WEBVTT - #2046 Exercise in a Pill - Dr. Bill Sullivan 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.760 I'll get a team. Welcome to another instorm and of 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:07.600 the show. It's Tiffany and Cook. It's Professor William Sullivan Junior. 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.039 We're going to call him that. It's me, Craig Anthony Harper, 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:14.160 the bloody buffed from Latro Valley who just keeps turning 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:16.800 up every day to do this. We'll start with the lady. 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.840 I use the term reservedly because she does. She's looking around. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:23.200 She's looking around? 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.480 Is that me or is it today? 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:27.960 You're a lady, You're a lady. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.120 We know you're a lady, tiff That is Monday, eleven 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.599 thirty four in the am. How's your weekend being? Did 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.720 you have a good weekend? What have you got on 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:36.200 this week? 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.280 Had a great weekend, got out on the bike. It 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.040 was really sunny. That made me happy. Then it rained 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:44.880 for a lot and that didn't make me happy. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:46.240 All the things. 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.120 Yeah, tell all the lady listeners, of which is most 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.800 of our audience. For some strange reason, what attracts you 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.840 about riding a motorbike that will go zero to one hundred, 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:02.760 or in doctor Bill's language, zero to sick in three seconds? 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.640 What is it about you that high octane high horse 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.720 power vehicles do for the lady that is you. 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:14.039 It's visceral, it's tactile, it's sensory, and it shuts out 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.600 everything else you got. There's not many things that can 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.280 give you enough to feel and see and experience and 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.400 focus on that can shut out all the other noise. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:29.240 There's boxing. Boxing. Was that for me and the motorcycle? 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:31.800 I love it, especially when. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.800 I got that exhaust last year. Harps, Oh my goodness. 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:36.840 Wow, wow, that's it's all about the sound. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.120 Well, the power and the speed and the acceleration are good, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:42.760 but when it sounds like a fucking mobile like volcano 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.600 as well, when you got that little bit of do 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:47.960 you know what's interesting? Doctor Bill can tell us why 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.680 this happens, but like what will be for you? Almost 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.480 like a hypnotic calming. You know, everyone knows I ride 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.720 motorbikes as well, but for me, I'm almost in my 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.600 happiest place when I'm on a motorbike, which for someone 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.480 else will be their most stressful place. Isn't it funny 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.280 how you can have a person on the front who's 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:13.440 producing you know, dopamine and bloody, all the good stuff, right, 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.720 and then someone sitting on the back on the same day, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.440 on the same motorbike going to the same place. Who's 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.960 in a complete state of stress and anxiety and panic. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.840 When I'm going really fast within the speed limit. Of course, 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.600 of course, sometimes I just squeal under my helm. I'll 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.760 get that excited. I just squeal. It's the best, the 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:34.520 best feeling. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.239 I do that, But for different reasons, Doctor Bill, what 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.239 are your what's your take on all of this drivel? 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:44.720 I guess when I was young, I would be the 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.760 same way. You're kind of more adventurous, and you have 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.440 more of a you know, a reckless spirit, and you 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.880 really start to feel more alive, you know, when you 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.080 kind of risk your life a little bit, or you 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.120 know there's a danger there, just the emotions get so palpable. 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.920 Then I think people realize that, hey, I'm living a 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.120 life here and it can actually end. So maybe you 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:10.400 get some enjoyment from that. 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.240 Yeah, it's that fine line between absolute ecstasy and it 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.200 sounds weird, but like when you're on a motorbike, there's 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.959 not many places or experiences. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.640 Where you're more vulnerable, especially when you're going. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.680 Quick and you know that like literally four inches below 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:32.400 your foot is. 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.000 The road and. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.880 You know you and the road and you're going one 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.160 hundred kilometers or sixty miles an hour or in your case, 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.960 one hundred and eighty kilometers an hour, and if you 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.160 come off, that's it. That's the end of the story. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.560 I don't know what we find so attractive. I don't 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.840 think it's that bit, but there's something about it. Hey, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:55.880 doctor Bill, I want to ask you before we dive 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.920 into today's topic, which Melissa rang me up and she went, 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:05.760 doctor Bill sent through a potential topic for today, and 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.960 my hackles came up straight away, as you would imagine, 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.240 because I'm the exercise science guy and so we're talking 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:17.880 about there was an article called something like scientists are 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.360 working out how to put exercise in a pill or 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.720 the exercise pill or something like that. But before we 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.480 jump into that, I want to ask you, what are 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:28.480 your thoughts. 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.159 On AI in academia. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.880 It's just like, because I'm just finishing my research now 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.200 and I'm about hopefully four weeks away from hand and 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.960 stuff in, but there's just a huge I know, my 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.920 university which is called Monash University in Australia, and Melbourne 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.480 University and Deacon University and Latrobe University, like a lot 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.120 of the universities around where I am. 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:53.279 It's pretty complex. 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.080 They're trying to figure out how do we because there's 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:57.880 never going to be a world without well for the 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:02.000 foreseeable future, without AI, how do we integrate it or 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.920 avoid it? Like, what do we do with it? How 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.600 do we stop people from chating? How do we use 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:12.040 it in an intelligent why where people are still getting 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.599 the knowledge and still understanding what they're doing without having 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.240 essentially II write their exams or write their papers. 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:20.560 What are your thoughts about all that? 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.280 Yeah, just give me a second. I'm going to check 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.160 chat GPP and find out. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.880 Yeah, why don't you Why don't you say what chat 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:30.160 JP thinks of it? 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.880 I think chat GTP might be a little biased in 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:41.080 how it perceives its utility. But you're asking the million 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.920 dollar question. We just had a faculty meeting not even 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.520 a month ago, trying to wrap our head around what 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.560 we're going to do, what sort of policies we're going 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:53.520 to have to put in place for students for thesis dissertations, 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.240 and what sort of policies we're going to put in 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:02.520 place for exams and for equity too. Faculty are utilizing 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.680 AI tools to grade exams, you know, on a faster 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:11.080 and larger scale, and perhaps even right exams. So this 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:15.440 is going to have repercussions at all levels throughout academia, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:20.679 just as it is doing in other businesses. So yeah, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:25.440 we really don't have a concrete answer at the moment, 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.200 but obviously we're well aware that these tools exist, they're 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.479 being heavily utilized. It's not going to go away. It's 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.000 going to be extremely difficult to police that sort of 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:40.960 activity on both sides for students and faculty. And I 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.920 mean there's concerns with like scientific and medical journals too, 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.280 with researchers having AI write a portion or even the 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:53.800 majority of that paper for them. So yeah, those are 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:58.880 really valid and pertinent questions, and we could probably talk 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:00.800 for a whole hour and still not come up with 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.320 an answer. But yeah, that's like a topic for a 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:10.360 whole you know, a series of your podcast. What we've 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.240 decided to do at the moment, like most academics do, 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:18.200 is table it and you know, let it incubate for 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:22.280 a while in our heads and you know, maybe brainstorm 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.640 and try to come back with some ideas, you know, 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:32.160 some basic guidelines and my sense and I could be 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.040 totally wrong about this, but my sense is that there 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.720 is not going to be a feasible way to ignore 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:43.160 these technologies or these tools. Rather, I think they're going 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:49.640 to have to be embraced and incorporated into the way 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:54.760 we go about generating knowledge and writing in the future. 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.120 And a part of that really scares me because as 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.400 an author and a writer, you know, these tools can 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:06.120 easily overtake a lot of positions out there and leave 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:12.240 big voids in the human you know, marketplace for writers 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.240 and editors and things like that. So what I can 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.560 what I can tell you so far in a nutshell, 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.120 is that AI tools that are being used for like 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.880 spelling and grammar check don't raise as many red flags 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.000 even though they did, you know, a few years ago. 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.839 They don't raise the same flags anymore right now. Then 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.280 you know the extraordinary ability that AI has currently achieved 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.120 in writing full content, and it's getting more and more 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:45.440 impressive and accurate by the day. Yes, So that's the 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.360 challenge we have to face, and I, like I said, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.440 I don't think it's going to go away because we've 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:55.280 already accepted, you know, the computerized tools that were frowned 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.160 upon just five or ten years ago. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.839 One of the I think is maybe an issue. I 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.000 don't know. This is purely nobody said this. I haven't 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.640 read it. This is just my chat. JPT didn't tell 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:08.920 me this. 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.400 I think, like, what's interesting is so I'm sixty two, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:17.920 you're a bit younger than me. I think in the 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.600 ballpark and at where I'm at, Monash University, which is 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:27.360 a pretty highly regarded uni, like the decision makers are, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.920 without being rude, mostly old, and I think I don't 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.760 think they're really all over AI yet. These are the 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.040 guys and the women who are making the decisions about AI, 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.240 and like some of the young people, the shit that 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.200 they can do, the stuff that they can create and 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:49.560 produce in next to no time. Like Melissa, who's my 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.520 business partner, is thirty seven, so she's twenty five years 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.560 younger than me. She's got a double degree in psychology 0:09:55.559 --> 0:10:00.720 and commerce. And her aptitude and you know, her ability 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.599 with everything tech and tifts the same. She's about a 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.920 little bit older than Melissa, but not a lot. But 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:11.079 I look at her do stuff and I just think, well, 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.240 I just don't have that aptitude. I guess I'm better 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.679 than the average person my age but I don't have 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:17.199 that skill. 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:17.760 I don't have it. 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.920 I didn't grow up with that language. It's like the 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.400 kids now are growing up. It's like we grow up 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.560 speaking English, we grow up speaking technology now, whereas I 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.720 grew up speaking you know, BMX and skateboard and football, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.640 that was it. It's just like, I wonder how we're 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:38.040 going to go when the people who. 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.760 Are actually in the positions of power and making decisions 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.320 within the universities, they're not even fluent in the stuff 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:45.679 they're making decisions about. 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.400 Yeah, that's a good point. And you may remember too 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.280 when you were a little craig when books were introduced 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.200 from the printing press. Do you remember when that was invented? 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.959 Yeah, yeah, fifteen sixty two. Yeah, I was ten. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.800 Well that was just doctor Jesus and the Apostles and 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:09.000 I had lunch on the beach in Galilee. Come on, bro, 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.240 that was just I'll tell you what that day when 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.240 he walked on the water and me and Michael and 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.800 James we bought all those fishing. I tell you what. 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.040 He said, I'm going to make you fishes of men. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:20.240 That was a good day. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.760 I bet it was. But but seriously, when the written 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.920 word was introduced and started to get mass produced. There 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.520 was a lot of fear that this was going to 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.440 destroy people's brains because they wouldn't be able to remember 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.680 anything anymore if you wrote it down. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:42.760 So that's so true. The Internet in generals. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.840 Are to us now. But that was a very legitimate 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.240 and widespread concern amongst the older people of that day, 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:57.280 just like these AI tools are, you know, making older 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.000 people freak out today while the younger crowd embracing them 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:06.040 and doing some downray innovative and creative things with them. So, 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.600 like all things in life, you either adapt and change 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:15.360 with it, or you know, you go extinct or at 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:16.280 least endangered. 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.440 It is. It's an interesting time, and we get onto 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.960 the actual topic. But I like just riffing with you 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:22.640 in general. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.240 But there was a so there's a song at the moment, 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.920 which well as of yesterday anyway, it was the number 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.200 one country song on Billboard Digital, so number one on 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.960 the charts, blah blah blah, selling like people are buying it. 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:39.880 And I got that song and I sent it to 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:41.880 about five or six friends. I said, what do you 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.280 think of this? And everyone loved it, And everyone's like 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:47.160 that's amazing. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.400 Who is that? And I said, it's not who is that, 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.800 it's what is that? Right? That is AI? So this 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:54.199 is an AI. 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:58.960 Generated song, an AI generated artist, everything. And then so 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.680 I put that song on my social media and I 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.160 just said, you know, one, what do you think of this? 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.680 Like if you heard a song that you loved on 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.280 the radio or wherever. You just heard a song that 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.400 you loved and it just resonated with it just whatever 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.520 the buttons, the emotional or psychological or creative buttons that 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.040 it pushes, It pushes all your buttons and you love 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.240 that song, you love the melody or the words or 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.480 the whatever the experience of that song. And then you 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.560 find out that it's AI created. Would you listen to it? 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.400 Still? And virtually everyone went. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:37.120 No, And it's just so funny where I understand it, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.080 but I'm thinking, wow. So it's not even about the music, 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:44.360 it's about our thinking about how music should be created 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.880 or who should or shouldn't be able to Because the 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.080 truth is want it or not, like it or not. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.840 And I'm not pro or against because I think for me, 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:56.920 it's pointless. It's going to happen, doesn't matter if I'm 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.320 against it, or I just think it's a thing that 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.040 I find cure. I'm interested in the psychology of the 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:06.000 response is that, you know, people, for better or worse, 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.760 people love it. Some people love it, but then they 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:10.800 find out that it's not a human that's doing it, 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.280 and then they hate it. And you go, well that's 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.600 you don't hate the music, you hate how it came 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:16.439 into existence. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.200 Maybe that's right. I got two things to say about that. 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.520 First of all, what you're telling me is that AI 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:30.840 somehow wrote a good country song, which is something that 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:32.120 no human has ever. 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:38.720 Done, spoken and authorized by Professor William Sullivan Jr. Not 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.760 endorsed by the Youth Project at all. And don't marry 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.280 on that's so hurtful. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:50.000 Maybe Australian country music is very different than American country music, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.560 and I'm just staying joke. 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.040 Shout out to Keith Urban by the way, who's a 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:56.960 big listener of the show. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.640 There are lots of genres within the country. 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.680 You know, you pedals going backwards, stiff, Can you hear 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:10.720 those pedals? Yeah, he's just turning round. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.120 No. No, some of my best friends listen to the 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.600 country you know, it's but so so that that's the 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.760 first thing that came to mind. But the second thing, 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.440 what that reminds me of Craig The story of once 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.280 people learned out that it was artificially created rather than 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.800 by a human reminds me of the story of Milli Vanilli. 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:35.200 You remember these guys, Yeah, yeah, like early nineties or 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:35.800 something like that. 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.360 Yeah, correct, Tiff. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.560 You probably don't know Milli Vanilli. Right, it's not ice Cream, 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:46.040 It's it's this duo, this musical duo who were not 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.360 a music group at all. They were lip syncing the 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.720 whole time. They put two pretty faces and good dancers 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.520 out in front to lip sync this music that was 0:15:55.560 --> 0:16:00.960 actually sung by somebody else. And once people found that out, 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.200 once that story broke and they found out that these 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.040 guys were faking it, there were like bonfires of their 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:12.640 CDs and LPs, you know, lit on fire because people 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:17.520 were so angry at the deception. And maybe they see 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:22.280 AI generated music or writing as a deception of sorts, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.720 even though it kind of plagiarizes all of what humanity 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:32.400 has already done and assembles it in a way using algorithms, 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.360 assembles it in a way that plays into our psychology, 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.760 so it knows what we like and dislike. So yeah, 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.000 it reminds me of the whole million Vanilli thing. So 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.560 I totally understand the reaction of some of the people 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.520 that you said once they found out it was fake 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:54.600 or artificially generated. But I guess I guess personally, you know, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.800 if you like a song, you like a song, you 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.160 know you can't deny the fact that there's something about 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:05.000 it that you found enjoyable. So I'm not quite sure 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.760 I would deny myself that joy just because it was 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.840 generated by a computer. You know, the difference here is 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:18.720 that computer is drawing upon the collective contributions of human society, 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.000 so it's just putting them together in a way that 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.720 you know, a country artist would. And you know, I 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.600 guess I have a little more nuanced look at whether 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:37.680 I would discount the creation just because I found out 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.280 it was artificially generated. 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.200 Do you use AI in your research? Like it feels 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.760 like AI could do some of the grunt work that's not. 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:51.120 Particularly glamorous and then you do the actual thinking stuff. 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.160 Yeah. Well, those those sorts of rules and regulations are 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.520 currently being debated. You know, how much AI are we 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.200 going to to allow someone to use if they're going 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.160 to submit a grand application, for example, or a paper. 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.560 But AI is going to easily be utilized like within 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.439 data interpretation. And we're already seeing the evolution of tools 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.560 that can take huge, massive data sets and instead of 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:23.600 a human being toiling away for days, sometimes weeks, trying 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.600 to find something interesting in this data set, AI can 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.840 do it in seconds. See why you should I don't 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:32.399 see why you shouldn't take advantage of that. 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.359 Hund percent. All right on with the show. So with 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.600 that in mind, I knew I was going to ask 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:39.040 you about that. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.440 With that in mind, I asked chat Jpat to write 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.800 a show intro. So I'm being very transparent everyone. I 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.840 did not write what I'm about to read, and everything 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.680 up until now has been scripted by II old Doctor 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:53.320 Bill's staff. 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.359 Everything TIF said, I write it now, that's not true. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.120 That's not true. It's all organic. 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.399 Everything's always organic, unless I've otherwise notified this. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.119 What I'm about to read is not me. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:08.080 But what I love is it's learned how to write 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.480 a bit like I talk. Anyway, Here we go show intro. 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.679 That's what it says. Today, we're talking about something that 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.479 sounds like science fiction but is edging closer to science 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.960 fact the idea of exercise in a pill. We all 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.960 know that exercise is basically nature's Swiss army knife. It 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:30.040 improves mood, memory, sleep, immune function, metabolic health, longevity, brain plasticity, 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.760 and the list goes on. It's the closest thing we've 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.800 ever had to a true miracle drug. But for millions 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:41.040 of people, exercise is also incredibly difficult. Illness, age, injury, 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.399 chronic pain, disability, time pressures, or simply the realities of 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:45.880 life can get in the way. 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.640 So here's the big question. Scientists are now asking, if the. 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.920 Body creates powerful health boosting chemicals when we move, can 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.360 we isolate those chemicals and put them into a therapeutic form. 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.800 Two new studies suggest we might be, so then we think. 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.480 One found that hype, I'm not fucking up your message here, 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.439 doctor Bill. One found that factors released into the blood 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.480 during excise can literally stimulate new brain cell growth in 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.720 sedentory mice. Another discovered that sustained. 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.760 Physical activity boost production of a meta metabolite called betaine, 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.840 which seems to mimic some of exercises anti aging and 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.280 anti inflammatory effects. 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:23.919 So what does this mean for medicine? For healthy aging 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.679 for people who can't exercise, and what happens to us 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:32.720 psychologically psychologically if we outsource the physical effort to a pill. 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:34.800 To help us make sense of all of this, I'm 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.879 joined by Professor Bill Sullivan Junior, a geneticist, author, and 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.240 science communicator, to explore what these fightings mean, what's real, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.399 what's hype, and whether an exercise pill is in the 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.840 future or just a fascinating detour. Let's jump in. Welcome 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.040 to the show, Professor pil That's not bad, is it? 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:55.480 I mean, honestly not bad. It's great. It's really good. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.520 I mean, that's terror upon most of the major topics 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.840 that I spent hours researching, you know, to write the 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.479 article that I sent you. You know, it's it's just 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:11.080 a little scary. How fantastic the technology is. It really 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.480 hits on all the major points. So then you know, 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:16.440 until next time, Craig, you know. 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:22.000 I guess it's been great. So tell us tell us 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:23.040 about this idea. 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.760 When I first heard it, I'm like, I was just 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.719 philosophically opposed. But then I read the article and I went, okay, 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.959 I've got a greater understanding now, So I was I 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.360 was less opposed, but unpack up for us if you would. 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.359 No, I had the same reaction you did, as you 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.800 probably remember, I said on the show a number of times, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.119 I'm an avid runner. I love getting out there and 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:50.320 you know, running the trails and the feeling of that 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.960 is just, you know, remarkable, and I know it's really 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.680 good for my brain and body as well. So when 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.880 I first heard that someone can pack exercise into a pill, 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.560 or that this concept was being developed, it's kind of cringe. 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:07.720 You know, why would we even want to do such 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:11.760 a thing when exercise literally is kind of the best 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:18.639 medicine or Swiss army knife, as your AI generated text declared. 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.840 So yeah, I had that initial response, But then you 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.280 take a little pause and think about it for a moment, 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.200 and you're like, you know, I can think of certain 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.680 individuals where that could be a life saver. You know, 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.880 it maybe wouldn't be for me, maybe wouldn't be good 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.080 for you, Craig or Tiff wouldn't want to do it, 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:43.080 But no one's going to force you to. What this 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.080 is being developed for are for the individuals who cannot 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:53.160 avail themselves of opportunities to exercise. Just like your computer said, 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.320 so what are those cases, Well, people with injuries, people 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:03.280 with a debilitating disease might be bedridden, or or who 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.119