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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday May twelve, twenty twenty five. Rome's conclave is done.

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Speaker 1: Now it's Canberra's turn. This morning the National Party votes

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Speaker 1: on its leadership, and on Tuesday the Liberals gather to

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Speaker 1: choose between Susan Lee and a double act featuring Angus

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Speaker 1: Taylor and Jaciner NumPy Price. Anthony Alberanezi will today reveal

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Speaker 1: his reshaped cabinet in the wake of a tirade from

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Speaker 1: dumped Minister Ed Husick. Husick says his support for Palestine

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Speaker 1: cost him the job and calls Deputy PM Richard Miles

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Speaker 1: a factional assassin. Pope Leo the fourteenth has been in

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Speaker 1: the job for three days and already his biggest early

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Speaker 1: test is looming how to grapple with the Chinese Communist

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Speaker 1: Party's tightening group on the Catholic Church. Chinese Catholics, just

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Speaker 1: like all people of faith, have been persecuted in China,

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Speaker 1: but the late Pope Francis signed a deal with Beijing

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Speaker 1: that's wildly controversial. Today, Leo versus the Dragon. As Catholics

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Speaker 1: around the world mourned Hope Francis. One point four billion

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Speaker 1: Catholics mourning the passing of Pope.

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Speaker 2: Pope Francis has died aged eighty eight.

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Speaker 1: And cardinals made their way to Rome to choose a

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Speaker 1: new pope.

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Speaker 2: I no desire to create bitterness in this conclave, and

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Speaker 2: I will be happy to stand down as deep.

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Speaker 1: The Chinese Communist Party was an opportunity. Without consulting the Vatican,

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Speaker 1: China appointed two new bishops of the Catholic Church. It

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Speaker 1: was a brazen power move.

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Speaker 2: It was really quite inappropriate, and the Vatican hadn't been

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Speaker 2: told beforehand. Bishops can only ever be finally appointed in

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Speaker 2: the Church if the reigning pope signs off on and

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Speaker 2: these two were appointed after France has died.

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Speaker 1: Jess Livingston is a senior journalist with The Australian. She

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Speaker 1: spent years reporting and writing about the Catholic Church, including

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Speaker 1: two books about the late Cardinal George pell.

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Speaker 2: They want the Catholic Church in China for some reason,

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Speaker 2: but they want it on their terms.

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Speaker 1: The new bishops weren't China's only move during the interregnum

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Speaker 1: between two popes.

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Speaker 2: China has brought in a whole set of new rules

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Speaker 2: from the first of May that unless the church workers

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Speaker 2: and indeed church participants and worshipers toe the line on

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of rules, they can be arrested and

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Speaker 2: faced criminal charges, which is pretty off putting to the

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Speaker 2: whole process. That's not just for Catholics over but other

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Speaker 2: Protestant religions and Buddhists will suffer under that, as will

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Speaker 2: Fallongong and other groups. They really are cracking down on

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Speaker 2: freedom of religion in China, which is very concerning.

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Speaker 1: Since Chairman Maujidong took control in nineteen forty nine, China

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Speaker 1: is officially a communist state, that means it's Apeist two.

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Speaker 1: Religion is theoretically allowed, but only under the tight control

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Speaker 1: of the Chinese Communist Party. In the late fifties, the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church was to be incorporated into official Communist Party

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Speaker 1: structures and renamed the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. Many Catholics,

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Speaker 1: just like other religious people, have tried to continue practicing

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Speaker 1: their own way in private homes and what's known as

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Speaker 1: the traditional or underground Catholic Church.

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Speaker 2: Christians have had a very rough deal from the Chinese

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Speaker 2: Communist Party. Many, particularly adherents of the traditional Church, have

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Speaker 2: been persecuted. There have been priests in jail there for decades,

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Speaker 2: lay people tortured pretty brutally to Claire.

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Speaker 1: Adding to the tension, the Holy See doesn't recognize mainland China,

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Speaker 1: instead enraging the Communists by recognizing Taiwan as the true China.

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Speaker 1: And that's where Pope Francis comes in. When he became

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Speaker 1: pope in twenty thirteen, Francis wanted to establish diplomatic relations

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Speaker 1: with China, something previous Popes John Paul and Benedict had

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Speaker 1: also hoped.

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Speaker 2: For the reason they never signed an agreement was when

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Speaker 2: the negotiations got going, they saw straight away China was

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Speaker 2: just going to impose too many limitations and restrictions on them.

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Speaker 1: Francis and his Vatican Secretary Estate, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, pushed

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Speaker 1: ahead and in twenty eighteen signed an agreement with the

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Speaker 1: government of Shijinping. But the agreement is secret. It's never

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Speaker 1: been seen in public.

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Speaker 2: The agreement meant, I think that China would be able

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Speaker 2: to ensure that the like minded bishops would be appointed

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Speaker 2: bishops in sympathy with the Chinese Communist Party regime basically,

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Speaker 2: and it caused a huge amount of anger there's an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary character in Hong Kong. Cardinals Zenni's ninety three going

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Speaker 2: on fifty, his bright and alert. He's very funny actually,

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Speaker 2: but he said, look, this is a betrayal. You've thrown

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Speaker 2: the faithful Catholics in China under the bus. He traveled

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Speaker 2: to the Vatican to see Francis about it. He was

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Speaker 2: barred on one occasion from seeing Francis, and he was

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Speaker 2: quite public about it. So it really has caused a

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Speaker 2: lot of controversy, and I think the Church in Rome

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Speaker 2: probably thought, with reasonable expectations that it might generally lead

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Speaker 2: to a bit more religious freedom in general in China

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Speaker 2: for everybody. That has not proven to be the case.

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Speaker 1: This all sounds very familiar to any student of Chinese history.

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Speaker 1: In the fifties, China invaded Tibet, which the CCP considers

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Speaker 1: Chinese territory, and began brutal repression of monks and clerics.

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Speaker 1: Ancient monases were sacked, The young Dalai Lama was whisked

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Speaker 1: out of the country and into India. He's never been back.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety five, the Chinese government kidnapped the second

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Speaker 1: highest spiritual figure in Tibet, a six year old boy

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Speaker 1: who had been proclaimed panchen Lama that is the reincarnation

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Speaker 1: of a long line of sacred leaders. This boy and

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Speaker 1: his family disappeared into China, and China replaced him with

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Speaker 1: a panchen Lama of its own, choosing coming up. How

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Speaker 1: all this played into the election of Pope Leo. Behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes of the real life conclave. When the cardinals

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Speaker 1: shuffled into the Sistine Chapel to elect a new pope

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Speaker 1: last week, the China situation loomed large. Two of the

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Speaker 1: men considered front runners to be Pope were Vatican Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State Pietro Paolin and Louis Tugley, the Filipino Cardinal.

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Speaker 1: Tug Lay was an enthusiastic backer of the China deal,

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Speaker 1: and Paolin, one of the men who negotiated it with China,

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Speaker 1: was tarred by association.

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Speaker 2: It's become of greater concern over the years as China

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Speaker 2: has become more aggressive, especially in our region. No one's

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Speaker 2: forgotten that Cardinal Pailum came out and criticized Aucus when

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Speaker 2: that agreement was finalized with Australia, the United States and Britain,

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Speaker 2: and he said, oh, you know, it could lead to

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Speaker 2: an arms race in the Pacific, it'll be bad for peace, etc.

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Speaker 1: Etc.

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Speaker 2: Now, it was a bit of a one sided statement

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Speaker 2: and it rather echoed the Chinese view of aucurs at

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Speaker 2: the time, So I don't think that did his cause

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Speaker 2: a lot of good. With a large group of cardinals.

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Speaker 1: Robert Prevost came through the middle and was elected Pope

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Speaker 1: Leo the fourteenth. On Saturday, he called a consistory to

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Speaker 1: ask for cardinals collaboration.

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Speaker 2: He got all the cardinals together while they're still in

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Speaker 2: Rome and had a meeting. That again was something Francis

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Speaker 2: never liked to do, and Leo said at that meeting,

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Speaker 2: you're my closest advisors. I want to hear from you.

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Speaker 2: And everyone was delighted about that because it means he'll

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Speaker 2: work with the College of Cardinals. Someone at that meeting,

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Speaker 2: someone who's very experienced, who worked as a Vatican official

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Speaker 2: for many years, he got up and said, look, something

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Speaker 2: has got to be done about this agreement. It is

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Speaker 2: not working out now, it's not helping the Church, and

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Speaker 2: it's not helping people in China, or is it helping

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Speaker 2: any religion in China.

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Speaker 1: There must be a bit of a dilemma for Leo

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Speaker 1: now in regards to this Chinese deal, because presumably if

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Speaker 1: he rips it up, the risk is that he exposes

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Speaker 1: Chinese Catholics to retribution.

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Speaker 2: Oh, persecution, absolutely, Claire. Oh, look, I think people arguing

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Speaker 2: it should be ripped up of being extremely naive. I

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Speaker 2: think he will be as sensible, steady as she goes person.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he will rip it up. It would

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Speaker 2: be good, I think in the interests of transparency if

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Speaker 2: it was made public and people actually knew the provisions

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Speaker 2: of it, and then you know, we can see if

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Speaker 2: China is held to account with its part of the bargain.

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Speaker 2: He'll probably try to keep it, but on better terms

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Speaker 2: and most of all ensure that China stick to their

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Speaker 2: part of it.

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Speaker 1: Tess Livingston is a senior US with The Australian and

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Speaker 1: the author of several books. You can read her work

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