1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for downloading the show. A very special 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: episode today in which I bring you a brief conversation 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: with Campbell Walker, also known as Truthless. He's an artist, 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: he's a YouTuber, he's an author, he's a dad, he's 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: a former tattoo artist, once upon an ad guy and 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: a wonderful man. Cam has a new book out now. 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: It's called Doom and Bloom. You can hear him chatting 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: about that on the Imperfect podcast in a couple weeks 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: from now. He was in town chatting with those guys, 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: and while he was in town, we took the opportunity 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: to take fifteen minutes to grab a couple photos for 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: some long lead hard copy press that's coming out, and 13 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: jump on the podcast really quickly on my show to 14 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: talk about working together on my brand new book, which 15 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: is out on the fifth of August. It's called So 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 1: What Now What. In this conversation, Cam and I talk 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: about the process that we use. We talk about the 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: main character of the book, which at this point has 19 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: been completely secret, and we'll get to that right after this. 20 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: Good day, Welcome to the show. This is better than yesterday. 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: Practical tools and useful conversations to help you make today 22 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: better every single week since twenty thirteen. My name Zosha Ginsburg, 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: and I'm grateful that you are here. I'm thrilled to 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: tell you that you can pre order my brand new book. 25 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: So what now, what right now? There's a link in 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: the show notes pre order it and it doesn't cost much. 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: And if you do pre order it, email me a 28 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: screenshot of your receipt. Send usher email at gmail dot com. 29 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: Email me a screenshot of your receipt, and I will 30 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: send you a little something to say thank you, a 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: coloring in poster of your very own featuring the main 32 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: character of the story. Now, my first book, which came 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: out in twenty eighteen, is a memoir, and it is 34 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: being rereleased, So if you don't have a hard copy 35 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: of that, it's altum still an ebook an audiobook, But 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: if you don't have hard copies, coming back into the shops. 37 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: But when it came to doing a second book, I 38 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: haven't really lived much since I've put that one out. 39 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: I've put some extra bits into a second edition around 40 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, but I couldn't really write another memoir based 41 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: on five years, so instead I wrote the very book 42 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: that I wish I had on the days where I 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: was not doing very well with my mental health. Much 44 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: like the reason I started this podcast, I wanted to 45 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: hear the kind of conversations that I needed to hear 46 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: when I was struggling. I wrote so what now What? 47 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: Because when I was not doing very well with my 48 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: mental health, I needed to read a book like this, 49 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: but I couldn't find anything like it, and so I 50 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: made it. It's the kind of book you would grab 51 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: when you tried everything else, but you still feel a 52 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: bit stuck, or you might be trying to understand how 53 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: someone that you really care about keeps going in circles 54 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: and things only seem to be getting worse for them, 55 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: and you can't understand why they won't stop doing what 56 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: they're doing. It's specifically written for the kind of people 57 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: who aren't really used to asking for help, or I 58 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: might be a little bit concerned that if they do 59 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: ask for help, it might impact them negatively. Now, I 60 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: wanted this book to be as powerful as possible, so 61 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: I'm made absolutely sure that I worked hand in glove 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: with an eminent Australian psychologist, and they made absolutely sure 63 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: that all the messages or the metaphors all the techniques. 64 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 1: Everything I talk about in this book, everything we show 65 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: in this book absolutely legit. Because some of the stuff 66 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: in the book can be quite complicated. So to make 67 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: some of the concepts and the tools easier to understand, 68 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to use illustrations to explain everything. Now, I'm 69 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: not bad at sketching, I'm okay, but I am not 70 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: an artist. So I need an artist. And there's only 71 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: one artist that I wanted to make this book with, 72 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: only one person who could understand what it is that 73 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: I was trying to do. Only one person who could 74 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: get exactly the kind of concepts that I wanted to 75 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: put on the page. And that person is Campbell Walker. 76 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Cam Walker also known as Struthless sixty nine on Instagram. 77 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: He's Truthless on YouTube. 78 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: Now. 79 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: Cam Walker and I have been friends for quite a while. 80 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: He made the if you saw my first live show, 81 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: there was a video that played before the show that said, Hey, 82 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: by the way, there's going to be some pretty rankshit 83 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: coming up, so just hold your head because it's going 84 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: to be on the way. So he made the warning 85 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: video that played at the start of the show. And 86 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: he's incredibly talented human being. He's a fantastic communicator, a 87 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: brilliant dad, hilarious, and even though he is supremely busy 88 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: doing all of those things and launching his own book, 89 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: Doom and Bloom, which you can get right now, he 90 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: said yes when I asked him to illustrate this book 91 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: now for one of a better word. So what now? 92 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: What is a graphic novel? It is a conversation between 93 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: the book itself and the main character of the book, 94 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: which Cam and I will talk about in just a moment. 95 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: And I am incredibly proud of it. Like I said, 96 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: you can pre order it right now. If you do, 97 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: you're helping me help other people because pre orders play 98 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: a really huge role in publishing. The level of demand 99 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: for pre orders gives booksellers and the publishers a bit 100 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: of an idea of how hard they can push this 101 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: and where they should push it and how many, say, 102 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: for example, books a bookshop will order knowing that they 103 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: won't be stuck with them on the shelves. So ideally, 104 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: I want to help as many people as possibly can 105 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: with this book because is not very long, it doesn't 106 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: cost much. But the last time I did I put 107 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: out a book, I did a sold out national tour. 108 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: It was super fun. We are locking in the final 109 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: venues right now because I am going to tour again, 110 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: and you'll hear me talking about what I want to 111 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: do in the tour in a moment. This show is 112 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: going to be like something, something like no one's ever 113 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 1: seen before. I really hope I can make it happen. 114 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: I'm so proud of this book. I'm so grateful I 115 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: got to make it with Cam. This book is, if anything, 116 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: is more like a tool that you can come back 117 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: to every time you might need it. So here's a 118 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: little bit of a conversation that I had with my 119 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: dear friend, the incredible artist Cam Walker. And if you 120 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: like what you're here, get into the show notes. You'll 121 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: find a link to pre order a copy of So 122 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: What Now What, and possibly some details about a live 123 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: tour as well. Enjoy this catch up with the artist 124 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: of So What Now What, Cam Walker. We talked about 125 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: the kind of year you've had to if you've been 126 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: through a fucking ton of shit and in the middle 127 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: of that, I call you up and say, hey, Cam, 128 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 1: I know that you've just done all this wild stuff 129 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: and you are hanging on to the world's most dangerous 130 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: world road in the world with your fingernails. Would you 131 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: like to dedicate a couple months of your life to 132 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: illustrating a pot for me? Yeah? 133 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: And I said, yeah sure. And then you said, and 134 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 2: the main characters are hand which if you don't draw, 135 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: that's annoying. 136 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: Hands are hard. There's a reason most cartoon characters have gloves. Yeah, 137 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: and then three fingers and three fingers or no, no, 138 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: no opposable thumb. Their hands are really hard. As you 139 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: once said to me, and I quote to everybody, the 140 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: hand is the eye of the arm. That's true. 141 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: And honestly, like, no shade on Finding Nemo. But they 142 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: kind of had it easy. No hands, bro, think about it. 143 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: If you're just doing eyes and answer more vised facial expressions. 144 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: I take that back. Yeah, they had to put in 145 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: way more. I don't need to have these thoughts out loud. 146 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: I just agree. I'm going back to watch Finding Nemo. 147 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: I've dived on the actual dive site that inspired the 148 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: opening scene. That's sick. It's in Fiji, It's fucking that's sick. Yeah. 149 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: The people from picture one of them, we're like, this 150 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: is the place, this is where we're on the film. Oh, 151 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: that's so cool. It's whether there's this big kind of 152 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: ridge line that ends, it goes down like I don't 153 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: know kilometer, and so you get a big pellagic cold 154 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: water fish that mix with the tropical fish right at 155 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: the top of it. Oh wow, thanks for rescuing me. Great, 156 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: it's a long way down, but it's yeah, it's really good. 157 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: So yes, we drew a hand character. We drew a 158 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: hand character, and so I ask you, like, can you 159 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: can you do this for me? Because adore the work, 160 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, adore the the way that you communicate, And 161 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: there was no one else so I ever would wanted 162 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: to illustrate this book. And I was just so grateful 163 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: with the robustness that you just launched into it, even 164 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: though I gave you all main carrige. It's a fucking hand. 165 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: One of the hardest things ever to draw and make 166 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: look expressive. Like the hand's got to be sad, the 167 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: hand's got to be excited, the hand's got to be running. Yeah, yeah, 168 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: which is really fun. 169 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: And then even you'd sort of like broken the rules 170 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: of hands as well, because you're like, Okay, I want 171 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: the pinky to have like four more joints in it 172 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: so it can do like all of this kind of 173 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: like sassy stuff. 174 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: With occasionally the hands hand goes on a hip. So 175 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: I think I do remember going to school with a 176 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: kid that could do some cool shit with his little 177 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: finger like that, and it would make people vomit. He's 178 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: in jail now, probably if your trick is to make 179 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: your knuckles bend backwards. Yeah, dude, you're already on a list. 180 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: Iay watch this. Yeah that guy. 181 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you said yes, yeah, it was real fun 182 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: and then like when you're like, okay, I want it running, 183 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 2: and then I was like, okay, I just watched Fantasia. 184 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: You got to rewatch it every year, especially part with 185 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: like whatever, and so I was like, oh, I can 186 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: like Sorcerer's Apprentice the glove and have the glove like 187 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,599 Speaker 2: sort of running and running and running. And that was 188 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 2: really fun because it gave it like so much personality. 189 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 2: And then we yeah, ended up kind of. 190 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: Making the face a little bit rubber hosey, which is 191 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: real fun. That's kind of old stylee. 192 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: Mickey Mouse, which by the way, you can absolutely use 193 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: it is copyright free. Yeah as of two years ago. 194 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: Really Oh yeah, man, put Steamboat Willie on a shirt, 195 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: do it? 196 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: Make some money. It's public domain, baby. Oh wow. I 197 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: asked you to do some pretty wild stuff. And one 198 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: of the reasons that I wanted you and only you 199 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: to do this is because I knew that when I 200 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: said to you, I'm going to need a metaphor for this, 201 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: but it involves a whole and a labrador and a 202 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: typographic monster with two shovels. You went, no problem, Yeah, yeah. 203 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, Yeah for sure. I mean, you were super 204 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: specific with the brief and it made total sense to me. 205 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: You know, when you get like to a point of 206 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 2: like telepathy because someone's communicating quite clearly, and you're like, yeah, 207 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: I know exactly what's in your head. You don't need 208 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: to say the rest of the words, but I can 209 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 2: do it, and you're trying to get it out of 210 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 2: your head into mind so my hands can put it 211 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: onto the paper. 212 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: That's probably how I. 213 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: Felt then, But now as you say it out loud, 214 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, that was That was pretty fucking weird, dude. 215 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: But that's also why I wanted you to do it, 216 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: because because they when I first got the book deal, 217 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: they said, oh, we could get this out of so 218 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: that I still we could just you know, get someone, 219 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, nah, I won't be able to communicate this 220 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: to anybody except camp. 221 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 2: It was really it was such a such a pleasure 222 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 2: to draw as well, because I think the thing that 223 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: really helped with that process was when I also, you know, 224 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: when they when they will put me forward to do 225 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 2: the layouts as well. So it's like I've done the illustration, 226 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: and in my head, I had this sort of idea 227 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: of how I wanted the text to play with all 228 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: of the things, and how I wanted all the backgrounds, 229 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: and how I wanted each page to look like it's 230 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: own artwork, because I feel like the book you wrote, 231 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: you know, it's the one hundred and something pages, and 232 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: each page has its own lesson, and I wanted I 233 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: don't know, in my head, I had it like envisioned 234 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: it's sitting on somebody's stand, on one of those open 235 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: bookshelfy things where it could be there, and I'm like, okay, 236 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: I want to make each page worthy of that position in. 237 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: A room that it exists by itself. 238 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, And so I was going from that 239 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: as my starting point, and I don't know, maybe it's 240 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: what we're talking about before the fixation. 241 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: Just like just cap going and it was so much fun. 242 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: You absolutely nail that that. You've got to do the layout. 243 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: And for people that don't know what layout is is 244 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: I don't know, a picture of magazine you know you'll 245 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: see or maybe a website, right, you see, there's a 246 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: headline at the top, there's usually some boulder font something 247 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: in italics, with a byline. There's a photo, usually some 248 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: metallica to make that, and then a couple of paragraphs 249 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: and then an ad for some depending on who you are, 250 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: either nine out of ten people over fifty can't believe 251 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: they missed out on this, and then the rest of 252 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: the article all right, yeah, which is me. So that's layout, yay. 253 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: But that can tell the story. It can to detract 254 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: from the story, Like anytime you've sat. If I ever 255 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: use a web breas that doesn't have ad blockers on it, 256 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, how the fuck do people deal with all 257 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: this flashing shit? So I have everything locked down? The 258 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: layout can either detract or really amplify. And what the 259 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: fact that you got to do the layout just amplified 260 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: so much of it, even things like colored choices of 261 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: backgrounds in converse to you know, the antithesis of that 262 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: point twenty pages ago. It's unbelievably well thought out. 263 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: Man. 264 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: Oh thanks, man, I appreciate it. It was so cool. Yeah, 265 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: it's really cool. And like got to desem my own 266 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: font for it, which was really fine. 267 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I don't know, just like putting everything on 268 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: the page and just feeling this holistic sense of like 269 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: aesthetic ownership. 270 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: It was beautiful, just taking a moment away from cam 271 00:12:53,160 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: Walker play some ads back in a sec. What I 272 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: really liked as well is that when I was trying 273 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: to pitch something that wasn't working, or you were doing 274 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: something that wasn't quite mixing the mark, missing the mark, 275 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think we ever had a 276 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: moment where I was like, fuck you, it's going to happen. 277 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: It was like okay, man, sure, yeah absolutely, if that 278 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: doesn't land take it away. Yeah I was. I was 279 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,719 Speaker 1: so wonderfully detached from like I just wanted to do this. 280 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: How do I get it to do this? I'm not 281 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: attached to I love that we were able to do that. 282 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 283 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: Thanks. I haven't had a working relationship like that for 284 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: a while, and really, well, I mean I have really 285 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: created working relationships but it was very It was a 286 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: really positive thing because we're both creating this thing. It's 287 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: no longer just mine, it's ours. We have to both 288 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: be cool with it, and both our names are going 289 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, and I really really liked that we 290 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 1: were able to do that. This is act. This is 291 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: the very iPad that I did a lot of that sketching. 292 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: True, I like to bring him one point of tension 293 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: and take your handwriting. 294 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm terrible. It's so bad the work. 295 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 2: It is like you'd make it like obviously your parents adopts. 296 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: You know that's true. I'm gonna I'm gonna bring up 297 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: for I've got some. I've probably got some, so yeah, 298 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: I want everyone to just bring up an original. I'm 299 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: going to bring up an original, one of my original sketches. 300 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: A lot of these were done on the plane. Your 301 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: sketches are good. Thank you, you're very good at drawing. 302 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: And then thank you. 303 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: And then it's just these like it's like reading shorthand 304 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: and like a like you know when you read like 305 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: old court documents and there's someone who would like do 306 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: like the squiggles and stuff. 307 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one. I've got one of the original 308 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: sketches here. It's about the one regarding cognitive fusion, which 309 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: is a very difficult thing to talk about, but it's 310 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that really distracted me. That's that one. Yes, 311 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: and the idea was that you have this thought, and 312 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: the thought is so intense and so visceral that it's 313 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: like you're getting sucked into the horror movie and suddenly 314 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: you're there. I don't know if you remember that. Yeah, 315 00:14:59,080 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: this is exactly what I mean. 316 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: And it's like, these are super legible sketches in my opinion, 317 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: like I completely understood what you were talking about. It's like, yeah, 318 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: Glovey's watching a horror movie. Then that horror movie feels 319 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: like it's alive, and then it's like, yeah, here's the Runes. 320 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, you're decide for those genius. 321 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I listened to a lot of Viking metal. 322 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, here's my impression of every language at once. 323 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: There was a couple of a couple a couple of 324 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: the sketches were which I'm stoked about. A couple of 325 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: the sketches were my actual hand because I would be 326 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: I was like, how do I draw the hand? I 327 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: want to do that, and so I would hold the 328 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: iPad like this and take a photo of my hand 329 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: in the position I wanted it, and then sketch over 330 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: it and then put the face on it, and a 331 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: couple of them made it into the book, see, which 332 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: I'm stoped for. 333 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely made it left so I could, like, 334 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: you know, do it lifetime. 335 00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: And I'm glad you did because the live show. So 336 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,359 Speaker 1: the next live show, you wanted me to make a puppet, 337 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: like a giant, life sized puppet that I inhabit. Yeah, 338 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: inhabit yeah. 339 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, analogue and you're like, nah, dude. 340 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: So I'm working with a guy who's the professor at 341 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: one of the art schools here in Sydney, and with 342 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: another mate who worked on the Minecraft movie, and to 343 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: live motion capture my actual hand are using a hacked 344 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: VR headset wearing a head band with an iPhone twelve 345 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: on the front that captures my face. And I'm glad 346 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: you made at a left hand. This is why I'm 347 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: glad you made at left hand, because then my right 348 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: hand can bring it and bring out the layers. And 349 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: so the live show is me with that projected behind me, 350 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: using all the InDesign layers and bringing them up on 351 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: the screen and like doing the show live. You're looking 352 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: at me like a coykup right now, is it? Because 353 00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: what's awesome? 354 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: I think, like because I knew you wanted to do 355 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: a moke cap, but I think in my head there 356 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 2: was somebody else doing it and so you could interact 357 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 2: with them. But the fact that you're doing it all 358 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 2: day yourself, you're like Beardy Man or something. 359 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: It'll be man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like just doing 360 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: it all at once. Well, because you know, Reggie Watts, 361 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: it's not the eighties, man, you can't take twelve piece 362 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: funk bands on the road anymore. You've got to do 363 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: it by yourself, like every other person i'd take on 364 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 1: the road, Like ah you imaginet start to get out 365 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: the window. So it's like, how can I do this 366 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: with as little few people as possible? And yes, so 367 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: pretty much. So I've yet to figure out. I yet 368 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: to do the proof of concept, but I think that's 369 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: going to be it. I think that's going to be 370 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: the show, and that it's so we because it's a 371 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: conversation between a book and a glove. Yeah, this is normal, 372 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: this is normal. So the book is the whole book 373 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: is a conversation. Okay, So I'm thinking the live show 374 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: will be Glovey, which we call Bookie and Glovey We'll 375 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: called it Glovey will be reading it in their voice 376 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: because I couldn't figure out how to turn the moke 377 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: cap off off and be the voice of the book 378 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to be overly cranky or have 379 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: the pathos really get in there from the book voice. 380 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: I want a glove to be curious and go, huh, 381 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: how would you know? Like it's reading the text as 382 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: it comes up. Oh well, I guess, and they're responding. 383 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: Glove is responding to the text that comes up. The 384 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: other characters are simply the text coming on the screen. 385 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: So ambitious. 386 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: I love it. 387 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: I love it so much so I keep swearing, but like, yeah, dude, 388 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: that is awesome. Are you kidding me? What's the name 389 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: of that? I can't remember. Here's the fucking unbelievable. Is 390 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: the greatest baseball player that's ever lived as a Japanese 391 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: guys playing for the LA Dodgers. And on the night 392 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: you know how they have the bubble head nights and 393 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: stuff like that, every literally every child wins a baseball bat. 394 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: Some nights, it's amazing, it's incredible. Merch is brilliant. But 395 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: on his bubble head night, he walks out to the 396 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: plate and he points at the fence and he goes 397 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: pink hits this fucking tater and goes straight over exactly 398 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: where he wants. Mad Homer like, you've got a point 399 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: for the fence and you got to hit. You might 400 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: not get it, but you've got to go for it. 401 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: You've got to go for it. That's sick. That was 402 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: Campbell Walker, also known as Struthless on YouTube, s Truthless 403 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: sixty nine on Instagram. Of course, his new book is 404 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: called Doom and Bloom and the book that we worked 405 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: on together, the book we've just been talking about, is 406 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: called So What Now? What is my new book, and 407 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: you can pre order it right now. If you pre 408 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: order it, you're helping me, you're helping other people who 409 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: don't know yet that this book exists by pumping it 410 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: up in whatever kind of messaging that the publishers and 411 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: bookstores need to know. It really helps us and helps 412 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: people you don't know, because somebody who cares about them 413 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: will hopefully buy it for them and give it to 414 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: them if they're struggling, and that's the whole idea. You 415 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: can pre order the book right now. There's a link 416 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: in the show notes. If you do, screenshot your invoice, 417 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: your receipt, you proof of purchase, whatever you want to 418 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: call it, Send it to me, send usher email at 419 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: gmail dot com is my email address, or DM it 420 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: to me and I'll send you something to say thank you. 421 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. But thanks to Adam 422 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: Buncher who worked late to get this one together. Back 423 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: here on Wednesday, Merck Watts is coming to join us. 424 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: Have a great day.