1 00:00:03,450 --> 00:00:06,300 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,980 --> 00:00:09,730 Sean Aylmer: Last year, there were dire predictions of a wave of 3 00:00:09,730 --> 00:00:13,720 Sean Aylmer: insolvencies in Australian businesses as government support was removed and 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,360 Sean Aylmer: the full impact of the pandemic hit, but that just didn't happen. 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,020 Sean Aylmer: It doesn't mean, though, that businesses are in the clear and as we approach two years 6 00:00:23,020 --> 00:00:26,340 Sean Aylmer: of reduced demand and activity, the outlook for business depends 7 00:00:26,340 --> 00:00:29,150 Sean Aylmer: not just on the industry they're in, but their location in 8 00:00:29,370 --> 00:00:34,010 Sean Aylmer: Australia too. Every month, CreditorWatch releases its business risk index, 9 00:00:34,210 --> 00:00:37,460 Sean Aylmer: providing a leading indicator of the health of business. Patrick 10 00:00:37,460 --> 00:00:40,550 Sean Aylmer: Coghlan is the CEO of CreditorWatch And my guest this morning. Patrick, 11 00:00:40,550 --> 00:00:41,270 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:44,100 Patrick Coghlan: Thanks for having me, Sean. Great to be here. 13 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:48,019 Sean Aylmer: The report covers October, which is a pretty unusual time 14 00:00:48,020 --> 00:00:51,010 Sean Aylmer: and as much as lockdowns were being lifted, certainly in 15 00:00:51,010 --> 00:00:54,190 Sean Aylmer: New South Wales and to some extent in ACT, how 16 00:00:54,190 --> 00:00:55,830 Sean Aylmer: much did that impact the index? 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,100 Patrick Coghlan: Look, yeah, it's been a really interesting one having released 18 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:03,100 Patrick Coghlan: this only two months ago and what I think we've 19 00:01:03,100 --> 00:01:07,220 Patrick Coghlan: learned through the pandemic, in particular, is the importance of data 20 00:01:07,780 --> 00:01:10,310 Patrick Coghlan: and how timely it is. You look at the RBA 21 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:14,390 Patrick Coghlan: releases and housing price numbers and whatnot and it's often 22 00:01:14,830 --> 00:01:17,470 Patrick Coghlan: a quarter late and what we need right now is 23 00:01:17,470 --> 00:01:21,670 Patrick Coghlan: something that comes out monthly, weekly, sometimes even hourly. So look, 24 00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:27,360 Patrick Coghlan: there's certainly been an impact. We've seen particular hurt for Victoria, 25 00:01:27,430 --> 00:01:30,720 Patrick Coghlan: Melbourne in particular and of course, also, the Gold Coast. 26 00:01:30,730 --> 00:01:34,130 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Construction still tops the list of sectors most at 27 00:01:34,130 --> 00:01:35,680 Sean Aylmer: risk of payment defaults, is that right? 28 00:01:35,970 --> 00:01:40,220 Patrick Coghlan: Yes, that's right. They're actually the slowest payer and they 29 00:01:40,220 --> 00:01:44,060 Patrick Coghlan: were traditionally the slowest payer of all the industries, even pre- 30 00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:47,800 Patrick Coghlan: pandemic. What we find, though, is they're consistently slow so 31 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,700 Patrick Coghlan: it doesn't necessarily mean that they are at the highest risk of 32 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,300 Patrick Coghlan: insolvency or failure in the future. We just know that 33 00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:58,910 Patrick Coghlan: if you're dealing with someone in construction, relying on someone 34 00:01:58,910 --> 00:02:05,040 Patrick Coghlan: to pay you from the construction industry, they are typically going to be later, but they keep it consistent if nothing else. 35 00:02:05,330 --> 00:02:08,610 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Which, I mean, in a sense, consistency is perhaps 36 00:02:08,730 --> 00:02:10,739 Sean Aylmer: not a bad thing, though I'm sure everyone wants to 37 00:02:10,740 --> 00:02:11,470 Sean Aylmer: get paid sooner. 38 00:02:11,910 --> 00:02:15,370 Patrick Coghlan: That's right. Look, at least you can cash flow forecast 39 00:02:15,370 --> 00:02:17,440 Patrick Coghlan: off the back of that at the very least. Yeah. 40 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,880 Sean Aylmer: Who's at the top of the list of most likely 41 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:21,680 Sean Aylmer: to default? 42 00:02:22,270 --> 00:02:25,030 Patrick Coghlan: Most likely to default at the moment and slowest payer 43 00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:28,010 Patrick Coghlan: is accommodation, food and beverage. 44 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:28,350 Sean Aylmer: Right. 45 00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:31,480 Patrick Coghlan: Which is probably no surprise given they have been locked 46 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,540 Patrick Coghlan: down essentially for 20 months. There was this huge uproar about the 47 00:02:35,540 --> 00:02:38,660 Patrick Coghlan: construction industry being shut down for two weeks and the 48 00:02:38,660 --> 00:02:43,930 Patrick Coghlan: poor hospitality sector's been locked down almost since March 2020. And then, the 49 00:02:43,930 --> 00:02:47,200 Patrick Coghlan: second one that comes in there is arts and recreation, which 50 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,490 Patrick Coghlan: is obviously pretty closely aligned to that accommodation, food and 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:51,280 Patrick Coghlan: beverage sector. 52 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:56,250 Sean Aylmer: But potentially, both those sectors could improve fairly quickly as 53 00:02:56,250 --> 00:02:57,350 Sean Aylmer: the economy reopens. 54 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,070 Patrick Coghlan: Definitely, definitely. And we're already seeing receivables gains in those 55 00:03:02,070 --> 00:03:06,450 Patrick Coghlan: sectors. And then, anecdotally speaking, I'm in Sydney, trying to 56 00:03:06,450 --> 00:03:10,260 Patrick Coghlan: get a lunch booking in the city is virtually impossible, 57 00:03:10,260 --> 00:03:13,260 Patrick Coghlan: which is really good to see and I actually went to 58 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:15,130 Patrick Coghlan: Hamilton on Sunday and it was packed. 59 00:03:16,669 --> 00:03:16,860 Sean Aylmer: Oh, wow. 60 00:03:16,860 --> 00:03:19,779 Patrick Coghlan: The play, I should say, or the musical and yeah, it was packed, so it's good 61 00:03:19,780 --> 00:03:21,420 Patrick Coghlan: to see those venues doing well again. 62 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,700 Sean Aylmer: Okay. The report also talks about businesses in the accommodation, 63 00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:28,250 Sean Aylmer: food and beverage sector that have hung in there during 64 00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:33,030 Sean Aylmer: the lockdowns, but probably won't actually emerge from their circumstances 65 00:03:33,030 --> 00:03:34,600 Sean Aylmer: as the economy reopens. Why? 66 00:03:34,910 --> 00:03:38,690 Patrick Coghlan: Look, there's certainly some question marks over plenty of businesses 67 00:03:38,690 --> 00:03:43,030 Patrick Coghlan: in those industries that have been hardest hit like accommodation. 68 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:46,350 Patrick Coghlan: The banks, the big banks, and in particular, the ATO, 69 00:03:46,350 --> 00:03:49,700 Patrick Coghlan: being the biggest creditors by far in Australia have been 70 00:03:49,700 --> 00:03:53,330 Patrick Coghlan: extremely lenient and have been on Team Australia since the 71 00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:57,750 Patrick Coghlan: early days of this pandemic and they've been supported through, 72 00:03:57,750 --> 00:03:59,930 Patrick Coghlan: but eventually, we will get to a point where the 73 00:03:59,930 --> 00:04:02,230 Patrick Coghlan: support has to come to an end and I think 74 00:04:02,330 --> 00:04:05,110 Patrick Coghlan: there's obviously going to be businesses that need to be 75 00:04:05,110 --> 00:04:07,930 Patrick Coghlan: allowed to fail, as harsh as that sounds. They just 76 00:04:07,930 --> 00:04:09,970 Patrick Coghlan: won't get back to where they need to be and 77 00:04:09,970 --> 00:04:12,330 Patrick Coghlan: the debts that they've accrued will just be too great 78 00:04:12,330 --> 00:04:12,960 Patrick Coghlan: to overcome. 79 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,650 Sean Aylmer: Okay, now the third sector at risk is somewhat surprising: 80 00:04:17,150 --> 00:04:21,160 Sean Aylmer: transport, postal and warehousing. I would've thought that they were 81 00:04:21,230 --> 00:04:24,020 Sean Aylmer: real boom areas, particularly during the pandemic. 82 00:04:24,339 --> 00:04:26,380 Patrick Coghlan: Yeah, look, this is sort of almost my favourite one 83 00:04:26,380 --> 00:04:30,400 Patrick Coghlan: to talk about because everyone goes, " Well, hold on a second. 84 00:04:30,650 --> 00:04:33,710 Patrick Coghlan: That can't be right." Or, " That's surprising." And everyone thinks 85 00:04:33,710 --> 00:04:38,020 Patrick Coghlan: of AfterPay and Kogan and Zip and this e- commerce boom. 86 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:42,400 Patrick Coghlan: The fact is, if you look closely at the ANZSIC (Australia and New Zealand Standard Industrial Classification) industry 87 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,710 Patrick Coghlan: descriptions and the actual companies that fall into it, they're 88 00:04:46,710 --> 00:04:50,839 Patrick Coghlan: quite diverse even for this particular one. Transport as a whole, 89 00:04:51,410 --> 00:04:54,190 Patrick Coghlan: no one's flying on Qantas, no one's going on Greyhound, 90 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,690 Patrick Coghlan: no one's on trains interstate or intrastate, so that's put 91 00:04:59,690 --> 00:05:03,279 Patrick Coghlan: a huge, that industry's essentially been wiped out since March. 92 00:05:03,630 --> 00:05:06,500 Patrick Coghlan: And then, if you look at couriers, for example, while 93 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:09,700 Patrick Coghlan: the ones who aligned to e- commerce are obviously kept busy, 94 00:05:10,070 --> 00:05:13,640 Patrick Coghlan: the ones who would be taking documents within a CBD, 95 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,390 Patrick Coghlan: for example, have been really hard hit. And there's been this 96 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:19,700 Patrick Coghlan: huge adoption of e- signatures, for example, so that's wiped 97 00:05:19,700 --> 00:05:23,370 Patrick Coghlan: out the need to actually ferry documents around. Yeah, it 98 00:05:23,370 --> 00:05:26,750 Patrick Coghlan: is a surprising one, but there's some extremely large businesses 99 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,060 Patrick Coghlan: that fall into it that have basically been doing almost 100 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:31,560 Patrick Coghlan: nothing for quite some time now. 101 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,940 Sean Aylmer: Patrick, I like anyone that I interview that mentions ANZSIC 102 00:05:34,940 --> 00:05:37,400 Sean Aylmer: codes. In fact, that is a first. You are a 103 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,279 Sean Aylmer: data man through and through, I can feel it. 104 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:40,610 Patrick Coghlan: That's right. That's right. 105 00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:45,979 Sean Aylmer: Look, the October Business Risk Index also identifies the top five geographical areas most 106 00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:48,730 Sean Aylmer: at risk of credit default. The top five are really 107 00:05:48,730 --> 00:05:51,330 Sean Aylmer: just two regions, the Queensland border with New South Wales, 108 00:05:51,330 --> 00:05:54,260 Sean Aylmer: so Coolangatta, Gold Coast, that area, and then parts of 109 00:05:54,260 --> 00:05:58,740 Sean Aylmer: Southwestern Sydney, Canterbury, Bringelly, Green Valley, Marylands, that sort of area. 110 00:05:59,380 --> 00:06:02,000 Sean Aylmer: Is it, I mean, I can understand the border closures 111 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:05,820 Sean Aylmer: around Coolangatta, why that's there. The Southwest Sydney is there 112 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:08,310 Sean Aylmer: because that's where the epicentre of the lockdowns were? 113 00:06:08,670 --> 00:06:11,640 Patrick Coghlan: Yeah, look, that's right. There's quite a number of elements 114 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,920 Patrick Coghlan: that go into the index. Obviously, we've got the CreditorWatch dynamic data, 115 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,279 Patrick Coghlan: which is looking at trade receivable, so how businesses pay 116 00:06:19,290 --> 00:06:22,880 Patrick Coghlan: one another but also defaults and whatnot. And then, we've 117 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,330 Patrick Coghlan: got information coming through from AFSA (Australian Financial Security Authority), which is around bankruptcy 118 00:06:27,330 --> 00:06:32,660 Patrick Coghlan: plus socioeconomic and geographic information. So if you consider Southwest 119 00:06:32,660 --> 00:06:38,430 Patrick Coghlan: Sydney is traditionally a lower socioeconomic region, there's a higher 120 00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:42,740 Patrick Coghlan: rate of individual bankruptcies, personal insolvency there as well. Plus, 121 00:06:42,740 --> 00:06:45,950 Patrick Coghlan: you then lob in the extended lockdown and the really 122 00:06:45,950 --> 00:06:49,040 Patrick Coghlan: harsh lockdowns that we had in those areas and that's 123 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,830 Patrick Coghlan: heaped a lot of pressure on them. Similar to that 124 00:06:52,210 --> 00:06:56,130 Patrick Coghlan: Coolangatta and Gold Coast region, you immediately understand that they have a 125 00:06:56,130 --> 00:06:59,960 Patrick Coghlan: high need for tourism to come through and when that 126 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:02,339 Patrick Coghlan: switched off, it puts pressure on. But the other thing 127 00:07:02,339 --> 00:07:04,680 Patrick Coghlan: that goes into that area is there's quite a high 128 00:07:04,970 --> 00:07:10,050 Patrick Coghlan: cost of living particularly around residential and commercial rents and 129 00:07:10,050 --> 00:07:13,830 Patrick Coghlan: property prices, so when there's a downturn in revenue, that 130 00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:15,989 Patrick Coghlan: puts a huge amount of pressure on. Whereas if you're 131 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,220 Patrick Coghlan: in an area where the rents to low, there's high 132 00:07:19,510 --> 00:07:23,530 Patrick Coghlan: socioeconomic wealth and there's a downturn, they can actually shoulder it a 133 00:07:23,530 --> 00:07:26,250 Patrick Coghlan: lot better. So that's why those two regions, in particular, 134 00:07:26,250 --> 00:07:27,340 Patrick Coghlan: have been hardest hit. 135 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,220 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Patrick, we'll be back in a minute. 136 00:07:34,660 --> 00:07:39,410 Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Patrick Coghlan, CEO of CreditorWatch. Okay, 137 00:07:39,410 --> 00:07:41,720 Sean Aylmer: if you bring it all together, what are we seeing 138 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,170 Sean Aylmer: in terms of, you mentioned bankruptcies in areas of Southwest 139 00:07:45,170 --> 00:07:48,170 Sean Aylmer: Sydney, what are we seeing generally, in terms of businesses 140 00:07:48,170 --> 00:07:51,970 Sean Aylmer: going into administration or bankruptcy? We were worried about this, 141 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,420 Sean Aylmer: we've spoken about fiscal cliffs, we've spoken about huge increases 142 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:57,520 Sean Aylmer: in administration- 143 00:07:58,910 --> 00:07:59,351 Patrick Coghlan: Zombie apocalypse. 144 00:07:59,351 --> 00:08:02,150 Sean Aylmer: Zombie apocalypse, that's better. None of it actually has come to 145 00:08:02,150 --> 00:08:05,380 Sean Aylmer: fruition yet. Where are we on that timeline? Are we 146 00:08:05,380 --> 00:08:07,530 Sean Aylmer: going to hit that zombie apocalypse or not? 147 00:08:08,290 --> 00:08:11,300 Patrick Coghlan: Yeah, that's right. Look, and I'm firmly on the record multiple 148 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:14,230 Patrick Coghlan: times for saying it was coming, but the extension of 149 00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:17,640 Patrick Coghlan: the Safe Harbour legislation plus, of course, the huge amount 150 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,310 Patrick Coghlan: of liquidity that was pumped in with JobKeeper and that extension 151 00:08:21,310 --> 00:08:24,850 Patrick Coghlan: through to March '21 rather than September 2020 has done 152 00:08:24,870 --> 00:08:28,590 Patrick Coghlan: a tremendous job of keeping people employed and keeping businesses alive. 153 00:08:28,940 --> 00:08:32,330 Patrick Coghlan: The fact is, we're still in this synthetic environment and we're 154 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,610 Patrick Coghlan: still 30% to 40% below pre- COVID levels in terms 155 00:08:36,610 --> 00:08:41,560 Patrick Coghlan: of company administrations, company insolvencies. Now, the question I guess, 156 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,010 Patrick Coghlan: people are asking now is, will that surge or will there 157 00:08:44,010 --> 00:08:47,540 Patrick Coghlan: be a sustained increase? And we're quite optimistic it's going 158 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:50,609 Patrick Coghlan: to be a sustained increase back up to, and probably 159 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,070 Patrick Coghlan: maybe slightly above pre- COVID numbers. It has to happen, 160 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,929 Patrick Coghlan: it's always been consistently that 8, 000 to 9, 000 insolvencies 161 00:08:58,929 --> 00:09:01,020 Patrick Coghlan: a year and it will get back to that, no doubt, 162 00:09:01,290 --> 00:09:04,670 Patrick Coghlan: but the big driver of that will be when the banks 163 00:09:04,970 --> 00:09:08,319 Patrick Coghlan: and the ATO get back into their normal collection rhythm where 164 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,580 Patrick Coghlan: we start to see them wind companies up. They're obviously 165 00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:14,970 Patrick Coghlan: in contact with their customers and their debtors, speaking to them, 166 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:18,640 Patrick Coghlan: they're offering payment arrangements, for example, but they're not pulling 167 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,590 Patrick Coghlan: that final trigger to say, " Okay, we got to wind you 168 00:09:21,590 --> 00:09:24,100 Patrick Coghlan: up here or put you into administration," but that will 169 00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:27,590 Patrick Coghlan: come and our best guess, having spoken to plenty of 170 00:09:27,590 --> 00:09:31,170 Patrick Coghlan: people across government, for example, is probably mid- next year, 171 00:09:31,179 --> 00:09:33,720 Patrick Coghlan: closer to the end of financial year. They're certainly not going to 172 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,929 Patrick Coghlan: start to do it pre- Christmas. They want to see the 173 00:09:35,929 --> 00:09:39,650 Patrick Coghlan: economy bounce back through Q1 of next calendar year and 174 00:09:39,650 --> 00:09:41,590 Patrick Coghlan: then you'll probably start to see the banks do it a 175 00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:45,140 Patrick Coghlan: little bit sooner than the ATO. And of course, not 176 00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:47,439 Patrick Coghlan: to be too cynical, but we also have a federal 177 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:48,220 Patrick Coghlan: election coming up. 178 00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:51,720 Sean Aylmer: Hm. Surely not. You also monitor a few other metrics, 179 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,390 Sean Aylmer: including credit inquiries, defaults and court actions. We started this 180 00:09:55,390 --> 00:09:57,470 Sean Aylmer: with your very first answer. My question was about how 181 00:09:57,470 --> 00:10:00,780 Sean Aylmer: important data was. All those sorts of things, are they 182 00:10:00,780 --> 00:10:05,179 Sean Aylmer: showing any changes? Are they still relatively subdued in terms 183 00:10:05,179 --> 00:10:06,820 Sean Aylmer: of defaults and court actions and things? 184 00:10:07,350 --> 00:10:11,160 Patrick Coghlan: Yeah, they have been and they're almost, they're lagging indicators 185 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,730 Patrick Coghlan: now. And they're what we have always reported on for 186 00:10:13,730 --> 00:10:17,010 Patrick Coghlan: years with our business risk review. We've now launched the 187 00:10:17,010 --> 00:10:19,920 Patrick Coghlan: business risk index, which is a forward looking index for 188 00:10:20,090 --> 00:10:23,340 Patrick Coghlan: insolvency risk, which is really powerful, but these metrics still 189 00:10:23,340 --> 00:10:26,650 Patrick Coghlan: play a really important role. Credit inquiries, I look at 190 00:10:26,650 --> 00:10:29,730 Patrick Coghlan: that as almost the heartbeat to B2B trade. It is 191 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:32,920 Patrick Coghlan: debtors applying for credit accounts, it could be trade credit, 192 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,960 Patrick Coghlan: it could be insurance policies, it could be finance, right? 193 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,979 Patrick Coghlan: And then, of course, on the other side, creditors performing searches, 194 00:10:39,980 --> 00:10:44,170 Patrick Coghlan: performing inquiries to check on the viability and the risk 195 00:10:44,170 --> 00:10:47,730 Patrick Coghlan: that these debtors, these applicants pose. We saw that bounce 196 00:10:47,730 --> 00:10:50,140 Patrick Coghlan: back really well through the first half of this year. 197 00:10:50,460 --> 00:10:54,589 Patrick Coghlan: Of course, once lockdown hit New South Wales, it tapered 198 00:10:54,590 --> 00:10:56,600 Patrick Coghlan: off, came off a little bit and it's remained, it 199 00:10:56,950 --> 00:11:00,040 Patrick Coghlan: plateaued through to at least the end of October, but 200 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Patrick Coghlan: we anticipate that we'll start to climb again. Defaults and 201 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:08,990 Patrick Coghlan: court actions, much like administrations, are at 30%, 40%, 50% down on pre- 202 00:11:09,059 --> 00:11:12,990 Patrick Coghlan: COVID numbers. Defaults started to come back in March, April, 203 00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:16,540 Patrick Coghlan: May of this year but then once the lockdowns came, 204 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,380 Patrick Coghlan: it came off again. They're interesting, what I would call 205 00:11:20,380 --> 00:11:23,240 Patrick Coghlan: false positives. They look good, but really, they have to 206 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,170 Patrick Coghlan: turn around eventually. 207 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,210 Sean Aylmer: Data, data, data, Patrick. That's what it seems to be about. 208 00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:29,189 Patrick Coghlan: We love data here at CreditorWatch. 209 00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:33,079 Sean Aylmer: What I think is interesting, lots of debate about the Reserve Bank, 210 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,630 Sean Aylmer: for example, waiting for things to happen rather than being 211 00:11:35,630 --> 00:11:39,130 Sean Aylmer: preemptive and the banks now are releasing a lot more 212 00:11:39,130 --> 00:11:44,120 Sean Aylmer: credit card data. There's the Roy Morgan ANZ Weekly Consumer 213 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,380 Sean Aylmer: Sentiment Index. One thing COVID has really brought to the 214 00:11:46,380 --> 00:11:49,900 Sean Aylmer: fore is better use of data, would you agree? 215 00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:53,520 Patrick Coghlan: 100%, yeah. And it's put pressure on the government in 216 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,230 Patrick Coghlan: particular as holders of huge amounts of good quality data 217 00:11:57,230 --> 00:12:00,390 Patrick Coghlan: to release it at least on a monthly basis rather 218 00:12:00,390 --> 00:12:02,130 Patrick Coghlan: than it being a quarter behind. 219 00:12:02,429 --> 00:12:03,691 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Patrick, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 220 00:12:03,691 --> 00:12:06,380 Patrick Coghlan: Great to be here. Thanks very much. 221 00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:10,410 Sean Aylmer: That was Patrick Coghlan, CEO of CreditorWatch. This is the 222 00:12:10,410 --> 00:12:12,870 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Green Daily Interview. Join me every morning for 223 00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:15,469 Sean Aylmer: the full Fear and Greed Podcast with all the business 224 00:12:15,470 --> 00:12:18,189 Sean Aylmer: news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.