1 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:08,459 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,910 --> 00:00:12,119 Sean Aylmer: There's just under five months until the US Presidential Election, 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,569 Sean Aylmer: and there's plenty of anticipation about what the outcome will 4 00:00:15,570 --> 00:00:18,630 Sean Aylmer: mean for markets and the broader US economy. But there are a 5 00:00:18,660 --> 00:00:21,989 Sean Aylmer: few unusual things about this particular election. For one, it's 6 00:00:21,989 --> 00:00:25,800 Sean Aylmer: the first rematch between candidates in almost 70 years. The 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,400 Sean Aylmer: last one was in 1956. For another, Joe Biden and 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,819 Sean Aylmer: Donald Trump are the two oldest presidential candidates in American 9 00:00:32,820 --> 00:00:35,729 Sean Aylmer: history. And according to recent polls, a large portion of 10 00:00:35,729 --> 00:00:39,418 Sean Aylmer: US voters have an unfavorable opinion of both candidates, making 11 00:00:39,420 --> 00:00:42,540 Sean Aylmer: for a very unusual campaign. So what will it all 12 00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:46,979 Sean Aylmer: mean for markets? Dr. Kevin Hebner is Global Investment Strategist 13 00:00:46,979 --> 00:00:50,370 Sean Aylmer: at Epoch Investment Partners. He joins me from New York. 14 00:00:50,370 --> 00:00:51,869 Sean Aylmer: Kevin, welcome back to Fear & Greed. 15 00:00:52,379 --> 00:00:52,918 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Hey Sean. 16 00:00:53,519 --> 00:00:57,330 Sean Aylmer: Because this is a rematch, both candidates are known quantities 17 00:00:57,390 --> 00:01:00,510 Sean Aylmer: in a way. Does this give a certain amount of 18 00:01:00,510 --> 00:01:04,770 Sean Aylmer: certainty around economic agendas of the Republicans and the Democrats? 19 00:01:05,429 --> 00:01:09,089 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Certainly they're both very well known. Biden's been a feature 20 00:01:09,089 --> 00:01:12,809 Dr. Kevin Hebner : of US politics forever, and I'm based in New York, 21 00:01:12,809 --> 00:01:17,010 Dr. Kevin Hebner : and Trump is very well known to New Yorkers really 22 00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:20,249 Dr. Kevin Hebner : since the 70s. And maybe we're saying that because when 23 00:01:20,250 --> 00:01:24,240 Dr. Kevin Hebner : you look at polls and betting sites, they overall do 24 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,039 Dr. Kevin Hebner : favor Trump. But there's been very little change in either 25 00:01:29,039 --> 00:01:32,459 Dr. Kevin Hebner : those two things over the last six months. We have 26 00:01:32,459 --> 00:01:34,590 Dr. Kevin Hebner : a lot going on. We have the first debate at the end of the 27 00:01:34,590 --> 00:01:38,039 Dr. Kevin Hebner : next month, then we have the party conventions, July, August, 28 00:01:38,039 --> 00:01:40,979 Dr. Kevin Hebner : then another debate. So things can change. But at least 29 00:01:40,980 --> 00:01:44,340 Dr. Kevin Hebner : for the last six months, there's been precious little change 30 00:01:44,340 --> 00:01:48,839 Dr. Kevin Hebner : in both the overall national polls and the betting site predictions. 31 00:01:49,619 --> 00:01:54,330 Sean Aylmer: Now I've been reading what you've been writing Kevin, and something I found 32 00:01:54,330 --> 00:01:57,660 Sean Aylmer: quite interesting was in terms of economic policy for Donald 33 00:01:57,660 --> 00:02:01,200 Sean Aylmer: Trump. And we as an outsider, we're looking in and 34 00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:05,219 Sean Aylmer: we see Donald Trump and we wonder, wow, bit Wild 35 00:02:05,219 --> 00:02:08,790 Sean Aylmer: West at times. But the economic advisors, some of the 36 00:02:08,790 --> 00:02:11,580 Sean Aylmer: key people that he appointed have actually done a pretty 37 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:14,579 Sean Aylmer: good job and what might've been seen as slightly radical 38 00:02:14,580 --> 00:02:17,070 Sean Aylmer: at one point, seems to be a par for the 39 00:02:17,070 --> 00:02:17,880 Sean Aylmer: course nowadays. 40 00:02:18,330 --> 00:02:22,590 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Yeah, the three key economic appointments by Trump, one would 41 00:02:22,590 --> 00:02:27,150 Dr. Kevin Hebner : be Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury Secretary. He was very well 42 00:02:27,150 --> 00:02:31,410 Dr. Kevin Hebner : thought of. Second, he did appoint Jay Powell to the 43 00:02:31,410 --> 00:02:35,280 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Fed and Jay Powell is getting top marks. And then 44 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:41,008 Dr. Kevin Hebner : thirdly, his trade rep, Robert Lighthizer, extremely knowledgeable, experienced person. 45 00:02:41,219 --> 00:02:45,210 Dr. Kevin Hebner : He was deputy trade rep under Reagan, and he's got 46 00:02:45,210 --> 00:02:48,240 Dr. Kevin Hebner : a good chance to be in Trump's cabinet if Trump 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:53,879 Dr. Kevin Hebner : wins in November as well. So there's some other appointments 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,139 Dr. Kevin Hebner : that one can debate. The Commerce Secretary tended to fall 49 00:02:58,139 --> 00:03:00,480 Dr. Kevin Hebner : asleep in meetings, but he really didn't do much harm. 50 00:03:01,740 --> 00:03:03,030 Dr. Kevin Hebner : But overall- 51 00:03:03,870 --> 00:03:05,430 Sean Aylmer: You can't when you're asleep, Kevin. 52 00:03:06,780 --> 00:03:10,049 Dr. Kevin Hebner : In spite of the rhetoric, at least in the economic 53 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:14,820 Dr. Kevin Hebner : sense, Trump's appointments, and I think to some extent personnel 54 00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:17,580 Dr. Kevin Hebner : and his policy are pretty conventional. 55 00:03:17,610 --> 00:03:21,750 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let's talk about some of these specifics. China 56 00:03:21,750 --> 00:03:25,950 Sean Aylmer: and protectionism, certainly Trump ramped up tariffs, but it's not 57 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:28,440 Sean Aylmer: like Joe Biden has dropped them. 58 00:03:29,130 --> 00:03:32,639 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Yeah. And this is now a bipartisan issue and there 59 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,459 Dr. Kevin Hebner : really isn't any distance between the two parties on it. 60 00:03:35,940 --> 00:03:40,050 Dr. Kevin Hebner : In 2016 when Trump started talking about tariffs against China 61 00:03:40,410 --> 00:03:44,340 Dr. Kevin Hebner : and pretty strong views, it seemed pretty shocking. But that 62 00:03:44,340 --> 00:03:48,720 Dr. Kevin Hebner : is now the conventional wisdom and his trade rep from 63 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,129 Dr. Kevin Hebner : his first term, Robert Lighthizer, he's taking things a step 64 00:03:53,129 --> 00:03:57,660 Dr. Kevin Hebner : further. There's talk about a 10% universal tariff. There's talk 65 00:03:57,660 --> 00:04:01,710 Dr. Kevin Hebner : about possibly a 60% tariff on goods coming from China. 66 00:04:01,950 --> 00:04:07,349 Dr. Kevin Hebner : There's talks about demanding balanced trade on all countries. But 67 00:04:07,349 --> 00:04:10,319 Dr. Kevin Hebner : I think trade policy is going to be at the 68 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,559 Dr. Kevin Hebner : forefront, and I think we should expect this to be 69 00:04:13,559 --> 00:04:19,140 Dr. Kevin Hebner : ratcheted up further, particularly when it comes to China, but also other 70 00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:23,759 Dr. Kevin Hebner : countries that Trump and Lighthizer feel are unfair in terms 71 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:26,969 Dr. Kevin Hebner : of their trade policies with the United States. Australia does 72 00:04:26,969 --> 00:04:30,029 Dr. Kevin Hebner : not fall in that group. Australia actually has a ... Well, 73 00:04:30,299 --> 00:04:32,760 Dr. Kevin Hebner : they only trade a little amount with the United States, 74 00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:35,820 Dr. Kevin Hebner : but Australia actually has a trade deficit with the US 75 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:39,539 Dr. Kevin Hebner : so Australia won't be in the bullseye at all when 76 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:40,950 Dr. Kevin Hebner : these policies are discussed. 77 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:43,319 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Kevin, we'll be back in a minute. 78 00:04:50,309 --> 00:04:53,670 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Dr. Kevin Hebner, Global Investment 79 00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:58,980 Sean Aylmer: Strategist at Epoch Investment Partners. What about the Inflation Reduction 80 00:04:58,980 --> 00:05:04,650 Sean Aylmer: Act? Because certainly some of Australia's commodity companies have benefited 81 00:05:04,830 --> 00:05:08,188 Sean Aylmer: from help from the Inflation Reduction Act. That's a huge 82 00:05:08,189 --> 00:05:11,520 Sean Aylmer: spending package which Joe Biden introduced, which whilst it's called 83 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,940 Sean Aylmer: an inflation reduction act, really is about encouraging the shift 84 00:05:15,270 --> 00:05:19,799 Sean Aylmer: to green. Where's Donald Trump sit on that? And potentially 85 00:05:19,799 --> 00:05:21,420 Sean Aylmer: that could hurt some Australian companies. 86 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:25,500 Dr. Kevin Hebner : So the IRA, it is (inaudible) , it's really the 87 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:30,750 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Green Energy Act. And so 65% of the money being 88 00:05:30,750 --> 00:05:35,730 Dr. Kevin Hebner : spent through this act are going to red districts. So 89 00:05:35,730 --> 00:05:38,459 Dr. Kevin Hebner : it may be you won't get Republicans coming out and 90 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:42,389 Dr. Kevin Hebner : supporting the IRA. I think it's quite unlikely that they're 91 00:05:42,389 --> 00:05:45,810 Dr. Kevin Hebner : going to want to dismantle it in the same sense 92 00:05:45,810 --> 00:05:51,690 Dr. Kevin Hebner : that privately they might criticize Obamacare, the health legislation introduced 93 00:05:51,690 --> 00:05:55,020 Dr. Kevin Hebner : by President Obama, but they don't talk about it anymore. 94 00:05:55,020 --> 00:05:58,320 Dr. Kevin Hebner : That's part of the feature. And also similar with Biden, 95 00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:02,010 Dr. Kevin Hebner : during Biden's term, you've seen the United States become an 96 00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:06,450 Dr. Kevin Hebner : energy superpower, the number one global producer of both oil 97 00:06:06,450 --> 00:06:10,380 Dr. Kevin Hebner : and natural gas, but Biden doesn't talk about it. So 98 00:06:10,380 --> 00:06:12,630 Dr. Kevin Hebner : I think with the IRA, I don't think it's going 99 00:06:12,630 --> 00:06:17,279 Dr. Kevin Hebner : to be dismantled. Maybe they will talk about not liking 100 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,690 Dr. Kevin Hebner : it. But similar to Obamacare, the main beneficiaries are red 101 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:25,589 Dr. Kevin Hebner : voters, red districts. And my guess is we don't see 102 00:06:25,589 --> 00:06:28,770 Dr. Kevin Hebner : a whole lot happening in terms of green energy. In 103 00:06:28,770 --> 00:06:33,479 Dr. Kevin Hebner : terms of fossil fuels, Trump is promising to have further 104 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,650 Dr. Kevin Hebner : steps in terms of deregulation to help ramp up the 105 00:06:37,650 --> 00:06:41,520 Dr. Kevin Hebner : production of oil and natural gas even further, to ease 106 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:47,580 Dr. Kevin Hebner : permits for drilling onshore and offshore pipelines and so forth. 107 00:06:48,059 --> 00:06:51,660 Dr. Kevin Hebner : So energy is very important to Trump, but I don't 108 00:06:51,660 --> 00:06:55,080 Dr. Kevin Hebner : think they're going to do much to roll back the 109 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,460 Dr. Kevin Hebner : green energy policies. 110 00:06:57,330 --> 00:06:59,669 Sean Aylmer: Does Donald Trump believe in climate change? Has he said 111 00:06:59,670 --> 00:07:00,238 Sean Aylmer: much on that? 112 00:07:01,110 --> 00:07:05,309 Dr. Kevin Hebner : I think in general, the position of many people in 113 00:07:05,309 --> 00:07:09,570 Dr. Kevin Hebner : the red states is it's not a primary concern and 114 00:07:09,570 --> 00:07:14,790 Dr. Kevin Hebner : they're much more focused on issues related ... Well certainly economic issues. 115 00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:18,000 Dr. Kevin Hebner : And that's one reason why they're doing relatively well in 116 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,220 Dr. Kevin Hebner : the polls. But issues like trade, particularly China, national security, 117 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:26,609 Dr. Kevin Hebner : immigration, these things. So I don't know if they're going 118 00:07:26,610 --> 00:07:28,739 Dr. Kevin Hebner : to come out one way or another and say whether 119 00:07:28,740 --> 00:07:32,160 Dr. Kevin Hebner : they think climate change is a thing and whether it's induced 120 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,600 Dr. Kevin Hebner : by human activity, but it's certainly not anywhere near the 121 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,210 Dr. Kevin Hebner : top of their legislative priorities. 122 00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:42,870 Sean Aylmer: Any chance the US will have a lower deficit under 123 00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:44,730 Sean Aylmer: either Biden or Trump? 124 00:07:45,210 --> 00:07:47,969 Dr. Kevin Hebner : It doesn't look like that way at all. Both of 125 00:07:47,969 --> 00:07:51,780 Dr. Kevin Hebner : them have policies that would increase the deficit under Trump. 126 00:07:52,050 --> 00:07:55,710 Dr. Kevin Hebner : It'd be extending the 2017 tax cuts and maybe actually 127 00:07:55,860 --> 00:07:59,729 Dr. Kevin Hebner : reducing some taxes. He'd like to reduce further the corporate 128 00:07:59,730 --> 00:08:03,540 Dr. Kevin Hebner : tax rates. And earlier this week, Trump was giving a 129 00:08:03,540 --> 00:08:07,439 Dr. Kevin Hebner : speech in Las Vegas in which he promised to eliminate 130 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,920 Dr. Kevin Hebner : the tax on tips. Tips aren't a big deal in 131 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,890 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Australia but they're a very big deal here, especially in places 132 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:16,620 Dr. Kevin Hebner : like Las Vegas. So I think you're going to have 133 00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:21,480 Dr. Kevin Hebner : fiscal expansion under Trump. You'll love fiscal expansion under Biden. 134 00:08:22,109 --> 00:08:25,019 Dr. Kevin Hebner : It'd be very different under Biden. It'd be child tax 135 00:08:25,020 --> 00:08:29,010 Dr. Kevin Hebner : credits and things like this, but they're both fiscal expansionists, 136 00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:35,459 Dr. Kevin Hebner : which raises the worry about inflation remaining high, maybe not 137 00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:39,539 Dr. Kevin Hebner : above 3%, but certainly above 2%, particularly when the economy 138 00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:42,238 Dr. Kevin Hebner : is pretty close to full capacity already. 139 00:08:42,779 --> 00:08:45,059 Sean Aylmer: And the flow on from that is that interest rates 140 00:08:45,059 --> 00:08:48,240 Sean Aylmer: then will probably have to do the heavy lifting and 141 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,980 Sean Aylmer: remain higher than they would be otherwise. 142 00:08:50,309 --> 00:08:53,309 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Yeah, so I think it's reasonable to expect higher fiscal 143 00:08:53,309 --> 00:08:58,349 Dr. Kevin Hebner : deficits, higher inflation and higher nominal interest rates, certainly much 144 00:08:58,350 --> 00:09:01,230 Dr. Kevin Hebner : higher than we've seen over the previous two decades. 145 00:09:01,710 --> 00:09:04,679 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let's bring this back to investors and what 146 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,910 Sean Aylmer: it means for people. If I'm thinking about the S&P 500, 147 00:09:08,910 --> 00:09:12,869 Sean Aylmer: if I'm thinking about investing in Wall Street, which president 148 00:09:12,870 --> 00:09:17,400 Sean Aylmer: or potential president will be better for Wall Street if 149 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,508 Sean Aylmer: that's actually such a thing? 150 00:09:19,319 --> 00:09:23,880 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Well, thinking about Trump, so two of his policies, deregulation, which 151 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,990 Dr. Kevin Hebner : would in particular affect the finance sector, energy and also 152 00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:33,389 Dr. Kevin Hebner : tech, tech through de- emphasizing antitrust. Those sectors we think 153 00:09:33,389 --> 00:09:35,850 Dr. Kevin Hebner : would do well in the initial months of a Trump 154 00:09:35,850 --> 00:09:39,990 Dr. Kevin Hebner : administration. Overall, the market did quite well in the first 155 00:09:39,990 --> 00:09:43,110 Dr. Kevin Hebner : year of Trump's ... When he won in November of 2016, 156 00:09:43,410 --> 00:09:47,099 Dr. Kevin Hebner : the market was up about 20% in the following year led 157 00:09:47,099 --> 00:09:50,819 Dr. Kevin Hebner : by tech and finance. And I think it's reasonable to 158 00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:55,470 Dr. Kevin Hebner : assume something similar would happen this time. Biden is more 159 00:09:55,470 --> 00:10:00,420 Dr. Kevin Hebner : a continuation of his existing policies, and it's been very 160 00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:04,440 Dr. Kevin Hebner : much a tech driven market. For example, year to date, 161 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,240 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Nvidia alone has driven 34% of the S& P gains. But 162 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,978 Dr. Kevin Hebner : with Trump, I think driven by fiscal expansion, tax cuts, 163 00:10:13,980 --> 00:10:18,390 Dr. Kevin Hebner : deregulation, one would expect the overall market to do well, 164 00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:20,730 Dr. Kevin Hebner : but particular tech, finance and energy. 165 00:10:21,090 --> 00:10:22,020 Sean Aylmer: And the US dollar? 166 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:26,429 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Well, Trump talks a lot about wanting a weaker dollar, 167 00:10:26,429 --> 00:10:30,630 Dr. Kevin Hebner : and he sees that's part of the trade rebalancing process. 168 00:10:30,929 --> 00:10:34,350 Dr. Kevin Hebner : But when you actually talk to his economic advisors, either 169 00:10:34,350 --> 00:10:37,380 Dr. Kevin Hebner : from the first term or potential people this time, none 170 00:10:37,380 --> 00:10:41,519 Dr. Kevin Hebner : of them support a weaker dollar. That would include Robert 171 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,520 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Lighthizer, and he's been quite explicit about that. And there's a 172 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,760 Dr. Kevin Hebner : lot right now in terms of tailwinds for the US 173 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:52,050 Dr. Kevin Hebner : dollar, certainly relative to the euro or the pound. I think 174 00:10:52,050 --> 00:10:55,199 Dr. Kevin Hebner : the yen is a more complicated case. So Trump would 175 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,860 Dr. Kevin Hebner : like a weaker dollar. It's not clear his economic policy 176 00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:02,639 Dr. Kevin Hebner : advisors would like that, and it's not clear fundamentals are 177 00:11:02,639 --> 00:11:04,020 Dr. Kevin Hebner : moving in that direction at all. 178 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,478 Sean Aylmer: Are you looking forward to the next five or six 179 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:07,080 Sean Aylmer: months, Kevin? 180 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,710 Dr. Kevin Hebner : It's strange here. I'm Canadian and in Canada, I think 181 00:11:13,710 --> 00:11:17,939 Dr. Kevin Hebner : similar to Australia, the election campaigns at the federal level 182 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,569 Dr. Kevin Hebner : last five to six weeks, and they're very short. Here, 183 00:11:21,570 --> 00:11:25,828 Dr. Kevin Hebner : it lasts about two and a half years. It's long 184 00:11:26,250 --> 00:11:29,309 Dr. Kevin Hebner : and we do get tired. But the good thing is 185 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,770 Dr. Kevin Hebner : there are some interesting events coming up. At the end 186 00:11:31,770 --> 00:11:34,108 Dr. Kevin Hebner : of the month, we have the first debate. That's going 187 00:11:34,110 --> 00:11:37,620 Dr. Kevin Hebner : to be really interesting, the conventions by the two parties 188 00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:40,590 Dr. Kevin Hebner : in July and August, and then the second debate in 189 00:11:40,590 --> 00:11:44,130 Dr. Kevin Hebner : September. We don't yet have a VP debate on the 190 00:11:44,130 --> 00:11:49,050 Dr. Kevin Hebner : calendar, but that'll likely happen late September, early October. So 191 00:11:49,050 --> 00:11:52,679 Dr. Kevin Hebner : a lot of interesting things happening. I'm very much interested 192 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,610 Dr. Kevin Hebner : in details of policy and what that means for markets. 193 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,179 Dr. Kevin Hebner : So I'm certainly hoping that we'll be learning things over 194 00:12:00,179 --> 00:12:03,540 Dr. Kevin Hebner : the next month or two in terms of how things 195 00:12:03,540 --> 00:12:04,140 Dr. Kevin Hebner : will play out. 196 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,449 Sean Aylmer: Kevin, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 197 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:07,620 Dr. Kevin Hebner : Oh, thanks very much. 198 00:12:08,099 --> 00:12:12,090 Sean Aylmer: That's Dr. Kevin Hebner, Global Investment Strategist at Epoch Investment 199 00:12:12,090 --> 00:12:15,208 Sean Aylmer: Partners. This is the Fear & Greed Business Interview. Remember, this 200 00:12:15,210 --> 00:12:17,789 Sean Aylmer: is general information only and you should seek professional advice 201 00:12:17,789 --> 00:12:21,450 Sean Aylmer: before making investment decisions. Join us every morning for the full episode of 202 00:12:21,450 --> 00:12:24,090 Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed, daily business news for people who make their 203 00:12:24,090 --> 00:12:26,760 Sean Aylmer: own decisions. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.