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Speaker 1: Appo Cha production.

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Speaker 2: Photo record. Don't try and make you uncomfortable as.

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Speaker 3: My name is Brent Simpson. I'm the host of the

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Speaker 3: Clink podcast Stories of Redemption. I was a career criminal,

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Speaker 3: drug importer and involved in bike clubs.

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Speaker 4: Gary Jubilin's my name. I was a cop for over

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Speaker 4: thirty years in New South Wales Police. The majority of

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Speaker 4: that time was spent in homicide. I now hosts a

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Speaker 4: podcast series called Eye Catch Killers What Brings Us here?

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Speaker 3: My podcast talks about stories of redemption and to be

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Speaker 3: honest with you, mate, I wanted to sit down with

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Speaker 3: you today and actually do something no one's done before

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Speaker 3: and put the gloves on rather than take them off,

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Speaker 3: because I think it's about time the two blakes like

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Speaker 3: ourselves had to know bullshit conversation about what truly goes

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Speaker 3: on behind the scenes.

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Speaker 4: All right, well, I haven't got the problem with that.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't sure which way it was going to go,

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Speaker 4: but let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Well, you got invited up here, and firstly, I appreciate

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Speaker 3: you taking the time to come up here. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: fair enough, I bullshitted and said that it was coming

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Speaker 3: up to do a joint I guess podcast for both

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Speaker 3: of us. But I thought about it and I thought, no,

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Speaker 3: fuck that fuck. Okay, you know when has anyone ever

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Speaker 3: sat down with you and truly had it out with you?

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Speaker 3: And I guess here I am ready to have a crackback.

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Speaker 3: So for everybody out there listening, this is going to

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Speaker 3: be something a little bit different. I think to your

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Speaker 3: podcasts and that my podcast has had, and I think

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Speaker 3: the list out there would like to know a little

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Speaker 3: bit more about the who's and the whys. Why did

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Speaker 3: you for starters? Why would you want to be a cop?

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, bull shit off the table, then that's where

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Speaker 4: we're going. I can tell you why I wanted to

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Speaker 4: be a cop. I didn't join to do something good

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Speaker 4: for society. I joined because it looked like an exciting

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Speaker 4: job for me. I didn't have a problem with enforcing rules.

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Speaker 4: If rules are there, they're there for a reason. I

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Speaker 4: joined it just for the excitement. But while I found

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Speaker 4: Brent as I was doing it, I think I was

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Speaker 4: doing some good stuff.

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Speaker 3: You're saying, enjoy it for the excitement. The excitement, What

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Speaker 3: what's the excitement of locking people up? Like? I get it,

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Speaker 3: And I'll give you credit where credit's due. I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to take it away from you because I think

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Speaker 3: what you have done in the latter part of your career,

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Speaker 3: I don't know too many people that could have actually

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Speaker 3: gone through those things. There's traumatic situations, the cases that

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Speaker 3: you worked on, and the credit to you working in

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Speaker 3: a space where you brought pedophiles to the surface. You

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Speaker 3: expose them missing beautiful young children. Mate. I look, I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to not going to sit here and say

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Speaker 3: that that in any way, shape or form is something

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Speaker 3: that you know. I'm against because I commend that that

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Speaker 3: takes a lot of courage. But I also too, as

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Speaker 3: someone who's dealt with a lot of ship cops over

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Speaker 3: the years and copped a lot of ship from them.

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Speaker 3: Why what do you get out of What do you

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Speaker 3: get out of chasing bikes or career criminals? That are

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Speaker 3: you know?

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Speaker 4: What is it? No, I'm happy you asked that question

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Speaker 4: because I want to answer it. When I first started

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Speaker 4: in the cops, I was naive, young, ignorant, as we

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Speaker 4: all are when we're young fellas and young women. But

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Speaker 4: the longer I stayed in the cops, in the area

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Speaker 4: of work, I gravitated towards as a criminal investigator. I

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Speaker 4: know your background as a bikey, Like, yeah, you guys

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Speaker 4: out of the charter. You don't like cops, you don't

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Speaker 4: talk to cops. I get future.

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Speaker 3: He's made it sick. I mean, at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day, there was nothing worse than having a copper

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Speaker 3: kicking your front fucking doors in front of your kids.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Rip your house to pieces,

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Speaker 3: tell your missus to go sit in the corner, shutow mouth.

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Speaker 3: Like we talk about the way that we speak to

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Speaker 3: women and children today as men, and all this sort

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Speaker 3: of shit, and you know, like, I get it. There's

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Speaker 3: there's a way of things to be executed and done.

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Speaker 3: And obviously intel that comes in that these places may

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Speaker 3: have firearms, could be violent offenders, what have you. I

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Speaker 3: get all that, but take that out on me, don't

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Speaker 3: take that out on my family.

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Speaker 4: I make this point. I make this point because I'm

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Speaker 4: not I'm not going to defend cops across the board,

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Speaker 4: but I'm not going to throw cops under the bus

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Speaker 4: across the board. There's some good cops and there's some bad,

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Speaker 4: bad cops. Can you vouch for every member of an OMCG.

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Speaker 3: NO, And at the end of the day, I'm not

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Speaker 3: here to vouch for anybody bar myself as you are,

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Speaker 3: and look I to this day, you know, and I

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Speaker 3: swear by it. I don't personally have any involvement in

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Speaker 3: that space anymore. I don't live my life around crime

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Speaker 3: and outlaw motorcycle clubs. I still do have a lot

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Speaker 3: of respect for a lot of members, absolutely because I

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Speaker 3: know that they are genuinely good humans. I think, like

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Speaker 3: everything in life, you know, we're judged by whom we

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Speaker 3: associate with. Do I think that every man is a

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Speaker 3: bad man? Absolutely nice? Like you go to a jail, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Do you think that everybody in a jail, everybody that's

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Speaker 3: been locked up, is just fucking shit? Do you think

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Speaker 3: that they're bad? Because I know for a fact that

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Speaker 3: they're not. No.

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Speaker 4: And look, when I say I changed my mind, I'd

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Speaker 4: say I've opened my mind rather than change my mind

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Speaker 4: when I joined the cops, and I bring it back. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: if you're going to do anything in life, at least

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Speaker 4: evolve as you go through life, learn lessons. When I

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Speaker 4: joined the cops, it was pretty black and white for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: bad guys, good guys. You know, we were dressed in blue.

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Speaker 4: The bad guys. We chased and put them in jail,

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Speaker 4: move onto the next thing. But there's more that you

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Speaker 4: can do in policing like this. I want to justify police,

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Speaker 4: and I understand where you're coming from, and if you've

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Speaker 4: had your personal experiences as you talk, I had a

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Speaker 4: caved when I was in the cops, and maybe you

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Speaker 4: understand this. I'd go after you, and I'd go after

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Speaker 4: you hard. I make no apologies for it. I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: go after your family. I wouldn't humiliate you in front

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Speaker 4: of your kids.

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Speaker 3: That's not And how many years did you spend in

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Speaker 3: the police.

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Speaker 4: Force over thirty five thirty.

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Speaker 3: So you're obviously involved in organized crime and all that

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Speaker 3: sort of stuff.

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Speaker 4: The majority of my career was as a besides tactical policing,

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Speaker 4: was also major crime, major crime.

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Speaker 3: So therefore, anyone like myself with the background OMCG, organized crime, importation,

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Speaker 3: any of this sort of major crime, robbery squad and

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Speaker 3: all this sort of stuff, you would have had a

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Speaker 3: hand in. Yeah, So there would you not say that

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Speaker 3: there are heavy handed tactics that police do use that

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Speaker 3: do then affect family members.

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Speaker 4: There's consequences, there's consequences by your actions. I wouldn't set

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Speaker 4: out to humiliate a family member, to upset children. I

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Speaker 4: think there's a no go there in my book.

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Speaker 3: There there's no go in that book, across the board,

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Speaker 3: or you know, in any underworld style of living.

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Speaker 4: So I put it this way. If if there's family there,

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Speaker 4: I used to hate, Yeah, if I'm locking up someone

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Speaker 4: like you, if the parents are there or someone's there,

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Speaker 4: treating with dignity, And it was told to me, And

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Speaker 4: this is this is where I'm saying, Brent, I've learned.

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Speaker 4: I'm not making any apologies for anything I've done the cops,

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Speaker 4: but I work closely with Sarah ull A forensic psychologists

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Speaker 4: on some a lot of homicide investigations, and i'd rad

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Speaker 4: a life. I'd go off half beat and say this

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Speaker 4: Blake's done this, he must be a shithead, and yeah,

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Speaker 4: a bad guy. And she was at pain to explain

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Speaker 4: to me just because someone does something bad doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 4: make them a bad person. Yeah. I'm a bit slow

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Speaker 4: on the uptake, but that started gradually working its way

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Speaker 4: into my mind, and I saw that people do make mistakes.

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Speaker 4: We all make mistakes, and I've made mistakes. I live

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Speaker 4: with them. I learned by them. So I don't judge everyone,

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Speaker 4: but for me to slam all Bikis and or to

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Speaker 4: you to slam all cops, I think we've got to

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Speaker 4: break it down because I'm not going to vouch for

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Speaker 4: every cop, but I will vouch for the ones that

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Speaker 4: I know. There's the way I say employees, I've met

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Speaker 4: some of the most impressive people in my life and

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Speaker 4: some of the most drop kicks in my life within

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Speaker 4: that organization. The antagonism between omcgs and cops. I was

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Speaker 4: in the gang squad. I was a detective inspector in

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Speaker 4: the gang squad right around the time just set the

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Speaker 4: period of time where that stuff happened between the common

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Speaker 4: Cero's and the Hells Angels at the airport. So I

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Speaker 4: saw what was going on, I think, and you might

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Speaker 4: have a different view. There was a perception that what

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Speaker 4: goes on in OMCG gang stays within the gangs, and

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Speaker 4: innocent people don't get caught up. That's where the line

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Speaker 4: was crossed, and I think it changed the landscape forever

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Speaker 4: in law enforcement and OMCGS. When that ship went down

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Speaker 4: in the airport, you can't have people bashed like that

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Speaker 4: in a public, public place and changed the landscape. But

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Speaker 4: I during my career, like working gang squad or when

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Speaker 4: I was in homicide paths across with OMCG members individually,

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Speaker 4: I've got to sit down. I've got to say, I

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Speaker 4: sit down, and quite often there's a bit of respect

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Speaker 4: for the way that they live their life, so there's

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Speaker 4: not that antagonism. But when if you're coming at me

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Speaker 4: as in fuck you you're a cop, we hate cops, well,

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Speaker 4: stupid me is going to go, well, fuck you, I

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Speaker 4: hate you too, and it escalates that way. I think, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't think it serves either side very well.

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Speaker 3: I know, for me personally, and I make this fairly clear,

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Speaker 3: I am and have no longer been a part of

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Speaker 3: OMCG lifestyle now for a long long time. I think

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Speaker 3: twenty and ten twenty eleven was my final days of

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Speaker 3: ever donning a set of colors. I you know, as

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Speaker 3: I said, to this day, still hold a lot of

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Speaker 3: regard and respect for a lot of great men whom

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Speaker 3: I grew up with as seniors or you know, people

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Speaker 3: I looked up to. Someone who didn't have family, who

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Speaker 3: didn't have brothers, who was brought around a strong brotherhood

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Speaker 3: and a camaraderie. I can't speak for today, and I'm

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Speaker 3: not about to speak for today, so I make no

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Speaker 3: words negative or positive in reference to how things are

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Speaker 3: structured today. I'm only speaking from my perspective of when

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Speaker 3: I was what I see today. I don't agree with

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Speaker 3: a lot of it. You talk about crossing that line,

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Speaker 3: I feel that the line's got cross lost well and

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Speaker 3: truly some time ago. To be specific. I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to sort of sit here and throw those dates or

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Speaker 3: times or actions into place, because I don't feel that

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Speaker 3: that's something that I need to touch on. But I

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Speaker 3: have to agree that the days of you know, publicly

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Speaker 3: taking action for things that are happening within certain spaces,

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Speaker 3: they were always done out of mind, out of sight,

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Speaker 3: so to speak. It was never involved with women, it

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Speaker 3: was never involved with children, was never done within a workplace. Today,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that those values align. I will say

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Speaker 3: that much. And once again, that's just me seeing things

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Speaker 3: as they are. That's not me speaking factually because I'm

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Speaker 3: not involved in the lifestyle. You're an excop, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of things that we're seeing today that

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Speaker 3: the way that the police are dealing with organized crime

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Speaker 3: very different to obviously the time when you were actively

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Speaker 3: in the force and me actively as a club member.

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Speaker 3: I mean, how do you see that today and where

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Speaker 3: it's at.

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Speaker 4: I got to say, and this is not swinging a

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Speaker 4: vote here for law enforcement, but I reckon it would

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Speaker 4: be a hard gig being ak trying to make a

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Speaker 4: dollar these days with technology the way it is seen

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Speaker 4: what's happened now. I don't know they'll shift their focus

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Speaker 4: when I say they are talking collectively, it doesn't have

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Speaker 4: to be OMCG, any sort of organized crime situation, shift

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Speaker 4: their attention on how they're going to do it. But

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't like to be trying to commit a crime

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Speaker 4: these days. I think the pendulum swung in front in

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Speaker 4: favor of law enforcement. With all the technology. You walk

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Speaker 4: out on the street now and yeah, we can pretty

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Speaker 4: well track you.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree, And to be honest with you, it

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Speaker 3: fathoms me because I sit back now and you know

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Speaker 3: you often ponder on the how's the wires and the waves,

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Speaker 3: and to me, when you weigh it up, I think,

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Speaker 3: to myself, no matter what the maybe the short reward

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Speaker 3: would be long term, you're fucked. Technology has caught up

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Speaker 3: so much and I think we see this from the

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Speaker 3: latest with the ghost without going down that rabbit hole

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Speaker 3: and on all this sort of stuff. You know, Like,

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Speaker 3: I just think that the days are gone of being

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Speaker 3: able to be under the radar, you know, making an

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Speaker 3: earn in a way that was I guess non legal

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Speaker 3: if you will.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, the world, the world has changed. I missed

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Speaker 4: aspects of it. I like the world, you know, I

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Speaker 4: embraced technology, or that technology got myself in the trouble

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Speaker 4: recording a conversation on the phone.

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Speaker 3: But so just on that, are you are you classed

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Speaker 3: as a criminal?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, well hang on, hang on, so Gary jubilant, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: the ones, the glorified detective that did some amazing things

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Speaker 5: has now been seen to be classed as someone with

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Speaker 5: a criminal conviction.

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Speaker 4: I've got and it hit me. It hit me now

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Speaker 4: that you've you've dug deep, now haven't your brain?

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Speaker 3: I say this is a podcast because of the Q

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Speaker 3: which I'm thinking you are. You know, we all do

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Speaker 3: our podcast and we all make them all all pretty

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Speaker 3: and nice, and we do things. And although this is

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Speaker 3: not at once again uncensored, it's the clink, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're keeping it very open, very real, unscripted,

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Speaker 3: but I have to ask the question, and because I'm

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Speaker 3: sure there are so many people who are listening to

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Speaker 3: this today and go, yeah, okay, well you've got Sime

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Speaker 3: their interview and Gary jubilant ex detective will hang on

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Speaker 3: a sec. What makes you so much different to me

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Speaker 3: and everybody else out there now that has a criminal record.

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Speaker 4: Well, I just say, I don't have a problem with

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Speaker 4: you. You're going hard because if you don't go hard, I can't.

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Speaker 4: I can't defend myself. So yeah, yeah, I'm a convicted criminal,

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Speaker 4: and I get called that on social media and comments there.

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Speaker 4: The other day, I wanted to work over in America

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Speaker 4: to do some stuff for the podcast. I had the

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Speaker 4: visa rejected because I'm I don't know what and the

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Speaker 4: tourist criminal.

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Speaker 3: How does that feel? Well? Does that feel good? I

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Speaker 3: compan it serious, mate, because I can tell you how

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Speaker 3: I fucking feels when my wife's threatened and told that

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Speaker 3: she's going to go back to New Zealand and I

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Speaker 3: won't see my kids because I can never get into

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Speaker 3: New Zealand because I have no right due to my

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Speaker 3: ex gang affiliations and criminality. You're someone who's upheld the law.

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Speaker 3: If that's corrected, I say that right upheld it upheld

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Speaker 3: up over that I'll get corrected somewhere along joke's aside,

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Speaker 3: You're now sitting in the same boat as many of

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Speaker 3: us with criminal convictions.

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Speaker 4: Well, okay, As I said, life's a learning process, and

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Speaker 4: I wind it back even even further when I was

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Speaker 4: first charge and when I had to appear at court

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Speaker 4: and when I was fighting it. I thought it hard

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Speaker 4: in court. And I make no apologies for what I did.

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Speaker 4: I make no apologies for the stance.

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Speaker 3: I know. I'm a very sorry person. Can you make

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Speaker 3: fuck all apologies? I was about the tenth time I've

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Speaker 3: heard you so far by fifteen minutes already that you

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Speaker 3: make no apology.

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Speaker 4: I apologize all the time. But I owned my shit,

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Speaker 4: and I owned what I did. But what I wanted

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Speaker 4: to say is that I, for the first time felt

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Speaker 4: what it was like having the weight of the whole

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Speaker 4: state coming after you, the resources of the police coming

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Speaker 4: after you, and I got to say, it felt quite intimidating.

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Speaker 4: And I'm a person that was set up probably best

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Speaker 4: out of anyone to handle that situation, in that the

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Speaker 4: allegations weren't something horrendous. It wasn't sort of something to

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Speaker 4: be ashamed of. The consequences weren't extreme. I wasn't going

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Speaker 4: to be locked away for the next twenty years. But

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Speaker 4: having the full resources of the state coming after you,

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Speaker 4: I felt how if it was, And it made me

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Speaker 4: reflect on stuff that I've done in the cops again,

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Speaker 4: not looking back and going and maybe I shouldn't have

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Speaker 4: done that, but more of an understanding if it was

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Speaker 4: someone like you, what it feels like if you've got

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Speaker 4: charges coming, it's ship and then you've got to go

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Speaker 4: face the court and all this crap that goes in

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Speaker 4: with the court and the brief of evidence, and then

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Speaker 4: you've got to serve the brief and then the response

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Speaker 4: and all the money that you spend.

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Speaker 3: So no favors in reference to, you know, having to

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Speaker 3: seek lawyers or leading later anything like this, just because

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Speaker 3: you once are serving off none of that. You basically

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Speaker 3: now I've been stripped of anything other than just being

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Speaker 3: Joe's citizen who's now been charged, has a criminal record

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Speaker 3: and now must front the courts.

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Speaker 4: Charge convicted and front front the courts. But if anything,

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Speaker 4: and I tried to take positives from negatives and trust

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Speaker 4: me that there was low points when that happened. I

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Speaker 4: was in the thick of my career. I was enjoying

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Speaker 4: what I was doing. I had the passion and it

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Speaker 4: was taken away from me overnight. So there was a

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Speaker 4: low point. But then people smart other than me, going well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: wake up to yourself. It's not the end of the world.

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Speaker 4: And I see what some other people are being through

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Speaker 4: the people that the families are victims of homicides and

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Speaker 4: different things, and I think, well, you've been a bit

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Speaker 4: of a softy here, like it's not that bad. Just

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Speaker 4: get on with your life. And that's that's what I've

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Speaker 4: chosen to do. But it has changed changed my thinking,

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Speaker 4: and yeah, I'd like to think I'm a better person

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Speaker 4: for it. I don't want to give credit to any

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Speaker 4: of those idiots that caused all this drama on me,

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Speaker 4: but I think I'm a better person for it. It's

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Speaker 4: a more understanding. I've looked at your side of life,

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Speaker 4: people like yourself, and I'm not probably as judgmental as

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Speaker 4: I perhaps was when I was in the cops, which

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Speaker 4: I think is a good thing.

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Speaker 3: I do too, and I can't wait to have you know.

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Speaker 3: Our part of this podcast move into that stage because

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Speaker 3: there's some things that you have done and are doing there.

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Speaker 3: I will leave all open for you. I talk about it, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's important because you know, here you

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Speaker 3: are one minute being that cop that's you know, literally

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Speaker 3: putting people in jail. And as I said, we will

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Speaker 3: touch on it shortly. I just want to and look.

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Speaker 3: Asked if I can't go down this road. Was this

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Speaker 3: in reference your charges to a very sensitive case involving

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Speaker 3: a young person who was missing. Yeah. I don't want

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Speaker 3: to descart for the respect of the families and someone

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Speaker 3: saying names or when anything like that, but as someone

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Speaker 3: who is a moralistic man and somebody whom came from

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Speaker 3: a code and still lives by a code, it's just

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Speaker 3: how it is. I personally don't look at you in

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Speaker 3: that respect for what you have been alleged to have done.

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Speaker 3: You were trying to protect and get to the bottom

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Speaker 3: of an unsolved matter that related to a child, as

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Speaker 3: a father, as a human, I can't. I can't sit

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Speaker 3: here and call you a piece of shit, your weak dog,

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Speaker 3: and all this sort of shit, Like if we had

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Speaker 3: met fifteen years ago and you were in the cops

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Speaker 3: and you fary long concern. You are just a low cunt,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. That would have been an

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Speaker 3: interesting well there was every chance, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: But you do why you've been charged and no longer

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Speaker 3: are you any way, shape or form attached to any

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Speaker 3: police service. You're a podcaster who has a background as

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Speaker 3: I am. I'm not a criminal. I have no IMC

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Speaker 3: connection as such. Today I'm a father and a podcaster

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Speaker 3: and a hard working man. So we're on even ground there.

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Speaker 3: But that's that's a tough call to see why you've

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Speaker 3: now got a criminal record.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look like life's not not fair. Well, I'll mentioned

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Speaker 4: the case because it's public record. That was three year

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Speaker 4: old whim Tyrell, the young boy in the spider Man

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Speaker 4: and suit that disappeared up at Benerroon.

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Speaker 3: Drive breaking absolutely destray.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I ran the investigation for four years. I

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Speaker 4: took it out over five months after he disappeared and

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Speaker 4: headed up and then I was taken off because I

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Speaker 4: was recording a conversation on telephone. On my telephone, I

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Speaker 4: didn't hide with a person of interest, a person involved

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Speaker 4: in that investigation that I wanted to speak to that

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Speaker 4: I might also add, had lawfully approved listening devices in

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Speaker 4: his house. So that's without getting in the nitty gritty

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Speaker 4: of the offenses. And you know, I'm putting people before

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Speaker 4: the court, so I'd be a bit hypocritically if I

400
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Speaker 4: don't accept the decision of the court. You know, my

401
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,961
Speaker 4: whole career was putting people before the court. So I

402
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,721
Speaker 4: just got to cop it on the chin what I say.

403
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Speaker 4: I'm not ashamed of it. That's you know, I'm not

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Speaker 4: ashamed of what I did. I didn't do it for

405
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Speaker 4: any any ulterior motive. I'm not some I just want

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Speaker 4: to touch it.

407
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Speaker 3: I don't think you should be ashamed like I do

408
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Speaker 3: find it personally. I think there'd be a lot of

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Speaker 3: people out there that what you were doing was a

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Speaker 3: very honorable thing. In reference to finding answers about young

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Speaker 3: Will Will it will.

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Speaker 4: Entire you got to like there's because I was in

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Speaker 4: the cops before the Royal Commission came through. I'm talking

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Speaker 4: New South Wales, so I was working in the arm

415
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Speaker 4: told up squad and there's a lot of shame that

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Speaker 4: came out of the Royal Commission about stuff that cops

417
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Speaker 4: were doing. And I know in Queensland corruption and things

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Speaker 4: that came out, So I understand what can happen is

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Speaker 4: if you take shortcuts or just go one step too far.

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Speaker 4: So I understand there become a slippery slide and you

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Speaker 4: lose your moral compass. I've seen it because I worked

422
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Speaker 4: in major crime before the Royal Commission came through, so

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Speaker 4: I know the impact of it. So what I did

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Speaker 4: on the Tyoral investigation, I don't believe that it was

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Speaker 4: a case of being corrupt. I was doing what I

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Speaker 4: thought needed to be done to find out what happened

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Speaker 4: to a three year old child disappeared. And I might

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Speaker 4: add still to this day, ten years down the track,

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Speaker 4: and this is a sad part about it. We still

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Speaker 4: don't know what's happened in the wind. Absolutely and if

431
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,921
Speaker 4: one thing you say, I have no regrets. So one

432
00:23:12,921 --> 00:23:17,801
Speaker 4: regret I've got is that the controversy that I've been

433
00:23:17,801 --> 00:23:21,121
Speaker 4: called up with, the infighting between the police, really our

434
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:24,001
Speaker 4: focus should be on finding William Tyrol. Like I'm not

435
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 4: apologizing for what I've done, but when I say, you know,

436
00:23:27,521 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 4: all this in fighting or all the games that are

437
00:23:30,801 --> 00:23:33,001
Speaker 4: going on within the police, it's a shame that we're

438
00:23:33,041 --> 00:23:35,041
Speaker 4: not all just heading in the same direction trying to

439
00:23:35,041 --> 00:23:37,681
Speaker 4: find out what happened to Wiim. But can I ask

440
00:23:37,721 --> 00:23:41,161
Speaker 4: you some questions now now that you've.

441
00:23:40,561 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 3: Just let me finish for a second, because likes on

442
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,561
Speaker 3: the bandwagon of the far all right, Yeah, and you're

443
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,241
Speaker 3: someone who the first person been to literally sit down

444
00:23:49,281 --> 00:23:52,561
Speaker 3: with and chew because normally it's me on the other

445
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 3: end of it getting hammered by your ex mates. Thinking

446
00:23:55,801 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 3: about the situation and all the values and the trust

447
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 3: that you had within your beliefs of your career, do

448
00:24:03,281 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 3: you feel that there's some part of corruption still within

449
00:24:07,921 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 3: that sector?

450
00:24:09,761 --> 00:24:12,801
Speaker 4: The way I look at corruption these specially after your experience,

451
00:24:13,041 --> 00:24:17,521
Speaker 4: if you're not properly resourcing an investigation, if your focus

452
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,601
Speaker 4: is not serving the public, I think that's as corrupt

453
00:24:20,761 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: as corruption was in the pre where people were taking

454
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,321
Speaker 4: dollars or people taking backrives and that, or letting people

455
00:24:27,321 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 4: get off or fudging brufs, all that corruption that was exposed.

456
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 4: That's bad. But I think if you underresource things and

457
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,961
Speaker 4: don't focus on what the public's expectation are or give

458
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,041
Speaker 4: crime figures out there, I think that's just as bad

459
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,001
Speaker 4: as corruption. So I reckon policing. This is my take

460
00:24:46,041 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 4: on policing and I'm not saying this to pissing anyone's pockets,

461
00:24:51,441 --> 00:24:55,241
Speaker 4: but I'm saying we're public servants. As a public servant,

462
00:24:55,241 --> 00:24:57,681
Speaker 4: that's pretty easy. What you're meant to do, You're meant

463
00:24:57,721 --> 00:25:00,561
Speaker 4: to serve the public. So a police force should be

464
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,561
Speaker 4: serving the public. What I see in policing organizations and

465
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 4: they can't attract cops at the moment across the country,

466
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,441
Speaker 4: which is really sad because I think we're also better

467
00:25:08,441 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 4: if you've got good cops. Is that there's people that

468
00:25:11,001 --> 00:25:13,041
Speaker 4: are caught up with their own agenda, seeing what they

469
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,281
Speaker 4: can take from the cops, not what they can give

470
00:25:15,281 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 4: to the cops. I always thought we're in there to

471
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,721
Speaker 4: help the community, do the right thing, do the work.

472
00:25:20,761 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 4: That was my focus, the focus of the people I

473
00:25:23,681 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 4: looked up to, the people I worked with, I respected,

474
00:25:26,561 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 4: that's what we wanted to do. But there were certain

475
00:25:28,681 --> 00:25:31,001
Speaker 4: individuals that were just focused on what can I get

476
00:25:31,041 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 4: out of the cops, how can I get promoted, what

477
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,241
Speaker 4: can I get from this, which I think that's where

478
00:25:35,241 --> 00:25:38,281
Speaker 4: it goes wrong. But corruption, I don't know. I've been

479
00:25:38,441 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 4: I have limited contact with policing now. Sadly that was

480
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,561
Speaker 4: sort of cut off from me when I was charged

481
00:25:47,561 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 4: and convicted. But it saddens me that you're not getting

482
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,361
Speaker 4: good people in there because.

483
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:55,401
Speaker 3: Are you looked at though by the police force now

484
00:25:55,481 --> 00:25:57,281
Speaker 3: as another criminal.

485
00:25:57,961 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 4: Certain members of New South Wales Police. But collectively the

486
00:26:01,201 --> 00:26:04,521
Speaker 4: amount of support I get across the board is quite humbling.

487
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 4: Might just be a simple thing of someone coming up

488
00:26:07,921 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: to me in the street and saying something and the

489
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 4: irony of yeah, that I'm judged by certain people within

490
00:26:16,241 --> 00:26:18,281
Speaker 4: New South Wales Police, not the whole of New South

491
00:26:18,281 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: Wales Police, but other police forces don't seem to have

492
00:26:20,961 --> 00:26:22,721
Speaker 4: a problem with me or Laura.

493
00:26:22,481 --> 00:26:26,961
Speaker 3: And I'll just basically clearly say to you that you know,

494
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:32,321
Speaker 3: I have nothing but respect for what you were trying

495
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:35,241
Speaker 3: to achieve. And I feel that you know, any low

496
00:26:35,281 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 3: piece of shit out there that's gone and done what

497
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,761
Speaker 3: they've done to any child, people like yourself, they need

498
00:26:41,801 --> 00:26:43,721
Speaker 3: more of to be able to take action. And we

499
00:26:44,481 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: talk about you know, crime's atrocities based around you know,

500
00:26:48,961 --> 00:26:52,801
Speaker 3: children and pedophiles, and as someone who I am a

501
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,801
Speaker 3: survivor of sexual abuse and you know, for me it's

502
00:26:57,801 --> 00:27:02,161
Speaker 3: been very traumatic. Forty eight years of more sorry, forty

503
00:27:02,201 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 3: four years of my life is where it started. So

504
00:27:04,561 --> 00:27:07,281
Speaker 3: you know, when I see somebody out there going into

505
00:27:07,321 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: bat to try and prevent that from happening, or bring

506
00:27:12,041 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: justice to a scumbag like that, how can I not

507
00:27:16,721 --> 00:27:20,041
Speaker 3: sort of, I guess look at it from a productive

508
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: point of view. Yeah, okay, you're a cop. I was

509
00:27:22,681 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: a crim But at the end of the day, yeah,

510
00:27:25,481 --> 00:27:28,681
Speaker 3: you can't go to jail and a pedophile walk through

511
00:27:28,721 --> 00:27:30,561
Speaker 3: the main and get a pat on the back and

512
00:27:30,561 --> 00:27:32,561
Speaker 3: a shake and a hand and a huk. It just

513
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 3: doesn't happen. So what's the difference, Yeah, you know what

514
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:35,961
Speaker 3: I mean?

515
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,721
Speaker 4: Well, I do know what you mean, and you're quite right.

516
00:27:40,241 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 4: There's crimes and there's crimes, and when you're talking to

517
00:27:42,681 --> 00:27:46,521
Speaker 4: crime on a child, there's no mitigating circumstances, and that

518
00:27:46,681 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 4: no excuse whatsoever you say, I don't have regrets or

519
00:27:50,241 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 4: don't say sorry. My regret is if I knew I

520
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 4: was going to be taken off in the manner I was,

521
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,761
Speaker 4: I would have gone harder. Instead of working twenty hours

522
00:27:56,761 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: a day, I would have worked twenty two hours a day.

523
00:27:58,721 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 4: Like this sits with me that this is unresolved, unresolved issue.

524
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,761
Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm oping the people who are working on it. Now,

525
00:28:06,921 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 4: you come up with something and get it, get a result,

526
00:28:09,561 --> 00:28:13,401
Speaker 4: because we need to need to get that result. But yeah,

527
00:28:13,801 --> 00:28:18,961
Speaker 4: policing and what I wanted to ask you still.

528
00:28:20,521 --> 00:28:23,041
Speaker 3: Go for it, I said the other I'd copy the

529
00:28:23,241 --> 00:28:24,401
Speaker 3: literally like the punt.

530
00:28:25,921 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 4: The with with o mcgs and members and when I

531
00:28:32,521 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 4: do get to meet them, not collectively where it's a

532
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 4: group of cops and a group of bikes because everyone's

533
00:28:37,761 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 4: bridged up and no one's really communicating, but when I've

534
00:28:40,321 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 4: sat down actually spoken to some blakes or blokes I

535
00:28:43,241 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 4: know socially, nothing to do with the cops. I just

536
00:28:45,321 --> 00:28:48,841
Speaker 4: know them in my in my world, we've got a

537
00:28:48,881 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 4: lot in common. There's there's a lot in common. But

538
00:28:52,761 --> 00:28:55,601
Speaker 4: you guys have this code where you just got to

539
00:28:55,641 --> 00:29:00,921
Speaker 4: hate us. Now, where where does that come from?

540
00:29:01,281 --> 00:29:03,241
Speaker 3: Okay, so let me just take it a step back

541
00:29:03,281 --> 00:29:07,001
Speaker 3: even further. Few years so before a lot of members,

542
00:29:07,161 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: and I say this as a general thing because I

543
00:29:10,081 --> 00:29:13,321
Speaker 3: can there's a lot of members out there who end

544
00:29:13,441 --> 00:29:17,361
Speaker 3: up joining clubs because of one a camaraderie, our brotherhood.

545
00:29:17,401 --> 00:29:20,121
Speaker 3: And I'm speaking of when I came in. I'm forty eight.

546
00:29:20,161 --> 00:29:22,681
Speaker 3: I was involved since I was seventeen, eighteen, I started

547
00:29:22,681 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: hanging around clubs. I was a streat kid from Campbelltown,

548
00:29:27,201 --> 00:29:30,521
Speaker 3: and you know, back then there was the ReBs that

549
00:29:30,561 --> 00:29:33,321
Speaker 3: were very very strong, the bannets, and you know in

550
00:29:33,361 --> 00:29:36,361
Speaker 3: that inner city sort of in a Western Sydney sort

551
00:29:36,361 --> 00:29:40,561
Speaker 3: of area. As a young person growing up on the streets,

552
00:29:42,201 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 3: it was tough. It was hard, you know, what you

553
00:29:46,801 --> 00:29:48,601
Speaker 3: had to do to just keep shoes on your feet.

554
00:29:49,761 --> 00:29:52,681
Speaker 3: As you're growing up, you're doing whatever you're doing to

555
00:29:52,761 --> 00:29:55,521
Speaker 3: make money to survive. Then all of a sudden there's

556
00:29:55,521 --> 00:29:58,681
Speaker 3: a bit of street cred. So you know, at that stage,

557
00:29:58,721 --> 00:30:01,601
Speaker 3: you're not looking at becoming a member of an OMCG.

558
00:30:02,441 --> 00:30:06,601
Speaker 3: It's an evulsion of your circ ccumstances, your lifestyle. And

559
00:30:06,961 --> 00:30:09,041
Speaker 3: this is what a lot of people don't understand. There's

560
00:30:09,041 --> 00:30:12,321
Speaker 3: a lot more underlying to so many members, a lot

561
00:30:12,321 --> 00:30:14,801
Speaker 3: of traumas, a lot of things that members don't talk about.

562
00:30:14,841 --> 00:30:17,361
Speaker 3: There's a lot of hardened men there that have been

563
00:30:17,441 --> 00:30:22,561
Speaker 3: hurt and broken as young men, young boys. And I'm

564
00:30:22,641 --> 00:30:25,321
Speaker 3: open to speak about my own journey in respect to that.

565
00:30:25,441 --> 00:30:27,801
Speaker 3: You know, like I always said that as a sergeant,

566
00:30:27,841 --> 00:30:31,321
Speaker 3: I was always willing and able to do and go

567
00:30:31,881 --> 00:30:35,841
Speaker 3: whatever was dealt with needed to be done. But stepping

568
00:30:35,881 --> 00:30:38,001
Speaker 3: away from that and looking at me as a man

569
00:30:38,401 --> 00:30:41,201
Speaker 3: and understanding who I was. I was a scared little

570
00:30:41,241 --> 00:30:43,921
Speaker 3: boy inside a set of colors. Now, the colors never

571
00:30:43,961 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 3: ever made the member. Today, I can't say once again

572
00:30:47,521 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: that that may be how it is. But back in

573
00:30:50,521 --> 00:30:52,801
Speaker 3: the day, you had to be able to stand on

574
00:30:52,881 --> 00:30:55,161
Speaker 3: your own two feet. It didn't just come to you.

575
00:30:55,201 --> 00:30:57,361
Speaker 3: Weren't just handed a set of colors. It had to

576
00:30:57,401 --> 00:31:00,361
Speaker 3: come with a lot of hard work and you standing

577
00:31:00,441 --> 00:31:04,801
Speaker 3: up as a strong person, a reputable person. Someone could

578
00:31:05,241 --> 00:31:07,201
Speaker 3: turn to your brother and know you've got your brother's back.

579
00:31:07,241 --> 00:31:11,161
Speaker 3: Your brother could rely on you. So much more involved

580
00:31:11,161 --> 00:31:15,201
Speaker 3: than what the public perceives it to be. It wasn't

581
00:31:15,241 --> 00:31:18,001
Speaker 3: always based around money. You couldn't buy your way in.

582
00:31:18,361 --> 00:31:19,841
Speaker 3: You know, you had to earn it. A lot of

583
00:31:19,881 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 3: brothers had died over the years, you know, Like you know,

584
00:31:23,561 --> 00:31:25,361
Speaker 3: for you to wear a set of colors that have

585
00:31:25,441 --> 00:31:28,281
Speaker 3: been worn by men that had lost their lives, that's huge.

586
00:31:28,801 --> 00:31:32,161
Speaker 3: So you know, where does the hatred come into all that?

587
00:31:33,081 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: The police would be so hens on back then, Like

588
00:31:37,001 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 3: I can tell you now, Campbelltown Police Station was rife

589
00:31:39,961 --> 00:31:42,321
Speaker 3: with it they would flog the fuck out of you.

590
00:31:42,521 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: This is before they brought in all the cameras. There

591
00:31:44,521 --> 00:31:47,481
Speaker 3: was that many black spots in that police station. There

592
00:31:47,561 --> 00:31:50,481
Speaker 3: was one sergeant that I knew that knew my story

593
00:31:50,721 --> 00:31:53,601
Speaker 3: and he's passed on now, and I'll give credit to him.

594
00:31:54,121 --> 00:31:56,721
Speaker 3: He would whenever I knew he was on, there was

595
00:31:56,801 --> 00:32:00,121
Speaker 3: every chance that I would get bail because he knew

596
00:32:00,161 --> 00:32:02,561
Speaker 3: that I had nothing, and you know, he knew I

597
00:32:02,601 --> 00:32:04,841
Speaker 3: was copping a hard time. I was a shit bag.

598
00:32:05,401 --> 00:32:07,761
Speaker 3: I was doing what I was doing. Don't worry about that.

599
00:32:07,921 --> 00:32:09,801
Speaker 3: I won't deny that, you know what I mean, Like,

600
00:32:10,481 --> 00:32:13,641
Speaker 3: for what I've been charged with, I'm guilty of it.

601
00:32:14,041 --> 00:32:18,921
Speaker 3: There's no denial of that to date. Let me just

602
00:32:18,961 --> 00:32:23,881
Speaker 3: put that in there before. That's just about to date.

603
00:32:24,001 --> 00:32:25,961
Speaker 3: I just want to put that on the fucking record

604
00:32:26,681 --> 00:32:31,361
Speaker 3: from there. That's not even but hear me out. So therefore,

605
00:32:31,441 --> 00:32:33,601
Speaker 3: there was a lot of a lot of heavy handedness,

606
00:32:33,601 --> 00:32:35,041
Speaker 3: a lot of flog, and a lot of you know,

607
00:32:35,081 --> 00:32:36,601
Speaker 3: like you get put in the back of the bullwag

608
00:32:36,641 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 3: and you'd be having your head punched in while your

609
00:32:38,481 --> 00:32:41,161
Speaker 3: hands are cuffed behind your back. Now, you can't cuff

610
00:32:41,281 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: juveniles with their hands behind their back back then they would,

611
00:32:44,601 --> 00:32:47,161
Speaker 3: they'd flog the fuck out of you. They'd drag you through,

612
00:32:47,241 --> 00:32:50,401
Speaker 3: throw your head first into the cells like the ship

613
00:32:50,481 --> 00:32:55,041
Speaker 3: that we used to cop was unbelievable. Now people think

614
00:32:55,081 --> 00:32:59,161
Speaker 3: that that's all, that's all bullshit. Thankfully, a lot of

615
00:32:59,161 --> 00:33:02,881
Speaker 3: commissions that have brought all this factual evidence to surface,

616
00:33:03,561 --> 00:33:08,081
Speaker 3: and the heavy handedness of plea has been exposed. To

617
00:33:08,161 --> 00:33:12,521
Speaker 3: answer a question, that's where the hatred begins. Why would

618
00:33:12,521 --> 00:33:14,921
Speaker 3: I respect? Walking down the street some prick that I

619
00:33:15,041 --> 00:33:17,881
Speaker 3: know that's taken me in handcuffed behind my back, flogged

620
00:33:17,881 --> 00:33:19,881
Speaker 3: the fuck out of me, laughed at me in front

621
00:33:19,881 --> 00:33:22,281
Speaker 3: of his colleagues, and they've all sat there and thought

622
00:33:22,281 --> 00:33:25,881
Speaker 3: it was funny, kicking me while I'm down, watching me screaming,

623
00:33:26,161 --> 00:33:29,321
Speaker 3: and at that case, as a young kid, sometimes in tears,

624
00:33:29,361 --> 00:33:34,721
Speaker 3: begging them's to stop. Why would I respect? And then

625
00:33:34,761 --> 00:33:39,041
Speaker 3: it grows and it becomes more hatred than obviously that

626
00:33:39,121 --> 00:33:39,761
Speaker 3: next level.

627
00:33:39,841 --> 00:33:40,801
Speaker 4: Okay, you move.

628
00:33:40,721 --> 00:33:43,001
Speaker 3: Into that sort of from that street cred, you're moving

629
00:33:43,041 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: into maybe a space of becoming a nom or a

630
00:33:46,241 --> 00:33:50,521
Speaker 3: hangaround for a club. You naturally already have that hatred

631
00:33:50,561 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 3: for the law. You know, you talk about that one percent.

632
00:33:53,921 --> 00:33:58,121
Speaker 3: Then I've been molded into become that one percenter, that

633
00:33:58,241 --> 00:34:01,641
Speaker 3: person that is gonna despise you as a cop or

634
00:34:01,681 --> 00:34:03,841
Speaker 3: you as as a law authority.

635
00:34:04,321 --> 00:34:06,441
Speaker 4: Look when you when you explain it that way, Brent,

636
00:34:06,561 --> 00:34:09,841
Speaker 4: I get it, and I just I break it down

637
00:34:09,841 --> 00:34:13,041
Speaker 4: in my simple mind, how would I react if that situation,

638
00:34:13,281 --> 00:34:16,441
Speaker 4: if anyone flogged me or added me, they've got an

639
00:34:16,521 --> 00:34:19,041
Speaker 4: enemy for life. No, no, if so, Bus Garry.

640
00:34:19,121 --> 00:34:21,041
Speaker 3: That's how it was. And these I'm not saying this

641
00:34:21,281 --> 00:34:24,161
Speaker 3: just to just to pipe up or hype up this

642
00:34:24,161 --> 00:34:27,161
Speaker 3: this this chat. These are facts. This has been proven

643
00:34:27,201 --> 00:34:31,041
Speaker 3: beyond doubt that these acts took place, especially you know,

644
00:34:31,121 --> 00:34:33,361
Speaker 3: and I'm not just talking about Cammelltown Police Station. This

645
00:34:33,401 --> 00:34:36,081
Speaker 3: is across the nation. You know, the injustices that have

646
00:34:36,161 --> 00:34:40,321
Speaker 3: happened over the years to young persons which have later

647
00:34:40,401 --> 00:34:44,481
Speaker 3: become some of our most notorious criminals. You know, I

648
00:34:44,521 --> 00:34:50,241
Speaker 3: did an interview with Bernie Matthews. You know, God bless

649
00:34:50,241 --> 00:34:53,641
Speaker 3: his soul, a beautiful man, a very intellectual man who

650
00:34:53,761 --> 00:34:56,961
Speaker 3: I had the honor of having on my podcast to clink.

651
00:34:57,841 --> 00:35:01,761
Speaker 3: He was in at Grafton. Now, Grafton was the old

652
00:35:02,121 --> 00:35:05,321
Speaker 3: sort of place for the heaviest as well. I guess

653
00:35:05,321 --> 00:35:07,081
Speaker 3: what Golden Supermax.

654
00:35:06,641 --> 00:35:08,881
Speaker 4: Was is sorry in its day.

655
00:35:09,361 --> 00:35:12,241
Speaker 3: You know, they'd literally come off the truck, they were beaten,

656
00:35:12,481 --> 00:35:16,641
Speaker 3: they were strip naked. Like the atrocities that occurred to

657
00:35:16,721 --> 00:35:22,001
Speaker 3: those inmates. He said to me at one stage there,

658
00:35:22,041 --> 00:35:24,161
Speaker 3: I think there was maybe one out of that wing

659
00:35:24,281 --> 00:35:26,601
Speaker 3: or one out of those say, for example, I think

660
00:35:26,641 --> 00:35:28,361
Speaker 3: they might have been falling. Don't quote me on that.

661
00:35:28,441 --> 00:35:33,881
Speaker 3: The exact number that did not become a murderer or

662
00:35:34,201 --> 00:35:39,961
Speaker 3: some crime of atrocity or some horrific crime that they

663
00:35:40,001 --> 00:35:46,441
Speaker 3: committed down the track, why, well, yeah, because they hated

664
00:35:46,481 --> 00:35:50,561
Speaker 3: the system, they hated the authority. But why can you

665
00:35:50,641 --> 00:35:53,081
Speaker 3: think about it? If they were put there because they

666
00:35:53,081 --> 00:35:58,081
Speaker 3: were uncontrollable or unmanageable, the logic behind it would be

667
00:35:58,161 --> 00:36:01,641
Speaker 3: not to fuck them up even more, break the cycle.

668
00:36:02,561 --> 00:36:05,721
Speaker 4: Well, I want to talk about that because it's something,

669
00:36:05,801 --> 00:36:09,321
Speaker 4: but it's funny. You should mention Bernie Matthews because I

670
00:36:09,321 --> 00:36:12,041
Speaker 4: think we've found some common ground here. I got to

671
00:36:12,161 --> 00:36:14,441
Speaker 4: know Bernie around the same time I got out of

672
00:36:14,441 --> 00:36:17,761
Speaker 4: the cops. He just got out of prison. Someone put

673
00:36:17,801 --> 00:36:20,001
Speaker 4: us in contact together. We met. That was a really

674
00:36:20,041 --> 00:36:22,601
Speaker 4: awkward meeting. I went to his place up at Liftgow.

675
00:36:22,641 --> 00:36:24,921
Speaker 4: I think it was seeing there He's looking at me.

676
00:36:25,001 --> 00:36:27,521
Speaker 4: I'm looking at him, going, what the fuck are we doing?

677
00:36:27,961 --> 00:36:32,121
Speaker 4: He talking to each other, but very smart man, very

678
00:36:32,121 --> 00:36:34,841
Speaker 4: smart man, and he talked about those experiences to me.

679
00:36:34,881 --> 00:36:37,601
Speaker 4: And when he was dying of cancer, I go visit

680
00:36:37,721 --> 00:36:39,881
Speaker 4: him in hospital and I felt like he had a

681
00:36:39,921 --> 00:36:42,041
Speaker 4: lot he wanted to tell, a lot, he wanted.

682
00:36:41,841 --> 00:36:44,241
Speaker 3: To get I think there's a lot that went with him,

683
00:36:44,281 --> 00:36:48,921
Speaker 3: and you know, like as you would have experienced having

684
00:36:49,001 --> 00:36:52,521
Speaker 3: been like I at eighteen was at the sip. Yeah,

685
00:36:52,561 --> 00:36:54,521
Speaker 3: that was a scary place. You know, you're looking at

686
00:36:54,561 --> 00:36:57,441
Speaker 3: five years plus most blokes. I was doing two and

687
00:36:57,521 --> 00:37:00,561
Speaker 3: a half on the bottom at aighten Bran.

688
00:37:00,961 --> 00:37:03,601
Speaker 4: I think there's something. Yeah, we get back to the

689
00:37:03,681 --> 00:37:06,441
Speaker 4: rivalry with the cops and the bikes or cops and

690
00:37:06,481 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 4: crooks or whatever. It just shows, like one bad cop

691
00:37:10,561 --> 00:37:13,361
Speaker 4: the impact that can have if someone if some a

692
00:37:13,481 --> 00:37:16,081
Speaker 4: bad cop, if that's your experience, that you can hate

693
00:37:16,121 --> 00:37:19,081
Speaker 4: cops for the rest of your life. Similarly, you can

694
00:37:19,161 --> 00:37:22,361
Speaker 4: have one cop that you might think decent person. And

695
00:37:22,561 --> 00:37:24,961
Speaker 4: I've heard people in your situation say, well, there was

696
00:37:24,961 --> 00:37:27,561
Speaker 4: this one cop that was a decent person that can

697
00:37:27,641 --> 00:37:32,041
Speaker 4: change the path of their life. But I Bernie taught

698
00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 4: me not to judge. Not taught me, but the helped

699
00:37:35,041 --> 00:37:37,881
Speaker 4: on that journey looking at Okay, what are we doing?

700
00:37:37,961 --> 00:37:39,521
Speaker 4: What are we doing? Like do we have to hate

701
00:37:39,521 --> 00:37:42,441
Speaker 4: each other? Bernie and I when he was operating and

702
00:37:42,521 --> 00:37:44,161
Speaker 4: I was operating in the stick ups and he was

703
00:37:44,201 --> 00:37:46,801
Speaker 4: robbing banks. If we met each other, we'd probably shoot

704
00:37:46,801 --> 00:37:47,161
Speaker 4: each other.

705
00:37:47,721 --> 00:37:51,081
Speaker 3: But just a touch on that, and he's just a

706
00:37:51,081 --> 00:37:53,281
Speaker 3: little bit of fact, which you would already know because

707
00:37:53,281 --> 00:37:56,361
Speaker 3: you've interviewed. The one thing that Bernie always said is

708
00:37:56,401 --> 00:38:00,681
Speaker 3: he never intentionally wentever and to do an unarmed robbery,

709
00:38:00,921 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 3: to ever use the gun. He never went in there

710
00:38:03,481 --> 00:38:06,641
Speaker 3: with intention to hurt anybody, and you know, and he

711
00:38:06,721 --> 00:38:07,281
Speaker 3: swore by that.

712
00:38:07,841 --> 00:38:10,361
Speaker 4: And you know, a really interesting fact, not just with Bernie,

713
00:38:10,441 --> 00:38:13,321
Speaker 4: a couple of arm robbers that I've spoken to since

714
00:38:14,201 --> 00:38:17,241
Speaker 4: they didn't know about post traumatic stress and all that stuff. Correct,

715
00:38:17,281 --> 00:38:19,281
Speaker 4: they walk out of the bank, and I think Russell,

716
00:38:19,681 --> 00:38:23,361
Speaker 4: our good mate that also sadly passed away, walk out

717
00:38:23,361 --> 00:38:25,721
Speaker 4: of the bank thinking they're good people because they didn't

718
00:38:25,801 --> 00:38:29,441
Speaker 4: hurt anyone. But they hadn't at that stage even comprehended

719
00:38:29,681 --> 00:38:32,841
Speaker 4: the trauma that comes from it.

720
00:38:31,761 --> 00:38:36,881
Speaker 3: But look, but you don't. And I did my time

721
00:38:36,881 --> 00:38:38,361
Speaker 3: and I paid for my crime. You know, I got

722
00:38:38,361 --> 00:38:42,281
Speaker 3: done for commercial importation. At that stage, did I think

723
00:38:42,401 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: that the ongoing flow would be detrimental to the community. No,

724
00:38:49,041 --> 00:38:53,801
Speaker 3: it wasn't something in my mindset that I thought about. Yet.

725
00:38:54,761 --> 00:38:58,681
Speaker 3: Have I been affected by people with addiction and through

726
00:38:58,721 --> 00:39:01,721
Speaker 3: addiction and you know, committing crimes to people I care

727
00:39:01,801 --> 00:39:05,801
Speaker 3: about and love because they've gone on a rampage. Absolutely

728
00:39:06,321 --> 00:39:09,921
Speaker 3: so did I contribute back then to that part two

729
00:39:09,921 --> 00:39:13,561
Speaker 3: thousand and nine, Absolutely I was. You know, I had,

730
00:39:13,641 --> 00:39:16,321
Speaker 3: and I did, and I'm convicted and done my time

731
00:39:16,361 --> 00:39:21,321
Speaker 3: for it. At the time, they wouldn't have been thinking about,

732
00:39:21,401 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: like you say, you know, the trauma or the PTSD

733
00:39:25,201 --> 00:39:27,521
Speaker 3: that was left to the teller or the public in

734
00:39:27,601 --> 00:39:29,761
Speaker 3: the in the area of the space of what too.

735
00:39:30,161 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 4: You know, I think we find common ground there. You're

736
00:39:32,481 --> 00:39:35,001
Speaker 4: talking about your dealings with the drugs and you didn't

737
00:39:35,041 --> 00:39:39,721
Speaker 4: understand the drama that flowed on from that. You got

738
00:39:39,721 --> 00:39:42,321
Speaker 4: Bernie robbing banks and thinking he's been a good fellow

739
00:39:42,321 --> 00:39:45,401
Speaker 4: because he didn't shoot anyone. You got me just if

740
00:39:45,441 --> 00:39:47,121
Speaker 4: a bag if you've committed a crime. I'm going to

741
00:39:47,121 --> 00:39:49,121
Speaker 4: lock you up. I'm going to play hardball, lock you up.

742
00:39:49,561 --> 00:39:51,881
Speaker 4: No one really like when I was locking people up

743
00:39:52,041 --> 00:39:54,801
Speaker 4: when I was in the in the cops started to

744
00:39:54,801 --> 00:39:57,241
Speaker 4: evolve a little bit more towards the end, but I

745
00:39:57,281 --> 00:39:59,601
Speaker 4: didn't really have time to think about what if I

746
00:39:59,641 --> 00:40:01,641
Speaker 4: was locking you up, I wouldn't be concerned about what

747
00:40:01,721 --> 00:40:03,601
Speaker 4: was your upbringing, did your parents love you? Were you?

748
00:40:04,281 --> 00:40:07,721
Speaker 4: Were you? What happened? It would have been got one,

749
00:40:07,841 --> 00:40:10,241
Speaker 4: where's the next one? So we all look back and

750
00:40:10,281 --> 00:40:13,321
Speaker 4: we learn. I think the fact that we're sitting down

751
00:40:13,401 --> 00:40:16,561
Speaker 4: and discussing, even though you fucking ambush me, but well.

752
00:40:17,321 --> 00:40:19,001
Speaker 3: I mean, look, at the end of the day, I

753
00:40:19,001 --> 00:40:21,001
Speaker 3: didn't know how else to go about getting you here.

754
00:40:21,001 --> 00:40:25,121
Speaker 3: And look, I'm not mates with cops. I don't speak

755
00:40:25,121 --> 00:40:26,801
Speaker 3: to cops as simple as that, and I'm sure you

756
00:40:26,841 --> 00:40:30,281
Speaker 3: have very little do with crims other than through your podcast.

757
00:40:30,841 --> 00:40:33,601
Speaker 3: I felt that I've got enough front to sit down

758
00:40:33,721 --> 00:40:37,081
Speaker 3: and ask somebody who knows, and I know that you're

759
00:40:37,121 --> 00:40:40,481
Speaker 3: going to actually come back at me. So when I

760
00:40:40,521 --> 00:40:42,521
Speaker 3: put the gloves on and I will crack together because

761
00:40:42,521 --> 00:40:44,801
Speaker 3: I'm at the end of the day, you know it's

762
00:40:44,881 --> 00:40:47,801
Speaker 3: me and you. There's the cameras here and the mics

763
00:40:47,881 --> 00:40:49,841
Speaker 3: and made it's as real as you're going to get.

764
00:40:49,961 --> 00:40:52,641
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I respect it. And the fact that you

765
00:40:53,081 --> 00:40:55,801
Speaker 4: asked me out here, because I would assume I would

766
00:40:55,801 --> 00:41:00,441
Speaker 4: assume that the don't assume. Okay, that never assumed.

767
00:41:01,401 --> 00:41:02,241
Speaker 3: I like to a ship.

768
00:41:02,281 --> 00:41:05,521
Speaker 4: All right, Well, I know that you'd get some shit

769
00:41:05,601 --> 00:41:07,721
Speaker 4: flowing your way. Just mere fact that you're seeing in

770
00:41:07,761 --> 00:41:08,641
Speaker 4: the room talking to me.

771
00:41:08,841 --> 00:41:10,681
Speaker 3: That's life. And I think that's what That's what you

772
00:41:10,801 --> 00:41:13,641
Speaker 3: have to realize is doesn't matter. Nobody's going to sit

773
00:41:13,681 --> 00:41:16,281
Speaker 3: here and say you know that they appreciate you and

774
00:41:16,441 --> 00:41:18,641
Speaker 3: like you for everything you do. There's people out there

775
00:41:18,641 --> 00:41:22,761
Speaker 3: that couldn't stand half the people that I may interview,

776
00:41:22,961 --> 00:41:27,401
Speaker 3: or me sitting here now questioning you on my podcast.

777
00:41:27,441 --> 00:41:29,961
Speaker 3: And I use that word questioning.

778
00:41:30,081 --> 00:41:31,921
Speaker 4: I don't even like to use that word because it

779
00:41:32,001 --> 00:41:35,561
Speaker 4: seems I just I should just play hardball like you

780
00:41:35,601 --> 00:41:39,121
Speaker 4: guys did, the hard hard nuts that I'd interview, just

781
00:41:39,161 --> 00:41:41,201
Speaker 4: fucking sit here and stare at you.

782
00:41:41,641 --> 00:41:44,321
Speaker 3: But it'd be fucking boring, boring podcast. And the thing is,

783
00:41:44,401 --> 00:41:46,001
Speaker 3: let it be known. I didn't pay for Gary to

784
00:41:46,001 --> 00:41:47,961
Speaker 3: come up. He paid for his own fucking flight.

785
00:41:47,921 --> 00:41:48,881
Speaker 4: So he's stupid.

786
00:41:48,881 --> 00:41:50,961
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, you know, like

787
00:41:51,041 --> 00:41:55,161
Speaker 3: he come up here with literally, I'm no, I'm not

788
00:41:55,161 --> 00:41:57,201
Speaker 3: going to use that word. I think you would have

789
00:41:57,241 --> 00:41:59,401
Speaker 3: thought that you're coming up for a happy, bubbly chat

790
00:41:59,441 --> 00:42:04,521
Speaker 3: on thought, because our season is based around giving people

791
00:42:04,561 --> 00:42:08,921
Speaker 3: the tool to bettering their lives. Funny enough, though, and

792
00:42:09,001 --> 00:42:11,521
Speaker 3: I think that you do have some tools there that

793
00:42:11,561 --> 00:42:13,801
Speaker 3: we were able to pull out and leave in the

794
00:42:13,841 --> 00:42:19,161
Speaker 3: toolbox after our episode that will help people. And that's

795
00:42:19,201 --> 00:42:21,641
Speaker 3: the other side of it. Without sort of pissing in

796
00:42:21,641 --> 00:42:25,761
Speaker 3: your pocket, I know that you've been doing things from

797
00:42:25,761 --> 00:42:29,001
Speaker 3: a different side of life. I guess if I can

798
00:42:29,041 --> 00:42:31,241
Speaker 3: say it a little bit more from my perspective from

799
00:42:31,281 --> 00:42:34,561
Speaker 3: other inmates out there, perspective from other persons out there

800
00:42:34,561 --> 00:42:38,641
Speaker 3: with criminalities perspective, No, you're not a criminal, even though

801
00:42:38,681 --> 00:42:41,001
Speaker 3: you've been convicted now and you have been charging. You

802
00:42:41,041 --> 00:42:43,241
Speaker 3: know what it feels like to be rejected for a visa?

803
00:42:43,361 --> 00:42:48,121
Speaker 3: Suck shit? And I was like saying to Meana, like

804
00:42:48,241 --> 00:42:50,201
Speaker 3: suck shit, because like, do you know how many fucking

805
00:42:50,281 --> 00:42:52,561
Speaker 3: times we try to go for visas and get knocked

806
00:42:52,561 --> 00:42:56,361
Speaker 3: back because of misdemeanors. But yet yes, okay, look, not

807
00:42:56,441 --> 00:42:58,041
Speaker 3: all of us have got misdemeanors. Some of us have

808
00:42:58,081 --> 00:43:01,561
Speaker 3: got some serious crimes. But it's not a nice feeling,

809
00:43:01,921 --> 00:43:04,041
Speaker 3: you know. But on the flip side of that, I

810
00:43:04,121 --> 00:43:08,081
Speaker 3: do know after doing a little bit of homework about you,

811
00:43:09,081 --> 00:43:14,041
Speaker 3: and you've been putting yourself into some spaces that are

812
00:43:14,121 --> 00:43:17,841
Speaker 3: uncomfortable that we have had to live in, that we

813
00:43:17,881 --> 00:43:19,401
Speaker 3: have had to experience.

814
00:43:19,641 --> 00:43:22,601
Speaker 4: Well, I figure I've got to have a look at it.

815
00:43:22,601 --> 00:43:25,401
Speaker 4: If I'm going to talk about crime a true crime podcast,

816
00:43:25,441 --> 00:43:28,161
Speaker 4: I'm going to give credit to people that have come

817
00:43:28,201 --> 00:43:31,721
Speaker 4: on the podcast and sort of changing changing my view

818
00:43:31,761 --> 00:43:36,201
Speaker 4: on things. But yeah, what do you do? I'm not

819
00:43:36,241 --> 00:43:39,761
Speaker 4: a big one in that. I think people within the police,

820
00:43:40,081 --> 00:43:43,241
Speaker 4: certain people I'm talking like a very small group that

821
00:43:43,281 --> 00:43:45,441
Speaker 4: went at me, wanted to break me. And I'm thinking

822
00:43:45,521 --> 00:43:47,161
Speaker 4: they don't even know who I am because they weren't

823
00:43:47,161 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 4: going to break me. And I look at this way,

824
00:43:50,561 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 4: what's my best form of revenge? Have an interesting life?

825
00:43:53,481 --> 00:43:57,601
Speaker 4: My life's interesting. Yes, you ambush me coming up here,

826
00:43:57,681 --> 00:43:59,001
Speaker 4: But that's not a bad interview.

827
00:43:59,881 --> 00:44:05,401
Speaker 3: That's one for us. But I'm going to actually playing

828
00:44:05,401 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 3: that one because I'll tell you what'd be the first

829
00:44:07,001 --> 00:44:09,841
Speaker 3: time I ever got to ambush next. And maybe I'm

830
00:44:09,881 --> 00:44:12,561
Speaker 3: losing the sharpness because you dropped the ball, mate. You

831
00:44:12,561 --> 00:44:13,841
Speaker 3: didn't do enough investigations.

832
00:44:13,881 --> 00:44:15,961
Speaker 4: I should have seen that coming coming a mile away.

833
00:44:16,121 --> 00:44:19,401
Speaker 3: But you know, but I think it's worthy. I think

834
00:44:19,441 --> 00:44:23,161
Speaker 3: it's worthy that we have we're sitting here now. Finally,

835
00:44:23,801 --> 00:44:24,321
Speaker 3: I think.

836
00:44:24,121 --> 00:44:27,681
Speaker 4: It's why I come up, why I want to sit

837
00:44:27,721 --> 00:44:30,201
Speaker 4: down with you. I think I think it's interesting and

838
00:44:30,561 --> 00:44:33,601
Speaker 4: it's not lost on you or I like, yeah, you

839
00:44:33,641 --> 00:44:35,521
Speaker 4: did what you did, and you did it very well

840
00:44:35,561 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 4: at your time. I did what I did very well,

841
00:44:37,641 --> 00:44:42,081
Speaker 4: and neverthe two should meet. I get that. But I've

842
00:44:42,121 --> 00:44:44,681
Speaker 4: been listening to your podcast. Yes I'll say it. I

843
00:44:44,801 --> 00:44:45,241
Speaker 4: listened to you.

844
00:44:45,681 --> 00:44:46,801
Speaker 3: I've heard a couple of yours.

845
00:44:47,441 --> 00:44:49,161
Speaker 4: I've got to say you do a pretty good job.

846
00:44:49,401 --> 00:44:52,881
Speaker 4: But even when we I think you started just before

847
00:44:52,961 --> 00:44:55,801
Speaker 4: me or whatever, but around that time kicking off close

848
00:44:55,841 --> 00:44:59,001
Speaker 4: to about four years around that time, and I thought

849
00:44:59,001 --> 00:45:01,321
Speaker 4: it was really curious there was a who was a

850
00:45:01,441 --> 00:45:05,401
Speaker 4: mutual friend. So that suggested we're getting getting calm tact

851
00:45:05,841 --> 00:45:07,601
Speaker 4: or whatever, or you might want to speak the Brent.

852
00:45:08,161 --> 00:45:11,521
Speaker 4: I think the feedback and it was I think John Killick.

853
00:45:11,561 --> 00:45:13,401
Speaker 4: You might know John Killick escaped from a.

854
00:45:14,761 --> 00:45:17,121
Speaker 3: Blake that flew out of one of the most maximum

855
00:45:17,201 --> 00:45:21,481
Speaker 3: security facilities that you know, just had a helicopter land.

856
00:45:21,401 --> 00:45:24,041
Speaker 4: With his Russian girlfriend that hijacked the helicopter. Yeah, you

857
00:45:24,041 --> 00:45:25,001
Speaker 4: can't make this ship up.

858
00:45:25,001 --> 00:45:27,561
Speaker 3: But anyway, and you know what what an actual like

859
00:45:27,921 --> 00:45:30,721
Speaker 3: and people are going to say, mate, what a legend

860
00:45:30,761 --> 00:45:31,721
Speaker 3: and what a great man.

861
00:45:32,201 --> 00:45:35,281
Speaker 4: He said, I'll speak to Brent because I was speaking

862
00:45:35,321 --> 00:45:38,921
Speaker 4: to him and he came back and I said, he

863
00:45:38,961 --> 00:45:40,561
Speaker 4: said that I spaked the Brent. I don't think he

864
00:45:40,641 --> 00:45:43,641
Speaker 4: wants to speak to you and a few other fat and.

865
00:45:44,241 --> 00:45:48,241
Speaker 3: We can say it on our podcast. You're not restricted god.

866
00:45:48,521 --> 00:45:52,521
Speaker 4: Basically your response was I spoke to Brent and he

867
00:45:52,761 --> 00:45:56,081
Speaker 4: basically said, fuck off. You're a copper. And so to Wit,

868
00:45:56,361 --> 00:45:58,761
Speaker 4: I said, will tell him the funk off. He was

869
00:45:58,841 --> 00:46:02,641
Speaker 4: a biking and I don't know what where we where

870
00:46:02,681 --> 00:46:05,401
Speaker 4: we found ground from there, but that was a thing.

871
00:46:05,441 --> 00:46:08,441
Speaker 4: And then I was listening to your podcast, and I

872
00:46:08,681 --> 00:46:12,681
Speaker 4: was genuinely listening before anything that would get to know

873
00:46:12,881 --> 00:46:15,441
Speaker 4: or whatever. I was curious about what you're doing and

874
00:46:15,561 --> 00:46:18,561
Speaker 4: I find found it quite quite interesting. And then yeah,

875
00:46:18,721 --> 00:46:22,761
Speaker 4: you're running the Clink podcast. I'm running Eye Catch Killers podcast.

876
00:46:23,081 --> 00:46:26,001
Speaker 4: You're a bikey or ex bikey. I'm an ex cop.

877
00:46:27,401 --> 00:46:31,161
Speaker 4: We shouldn't be talking to each other. But as fate

878
00:46:31,201 --> 00:46:32,201
Speaker 4: would have it, you tricked me.

879
00:46:32,721 --> 00:46:35,281
Speaker 3: But well, I mean the reality is, you know, like I,

880
00:46:37,321 --> 00:46:38,881
Speaker 3: I look at it this way. You know, there is

881
00:46:39,001 --> 00:46:42,921
Speaker 3: that that absolute line of you don't cross. We're not

882
00:46:43,081 --> 00:46:46,561
Speaker 3: discussing anybody anything. We're not I'm not asking a view

883
00:46:46,681 --> 00:46:50,361
Speaker 3: to throw anyone under the bus. There's no statement or

884
00:46:50,441 --> 00:46:54,041
Speaker 3: allegations or crimes being discussed. It's going to implicate anybody

885
00:46:54,161 --> 00:46:57,601
Speaker 3: or anything. This is purely a conversation between somebody who

886
00:46:57,681 --> 00:47:00,441
Speaker 3: had a past in the law and somebody who was

887
00:47:01,801 --> 00:47:06,361
Speaker 3: in the past had a career criminality. So, if anything,

888
00:47:06,441 --> 00:47:10,161
Speaker 3: I think this conversation today is to actually benefit people

889
00:47:10,201 --> 00:47:13,321
Speaker 3: out there and understand a little bit more about who

890
00:47:13,521 --> 00:47:16,481
Speaker 3: and why and and also too, I guess, touching on

891
00:47:16,561 --> 00:47:20,001
Speaker 3: the fact and I didn't know that that you now

892
00:47:20,121 --> 00:47:24,801
Speaker 3: have a criminal record, I can't help but keep chuckling

893
00:47:24,881 --> 00:47:25,401
Speaker 3: to myself.

894
00:47:27,601 --> 00:47:28,441
Speaker 4: It doesn't carry a lot.

895
00:47:29,441 --> 00:47:32,201
Speaker 3: It's a pretty cool thing. I said, to finally sit

896
00:47:32,321 --> 00:47:37,081
Speaker 3: down and think to myself, this decorated officer or ex

897
00:47:37,201 --> 00:47:39,121
Speaker 3: police officer is the criminal.

898
00:47:39,761 --> 00:47:42,161
Speaker 4: I look by Jake, I didn't get a certificate of service,

899
00:47:42,201 --> 00:47:45,161
Speaker 4: but I got a couple of charge sheets. So you

900
00:47:45,321 --> 00:47:47,761
Speaker 4: put the certificate of the service in your in your

901
00:47:47,801 --> 00:47:51,481
Speaker 4: home in the frame. I just want I want to

902
00:47:51,521 --> 00:47:54,721
Speaker 4: I want to say something because I just reflecting on you.

903
00:47:55,001 --> 00:47:58,601
Speaker 4: You're saying, how cops if you get a flogging, and

904
00:47:58,681 --> 00:48:03,441
Speaker 4: then how they react, how you guys? Well, if I

905
00:48:03,841 --> 00:48:04,961
Speaker 4: got copper flogging from the.

906
00:48:05,081 --> 00:48:07,041
Speaker 3: But it's not a flogging. This is the word we

907
00:48:07,201 --> 00:48:11,241
Speaker 3: need to change a This was an ongoing constant all

908
00:48:11,281 --> 00:48:13,601
Speaker 3: the time. You were guaranteed to walk out of the

909
00:48:13,641 --> 00:48:19,121
Speaker 3: police station bruised, black eyed, bleeding, those busted lip. You were,

910
00:48:19,361 --> 00:48:22,201
Speaker 3: you were one hundred percent. This wasn't just me, This

911
00:48:22,481 --> 00:48:25,761
Speaker 3: was every young person in that in that era.

912
00:48:26,121 --> 00:48:28,961
Speaker 4: Yeah, well a different era, and you know it's not

913
00:48:29,121 --> 00:48:32,921
Speaker 4: it was your era. Well my era. I feel like

914
00:48:33,401 --> 00:48:37,001
Speaker 4: a dying breed, Like my era was a long time ago.

915
00:48:37,561 --> 00:48:40,521
Speaker 4: But I understand that world. I understand where things were

916
00:48:40,561 --> 00:48:43,521
Speaker 4: pretty willing in the police station. But the point I

917
00:48:43,641 --> 00:48:46,361
Speaker 4: wanted to make, I'd also seen people in the charge

918
00:48:46,441 --> 00:48:49,601
Speaker 4: shock jump over and belt some Yeah it might be

919
00:48:49,841 --> 00:48:53,601
Speaker 4: a female police officer, or just some little little dude

920
00:48:53,641 --> 00:48:55,841
Speaker 4: that you know, never been a violent person in his life.

921
00:48:56,201 --> 00:48:57,561
Speaker 4: Not I'll funk off with.

922
00:48:57,601 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 3: Your little dude, never been a violent person. You fucking

923
00:49:01,001 --> 00:49:03,321
Speaker 3: blakes get put through a holy shit at the academy,

924
00:49:03,361 --> 00:49:05,561
Speaker 3: whether you're a big, small, short, or tall. Was ginny

925
00:49:05,761 --> 00:49:07,761
Speaker 3: whatever happened to the fucking copper that had to be

926
00:49:07,841 --> 00:49:10,241
Speaker 3: six foot tall and bulletproof? And now they put in

927
00:49:10,321 --> 00:49:13,041
Speaker 3: all these little fat fucks that couldn't even run themselves

928
00:49:13,081 --> 00:49:13,841
Speaker 3: in a ten meter.

929
00:49:15,801 --> 00:49:17,681
Speaker 4: Gone on the day of the six foot cops. Although

930
00:49:17,721 --> 00:49:19,481
Speaker 4: I've seen some little cops that can.

931
00:49:19,441 --> 00:49:21,521
Speaker 3: Go, but not only there's a seven foot four one.

932
00:49:21,721 --> 00:49:26,441
Speaker 4: Yeah, I saw picture of that. That's that's incredible. But

933
00:49:26,961 --> 00:49:28,921
Speaker 4: what I was going to say, I just I feel

934
00:49:29,041 --> 00:49:31,121
Speaker 4: like I just needed to defend the police here a

935
00:49:31,161 --> 00:49:33,361
Speaker 4: little bit in about the resentment that you get where

936
00:49:33,401 --> 00:49:36,761
Speaker 4: you're treated that way cops, not all cops, but the

937
00:49:36,881 --> 00:49:39,401
Speaker 4: hard working cops. Sometimes they put themselves out there and

938
00:49:39,441 --> 00:49:42,281
Speaker 4: they're constantly being abused and all that, and yeah, if

939
00:49:42,361 --> 00:49:45,401
Speaker 4: you've that might be where they cross the line, you

940
00:49:45,441 --> 00:49:47,881
Speaker 4: know how you talk about how in bred that hate is,

941
00:49:48,241 --> 00:49:50,361
Speaker 4: or if a cop turns up every every day at

942
00:49:50,401 --> 00:49:53,161
Speaker 4: work and is getting abused, getting bashed, getting injured and

943
00:49:53,201 --> 00:49:55,681
Speaker 4: all that. Maybe you change a little bit that way too,

944
00:49:55,761 --> 00:49:58,641
Speaker 4: So I think we've got to just balance balance it

945
00:49:58,681 --> 00:49:59,001
Speaker 4: out of here.

946
00:49:59,161 --> 00:50:01,281
Speaker 3: No, no, no fair call and change your fucking job.

947
00:50:03,001 --> 00:50:06,641
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, don't be an out around.

948
00:50:07,761 --> 00:50:09,881
Speaker 3: Well, even when you're not, you're still classed as fuck.

949
00:50:09,921 --> 00:50:12,201
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I get pulled over now, and you

950
00:50:12,241 --> 00:50:16,361
Speaker 3: know it's an instant intel check. I had a highway

951
00:50:16,441 --> 00:50:20,121
Speaker 3: patrol officer pulled me over only a few months ago,

952
00:50:20,761 --> 00:50:23,081
Speaker 3: and I mean this, sincerely, this has not been a

953
00:50:23,121 --> 00:50:26,801
Speaker 3: fucking goose. This has been really honest. So he pulls

954
00:50:26,881 --> 00:50:30,761
Speaker 3: me over and I said, what was the problem. He says,

955
00:50:30,761 --> 00:50:33,161
Speaker 3: I mate, it's a it's one hundred and you're going

956
00:50:33,161 --> 00:50:36,401
Speaker 3: one hundred and six or one hundred and seven. I said, ship, apologies,

957
00:50:36,441 --> 00:50:39,241
Speaker 3: were goes just your license please, and goes back to

958
00:50:39,601 --> 00:50:42,601
Speaker 3: he's carrying as I'll be back in a second. Comes

959
00:50:42,721 --> 00:50:46,121
Speaker 3: up and he goes, so you got anything in the car?

960
00:50:46,241 --> 00:50:49,041
Speaker 3: I said no, I said, you're welcome and go through it.

961
00:50:49,561 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 3: He goes, so are you still with the omc G group?

962
00:50:54,241 --> 00:50:57,761
Speaker 3: And I said what He said, Oh, well, I'm just

963
00:50:57,841 --> 00:51:00,001
Speaker 3: asking you the question can you answer the question. I said, no,

964
00:51:00,041 --> 00:51:01,641
Speaker 3: I'm not going to fucking answer the question. I said,

965
00:51:01,641 --> 00:51:03,201
Speaker 3: all I'm going to say it. He is this, that's

966
00:51:03,241 --> 00:51:06,161
Speaker 3: how pathetic your intel is. And he goes, oh, oh,

967
00:51:06,321 --> 00:51:08,321
Speaker 3: hang on a second bigger. I said no, no, I said,

968
00:51:08,321 --> 00:51:11,001
Speaker 3: I'm fed up with this. I said, twenty ten. What

969
00:51:11,161 --> 00:51:14,801
Speaker 3: year are we in now? Twenty twenty four, I said,

970
00:51:14,841 --> 00:51:19,081
Speaker 3: and your intel still tells you that I am a

971
00:51:19,201 --> 00:51:24,121
Speaker 3: part of an OMC G. And he turned around, he

972
00:51:24,201 --> 00:51:26,081
Speaker 3: said to me. He walked away, and he come back

973
00:51:26,081 --> 00:51:28,761
Speaker 3: and he said, listen. He said, I can understand you're

974
00:51:28,801 --> 00:51:30,641
Speaker 3: firing up. I said, well, no, I'm sick of it.

975
00:51:31,161 --> 00:51:34,161
Speaker 3: I said, that's not my life. I said, but once again,

976
00:51:34,241 --> 00:51:36,121
Speaker 3: I said, nine times out of ten, if that had

977
00:51:36,161 --> 00:51:39,041
Speaker 3: happened in the past, i'd know because he'd sit in

978
00:51:39,121 --> 00:51:41,561
Speaker 3: his car. Next minute, you'd see him come from everywhere, right,

979
00:51:41,681 --> 00:51:46,401
Speaker 3: so you knew the squad was coming. That didn't happen.

980
00:51:46,841 --> 00:51:49,001
Speaker 3: But what he did say to me was that they

981
00:51:49,201 --> 00:51:55,041
Speaker 3: never remove that sort of intel from the computers. That

982
00:51:55,121 --> 00:51:57,081
Speaker 3: it's there. So no matter whether you turn into a

983
00:51:57,201 --> 00:52:00,801
Speaker 3: priest or you give your heart and soul to whatever else,

984
00:52:00,881 --> 00:52:02,641
Speaker 3: it is out there to be doing good in this world,

985
00:52:02,721 --> 00:52:07,121
Speaker 3: in this community we talk about constantly, I guess judged

986
00:52:07,441 --> 00:52:10,161
Speaker 3: or looked at. And I'm not sitting here saying that

987
00:52:10,401 --> 00:52:12,521
Speaker 3: he was just doing his job. I got caught doing

988
00:52:12,561 --> 00:52:14,641
Speaker 3: six k's or seven k's over the limit that was

989
00:52:14,721 --> 00:52:17,881
Speaker 3: on me, but the intel that was on the computer

990
00:52:18,001 --> 00:52:20,161
Speaker 3: that he didn't know me from a bar. So that

991
00:52:20,321 --> 00:52:22,041
Speaker 3: looks at that and goes, We'll hang on a sec.

992
00:52:24,521 --> 00:52:26,921
Speaker 3: He's a club member. Yeah yeah, And next minute I'm

993
00:52:26,921 --> 00:52:29,641
Speaker 3: getting turned upside down, which I didn't but could even

994
00:52:29,761 --> 00:52:31,841
Speaker 3: has happened in the past, turned upside down on the

995
00:52:31,881 --> 00:52:32,601
Speaker 3: side of the end month.

996
00:52:32,761 --> 00:52:38,201
Speaker 4: Well see, I like what, well, you're right, you're right.

997
00:52:38,321 --> 00:52:41,321
Speaker 4: But what I'm saying credit where credit Stewart. At least

998
00:52:41,361 --> 00:52:43,201
Speaker 4: the cop didn't escalade and get his back up. You.

999
00:52:43,361 --> 00:52:45,201
Speaker 3: No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. I'm I'm not

1000
00:52:45,281 --> 00:52:47,201
Speaker 3: sitting here saying he did wrong, and I'm not.

1001
00:52:48,241 --> 00:52:50,081
Speaker 4: You make a valid point there, Like you know, we

1002
00:52:50,201 --> 00:52:51,801
Speaker 4: look at and I'm thinking if I was a cop

1003
00:52:51,921 --> 00:52:55,121
Speaker 4: pulled over, I would look at you links to OMCG

1004
00:52:55,281 --> 00:52:58,001
Speaker 4: And then you're thinking, oh that was twenty ten, that's

1005
00:52:58,041 --> 00:53:02,561
Speaker 4: where four years ago. All right, look again, and you

1006
00:53:02,721 --> 00:53:06,361
Speaker 4: laugh at this one after just after I was charged

1007
00:53:06,401 --> 00:53:09,921
Speaker 4: and it became public. I was driving with my son.

1008
00:53:10,241 --> 00:53:12,161
Speaker 4: I've been up to help my mother was moving. So

1009
00:53:12,721 --> 00:53:15,281
Speaker 4: it was a Sunday morning. Yeah, we don't have the

1010
00:53:15,321 --> 00:53:18,841
Speaker 4: tickets anymore on the registration. My car registrations and expired

1011
00:53:18,881 --> 00:53:23,281
Speaker 4: the day before. I get pulled over highway patrol. And

1012
00:53:24,281 --> 00:53:26,961
Speaker 4: I have didn't say I think. I didn't say, you know,

1013
00:53:27,561 --> 00:53:29,561
Speaker 4: I think you know who I am. I'm in the cops,

1014
00:53:29,561 --> 00:53:31,921
Speaker 4: because I wasn't in the cops any well. I've been

1015
00:53:32,041 --> 00:53:36,201
Speaker 4: charged Joe citizen, So yeah, I just and have where

1016
00:53:36,201 --> 00:53:37,841
Speaker 4: he off to and I said, I'm just coming home.

1017
00:53:37,921 --> 00:53:39,921
Speaker 4: Have you had anything to drink? And I had two

1018
00:53:40,001 --> 00:53:42,761
Speaker 4: beers last night, last at seven o'clock or whatever. It's

1019
00:53:42,801 --> 00:53:46,321
Speaker 4: ten o'clock in the morning, and I smell alcohol and

1020
00:53:46,441 --> 00:53:52,041
Speaker 4: I said, blew me and it came back negative obviously,

1021
00:53:52,241 --> 00:53:56,641
Speaker 4: and he's gone, that's interesting. And then went and sat

1022
00:53:56,681 --> 00:53:58,841
Speaker 4: in the police car and I could see him on

1023
00:53:58,921 --> 00:54:02,881
Speaker 4: the phone smiling, laughing. No doubt by that time he

1024
00:54:03,001 --> 00:54:05,401
Speaker 4: knows who I am and what comes back. I want

1025
00:54:05,441 --> 00:54:08,361
Speaker 4: to do another test, and I know I'm within my

1026
00:54:08,481 --> 00:54:11,761
Speaker 4: rights to say, you know, like enough is enough? Came back.

1027
00:54:12,001 --> 00:54:14,321
Speaker 4: My son's sitting there. My son's an adult, like, he's

1028
00:54:14,361 --> 00:54:17,561
Speaker 4: in his twenties, sitting there in the suit. Blow it again.

1029
00:54:18,201 --> 00:54:22,041
Speaker 4: This cop was just humiliating me, just degrading me. I'm

1030
00:54:22,081 --> 00:54:25,401
Speaker 4: sitting there, just okay, don't snap, don't snap. And then

1031
00:54:25,441 --> 00:54:27,561
Speaker 4: he looks at my son, have you been drinking?

1032
00:54:27,961 --> 00:54:28,841
Speaker 3: And what?

1033
00:54:30,081 --> 00:54:32,361
Speaker 4: Well, that's exactly what I wanted to say, but I

1034
00:54:32,481 --> 00:54:34,921
Speaker 4: just let my son answer it, and no, I haven't

1035
00:54:34,961 --> 00:54:38,081
Speaker 4: been drinking. I'm smelling alcohol, I said, I've just had amandain.

1036
00:54:38,201 --> 00:54:41,241
Speaker 4: Maybe you're smelling a mandarin. The skin went on and

1037
00:54:41,361 --> 00:54:43,961
Speaker 4: on and talked about you know you haven't your car's

1038
00:54:44,001 --> 00:54:47,161
Speaker 4: not registered. I said, I'm sorry, when did done the

1039
00:54:47,281 --> 00:54:50,401
Speaker 4: day before? I'm sorry? What are you being up to? Well,

1040
00:54:50,561 --> 00:54:52,721
Speaker 4: it's actually helping my mother move, not that it's any

1041
00:54:52,761 --> 00:54:55,241
Speaker 4: of your business. I was kept there for about fifteen minutes,

1042
00:54:55,321 --> 00:54:57,921
Speaker 4: fifteen twenty minutes, and I just got the shits. I said,

1043
00:54:58,441 --> 00:55:00,761
Speaker 4: you've had your fun. Now you either write me up

1044
00:55:00,801 --> 00:55:02,921
Speaker 4: the ticket or just leave me alone. But I'm not

1045
00:55:03,001 --> 00:55:07,401
Speaker 4: playing this game anymore. One person just pissed me off

1046
00:55:07,561 --> 00:55:10,361
Speaker 4: so much. I hated cops for a long time. Then

1047
00:55:10,561 --> 00:55:13,281
Speaker 4: just the one and I was saying to my son there,

1048
00:55:14,281 --> 00:55:16,401
Speaker 4: that's why people get a bad name, like the way

1049
00:55:16,481 --> 00:55:19,441
Speaker 4: he was treating me. But he was having fun because

1050
00:55:19,561 --> 00:55:22,401
Speaker 4: now I was the ex cop or the shamed cop,

1051
00:55:22,761 --> 00:55:25,001
Speaker 4: and he's a little highway patrol dude that was just

1052
00:55:25,041 --> 00:55:27,041
Speaker 4: going to make life hard for fuck your day, yeah,

1053
00:55:27,161 --> 00:55:30,041
Speaker 4: and humiliate me in front of my son and for

1054
00:55:30,161 --> 00:55:31,801
Speaker 4: someone like me. And I understand.

1055
00:55:31,921 --> 00:55:33,561
Speaker 3: And that goes back to what I said to you

1056
00:55:33,681 --> 00:55:36,161
Speaker 3: earlier in our chat in reference to and I get it.

1057
00:55:36,481 --> 00:55:40,281
Speaker 3: I get it. Look, you having tel hypothetically ill use

1058
00:55:40,361 --> 00:55:43,321
Speaker 3: me is a case where you got intel on me.

1059
00:55:43,721 --> 00:55:49,041
Speaker 3: I've allegedly sold CBD oil to and undercover police officer

1060
00:55:49,201 --> 00:55:52,241
Speaker 3: through my Instagram. Next minute, you're kicking my door in

1061
00:55:53,201 --> 00:55:55,601
Speaker 3: at four point thirty quarter to five in the morning,

1062
00:55:55,721 --> 00:55:59,601
Speaker 3: waking my kids up. My kids are freaking screaming, you know,

1063
00:55:59,721 --> 00:56:04,121
Speaker 3: the wife's freaking out. And I'm basically obviously well aware

1064
00:56:04,161 --> 00:56:06,641
Speaker 3: of what it is that you doing. But you're coming

1065
00:56:06,681 --> 00:56:09,281
Speaker 3: through like you know, a bullet at a gate for what.

1066
00:56:09,801 --> 00:56:13,521
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, and there's no need for it. Really,

1067
00:56:13,641 --> 00:56:16,881
Speaker 4: I don't I don't think like I can't sit here

1068
00:56:17,081 --> 00:56:19,841
Speaker 4: as this innocent I played hardball when I was in

1069
00:56:19,921 --> 00:56:23,041
Speaker 4: the cops, but I had my moral code, and we

1070
00:56:23,121 --> 00:56:25,761
Speaker 4: talk about moral codes. I think it's important bikes have

1071
00:56:25,881 --> 00:56:32,081
Speaker 4: moral codes. I can understand a moral code that you

1072
00:56:32,161 --> 00:56:34,601
Speaker 4: guys might have. I might agree with it, but I

1073
00:56:34,641 --> 00:56:36,681
Speaker 4: can respect that. Okay, Well, if this happens, we're going

1074
00:56:36,761 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 4: to do this, blah blah blah. I understand it. But yeah,

1075
00:56:41,361 --> 00:56:46,241
Speaker 4: if people power corrupts. You have power as a biky,

1076
00:56:46,681 --> 00:56:48,241
Speaker 4: I think you've got power. You can walk into the

1077
00:56:48,321 --> 00:56:50,401
Speaker 4: pub and create all sorts of dramas. People are going

1078
00:56:50,441 --> 00:56:53,641
Speaker 4: to back off, and it corrupts. Cops have power, and

1079
00:56:53,801 --> 00:56:56,841
Speaker 4: power crops corrupts cops. So we just you need to

1080
00:56:56,921 --> 00:56:59,721
Speaker 4: check yourself on it sometimes. Fair call. So if you

1081
00:56:59,841 --> 00:57:02,721
Speaker 4: had your fun with me yet, you.

1082
00:57:02,801 --> 00:57:05,961
Speaker 3: Know, like I'm going to say, and I'm glad that

1083
00:57:06,041 --> 00:57:09,161
Speaker 3: we got to really just yeah, none, I'm glad we

1084
00:57:09,241 --> 00:57:11,321
Speaker 3: got to butt heads a bit there because I feel,

1085
00:57:11,401 --> 00:57:13,321
Speaker 3: like I said in the beginning, you know, it needed

1086
00:57:13,401 --> 00:57:17,921
Speaker 3: to be had. On a serious note, though, there is

1087
00:57:18,041 --> 00:57:21,641
Speaker 3: a sort of a meeting place I guess where we're

1088
00:57:21,721 --> 00:57:26,961
Speaker 3: both come to. I don't even know what the word

1089
00:57:27,041 --> 00:57:28,561
Speaker 3: what should we call it? A happy place?

1090
00:57:28,721 --> 00:57:30,361
Speaker 4: Why are you're punching your fists together.

1091
00:57:30,881 --> 00:57:33,081
Speaker 3: We've still got our gloves. I remember when we jumped

1092
00:57:33,081 --> 00:57:35,041
Speaker 3: in the ring to have a crack at each The

1093
00:57:35,121 --> 00:57:36,961
Speaker 3: gloves aren't off yet. And I'm sure there's a few

1094
00:57:37,041 --> 00:57:38,961
Speaker 3: lesson rights you want to throw now I've got one

1095
00:57:39,001 --> 00:57:43,601
Speaker 3: good fight. Look, look, we're both trying to make a

1096
00:57:43,681 --> 00:57:47,921
Speaker 3: difference in this world today. Put aside our pass where

1097
00:57:48,321 --> 00:57:52,401
Speaker 3: Joe's citizens today, where you're not. You're not an officer

1098
00:57:52,441 --> 00:57:55,361
Speaker 3: of the law. I'm not a career criminal and buy

1099
00:57:55,481 --> 00:57:59,561
Speaker 3: club member. What I am is a man is compassionate,

1100
00:57:59,641 --> 00:58:03,041
Speaker 3: caring and trying to help people in a better way

1101
00:58:04,161 --> 00:58:07,241
Speaker 3: through their choices of life using my lived experience as

1102
00:58:08,241 --> 00:58:09,641
Speaker 3: you can do as well.

1103
00:58:09,761 --> 00:58:14,521
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, forgetting everything that's gone before. With our difference

1104
00:58:14,641 --> 00:58:17,081
Speaker 4: is one thing that I think we're on the same

1105
00:58:17,281 --> 00:58:20,561
Speaker 4: same path. And I know, like you've done your research

1106
00:58:20,961 --> 00:58:24,881
Speaker 4: on me before I've come here. I'm not okay, I'm stupid.

1107
00:58:24,921 --> 00:58:26,561
Speaker 4: Then you got me up here and I thought it

1108
00:58:26,681 --> 00:58:29,441
Speaker 4: was a fluffy you sing Kumbai and you.

1109
00:58:29,441 --> 00:58:31,481
Speaker 3: Know, pop, it's a keeper.

1110
00:58:31,601 --> 00:58:33,121
Speaker 4: Now you've done a lot of a lot of time

1111
00:58:33,201 --> 00:58:36,361
Speaker 4: in jail. How do you feel when you come out

1112
00:58:36,401 --> 00:58:39,321
Speaker 4: of jail? Are you angry or what what you know?

1113
00:58:39,481 --> 00:58:43,521
Speaker 3: I used to look Gary. Why don't we just stop

1114
00:58:43,601 --> 00:58:45,881
Speaker 3: here and we'll talk about this in the next episode

1115
00:58:45,921 --> 00:58:46,361
Speaker 3: of The Clink.

1116
00:58:46,521 --> 00:58:49,881
Speaker 4: Okay, can we also call th catch Kills Clink and

1117
00:58:50,041 --> 00:58:52,561
Speaker 4: I Catch Kills. Come on, you've got a compromise, but

1118
00:58:52,961 --> 00:58:53,681
Speaker 4: it's going out.

1119
00:58:53,601 --> 00:58:54,401
Speaker 3: On both platforms.

1120
00:58:54,481 --> 00:58:55,801
Speaker 4: This one for the work.

1121
00:58:56,121 --> 00:59:00,041
Speaker 2: Don't try and make you uncomfortable. Photo record, trug world

1122
00:59:00,081 --> 00:59:03,521
Speaker 2: and stuff for your photo record lab on me going

1123
00:59:03,601 --> 00:59:06,721
Speaker 2: hard the work for the record. Ain't trying to link, no,

1124
00:59:06,841 --> 00:59:07,401
Speaker 2: trying to waste.

1125
00:59:08,441 --> 00:59:14,081
Speaker 1: For the record, for the record, for the for the record,

1126
00:59:15,001 --> 00:59:18,881
Speaker 1: for the record, for the record, for the record.

1127
00:59:22,321 --> 00:59:22,841
Speaker 4: Mm hmm