WEBVTT - Albanese’s push-back against Trump

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<v Speaker 1>From Swartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>For decades, Australian governments have followed a bipartisan rule stick

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<v Speaker 1>close to the United States, but this week Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 1>Anthony Alberzi appeared to break from that tradition, rejecting pressure

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<v Speaker 1>from Washington, standing firm on defense spending in light of

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<v Speaker 1>a demand to newly double it, and was vocal in

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<v Speaker 1>his criticisms of Trump's tariffs from steel and aluminum. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a shift that signals a different approach to Australia's national security,

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<v Speaker 1>one that distances itself from America is unpredictable foreign policy

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<v Speaker 1>and increasingly fragile alliances. Today. Columnists for the Saturday Paper

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<v Speaker 1>poor Born Joorno on why Alberanze is stepping back from

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<v Speaker 1>the US are what it means for Australia's place in

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<v Speaker 1>the world. It's Friday six.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it is great to be here.

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<v Speaker 3>We've definitely Prime Minister at Tinsley Man.

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<v Speaker 1>We're in tucks regularly.

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<v Speaker 3>Just a longstanding, incredibly important partnership with our friends in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul over the work in Australia's Defense Minister Richard Miles

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<v Speaker 1>met with his US counterpart, Pete Hegsith, What do we

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<v Speaker 1>know about that meeting?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we know it was in the context of the

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<v Speaker 4>Shangrila Dialogue, which is a very high powered meeting of

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<v Speaker 4>government officials and military types held annually in Singapore.

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<v Speaker 3>Under President Trump's leadership, the United States is committed to

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<v Speaker 3>achieving peace through strength.

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<v Speaker 4>Hegsith gave a speech on the Saturday, but on the

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<v Speaker 4>Friday night he did meet with Richard Miles and put

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<v Speaker 4>it on Miles that Australia should increase its defense spending

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<v Speaker 4>as soon as possible to three point five percent of

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<v Speaker 4>our gross domestic product.

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<v Speaker 3>I urge all of our allies and partners to seize

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<v Speaker 3>this moment with us. Our defense spending must reflect the

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<v Speaker 3>dangers and threats that we face today, because the terrence

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't come on the cheap, just to ask the American taxpayer.

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<v Speaker 4>Miles and his press conference said that he was completely

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<v Speaker 4>comfortable with the sentiment that the American expressed in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of not only Australia, but everyone else in Asia and

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<v Speaker 4>in fact everyone else in the world, should increase the

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<v Speaker 4>defense spending. He didn't quibble in the broad with the

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<v Speaker 4>view of higgsth that China is becoming more and more

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<v Speaker 4>of a military threat and people better get ready for it.

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<v Speaker 2>What we have seen from China is the single biggest

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<v Speaker 2>increase in military capability and build up in a conventional

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<v Speaker 2>sense by any country since the end of the Second

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<v Speaker 2>World War.

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<v Speaker 4>Miles, in his doorstop, which made headlines back home in Australia,

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<v Speaker 4>said that he was totally up for the conversation of

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<v Speaker 4>moving to a greater spend for defense.

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<v Speaker 2>Reality is that there is no effective balance of power

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<v Speaker 2>in this region absence the United States. But we cannot

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<v Speaker 2>leave it to the United States alone.

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<v Speaker 5>Now.

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<v Speaker 4>The problem with three point five percent of gross domestic

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<v Speaker 4>product is by several estimates, that would increase our defense

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<v Speaker 4>spending to wait for it, one hundred billion dollars annually.

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<v Speaker 4>At the moment, Australia has committed to increase its spending

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<v Speaker 4>to two percent of gross domestic product, which is, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>back around eighty billion, which is not to be sneezed at.

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<v Speaker 2>Through the largest peace time increase in defense spending since

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the Second World War, Australia is investing

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<v Speaker 2>in a generational transformation of the ADF to ensure we

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<v Speaker 2>are not only in a position to deter force projection

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<v Speaker 2>against US, but also, and perhaps even more importantly, to

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<v Speaker 2>contribute to an effective regional balance where no state concludes

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<v Speaker 2>that force is a viable way to achieve strategic goals.

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<v Speaker 4>There was a feeling back in Canberra that Miles should

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<v Speaker 4>have answered in the way in which Anthony Albanzi did

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<v Speaker 4>by pointing out to the American that we have already

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<v Speaker 4>significantly upped our spending by ten billion dollars over the

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<v Speaker 4>next four years and in fact going further out thanks

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<v Speaker 4>to UCAS. We're talking about three hundred billion, a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of that which goes to the Americans. So there's no

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<v Speaker 4>doubt that Albanizi felt that there needed to be a

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<v Speaker 4>bit of pushback.

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<v Speaker 5>What you should do in defense has decide what you need,

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<v Speaker 5>your capability and then provide for it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what my.

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<v Speaker 5>Government's doing, investing in our capability and investing in our relationships.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so the Prime Minister was much stronger in his

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<v Speaker 1>response to Peter Hexas suggestion. Does that suggest that there's

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps a riff between the Defense Minister and the Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister on this particular issue.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, the Prime Minister's office claims there isn't. There's a

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<v Speaker 4>hell of a lot of difference between being up for

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<v Speaker 4>the conversation and actually agreeing to a preordained gargantuan amount

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<v Speaker 4>of money. But I think also what the Albanese government

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<v Speaker 4>is very keen to do, especially in the aftermath of

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<v Speaker 4>the election, is not to be seen in any way,

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<v Speaker 4>shape or form to be cow tewing to Trump and

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<v Speaker 4>the Trump administration, because there is no doubt that in

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<v Speaker 4>the election campaign an overwhelming majority of Australians didn't like

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<v Speaker 4>the Trump disruption and perceived that Peter Dunton was in

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<v Speaker 4>fact too close to Trump and that many of his

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<v Speaker 4>policies were shaped on Trump. So Albanezi is very determined

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<v Speaker 4>not to create any sort of impression that post election

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<v Speaker 4>is now as it were, going to toady to the Americans.

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<v Speaker 4>In fact, in a very strong statement the next day,

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<v Speaker 4>the Prime Minister pointed out, look, America doesn't determine our

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<v Speaker 4>defense policy or spending or strategy. We do that.

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<v Speaker 5>We determine our defense policy. Here where a sovereign nation

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<v Speaker 5>that need to have pride in our sovereignty and in

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<v Speaker 5>our capacity to make decisions in our national interest.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Australia in the US, for bitter or worse, have

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<v Speaker 1>been joined at the hip for a long time. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>do you get a sense that that might be changing

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<v Speaker 1>or is it mostly about perceptions about being too close

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<v Speaker 1>to Donald Trump in particular.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, look, there's no doubt things are changing. And I

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<v Speaker 4>think before going to the particulars of what you've just

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<v Speaker 4>asked me, Hugh White, the Strategic Expert, an emeritus professor

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<v Speaker 4>from the Australan National University. In his latest quarterly essay

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<v Speaker 4>he talks about our post American future and it's an

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<v Speaker 4>amazing analysis that does point out that what we're seeing

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<v Speaker 4>now is the strengthening of China as a world power

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<v Speaker 4>economically and even strategically, and the weakening of the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>But the weakening of the United States, which is purposeful

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<v Speaker 4>in terms of Trump no longer seeing the United States

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<v Speaker 4>is the garran tor of democratic freedoms around the world.

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<v Speaker 4>They're calling it the new American isolationism. So this is

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<v Speaker 4>the new reality we have to come to terms with,

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<v Speaker 4>and it is diametrically opposed to the worldview between Australia

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<v Speaker 4>and America since World War II, which led to the

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<v Speaker 4>establishment of the ANAS Treaty, a treaty between America Australia

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<v Speaker 4>and New Zealand. That presumes that if we're attacked by anybody,

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<v Speaker 4>America will come to our aid as the protector of

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<v Speaker 4>our freedoms. But that is no longer the reality. And

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<v Speaker 4>it's not only a reality that's changed thanks to Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 4>but it's one that's been changing over the last thirty years.

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<v Speaker 4>In my view, the Australian public has never quite been

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<v Speaker 4>completely as enthusiastic for being all the way with the USA, or,

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<v Speaker 4>as one of our former Prime ministers, Harold Holt famously

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<v Speaker 4>said on the lawns of the White House, all the

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<v Speaker 4>way with LBJ Lynden Bands Johnson. And this was at

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<v Speaker 4>the height of the Vietnam War. Even though Harold Holt

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<v Speaker 4>did win a landslide election in nineteen sixty six, support

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<v Speaker 4>for the Vietnam War was already waning, and within two

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<v Speaker 4>elections the Liberals lost basically because of our commitment to Vietnam.

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<v Speaker 1>Australia and the world have witnessed some of the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>anti war protests ever seen.

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<v Speaker 4>And you might also remember that when John Howard wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to send everybody off to war joining George W. Bush

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<v Speaker 4>in the invasion of Iraq, there were massive protests in

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<v Speaker 4>Sydney and Melbourne, and public opinion was against that commitment. Certainly,

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<v Speaker 4>Now what we're seeing, I think is that the politicians,

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<v Speaker 4>certainly with Anthony Albanese and Labor, are more in tune

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<v Speaker 4>with overwhelming public opinion. So trying to make just how

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<v Speaker 4>close we are to America the touchstone of legitimacy for

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<v Speaker 4>the government no longer holds any water.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break, What will happen when Trump and Albanzi

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<v Speaker 1>meet face to face? Paul? In a couple of weeks,

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<v Speaker 1>Albanese will fly to Canada for the G seventh summer,

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<v Speaker 1>making it his first opportunity to meet with Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>face to face. How do you think that meeting is

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<v Speaker 1>likely to go.

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<v Speaker 4>First of all, we're the guests of the Canadian Prime Minister.

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<v Speaker 4>We're not members of the G seven, so we're there

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<v Speaker 4>as official guests and observers. And Albanesi is already telegraphing

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<v Speaker 4>that he will politely but firmly tell the American President

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<v Speaker 4>that his doubling of tariffs on our steel and uranium

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<v Speaker 4>exports is not the act of a friend, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 4>it is self harm for the United States because all

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<v Speaker 4>it does is up the cost of everything for the

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<v Speaker 4>Americans themselves. Now, nobody thinks that even if Albanizi does

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<v Speaker 4>this in the politest of ways, that Donald Trump will

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<v Speaker 4>thank him for it. And the talk in Gamber now

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<v Speaker 4>is that Albanezy won't be going down to Washington have

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<v Speaker 4>Tate in the Oval Office. Probably just as well, because

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<v Speaker 4>if he gets the tone wrong, well, he might get

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<v Speaker 4>the same treatment that Zelene got when he was in

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<v Speaker 4>the Oval Office with Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>The UK was able to secure an exemption from Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>fifty percent tariffs and steel an aluminium. How likely is

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<v Speaker 1>it that Australia could do the same.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, that's a very good question and it'll depend, as

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<v Speaker 4>we've been saying, on how Albanezi navigates his way around

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<v Speaker 4>the good ship Trump. One of the things that's gotten

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<v Speaker 4>in the way of us being able to negotiate exemptions

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<v Speaker 4>is that our federal election got in the way, so

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<v Speaker 4>that distracted our government from being able to do as

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<v Speaker 4>much handiwork, and you go to Washington and all of

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<v Speaker 4>that as Kei, as Starmer and the Brits were able

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<v Speaker 4>to do with Trump. So in a sense there's a

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<v Speaker 4>bit of catch up to be played here. But Trump

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<v Speaker 4>Mark two has learned a lot from Trump Mark I.

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<v Speaker 4>And when we got exemptions, when Prime Minister Malcolm Turnmilled

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<v Speaker 4>won exemptions on Tariff's back, then we were one of

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<v Speaker 4>thirty other countries that got them. This time, Trump's advisors

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<v Speaker 4>and Trump himself are of a view nobody gets exemptions

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<v Speaker 4>because it sort of defeats the purpose of what we're

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<v Speaker 4>on about.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you get the sense that Albanesi and his government

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<v Speaker 1>might be looking to forge stronger tie elsewhere beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>US as a result of all this uncertainty.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's absolutely no doubt about that. As we speak,

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<v Speaker 4>our Trade Minister Don Farrell is in Europe trying to

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<v Speaker 4>resurrect the Europe Australia Free Trade Deal. Also, it's to

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<v Speaker 4>be noted that at the Shangrila Dialogue this year the

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<v Speaker 4>keynote speaker was none other than the French President Emanuel Macron.

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<v Speaker 6>The time for non alignment has undoubtedly pasts, but the

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<v Speaker 6>time for coalitions of action as com and require that

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<v Speaker 6>country is capable of acting together gives themselves every means

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<v Speaker 6>to do so. We mass show consistency where all thos

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<v Speaker 6>practice aable game.

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<v Speaker 4>Albanezi makes a big deal of letting people know that

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<v Speaker 4>he and Macron are the same page on many things.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think it's worth noting that Macron's speech pointed

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<v Speaker 4>out that the intensifying rivalry between the United States and China, well,

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<v Speaker 4>Macron's view is that this is the greatest threat to

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<v Speaker 4>global security. And he said Trump's idea of you know

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<v Speaker 4>you're either with us or against this, well, it's dangerous.

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<v Speaker 6>I will just conclude now with a plea, a call

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<v Speaker 6>for action for Europe and Asia to work together on

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<v Speaker 6>a coalition of independence, a coalition of contries that won't

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<v Speaker 6>be enrolled but won't be believed. A coalition of contries

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<v Speaker 6>that objects to the double standard. A coalition of contries

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<v Speaker 6>that will pull their strengths to write the rest of technology,

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<v Speaker 6>appold norms and protect the sovereigns.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul, always great to speak with you.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you very much. Daniel buy.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, senior Liberal leaders have rejected

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<v Speaker 1>comments from Alan Stockdale, the former Victorian treasurer appointed the

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<v Speaker 1>manager it's new South Wales division, who claimed women in

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<v Speaker 1>the party are sufficiently assertive and suggested quote as may

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<v Speaker 1>now be needed to protect men. Senior figures, including federal

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<v Speaker 1>leader Susan Lee and New South Wales liberal leader Mark

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<v Speaker 1>Speakman have condemned the remarks as add a step and

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<v Speaker 1>damaging to efforts to rebuild support among women. And Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump has announced a new travel ban affecting citizens from

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<v Speaker 1>twelve countries, mostly in Africa and the Middle East. The

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<v Speaker 1>ban revised elements of his first term immigration policy, which

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<v Speaker 1>was widely criticized as a Muslim ban. The latest travel

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<v Speaker 1>ban came on the back of an anti Semitic fire

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<v Speaker 1>bombing attack in Bolder, Colorado, in which an Egyptian man

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<v Speaker 1>who was in the US unlawfully alleg injured fifteen people.

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<v Speaker 1>While Egypt wasn't included in the list of band countries,

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<v Speaker 1>Trump cited the attack as a justification for the sweeping restrictions.

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<v Speaker 1>Seven Am was a daily show from Schwartz Media on

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<v Speaker 1>the Saturday Paper. It's made by Atticus Bastow, Shane Anderson,

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Stengate, Eric Jensen, Ruby Jones, Sarah McPhee, Travis Evans,

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Zoltenfetcho and Met Daniel James. Our theme music is by

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<v Speaker 1>Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Bordeo. That's all

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<v Speaker 1>from seven Am for this week we'll be back on Monday.

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<v Speaker 1>Have a great weekend.