Speaker 1: Apode Production. Welcome to the She Rises Podcast. I'm Ashy
Speaker 1: and I'm Tiana.
Speaker 2: This podcast is about female empowerment and encouraging you to
Speaker 2: be your biggest, boldest, and most authentic version of yourself.
Speaker 1: We help you shed the shame, grow to a new level.
Speaker 1: We're gonna laugh, cry, and talk about the topics everyone
Speaker 1: else is too afraid to talk about.
Speaker 3: Get ready for your next level of self.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, guys, Back in your ears four times a week,
Speaker 1: which is so cold, loving all the feedback and all
Speaker 1: the different variety of the episodes.
Speaker 2: You girls like variety like we do, and we know
Speaker 2: you're gonna be loving it. It's just so fun.
Speaker 1: And She Rises like a box of roses. You don't
Speaker 1: know what chocolate are you gonna go? You never know.
Speaker 2: You might get a good one, might get a really
Speaker 2: good one.
Speaker 1: Aboutally wout tooting your own horn? OHI if you're not
Speaker 1: gonna toot our own horns, no one's.
Speaker 3: Gonna do well.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it too, too, mother, Just kidding. Today's
Speaker 2: episode is all about something that you might find yourself
Speaker 2: getting trapped in. So are you mistaking inspiration for perfection?
Speaker 2: We want to talk about the petis trap and how
Speaker 2: easy it is to pedestal others and how easy it
Speaker 2: is for us to get caught up in people being
Speaker 2: this perfected, idolized version of who we think they are,
Speaker 2: and what tends to happen to our sense of self
Speaker 2: when we are prioritizing and putting people so high on
Speaker 2: a pedestal, and where we end up as well. So
Speaker 2: we kind of want to talk about that, overcoming that
Speaker 2: and how to stop pedestaling people, bringing them back to
Speaker 2: neutral and bringing yourself up as well.
Speaker 1: Definitely, something someone said to me, I cannot remember who
Speaker 1: said it to me, might have been Katie Ford, but
Speaker 1: something she said to me was, whoever you put on
Speaker 1: a pedestal will always fall off. No one is exempt
Speaker 1: from being human and making mistakes. Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1: And when we put someone on a pedestal and say
Speaker 1: they make a mistake, we are left with so much disappointment. True,
Speaker 1: and we make up all these stories about oh I
Speaker 1: thought they were this person or I thought they did this,
Speaker 1: and it's like you almost dehumanize them. Yeah, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if you're a celebrity, a social media influencer, Mum, humans,
Speaker 1: this is all of our first time living. I think
Speaker 1: some people have had other lives, but like we're all
Speaker 1: learning as we go. I don't like the whole pedestal thing,
Speaker 1: yet I do it. The person I put on a
Speaker 1: pedestal is my coach Taylor. Yeah, and I literally said
Speaker 1: that to him. It's like, stop doing that. I'm like,
Speaker 1: but you are, You're a mat Like he's perfection in
Speaker 1: my eyes when it comes to a human being, like
Speaker 1: the best heart, so knowledgeable. Yeah, his wisdom, his lessons,
Speaker 1: his playfulness, like good dad, he's a great dad. Like
Speaker 1: everything about him. I'm like, you are up there. I've
Speaker 1: never seen him lose his shit or say something negative
Speaker 1: or I don't know, just fall off his pedestal that
Speaker 1: I put him on. Yeah, he stays up there, but
Speaker 1: I know it's not productive or beneficial for him or
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: And we talked with celebrities as well. Yeah, I've definitely
Speaker 2: done it. I've done it to celebrities. I've done it
Speaker 2: to people in my life, best friends, like business coaches,
Speaker 2: because you just have so much love and admiration and
Speaker 2: you're inspired by them and you just think they're the
Speaker 2: best fucking human. And I do that with you. I
Speaker 2: love you a pedestal too, you know, And so it's
Speaker 2: just it's so easy to do because we have much
Speaker 2: admiration for others. But it also sometimes with that admiration
Speaker 2: for others comes immediately putting ourselves down. It does, doesn't it,
Speaker 2: Because it's like, well, if this person's up here, then
Speaker 2: I'm down here, yes, you know, And that's an interesting
Speaker 2: thing to do because sometimes we think. You know, the
Speaker 2: way that I used to think was that two powers
Speaker 2: couldn't exist at once. Yeah, you know, it's like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: this person is so incredible and intelligent and beautiful and
Speaker 2: amazing and you know, a good mum and all these things.
Speaker 2: And it was like automatically that meant that I couldn't
Speaker 2: be that too. It was like there was no room almost,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: It's such a good way to put it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, oh, well, if this is true,
Speaker 2: then what that means I'm automatically down here. And then
Speaker 2: it's like self deprecating and it's like, oh, well I'm
Speaker 2: not as smart, I'm not as beautiful. And you go
Speaker 2: into comparison and there's a really slippery slope from there.
Speaker 1: It's a very slippery slope. And then on the other
Speaker 1: side of that is when people put you on a pedestal,
Speaker 1: which I have experience, and I was talking to you
Speaker 1: about it the other day. It's a silly example. When
Speaker 1: I was in the fitness industry and I was leanest, fittest,
Speaker 1: like look at my best. Peoplet me on a pedestal
Speaker 1: for always eating perfect and being perfect and having my
Speaker 1: life together and all of it. And I remember grocery
Speaker 1: shopping so many times and like someone had done my program,
Speaker 1: like look at my troul and be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: do you eat that. I didn't if you ate that,
Speaker 1: I thought you were only clean eat that's what your
Speaker 1: diet plan is about clean eating. But you've got chocolate
Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, And I'm like, oho, I felt this
Speaker 1: immense amount of pressure, yeah, to be perfect with my
Speaker 1: eating all the time because I looked this way and
Speaker 1: I sold a clean any diet plan. I was all
Speaker 1: about whole food eating. There was no room for me
Speaker 1: to be balanced or enjoying my snacks or treats or whatever.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh gosh, But that was up to
Speaker 1: me to change that narrative, for me to teach and communicate.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be one way or the other.
Speaker 1: But just to bring me back down to like, I'm
Speaker 1: still a human. I get emotional and emotionally eat. Once
Speaker 1: I started talking about that, I think it brought me
Speaker 1: back down to being a human humanized me. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it was up to me to openly have those conversations
Speaker 1: and not pretend that I was perfect. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I had. Yeah, probably done for way too long. I
Speaker 1: was like, yes, I love eating healthy and cleaning. I
Speaker 1: still do now, but I like to eat ice cream.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we like a snack.
Speaker 1: I eat ninety percent or gadding, but I still like
Speaker 1: to fake ten. Yes, yes, I use the best of
Speaker 1: the best products, but I like a spray of perfume
Speaker 1: shoot me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she liked to smell good.
Speaker 1: I am not perfect in everything you do. But when
Speaker 1: you put someone on a pedestal, you're putting a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure on them to maintain this image and box
Speaker 1: that you've put them in.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Once again, not productive for you or for them or
Speaker 1: for them. Yeah O true.
Speaker 2: I remember having a friend one time pedestal me a
Speaker 2: little bit, and I always remember feeling a little bit
Speaker 2: uncomfortable with her because I felt the pressure of being like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you don't do anything wrong and I'm like, no, I
Speaker 2: fuck up all the time, you know. And I think
Speaker 2: she used to compliment me a lot on like my wisdom,
Speaker 2: and you know, she's like, we always know the right
Speaker 2: thing to say, and I was like, but no, I don't,
Speaker 2: you know, because I care and I have experiences that
Speaker 2: have helped me get a level of wisdom that you know,
Speaker 2: maybe is beneficial for you at the time. But then
Speaker 2: I was like, fuck, Like now I have to always
Speaker 2: have the right thing to say, and I can't never
Speaker 2: have nothing to say and just be quiet or you know,
Speaker 2: not say the right thing. And I just want yeah,
Speaker 2: I just remember feeling like what you were saying. Now
Speaker 2: I need to uphold this thing of like I always
Speaker 2: have the right thing to say and I always know
Speaker 2: what to say and give good advice and all that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, and.
Speaker 1: This perfect person that they've made you out to be.
Speaker 2: And then I absolutely did that all I wanted to do.
Speaker 2: I constructed my life around being well spoken and having
Speaker 2: the right thing to say and always being well presented
Speaker 2: and being smart and all that sort of stuff. And
Speaker 2: I was just like, I don't feel like that like
Speaker 2: all the time. Just want to be me, And how
Speaker 2: much harder is it to connect with people when they
Speaker 2: see you in that way where you're not allowed to
Speaker 2: make any mistakes. I feel like I'm limited to what
Speaker 2: I can actually do and be within this dynamic.
Speaker 1: You're not being authentic, no, all of you. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: polished perfection version of you that you think they want
Speaker 1: you to be, to be loved and accepted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then if you don't show up? Is that
Speaker 2: then what happens if I if I don't project it,
Speaker 2: will they leave me? Am I not good enough? Are
Speaker 2: they going to judge.
Speaker 1: Me more than yeah, someone else? I want to be
Speaker 1: that person?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Interesting?
Speaker 2: Isn't it so crazy? I remember this time I had
Speaker 2: a business coach who was also my best friend at
Speaker 2: the time. I just like pedestaled her so much, just
Speaker 2: for everything like business and life and the way that
Speaker 2: she parented and all that sort of stuff. And it
Speaker 2: just became to a point where it actually became unproductive
Speaker 2: because in the moments where I had her on this
Speaker 2: expectation of like her being superhuman, we actually had a
Speaker 2: conversation around her saying those things to me and being like,
Speaker 2: I feel like I can't be anything else, Like I
Speaker 2: can feel the pressure and the pedestal, and like, because
Speaker 2: then I would get disappointed if something, you know, she
Speaker 2: didn't show up the way that I wanted her to,
Speaker 2: all the way that I expected her to in my mind.
Speaker 2: Then I would get really like in thoughts. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like when you put a celebrity up on a
Speaker 2: pedestal and you know, let's say example, you know Justin Bieber,
Speaker 2: he's a child star whatever, and growing up he was
Speaker 2: really good doing all these things. But then he got
Speaker 2: into his teenage years and then he started doing silly
Speaker 2: things and getting arrested and drinking and middle teenager just
Speaker 2: being a teenager, and then everyone is like, why are
Speaker 2: you doing that?
Speaker 1: That's why would you show.
Speaker 3: Up like that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right an example, Yeah, yeah, and so make
Speaker 1: mistakes basically, yeah.
Speaker 2: And I just remember feeling like this was obviously not
Speaker 2: productive for her or me because it damages a friendship.
Speaker 2: For one, you can't connect, there's no vulnerability. There's almost
Speaker 2: like this invisible barrier between you and that person because
Speaker 2: you're not on the same wavelength. I just remember feeling
Speaker 2: like overly disappointed about certain things because I had all
Speaker 2: these expectations and even that for me to project it
Speaker 2: onto her.
Speaker 1: Is so unfair.
Speaker 2: It's just unfair to do it, and it's unfair for
Speaker 2: that person to receive it as well.
Speaker 1: It's both ends, isn't that I'm late? I put Levi
Speaker 1: on a pedestal. Yeah, for so many years. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it really prevented us from having a beautiful friendship. We
Speaker 1: have a really beautiful friendship. We have like a really
Speaker 1: nice bond, very similar on so many levels. But for
Speaker 1: years I put him on such a pedestal that I
Speaker 1: could even talk in front of him. Sometimes. He was just,
Speaker 1: in my eyes, the smartest, most knowledgeable person when it
Speaker 1: comes to health, fitness, business, like everything that I wanted
Speaker 1: to be. He was my business partner. I would struggle
Speaker 1: to like give ideas or voice my opinion or ask
Speaker 1: him a question because I thought he thought I was dumb. Yes,
Speaker 1: and if it would look at me in a certain way,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, he's judging me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just could not be myself around him. And I
Speaker 1: used to say he did, I'm so scared of Levi.
Speaker 1: I'm so scared to like talk to him to suggest things.
Speaker 1: I just and then one day I just pulled my
Speaker 1: fucking head out of my own asshole.
Speaker 3: That's like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, and
Speaker 3: I just got over it.
Speaker 1: I got over it and I pulled him down and
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is so stupid. And then
Speaker 1: our friendship can actually start to develop because we could
Speaker 1: just be our souls around each other. I actually should
Speaker 1: ask him if he ever felt that from me, because
Speaker 1: I never really communicated that's what I did to him.
Speaker 1: I always told him, I complimented him, you're so smart,
Speaker 1: so you said that. He never denied it. But I
Speaker 1: wonder if he ever felt that pressure for me, because
Speaker 1: once I kind of let that go, we just developed
Speaker 1: a beautiful friendship. And I also then was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's smart and he's great. Perfect example. You ask LEVI
Speaker 1: is a pistachio healthy, most people just want to yes
Speaker 1: or a no or yep. They're full of great healthy fats.
Speaker 1: Don't over consume them. They're quite calorie dnse just a
Speaker 1: little broken down version, right, you ask LEVI is a
Speaker 1: pistacio healthy. He will give you two a four pages
Speaker 1: all about starchios and you'll probably read it and half
Speaker 1: the words you've never heard of in your life. So
Speaker 1: he was doing this in our business to these girls
Speaker 1: that wanting to lose weight or want it to be healthy,
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, what the fuck is he just written?
Speaker 1: So I realized he had his strength and the knowledge,
Speaker 1: but I had the strength of breaking it down in
Speaker 1: a way that women could actually understand. We're a really
Speaker 1: good team because some things actually don't know or I'm
Speaker 1: not qualified dancer. He's qualified natural path and nutritionist, so
Speaker 1: he's always kind of be in the backbone of everything
Speaker 1: that I've done. But I could see my strength and
Speaker 1: see his. So I took them off the pedestal and
Speaker 1: it kind of just evened us out, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: let's work together. Yes, And from there, like I just
Speaker 1: felt like our business grew, our relationship grew. Everything felt
Speaker 1: so much better. It was a huge lesson for me
Speaker 1: to be like, why do you put these people up
Speaker 1: so high and then you push yourself so far down
Speaker 1: that your old stories. If I'm too dumb, I'm not capable,
Speaker 1: I can't do it, just like linger, Yeah, And it
Speaker 1: prevents you from growing and developing as a person or
Speaker 1: in your business, and it stops the connection.
Speaker 3: It really does.
Speaker 2: What you just said about how it made you show
Speaker 2: up is so true. Self inflicted right, we pedestal somebody else,
Speaker 2: and then it makes us show up in a really
Speaker 2: incongruent way or inauthentic way. I remember with this friend
Speaker 2: of mine, I never wanted her to see me where
Speaker 2: I was at with money because she was really like
Speaker 2: thriving in her business and stuff like that. So I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I felt shame around this, and because
Speaker 2: she was doing really well in that, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I need to be seen as this too, And so
Speaker 2: I was showing up incongruently because I never wanted her
Speaker 2: to judge me for that, even though she would have
Speaker 2: never judged me for that, but it was my own
Speaker 2: shit of like pedestaling her and then making her this
Speaker 2: superhuman and then being like oh fuck, like if this
Speaker 2: superhuman wants to spend time with me, I've got to
Speaker 2: be superhuman too, And then it put pressure on me
Speaker 2: to perform, and then it was just like, of course
Speaker 2: you're going to go separate ways when you can't connect
Speaker 2: correctly in a vulnerable way.
Speaker 1: That's so true. I remember even the time, so I
Speaker 1: went to festivals like partied a bit. Yeah, we had
Speaker 1: like I did a surprise birthday for Steve one year,
Speaker 1: and we were all partying and having a good time.
Speaker 1: But like none of us wanted to be around Levi
Speaker 1: because he was so healthy and didn't party that we
Speaker 1: excluded him. Yeah, we thought he was judging us and
Speaker 1: jawing us for as as a matter of fact, you
Speaker 1: probably don't give two shits. No, I to celebrate and
Speaker 1: have a good time, and yeah, in his own way,
Speaker 1: which is what I do now. I don't drink anymore,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't judge other people for doing it. Like
Speaker 1: I've got Chess's hens coming up and guarantee I'll be
Speaker 1: the only so there. Yeah, they're all going to have
Speaker 1: a big fun night. Yeah you do you Yes, But
Speaker 1: I look back on that night now, I'm like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: we really would have left him out and he would
Speaker 1: have then felt like so isolated. Yeah, like why are
Speaker 1: they leaving me out? Why do they want to hang
Speaker 1: with me? Why do they want to party with me?
Speaker 1: Just because they do it different to you? So it
Speaker 1: does It really prevents you from having a beautiful connection
Speaker 1: and yeah, you're not showing up authentically, and then you
Speaker 1: feel shamedful what you're doing, you know, just like owning
Speaker 1: who you are and what you want to do for
Speaker 1: your life in that moment.
Speaker 3: It's so true.
Speaker 2: Nah, this is such a cool conversation actually, like exploring
Speaker 2: both sides of what happens when you pedestal somebody, how
Speaker 2: it feels, how it might feel for that person.
Speaker 1: This is cool.
Speaker 2: It's almost like it gives even for me just listening
Speaker 2: and having this conversation with you, it's like a deeper
Speaker 2: understanding of what kind of goes on when this does happen.
Speaker 2: It's cool to bring awareness to it, to be mindful
Speaker 2: of where we are showing up like this still.
Speaker 1: Is it anyone on a pedestal now? In like right now? Actively?
Speaker 3: I mean for me for sure, I.
Speaker 2: Put you on a pedestal, but not in an unproductive way.
Speaker 2: Me too with you, Like I feel like it's more
Speaker 2: admiration inspiration. I just have so much love for you,
Speaker 2: and I really admire the way that you live your life,
Speaker 2: Like in terms of being a parent, Like when I
Speaker 2: watch you parent the kids, member even say like, oh
Speaker 2: that would be so nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love.
Speaker 2: The way that you do. It's such a gentle parent.
Speaker 2: You're an awesome business woman, You're an incredible friend, Like
Speaker 2: there are just aspects of you that I just love
Speaker 2: and adoor, but I wouldn't say that it's unproductive. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think I've been able to really humanize people now
Speaker 2: because I didn't before. You know, I've really experienced what
Speaker 2: it's like to pedestal other people and push myself down,
Speaker 2: and I just don't do that anymore for the most part.
Speaker 1: So you've also seen me at some pretty low moments.
Speaker 2: There's lots of humanist in our relationship, so true, you know,
Speaker 2: for us both, and it feels really safe, like yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Put you on a pedestal, and I think you're more qualified, capable,
Speaker 1: and smarter than me. And I openly say that all
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, You're like, well, notice it when it
Speaker 1: pops up. I'm like, ah, I can't do that.
Speaker 3: You're like, yes you can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you're doing it with me, And you
Speaker 2: know what, that blows my mind because I think the
Speaker 2: same in my own way. Like for me, I'm like,
Speaker 2: you're an incredible business woman, much more than what I am,
Speaker 2: because you've had so much experience in what you've done.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you absolutely know more than what I do.
Speaker 2: And I'm just like that just is what it is.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm catching up.
Speaker 1: You know. But I'm like, you're so good at spreadsheets.
Speaker 1: I can't even look at that spreadsheet having a peck attack.
Speaker 1: She like showed me the other day all the spreadsheets
Speaker 1: for as she rises, and like she's like this green
Speaker 1: color means this, and this yellow and I'm like, yep, yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: lay over.
Speaker 3: My head, pad over. Yeah sounds good, looks like glazing over,
Speaker 3: Like shut up, like great, I'm just gonna go make
Speaker 3: us lunch. Finish off. Yes.
Speaker 2: When that was happening, I was like, oh, so nice
Speaker 2: that she's doing that. I'm so happy doing this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm like I can take care of her
Speaker 3: this way.
Speaker 2: You know, what you do really beautifully that I struggle
Speaker 2: with is storytelling. You're really really fucking good at storytelling,
Speaker 2: and I just get like lost in your stories and
Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck, I would love to be able to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: I love that. So is this how I teach? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm super smart, Like I don't think
Speaker 1: i'm super book smart, but I teach through storytelling. I
Speaker 1: teach through my own lessons.
Speaker 3: You absolutely do. You're really good at it.
Speaker 1: I think because I've always learned like that. When I
Speaker 1: did my first Tony Robins. Course, I learnt the most
Speaker 1: when he was storytelling through his experiences, or when someone
Speaker 1: would stand up and they would tell their story and
Speaker 1: then he would break down why they are who they are,
Speaker 1: why they're doing what they're doing. Yeah, where to go
Speaker 1: from here? Like, I'm very engaged in that. I would
Speaker 1: much prefer to learn from someone's storytelling. So it comes
Speaker 1: quite natural from me, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's cool to see as well because different
Speaker 2: people like learn differently as well. Like I think for me,
Speaker 2: maybe that's why I do business the way that I do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I coach the way that I do. I'm very
Speaker 2: like educational. Yeah, I feel like I lean towards that way.
Speaker 2: I don't mean too, but it just comes natural for me.
Speaker 1: And I think I'm the opposite too, because I think
Speaker 1: I've got that old story that I'm dumb, Like I'm
Speaker 1: not that educated. I failed school, didn't go to Uni.
Speaker 1: I've only done like some basic courses. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: lean on education, and.
Speaker 2: See I hide behind education because I think that my
Speaker 2: personal stories aren't valuable enough. Yeah, So I'm like with education,
Speaker 2: I'm like, well there are facts, they're a study. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm not super science based, but I'm very like
Speaker 2: education based. It just feels more natural and I feel
Speaker 2: like I hide behind that sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting, Hey, but they're both great, they're both amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why we work so well together too, because it's
Speaker 1: different bespect learning is different ways to teach and how
Speaker 1: you teach other people would really love, but then other
Speaker 1: people might not get it and vice versa, and I
Speaker 1: sorry tell them. Might be some people that are like,
Speaker 1: shut the fuck up, where's the facts? And you know
Speaker 1: when we shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2: When we bring those together, I feel like if bridges
Speaker 2: a really cool gap, it does you know, it flows
Speaker 2: so nicely to your own We're just amazing too.
Speaker 1: So yeah, point of this episode was like, who are
Speaker 1: you putting on a pedestal? Is it productive? How does
Speaker 1: it serve you? How do you think it feels on
Speaker 1: the other foot, where's the pressure? And just humanize everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah we're all doing this thing together. Yeah, we're all learning.
Speaker 1: Let's take a breath. Just accept everyone where they're at.
Speaker 1: No in trust that everyone's doing the best they can with.
Speaker 1: Yeah they have.
Speaker 2: And if you are the person who is being put
Speaker 2: on a pedestal, this is where you actually get to
Speaker 2: do some self reflection and ask yourself, where are you
Speaker 2: presenting yourself as the perfect version that like I was
Speaker 2: doing Yeah, I was doing it too, So where are
Speaker 2: you actually buying into that mold and not showing people
Speaker 2: your heart, not showing people the vulnerable moments, the things
Speaker 2: that you're going through day to day. And it's not
Speaker 2: about bonding over, it's not trauma bonding right, It's just
Speaker 2: about letting people in and that vulnerability bridges the gap
Speaker 2: and allows people to really see you for who you
Speaker 2: are and not this image that they've kind of got
Speaker 2: you stuck in. I love that amazing.
Speaker 1: We'll see you on Friday.
Speaker 2: Bye.