Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven am. At
Speaker 1: a press conference at the White House, Donald Trump and
Speaker 1: Benjamin Etna, who unveiled a twenty point proposal they say
Speaker 1: could end the war in Gaza immediately after nearly two
Speaker 1: years of bombardment and growing international pressure. At its core,
Speaker 1: the proposal states mus must release all hostages, disarm, and
Speaker 1: have no role in Gaza's future, while Israel would not
Speaker 1: commit to a full withdrawal, keeping the right to re
Speaker 1: enter Gaza and establishing a security footprint within the Strip.
Speaker 1: The plan also includes creating a so called Board of Peace,
Speaker 1: chaired by Donald Trump himself to oversee the transition, but
Speaker 1: it leaves many questions unanswered, including how Gaza would be
Speaker 1: governed and whether Palestinian statehood is even on the cards today.
Speaker 1: Senior diplomatic correspondent for Half Post Akbasha hid Ahmed on
Speaker 1: how this plan outsources Gaza's future and gives leverage to Israel.
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, October one. So this is a big, big day,
Speaker 1: a beautiful day, potentially one of the great days ever
Speaker 1: in civilization. So Donald Trump and Benjamin ya who have
Speaker 1: just announced what they are calling a peace plan for Gaza.
Speaker 1: Can you just start by telling me what they've said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a striking plan. Essentially, Na Nyahu and Trump
Speaker 2: unveiled a proposal that said Hamas would have to within
Speaker 2: Sandy two hours, agree to a series of stats to disarm,
Speaker 2: release hostages, accept the release of falsten In prisoners in exchange,
Speaker 2: and it would have to give up on a lot
Speaker 2: of its quartermands for previous agreements.
Speaker 3: To end the war, Hamas will be disarmed, Gaza will
Speaker 3: be demilitarized, Israel will retain security responsibility, including a security
Speaker 3: perimeter for the foreseeable future. And lastly, Gaza will have
Speaker 3: a peaceful civilian administration that is rut neither by Hamas
Speaker 3: nor by the Palestinian authority.
Speaker 2: It that tracks suddle the most extreme demands that we've
Speaker 2: seen earlier in the Trump administration. So, for instance, it
Speaker 2: doesn't say that Palestinians have to move en mass out
Speaker 2: of Gaza. It says that they can choose to say
Speaker 2: there if they want to. But in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: it's a plan that's quite tilted Sillian savor as well.
Speaker 2: In the US. So, for instance, this new agreement that
Speaker 2: Trump and a Nia who have put out would say,
Speaker 2: we're not going to talk about a full Israeli withdrawal
Speaker 2: from Gaza as part of a compromise in the war.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that we're going to have a
Speaker 1: positive answer. But if not, as you know, maybe you'd
Speaker 1: have mar fall back in to do what you would
Speaker 1: have to do.
Speaker 2: It's also an agreement that Trump and Nttnil, who are
Speaker 2: both linked to immense threats, saying by going to go
Speaker 2: through with further bombardment, which is really hard for Balactinians
Speaker 2: to kind of understand just from a point of view
Speaker 2: if that's been intense bombardment.
Speaker 1: So what is in the proposal that who would actually
Speaker 1: take control of Gaza.
Speaker 2: So the idea of the control of Gaza in this
Speaker 2: kind of true speriod is an international stabilization force overseen
Speaker 2: by a board run by President Trump, but with involvement
Speaker 2: from Arab states, from Tony Blair, the architect, of course
Speaker 2: of British involvement in the Iraq War, a disastrous US
Speaker 2: foreign policy move in two thousand and three that many
Speaker 2: people in the region still think about frequently. So these
Speaker 2: kind of figures would be involved.
Speaker 1: The leaders of the Arab world and Israel and everybody
Speaker 1: involved asked me to do this, so it would be
Speaker 1: headed by a gentleman known as President Donald J.
Speaker 4: Trump of the UN.
Speaker 2: It really quite resembles the international security force that's been
Speaker 2: put in place to run the aid operation of Gaza,
Speaker 2: and that's been hugely controversial and really not quite successful.
Speaker 2: More than one hundred and seventy non governmental organizations operating
Speaker 2: in Gaza have called for the immediate end of the
Speaker 2: US and Israeli backdaid distribution scheme. And I just invite
Speaker 2: folks to consider that. You know, President Biden himself and
Speaker 2: many US officials have said repeatedly that a big part
Speaker 2: of why October seven itself happened is because of this
Speaker 2: kind of rush to treat Israel Palestigne as an issue
Speaker 2: without a Palestinian voice, as an issue that the Arab power,
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, Israel, the US could just deal with.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So, there is a lot in this proposal that might
Speaker 1: make it difficult for not just Hamas, but for Palestinians
Speaker 1: in general to accept, particularly Donald Trump's role in having
Speaker 1: direct oversight. So how do you think that will land?
Speaker 4: Look?
Speaker 2: The pedestal people are not unaware of Donald Trump's past
Speaker 2: record and statements around their rights stas determination.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: This is someone who in his first presidency gave Israel
Speaker 2: huge amounts of power, access, recognition and never gotten before.
Speaker 2: So there's not a lot of trust thet right if
Speaker 2: you have Donald Trump at the at the head. And
Speaker 2: of course in this presidency he's talked about a riviera
Speaker 2: in Gaza, the Gaza Strip as a sort of seafront
Speaker 2: water development, which is a chilling way ruby to really
Speaker 2: talk about a war zone and probably the most devastated
Speaker 2: war zone of the twenty first century.
Speaker 4: Be cute.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a wise guy, but the
Speaker 1: riviera of the Middle East, this could be something that
Speaker 1: could be so bad, This could be so magnificent.
Speaker 2: That said, there's a real kind of reliance on Arab
Speaker 2: states and Arab powers to be the key forces here
Speaker 2: to united our memirates. And they have the money, don't
Speaker 2: necessarily have the manpower, I think that's the real question, right,
Speaker 2: And will they necessarily put their own forces in there?
Speaker 2: Or when they're talking about Palatinians security forces, who will
Speaker 2: they hire? Will they be welcomed by the local population.
Speaker 2: These are all kind of really really tough questions, especially
Speaker 2: when You're talking about a population of two point two
Speaker 2: million people who have felt so beleeded and so abandoned
Speaker 2: by the world. So the plan talks about Hamas Hammas
Speaker 2: leaders and fighters disarming and committing to having no future
Speaker 2: role in the governments of Gaza. It talks about Israel's
Speaker 2: freedom of action and this idea that Israel will forever
Speaker 2: be able to go in and out whenever it wants
Speaker 2: to have a military operation. But it gives really the
Speaker 2: tiniest lip service towards any future for the Palestinians in
Speaker 2: terms of their own self determination. And that's the real
Speaker 2: sticking point at the Hawks.
Speaker 1: Review, coming up the threats underpinning.
Speaker 3: The plan, I think we should understand that we're giving
Speaker 3: everybody a chance to have this done peacefully, something that
Speaker 3: will achieve all our war objectives without any further bloodshed.
Speaker 3: But if Hamas rejects your plan, mister President, or if
Speaker 3: they supposedly accept it and then basically do everything to
Speaker 3: counter it, then Israel will finish the job by itself.
Speaker 3: This can be done the easy way, or it can
Speaker 3: be done the hard way.
Speaker 1: Will be done Akba Trump and Ntya who have said
Speaker 1: that if Hamas does not sign on to this plan,
Speaker 1: then the bombardment will continue. So what kind of pace
Speaker 1: plan is it under those conditions.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I think talking to people in the
Speaker 2: Trump administration, there is a real appetite and a desire
Speaker 2: to see a resolution, right, But it's weirdly constricting with this,
Speaker 2: with the sense of we can offer pressure on or
Speaker 2: question Israel in any way.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So you haven't seen the Trump administration, any officials or
Speaker 2: President Trump talked about limiting military support to Israel, And
Speaker 2: so as long as you as military funding and aid
Speaker 2: and weaponry continue to flow, I don't really see how
Speaker 2: there's a real possibility of pressure, right, which has been
Speaker 2: the kind of missing factor. Of course, Hamas has been
Speaker 2: brutal towards hostages, began the war, through its brutal up
Speaker 2: to over sudden attack. But but two years and now
Speaker 2: and the US is kind of the determining factor Latin.
Speaker 2: The Trump administration has kind of hoped that rhetoric will
Speaker 2: make them different than the Biden administration, and they're realizing
Speaker 2: now ten months in that's not enough.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk a bit about the promise
Speaker 1: for aid because that's one of the other things that
Speaker 1: is mentioned in this plan that should it go ahead,
Speaker 1: there will be full aid immediately sent to Gaza. But
Speaker 1: is that really an admission that you know aid is
Speaker 1: being withheld right now?
Speaker 2: Well, I think you've hit a nail on the head Ruby,
Speaker 2: because every time that AID is kind of put forward
Speaker 2: as a plus point or a concession in a piece seal,
Speaker 2: that's essentially saying that aid, which is a requirement for
Speaker 2: any civilian agia conventions, that's essentially saying it's been used
Speaker 2: as bargainship. People in Gaza are so desperate and the
Speaker 2: you know eight groups will tell you us, local medical
Speaker 2: workers will tell you this, there's a desire to just
Speaker 2: say whatever it takes, get supplies in.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: But what we've seen, especially from the model that the
Speaker 2: trumplementistation has implemented, which is really backing since me the
Speaker 2: glassa humanitarian foundation, we've seen thousands of Palestinians killed while
Speaker 2: trying to reach aid. We've seen that A provisions have
Speaker 2: not been the actual nutritious provision, right. It hasn't been
Speaker 2: high protein, high fiber, that kind of thing that actually
Speaker 2: helps people feel nourished. So when you're talking about a
Speaker 2: at this point, if there's not a guarantee of neutral,
Speaker 2: internationally distributed age that is fairly shared. I think even
Speaker 2: that is it's kind of a stretch to put faith in.
Speaker 1: And can we talk a little more about self determination
Speaker 1: in Palestinian statehood, because it was, you know, just a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago that Benjamin Netnyahu said that they
Speaker 1: would be no Palestinian state and he still continues to
Speaker 1: say that. He's also laying out plans to expand settlements
Speaker 1: in the West Bank. And while he was announcing this
Speaker 1: plan this week, Trump called Palestinian recognition foolish. However, the
Speaker 1: plan does mention the idea of working towards Palestinian statehoods.
Speaker 1: So I suppose, in the context of what's being said
Speaker 1: and what's being written down, is it at all credible
Speaker 1: to think that that is actually something that could come
Speaker 1: out of this plan.
Speaker 2: That's kind of trially as to this the quick long
Speaker 2: term is historically the US has of course said to
Speaker 2: say solution, we support it, moves towards it have been
Speaker 2: really tough for the US to take, and we haven't
Speaker 2: seen kind of Palastinian autotomy be implemented medium term, especially
Speaker 2: in the last kind of Tenuyeres net Nahoo. He has
Speaker 2: made denying Palestinian statehood his ultimate promise two days really right,
Speaker 2: and so this has become this of defining Mo as
Speaker 2: an Israeli politician and as we have to remember, the
Speaker 2: longest serving prime minister in Israeli history. And then just
Speaker 2: in the short term, they talk about the Palastinian Authority,
Speaker 2: which is internationally backed, eventually being able to take over
Speaker 2: if it takes certain particular reforms. What we've seen is
Speaker 2: that the Palestinian Authority a has through its own kind
Speaker 2: of sclerotic and unrepresentative leadership, not reformed, and b even
Speaker 2: to degrees to which it has changed and reformed, has
Speaker 2: not kind of met the standards that international partners of
Speaker 2: want to see. Some Palaestinians see that as as kind
Speaker 2: of a sense of it'll never be enough. You know,
Speaker 2: we can give you everything you ask for, and you
Speaker 2: really just don't want to give us any autonomy Under
Speaker 2: this plan, there's a real sense of let's just kick
Speaker 2: the sound road a little further right. And really part
Speaker 2: of the plan is is hinging on Ntniahu changing his
Speaker 2: political moo and moving towards a more moderate, less far
Speaker 2: right government, which he has not shown indication to do
Speaker 2: over the last five to ten.
Speaker 1: Years, and Israel has given him Ust seventy two hours
Speaker 1: to agree or not to this plan. So if they don't,
Speaker 1: what do you think we're likely to see happen?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we're already seeing just an unreal
Speaker 2: decimation of Gaza city. We're seeing continued US backed Israeli bombardment.
Speaker 2: It's hard to know, right, I mean, sort of when
Speaker 2: we just closed un Week one year ago. At un Week,
Speaker 2: the Israeli government assassinated Hassee Masrilla, leader of the his
Speaker 2: Biloa militia and Lebanon, which no one really expected. So
Speaker 2: otherwise I think we're just see an expansion of these
Speaker 2: really offensive that's continued, and of course it is really
Speaker 2: really controversial within Israeli society, beyond being a of course,
Speaker 2: hugely punishing for Parasitians who's left through two years of war.
Speaker 1: I'm both thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4: Hi, it's Ruby.
Speaker 1: We have a second episode of seven Am in your
Speaker 1: feed today. Doctor Rachel Coglan is an Australian palliative care
Speaker 1: doctor who spent time in hospitals and healthcare facilities in Gaza. Recently,
Speaker 1: she got a lengthy voice message from a friend and
Speaker 1: colleague there about why, after caring for people through two
Speaker 1: years of war, he reluctantly made the decision to finally
Speaker 1: flee Gaza City. It's called What's Left of Gaza's Hospitals,
Speaker 1: and it's in your feed now