1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: It's Monday, July won Australian Border Force allegedly gave a 3 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: group of failed asylum seekers a speed vote and told 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: them to return to Indonesia. That story is live at 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au right now. Anthony Albanezi 6 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: has summoned rogue Senator Fatima Payment to the lodge and 7 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: kicked her out of caucus, the group of labor MPs 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: who vote on party policies. That's after she crossed the 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: floor to vote for a Greens motion recognizing Palestine as 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: a state. Does Joe Biden have Parkinson's will he stand aside? 11 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: And if so, for whom? Is Michelle Obama really a 12 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: possible savior for the Democrats? After Donald Trump wiped the 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: floor with a hesitant, confused Joe Biden in the presidential debate, 14 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: we charted the way forward with Foreign editor Greg Sheridan. 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: If you're into American politics, or frankly, even if you're not, 16 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: there's one topic of conversation you've been thinking about for 17 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: the past few days. 18 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: Hi, Claire, how are you? 19 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: What on earth is going on with Joe Biden when 20 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: we do. 21 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: When Biden and Trump passed from the stage, honestly, we. 22 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: Have nothing to talk about. I rang our foreign editor 23 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: Greg Sheridan, who's an expert at the huge spectacle of 24 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: American elections, because this election just became seriously weird with 25 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: the first and maybe the only presidential debate, this was 26 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Democrat's worst nightmare. 27 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 3: Just a day oun from mister Biden's debate performance, foks concerns. 28 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 4: About his aid, Donald Trump emerged as the winner of 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 4: the debate, where he was seeing more nimble and disciplined 30 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 4: compared to twenty twenty. 31 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: Yes, cannot be real life. It just can't. Well America. God, Well, 32 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: I was watching it with my laptop on my knees 33 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: because I was blogging throughout, and it was a joy. 34 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: There's never been a presidential debate like it. The deranged 35 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 2: versus the demented. 36 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 5: We got to take a look at what I was 37 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 5: left when I became president. Mister Trump loved me. We 38 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 5: had an economy that was in free four. The pandemic 39 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 5: was so badly. 40 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: Biden's cognitive capabilities have been in obvious decline for a 41 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: couple of years, and friends of mine who worked for him. 42 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: People in the administration always say, oh, no, Privately, he's 43 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: tough minded and he knows what he's doing. And I 44 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: believe he is still kind of compassmentous in the broad sense, 45 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 2: but just plainly not up to any kind of demanding job. 46 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 5: When I'm going to do is fix the taxis. For example, 47 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 5: we have one thousand trillionaires in America, I mean billionaires 48 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 5: in America. 49 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 2: And when he started speaking, his voice was so raspy 50 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: and thin and quiet, and you think, where is the 51 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 2: preparation here. He's allegedly had a week of preparation, and 52 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: you think the first just before he went on stage, 53 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: you think he'd have a gargle with listerine or something 54 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: and make sure his voice was clear and strong, I mean, 55 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: his voice got a bit better. 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 5: Able to about his debt. We'd be able to help 57 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 5: make sure that all those things we need to do, childcare, 58 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 5: elder care, making sure that we continue to suppent strength 59 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 5: in our healthcare system, making sure that we're able to 60 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 5: make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been 61 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 5: able to do with the with the COVID. 62 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: But the whole thing was just incomprehensible, really, And then 63 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: he had so many moments where he just couldn't gather 64 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: his thoughts and stuff bald and so forth. That was cruel. 65 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: You felt sad for him, But on the other hand, 66 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: you also felt outraged that this was what American democracy 67 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: was presenting. The administration thought this was a reasonable president 68 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: to be president. 69 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 5: With dealing with everything we have to do with What 70 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 5: if we finally beat medicare. 71 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 6: Thank you, President Biden. President Trump, Well. 72 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: He's ready. 73 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 7: He did beat Medicare, he beat it to death, and 74 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 7: he's destroying Medicare because all of these people are coming in. 75 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, he'd spent a week of prep at the presidential 76 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: retreat Camp David, being presumably coached by his advisers and 77 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: doing mock debates. Maybe that's what had made his voice horse. 78 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: But did you get the sense in the early minutes 79 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: of the debate that he seemed like somebody who had 80 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: done a lot of prep and had been coached. 81 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,799 Speaker 2: No, And that's what struck me about it. So Sarah 82 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: Palin was not an impressive Vice president cdential candidate in 83 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: the end, and didn't really have an intellectual mastery of 84 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: the issues, but she did exceptionally well in her debate 85 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: against Joe Biden, oh man. 86 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 3: And it's so obvious that I'm a Washington outsider and 87 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: someone does not used to the way you guys operate, 88 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 3: because here you. 89 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 7: Voted for the war, and now you oppose the war. 90 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: And she did that by memorizing about thirty or forty answers. 91 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 2: So you know for sure what issues are going to 92 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 2: come up, And it doesn't matter what form the question takes. 93 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 2: The question is about Iran or something. Here's your prepared 94 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: answer on Iran. Now, it just seems that Biden is 95 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: simply too old to hold even ten or fifteen formulations 96 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: in his head. 97 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 6: Out of the issue of immigration and border security, President Biden, 98 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 6: a record number of migrants have illegally crossed the southern 99 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 6: border on your watch. Why should voters trust you to 100 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 6: solve this crisis? 101 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 5: Because we worked very hard to get a bipartisan agreement 102 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 5: that not only changed all of that made sure that 103 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 5: we are in a situation where you had no circumstance 104 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 5: where they could come across the border with the. 105 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 2: Number of border the special prosecutor who looked into his 106 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: handling of documents recently, who said, look, this is an 107 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: older man with a very poor memory and I don't 108 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: think we can prosecute him because he will just be 109 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: able to say I can't remember anything that's okay. That 110 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: doesn't make him a bad person or anything. We're all 111 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: going to get there eventually, but that doesn't make it 112 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: fit to be president of the United States. 113 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 5: What I've done since I've changed the law, what's happened. 114 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 5: I've changed it in the way that now you're in 115 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 5: a situation where there are forty percent fewer people coming 116 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 5: across the border illegally. It's better when he left office, 117 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 5: and I'm going to continue to move until we get 118 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 5: the total ban on the total initiative relative to what 119 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 5: we're going to do with more border patrol and more 120 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 5: asylum officers. 121 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 6: President Trump. 122 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is seventy eight. Joe Biden is eighty one. 123 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: He'll turn in November. But they seemed as though there 124 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: was a lot more than three years between them, didn't they? 125 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 2: They sure did. So. I know a lot of folks 126 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: in their eighties who would be perfectly okay on a 127 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: debate stage. And the West has had many leaders in 128 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: their eighties Conrad Adenauer in West Germany and Winston Churchill 129 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: and so and gentlemen, I am known nearing the end 130 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: of my journey, I hope. 131 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 7: I still have some services to render. 132 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: And that was before modern science kept everyone fitting healthier 133 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: for a lot longer. Trump tells Manifold lies, but Trump 134 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: is just a liar. 135 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: Will you pledge tonight that, once all legal challenges have 136 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 3: been exhausted, that you will accept the results of this election, 137 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: regardless of who wins, and you will say right now 138 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: that political violence in any form is unacceptable. 139 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 7: Well, I shouldn't have to say that, but of course 140 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 7: I believe that it's totally unacceptable. And if you would 141 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 7: see my statements that I made on Twitter at the time, 142 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 7: and also my statement that I made in the Rose Guard, 143 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 7: you would say one of the strongest statements you've ever seen, 144 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 7: in addition to the speech I made in front of 145 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 7: I believe the largest crowd I've ever spoken to, and 146 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 7: I will tell you nobody ever talks about that. They 147 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 7: talk about a relatively small number of people that went 148 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 7: to the Capitol and in many cases were ushered in 149 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 7: by the police. 150 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 2: You know that he's in touch with reality. It just 151 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: says things that aren't true. What the problem seems with 152 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: Biden is that he just doesn't seem to be able 153 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: to distinguish reality from fantasy. So he keeps saying that 154 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: unemployment was fifteen percent when he took office, and everybody 155 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: keeps pointing out through him that that's wrong. It was 156 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: less than half that. And actually Trump's performance, by Trump's standards, 157 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: was astonishingly disciplined and very effective, and the contrast with 158 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 2: Barden was quite shocking. 159 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the Trump that we saw that night. 160 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: I thought, at any moment he might say, look, this 161 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: man's got dementia. Clearly he kind of string a sentence together, 162 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: but he didn't really go there, did he. There was 163 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: one moment where he said, President Biden doesn't really know 164 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: what he just meant. 165 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 7: By the end of that sentence, I really don't know 166 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 7: what he said at the end of that sentence. I 167 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 7: don't think he knows what he said either. 168 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: Look, but he didn't go for the throat in the 169 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: way that we might have expected him to. Do you 170 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: think Trump is trying to appeal to a different demographic? 171 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 2: Well, I thought Trump was, by his standards, simply astonishingly 172 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: self disciplined. So the rules which were designed to help 173 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 2: Biden actually helped Trump enormously. Four years ago when they debated, 174 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: every time Biden started to faulter, Trump started to shout 175 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: at him. 176 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 4: The issue is the American people should speak. You should 177 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 4: go out and vote. You're in voting, now vote and 178 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 4: let your senators know how you feel. Vote now in 179 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 4: a fact that make sure you were in fact, let 180 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 4: people know. Senator, I'm not going to answer the question again. 181 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 7: Answer that because the question the question was left. 182 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: And that meant that Trump was sort of providing a 183 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: blanket of protection for Biden. His mangled sentences were never 184 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 2: exposed because Trump was always interrupting him. So that not 185 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: only saved Biden, but it made Trump look really nasty 186 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: and like a playground bully. Now some of his supporters 187 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: like that, but it turns off a lot of normal people, 188 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: turns off independent voters and so on. Now, the rules 189 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: here were that if you spoke out of turn when 190 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 2: you were not supposed to be speaking, they would mute 191 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 2: your microphones. So Trump accepted that, and basically he didn't 192 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: try to talk out of turn. But not only that, 193 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 2: Like you, I expected him to be much tougher on 194 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: Biden's gaffs, but I think it was a conscious decision 195 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 2: that he would be restrained and just let Biden speak 196 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: for himself, if you know what I mean. Biden quite 197 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 2: rationally tried to go Trump a few times, said you 198 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: slept with a thorn stave, got the morals of an 199 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: alley cat and all that. 200 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 5: How many billions of dollars do you ow in civil 201 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 5: families for molesting a woman of public, for doing a 202 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 5: whole range of things, of having sex with a porn 203 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 5: star on the night while your wife was pregnant. 204 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: I mean, what are you talking about? 205 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 5: You have the morals of an alley cat. 206 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: But for once in his life, Trump didn't rise to 207 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: the debate. 208 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 7: I didn't have sex with a porn star number one, 209 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 7: number two. That was a case that was started and moved. 210 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 7: They moved a high ranking official, a DOJ, into the 211 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 7: Manhattan DA's office to start that case. 212 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: Then Trump is so much more effective when he is 213 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 2: talking about the issues and talking about Biden's record. He 214 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 2: didn't want the debate to be all about Trump. Oddly enough, 215 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 2: even though Trump is a tremendous narcissist, he wanted the 216 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: debate to be about Biden, and it was tremendously to 217 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: Biden's detriment. 218 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: Coming up after the break. So who can the Democrats get? 219 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: While I've got you, we'd love you to get more 220 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: of this journalism by subscribing to The Australian at the 221 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au. We'll be back after the break. 222 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, the Democrats are starting to panic. But they're 223 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: in a confusing situation now Greek because Biden has got 224 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: the majority of votes at the primaries, the contests where 225 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: registered Democrats choose which candidate they want. How could Joe 226 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: Biden be replaced if the Democrats do want that? Is 227 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: this going to be a matter for Joe Biden himself. 228 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: It has to be a matter for Joe Biden himself. 229 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 2: There isn't provision in the constitution that if the cabinet 230 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: decides the president is infirm, they can replace him. There's 231 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: no chance of that happening. But of course Pidon I 232 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: think is a very mixed grill. I think he's been 233 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: a pretty poor president. But one quality that he has 234 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: in abundance superabundance his stubbornness and orneriness. And he has 235 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: that almost insane self belief which any leader has. He'd 236 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: never won a presidential primary. He was always also ran 237 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 2: and so on and then circumstances just worked for him 238 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: perfectly when the Democratic Party needed a mainstream person to 239 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 2: run against Trump. And it's going to be hard to 240 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: convince Biden that his position is untenable. So I think 241 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: a lot of senior Democrats are trying to persuade him 242 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: to stand aside. But unless they persuade him, he is 243 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 2: the nominee. I think one reason he chose Amala Harris 244 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: as his vice president and then has kept her in 245 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 2: the shadows all through her term is that he never 246 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: wanted the vice president to be seen to be an 247 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 2: alternative to him. There's a very long tradition of that 248 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: in all presidential politics. Richard Nixon chose first Spireau Agnew, 249 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: then Gerald Ford because he thought they were both such 250 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: mediocre underheads that nobody would ever want them to be president. 251 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: Eisenhower chose Nixon on the same basis. Really, Franklin Roosevelt's 252 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: vice presidents until he got to Harry Truman were absolute shockers. 253 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: Leaders generally systematically get rid of alternatives, and then there's 254 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: a terrible moment of truth when the leader has to 255 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: go that you don't have any alternatives. 256 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: One of the alternatives on paper at least is Krmla Harris. 257 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: She's the vice president. She's a former lawyer, district attorney, 258 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: then she was a senator. She on the surface, greg 259 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: has appealed to demographics that the Democrats need, for example, 260 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: people of color in the United States. She has Indian 261 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: and an African American heritage. Why is she not the 262 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: dream candidate who the Democrats are now turning towards with hope. 263 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: You can't really pick a politician on the basis of 264 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 2: ticking identity politics boxes. So when Bill Clinton was president, 265 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: he was terrified that Colin Powell was going to run 266 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: against him for the Republican because Powell was just a 267 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: magnificent public figure whom everyone in the United States loved. 268 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: He was also African American. Kamala Harris Joe Biden picked 269 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: her because she was a minority box ticker. But the 270 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: problem is Kamala Harris has shown those signs of being 271 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: a very effective politician. She came absolutely nowhere in the 272 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: Democratic primaries. She might, in theory appeal to African Americans, 273 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: but they didn't vote for her. I think very cruelly 274 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: Joe Biden gave her the assignment of solving the problem 275 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: on the southern border, and that's been an absolute catastrophe. 276 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: So she dabbled in that for a while and then 277 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: ran away from it. She has a lot of difficulty 278 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: managing people. There's been just repeated shocking staff turnover in 279 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: her office, and her poll numbers aren't terrible, and this 280 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: is one of the problems. If they could persuade him 281 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: to stand aside, would they then have a contest in 282 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 2: which they could pitch one of their good governors or 283 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: would it automatically fall to Kamala Harris. Imagine if Gavin 284 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: Newsom from California and Gretchen Whitmer from Michigan were suddenly 285 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: in a truncated kind of primary contest or convention contest 286 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: with Kamala Harris. The Democrats then would project disunity and 287 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: chaos and in a sense without being two censorious. This 288 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: is where Joe Biden's I think you've got to say 289 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: selfishness has left the Democrats because it's very hard to 290 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: get an elegant dismount now. Whereas if he'd said a 291 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: year ago, I had one job, which was to stop Trump. 292 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: I've done that now. Now I'm handing avident to a 293 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: new generation of Democrat leaders, and I've got one for 294 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: vice president, but I'm not going to interfere in the 295 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: primary process. We've got fabulous Democrats. Blah blah blah. You. 296 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: I mean, that's what Ronald Reagan did at the end 297 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: of his second term, and his successor, George Herbert Walker 298 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: Bush one a very convincing election as a result. But 299 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: Biden is now, whatever happens, it's just going to be 300 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: very messy. 301 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: It seems there is a dark horse in this race, 302 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: which is Michelle Obama, whose name is being mentioned, including 303 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: by some senators. Is she a real prospect to consider 304 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: herself a candidate for the Democratic nomination if all those 305 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: things do happen, greg Or is that a complete red herring? 306 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: No, I think she is a very real prospect. She's 307 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 2: a very real prospect, and she could very well win, 308 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: and if she won, that's democracy. Now, I think her 309 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: candidacy would be regressive because her qualification is that she 310 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: was the spouse of a president and has a tremendous 311 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: celebrity identity. Now, let me hasten to say, the absolute 312 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: prime progenitor of this is Donald Trump. So Donald Trump 313 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: went from reality TV to politics and in a sense, 314 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: he was a genius. I'm no big fan of Trump's 315 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: by any means. Now, Michelle Obama, really in terms of 316 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: public policy, has a thinner resume than Barack Obama had 317 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 2: when he ran. But she's a very convincing media performer. 318 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 2: It'd be hard for Trump to beat up on her 319 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: without looking like a horrible bully. So she could certainly 320 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: unite all the factions of the Democratic Party. No one 321 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: would be wanting to be beating up on Michelle Obama, 322 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: So I think she is quite seriously in the mix. 323 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: Lucky for you agree, you're not the White House chief 324 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: of staff, but if you were, what would you be 325 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: telling Joe Biden to do. 326 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 2: Joe Biden has to stand down. There's still quite a 327 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: few months before the election. If he had an address 328 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 2: to the name next week in which he said, I've 329 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 2: given my whole life to this nation. I love this nation. 330 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: I serve the nation. The nation doesn't serve me. It's 331 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: clear to me now that I'm not in the best 332 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: position to contest the election against Trump. You'll still get 333 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: a lot of criticism for not having done it beforehand, 334 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 2: but there will be a wave of characteristic American sentimentality. 335 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 2: I mean a lot of things in Joe Biden's past 336 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: you wouldn't really like when he was plagiarizing British politicians, 337 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 2: or when he was a friend of the ku Klux Klan, 338 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 2: and when he was opposing bussing and all the rest 339 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 2: of it. When he was tremendously anti abortion. Now he's 340 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: tremendously pro abortion. But none of that will matter. But 341 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 2: probably he would then want to coronate someone if he could, 342 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: and that would be very tricky. All of that, complex 343 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: and difficult as it is, will be much easier than 344 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: continuing to run. Having said all of that, having said 345 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 2: all of that, is still possibly could win the election. 346 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: I wonder whether this might not mean that the judge 347 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: decides to put Trump in jail, because if Trump is 348 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 2: likely to win the election, that makes him a much 349 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: bigger threat to democracy in the view of the Democrats 350 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: then he was two weeks ago. You know, Peter Jennings 351 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: one set of Trump, the world needed Captain America and 352 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 2: instead we got the incredible hult. Think about the incredible 353 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: hold is you can't blow him up, You keep raining 354 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: down weapons on top of him, and he's still theirs. 355 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: This could move into intense warfare, Biden could be persuaded 356 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 2: to stand aside. As a kid, I used to watch 357 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: World Championship Wrestling and the commentator used to say, this 358 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 2: is World Championship Wrestling, where anything can happen and probably will. 359 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 2: That's American politics at the moment. 360 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: Greg Sheridan is The Australian's Foreign editor. Relatives of missing 361 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,719 Speaker 1: woman Bromwyn Winfield believe her body is in Lake Ainsworth 362 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: on the New South Wales Far North coast. That's the 363 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: revelation in a new episode of our cold case investigative podcast, Bromway, 364 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: available now to The Australian's subscribers at Bromwyn podcast dot com.