WEBVTT - Episode 9: The Lake 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.800 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains course 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:08.960 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:42.640 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. After several 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.959 days of replaying and considering everything that Judy Singh had 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.880 described in episode seven, and he sounded like a man 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.120 ready to make a citizens arrest over his sister's disappearance. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:00.440 There was anger below the surface. He was apprehensive about 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.880 what would happen next with police. He was impatient for action, 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.440 but he was also relieved about something. Andy has suspected 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.759 John infoul play since a couple of months after Bromwin vanished. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.080 But Andy is confident now that a puzzling thing which 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.039 had been nagging him for thirty one years has been answered. 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.480 I'm interested in hearing your idea about this eleven oh 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:32.679 six pm receipt for fuel that was purchased on the 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:38.120 Sunday night, May sixteen, nineteen ninety three. Yep, You've been 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.800 giving that a bit of thought since Judy Singh came 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.039 forward in the podcast. 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.600 Why did he have to prove to Michelle and produce 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.920 a receipt for petrol and then again when I got home? 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.600 Maybe whatever it was half an hour or say, forty 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.440 minutes later, and then he gets the receipt out and 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.480 wants to show it to me, and then we all 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:08.679 I through to ninety eight and Glen Taylor, and one 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.440 of the first things that he wants to do with 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:15.840 Glen Taylor is showing a receipt for petrol and in 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:17.560 Ballina for eleven oh six. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.440 Evidence and the vivid recollections from people about John's reliance 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.000 on the petrol receipt way back in May nineteen ninety 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.919 three and over subsequent years has featured in a number 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:34.960 of the recorded interviews I've done over the past several years. 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.000 Clearly it's been on our minds well before we heard 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:44.680 Judy Singh's revelations. Here's the retired detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.680 talking to me in March twenty twenty one when I 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:52.440 went to his house in Ballina during that interview that 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:57.639 you did with Jonathan Winfield, can you describe the circumstances 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.280 surrounding him retrieving a receipt. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.480 I said, look, we want to go over again your 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.160 movements on that night, and then he said, well look. 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.880 I sat there for a while thinking what to do. 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.040 I had worked to finish off down there, and then 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.440 he said, well, look, I've actually even got a receipt. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.120 I can show you I've purchased fuel for the car, 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.959 and he took his wallet out. For years later, he 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.760 still had this receipt in his wallet showing that he 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.040 purchased fuel at eleven a six pm. 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:31.480 That night in Ballina. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.600 He felt the need to retain. 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.200 That receipt all those years and still had it in 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.880 his wallet. These were things that he believed that were 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:42.920 prime things in his defense. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.760 And what was the significance in your mind in that 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.400 interview of him pulling out that piece of paper, the receipt, Well, 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:50.840 look here I am. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.080 I'm definitely in Balaner at eleven a six pm that 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:55.080 night getting fuel. 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:56.600 How does that help him? 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:58.720 I don't know, but he seemed to think it was 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:03.200 a fund significance that night to say I've given down servitation. 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.440 I made a decision to go to Sydney. I needed 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.160 to get fuel and this is where I filled up 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.200 just before I started driving to Sydney. 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.880 He's not attempted to disguise the fact that he was 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.640 at the house and that he was talking to his 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.640 wife in the evening at the house. So it's a 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.160 bit of a puzzle as to why that has been 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:25.480 so important for him. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.320 It is a puzzle and it still remains a puzzle. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.479 Is there something that is missing in terms of understanding 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.760 his latching onto that receipt as something significant? There's something 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.760 that everyone's miss well. 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.120 I don't know why he wanted to show this, not 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.480 only to the police but also to Roman's family members 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.080 that here I am in Bow and look I've got 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:52.040 this receipt. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:54.000 It's still puzzling. 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.440 And were you able to verify the authenticity of the receipt. 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.680 There's nothing to suggest that the receipt was a forgery. 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.080 In so it didn't appear that he did get fuel 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.680 at eleven o six pm. But it's obviously going to 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.160 take a number of hours to get to Sydney, and 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.080 we've got evidence he had arrived down in Sydney to 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.760 his ex wash home the next morning with the children, 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.680 but we've got no other evidence to suggest where he 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.120 may have gone during the course that night or after 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:25.159 we dropped the children off. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.360 This is Andy talking to me in September twenty twenty three, 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.080 that's eight months before the first episode in the Bromin podcast. Series. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.400 I think we've got a lot of ground to cover, 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:39.680 but let's resume this. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.520 See the Blake Tarriday petrol receipt around in his's wallet 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:45.839 for years and years, and all of a sudden could 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.720 pull out this petrol receipt from a service station to 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:49.599 say you got petrol. 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.799 Here's Andy's wife, Michelle. When we talked in the Shire 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.599 in late February twenty twenty. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:02.039 Four, he gets out his wallet and he's got like 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.760 a little receipt that you get from the cashier, and 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.960 to show me that he left at eleven o six 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.279 pm from a service station, and then he put it 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.719 back in his wallet. And I kind of thought to himself, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.000 why you show me that I don't care if you've 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:21.120 got petrol, but. 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.400 Doesn't really show what time he left, does it? 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:23.800 No? 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.320 Because he could have got fuel or he could have 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:27.920 done anything. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.200 Madison Walsh and I puzzled over it in early February 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.960 twenty twenty four when we met in a cafe in 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:40.039 the Museum of Contemporary Art overlooking Sydney's circular Key. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:46.839 I can't imagine after changing the loots on the house 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.920 that she would willingly leave him with the house and 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:52.800 the kids and just sleeps. 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:57.880 Also, why did John felt the need to keep for 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.239 a seat from the petrol station for all those. 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.160 Years, carrying around in his wallet. 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.919 Yeah, that's not normal behavior unless you feel like you 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.400 have to have a defense in some way. 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.080 And here's how the detective Graham Diskins summarized that in 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.520 one of the internal police running sheets from early June 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.440 nineteen ninety three. If it sounds familiar, that's because you 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.600 heard this in episode five. 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.640 Had a long conversation with John Winfield about missing person 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.040 and reason for taking children to Sydney on Sunday night. 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.600 Stated that they travel better at night and that his 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:39.800 wife was aware that he would have them for eight 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.360 to ten days in Sydney whilst she had a break. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.480 Produced a document where he purchased petrol in Ballina at 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.760 six minutes past eleven on May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.400 This is consistent with next door neighbor hearing him leave 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.240 the premises unable to assist with phone call being made 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:01.120 from his premises at two thirteen am on the Monday morning. 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.240 Indications are that the missing person has returned to the 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.640 family home after he and the children had left and 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.720 made the call whilst obtaining her property. He still states 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.800 that after she made the call early in the evening, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.760 she walked out the front door about nine pm carrying 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.000 no property. We still can't find her handbag or a 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.240 small blue suitcase. 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.680 Throughout this episode, you are going to hear a number 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.280 of theories about why John seemed so attached to the 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:35.040 petrol receipt and where Broman's remains might be. These theories 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:40.920 are based on circumstantial evidence. While John vehemently denies wrongdoing 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:47.199 or any involvement in Broman's disappearance, these theories give Bromwan's 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.880 family hope that her remains may be found and that 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:55.640 she can one day be properly laid to rest. Now 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:00.400 here's Andy's theory about John's strange relationship with the seat 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.120 for petrol. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:06.960 And I think it's because he knows he was seen 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:12.840 after eleven ih six in Ballina by Judy, So therefore 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:18.120 he's trying to prove that he was gone, he wasn't there, 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.600 and anything Judy has to say as the relevant is. 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:27.120 That, based in part on Jude Singh's disclosure that she 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.320 had a lantern on and he looked up, she saw 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.120 him look up at the balcony one. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:40.560 It all makes sense, now, why was everything based around 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.720 that receipt? Why are you showing people that receipt? Debbie 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:46.840 would be able to tell you the same story that 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.640 he's showing her and Murray this petrol receipt that he 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.200 was eleven o six. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.760 He also produced that receipt to the detective Graham Diskin 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:02.000 in nineteen ninety three. It's mentioned in the rolling sheets. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.679 Well there you gon't, but then it's also mentioned in Taylor's, 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.760 which are five and a half years later. It just 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:15.600 struck us that, wow, there's the reason why so much 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.360 emphasis is brought on that petrol receipt. 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.680 Andy and Michelle told me that Broman had complained she 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.800 was so strapped for cash she could afford to put 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.480 only small serves of fuel in the Ford Falcon sedan. 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:33.520 The tank was never filled up. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:39.320 Particularly after she moved out and went to Byron Street. 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.360 If he realized there was no petrol. 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:42.480 And then. 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:45.240 Things have happened at home. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.920 Allegedly, the first thing he's going to have to do 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.440 is go get petrol, because you're not going to risk 0:10:53.559 --> 0:11:00.040 having the car break down run out of petrol. So 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.760 he's gone and got petrol which is where Murray's seen 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.000 in quietly leaving the house because he doesn't want anyone 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:07.640 to know. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.040 That he's leaving. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.679 He goes down the hill and around, gets the petrol, 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.960 and comes back and heads down Granite Street. 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:20.360 Whatever time that is. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.960 June's recollection is that it's very late that night, just 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:26.880 before midnight. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:31.600 And he's gone down Granite Street to do whatever he's 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:36.520 got to do, realizes he's been seen, probably goes somewhere 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:38.559 and I'm not going. 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:39.160 To say anymore. 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:43.480 It makes it stick thinking about it, and then shoots 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:48.240 back and gets the girls, which then coincides with what 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.640 Crystal always said to us, Oh I saw the clock. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.240 It was one o'clock. That timeline kind of fits. 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.000 We're the shortest route you're looking for. A body of 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:07.880 water is Lake Ainsworth. It's completely filled with cannon from 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.320 the tree trees. It's a dark lake. By the time 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.240 you got your arm in the water and you go 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.960 to the length of your arm, the chances are you 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.480 can't even see your hand. It was a lovely safe 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.559 place to take the kids and swim without worrying about 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:30.680 rips and things like that. But everyone was always mindful 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.480 to keep an eye on the kids, because if they 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.480 went off the sand bank into the deeper water, you 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.120 got buckets of finding them they went under. It's a 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.400 dark lake. Tanning in the water is unbelievable. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:49.840 The sound of the car backing out and scraping the 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:57.840 bottom is perhaps he was already getting things organized to 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:02.280 help weigh things down and we something was in the boot. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.760 And there's no way that there was enough time to 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.400 dig somewhere to hide. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.360 Bromwin the street on the right hand side of the lake, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.440 and if you go up there you can nearly at 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:22.240 some point back your car or park right beside the. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.680 Edge of the road and the water is right next 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:24.880 to you. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.880 Back then there was a road in and out, but 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:33.040 now it's actually a pedestrian path after the first few 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:33.760 hundred motors. 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.040 What's the function of the surfboard. 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:39.839 To be able to take her out to the center 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.400 of the lake where it's quite deep way down, drop 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.520 her off the board, paddle back in, come on, pick 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.760 up the girls by all out to Sydney. 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:56.000 In your opinion, the ten forty pm trip that Murray witnesses, 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.840 where the car bottoms out and then rolls down the hill, 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.920 lights off, an engine off is the first trip, and 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:05.280 that's to get fuel. 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.920 I believe, so he would have known that the lights 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:10.440 were still on in Murray's house. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.720 If you're going to leave children in the house because 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.160 you've got to go and do something, you don't want 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:17.000 them to wake up. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.120 You don't want them to hear you leaving. So he's 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:25.560 stealth away, gets the petrol, comes back packs the car, 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:27.320 match down the drive. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.600 Possible that the door didn't. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:34.760 Latch securely, and when he's backed out because of the 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.840 angle of the hill, what Judy identifies as the money 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:44.480 could have weighed or slightly bumped the door and that's 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:49.640 turned the interior light on. So he's gone very very 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:56.080 slowly down Granite Street. He wasn't banking on the poor 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:01.000 lady that's worried about miscarrying and and all sorts of 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.720 things drama's going on, couldn't sleep and was sitting on 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.920 a veranda. She actually states that he glanced up. She 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.320 knew exactly who it was, and she remembers the car. 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.480 There's plenty of locals that will tell you that car 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:20.560 at squeaky brakes. Judy has seen the car and there 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.240 was no children in the backseat of that car with 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.760 a surfboard and a mummy. Why is someone carrying at 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:34.800 receipt around for so long to prove and they left 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.720 town at eleven oh six That eleven. 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.880 Oh six pm receipt only shows that he bought fuel 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.320 at eleven oh six pm. It doesn't show what time 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:44.800 he left anywhere. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.920 But it now brings relevance to the fact of why 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.280 are you putting so much emphasis on it? 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.440 I believe he knows that. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:57.840 He was seen. Mel Taylor, Marian Deb's daughter. She has 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:02.240 a very vivid memory on Tuesday May eighteen of going 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.760 into the house and seeing the children's bed stripped of 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:10.560 their sheets. Correat, Well, we know that Broman had tucked 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:18.080 the children in correct, How would Lauren and Crystal have 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.800 coped with being woken up and had their bedstripped and 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:24.080 dad goes missing. 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.480 No, I don't believe that happened. I believe that they 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.800 were put in the main bedroom. It's just my theory 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:37.040 because Bristol when she was about eighteen or so and 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:41.160 first came down to Sydney. She came and spend a 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.680 little bit of time with us, and it's probably the 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.480 first time that we had what I'd refer to as 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:52.520 an adult conversation about the whole thing. She had this 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.640 recollection that she saw one o'clock. She thought it was 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:01.120 one o'clock when she got woken. Dad woke say we're 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:09.040 going in the car. Ian Michelle vividly, totally, totally remember 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.919 that conversation at our place that she thought it was 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:12.560 one o'class. 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.080 She went, no, no, it'sn't a lap and it was one, 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.240 like she corrected us. 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:21.200 Yeah, And bearing in mind it's a theory and it's 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:26.639 pure speculation. But you have in your mind John going 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.880 into the children's bedrooms, waking each of them up, directing 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:33.560 them to go in the mum and dad's room. 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.560 How many times have you picked your kids up and 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.680 relocated them asleep and they wouldn't even be aware of it. Yep, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.720 we've done it multiple times. 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.240 Yes, of course, you come home your kids. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:47.240 Have fallen asleep in the car. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.639 Whether they're ten and five or eight and three, doesn't matter. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.320 You pick your kids up. They probably stir, they wake up, 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.719 They cut off back into your shoulder, You carry them, 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.760 and you put down into the bed. They wake up 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:01.760 with them and they've got no idea how they got there. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.720 I believe that they were. 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.680 Possibly moved into the bedroom, put in the main bed 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:15.359 sheets obtained hence by Melt has that vivid memory, and 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:20.760 they were used to discard Bromwin. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.639 In nineteen ninety three. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.440 You could walk down the middle of Lenny's head on 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.440 a Sunday night's dark naked mate no one and see you. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.439 No one was around. It was very quiet on a 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.359 Sunday night. It's not like the Cosmopolitan, the sort of 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.560 place it is today. It's possibly some concrete blocks or 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.960 something around. I don't recall john't ever really leaving the 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.800 place that untidy, but he did. You have weights and 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.000 a bench pressing everything in the garage, bar bells and 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.600 things like that. Wap down around a body with a 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:58.840 piece of rope and tie them on. You're going to 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.720 drive straight down there, straight down the hill, straight through 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.760 the main drag, go down to Lake Gainsworth. It's not 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.600 lit up. I believe that everything would have been floated 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:12.200 out on the surfboard. Swim out with your arm over 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.280 the top of the board, using your legs and your 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.840 other arm, swim all the way out out to the middle. 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:19.840 Chip it. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.199 She's not gonna fight very well, jump back on, paddle 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:30.000 back in. Job done, ten minutes flat. It's a terrible 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:34.560 thing to be thinking of. It makes sense back aim 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:39.200 makes sense to us now bugged us for so long 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.760 Why he had to put so much emphasis on that 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:45.760 petrol receipt. 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:48.160 It's the time stamp he's after. 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.760 Yeah, it's always bugged me. I couldn't fathom it, and 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.240 you and I talked about it, and I asked Scruffy 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:01.320 about it. I did wonder what was the motive for 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.600 him to be showing people that were seen to prove 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.399 that he didn't have time to take her body and 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:13.080 bury her anywhere between A and B. The way he 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:17.879 saw it was John wanted to prove that he didn't 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:19.760 have time for foul play. 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:20.840 Yeah. 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:22.760 Well, scrappies on the money, isn't he. 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.960 I've just missed a call from Mardie. She's been doing 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.360 a bit of research too. I'll catch up with her 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:57.520 and maybe we'll talk tomorrow. Hey, Okay, goes By, you've 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:58.440 been doing some homework. 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:00.720 I have been doing some work. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.240 Since meeting Mattie Walsh in September twenty twenty three in Sydney. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.000 I have asked her to do many tasks for this 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:14.000 podcast series about the disappearance of her second cousin, Bromwin. 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.679 Maddie has done research into laws that were in existence 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:22.240 in nineteen ninety three to protect women from domestic violence, 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.320 and Maddie's done timelines around key events in the case. 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.600 She's discovered anomalies in the evidence. She has read and 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.560 summarized hundreds of pages of transcript from the five days 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.280 of public hearings of the inquest from two thousand and two, 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:43.000 and that's for a later episode. We will reconstruct the 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:46.359 evidence of key witnesses who were part of that inquest, 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:52.320 overseen by the then Deputy State Coroner Karl Milavanovitch. Although 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.639 Mattie was not born until two thousand and three, a 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:59.960 decade after Bromwin vanished in Lennox Head, Maddie has met 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.440 several of the key witnesses in this place. People liked 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:09.439 the retired detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor and Bromwin's neighbors Debbie 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:16.000 Hall and Murray Nolan. Surfer's incredible. There's a lot of 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:17.560 guys out and girls. 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.400 What do you think of I love it here. I've 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.720 been here a lot before. What's gorgeous. 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:31.000 We drove the coast road and envied the lucky surfers 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.760 who were out riding endlessly peeling perfect waves. 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.320 In my teenage years, we used to go on drives 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.560 and things around here. 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.360 Did you associate it with Bromin when you visited here? 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:47.320 I you should appeared in Lennox Heath, But I did 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:51.520 not know that they actually lived here. I was not 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.840 aware of that because I had always known Crystal to 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.119 live in Sydney. It took me a while to realize 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:01.080 that that wasn't a normal thing with other families. 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:08.000 Don't just casually have family members that I've been murdered allegedly, 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:09.520 Let's not forget the allegedly. 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:13.720 On one of my visits to Lennox, I drove Maddie 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:17.680 where deb Hall had taken me, right past John's house, 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:21.240 not the one he used to live in in Sandstone Crescent. 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.119 So did he build this next house or did he 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:26.800 just buy it? 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:27.280 Do you know. 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:29.639 He built it? 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:31.199 Interesting? 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:38.520 It does look like a fortress. I feel like a 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:40.200 private investigator. 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.760 Maddie knew from me about a woman called Judy Singh 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:49.560 long before I disclosed it to anyone else. Maddie's good 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.520 at keeping secrets. She's been a vault at twenty one, 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.840 Maddie hasn't yet joined the workforce. She's doing all of 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:01.120 this work for the podcast on a voluntary basis. Perhaps 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:04.879 that's why we call the tasks that she does her homework. 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:10.280 Since Judy Singh's revelations were aired in episode seven with 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:14.520 graphics and video reconstructions on the website of The Australian 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:18.840 and the Bronwyn podcast dot com site, Maddie has been busy. 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:20.639 What have you found? 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:27.840 I was researching into how fabric decomposes in freshwater and 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:32.920 also saltwater, and I found that polyester does not decompose 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:36.320 because it's mainly made out of plastics. And then I 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.720 searched up what surfboard covers are made out of because 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:42.040 that's the going theory that he put her in a 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:45.919 surfbook cover, and surfboard bags are most commonly made out 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:49.560 of polyester, which means that there's entirely a possibility that 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:55.040 she is still in a surfbook cover at the bottom 0:24:55.280 --> 0:25:01.199 of a body of water. But I found more things. Okay, 0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:04.080 I was looking at how much weight you would need 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.959 for a body to be submerged in water and not 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:11.400 float back up, and for a fit person like Bromwyn, 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:14.520