaker 3: all that, and anybody that came in that was obviously
Speaker 3: you know, the child sex offender, you know, or any
Speaker 3: sex offender or an informant or a give up or
Speaker 3: any violence against crime, crime against women and children. You know,
Speaker 3: it was they got got you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And that's just how it was.
Speaker 1: And that that was when you talked in part one
Speaker 1: about being on edge the whole time and yeah, always
Speaker 1: being alert and ready to go that. Yeah, they're using
Speaker 1: you as a demonstration of how explosive prison can be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely, and you know, like it especially maximum security,
Speaker 3: like you just a lot of people don't understand every
Speaker 3: single person in that in that little sector. You know,
Speaker 3: like when you're getting unlocked, everyone's on edge and everyone's angry,
Speaker 3: everyone's got something to prove, and there's a lot of
Speaker 3: people that they're just mentally unstable.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: If they get to have a ship phone call with
Speaker 2: their misses, all.
Speaker 1: They're going to take it out and something yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, or if you made if you made too
Speaker 3: much noise too early in the morning. You know what
Speaker 3: I mean, he just kick off, like I've seen people
Speaker 3: get half killed for that.
Speaker 1: You know. Were you ever on the receiving end?
Speaker 2: Never? Not once? Yeah? Yeah, thank god?
Speaker 1: But that was okay. So I'm getting the sense of
Speaker 1: it that you carried your carriage yourself well in prison,
Speaker 1: in that amongst in mates. Yeah, what was the catalyst
Speaker 1: that thought, Okay, I don't want to be this person,
Speaker 1: I've got the term of life around What how did
Speaker 1: that come about? Because what you describing there? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can look after myself. Yeah, I'll deal out justice. I
Speaker 1: don't get got it's to me, it's looking like it's
Speaker 1: just going to be You're going to come out unrepentant
Speaker 1: and more dangerous than when you went in. What changed it.
Speaker 3: Was when like because it was a target obviously by
Speaker 3: the offices and stuff like that, and they just didn't
Speaker 3: want to meet a progress. They always messed with my
Speaker 3: I was always try to get on my nerves, trying
Speaker 3: to get me to strike and do stupid things, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So I was always I was always angry, Like there.
Speaker 3: Was every single time, like every day they came out
Speaker 3: Max block and then I was always down the back cell,
Speaker 3: separate confinement. You know, so twenty three hour lockdown, you know,
Speaker 3: like I'd let you out for one phone call, fifteen
Speaker 3: minute phone call, that's it, and then you're back in.
Speaker 3: So after doing all that time down there, you know,
Speaker 3: like I had a mate, I made a mine because
Speaker 3: I had no TV nothing, and I was and I
Speaker 3: hated reading, like I just absolutely hated. So I tried
Speaker 3: reading that many books, the buile everything at that boob.
Speaker 3: After a few pages, it's gone. And to get on
Speaker 3: special meals, like you know, see they got like these
Speaker 3: good cooks in the prison, and so the prison meals
Speaker 3: was shit. But if you got on a special meal,
Speaker 3: you'd be on like mean, it's like wickedest diet meal,
Speaker 3: you know. And everyone's like, oh, you need to get
Speaker 3: on the special meals.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was like, how do you get on that?
Speaker 3: And they're like, nah, I told them I'm Muslim, you know,
Speaker 3: it's a Neil process, no ham you know, but they
Speaker 3: were I was like, yeah, well, I'm not Muslim.
Speaker 2: I can't say that, you know. So I said, I'm
Speaker 2: going to tell them I'm Buddhist. So I went and
Speaker 2: told him I was Buddhist.
Speaker 3: You know, re filled out a request for him and said, oh,
Speaker 3: look my religions and Buddhism in stuff like that. And
Speaker 3: then it worked, you know, so then they approved it,
Speaker 3: and then they started giving me these like mad meals.
Speaker 3: And then it's one young fellow he was mad as
Speaker 3: like just punch on every day with anybody. He thought like,
Speaker 3: he's like, oh, my brother, you know, you know you
Speaker 3: always told me that your.
Speaker 2: Buddhist is a book. Read this because he reads all.
Speaker 3: The time, you know, And he passed this book on
Speaker 3: Budhism through the latch and I was thinking, yeah, no worries,
Speaker 3: thank you, my brother. And I put it on the table,
Speaker 3: you know, I left it there for about two days.
Speaker 3: But every day every day he's like, you read that book, kit,
Speaker 3: it's good. And I was like, okay, you started reading it? Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I thought, hang on, I said, this Blake's pretty
Speaker 3: switched on, this young fellow, you know, like and if
Speaker 3: he thinks, if he catches me out lying line to him.
Speaker 1: It's going to be on. You know.
Speaker 3: I said, I'm better start reading this book in case
Speaker 3: he starts asking me questions. So I opened it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I started reading this book, you know, on Buddha,
Speaker 3: and I never put it down I read it to
Speaker 3: to I finished it, and you know it's by the
Speaker 3: time I got released from prison, I read every single
Speaker 3: book in Alice Springs pre Corrections and Darwin on Buddhism,
Speaker 3: arm Zen and mindfulness. And but what actually specifically changed
Speaker 3: my mindset and stuff like that was one that assault too,
Speaker 3: and I could you know, I've got an next four
Speaker 3: years and all that, and too the fact that I
Speaker 3: was in there for a crime I didn't commit.
Speaker 2: So I'm losing all those years, you know, and back.
Speaker 2: And then I was thinking, right, I.
Speaker 3: Could get life, I could lose my life for this
Speaker 3: crime I didn't commit. You know what am I going
Speaker 3: to What's what am I going to achieve? You know
Speaker 3: what I'm going to get out of this absolutely nothing,
Speaker 3: you know, except for what I've got a gangster on
Speaker 3: in jail so now, and I'm going to start changing
Speaker 3: my life, you know. And then I sat there and
Speaker 3: I was just in my in my room, just contemplating
Speaker 3: to myself, thinking about it hard, you know, and I thought, Bob,
Speaker 3: and just the light bulb just switched on and I said, no, no,
Speaker 3: I'm going to start helping helping his young ladies. Because
Speaker 3: there was a Royal Commission into the Youth Justice in.
Speaker 2: Don Dale in Darwin.
Speaker 3: I remember so and all the young fellows they started
Speaker 3: turning eighteen now and started coming into the maximum security
Speaker 3: and when they were turning eighty in coming to maximum security,
Speaker 3: some of them couldn't read it right and when so
Speaker 3: I was grabbing it their briefs and that and reading
Speaker 3: it for them and helping them out. And some of
Speaker 3: the stuff I read, you know, it was pretty disgusting.
Speaker 3: So I thought, now I'm going to help these help
Speaker 3: these young lads, you know, And I.
Speaker 2: Started doing that.
Speaker 3: So I started sitting there and helping them with their
Speaker 3: cort proceedings and started helping them get through whatever, you know,
Speaker 3: their conversation payouts and you know, you own guiding them
Speaker 3: as best I can through the system, through the adult
Speaker 3: adult system because I was different to the duties as well.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, I just got got a real passion
Speaker 3: for it too, you know, and I thought, hey, I
Speaker 3: can do this on the outside, you know, because they
Speaker 3: all started listening to me, and Dan had a lot
Speaker 3: of respect for me as well.
Speaker 1: Did you find you found that sort of you got
Speaker 1: something from that, like instead of being the tough guy
Speaker 1: here you are being the teacher and guiding people and
Speaker 1: all that was that personally you felt like it was
Speaker 1: something worthwhile.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, no, definitely, like from where I was to
Speaker 3: like the respect was I was getting from being the
Speaker 3: tough guy to the respect I was.
Speaker 2: Getting from helping people.
Speaker 3: It was just like as a backflip and completely different, a
Speaker 3: complete opposite kind of a respect, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So so that's when I started just deciding to help them.
Speaker 3: I thought no, and I made a promise to myself.
Speaker 3: I remember in the back cells, the officers come down
Speaker 3: and I a t the ninja turd and they're like,
Speaker 3: all right, offhouse, put your hands for the latch.
Speaker 2: You know, we're going you got a visit.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh yeah, I put my hand through
Speaker 3: the latch and then they escorted me to the visit
Speaker 3: area and I was like, oh yeah, and then we dropped.
Speaker 3: We dropped one another prisoner off there too, for Max book,
Speaker 3: and I was like, what about me, I've got a visit?
Speaker 3: Like yeah, your visits in reception and that's where the
Speaker 3: detectives come to visit. Yeah, you know, so here we
Speaker 3: got more charges or something, you know, So then they've
Speaker 3: scored me to a reception and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: where are they know, the detectives and then he's like, no,
Speaker 3: you know, there's no detectives waiting for you here, and
Speaker 3: then he like made a gesture like an aeroplane, you know.
Speaker 3: And I was thinking, Oh, I'm going to Alice Springs,
Speaker 3: you know, and they're like yeah. I thought this is
Speaker 3: going to be hectic, you know. So because I've never
Speaker 3: been Alice, I didn't know anyone in Alice, even though
Speaker 3: all my.
Speaker 1: Face is a prison in Alice, yeah.
Speaker 3: And even all my family and that like majority of
Speaker 3: my family from Alice Springs, and I thought, nah, no,
Speaker 3: this is next level, you know. So then I waited
Speaker 3: there and it was it was it's a bit over overboard,
Speaker 3: like how they I remember still remember, like I was
Speaker 3: freaking out because they had like TRG come police like
Speaker 3: guns and stuff, hats, guards like they like yeah, like
Speaker 3: they chucked me shackles and all this, and then you know,
Speaker 3: I only weigh like Adie kilo, you know, and they
Speaker 3: got me on this airport escort and they've taken me
Speaker 3: from a Holtz prison and down to down down airport
Speaker 3: and they're floating and like coppers a block and there's
Speaker 3: traffic off, so we can go straight through the lights
Speaker 3: and yeah, they're all masked up, and yeah, I was
Speaker 3: like I thought, I thought, oh, there must be like
Speaker 3: seats or something going on around here. And then the
Speaker 3: next light coming through and there's more than I was like,
Speaker 3: hang on. And then when we pulled into the airport,
Speaker 3: like they blocked all the roads off, so then like
Speaker 3: the entourage can just like police escort and everything.
Speaker 2: Is this for me? And ibously like yeah, I was like,
Speaker 2: this is a joke, you know.
Speaker 3: And they had a police plane one of the they
Speaker 3: had an actual they chucked me on a bloody on
Speaker 3: the government police play flew me down there by myself
Speaker 3: to Alice Springs.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, why they transfer.
Speaker 3: They reckonize a security risk because because of all the
Speaker 3: fighting and I was punching on with everybody.
Speaker 1: And Jesus, mate, you get kicked out by your yangs,
Speaker 1: you get kicked out of the prisons. We're going to
Speaker 1: find the place. I want to continue on. But I'm
Speaker 1: just curious. I've never heard someone learn about Buddhism because
Speaker 1: they were afraid to get into trouble, because they weren't
Speaker 1: reading a book, because they lied about being a Buddhist
Speaker 1: to get a better meal. That's an out there story.
Speaker 1: But did you take away stuff from all the reading
Speaker 1: that you got from the books.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well this is where it gets interesting. When I
Speaker 3: got to Alae Springs, what I read in those books
Speaker 3: related to everything, like how the mind works, how you
Speaker 3: how like your everything, your emotions.
Speaker 2: You know, it just tells you.
Speaker 3: It just gave you examples how to tap into your
Speaker 3: mind or your different feelings, your anger, your anxiety, your
Speaker 3: depression and all that. And then it comes up with
Speaker 3: scenarios on how to like instead of when they first happened,
Speaker 3: instead of like reacting this way, don't react at all
Speaker 3: as much as you want to sit back and wait
Speaker 3: till you calm down and then make a decision and
Speaker 3: try going this way. And then when I got Taylor Springs,
Speaker 3: I made us like in my head, I was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, when I get here, for my entire sentence,
Speaker 3: I'm going to get one hundred percent clean record in
Speaker 3: Alice Springs. I'm not going to do one fight. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to have one fight. I'm not going to
Speaker 3: have one misconduct, not one argument. You know, I'm just
Speaker 3: going to get through this sentence with a clean slate,
Speaker 3: and if I can't do that, then I'm definitely when
Speaker 3: I get out of prison, there's no way in the
Speaker 3: world I'll be able to handle it outside of jail.
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, so you're testing yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So as soon as I landed, I remember, yeah,
Speaker 3: they threw me in Max Block in Alice Springs and
Speaker 3: that was day one of testing everything, you know, because
Speaker 3: I was still a very angry, angry follow But then
Speaker 3: I started putting those practices that I was reading in
Speaker 3: those books in the place, when I was put in
Speaker 3: situations every day in that place, and before you knew it,
Speaker 3: like six twelve eighty months, two and a half years later,
Speaker 3: like I actually trained myself to like you'd feel anxiety,
Speaker 3: like you'd feel your senses would heightened, Like if there
Speaker 3: was tension there, you get a little bit tense. But
Speaker 3: from when I was in Darwin, from when I first
Speaker 3: came in, it was tense. And then I'll put it
Speaker 3: on them. You know what, you've got a fucking problem,
Speaker 3: or you're staring at something and you never go one,
Speaker 3: let's go in the room, you know, to looking at
Speaker 3: it things and it's like that's just you're just thinking
Speaker 3: it and feeling it, but it's not there's nothing in it,
Speaker 3: you know, because yeah, it just got to the point
Speaker 3: where it just didn't even bother me in the end,
Speaker 3: and even the officers when they're trying to make my
Speaker 3: life hard in prison, and oh, well, you know, and
Speaker 3: I just walk off with it. Before i'd be really
Speaker 3: argumentive and try and prove them wrong.
Speaker 1: You know, simple but powerful message, isn't it. Like, And
Speaker 1: I've heard that before, and though I tried to check
Speaker 1: myself on it. Sometimes, don't react, stop think and then
Speaker 1: take your time before you Yeah, you buy into something, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a simple message, and you, in the life that you've lived,
Speaker 1: how many times would that saved you if you adopted
Speaker 1: that earlier? Every time stopped think what are you going
Speaker 1: to do? I'm going to yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And for months I thought this bullshit.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not working. It's not working. It's not working.
Speaker 3: But but I didn't realize it.
Speaker 2: It works.
Speaker 3: Just it's just every time that you practice it, it
Speaker 3: just you get better, just that little bit every single time,
Speaker 3: and to the point where you'll get it to a
Speaker 3: level where fire out like I was walking in the
Speaker 3: situations like I remember one time we had like forty
Speaker 3: prisoners rounding up trying to mob one of my nephews.
Speaker 3: And my nephew come up to me, you know, and
Speaker 3: he's like, I think all these fellows are looking at us,
Speaker 3: you know, because me and my nephew was having a
Speaker 3: conversation in the dorm and one of the other prisoners misheard,
Speaker 3: but we'll talk eavesdropping and thought we put the other
Speaker 3: ones on the dog. So he's gone out and told
Speaker 3: the block, the whole block. They're like, oh, let's let's
Speaker 3: get these day and dogs, you know, like that's how
Speaker 3: they were, you know. And then my neph came up
Speaker 3: to me and he's like, and I said, now you
Speaker 3: just paranoid, you know that this is how it was,
Speaker 3: Like this how I built myself. You know, you're just paranoid.
Speaker 3: And I was all steering to it. I was like, nah,
Speaker 3: I said, that's just how they are, you know. And
Speaker 3: then yeah, one of my mates come over like, way,
Speaker 3: what you what was you more talking about in there?
Speaker 3: Early on, you know, one of the locals.
Speaker 2: That I'm good friends with.
Speaker 3: I was like, no, no, this is We're just having
Speaker 3: a conversation about this, this, this and this and oh,
Speaker 3: these my be are saying that you put them on
Speaker 3: the dogs.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, nah, nas, I will tell
Speaker 2: them to come out here and then come in the room,
Speaker 2: you know. And I took him and we went in
Speaker 2: the room and we just had just a normal conversation.
Speaker 1: So in that situation, the old you would have gone, well, okay,
Speaker 1: if it's that someone will get get in first.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they old me I would have just walked straight
Speaker 3: up to the first one of them and just punched
Speaker 3: him straight in the face.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I would have been on like yeah.
Speaker 3: But this time I was like, oh, tell him, then
Speaker 3: let's go in the room. We'll just have a chat,
Speaker 3: you know. Own they all, I reckon. There's about ten
Speaker 3: eleven of them came in that room and we said
Speaker 3: what's like, what's the go you know, And they're like,
Speaker 3: oh no, we heard that you mob were putting us
Speaker 3: on dogs. And I was like no, no, no, no, I
Speaker 3: said you told you this?
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, I said, who told you this?
Speaker 3: They're like, oh, that follow over there, I said, tell
Speaker 3: him coming in and I said, I said, what makes
Speaker 3: you think that me and my nephew here we're calling
Speaker 3: you mob dogs? Oh no, no, no, I said, you're
Speaker 3: just a troublemaker. I said, you my be here. I said,
Speaker 3: you shouldn't be listening to him. I said, he calls
Speaker 3: drumas in this prison all I said you might be.
Speaker 3: I said, I've done years and we're years here in
Speaker 3: Alice Springs. I said, you know the situation. You knows
Speaker 3: what I'm like, like just coming over a yarn. You
Speaker 3: don't come out of a chat, you know. And I
Speaker 3: stopped a few more beings and that happened inside of
Speaker 3: ALUs because of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's really powerful the way you've Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: talking about your evolution when you're inside. When did you leave.
Speaker 2: The rebels October twenty sixteen, okay, yeah, when when you're inside?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3: A soon as I went in, sat back, had a
Speaker 3: good long, hard think about my life and where I
Speaker 3: was heading it, you know, to be honest, like, not
Speaker 3: one member come visited me.
Speaker 2: I didn't get a letter from any.
Speaker 3: Of them, stuff like that, So I just thought, why
Speaker 3: would I want to stick around? You know, I mean
Speaker 3: like catches see you later. And then I was out,
Speaker 3: you know, So it was that easy.
Speaker 1: Okay, off the drugs at this stage? Was that another
Speaker 1: part of it. Did you get off the get off.
Speaker 3: The Yeah, I've been clean nine years now, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: so October next you'll be ten years.
Speaker 1: And that was that was part of the whole package
Speaker 1: of turning your life around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, clean and sober.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Did when you're in there being the model model prisoner,
Speaker 1: did you get opportunities to study or do anything in
Speaker 1: there or breathing.
Speaker 3: Or I didn't have any any of that. But what
Speaker 3: I see this is this is another one where I
Speaker 3: sat because I told everybody from day one, and you
Speaker 3: watch this, I'm going to get out.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be doing podcasts.
Speaker 3: I'm going to be on the usual time. I'm going
Speaker 3: to start looking after these kits. I'm going to start,
Speaker 3: you know, and become famous, I said. And you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be involved in all that gangs
Speaker 3: of stuff or anything of that.
Speaker 2: I said.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm going to I can see myself
Speaker 3: doing good. You don't helping people, you know, That's that's
Speaker 3: what I want to do. That's where my passion is,
Speaker 3: and that's where I'm going to be walking as soon as.
Speaker 2: I get out of the jail.
Speaker 3: You watch the first day I get out of this place,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to go back to my rehab or
Speaker 3: whatever about that and sit back and do what everybody
Speaker 3: else does, you know, to get back into the ship
Speaker 3: and straight back into jail.
Speaker 1: You know, did you have people trying to drag you down?
Speaker 1: Because sometimes because someone changes like that makes them feel
Speaker 1: bad about themselves. Did you have to fight against that or.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, understand, like I've had. I've had old brothers
Speaker 3: and old mates and stuff like even mates that I
Speaker 3: met in jail that were good, good in jail, try
Speaker 3: and bring me out.
Speaker 2: Oh brother, let's go to the pub. Let's do this.
Speaker 2: I said, I don't drink. I will just come.
Speaker 3: And I said, now, how about you get sober? I said,
Speaker 3: you want to come, We'll catch up, go to a
Speaker 3: gym session, or I'll take you to lunch. We'll go
Speaker 3: somewhere and have lunch. You know, Oh no, no stuff that.
Speaker 3: And I said, well, why would I want to come
Speaker 3: to drink? I said, why would I want to come
Speaker 3: to a pub when I don't drink with you? And
Speaker 3: what you get drunk and be a slop?
Speaker 1: You know, if you're not drinking. There's nothing more boring
Speaker 1: than watching people drink?
Speaker 2: Is it? Hanging? All over you and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: So I just thought, you know, I've been plenty of
Speaker 3: situations and it was hard to had to cut of
Speaker 3: feel my good mates off, you know, because they didn't
Speaker 3: want to change their lives.
Speaker 2: They still wanted to continue to do what they're doing.
Speaker 3: So I'd make a decision and do what was best
Speaker 3: for myself and my life. And I told him, Straights,
Speaker 3: I love you. You always be my brothers, no matter
Speaker 3: what I said. But until you're willing to change your life,
Speaker 3: clean your act up, sober up, get off the drugs,
Speaker 3: and you want to be a father to your children,
Speaker 3: a family man to your family, I said, I'll help
Speaker 3: you any any day of the week. I said, but
Speaker 3: until you make that decision, I said, we're on different paths,
Speaker 3: We're on different journeys. I'm going this way, you're going
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 2: I said. You know, that's how it's just got to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, you've got your dreams and aspirations when you're
Speaker 1: in there and you're working towards it within yourself and
Speaker 1: changing your outlook on the way you react to things.
Speaker 1: What plans did you have when you were going to
Speaker 1: be released from prison?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So basically in my head, I thought, I said
Speaker 3: straight out like I'm going to get out, like I'm
Speaker 3: going to get in contact with all these organizations in
Speaker 3: Alice Springs because I knew I was getting proll to Alice
Speaker 3: that do stuff for troubled kids and troubled youth or
Speaker 3: even just anybody, like even troubled adults, you know, and
Speaker 3: just have a yarm with them, tell them my story
Speaker 3: and see if you know, like I could go in
Speaker 3: there and have a chat to the people that are
Speaker 3: in there and have a talk or and maybe help
Speaker 3: them or you know, like and make it do a
Speaker 3: regular thing and continue on with my train because I
Speaker 3: was coaching inside of prison as well, so I was
Speaker 3: running training programs and like training sessions and that like
Speaker 3: them sometimes we get thirty to forty prisoners even from
Speaker 3: warring communities and train with.
Speaker 1: Us just a physical training.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was just yeah, I was just like
Speaker 3: and the officer has seeing that, and they're like like
Speaker 3: this prison usually fis with that prison all the time,
Speaker 3: like they're from different warring families, you know. And then
Speaker 3: they called me up to them one day and they're like,
Speaker 3: how did you get these more training like together? Like
Speaker 3: we've never seen it before. They just like the style
Speaker 3: of training that I do, you know, like, and they
Speaker 3: asked if I could come train, if they could come train,
Speaker 3: I said yeah, like obviously not at the same time,
Speaker 3: I said yeah, yeah, I said, it don't bring you
Speaker 3: any bullshit.
Speaker 2: You know, you won't be training with us again.
Speaker 1: You know it's good for the mental health, isn't it?
Speaker 1: The training to that? Yeah? Self esteem? And yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I don't think I can ever stay that How
Speaker 1: important of this if one hundred look after themselves physically? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you had that sort of in your back pocket
Speaker 1: training and all that. So you get release, release from prison,
Speaker 1: just tell us what it felt like first of all
Speaker 1: being released and then what what you did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, to be honest, he was the scariest feeling
Speaker 2: over out in my life. Like it was normal. It's
Speaker 2: probably just as just as like bad and and like
Speaker 2: you know it's good. But I had that much anxiety
Speaker 2: and that much I'll still that afraid of being released.
Speaker 2: It's just as much as I was getting locked up.
Speaker 1: Afraid of yourself, afraid of what.
Speaker 3: I'm just afraid of, Like, I don't know I could
Speaker 3: be anything like or even like I said, more coppers
Speaker 3: out there waiting for me, locking me back up, against
Speaker 3: throwing me back and you know, I mean stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So you just you.
Speaker 3: Didn't know where you're going, You didn't know who who's
Speaker 3: going to help. You didn't know the path that you
Speaker 3: didn't know how easy, but you knew it was going
Speaker 3: to be hard to you know, can I do it?
Speaker 3: You know, like you know so and even all your
Speaker 3: old associates and your mates, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: You're like, right, look what if they ask me? You know,
Speaker 3: I don't want to be rude, because you know, some
Speaker 3: of them that take offense to you saying that I'm
Speaker 3: not going to catch up with you, and before you know,
Speaker 3: you know that could.
Speaker 1: I've heard heard people get dragged back in because the
Speaker 1: mate that they is called in the favor and they've
Speaker 1: got caught up in the ship again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that happens quite often, you know.
Speaker 3: And I just thought, you know, like all right, you know,
Speaker 3: what if you're put in a situation or anything like that,
Speaker 3: you know, but I didn't know, like I thought I
Speaker 3: was strong, you know, like I knew it, but I
Speaker 3: didn't know if I hadn't been challenged like that yet
Speaker 3: since I've been released, So I thought, if it happens,
Speaker 3: this could really mess me up, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, even me you're saying, you know, like you know,
Speaker 3: like stuff that you know.
Speaker 1: So you went out there with a little bit of
Speaker 1: trepidation and yeah, going OKAYI which way is it going
Speaker 1: to go? Had the world changed?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was pretty made Like even down down
Speaker 3: down was massive.
Speaker 2: McDonald's was self serve.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I was used to walking up to a counter and pay,
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm like standing around like what, like
Speaker 3: what's everybody doing?
Speaker 1: The change was confusing enough being on the outside why
Speaker 1: it was changing, So I can imagine.
Speaker 3: Now that's right, and you know what, to be honest,
Speaker 3: like when I got out, I just got thrown out
Speaker 3: on the street. No help, nothing like that, you know,
Speaker 3: like help from the people that I asked for help,
Speaker 3: but like they could only help me in what they
Speaker 3: were employed to help me with, but their job roll
Speaker 3: was you know. So yeah, I'd pretty much just feel
Speaker 3: it all out for myself and for myself and yeah,
Speaker 3: and just work and work hard, and especially being a
Speaker 3: probably like doing a seven years and just been later,
Speaker 3: you've got problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost set up to fail.
Speaker 3: You know, And I actually see why a lot of
Speaker 3: people do fail after that, Like just luckily that my
Speaker 3: mindset was that that's set on my path where a
Speaker 3: journey that I wanted to go is that I knew
Speaker 3: that I could not fail.
Speaker 2: I knew straight out. I was like, yeah, no, no,
Speaker 2: I can.
Speaker 1: I can see the commitment in your face that Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a path I'm going. So what what did
Speaker 1: you do when you got there?
Speaker 3: So when I got out, I went to a rehab there.
Speaker 3: Da'sa owned a house. I already had a job lined up,
Speaker 3: so I outsourced employment. While I was still in jail.
Speaker 3: I got a mate who was friends with one of
Speaker 3: the builders of his own company, and he's like, yep,
Speaker 3: not tell him to come in, come see me. You know,
Speaker 3: done everything like that, man, I like took for months
Speaker 3: months before I got prole and outsourced everything, got everything,
Speaker 3: got it all sorted, went to rehab, and then as
Speaker 3: soon as I did that, I went into the gym,
Speaker 3: signed up to the gym, went straight into a boxing
Speaker 3: academy there and just asked, Hi, hit him up, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, like I just want to know if I
Speaker 3: can do some training and you know, if you need
Speaker 3: any volunteers, you know, like I'll be keen to volunteer
Speaker 3: and help us out anyway I can, you know.
Speaker 2: And they're like, yeah, yeah, no worries.
Speaker 3: We'll see come down tomorrow and we'll see what and
Speaker 3: what what gym was that R and a community academy.
Speaker 1: Okay, and how that? How that play it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, Well, you know I went back and they've heard,
Speaker 3: like the head coach that he's heard it from a
Speaker 3: lot of paroles to plenty of times, you know, and
Speaker 3: they've just stuffed up everything, like rocked up one session
Speaker 3: and never come back, you know. But I rocked up,
Speaker 3: and then the next night I rocked up, and then
Speaker 3: the next night. Seven days a week, I was rocking it.
Speaker 3: And then I started running the six am class there.
Speaker 3: And so I was getting up from rehab, driving to their,
Speaker 3: running the six am class, driving to work, working from
Speaker 3: seven to four, driving back to boxing, opening it up,
Speaker 3: and then getting when all the young lads and all
Speaker 3: that would come, you know, made sure it's clean and that,
Speaker 3: and that'd warm up, do some do some pad work
Speaker 3: and stuff like that in the mag and then as
Speaker 3: soon as soon as five thirty kick off. When would
Speaker 3: all train together? You know, if I wasn't running a session,
Speaker 3: was I was training with them?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, And what message were you giving the
Speaker 1: young fellas?
Speaker 2: You know, just.
Speaker 3: Like starting the straight and narrow, you know, don't don't
Speaker 3: get hooked on the drugs and that sort of laught.
Speaker 3: I was thinking that this is gangs, So that's gangster,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like what you are doing now,
Speaker 3: is that's what you want to be doing. Going to
Speaker 3: boxing every day, you know what I mean, going to
Speaker 3: school straight out of school, they're riding their pushbikes doing
Speaker 3: boxing and then straight up for that they're going like
Speaker 3: some of them even had jobs, you know, so I was,
Speaker 3: you know, I was in school working and boxing full time.
Speaker 1: You know, people don't understand that, you know. I know
Speaker 1: I'll get some pushback because I'm always talking boxing on
Speaker 1: this because boxing on the podcast, Boxing is my thing.
Speaker 1: You give kids discipline like that, and then in boxing
Speaker 1: you see more than not more than anything, but you
Speaker 1: see reward for effort. You don't get good unless you
Speaker 1: put the effort in, and I think that's what points
Speaker 1: people in the right direction. You get rewarded if you
Speaker 1: put the effort in. So what you're telling me there,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of Yeah, we hear down here
Speaker 1: in Sydney about the problems youth crime in the Northern
Speaker 1: Territory and Queensland. There's problems down here as well, obviously,
Speaker 1: but it's giving them some purpose, giving them some self
Speaker 1: esteem and yeah, have you seen the changes in the
Speaker 1: kids that you're working with?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I definitely see changes. And when I'm around
Speaker 3: so I've seen these same kids like the ones you're
Speaker 3: seeing all over the news, hanging out of stolen cars
Speaker 3: with machetes and doing burnouts on the lawns and trying
Speaker 3: to they're chasing they're chasing the cop cars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not please aren't chasing them.
Speaker 3: They're actually turning around and he's a ten, eleven, twelve
Speaker 3: thirty year old kids.
Speaker 1: I think that was shown the across the world, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3: And they're actually in the cop I remember one day,
Speaker 3: I've seen this cop car flows straight past me and
Speaker 3: then this car full of teens kids chasing them, and
Speaker 3: they drove to the police station, had the compound gates open,
Speaker 3: drove into the compound gates and got a clothes so
Speaker 3: the kids couldn't drive through there and read them, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Like, but those same kids, when
Speaker 3: they see me, they come up and give me hugs
Speaker 3: and knuckles and mister, can you shout us a feed?
Speaker 3: Because the first day I got out, I still remember
Speaker 3: this to today. I remember hearing about these three kids
Speaker 3: and this and that, and I got out. I had nothing,
Speaker 3: you know, when I went to jail. You know, I
Speaker 3: thought the brothers that I did time for whatever, like
Speaker 3: they would back me up and throw money in my caundle.
Speaker 3: When I got out, I just done, you know, I
Speaker 3: just done this thing here. I just done seven years.
Speaker 3: And I didn't get out with nothing, you know, I
Speaker 3: mean not even they didn't even have anything waiting for me,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So when I got out,
Speaker 3: I was just built what I have today, you know,
Speaker 3: just off my own back. I still remember I drove
Speaker 3: down to macas Are and other springs, and I've seen
Speaker 3: about I was about no about ten, maybe ten to
Speaker 3: fifteen kids on Pushwip's there standing at the front of makers.
Speaker 3: And instantly I thought, oh, well, they're at the front
Speaker 3: of a food food you know, they're just hungry, you know.
Speaker 3: So I went through the ride through, and I pulled
Speaker 3: up and I could see these people walking in, but
Speaker 3: like anybody that gave them kind of grief or like
Speaker 3: daggers or whatever like that, that they'll don't try and
Speaker 3: intimidate them, you know.
Speaker 2: And then they was sitting there and they looked over
Speaker 2: it me and I was like, wait, what are you young?
Speaker 2: What are your young fellows doing? Like, oh I missed
Speaker 2: a cool cool face, that's yeah. I was like, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: he's hungry.
Speaker 3: And they're like, yeah, yeah, we're just waiting for family,
Speaker 3: you know, in case our family drives through. Going to
Speaker 3: ask and I buy us a feed, And I said,
Speaker 3: I'll buy us a feed, but you've got to leave
Speaker 3: after here. I said, dismal good people because I knew
Speaker 3: the manager.
Speaker 2: And I'll go there all the time. The manager and
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, they are good people, you know.
Speaker 3: That was like, and he's like yeah, yeah, all right then.
Speaker 3: So I went and shout them all feed, you know.
Speaker 3: And then as I was about to jump in the
Speaker 3: car and lead, they're like, oh, can you buy us?
Speaker 3: Can you come down to the pedroal station and buy
Speaker 3: us something? I was like, all right then, So I
Speaker 3: drove in the pedroal station. And when I walked in,
Speaker 3: all that was all they wanted was toys, you know,
Speaker 3: so they're pulling toys.
Speaker 2: Off the rack and and funny and funny enough.
Speaker 3: Feels it was a like a cap gun, like a
Speaker 3: police badge, and it's one of those toys, you know,
Speaker 3: and I was thinking no, no, And then I paid
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 2: All you know, they all took off.
Speaker 3: I bought them a few kind of surprises and that too,
Speaker 3: And ever since then they've always respected me. You know,
Speaker 3: they're always every time they see me, ala mister and
Speaker 3: give me knuckles and need all these same kids, And
Speaker 3: I asked him, I spumped intohim about a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks later, I said, hey, what that can to surprise
Speaker 3: that you?
Speaker 2: You know, I got you. What do you do with
Speaker 2: that toy?
Speaker 3: And a couple of them like no, no, mister, we
Speaker 3: gave it to our sister, you know, like, oh that's solid.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well that's Jesus like making the difference little acts
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the fact that they respect you, and maybe
Speaker 1: it was meant to be with all the tattoos over
Speaker 1: your face and all that, because I think the kids
Speaker 1: will look at that they'll you've got their attention to
Speaker 1: start with. Yeah, and if you're steering them in a
Speaker 1: good direction. But yeah, well the youth crime up there,
Speaker 1: what what do you think the way it could be fixed?
Speaker 1: And that's a big question that a lot of people
Speaker 1: have been thinking about. But where where do you reckon
Speaker 1: the core of the problem is Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Look to be honest, I honestly wouldn't have reckoned the
Speaker 3: call the problems just with the adults that they're surrounding
Speaker 3: them with.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like for a private sale
Speaker 2: of alcohol in.
Speaker 3: A community is like two hundred anywhere between could be
Speaker 3: two hundred, two hundred and fifty dollars for a bottle
Speaker 3: of Jim Beaman, I mean.
Speaker 2: Seven hundred meal bottle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so instead of these, instead of the
Speaker 3: kids and all that getting fed with that money, the
Speaker 3: adults their parents and they are going and buying you know,
Speaker 3: like bottles and stuff like that and spending the food
Speaker 3: money on that, and the kids got to go on
Speaker 3: the street and fend for themselves and you know, fight
Speaker 3: for themselves to get a feed and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and some of them they go back to jail juvis
Speaker 3: because they get fed in that in thee you know
Speaker 3: what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a sad said cycle, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: How do you reckon you can make a difference? What
Speaker 1: are the other stuff you've been doing? Like the boxing
Speaker 1: that was what you got into initially. How long you've
Speaker 1: been out for and.
Speaker 3: Now I've been out for nearly two and a half years. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: so January twenty twenty three I got out.
Speaker 1: Okay, what the other stuff are you doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So basically all I do is, well, I've been invited
Speaker 3: to a few forums and conferences and stuff like that
Speaker 3: for the youth. A few programs that I've got coming up,
Speaker 3: and ones that I pay for out of my own
Speaker 3: pocket too, you know, like it's so I don't get
Speaker 3: any funny and like this next one in September, you know,
Speaker 3: like it's I had a few young lads and that
Speaker 3: asked me if I could go up to a community
Speaker 3: just out of Catherine and teach them how one I
Speaker 3: stayed sober for nine years too, how I've left the club,
Speaker 3: the gang life three, how how I'm still doing what
Speaker 3: I'm doing today and how I got to do with
Speaker 3: what I'm doing today and they want me and with
Speaker 3: all the prison and all that I've done, you know,
Speaker 3: they just want me to tell me teach them that
Speaker 3: and then running through a training session in the afternoon
Speaker 3: in the night, so you know, like I said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: no worries. And you know, it started off just just
Speaker 3: me and a couple of the young lads, you know,
Speaker 3: and then like now it's blown out, Like I've got
Speaker 3: some really good people like wild Man, like Dame Duffey
Speaker 3: from wild Man Adventures. He's agreed, he wants he's flat,
Speaker 3: he's coming out. And I've got Ann Didness, comedian from
Speaker 3: w A. You know, Shane O, Uncle SHANEO. He's agreed
Speaker 3: to come along too. You know, a couple other big
Speaker 3: names that.
Speaker 2: Again to pop up.
Speaker 3: And then we're going to go out there and just
Speaker 3: run this like little program and stuff like that. And
Speaker 3: it's not even a program, like it's just me going
Speaker 3: there talking to them and then like we're going they're
Speaker 3: going to teach us. I said, well how about you,
Speaker 3: because I looked at all their photos on Instagram and
Speaker 3: I've seen it all the hunting photo, all rangers and
Speaker 3: that out there, I said, well, how about you just
Speaker 3: take us out in your land. We'll go camping for
Speaker 3: two three days, and you teach us about the land
Speaker 3: culture and stuff like that, would take us fishing hunting,
Speaker 3: I said, And when Arvo comes, I said, well, we'll
Speaker 3: all get painted up. We'll go find a nice spot
Speaker 3: in the floodplains, get all the boxing gloves and that out.
Speaker 3: And I said, I've got my nephew up and down.
Speaker 3: You know, it does a bit of boxing up there.
Speaker 2: I said.
Speaker 3: We'll run you through, you know, half an hour forty
Speaker 3: five minute session every night that we're out there. And
Speaker 3: then we'll go to sit down the fire while the
Speaker 3: food's getting cooked and we'll have a yarn, and then
Speaker 3: I'll teach you how I taught myself to be doing
Speaker 3: the stuff that I'm doing today, and how about self
Speaker 3: control and just living a much better life, you know
Speaker 3: then living a drama free life, you know, so much
Speaker 3: more enjoyable, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: I can see the Yeah, I can see the joy
Speaker 1: in your face talking about it, your light up, talking
Speaker 1: about making a difference like that and what you just described.
Speaker 1: I'm just picturing that. That seems so cool. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: you know, them feeling a sense of worth taking you
Speaker 1: out on their land and showing you their ways and
Speaker 1: then you you give me back a little bit like that. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a ripple effect too, isn't it. You're
Speaker 1: not going to not going to change the world, but
Speaker 1: doing one thing if you can change one life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: imagine if someone got hold of you early in your
Speaker 1: life and steered you in the direction, gave you a
Speaker 1: wake up call before you've done your ten years and yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah and things.
Speaker 2: Now, that's that's that's one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: And you know, like I know, because it's because it's
Speaker 3: difficult too, like you know, like trying to get to
Speaker 3: this kid. Like I've gone to a couple of these
Speaker 3: programs and stuff like that too, and they're just not interacting.
Speaker 3: They just don't want to be there and things like that.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I've did visits to soul Bush soap bushes like a
Speaker 3: pre release kind of pre prison for kids too. I
Speaker 3: used to run every Friday, I run a boxing program
Speaker 3: with them and just run through fitness fitness sessions and
Speaker 3: that like every Friday, you know, for eighteen nearly two years,
Speaker 3: you know. And so it's so the way I get
Speaker 3: to it really is or get messages to everyone there
Speaker 3: plus plus especially them, is TikTok, Instagram and Facebook, you know,
Speaker 3: and it's just absolutely gone viral. A couple of videos
Speaker 3: over that, you know, like and because I know that's bang.
Speaker 3: As soon as they see like here all facetted up,
Speaker 3: you know, ankle monitor bang instantly interested in what what
Speaker 3: what look I've got to say, you know, and I'll
Speaker 3: start watching the amount of messages and inboxes I get
Speaker 3: from them wanting help and support, like and from follows
Speaker 3: in jail that have gotten out and say from Perth
Speaker 3: like I'm talking casualine and hate here yat.
Speaker 2: People just flat out like I don't even know. I'm
Speaker 2: just hig brother, you know, my brothers.
Speaker 3: You know, I just got out of lock up and
Speaker 3: casuine and your name's getting thrown around prison there, you know,
Speaker 3: from all the Nunga lads, you know, all the all
Speaker 3: the indigenous, like they will watch your reels and they
Speaker 3: are like you're getting spoken about it and they want
Speaker 3: to do what you're doing.
Speaker 2: You know, it's cool.
Speaker 1: Tell us how people can find it? How where where
Speaker 1: can they find it? On social media? People listening to them?
Speaker 2: Ye yeah, it was just it's just my name and
Speaker 2: they shatt an altouse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, just Google that and we'll type
Speaker 3: that into the search box and yeah, they'll find it all.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and because you know, like obviously finding it
Speaker 3: difficult to get ochre cards and that because they were
Speaker 3: the crime that I was I got done charge with.
Speaker 2: You know, they're violent, was a violent offense.
Speaker 3: And because I haven't been out of prison long enough,
Speaker 3: so the best way to but these kids and all,
Speaker 3: they're over So they're over TikTok and all that most
Speaker 3: of the time anyway, So you know, you get you
Speaker 3: get more of a message to them through that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff than what you would.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're having difficulty with the establishment to work
Speaker 1: work with kids because yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: different way of reaching out to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: So and it's just not just the kids too, like
Speaker 3: it's it's every anyone, you know what I mean. I've
Speaker 3: seen the struggles of kids and adults, you know, and
Speaker 3: I was one of those adults, you know. So and
Speaker 3: then I came out of it and absolutely smashing it
Speaker 3: and loving it now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So, and I know when I was in jail.
Speaker 3: There was a lot of my mates and a lot
Speaker 3: of that wanted the same journey that I'm doing now,
Speaker 3: they just keep getting trapped in that cycle.
Speaker 1: Well, kids, and you know it's not rocket so understand this.
Speaker 1: But kids won't listen to someone that doesn't walk that path. Now,
Speaker 1: if straighty one eighty goes in there and tells these kids, look,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be doing this, they laugh and run away.
Speaker 1: You go in there and your life's experiences. What about
Speaker 1: in mental health with men and mental health? You say
Speaker 1: you're trying to help help adults. What's your message to adults?
Speaker 1: Not the kids that find themselves they're thinking they can
Speaker 1: never turn their life around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just simple, you know, like follow my journey.
Speaker 3: Have a look at mine and Jeffrey Morgan's, like it's
Speaker 3: all logged, it's all recorded, you know, Like you just
Speaker 3: google my name and it just comes up with an
Speaker 3: article after article from my past when I was you know,
Speaker 3: when I was a bit of a bit of running up,
Speaker 3: you know, So the good articles that I've been doing
Speaker 3: in the last couple of years, you know, if I
Speaker 3: could do it, there's no absolutely no excuse for anybody
Speaker 3: out there whatsoever to say that they can't, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like because the life that I had,
Speaker 3: even through the near you know, the attempted murders.
Speaker 2: On myself, you know what I mean, you know, and
Speaker 2: then you know, like and then.
Speaker 3: Going to jail for all those years before that crime
Speaker 3: they didn't commit like that break that break you know,
Speaker 3: some of the strongest blokes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well yeah, it was that. Yeah, you learn
Speaker 1: up there or in prison, and Jesus, you came, you
Speaker 1: came close to bath, you came. Where are you a family?
Speaker 1: You're still in contact with family and you're in a
Speaker 1: relationship or HER's life going for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, so I'm I'm definitely still in contact
Speaker 3: with my family in dawn and stuff like that, and yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 3: I've got a I've got a missus, you know, a
Speaker 3: beautiful lady. She's she's in I was just on the
Speaker 3: Gold Coast with her dad. Yeah, she's she's she's from
Speaker 3: the Goldie but she lives in ALUs for about ten.
Speaker 2: To thirty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah so yeah, yeah, so she's she's definitely one of
Speaker 3: a kind of love of my life.
Speaker 1: She's she's enjoying the journey that you going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's the opposite. You know, she likes to be
Speaker 3: like trapped up. And she's not a not a people's
Speaker 3: people you know. I mean, yeah, she's like real, real reserve.
Speaker 3: You don't.
Speaker 1: Provert and you're you're out there on social media.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm out there just blowing up, you know. But
Speaker 3: you know, like she's always supportive. She always send me
Speaker 3: some some mad messages and stuff like that, or support
Speaker 3: loves you know, loves the fact that the reason why
Speaker 3: I'm doing what I'm doing. You know, like she's attracted
Speaker 3: to that too, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think anyone would look at this and go,
Speaker 1: that's that's cooling, trying to make a difference, and it's
Speaker 1: balancing the ledger, isn't it. Yeah, the stuff that you've
Speaker 1: done and now this is what you're doing. And I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer in it. But no one wins if
Speaker 1: we just keep blokes like you down, Like what what's what?
Speaker 1: What joy is that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3: And you know, like, and I've even caught up with
Speaker 3: deputy superintendents and out of the anti corrections even wrote
Speaker 3: a letter to the commissioner and all that and said, look,
Speaker 3: you know, like put all the bullshit aside. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was an ex gang member. I was an ex
Speaker 3: prisoner and all that that shouldn't they shouldn't put a
Speaker 3: boundary or a barrier.
Speaker 2: Between you and I in order for me to come
Speaker 2: in there and have you answer these these fillers and
Speaker 2: try to get them as behaving going the right track,
Speaker 2: you know, and they just yeah, they just didn't want
Speaker 2: to borrow it.
Speaker 1: Like yep, No, I think there's examples here in New
Speaker 1: South Wales where they're becoming more open minded about that
Speaker 1: and seeing the benefits of people going in and yeah,
Speaker 1: passing on messages like that, people that have walked the path,
Speaker 1: because it does make a big difference, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, it definitely does.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Like I spent thirteen thousand dollars enough to film this.
Speaker 3: It's only a little short doc about my life before
Speaker 3: like when I went to jail. So it's got a
Speaker 3: little clips and stuff like that before I went to
Speaker 3: jail to what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1: You know, where where will people find that?
Speaker 2: On Instagram? TikTok?
Speaker 1: Yeah, got the title or just with your.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll see like the like it's just a video there,
Speaker 3: but you'll see like little news articles scattered around it too.
Speaker 3: So like you know, from when I was like chatting,
Speaker 3: auth House, mentoring youth and Alice Springs and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So you see these little articles that pop up around it,
Speaker 3: and then yeah, if you just click onto it or
Speaker 3: just start playing, you know, and it starts off with
Speaker 3: like a Channel nine news report when they were talking
Speaker 3: about me going to jail, you know, so.
Speaker 1: I, well, obviously do my research before. I haven't guessed
Speaker 1: on Jeff vouch for you one hundred percent. And I
Speaker 1: chatted with you, and I liked the conversation we had,
Speaker 1: and I looked online. Yeah you've got the good and
Speaker 1: the bad. There's that ying and yang thing you got,
Speaker 1: yeah post and yeah, yeah your violent past, the things
Speaker 1: that you did. Have you got any regret or remorse
Speaker 1: about things that happened happened in the past.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely had definitely had some some regrets and remorse.
Speaker 3: I remember one time, actually two thousand and just before
Speaker 3: I got ran over, I think it was two thousand
Speaker 3: and sixteen, twenty sixteen, And this is when.
Speaker 2: I was still a little bit violent.
Speaker 3: But I remember the one There was one young fellow
Speaker 3: likes me, but when we were younger, you know, I
Speaker 3: punched him around and I still remember this day that
Speaker 3: I walked into the nightclub and I've seen him and
Speaker 3: he got frightened and he was he was all right,
Speaker 3: like you know, I just somebody convinced me to punch
Speaker 3: him around and yeah, just being an idiot and I
Speaker 3: did it, and just being a follower those that was
Speaker 3: back in the day, you know.
Speaker 2: And I went straight up to him and I apologized
Speaker 2: to him.
Speaker 3: I remember that, and you know, you know, like and
Speaker 3: you know that's like I said, I've made peace with
Speaker 3: my enemies, you know, and stuff like that, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll be quite happy even to jump on the podcast
Speaker 3: and with them and you don't shake their hand and
Speaker 3: front of everyone and just show like, you know, so.
Speaker 2: That peace can be.
Speaker 3: You can make peace with your pass and yourself no
Speaker 3: matter what the situation is, no matter who what your
Speaker 3: enemy done to you, like you can do it, you know.
Speaker 3: And that's that's where my head is right now. Like
Speaker 3: my head is at that stage right now where I
Speaker 3: could literally go to the follow who tried killing me
Speaker 3: right now and if you think we'd be sitting in
Speaker 3: there and I'd try nothing nothing but love and shake
Speaker 3: his hand and say, look, I've forgiven you. It's people
Speaker 3: as that like you know, I hope you know nothing
Speaker 3: but the best things for you in life.
Speaker 1: It's empowering, isn't it. Like I've got people that hate
Speaker 1: with a passion, But if I let that hate go,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, problem problems, problems gone. Like it
Speaker 1: is powerful to forgive. And I know we're talking talking
Speaker 1: deep here, but yeah, there's people that I'd love to
Speaker 1: smack their heads in, But then I think, no, I
Speaker 1: just let it go. I won't let it worry me.
Speaker 1: I forgive them, as you said, get on with their life.
Speaker 1: They're just trying to live their life. I'll live my life.
Speaker 1: And it takes a lot of a lot of pressure
Speaker 1: away from you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And they're just on a different journey.
Speaker 3: Like and their mindset, like I said, they're their education
Speaker 3: levels of their mindset is just not as as quipped
Speaker 3: as yours.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and well you're a classic example. I probably m two.
Speaker 1: You evolve, You learn, Yeah, you make your mistakes and
Speaker 1: you learn.
Speaker 2: You see reason and you see reason not to do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? And you.
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: But why would you? What are you going to achieve
Speaker 2: out of this?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like, where are you're heading?
Speaker 3: If you do that? There's only one place. The other, well,
Speaker 3: there's two things you're going to go probably more than
Speaker 3: likely it's jail and with enemies.
Speaker 1: Now, and that's at the end of the day. Do
Speaker 1: you feel good about it? You're not going to feel
Speaker 1: good about it. You've taken a piece out of yourself.
Speaker 1: So I can't believe how much you learned just because
Speaker 1: you're lied about being I lied about being get a better,
Speaker 1: get a meal. Maybe that's the way. Yeah, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that was the way that you were meant to
Speaker 1: meant to learn. That's a classic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's right, you know. And now now actually
Speaker 3: everything that pops up on my Instagram that it's got
Speaker 3: anything to do, what is them or mindfulness or zen
Speaker 3: or anything, I'm straight onto it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, where do you hope your life will be
Speaker 1: in ten years time?
Speaker 3: It's funny, like I just really really do, like, you know,
Speaker 3: I hope that you know, I can still just continue
Speaker 3: on doing this journey, but have have people. I'm in
Speaker 3: the process now flying to Perth. I just came back
Speaker 3: from the Gold Coast. I got a invite to Melbourne.
Speaker 3: I've got to invite to South Australia to be on
Speaker 3: a national board for what I'm doing now, you know, so,
Speaker 3: and I'll try to build like a like a like
Speaker 3: a group of us, you know what I mean, we
Speaker 3: all can share, share our views and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: don't together.
Speaker 2: And there's a few, not all of.
Speaker 3: Them are you know, just good good people grew up
Speaker 3: in wealthy homes and stuff like that. Just to continue
Speaker 3: doing that, getting the word out, getting a heap of
Speaker 3: people follow me, and then when I go, you know,
Speaker 3: like start a campaign through the NT and get these
Speaker 3: kids from the streets into parks, training, getting their fitness up,
Speaker 3: getting their education back up, you know, get them you know,
Speaker 3: get them some sort of sense of life and living
Speaker 3: and to move them. So then yeah, because they're going
Speaker 3: to be running the country one day, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. So like we don't want these kids and
Speaker 3: mess up, like because they're getting more and more and
Speaker 3: more and more every single year, thousands and thousands of
Speaker 3: thousands just getting worse and worse and ways.
Speaker 1: Well, incarceration right in Northern Territory for Indigenous kids.
Speaker 2: Is it's unreally Yeah, yeah, it's it's a chocker.
Speaker 1: I've seen the benefits down here around Redfern with stuff
Speaker 1: that Shane Phillips and he's mob do with tribal warrior
Speaker 1: and yeah, without prejudice, and it just yeah, it blows
Speaker 1: my mind. And I look, I hope, yeah, I understand
Speaker 1: the resistance from government organizations and that go will look
Speaker 1: at his past and all that, but I hope they
Speaker 1: can see past that, like, yeah, you're a classic case
Speaker 1: is don't judge a book by its cover.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's a hundred percent. And you know what's
Speaker 3: funny too, I've had a couple of organizations, you know.
Speaker 3: When I got out, I reached out to him and
Speaker 3: asked him if you know, like if I could do something,
Speaker 3: they could, you know. But now that I've blown up,
Speaker 3: they've gotten in contact with me and asking if I
Speaker 3: could do something. When I was straight out, I was like, yeah, no,
Speaker 3: I was like, you want me to come do that?
Speaker 3: It's going to cost you. You know, you should have
Speaker 3: let me come in, you know, Like, well, and.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. And I don't think you know, I
Speaker 1: can't give business advice. I'm not qualified for that by
Speaker 1: any means. But yeah, the stuff that you're doing costs money,
Speaker 1: and you've got them earn a living as well.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3: And you know what, Still to this day, everything I've
Speaker 3: done is voluntary. Like this trip that I'm doing now
Speaker 3: cost me tens of thousand dollars. The trip in September's
Speaker 3: costing me tens of thousands of dollars. The dock I
Speaker 3: spent out of my own money that cost me in
Speaker 3: a thirteen towns. I've not ever got any funding or
Speaker 3: anything whatsoever for everything I've done. Everything's been valid. I
Speaker 3: paid for my own fuel, pay for my own travel,
Speaker 3: my own accommodation, like for the last two and a
Speaker 3: half years. You know, it's just and it just puts
Speaker 3: me just luckily enough that the bloke who gave me
Speaker 3: an awesome job when I got released from jail and
Speaker 3: gave me a promotion, and he's getting another promotion, he's
Speaker 3: paying enough money that I can just sit back and
Speaker 3: I can I can work for you know, like a
Speaker 3: couple of months, and then that can pay for these trips. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, full full credit to you. Do you you
Speaker 1: look back and think, Okay, I didn't get off to
Speaker 1: the best start, But are you you happy with the
Speaker 1: way your life's turned out there? Yeah?
Speaker 2: One hundred percent.
Speaker 3: Like, definitely didn't get off to a best start the
Speaker 3: journey that I'm heading now and where I'm at today,
Speaker 3: I'm just blowing away, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 3: the people that's that I'm surrounding myself with the people
Speaker 3: that are getting in contact with me and willing to
Speaker 3: help me. You know, there's a lot more a lot
Speaker 3: of others. That's why it just goes to show, you know.
Speaker 3: That's why I try to tell people like just follow
Speaker 3: my journey, like you don't need other people to help you, like,
Speaker 3: you know, like as in for money wise whatever like that.
Speaker 3: You just got to know inside your own your own mind,
Speaker 3: your own willpower, that you can be successful. You can
Speaker 3: get out there, you can work, you can work hard,
Speaker 3: and you can educate yourself every single day and better
Speaker 3: your education in order to head down that direction, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, So to get life coaches and
Speaker 3: stuff like that. You know, Like that's one thing reason
Speaker 3: why I used to watch reels in that all the time,
Speaker 3: like we read books on that mindful's bosom and then
Speaker 3: now I watch reels and that on Instagram whatever like that,
Speaker 3: and signed up with Jeffrey's online coaching and program too,
Speaker 3: because you know, it just it helps that much in
Speaker 3: order to take me the next step further, like and
Speaker 3: a lot of people just don't realize that. But back
Speaker 3: in the day, I'd be like, that's all bullshit, that's
Speaker 3: all bullshit. But it wasn't until something traumatic happened to me,
Speaker 3: like the near death experience and their near life experience
Speaker 3: in prison that woke me up and snapped me out
Speaker 3: of it and actually giving it a good shot, like
Speaker 3: not just picking the book up and reading a few
Speaker 3: pages and that's not doing nothing, or somebody giving you
Speaker 3: a bit of advice and you practicing it for a
Speaker 3: week or two or a month or two and then
Speaker 3: it's not working. But these things take months and months
Speaker 3: and months, not just weeks or a couple of months. Here,
Speaker 3: no quick fixes, no, No, it's like months, not a
Speaker 3: couple of years, you know, like years before even you
Speaker 3: even start to see something, Like you might not see
Speaker 3: it in the first six to twelve months, but others
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? And then before you
Speaker 3: know it, like far out you're doing things that I'm
Speaker 3: doing now, you know.
Speaker 1: Look, and people wanting to hear your message. I think
Speaker 1: that's that's interesting too. Yeah, definitely at the moment, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard about it I said, yeah, we want him
Speaker 1: on and get him on the pok us. But you
Speaker 1: know that's the way you got to spread the message
Speaker 1: and you might inspire other other people and you're getting
Speaker 1: you're getting the respect doing something that's worthwhile too. Yeah
Speaker 1: the respect is a tough guy. And but there you
Speaker 1: look at that and go, this is better, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Most definitely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's way way more enjoyable, you know. I like,
Speaker 3: you know, just to go out there, get out, have
Speaker 3: a feed, go catch up with all these like all
Speaker 3: these young lads and stuff like that, and go out
Speaker 3: and do some training, training sessions and with them, have
Speaker 3: a have a yarn to them and a chat and
Speaker 3: tell them what, you know, where their life would be
Speaker 3: heading if they go down that direction, Like you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's not this. And not to glorify one of
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff because they might think, you know,
Speaker 3: like oh, yeah, you know, sex, drugs and money and
Speaker 3: stuff like that. You know, that's the high life or whatever.
Speaker 3: But that's that's just the tiniest bit of part of
Speaker 3: what actually happens.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more, it's all it's more you know, assaulting
Speaker 3: or that collecting or you know, stuff that life threatening,
Speaker 3: stuff that could end your life.
Speaker 2: And whether it's you know, like six foot hundred.
Speaker 1: Or in jail, well, you know, we've heard quite a
Speaker 1: few redemption stories on eye catch killers. But Shannon, full
Speaker 1: credit to you, mate, like you should be proud of
Speaker 1: what you're doing, and thanks for being so open and
Speaker 1: honest and talking about what you've been through in your journey.
Speaker 1: But I wish you all the best. Yeah, No, appreciate
Speaker 1: that good stuff. Keep up with good work. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been great having the yarn with cheers