1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,280
Speaker 1: I'm Boris and this is straight talk Andrew Bragg? What

2
00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:03,920
Speaker 1: wild straight talk?

3
00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:04,480
Speaker 2: Mate? Mark?

4
00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:06,960
Speaker 1: How are you so you're the shadow Assistant Minister for

5
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 1: home Ownership in this country at a federal level and

6
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,360
Speaker 1: you are the Liberal senator representing New South Wales in

7
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 1: the Federal Senate. That's right as a mouthful, but I'm

8
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 1: glad I got through the part.

9
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:17,759
Speaker 2: Sorry bout that.

10
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,120
Speaker 1: That's all right? And you live in Sydney, Yeah, yeah,

11
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,440
Speaker 1: so but I noticed on my brief that you'll come

12
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 1: out of Shepard and Victoria originally.

13
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the deal there?

14
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,640
Speaker 1: Like, what's it like living in Sydney not being able

15
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: to see your watch your AFL you have to watch

16
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:32,920
Speaker 1: on television.

17
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,519
Speaker 2: I still go for Geelong because you never trust a

18
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,360
Speaker 2: politician to changes footy teams.

19
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: You're right, Do we know any who's done who've done that?

20
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 1: Plenty plenty? Albo never has. Oh he's always been a

21
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,599
Speaker 1: house supporter. One good thing. No, that's not a good thing.

22
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,959
Speaker 1: Unfortunately he's been a house supporter. But I would say unfortunately,

23
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,200
Speaker 1: But so you love your footy still?

24
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 2: I love Geelong?

25
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have a Sydney team? You could be

26
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: a rooster mate. You could be with me and Nick

27
00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:58,480
Speaker 1: and all the other probably.

28
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 2: Would be the roosters because Pad be in a Sydney.

29
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, well then you are. You are adopted. But straight away,

30
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,479
Speaker 1: immediately you are eligible for adoption. I'm on the boards

31
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,759
Speaker 1: and you just say, look, I'd like to apply for adoption,

32
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,280
Speaker 1: and I can actually grant that sitting here right now.

33
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,959
Speaker 2: Well, I'm still going to show the greatest fidelity to Geelong,

34
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:16,480
Speaker 2: to my greatest love.

35
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 1: Yep, don't change your AFL. I'm not asking you to

36
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,959
Speaker 1: come and go for Collingwood. I can't do that. I

37
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,600
Speaker 1: know you can't do that. So how did you get

38
00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 1: into politics? By the way, just take me through it.

39
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,720
Speaker 2: Well, So the connection back to Shepardon was that Dad

40
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,400
Speaker 2: was in fruit growing and basically in the early nineties,

41
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 2: the big cannery in Sheperdon SPC. Shepardon Preserving Company was

42
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,200
Speaker 2: closed down by the unions. Dad was involved in that.

43
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,480
Speaker 2: I could see how big vested interests could damage a

44
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 2: whole town or a whole society, and so I was

45
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,440
Speaker 2: very wary of collectivism. And so that's one of the

46
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 2: reasons why I joined.

47
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 1: The Liberal Party.

48
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,480
Speaker 2: Philosophically, Yeah, philosophically, and I thought, you know, I really

49
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 2: love Australia. Dad was a migrant as well, so I

50
00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 2: was always aware of that whole you know, trajectory had

51
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 2: changed of the whole family because they'd moved to Australia

52
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,560
Speaker 2: for a better life. And so I felt some gratitude

53
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 2: towards Australia and I really wanted to make sure that

54
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,800
Speaker 2: I could make a contribution.

55
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,520
Speaker 1: Was it? Then? What oranges? Is the name Bragg? Then well,

56
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 1: it's just English, like it's English pommes I six ten

57
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:18,400
Speaker 1: pound pom wow?

58
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 2: Right, and that show on standard the nament ten pound poms. Yep,

59
00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 2: that is my family, is it for sure?

60
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 1: Is the fama still love your famasilli? Yeah?

61
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. He came out when he was five or six,

62
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 2: in you know, the late forties.

63
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember the period. I remember my friends of

64
00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 1: mine who came out in the periods of older friends

65
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: who now passed away. And actually I was just thinking

66
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,400
Speaker 1: about Shepard and she and there's a lot of fruit

67
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 1: down there, I remember.

68
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I went to some uh Sin recall.

69
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,080
Speaker 1: Going some older plantations, but I went different. I definitely

70
00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,640
Speaker 1: sent lots of oranges.

71
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 2: Pears, pears. I picked pears. That is hard work when

72
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,679
Speaker 2: you clumb up the ladder and you fill your bag

73
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 2: full of pears, take it down the ladder, open up

74
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 2: the bag, and the pairs go into the palate. That's

75
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 2: once more step for that person, but a lot more

76
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 2: steps still to go until you fill that palet and

77
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 2: you get your forty bucks.

78
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,520
Speaker 1: Now, the Prime Minister who sat here not that long ago,

79
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,560
Speaker 1: but he talked about his socially underprivileged sort of upbringing. Ye,

80
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: which is fair enough. But you seem to have come

81
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,919
Speaker 1: from a sort of more like a business he sort

82
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 1: of background. It seems like you saw hard work, you know.

83
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 1: I mean people live in sheperd Is, particularly back when

84
00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,480
Speaker 1: you know you're a younger man. They're tough periods when

85
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,800
Speaker 1: you're working, like you just said, picking pears, pick and fruit.

86
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 1: That's a pretty tough gig. It was.

87
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 2: But I mean mum was a nurse, Dad was involved

88
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 2: in fruit. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

89
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 2: I spent a year working at Big w as a

90
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 2: night department manager. Yeah good, I love retail. I really

91
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 2: wanted to do that. But then ultimately Dad said, look,

92
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 2: you'd better to go to university. I think you could

93
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,440
Speaker 2: do something else. So I went to Canberra. I went

94
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 2: to UNI.

95
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 1: He went to Canberra. I went to a and or

96
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 1: to a new Aka. So Canberra is to somebody seeing

97
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 1: the mothership. There is a bit of a university, but

98
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 1: for different types of different types learnings and what do

99
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 1: you do at UNI?

100
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,640
Speaker 2: Well, I did accounting yep, and I did international relations.

101
00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: To like a commerce degree or any disagree or something

102
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 1: like that.

103
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,120
Speaker 2: I started my career at Ernst and Young, so right,

104
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 2: I was an internal order to there, so I understood

105
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 2: how risks could be managed or not managed by different

106
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 2: companies or numbers manipulated, that's right. I think one of

107
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,599
Speaker 2: the ones I worked on with Babcock and Brown, so

108
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:21,520
Speaker 2: that was a bit of an eye ap.

109
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember those Babcock and Brown guys back

110
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,719
Speaker 1: and there were talking about that was that period was

111
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: early two thousand, that's right. Yeah. And there was another

112
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 1: one called Orco as well, Babcock and Brown and Orco.

113
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: And I know that I knew that. I still know them.

114
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:38,720
Speaker 1: One of us passed away now, but I knew the

115
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: principles behind both of those and they were like they

116
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,479
Speaker 1: were the new Macquari banks. They were going to just

117
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,039
Speaker 1: be the biggest businesses in the country, and of course

118
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,359
Speaker 1: they both got in a bit of trouble ended up

119
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 1: being up winding down. So when did you get into

120
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,839
Speaker 1: politics and why did you get in a poloices?

121
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,800
Speaker 2: I was selected in twenty nineteen yep, and I worked

122
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 2: in many financial services and I thought this is a

123
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 2: great opportunity for me to make a contribution. I ran

124
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 2: lost pre selection a few times, took a few hits,

125
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 2: but ultimately I was very keen to get there. So

126
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,160
Speaker 2: now I'm at the end of my first term and

127
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,839
Speaker 2: I'm running for reelection in twenty twenty five, and.

128
00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,600
Speaker 1: I know that you actually went Worth my area for

129
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 1: at one stage weren't ye? I live in Wentworth here,

130
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,120
Speaker 1: but did you ever apply to try to get pre

131
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:23,480
Speaker 1: selected into the Wentworth area?

132
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 2: I didnt think about that, but then I thought best

133
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 2: of it and I ended up running for the Senate

134
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen twenty NINETEENK. That was a good decision

135
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,680
Speaker 2: because ultimately the Senate committees are where you can do

136
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 2: great policy work on super fintech, mortgage lending. A lot

137
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 2: of the detailed work, the grant work, it's done in

138
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,560
Speaker 2: the Senate. If you know how to use the committees,

139
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 2: you can do really great public policy work.

140
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 1: So maybe you could explain it to me a little bit,

141
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,039
Speaker 1: a little bit deeper, because we all are quite familiar

142
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,960
Speaker 1: with our local repor might be in the Lower House,

143
00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 1: the House Representatives where bills or legislation starts, but not

144
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 1: many of us really have had a bunch of ex

145
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 1: exposure to senators what they call the upper House, where

146
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 1: what gets past the lower House has to go through

147
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,360
Speaker 1: You have to get through the upper House as well,

148
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 1: if I'm presuming using the right terms. But the upper

149
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,919
Speaker 1: House is not really controlled by the liberal labor then

150
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,080
Speaker 1: there are a lot of independence there, like like Pocock

151
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 1: for example, And there are and you know, you know,

152
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 1: first Nature one Nation of Jackie Lamby and independence and Pauline,

153
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,400
Speaker 1: et cetera. They're in the Senate. It's a fun place

154
00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: to be sometimes and it's a it's a hard place

155
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,279
Speaker 1: to control. When I say control, there's no one has

156
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: control over it, and anything can happen. Deals get done.

157
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,040
Speaker 1: It looks like to me, deals get done the left

158
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 1: front center. So we will vote with you or your

159
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 1: party on this bill on the basis that you will

160
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,240
Speaker 1: help us along on this thing we're trying to get

161
00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:57,840
Speaker 1: through is.

162
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,800
Speaker 2: That is that? Would that be about right of transactional?

163
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 2: Very transactional And a lot of the work I've done

164
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 2: in this Parliament investigating the crime to the super funds,

165
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,160
Speaker 2: looking at ask the corporate cop why it's been so

166
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,520
Speaker 2: hopeless mortgage lending rules. This was only possible because I

167
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 2: had an ability to talk to the Greens, and the

168
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 2: Greens wouldn't necessarily agree with my findings, but they would

169
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 2: agree that it was worthy of having a process. Whereas

170
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 2: the government, the Labor Party would never support anything I

171
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,760
Speaker 2: was wanting to inquire into it because they were worried

172
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 2: I might dammage one of their favorite things, like the

173
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 2: super funds or the unions. So okay, so how does

174
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 2: that start?

175
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 1: Andrew Lake? So let's say you decide, well, you think

176
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,120
Speaker 1: a good thing to be looked at virus Senate's inquiry

177
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 1: called let's let's talk about unions for argument, say well,

178
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,119
Speaker 1: super let's have a look, good, hard look at super

179
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:56,400
Speaker 1: What do you do? You walk along to the green?

180
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 2: How does it all worked?

181
00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 1: You yell on to your to the leader of your party.

182
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: How does it work? It's a great question.

183
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 2: So right now is a fund called SeaBus which is

184
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 2: chaired by Wayne Twine, who is also the president of

185
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 2: the Labor.

186
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,800
Speaker 1: Party and the ex Treasurer of the country.

187
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,040
Speaker 2: That's right, and the act the corporate cop I said

188
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,880
Speaker 2: that they haven't paid ten thousand death claims for their

189
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 2: members who die ten thousand.

190
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: It's a lot of families, right, Wow, So you should

191
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 1: just explain that and with that, because super funds have

192
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,880
Speaker 1: a default. If I've got my money with if I'm

193
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,040
Speaker 1: working on a SeaBus, so that's construction. Let's say I'm

194
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 1: working on a on a building side and whatever, I'm

195
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: a rigger and I get paid more wages by the

196
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 1: company I work for, my super goes direct to SeaBus.

197
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 1: That's right, manages my super. One of the things that

198
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: normally happens in these circumstances is that the super fund

199
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,120
Speaker 1: that I have got my money invested in through my employer,

200
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,560
Speaker 1: generally speaking, has a default disability and death or like

201
00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,040
Speaker 1: a toaller insurance in there which my contributions will pay

202
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: for me over time. And then if I something unfortunately

203
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: happens to me on the site in this example, then

204
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,200
Speaker 1: I will make the claim against my insurance, with which

205
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,360
Speaker 1: seabuses sort of like some be managing for me.

206
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:12,839
Speaker 2: That's right?

207
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 1: Is that right?

208
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,839
Speaker 2: That's right? So ten thousand times the AC the corporate

209
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 2: coppers here, they haven't paid those death claims and so

210
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 2: they've done some horrible things to some of these families,

211
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 2: including asking them to have two death certificates, right, as

212
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,720
Speaker 2: if one wasn't enough, And so what's crazy?

213
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:30,480
Speaker 1: Only do I want?

214
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 2: These people are so mean and I think they're so

215
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 2: privileged because they're so used to the money just falling in, right,

216
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 2: they open the door, the money falls in. That's how

217
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,120
Speaker 2: the super funds feel, and so they're very privileged. They

218
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,720
Speaker 2: don't care about people. And so this is an example

219
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,600
Speaker 2: where I would say to the Greens, look, this is

220
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,199
Speaker 2: really bad. Okay, a lot of people are hurting. I

221
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 2: think we should have an inquiry into this, get to

222
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 2: the bottom of it, make some recommendations.

223
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 1: So you got along too, Do you got along Shoebridge band?

224
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,200
Speaker 2: Do you go along to Nick McKim, Nick McKim, Yah Tasmania.

225
00:09:59,280 --> 00:09:59,559
Speaker 1: Ye?

226
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 2: Talk to him and usually he's able to get agreement

227
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,600
Speaker 2: on process. If I went to Labor and said, look,

228
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 2: ten thousand people have been wronged by sea Bus, then

229
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,080
Speaker 2: say we don't care. We're not going to have an

230
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:11,680
Speaker 2: inquiry to that.

231
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,240
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense because the workers are their people.

232
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the problem is that all their retired politicians

233
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,599
Speaker 2: like Wayne Swan and co. Are on the board of

234
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 2: these funds, and in the case of mister Swan, he's

235
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,440
Speaker 2: also the president of their party. Of the party, they're

236
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,240
Speaker 2: very conflicted. So they're not going to have an inquiry

237
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 2: to that, are.

238
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,720
Speaker 1: They makes sense it? Well, I guess they're not going

239
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,440
Speaker 1: to throw their own blow under the bus, that's right.

240
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 1: So you go along to mckinn and you say to him, look,

241
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,960
Speaker 1: this is what i've evidence. I've got. Let's set up

242
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:39,560
Speaker 1: an inquiry.

243
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 2: And then we put a motion into the Senate Chamber

244
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,760
Speaker 2: saying we're going to have an inquiry into the non

245
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 2: payment of death claims, the governance of the funds, conflicts

246
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 2: of interest, blah blah blah, and then the Senate will

247
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 2: say yes or no, and if the Liberals and the

248
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 2: Greens agree, then it's done. And then you've got your

249
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 2: inquiry and then they can have call for submissions. You

250
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 2: get use the hundreds of submissions from consumer groups, real people,

251
00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,439
Speaker 2: the regulators, and then you have public hearings. You get

252
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 2: people in and you asked them the tough questions. So

253
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 2: one thing we did last year was we actually called

254
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,560
Speaker 2: Wayne Swan to come into the hearing. Interesting what happened, Well,

255
00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,160
Speaker 2: firstly he said no, we're not going to come.

256
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:18,400
Speaker 1: Are they obliged?

257
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 2: Well, we got advice from the Clerk of the Senate.

258
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,560
Speaker 2: This is very dorky, and the Clerk of the Senate said,

259
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 2: well he must attend. So we summoned him legally and

260
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,200
Speaker 2: then he turned up and we asked him questions for

261
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 2: a couple of hours.

262
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,960
Speaker 1: And what's your role in this inquiry? Are you one chair?

263
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 1: You're the chair? And who else has made up? Is

264
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,199
Speaker 1: like ten people on the committee? Is soundly one of

265
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,360
Speaker 1: those things you see in these American movies where they're

266
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 1: doing an inquiry into a mafia and he got the

267
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 1: mafia boss sitting there and they got all these politicians

268
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 1: standing up there and saying could you tell us about this?

269
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,199
Speaker 1: Like the JFK sort of JK dot, those sort of inquiries.

270
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,440
Speaker 2: I think exactly what it is mark that committee system

271
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 2: that we have we style from America.

272
00:11:59,280 --> 00:11:59,439
Speaker 1: Right.

273
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 2: It's another example where Australia takes the best the world

274
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,440
Speaker 2: has to offer and makes it our own. In our

275
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:05,959
Speaker 2: own own Australian ways, so the.

276
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:06,680
Speaker 1: World's best practice.

277
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:07,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good.

278
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,559
Speaker 1: And so in that inquiry, just for example, at these

279
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,040
Speaker 1: ten thousand claims that weren't paid, processed and were paid,

280
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 1: and what did you find?

281
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 2: We found we found a page to Yeah, we did

282
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,080
Speaker 2: a report. We recommended reforms and in talking to some

283
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,920
Speaker 2: of these people, some people were about to die, some

284
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,320
Speaker 2: people had died and they were their families weren't paid.

285
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 2: Some people were strung out for years and years. So

286
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,600
Speaker 2: we found that there was a negligence and that the

287
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 2: law needed to be tighter on these funds so they

288
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,599
Speaker 2: couldn't just string these people along. So we made those recommendations.

289
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 2: We also recommended that the superfund boards have more competent

290
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,400
Speaker 2: people on them because, as you know, Mark, the fish

291
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 2: rots in the head. So you know, if you have

292
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,200
Speaker 2: a board full of gold mates in the unions who've

293
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,840
Speaker 2: got no experience or no knowledge of risk management, governance,

294
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 2: how to treat people, then you're going to have problems.

295
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,599
Speaker 2: And that's what we've got right now in super.

296
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 1: Is there in terms of these industry funds because you're

297
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 1: talking about industry funds now, yeah, is that prevalent in

298
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,000
Speaker 1: other words, is it the majority of times that the

299
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 1: super funds have got this so called old mates system

300
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: going on. In other words, they've got labor guys and

301
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 1: the union guys sort of sitting within the fund somehow

302
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 1: have been a gatekeeper or whatever you want to call

303
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 1: it in relation to what that fund does and or

304
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:27,840
Speaker 1: doesn't do.

305
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 2: It is systemic. You've got It's not as Wayne Swan's

306
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 2: Nicola ucktion. It's James Molino, who is a deputy Premier

307
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,640
Speaker 2: of Victoria. They're all on these boards and I think

308
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 2: this is causing a major problem where the funds aren't

309
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,959
Speaker 2: acting in the interests of the workers. They're often acting

310
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 2: in interests of the unions and the labor party. Do

311
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,840
Speaker 2: they get paid for these jobs? They get paid, and

312
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,320
Speaker 2: often the money goes through to the union. So in

313
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 2: the case of the SeaBus Fund, it's giving millions of

314
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 2: dollars every year to the CFMAU. And today as it stands, CFMU,

315
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 2: which is in administration, owns twenty percent of sea Bus.

316
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,840
Speaker 2: So a union in administration is allowed to own a

317
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,640
Speaker 2: major financial corporation, which is compulsory. Compulsory, I mean you

318
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,240
Speaker 2: have to have soup. I just think this is a

319
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 2: sector which needs the best governance, not the worst governance.

320
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 1: Wow. That's and does any of that money find his

321
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,000
Speaker 1: way back into the Labor Party, Of course, of course

322
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 1: it does.

323
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 2: They get millions of dollars through that channel, through the

324
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 2: director's fees and other sponsorship payments. And in fact, there

325
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 2: was a review recently which found that a lot of

326
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 2: the payments for services were services that were never actually

327
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,920
Speaker 2: given and che just a way to transfer cash through

328
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 2: in a very corrupt way. So of course it helps labor.

329
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 2: That's why Labor's defended this system forever and ever. But

330
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 2: we will point out the deficiencies because we think that

331
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 2: the people will deserve better than this.

332
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,320
Speaker 1: So and this was originally set up by Paul Keenny,

333
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 1: of course in the hidden set the industry funds, but

334
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 1: he originally set up the compulsory subminiration back in the

335
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,720
Speaker 1: early nineties. And I actually I think it was one

336
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 1: of the best a piece of legislation. I actually think

337
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 1: it's a good thing from Australia from an economics point

338
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 1: of view, that it's not on the government's perse when

339
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 1: people retiring, you have to pay support people like they

340
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,120
Speaker 1: have to do another place in the world. But as

341
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 1: these things get bigger and more delicious and more deeper, deeper,

342
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,240
Speaker 1: deep in terms of the amount of money that they've

343
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,680
Speaker 1: got into them and Australia. In Australia, our super funds,

344
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 1: I think now of our pace the banks in terms

345
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 1: of investable assets they've gone. They're bigger than our banking system.

346
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 1: Do you see are we facing a sort of a

347
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 1: risk in Australia, like a a multi pronged risk through

348
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 1: the super funds. And I'm not taking any away from

349
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: the need for super innovation. I think it's a great thing.

350
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 1: I really do, compository supernovation. It's something I really believe in.

351
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: But at the same time, who's sort of sitting on

352
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,280
Speaker 1: top of this money, who's managing this money, and how

353
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 1: this money is managed. It's got to get to find

354
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 1: its way back to the person to put the money

355
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: in the first place, especially in terms of death or

356
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 1: in injury, but also just it's got to be run properly.

357
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 1: It's got to be managed properly. It should be subject

358
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 1: to all the normal things that corporations are subject to.

359
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: Is there an organization that overseas and says, well, just

360
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: like acid overseas companies we're going to oversee you and

361
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,680
Speaker 1: we don't like the fact that you've got these sort

362
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 1: of directors there. We want you to change the independence

363
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 1: of these directors. Has anyone overseeing this stuff?

364
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of points. Firstly, the idea, whilst

365
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,600
Speaker 2: might be laudable, hasn't been very successful. Most Australians are

366
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 2: still on the pension and will be by the middle

367
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 2: of this century, so it super makes very little difference

368
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 2: to pension reliance over the long term. Wow, there are

369
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 2: more part pensioners, it compete to full pensioners, but overall

370
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 2: it hasn't been very successful in getting people off the pension. Secondly,

371
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 2: in terms of the governance, it's got the same governance

372
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 2: model it had when Paul Keating established it. That's for

373
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 2: political reasons. The Senate has on multiple occasions defeated legislation

374
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 2: which would have made sure that the funds had independent directors,

375
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 2: had better conflict of interest policies, so.

376
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 1: They stopped that from happening. Dastiari stopped it.

377
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,880
Speaker 2: SAMII stopped remember Samo was a former senator.

378
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 1: He stopped it.

379
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 2: He had other issues which you know about. But ultimately

380
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,159
Speaker 2: labor have not been prepared to support improvements to the

381
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,200
Speaker 2: governance of this scheme. So I think it has problems

382
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 2: for people who love SUPER. I say to them, why

383
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 2: don't you make the governance better? That way it's more

384
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:24,719
Speaker 2: sustainable for you.

385
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's I'm a skeptic, right, you're up for

386
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 1: re election, then your party's up for election, and your

387
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,160
Speaker 1: your fearless leader Peter Dunton, who sat in that very chair.

388
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,680
Speaker 1: What are you guys going to what's coming out in

389
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 1: to the policy relation to Super? What are you thinking about,

390
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:43,119
Speaker 1: like what changes you guys are going to put on

391
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: your platform.

392
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 2: We're not going to have a three million dollar tax

393
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:46,960
Speaker 2: on Super, so.

394
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: What you mean is you're not going to have tax

395
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: on assets over three million dollars. That's right, So that's

396
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 1: an important point. Can we just talk about that for

397
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,919
Speaker 1: a second, so maybe you can explain what that is.

398
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 1: By the way, most people don't even get it. I

399
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,680
Speaker 1: know you guys think everybody understan as were talking about,

400
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,960
Speaker 1: but the average Australian doesn't happen three million dollars with

401
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,679
Speaker 1: assets in the Super and they never think that one

402
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,199
Speaker 1: day they will have three million dollars with asset. This

403
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,440
Speaker 1: just goes off the top of their head. So maybe

404
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: you and I'll be honest, I got friends of mine

405
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: who don't even know that the tax on super innovation

406
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 1: in your super fund is less than the normal tax.

407
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 1: People just don't understand how the super thing works. I mean,

408
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 1: in most of all, the young guys over of these

409
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,600
Speaker 1: guys over he who I pay their super they probably

410
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 1: don't even think like it. They don't even think of

411
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: as an asset because it's they can't touch it. They don't.

412
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 1: They just assume it's been well looked after. I've never

413
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,640
Speaker 1: had a question from them. I don't even know where.

414
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell, and I own the business. I couldn't

415
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: see whether this money gets put and maybe they've elected

416
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 1: to put it somewhere else. Maybe you can explain this

417
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 1: three million dollar asset level after which you start to

418
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,360
Speaker 1: pay much more tax on your super.

419
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the government, the labor government, have a proposal

420
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,439
Speaker 2: to charge you a higher tax rate if you have

421
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 2: more than three million dollars in assets in your fund

422
00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 2: that hasn't gone through.

423
00:18:58,680 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 1: The hasn't gone through.

424
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 2: Right, and it's based on unrealized gains. So whether you

425
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 2: sell the asset or not, you still pay the tax,

426
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 2: So it's a tax on a balance.

427
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 1: So you're a got a super fund. You cleverly gone

428
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: by in your suit fund something worth a million bucks

429
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 1: and then miraculously there's a rezoning in Victoria and it

430
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: now becomes worth five million. But you haven't realized you're

431
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 1: still own this bit of land for example. That's right,

432
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 1: it could be a liquid. Yeah, it could be anything.

433
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 1: Let's say it is a liquid. Well, let's say you

434
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 1: just want to hold it. You don't want to sell it.

435
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 1: You got to pay tax on it's now worth five minutes.

436
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: You've got to pay You've got to pay a tax

437
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 1: on that.

438
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 2: Even though you haven't got the cash. You're going to

439
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 2: find a way to pay the you got to sell it. Correct,

440
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 2: So that's an ugly scheme. We don't like that idea.

441
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 2: And then more broadly, we think that the system should

442
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 2: be better governed. We have in the past proposed there

443
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 2: be independent directors on the boards and that there be

444
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 2: more competition in the system overall. So like we think

445
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 2: that if you're going to have super let's make sure

446
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,360
Speaker 2: that it's feed income and working for the people. Our

447
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 2: main pole though, is that people can use their own

448
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: Super to get a first house deposit.

449
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: So explain that fifty So if you.

450
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,439
Speaker 2: Have some money in Super, you can take up to

451
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 2: fifty thousand bucks to buy your first house.

452
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: To go towards the deposit.

453
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep. So I'll give you an example. So the

454
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 2: average thirty eight year old has ninety grand in the

455
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: Super right. So a lot of people by their first

456
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 2: house when they are partnered with a husband or a

457
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,479
Speaker 2: wife or partner. So two people coming together in their

458
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 2: late thirties could get one hundred grand to support their

459
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 2: first home deposit now out of the Super, out of

460
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 2: the super, cash out of the Super now, even in

461
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 2: Sydney where the market is ridiculous, that would make a

462
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: material difference to your deposit totally.

463
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: And if you've already saved some money as well, the

464
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: say've already saved between one hundred grand, you got two

465
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: hundred grand. That's twenty percent of a million dollar property.

466
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 2: That's right. And the reason that we are so high

467
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: conviction on this policy is because we believe that the

468
00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 2: key test of your retirement success is your housing stifle us.

469
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 2: It's not your superhannovation balance, it's your housing status that

470
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 2: drives your success in retirement.

471
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: That's just very interesting because you know, one thing that's

472
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: really important is when someone retires, they want to retire

473
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: with security, not just securitive income, but security of real estate.

474
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: Where you've got a roof, have you, you don't have

475
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 1: to retire so that house. Yeah, totally, it's very important.

476
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: So if they sell the house, which inevitably everyone Australia

477
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: does every four, four or five years, Let's say they

478
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: sell the house and they bought the house an example

479
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: you just we just talked about it. It's a million

480
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: bucks and they sell for three million dollars and it's

481
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 1: tax free because that's the principal place of residence. Do

482
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: you have to put the fifty grand back?

483
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 2: They've got to put it back, and they've got to

484
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 2: put a portion of the of the return.

485
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 1: Back in a proportion of the profit they made. Yeah,

486
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: so which makes sense because they've just made two million

487
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: dollars on that example, they've got to put the fifty back.

488
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 1: Both we've got to put fifty back eage and they've

489
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 1: got to put a percentage of the profit back as

490
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: well into the super fund.

491
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: Correct. But the principle is that if you don't own

492
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: a house, this policy is about it making sure you

493
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 2: can own one house. It's not a one house for

494
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 2: your whole life. It's if you don't own a house today,

495
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: you can use your super to.

496
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: Get into the market. That's right. But can you if

497
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: you do sell it, can you go back in get

498
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: another fifty hour a year, supert you can just continually

499
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 1: do it to help top you up? Why not? Yeah? No, no, totally.

500
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: So I like that as a good policy. No one's

501
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: talking about it. How come we are talking about it now?

502
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 1: You are, But I mean I haven't seen the media

503
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: talk about it.

504
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: Well. I think it's going to be one of the

505
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: most contested parts of the election because the Labor government

506
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: don't like the idea. They want all the money to

507
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: be locked up in super and in fact they want

508
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: the super funds to invest in Australian residential property but

509
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: ban people from doing the same thing. So I think

510
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: it's crazy.

511
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: They want the big super funds, they love that to

512
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: go and buy austrain residential property.

513
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 2: They love the idea of you know, branded out to us, yeah,

514
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: black Rock, Vanguard, Cebus whatever. They like the idea of

515
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 2: those big funds, institutional funds owning Australian properties and then

516
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 2: renting them out to Australians. Now, we think that's sort

517
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: of a sick, a sick Australian dream. Our Australian dream

518
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: is for individuals because we've been a property owning democracy

519
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: since the Second World War, right in the main where

520
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: most Australians have owned a house on an average income,

521
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 2: and now that's slipping away as the house becomes further

522
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 2: and further multiple of your salary. And so this is

523
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: one of the best ways to get the Australian dream

524
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 2: back on track if you haven't got access to the

525
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: bank of mom and dad.

526
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and well, one of the things I want to

527
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 1: talk about and on the bank of my dad, because

528
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: I mean I asked this question. I've done quite a

529
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: few podcasts this morning. I've had the great Chris Joy

530
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: on today and good Chris and I were talking about

531
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: a whole series of topics and largely about the economy,

532
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: et cetera. But we didn't get political. But one of

533
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: the things I did say to him is I said

534
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 1: to him, and it's a pet hate of mine, is that,

535
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: as you know, I'm in the lending game. We all

536
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: broke for the banks, but we also lend our own product,

537
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: and like everybody, we have dead tohere to the rules

538
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: as to how you assess a borrower, and right now,

539
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: as it has been since around twenty twenty early twenty twenty,

540
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: when the pandemic first hit, the threshold that we had

541
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: to apply to borrowers was three percent. In other words,

542
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: if the current interest rate is let's call it seven percent,

543
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: let's call it six percent for a home loan from

544
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: many of the banks or US. If I'm trying to

545
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: work out how much you can afford to borrow both

546
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: on your repayments, which will then inform me how much

547
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 1: I can lend you as well, I have to not

548
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: assess you with six percent. I have to assess you

549
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: at nine percent. I have to ad three percent. If

550
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't do that, I don't have to do that.

551
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: But if I don't do that, then I get punished

552
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: on the other side when I go to get the

553
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: money from the capital markets that I need to lend

554
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: to you. We don't have a deposit taking license like

555
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: the banks to have. I have to pay more because

556
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, the various investment people are going to say,

557
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: well that that loan doesn't follow the current rules. Therefore,

558
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: it's a bit more risky. What I don't like about

559
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: that rule in this environment. I get it when interest

560
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: rates are point one of a percent, Sure, I get

561
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: it because you know, like INTERUS rates are only going

562
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: to go one way, it's up, when in the fact,

563
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: it would be negligent not to add three percent at

564
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: that point because they're going to go up. But when

565
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: interust rates at an all time high, it sounds elitist

566
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: to me to apply that rule against someone who's just

567
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: trying to buy their first home for argument's sake. And

568
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: all it means is I'm going to I'm going to

569
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: assess them out of the market. Lenders are going to

570
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: assess them out of market. In other words, they can

571
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: never afford to borrow as much as someone who's more

572
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: more wealthy, and the more what that means, the more

573
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: wealthy person will outbid them every time because they can

574
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: afford to pay more. And all we're doing is creating

575
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: a chasm between the haves and have nots. It's not

576
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: really a liberal police more traditionally more a labor policy,

577
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: the haves and have nots type thing. What do you

578
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: guys got, you've got a view on this.

579
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: So the buffer the three percent buffer you talk about

580
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: mark is ridiculous for first time buyers. So if we

581
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: win the election, we'll change the rules so that first

582
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: home buyers can have a lower buffer, maybe two percent

583
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 2: rather than three percent, so they can borrow more. But

584
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: also we want to change the way that lenders mortgage

585
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 2: and insurance is priced into a mortgage because.

586
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: Generally speeding that borrower is borrowing more than eighty percent.

587
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: That's right and correct, So we also want to make

588
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: sure that that gets a lower price when it's considered

589
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: by the regulator and by the bank, so that first

590
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: home buyers. So we want to make sure that first

591
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: time buyers can have their scales tilted in their favor

592
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: against investors. So by changing the buffer and by changing

593
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: the LMI cap treatment, we think this is a good way.

594
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: So for example, someone with a half a million dollar

595
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 2: loone could borrow an extra forty thousand dollars and they

596
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 2: would also save about twenty basis points on their line,

597
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: which be about a thousand bucks a year. That's a

598
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: genuine benefit to a first home owner perspective that wouldn't

599
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: be available to an investor. So when I did this

600
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: inquiry last year, the inquiry. We looked into the detail

601
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: of this and I went and met with all these

602
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,239
Speaker 2: fantastic dogs and academics who look at the ins and

603
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: outs of housing polsy trific like brains. And one thing

604
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: that one thing that I really liked was that we're

605
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: one of the only countries in the OECD that doesn't

606
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: use lending polsy to help first own buyers. One of

607
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: the only countries that doesn't do this. If you look

608
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: at almost every other OECD country, they have some sort

609
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: of bias in their laws, their lending laws to help

610
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 2: for home bias.

611
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: It's sort of proper policy. Yeah, it's economic policy. You'd

612
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: like to help our people who aren't as well off,

613
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: so why wouldn't we have that well, And because Australia

614
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: is also one of the few countries in the world

615
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: has a disproportionate percentage of investors relative to unoccupies. Too,

616
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: we have a huge number of first of investors in

617
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: all the pools and mortgages. And the reason I know

618
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: that is because I often go on road shows to

619
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: raise money you know, for bond bond is shoes against

620
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: mortgage pools, and we're always getting asked by the people

621
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: as to the percentage of investor loans in the portfolio

622
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: relative to the owner occupieres. It's not the same another

623
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: place like the US, for example, you don't get that

624
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: sort of level of investor And maybe it's maybe it

625
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: has something to do with the fact that in these

626
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: other environments and these other areas, that there is a

627
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: bias towards an owner occupier. And by the way, there

628
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: should be a bias towards and I mean it makes sense.

629
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: Why should I be preferred as an investor against one

630
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: of the boys in the room here who are trying

631
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: to buy a property. And if we're trying to buy

632
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: it in Smithfield and Sydney, if I got if I

633
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: can borrow more money than them, and my interest rate

634
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: is less because I don't have any mortgage insurance to pay,

635
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: it's all in my favor. I can afford to pay

636
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: more correct, which means I allow bid them every time correct.

637
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: So it makes sense for us to do this because

638
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: we want to be a property owning democracy. And now,

639
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: if you look at the trajectory that millennials and gen

640
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: Z's are on, most of them are on a tradutary

641
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: never to own a house. So that's why the lending staff.

642
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: The superstuff is really important. But we also wanted to

643
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: find a way that wasn't going to result in distortions,

644
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: because even though you say there's lots of investors, we

645
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: want investors in the market to be providing supply in stock. So,

646
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: you know, the Greens say, well, we can solve the

647
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: nation's housing crisis by fiddling around with CGT negative gearing.

648
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I wish, I wish it was that simple.

649
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: I mean, if only it was that simple. So the

650
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 2: changes to lending and to super don't down mean to

651
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: do anyone else. They only help the individual prospective first time.

652
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: Buyer, So Andrew tell me, maybe get exposed to me. Then,

653
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: as we know, Chris Bowen helped Bill Shorten lose that

654
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: election in favor of Scott Morrison by promoting the deletion

655
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: or the exclusion of negative gearing and the couple of

656
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: gains the benefits of owning investment property and only have

657
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: to pay the discount rate of tax if you made

658
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: a profit. And apart from it, he also tried to

659
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: introduce frank getting rid of franking credits too, so which

660
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: is extraordinary unpopular popular when so labor is not likely

661
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: to make that mistake again. I mean they're politically, they're

662
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: pretty they know what's going on. They're pretty good politically

663
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: as politicians. They read the market and they do their

664
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: polling and they know what's popular and what's not popular.

665
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 1: What do you think would happen if the Greens came

666
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: along to you in the center say Mae, listen Andrew, mate,

667
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: we've helped you out on this inquiry, that inquiry, we

668
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: need you to help us out on you know, needative gearing.

669
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: What do you do?

670
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: What do you say to that's my no go zone,

671
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: that's not negotiable? How does that work?

672
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: We had an inquiry into it and found that if

673
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: you change negative gearing and CGT, it would have a

674
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: minuscule change on price in terms of making affordability easier.

675
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: But what it will do is shocked the supply side

676
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: of the market, so you have few houses built. So

677
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: we're not afraid of having the debate about that. We've

678
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: had the debate for a long time. We're in favor

679
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: of lower taxes and more houses, not higher taxes and

680
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: fewer houses. So like it will never be part of

681
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: our platform in the way that Chris Balen wanted it

682
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: to be part of Labour's policy some almost ten years

683
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: ago now.

684
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: And do you think that's that policy is secretly bubbling

685
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: below the service in the labor parties still.

686
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: A look, I couldn't say for certain, But as you know,

687
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 2: the only way to solve the housing crisis is to

688
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: build more houses. Really, I mean, it's mainly supply side factor,

689
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 2: and I think the bigger risk for politicians is that

690
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: they sided with the nimbi's and I understand that internally,

691
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: you know, inside the Liberal Party there's probably a lot

692
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: of people that would like to see fewer houses built

693
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: because they want to earn ouse potentially right, But we've

694
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: got to be governing for millennials gen Z's younger people,

695
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: because every apartment building that gets knocked over today by

696
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: a NIMBI makes it harder and harder for a younger

697
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: person to get that entry level flat. And as you know,

698
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: it's a highly urbanized population Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, that's where

699
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,719
Speaker 2: a lot of people will get their first house. So

700
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: I think that's the biggest risk that you play footage

701
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: with a nimbi's.

702
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: So why don't we just talk about a nimbi's that's

703
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: not in my backyard people. They're people who say, I

704
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: support everything you want to do, but just as long

705
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: at it's next door to me, and there's next door

706
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: to someone. Everything's next door to someone at the end

707
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: of the day. That's the truth. And the nimbi's have

708
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: some influence in relation to local councils and they get

709
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: the lot of influence. And then because they tend to

710
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: get the local ward counselor whoever the council is for

711
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: the local ward, they built up action groups and that

712
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. And so let me just ask you

713
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: then about the supply side for housing. So you're right.

714
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: The only way you really solve anyway you really solve

715
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: housing issue in Australia for the population that we have,

716
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: in other words, having enough supply of housing for it

717
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: to be more affordable for everybody. Apart from looking at

718
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: the lending policies and l A min and all that

719
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. With great initiatives, you have to build

720
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: more houses. And in Albanyes he did announce he governed

721
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: announced one point two million. I think it was a

722
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: new houses over five y period. But they're way behind.

723
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: I noticed that they don't talk about it much anymore.

724
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: I remember I was at the AFI Property Summit. I

725
00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: was one of the people they asked to come along

726
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: and speak think about it, and I spoke about with Shane.

727
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: Shane Oliver and I did it together. And then I

728
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: noticed there a number of developers there and the only

729
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: ones who at the end of the day who supply

730
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: housing is not the government. It's not the AFR, it's

731
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: not mere a lender. It's the developers. You've got to

732
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: get them to feel encouraged to release the land that

733
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: they've got to either put houses or apartments on there.

734
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: Because government doesn't build houses. I mean they can, but

735
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: they're not doing it, and it has developers. And the

736
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: developers build housing on the basis of lenders giving them

737
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: the money to do the development and also being able

738
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 1: to control the costs. In other words, it's a viable project.

739
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: Developers can't get enough money or can't get the money

740
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: from the lenders, which is usually the banks, unless the

741
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: banks and or in some cases private lenders private money

742
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: is confident that the these guys can get enough pre

743
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: sales pre sales that are going to count, so that

744
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: the lender doesn't feel exposed. In other words, generally speaking,

745
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: they like enough pre sales to cover the total borrowing costs,

746
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: so that they know that if push comes to shove

747
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: and if you can build it for that price, the

748
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: amount of money we're going to lend you, we're always

749
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: going to get paid back. As we can see on

750
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: a piece of paper on a spreadsheet that you have

751
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: sold one hundred apartments out of the two hundred properties

752
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: that houses or units in our building. So they're sort

753
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: of de risking themselves. But those pre sales don't count

754
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: unless borrowers buyers, i should say, feel confident that they

755
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: can borrow the dough so it goes back to the lenders,

756
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: So it actually goes back to the consumer. Right at

757
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: the end of the day. Can I feel like I

758
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: can borrow this amount of money and can I afford it?

759
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: Especially in this high interest rate environment? What would you say,

760
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: Let's assume for a moment, you guys just don't crack

761
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 1: it and Charmers is back there at the helmet now

762
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: the treasurer again, what would you What question would you

763
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: be asking Jim Chalmers? Mate, what policy? What question around policy?

764
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: You're going to be saying to Jim Chalmers, he's going

765
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: to do to help these people? And help these developers

766
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: sell these buildings and help the lenders lend them money

767
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: to the developer so they can construct the building and

768
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 1: help the buyers buy these apartments enough to satisfy the lenders.

769
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: Well, there's two questions. Firstly, I'd ask him for an

770
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: attitude readjustment, and that does he understand that the government

771
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 2: on its own can never actually solve the housing problem,

772
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: that the people you need to build the houses, trades people,

773
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: builders and developers. That's the first question. I think the

774
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 2: answer to that is uncertain from his point of view. Secondly,

775
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: I would ask him, is he going to ask the

776
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 2: Australian banks, who are protected with the Four Pillars policy

777
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: a deposit guarantee? Is he going to ask the Australian

778
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: banks to support Australian housing and the Australian dream. Is

779
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 2: he going to ask the banks to provide provide finance

780
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: to developers because as you know, most developers now are

781
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: relying on non bank finding product main which is costing more.

782
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous and it's all going into the input cost

783
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 2: of the housing development. And if I've got a third question,

784
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 2: I would say to him, what will the government do

785
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: to help cut the cost of building and help make

786
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 2: it a more viable product, because when I walk around

787
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: a building site, the developer is paying for the street lights,

788
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 2: the nature stripped, the footpath, the sewerage, the roads, and

789
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: then that's all being subsumed into the cost of the

790
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 2: product and being passed on.

791
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: And also continue to parklands the whole of other stuff.

792
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 2: But no wonder, the minimum viable product for an apartment

793
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: is unviable and uneconomic in so many cases. So those

794
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 2: are the three questions I'd ask the good doctor Charmers.

795
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: And why do you think they don't address these things?

796
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: Because why, I don't know. I just can't believe Andrew

797
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: that they don't know this. I know.

798
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: I think the answer to that is very clear. They

799
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: take all their advice from the Union and they love

800
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: the idea of a sort of public service approach to this,

801
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: which is why they put all their faith in this

802
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: Housing Australia Future Fund. And they have a view that

803
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: the government itself can build a lot of houses, which

804
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: is kind of crazy, you know, Soviet Union's socialist style

805
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 2: polsy thinking. But I don't think there's any thought in

806
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: their minds as to how they can help builders and

807
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: developers cut the cost of building and therefore the viability

808
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: of the enterprise.

809
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: But equally, even if the government builds these properties, they're

810
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: going to have the same issues that developers gone anyway.

811
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: It's just going to and the government's going to have

812
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: to try and control the costs. Of course, and governments

813
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: cannot control costs. I mean, developer has got a better

814
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: chance of controlling the cost per unit being built than

815
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: a government has because and the government's going to have

816
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: to pick up the same cost. And it sounds like

817
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: to me a way of going broke.

818
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: Well, if you if you have, if you have the

819
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: government property developer, the first person you guarantee to have

820
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: on the building side is to see if m MEU

821
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 2: at least when triggered baff builds, he's found a way

822
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: to keep these people at bay.

823
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: Well, but that's a really good point. So if the

824
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: government's building it, the next thing, you know, we're going

825
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: to have the trade unions on the side. It's going

826
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: to become a trade union side, and the traders are

827
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: going to say, well, they're they're a my pals. I'm

828
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: just going to put the will just change the pricing

829
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: and you know, all the trades are going to have

830
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: to going to cost more, and we're going to you

831
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: and you'll be paying. Instead of working five days, we

832
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: can work three days with whatever. I mean, I'm just

833
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: suspecting this is what's going to happen. How is that

834
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: a good idea that the government starts to build these things?

835
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean, why do why do we try to put

836
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: this into the government coffers and not leave it at

837
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: the at private level.

838
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: Well, it's not a good idea, which is why we

839
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 2: if we win the election, will abolish the Housing Australia

840
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 2: Future Fund and we'll be supporting private developers and builders

841
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: through our Supply Fund, which will pay for a last

842
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: mile infrastructure, so it will pay for those roads, sewerage connections,

843
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: street lights, whatever. We think that's a better way of

844
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: getting the cost down. And also we're going to freeze

845
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 2: the Construction Code for ten.

846
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: Years because which means what we see, there's.

847
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: A national Construction Code and every time it's changed by Canberra,

848
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: it costs more and more money to build.

849
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: But what does the code tell them to do? Well?

850
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: It creates the minimum standards for building a house in

851
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: Australia and it's more and more complex every year, and

852
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: so we're saying ten years, no more changes to that

853
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: because every time they change it, it costs more money. So

854
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: we've got to get the cost of building down. That's

855
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: very important. I know it's some very sexy political argument,

856
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 2: but that's we're up to now in Australia. We've got

857
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 2: to get the cost of building down. Obviously we had

858
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: more builders coming into the country, would have been helpful,

859
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 2: but the government's trades The government's had more yoga teachers

860
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: and they've had builders coming now. I love good yoga

861
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: teacher because Harris call back. It's very helpful. But no

862
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: expursion's been cast there. But right now, you know, we

863
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: need more trades people.

864
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, one percent, and particularly in places like I'm just

865
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: thinking of myself, but up in northern New South Wales

866
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: and those sorts of areas which are still suffering from

867
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: the floods in terms of getting back on side, Like

868
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: I've been trying to a bit of building up there.

869
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Like you're what a tradesman was costing,

870
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: say four years on a tweed. Yeah, yeah, four years ago.

871
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: Like let's say, electrician was eighty bucks and now they're

872
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: like one hundred and sixty bucks. Now if you can

873
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: get one and all of a sudden makes most things

874
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: not viable. And that's across all trades. And I'm not

875
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: blaming the trades people because they can do that because

876
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,760
Speaker 1: they're in demand. And if I'm in trades and anything

877
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: I'm doing, if I'm in demand, I take the opportunity

878
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: to charge more if I can, if I'll charge what

879
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: the market will bear for as long as it will

880
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: bear it. And I don't blame these guys from and

881
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: girls from getting more money. I don't. That's not the point.

882
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: But the point is in a system sense, we have

883
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: to make it affordable really so people can survive, and

884
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: that means we get we need more competition, we need

885
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: just more people here prepared to do the work that's right.

886
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: Is there an issue about getting those people? They can?

887
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: Those people not available from means.

888
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: The labor government didn't want any of these workers to

889
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 2: come in the country because they wouldn't join the CFMU, right,

890
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: and so the CFMU have had a lot of power

891
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: over this government. One of the first things this government

892
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: did was they abolished the Building Construction Commission, which was

893
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 2: like the cop on the beat for the building sector.

894
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: So we think basically having a big supply fund, stopping

895
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: their costs out of control. Stuff with the construction code,

896
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 2: bringing in new new builders and construction workers, and then

897
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 2: the stuff on lending and super We think that's going

898
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: to move the needle on housing straight away.

899
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: So you know, we saw and I'm not suggesting you

900
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: guys are going to be Trump like, but no, we

901
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: want But Trump said, look in the first hundred days,

902
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this. Next hundred days. I mean,

903
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: you guys prepare to commit to those sort of things,

904
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: you know, the first term, the first six months of

905
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: our first elected term.

906
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: We'll have to because if we don't make you talk otherwise,

907
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: if you don't make material ground on supply, then the

908
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: problem becomes our problem. So Laboy said they'd build one

909
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 2: point two million houses. They're only on track to build

910
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: about seven hundred thousand houses. We need to be building

911
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 2: about two hundred and fifty thousand houses a year in Australia, right,

912
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: So just put it into sort of context. Under the

913
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,959
Speaker 2: last College and government, we got one hundred and ninety

914
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: five thousand houses a year on average. Under this governments

915
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 2: down to one hundred and seventy thousand. Got to get

916
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 2: up to two fifty thousand. So if within twelve months

917
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: we haven't moved a needle on that, then we are

918
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 2: in a lot of trouble. So I don't like a

919
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 2: lot of the Trump policies. I don't like a lot

920
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 2: of the methods. But I do like the fact that

921
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: he was organized and ready to go. So because you

922
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: haven't got a minute to wait.

923
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: Because I was going to say, well, what does that

924
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: mean in organizing? A ready goes like? Obviously he had

925
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,479
Speaker 1: Musk there and all those of people ready to jump

926
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: on everything. How do you guys? Sort of Otherwise, everything's

927
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: just a good idea. It's all about the execution. As

928
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's not about the idea. Good idea is important,

929
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: but you've got to be able to execute on a

930
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: good idea. You've got some good ideas you talk about today,

931
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: How do I give you an example?

932
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: Give you an example. So I would say to counsels

933
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: and developers that I meet with, please do not wait

934
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: to do the feasibility report for what you need funded,

935
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 2: whether it's a new series system or a new road

936
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: to support this development. Please do the work now. If

937
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: we win the election, you can send it in on

938
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: the first day or the second day. You've got to

939
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: get work done now so that if you win, you're

940
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: ready to go. You're ready to legislate your new policy, right,

941
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: You're ready to ss the funding grants those sorts of things.

942
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: So let's say for it, because I mean, I've been

943
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: listening to listen to the radio here in the mornings

944
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: of the last period, and we've been talking about the

945
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: Electrical Trades Union here holding things up, and the people

946
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: in the ward, you know, the water board, waterboards a disaster,

947
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: you know, not approving this or not doing that, and

948
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: their public servants, I mean, someone inside is deciding at

949
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: what speed they go their state, your federal Sure, can

950
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: you go in there and sort of telling hey, guys,

951
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: just get this thing sorted.

952
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: Well, if you prepare to use your pulpit. Yes, I mean,

953
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: but politics is about advocacy.

954
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: Now.

955
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 2: Chris Means, who has said a lot of good things

956
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: about housing, and I think he's done a lot of.

957
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: Frankly, he's done a lot of good things.

958
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: Actually, Chris Means want to be the housing premiere, but

959
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: his agencies like the water Board are destroying it. So

960
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: if we were the government and we were going to

961
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: fund a piece of water infrastructure. Then we would use

962
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: our pulpit to point that out to him and hopefully

963
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 2: embarrass him into doing what needs to be done. So

964
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 2: you've got to be able to advocate and use your position.

965
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 2: What does that mean pulpit or pull pull pit? You

966
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 2: know you're like in church.

967
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, yeah, as in the church.

968
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: You've got to stand up and you've got to advocate.

969
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: That's the job, and that is that you're if you

970
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: stay in this role, that's your role. So you would

971
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: you be like, I can't. I'm just trying to work

972
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: out how it will work. But let's say you know,

973
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: there's a development going on sometime in New South Wales

974
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: and we need the water board to approve this, and

975
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: we need someone else to do something rather, you know,

976
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: to connect up some power or pipes or something, and

977
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: the men's government is not sort of responding even though

978
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: lots of jaw burning happens. Would would Andrew Bray get

979
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: up there and sort of, you know, call the press

980
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: conference and just say this is not happened quick enough.

981
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: We've got the money ready to spend on these infrastructure

982
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: things that need to be spent on. We're not going

983
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: to ask the developer to do it. We want this

984
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: to happen. We need it to happen in order to

985
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: meet our guidelines for the one point two million or

986
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: wherever it is to fifty thou year houses. Chris Mins,

987
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 1: I'm calling you out. Can you get the water board

988
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: to do that?

989
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 2: That is exactly what we would do. That's pretty balls

990
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 2: and we would call the press conference out the front

991
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 2: of the site.

992
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: Well, that's ballsy, that's never I don't think it's happened

993
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: here before. That's what you need to do. Yeah, so

994
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't get radical here.

995
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that is sort of radicake some risks and

996
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: not risk.

997
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: Free for a politician to do that, but it's got

998
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: to happen. Yeah, no, totally, there is risk associated with that.

999
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: Dumb and I mean, I see you know Musket is

1000
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: not electric politician. But at the same time he's sort

1001
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: of doing a lot of bidding for over the American

1002
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: and he uses X and things like that to call

1003
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: things out all the time. I mean, will you will

1004
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: you be aggressively pushing for these things to happen, like

1005
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: using whatever mediums that are you know that you can

1006
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: get access to you have to and a responsible way.

1007
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: You have to do otherwise the deep state eat you.

1008
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: I mean, you just don't get things done. I mean,

1009
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: for example, if you discover a corporate crime in Australia,

1010
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: I would say reporting it to the media is more

1011
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: effective than reporting it to ask they'll move faster. Like

1012
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: sometimes getting people to do something that they want to

1013
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: do is only going to happen if they feel a

1014
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 2: bit of risk. Well, they feel a bit expired for them,

1015
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: right for them now means it's a good guy, everyone

1016
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 2: likes him, whatever. But if he wants to be the

1017
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: housing premiere, he's got to get the agencies to do

1018
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 2: the right thing.

1019
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: And so his agency meaning water boards, water board.

1020
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: The power people, whatever. So if if a federal government

1021
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 2: comes along and says you're not doing this, we're putting

1022
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: in our share, then he would feel very exposed. And

1023
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: that's what we've got to do to get traction on

1024
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: housing supply. So and I'm very high conviction of it.

1025
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 2: I thought about it very carefully.

1026
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, because then so I was going to say, you know, Andrew,

1027
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: you're I mean, it's a big call, Like, I mean,

1028
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: you're going to have to do it in every state.

1029
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: Of course, it's not just Sydney or not. I shouldn't

1030
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: be just picking on Chrismians. But this is this is

1031
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: Australia wide. This issue.

1032
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: If if you go, if you go to Southwest Sydney

1033
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 2: where a lot of the action is on housing, right,

1034
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: you know that Liverpool, Camden, Campbelltown, LGAs can't talk to

1035
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 2: the developers there. They'll say, well, we wanted to build

1036
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: two hundred flats but we couldn't because Sydney Water wouldn't

1037
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: turn the water on.

1038
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: You know, I've heard him say it, it's true. I've

1039
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: actually heard him at the at the AFL summit with

1040
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: Jennifer Hewett. I mean I heard them say this stuff.

1041
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: You know, they're saying, you might have this goal of

1042
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: one point two million houses, but we don't because it's

1043
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: just not viable for us to do this.

1044
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: So I mean, like, but that's not how democracy works.

1045
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: Mark the Premiere of the state, has said this is

1046
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 2: his number one priority. He cannot be undermined by some

1047
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: random agency. Like that's not right. Yeah, that's that's that is.

1048
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 1: I hate that me too. So your leader, Peter Dutton

1049
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: and the rest of your party is everybody in supporters,

1050
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: do you have to convince everybody of.

1051
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: Stuff we've alread announced, Peter's announced it. It's done.

1052
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: Five billion dollars we'll put on the table for now

1053
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about. You get in front of the

1054
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: at the side of Brinelli or whatever is you're talking

1055
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: about it and actually standing there saying calling him out.

1056
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 2: I think Peter has shown he understands unless you get

1057
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 2: the houses built, then young people will pay, and he's

1058
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: prepared to support that for sure.

1059
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: And what sort of traction are you getting you guys now?

1060
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: I mean the lection's coming up because it's going to

1061
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: be May. Obviously, you guys had a bit of a

1062
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: magic run there for a while. You sort of slipped

1063
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: back on the polls. How you feeling with all this now?

1064
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's going to be a class selection.

1065
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: It's all or nothing for you guys now.

1066
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I think it's going to be pretty close.

1067
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: We've got a better offering our challenges. How can we

1068
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 2: talk to as many people as possible about these issues?

1069
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: As you know, it's complex in many cases, and labor

1070
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 2: is good. It's been good at politics, but overall I'd

1071
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: rather be asked than them.

1072
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, otherwise you would just switch parties, but

1073
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: you're but do you feel as that you're being effective?

1074
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I see Anthony is the Prime Minister with

1075
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 1: the greatest respect, has been on all sorts of shows,

1076
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: I mean ranging from all sorts of characters who have podcasts,

1077
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: his very first podcast, so I'm proud to say with

1078
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: us and it's true. But nonetheless he's been all over

1079
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: the shop. He's sort of talking to everybody. Are you

1080
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 1: guys prepared to do that? Because you talk to everybody.

1081
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 2: So I think Darton is one of those classic politicians

1082
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: that the more people he meets, the more votes he gets,

1083
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 2: because as you know, he's a fundamentally decent ones Disney guy.

1084
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: He's a decent guy what you see where you get

1085
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: and pretty smart too.

1086
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 2: I think even if you don't agree with that, and

1087
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: the thing that you have to like about him is

1088
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: you know where he stands. You're not thinking, oh, this

1089
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: guy's a bit une principled always you're I'm not sure

1090
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 2: where he's going to go. You know where he's going

1091
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: to go.

1092
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1093
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: I think that's really an important quality of leadership. So

1094
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: I think because there's a lot of politicians I might't

1095
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 2: name any of them, that the more people they meet,

1096
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: the fewer votes they get. We've done. And I think

1097
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 2: the more people he meets, the more votes he gets.

1098
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: Well to some extent. I mean I've seen this in

1099
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: the political agendas through the verious election cycles, particularly last one.

1100
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: In this one, there are a few politicians who the

1101
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: party says, we don't want you out in front of everybody,

1102
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: just stay behind the scenes. The more you speak that

1103
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: those votes we get depends on the issue. I think, yeah,

1104
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: it depends on the issue. And what do you think

1105
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: of the big issues for this election? I mean, cost

1106
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: living is a big one, but how would you guys

1107
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: go about sort of aiding us in the cost of

1108
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: living issue?

1109
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: Or energy is huge, right, making sure we have cheap

1110
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: energy that's keep for small businesses, keep for households. The

1111
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: housing issue is massive, the fact that so many young

1112
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 2: people feel disaffected that the Australian dream is dead for them.

1113
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: Those would be two of the biggest issues for us

1114
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 2: at this campaign. And we've got quite different policies from

1115
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 2: labor on housing and now on energy.

1116
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw the energy one in the budget reply,

1117
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: the gas for the gas reservation and I think that

1118
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: makes sense, That makes a lot of sense. I think

1119
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: what most people don't. And I don't want to put

1120
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 1: people down, but most people one didn't even know there's

1121
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: a budget. They definitely don't know about the budget reply

1122
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: on Thursday. They don't understand the word gas reservation. The

1123
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: AFI does, Sinney Morning Herald do, and Telegraph and all those,

1124
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: but you and I do. But generally speaking, most people

1125
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: don't understand the significance of what gas reservation means. They

1126
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: don't understand LMI, which you were talking about. How do

1127
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: we sort of explain to people these You said, you've

1128
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: got to ge it in front of more people, and

1129
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: doun't's going to get in front of more people to

1130
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 1: get that part? But how do you break down these

1131
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: things into simple terms because they're complex thoughts. There's complexity

1132
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: around it.

1133
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but people aren't Austrainers are not stupid. I think

1134
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 2: generally people will understand these cond tips. And you start

1135
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: with the outcome. Your energy prices are too high because

1136
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: X Y z right, and in this case has been

1137
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: enough gas. They've relied on renewables only for example. They

1138
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 2: haven't looked at nuclear in the long term. Those are

1139
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 2: sort of some of the answers on housing. We've talked

1140
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: about it, right. The reason is not enough houses built

1141
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: and not enough creativity to help first home buyers. As

1142
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: we said before, the only country that we compare ourselves

1143
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: to without any lending policy to help first an buyers.

1144
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 2: So that's some of the reasons why it's.

1145
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: Quite interesting because you're the first politician who I've actually

1146
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: had the conversation with that's ever talked about lending policy

1147
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 1: relative to first time bise. I mean, I saw Donet

1148
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 1: announced something about it earlier this week. I think it's

1149
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: ear lest. We may have been late last week, but

1150
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: you're the first long form politician, long form conversation that

1151
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: I've seen. Sure, it appears in the fin Review and

1152
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: appears in the Citney Morning Held, and it might appear

1153
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,919
Speaker 1: in the Teally, et cetera. But and even if it does,

1154
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: it's not guaranteed to be read by most people. It

1155
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 1: just seems to me that it needs to be. And

1156
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,919
Speaker 1: I don't want to go back to the American style,

1157
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: but American style nearly rally style. You nearly really need

1158
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: to be standing in front of fifty people and the

1159
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: next day another fifty bill, the next day another hundred people,

1160
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: and explaining to them this sort of stuff. I mean,

1161
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: being on Charlotte, this is good because it's long form

1162
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: and there's you know, it's an opportunity for me to

1163
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 1: ask questions and sort of to try and work and

1164
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: all that with alongside with you. But and my audience

1165
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: is prett big audience. But they might see this, but

1166
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: they might have watched the whole thing. They might only

1167
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 1: listen to part of it. They might not really get it,

1168
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: and they might go on to the next proper show

1169
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: we show and forget about the conversation between here and

1170
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: the election day. I just wonder is there another way

1171
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: that someone like you, Andrew, you know, like you know,

1172
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: a boy from Shepard and like if you ever thought

1173
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: yourself what to be better? Is there a better way

1174
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: that you could talk about this sort of stuff and

1175
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 1: not rely on the normal mediums, particularly like you know,

1176
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: like digital mediums that we have now the old form

1177
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: mediums were actually which is what Trump was great at,

1178
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: actually old four mediums. I mean he did all the

1179
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: new ones, but he's the old ones like that he

1180
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: was look like to me because when I get glued

1181
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: to the television when there's an election on particularly American election,

1182
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: it was nearly twenty four hours a day, a guy's

1183
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: nearly eighty years of age. I was marveling at him,

1184
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: and by the way, you know, to some extent, Kamala

1185
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: was sort of doing the same thing. But I was

1186
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,720
Speaker 1: marveling at the energy of these individuals in the amount

1187
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: of time they put into it. It is a big deal.

1188
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: It's a presidential election. It's different a what we do.

1189
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: But we nearly need someone in every department, like your department,

1190
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: to prosecute Labor's guilty of the same stuff. By the way,

1191
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: in fact, I've heard less. I don't think I've heard

1192
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: anything from your equivalent in fact, and I have to

1193
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: say to the audience, this guy drove me mad to

1194
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 1: get on the show. Like I'm not doing him a favor.

1195
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: He wanted to come on the show and rack somehow

1196
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: I found my EA and everything, Like Andrew Rag's on

1197
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: the phone. He wants to know when he's going to

1198
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: the show, So that's pretty important. I've I've heard nothing

1199
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: from Labor. Nothing. The only person's trying to get on

1200
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: the show is Jim Chalmers. Obviously alb and easy, but

1201
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: Chalmers has us to come on. But other than that, nobody.

1202
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: It's like Australian politicians don't get it. We want you

1203
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: to talk to us, We want you to talk to

1204
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: us more and more and more and more and more.

1205
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: Do you ever, in your moments dream about how you

1206
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: might be able to do this more often and better

1207
00:56:57,880 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 1: or is there no better way?

1208
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: Well, I think YouTube is now a magnificent platform for

1209
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 2: politicians to talk about governor YouTube, right, we think that's

1210
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 2: really good. Secondly, podcasters like you that have a big

1211
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 2: audience is a fantastic medium for us because no one

1212
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 2: is watching the news that they used to, or very

1213
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 2: few people watch the National nine news.

1214
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: Well they've already heard it before it gets on television.

1215
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: So we think it's very important. And then, more broadly,

1216
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 2: you rely on word of mouth. So in relation to

1217
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 2: a lending change, I would be hoping that the mortgage

1218
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: breaking associations and bodies will now be telling all their

1219
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: members about our changes. And then when a person walks

1220
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: into a mortgage breaking shop, maybe in the South Coast

1221
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 2: in South Wales or something, to buy a first house,

1222
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 2: mortgage broker would say to them, well, maybe not in

1223
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 2: these exact terms, but if the Coalition wins the election,

1224
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 2: your loan buffer will be two percent, not three percent

1225
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: for example.

1226
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: Well, okay, what about if I said to you, what

1227
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: about our introduced you to any came from the advisor

1228
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: which talks to them all, so that's our when this

1229
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 1: is from magazine. Yeah, and I should declare my brother

1230
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: owns a part of that, but it doesn't matter. But

1231
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: if I said to you, that's the most read magazine

1232
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: by seventeen thousand brokers, every broker in the country reads

1233
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: everybody does, have you maybe should do an interview with

1234
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: it then?

1235
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: So I have before And that's exactly the idea. So

1236
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 2: the idea is then the mortgage breaker sits in front

1237
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 2: of the Australian person and then explains to them how

1238
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: our policy would work and how it will be different

1239
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: to the labor parties.

1240
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: That's an important part of this because I think you

1241
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: touch a lot of people that way, right. You want

1242
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: the mortage ready to be talking about it, that's right,

1243
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: and you want and mortgage brokers would like to know

1244
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party for example, or the Light Party, but

1245
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: is in their corner. So you know, one of the

1246
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: other issues that you know the mortgage broker might like

1247
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: to hear from you, you know through the advisor, is

1248
00:58:55,320 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: is this, you believe that the moreage brokers important, and

1249
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: that you want to let the blank banks screw the

1250
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: mortge broker because mortgage broguers are terrified and I don't

1251
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: even know how this could possibly happen legally, that the

1252
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: bank's are all going to gang up and somehow crush

1253
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: the mortgage broken industry and put everyone back to a

1254
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: position where they have to go individually back to their

1255
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: own bank and we're never going back to from home line. Well,

1256
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: if you spoke to the mortgage brokes and he said

1257
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: we're never going to let that happen again, We're never

1258
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: going to go back to that, that would get every

1259
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: mortgage brokeer in the country supporting just everything you do,

1260
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 1: particularly if you can help their first time buyers buy

1261
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,919
Speaker 1: a home more readily. I mean, and I wonder whether

1262
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: you should be talking to people like the Advisor and

1263
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: there is another one or two other magazines, but who

1264
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 1: talked to brogus. I mean, I got fifteen hundred brokers

1265
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: who work for me, of which probably they've got three

1266
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: or four, three or four mostly the three or four

1267
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,439
Speaker 1: brokers working for them, So got thousands of people working

1268
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: for us. They're exclusive to us. That's the question that

1269
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: always asks me which government right now, which government is

1270
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: going to look after us the most, because at the

1271
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: end of the day, voters vote for what's in it

1272
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: for them. That's right, every one of us. We're not

1273
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 1: really thinking about what's in it for anybody else. We're

1274
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: thinking about what's in it for us first. I understand

1275
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: that's our mentality, and I'm thinking about what's wanted. I

1276
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: want to know which party who's up for election he's

1277
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: going to look after my business, my people, because I'm

1278
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: out there trying to look after my people, my brokers.

1279
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: And if you guys would be prepared to talk but

1280
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: to talk to the advisor and actually make these sorts

1281
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: of commitments and maybe Label would do anyway, but I

1282
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: don't know that will go a long way to getting

1283
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: people to pay attention to listen to you, because if

1284
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: you can show someone what's in it for me, they

1285
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: will then prosecute what's in it for you.

1286
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we want the brokers to be writing more

1287
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 2: and more loans for first time by its, because it's

1288
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 2: pretty hard to get a first house that our mortgage.

1289
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: And it's very hard to get the moves out there. Broker. Yeah,

1290
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: but these days, because because loans are complicated and brokers

1291
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: know the rules that if particularly if you bring rules

1292
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 1: in like this, these sort of rules where it's only

1293
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: two percent, for example, in the threshold, a borrower doesn't

1294
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: know that. I mean, you might say it a thousand

1295
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: times over, but they may never have read the paper

1296
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: or listened to the publication where he said it. Whereas

1297
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: a broker that's their job to know it. They will

1298
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: know it. Yeah, And I just mean, I'm so glad

1299
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: that you raise this issue because you know, I'm going

1300
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: to contact the advice and I'm going to give contact

1301
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: you and talk to you if you don't mind. Yeah, good, Yeah,

1302
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: because it's a good thing for them to know that

1303
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: someone's batten for the broken industry.

1304
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 2: We like them because they provide competition right in a

1305
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 2: totally industry which is desperately in need of competition. And

1306
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 2: the banks are highly protected as species with the four

1307
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 2: pills policy. Plus the bank can guarantee you like. I

1308
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 2: don't think we owe the banks any favors. I think,

1309
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: in fact, the banks are the Aralian people the best

1310
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 2: posible deal they can give people, rather than trying to

1311
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 2: presume other parts of the value chain, so I think

1312
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: that's important. Look also, I've had good experience with breakers

1313
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 2: in my own my own life. But I think a

1314
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: lot of politicians probably don't don't sit in front of

1315
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 2: a financial planner or mortgage back all that often, and

1316
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 2: I think that actually impedes their ability to understand how

1317
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 2: federal regulation can be deployed or not deployed to help people.

1318
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: And if if you don't mind, I just I'll make

1319
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: us a little comment bit more looking seeking some guidance

1320
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: from you in relation to what you guys are thinking

1321
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: about for this selection. But in Australia, banking is controlled

1322
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: by a few banks. Yeah, there's lots of banks, but

1323
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: largely controlled by a few banks. Insurance is controlled by

1324
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: a few a few insurance companies. Retailers controlled by a

1325
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: few retailers. Telco is controlled by a few telcos, et cetera.

1326
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: You think about that as a party.

1327
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 2: We're a nation of oligopolies. And this is what I've

1328
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 2: always been procrypto because I always thought that if you

1329
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 2: can get crypto to help disrupt and to get lower

1330
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 2: prices and better choices, different choices to Australians, like you know,

1331
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 2: the international remittances is one of the best use cases

1332
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 2: for crypto. That's got to be a good thing. But

1333
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 2: you've got to make sure that you harness that rather

1334
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 2: than just export all those ideas to do bio to Singapore.

1335
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 2: So generally speaking, I'm worried that we are a nation

1336
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 2: of oligopolies because I think it could be massively disrupted overnight.

1337
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what oligopolies do. Though they tend to

1338
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: stop any sort of disruption that's bad because they lose

1339
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: part of their power base and therefore they or they

1340
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: don't acting in concert. They're not acting, they're not colluding,

1341
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: but they sort of all know what each other does,

1342
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: so they just stay where it is and have all

1343
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 1: hab it to have a twenty five percent of the

1344
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: market or twenty percent of the market or over the

1345
01:03:58,000 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: case won't be And if we grow one or gay

1346
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: down by one doesn't really matter. It's about maintaining our

1347
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: profitability and actually trying to somehow increase our margins. And

1348
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: that's that's the sort of a definition of mologopoly. It's

1349
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: funny enough when when I was a kid, not a kid,

1350
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: when I was a much younger man, I wrote an

1351
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: article in the fin Review about oligopolies in a relations

1352
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: to the banking industry. And my father who's passed away,

1353
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: but he's Greek, and he said, my mother, who's not Greek,

1354
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: she used to read the Finishry of all the times.

1355
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: She put this one article in front of my dad,

1356
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: and dad said, Mark, He said, I really like that word.

1357
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 1: Oligopoly or legal or legal, poorly or illegal means few.

1358
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 1: Poorly means many, few control many, just a few control many,

1359
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: as opposed to monopoly, which one controls everyone, duopoly to

1360
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: control of me. But oligopoli is just illegal, means a

1361
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: few small amounts of illegal. And it's interesting. My dad

1362
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: got it straight up. And you know he's didn't go

1363
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: to university, didn't even go to school, and he worked

1364
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: in factory most of his life. But people understand simple concepts,

1365
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: and there's not wrong that a few control everyone. But

1366
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: it also explains to us why prices can.

1367
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: Be kept high.

1368
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: My access to certain things can be constrained just to

1369
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: the elite, which is actually like, I really like your

1370
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: idea about the threshold stuff, you know, reducing that making

1371
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: home loans more accessible, but only accessible, I should say,

1372
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: and more accessible to one cohort of people, younger people

1373
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: perhaps or whatever. First time by is it's a it's

1374
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 1: a bloody good policy and it's about time that I

1375
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: think is about time that it's interesting liberal are sort

1376
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 1: of going more to the middle. I don't know's it's

1377
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: working class territories where labor used to play and liberals

1378
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: are sort of moving into that territory. It's quite an

1379
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: interesting change in the politics. And I don't think most

1380
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: people know that.

1381
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: We've always been the promoters of home ownership, though if

1382
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 2: you go back to the means his age, we were

1383
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 2: always a party of home ownership.

1384
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: Well, John Howard in two thousand and two, always two

1385
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 1: thousand and one, I think it was certainly one election,

1386
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: like it was affordability. He launched affordability program in Adelaide.

1387
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: I remember we launched it, launched the election for that.

1388
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: In that period, I was around home affordability because I

1389
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: remember because I funded a young man who did a

1390
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: study on a PhD study on this. That was Joy.

1391
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris Joy, who launched it.

1392
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: And the reason I founded is because he was working

1393
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: for Malcolm Turnbull who was at Gold and Saxson. Mal

1394
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: Malcolm rang me and I remember I funded the as

1395
01:06:58,120 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: a young bloke. So we didn't have any money. You

1396
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: needed something to fund the study of it, which this is.

1397
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 2: The means he's research one.

1398
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that was Chris Joy and Chris was sitting

1399
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: in that chair only three.

1400
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 2: Hours ago, Is that right?

1401
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1402
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 2: Crazy.

1403
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 1: He's a good made of mine. So but but I

1404
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 1: remember it well. It wasn't a good friend of mine

1405
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 1: at the time because I was introduced him through Malcolm,

1406
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: but it was. It's interesting it's still the major issue affordability,

1407
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: and that's twenty four years ago and I'm hoping someone

1408
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: will solve it this round.

1409
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 2: Well, I think we're going to have a good crack

1410
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 2: at it with our supply and our demand side policies,

1411
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 2: which are so different from whatever Labour's offering.

1412
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: So it's totally different. It's different to anything I've heard before.

1413
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: So that I want to say congratulations the best, like

1414
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: look just for that, Just for that, I hope you

1415
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: guys win. Thank you, thank you, I really did just

1416
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: for that, because I'm going to put a smile lot

1417
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: of Australians faces And that's all I'm interested in is

1418
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: Australians getting a roof over the heads. That's the most

1419
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: important thing to me. Yeah, that's my mission too good

1420
01:07:57,640 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 1: good to see him.

1421
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 2: Thanks marks back.