1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,020 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,260 --> 00:00:10,559 Sean Aylmer: Recently we saw the Federal Government launch its national cultural 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,580 Sean Aylmer: policy, $ 300 million in funding across music, literature, art, and 4 00:00:14,580 --> 00:00:17,880 Sean Aylmer: more. It was welcomed by peak bodies across the sector 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,280 Sean Aylmer: who know how to make that funding go a long, 6 00:00:20,340 --> 00:00:23,250 Sean Aylmer: long way. Now, one leader within the sector is issuing 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,489 Sean Aylmer: a challenge to corporate Australia: look to the arts if 8 00:00:26,489 --> 00:00:30,450 Sean Aylmer: you want to evolve, stay relevant, and become sustainable. Paul 9 00:00:30,450 --> 00:00:34,650 Sean Aylmer: Duldig is the Chief Executive of State Library Victoria, Australia's 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,360 Sean Aylmer: oldest and most prestigious public library. Paul, welcome to Fear & Greed. 11 00:00:39,659 --> 00:00:40,380 Paul Duldig: G'day. Sean. 12 00:00:41,130 --> 00:00:44,490 Sean Aylmer: Let's jump straight into it. What can Australian businesses learn 13 00:00:44,670 --> 00:00:46,380 Sean Aylmer: from cultural institutions? 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,740 Paul Duldig: Well, look, I think a few things, Sean. Firstly, the 15 00:00:49,740 --> 00:00:52,770 Paul Duldig: cultural institutions have been around for a long time, and 16 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,520 Paul Duldig: we know through the innovation cycle that businesses that are 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,190 Paul Duldig: at the beginning of any innovation cycle, half of them 18 00:00:59,310 --> 00:01:01,260 Paul Duldig: don't tend to be there 30 years later and another 19 00:01:01,260 --> 00:01:04,500 Paul Duldig: half, 30 years after that. But institutions like ours have 20 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:07,589 Paul Duldig: been around for 167 years. So there's something we're doing 21 00:01:07,590 --> 00:01:10,350 Paul Duldig: right, both in the eyes of the communities that we 22 00:01:10,350 --> 00:01:12,900 Paul Duldig: serve, but also the assets and the collections that we 23 00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:16,080 Paul Duldig: hold. So the kind of things we do that I 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,140 Paul Duldig: think are worthwhile thinking about, is making sure that we've 25 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,530 Paul Duldig: got a lot of really diverse voices and views in 26 00:01:22,530 --> 00:01:24,300 Paul Duldig: the room when we make decisions so that we are 27 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:28,980 Paul Duldig: adaptable and keeping pace with the community standards and the 28 00:01:28,980 --> 00:01:32,970 Paul Duldig: way that communities change, but also really looking to creative 29 00:01:32,970 --> 00:01:36,900 Paul Duldig: people, looking to the creativity in our staff and in 30 00:01:36,900 --> 00:01:39,630 Paul Duldig: our leadership to make sure that we can continue to 31 00:01:39,630 --> 00:01:42,990 Paul Duldig: adapt. I mean, the State Library is almost nothing like 32 00:01:42,990 --> 00:01:45,480 Paul Duldig: it was 167 years ago, but it's still a library 33 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,400 Paul Duldig: and it's still doing that core service. 34 00:01:48,150 --> 00:01:50,460 Sean Aylmer: I don't think State Library Victoria is anything like it was 35 00:01:50,460 --> 00:01:51,900 Sean Aylmer: 10 years ago, to be honest, Paul. 36 00:01:51,900 --> 00:01:52,500 Paul Duldig: Probably true. 37 00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:58,139 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I mean, cultural institutions have been able to adapt 38 00:01:58,470 --> 00:02:01,860 Sean Aylmer: incredibly well. Part of that is passion, isn't it? 39 00:02:02,610 --> 00:02:05,280 Paul Duldig: Absolutely. A passion and a real focus on the core 40 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,519 Paul Duldig: purpose. So we are what would be called for- purpose 41 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,060 Paul Duldig: organizations. And so absolutely, we're clear about our mission and 42 00:02:12,060 --> 00:02:14,940 Paul Duldig: we're clear why we exist, and that's the white heat 43 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:17,400 Paul Duldig: core of what we do, and the kind of approach 44 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:17,820 Paul Duldig: we take. 45 00:02:19,470 --> 00:02:21,899 Sean Aylmer: How important then is it in business to have that mission, 46 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:25,440 Sean Aylmer: to have that core purpose? And I mean, you can talk about a 47 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,100 Sean Aylmer: bank, but a bank can have a core purpose of 48 00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:33,450 Sean Aylmer: serving people to ensure that they can facilitate their life. 49 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,240 Sean Aylmer: I mean, it is as fundamental as that. It must 50 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,820 Sean Aylmer: be important then for businesses to find that in what 51 00:02:38,820 --> 00:02:39,180 Sean Aylmer: they do. 52 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,900 Paul Duldig: I believe that that's right. And I think the successful businesses do that 53 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:45,450 Paul Duldig: really well. And it comes through not just in the 54 00:02:45,450 --> 00:02:47,940 Paul Duldig: services they provide, but the way they interact with you 55 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:51,210 Paul Duldig: and the way they talk about themselves and the impact 56 00:02:51,210 --> 00:02:52,740 Paul Duldig: they have on your lives. I mean, there's lots of 57 00:02:52,770 --> 00:02:56,130 Paul Duldig: fantastic businesses out there that are real clear about that. 58 00:02:56,580 --> 00:03:00,450 Sean Aylmer: How does an organization like State Library Victoria or other 59 00:03:00,450 --> 00:03:06,600 Sean Aylmer: cultural institutions differ from businesses? Or are they just run 60 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:07,620 Sean Aylmer: like businesses? 61 00:03:08,130 --> 00:03:09,630 Paul Duldig: I would say a lot of what we do is 62 00:03:09,630 --> 00:03:11,700 Paul Duldig: run like a business. I mean, we've got some very 63 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:15,419 Paul Duldig: experienced people here that have had successful careers in business. 64 00:03:15,419 --> 00:03:17,369 Paul Duldig: And the same with when I was in the university 65 00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:20,549 Paul Duldig: sector. A lot of our leaders had careers that combined 66 00:03:20,550 --> 00:03:24,959 Paul Duldig: both a corporate background as well as a university background. 67 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,730 Paul Duldig: So I think there is a lot of good that 68 00:03:26,730 --> 00:03:30,720 Paul Duldig: comes from those perspectives around the table and the clarity 69 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,820 Paul Duldig: of decision making and so on. But I think also 70 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,720 Paul Duldig: for creative leadership and for creative people, I think one of 71 00:03:36,780 --> 00:03:39,630 Paul Duldig: the things that perhaps people don't realize is that creative people 72 00:03:39,630 --> 00:03:43,680 Paul Duldig: are extremely practical, actually. They just don't survive if they're 73 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,950 Paul Duldig: not. And so this idea that creativity is on one 74 00:03:46,950 --> 00:03:49,710 Paul Duldig: end of a spectrum and practicality's on the other is 75 00:03:49,710 --> 00:03:52,050 Paul Duldig: just a complete nonsense. I mean, the artists that I 76 00:03:52,050 --> 00:03:54,930 Paul Duldig: know, the musicians that I know, even my own arts 77 00:03:54,930 --> 00:03:57,420 Paul Duldig: practice, I know that you have to make really good 78 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,750 Paul Duldig: decisions. You have to be incredibly well practiced. You have 79 00:04:00,750 --> 00:04:03,960 Paul Duldig: to be super focused on what you're doing and very 80 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,070 Paul Duldig: aware of the marketplace that you're in. And it's almost 81 00:04:08,070 --> 00:04:09,540 Paul Duldig: the ultimate free enterprise actually. 82 00:04:10,170 --> 00:04:14,190 Sean Aylmer: It reminds me years ago, Tim Winton, the author, won 83 00:04:14,190 --> 00:04:17,310 Sean Aylmer: an award and he got $ 20,000, or I can't quite 84 00:04:17,310 --> 00:04:19,529 Sean Aylmer: remember the number, but I think it was $ 20,000. And 85 00:04:19,529 --> 00:04:20,760 Sean Aylmer: he was interviewed and saying, what are you going to 86 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,020 Sean Aylmer: do with that? And I'm expecting something incredible. And he said, " 87 00:04:25,020 --> 00:04:27,570 Sean Aylmer: I'll probably put it on the mortgage." I thought, Uh, 88 00:04:27,779 --> 00:04:30,510 Sean Aylmer: yeah. It is, I mean, one of the creative geniuses 89 00:04:30,510 --> 00:04:34,200 Sean Aylmer: that Australia has produced has to live in everyday life. 90 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,219 Paul Duldig: Absolutely. And the creatives out there absolutely doing it tough 91 00:04:38,250 --> 00:04:41,760 Paul Duldig: during COVID and during the lockdowns, and the way that the 92 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,960 Paul Duldig: creatives pivoted has been extraordinary really to survive and continue 93 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:46,590 Paul Duldig: doing their work. 94 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,870 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Paul. We'll be back in a minute. 95 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,080 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is State Library Victoria, Chief Executive 96 00:04:58,290 --> 00:05:02,130 Sean Aylmer: Paul Duldig. So how often do you see true creativity 97 00:05:02,130 --> 00:05:03,150 Sean Aylmer: in the business world? 98 00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:06,330 Paul Duldig: That's a great question, Sean. I think one of the 99 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,180 Paul Duldig: things that's worth thinking about is that within the most 100 00:05:09,180 --> 00:05:12,510 Paul Duldig: innovation active industries, about a quarter of those people that 101 00:05:12,510 --> 00:05:15,060 Paul Duldig: work in those industries hold creative qualifications. So they actually 102 00:05:15,060 --> 00:05:19,409 Paul Duldig: have creative people inside. So people with design backgrounds, fashion, 103 00:05:19,410 --> 00:05:24,359 Paul Duldig: literature, digital media, film, working in libraries and museums. And 104 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:27,300 Paul Duldig: so those people are making a significant contribution to the 105 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:31,080 Paul Duldig: innovation in those enterprises on a daily basis. 106 00:05:31,830 --> 00:05:35,520 Sean Aylmer: Is it easier to be creative? I mean, I think you've just 107 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,230 Sean Aylmer: answered the question for me, but is it easier to 108 00:05:37,230 --> 00:05:41,520 Sean Aylmer: be creative in a publicly funded institution such as State 109 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:47,279 Sean Aylmer: Library Victoria, than it is in a shareholder funded institution 110 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,530 Sean Aylmer: where every half year they've got to come up and 111 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:51,900 Sean Aylmer: report and have a share price, et cetera? 112 00:05:52,740 --> 00:05:57,089 Paul Duldig: Yes and no. So I would say yes, it's probably more 113 00:05:57,089 --> 00:06:00,600 Paul Duldig: rewarded in a public sector institution, particularly a cultural institution. 114 00:06:00,810 --> 00:06:06,480 Paul Duldig: But also, no, because the fundamental goal of a corporation 115 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,330 Paul Duldig: is to create shareholder value, and the word create is 116 00:06:09,330 --> 00:06:12,419 Paul Duldig: there in the core purpose. So you've got to be 117 00:06:12,420 --> 00:06:14,310 Paul Duldig: someone, particularly in the leadership role, you've got to be 118 00:06:14,310 --> 00:06:19,710 Paul Duldig: someone who is creating capability, creating understanding of the market 119 00:06:19,710 --> 00:06:23,370 Paul Duldig: that you're in, creating understanding of the industry and innovating. 120 00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:27,690 Paul Duldig: So again, these are really practical tools that creative people 121 00:06:27,690 --> 00:06:28,830 Paul Duldig: do on a daily basis. 122 00:06:29,190 --> 00:06:33,330 Sean Aylmer: You talk about leadership, it must be challenging to lead 123 00:06:33,330 --> 00:06:38,310 Sean Aylmer: a cultural institution when you have so many interested parties. 124 00:06:38,310 --> 00:06:41,609 Sean Aylmer: So State Library Victoria, I'm sure you, well, the general 125 00:06:41,610 --> 00:06:45,330 Sean Aylmer: public obviously, but you have government, you have peak bodies 126 00:06:45,330 --> 00:06:50,670 Sean Aylmer: and interest groups, you have education organizations, you have technology 127 00:06:50,670 --> 00:06:55,589 Sean Aylmer: groups. How do you manage keeping everyone happy or you 128 00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:56,340 Sean Aylmer: don't try? 129 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,990 Paul Duldig: Yeah, so we've done stakeholder mapping here at State Library 130 00:07:00,990 --> 00:07:04,380 Paul Duldig: Victoria, and you're right, the map is pretty complex. I 131 00:07:04,380 --> 00:07:07,469 Paul Duldig: mean, there's a lot of people who have a love 132 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:08,940 Paul Duldig: of the library, a lot of people who have an 133 00:07:08,940 --> 00:07:11,700 Paul Duldig: interest and really want it to be the kind of 134 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:14,700 Paul Duldig: library where they want to be. I mean, the beauty 135 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:18,090 Paul Duldig: of our organization is the diversity of the people that 136 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:20,580 Paul Duldig: come through the door. We have about 2 million people 137 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:24,390 Paul Duldig: a year, and just over half of those identify as 138 00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:28,920 Paul Duldig: culturally and linguistically diverse. 75% of those are below the 139 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,220 Paul Duldig: age of 35. So it's a pretty diverse range of 140 00:07:32,220 --> 00:07:34,380 Paul Duldig: people that even just coming through the door, let alone 141 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,670 Paul Duldig: thinking of themselves as stakeholders, I guess you'd say. So 142 00:07:38,670 --> 00:07:41,340 Paul Duldig: look, you can't keep everyone happy. You have to be 143 00:07:41,340 --> 00:07:42,960 Paul Duldig: true to your core. You have to be true to 144 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,260 Paul Duldig: your purpose, and you have to work with, if you're 145 00:07:46,410 --> 00:07:49,710 Paul Duldig: going to disappoint somebody, which I hope we don't do 146 00:07:49,710 --> 00:07:52,590 Paul Duldig: too often, that they understand that it's for a greater 147 00:07:52,590 --> 00:07:55,380 Paul Duldig: good, that they understand that there's a reason and a 148 00:07:55,380 --> 00:07:57,960 Paul Duldig: real deep logic and thinking behind what you're doing. And 149 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:00,660 Paul Duldig: in my experience, they accept that. 150 00:08:01,530 --> 00:08:05,370 Sean Aylmer: I'm surprised that there's such a large percentage of visitors 151 00:08:05,370 --> 00:08:08,160 Sean Aylmer: to State Library Victoria who are young. 152 00:08:08,940 --> 00:08:11,250 Paul Duldig: Well, I think that's one of the images that people 153 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:14,340 Paul Duldig: have from the outside, is that it's a place where 154 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:18,000 Paul Duldig: people are shushed all the time. And look, you only 155 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,340 Paul Duldig: have to stand in the front door of the Swanston 156 00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:22,230 Paul Duldig: Street entrance here in the State Library at 10 o'clock 157 00:08:22,230 --> 00:08:24,300 Paul Duldig: and just see, it's like Boxing Day sales. People are 158 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:28,140 Paul Duldig: rushing through the door trying to get their study cubicle 159 00:08:28,140 --> 00:08:31,679 Paul Duldig: or go to the exhibitions or whatever. And its got 160 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,660 Paul Duldig: a good vibe. It's a young place. Absolutely. It's a 161 00:08:33,660 --> 00:08:37,380 Paul Duldig: young creative place. And it's also, it's not just a 162 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:40,440 Paul Duldig: physical experience. It's obviously online as well. So we have 163 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:44,550 Paul Duldig: around 5 million hits a year on our websites, and 164 00:08:44,550 --> 00:08:47,160 Paul Duldig: when people come here, they're actually staying on average two 165 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,340 Paul Duldig: and a half hours, literally two and a half hours 166 00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:53,971 Paul Duldig: average across 2 million people, which is pretty amazing. 167 00:08:53,971 --> 00:08:56,280 Sean Aylmer: Wow. That is pretty Amazing. Now I've got to get onto the national cultural 168 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,929 Sean Aylmer: policy, which the Government announced a few weeks back. Is 169 00:09:00,929 --> 00:09:03,720 Sean Aylmer: it a good investment? Does it hit the right marks? 170 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,010 Sean Aylmer: Has it missed anything? 171 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:08,610 Paul Duldig: Look, I think it's a really good start, and they're 172 00:09:08,610 --> 00:09:11,099 Paul Duldig: clear it is a start. It's a start of a 173 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:15,000 Paul Duldig: journey over many years of putting back in place the 174 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,660 Paul Duldig: kinds of platforms that we need to be successful. And 175 00:09:18,660 --> 00:09:21,510 Paul Duldig: I'm really, really pleased that books and writing are in 176 00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:25,860 Paul Duldig: the thick of it. So there's significant announcements around the 177 00:09:25,860 --> 00:09:28,949 Paul Duldig: role that literature plays and literacy. I mean, having two 178 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:32,490 Paul Duldig: writers, two Melbourne writers by the way, on the advisory 179 00:09:32,490 --> 00:09:37,319 Paul Duldig: group, is pretty impressive, including Clare Wright, who herself talked 180 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,140 Paul Duldig: about her love for state library. So I think putting 181 00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:43,380 Paul Duldig: back music and literature into that conversation, I think are the 182 00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:47,760 Paul Duldig: two areas that we're absolutely delighted with. There's more to 183 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,809 Paul Duldig: be done. There's some more consideration of how the institutions 184 00:09:51,809 --> 00:09:54,030 Paul Duldig: are funded, of course. But I think also putting creatives 185 00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:56,910 Paul Duldig: at the heart is a key policy in there that 186 00:09:57,059 --> 00:10:00,210 Paul Duldig: is also strongly supported as well as an obvious focus 187 00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:02,820 Paul Duldig: on First Nations First. So now we are, we're really 188 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:06,900 Paul Duldig: happy with it as a national framework. And also here 189 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:10,620 Paul Duldig: in Victoria, have a very supportive state government with very 190 00:10:10,620 --> 00:10:12,060 Paul Duldig: similar thinking as well. 191 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,950 Sean Aylmer: What about business? Does business do enough to promote, I'm 192 00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:21,209 Sean Aylmer: not even saying support, I say promote deliberately, cultural institutions, 193 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:22,589 Sean Aylmer: the arts, creativity? 194 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,410 Paul Duldig: I think they could do more. I think there's opportunities 195 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:29,160 Paul Duldig: for particularly staff in a lot of businesses to engage 196 00:10:29,220 --> 00:10:33,569 Paul Duldig: more with cultural institutions and culture more generally. And we 197 00:10:33,570 --> 00:10:36,150 Paul Duldig: have a corporate sponsorship program. We have some of the 198 00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:39,540 Paul Duldig: big corporates as members of ours, and they do send 199 00:10:39,540 --> 00:10:42,179 Paul Duldig: people, their staff, along to a lot of our talks 200 00:10:42,179 --> 00:10:44,250 Paul Duldig: and a lot of our events. But I think there's 201 00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:50,130 Paul Duldig: more. The cultural industries are worth over a $ 100 billion 202 00:10:50,429 --> 00:10:53,280 Paul Duldig: to the economy, to the GDP, and the creative economy 203 00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:57,449 Paul Duldig: employs more people than mining and agriculture put together. So 204 00:10:57,630 --> 00:11:01,319 Paul Duldig: yeah, this is in and of itself, an industry as 205 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,420 Paul Duldig: well, which I think is worth pointing out. 206 00:11:04,050 --> 00:11:05,880 Sean Aylmer: Paul, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 207 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:07,230 Paul Duldig: Thank you so much. 208 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,460 Sean Aylmer: That was Paul Duldig, Chief Executive of State Library Victoria. 209 00:11:11,730 --> 00:11:13,980 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear & Greed Daily Interview. Join us every 210 00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:16,650 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full episode of Fear & Greed, Australia's most 211 00:11:16,650 --> 00:11:20,040 Sean Aylmer: popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.