Speaker 1: Live on Sky News.
Speaker 2: This is Sharry.
Speaker 3: Thanks Andrew, Good evening, Welcome to the show. Tonight exclusive
Speaker 3: details of how Kevin Rudd has tried to draft Scott
Speaker 3: Morrison in to help him shore up support within the
Speaker 3: Trump administration. I'll also reveal that Chris Bowen has called
Speaker 3: Donald Trump the worst president in United States history. Well,
Speaker 3: Michael Kroger and Dave Sharma are fired up about this
Speaker 3: and they'll join me on the show. Also tonight, my
Speaker 3: exclusive interview with one of India's top government ministers. In
Speaker 3: the wake of Trump's win, he predicts global supply chains
Speaker 3: and trade will change forever. He also reveals the role
Speaker 3: India is playing in ending the Russia Ukraine War. On
Speaker 3: the show, the journalist who expose Tamasa's mistreatment of Palestinians
Speaker 3: destroying the left wing narrative, he'll join me live.
Speaker 4: And the Trump dance.
Speaker 3: That's taking hold across America, Well, we'll see if our
Speaker 3: panel Brodwin Bishop and Nick Cata can do the moves
Speaker 3: a little later. But first I can exclusively reveal that
Speaker 3: Kevin Rudd has tried to draft Scott Morrison in to
Speaker 3: help forge relationships with the Trump administration. There's even been
Speaker 3: discussion of an informal special Special Envoy roll. This comes
Speaker 3: as pressure mounts on Anthony Albanezi over his captain's call
Speaker 3: to appoint Rudd to the critical role of ambassador in
Speaker 3: Washington in a recognition that Rudd will struggle to build
Speaker 3: bridges with President Trump. He's been cultivating his own relationship
Speaker 3: with Scott Morrison over many months.
Speaker 4: He even launched his book in the US back in May.
Speaker 3: Multiple sources have told me that Rudd has been asking
Speaker 3: Morrison's assistance in dealing with the Trump team. My understanding
Speaker 3: is that Morrison won't give up his new business ventures.
Speaker 3: He's unlikely to accept any formal role as a special
Speaker 3: envoy that would mean representing the Albanese government, but he
Speaker 3: will help Rudd informally with ties to the Trump administration,
Speaker 3: particularly when it relates to Orcus and Australia's national interest.
Speaker 3: Clara O'Neill's former media advisor, Jason Katsukus, wrote an article
Speaker 3: in the left wing Saturday paper Back in June that said,
Speaker 3: and I quote. As the Albaneze government prepares for the
Speaker 3: possibility of a second term for Donald Trump, Scott Morrison
Speaker 3: is being considered as an informal envoy. But as I said,
Speaker 3: Morrison is unlikely to take on any formal role. He'll
Speaker 3: step in if it's in Australia's national interest. The Albaneze
Speaker 3: government has already relied on Morrison to help Rudd and
Speaker 3: Defense Minister Richard Miles seek assurances around Orcus with Trump
Speaker 3: and his core group, and Morrison has already acted as
Speaker 3: an informal ambassador.
Speaker 4: He's got a good relationship with Trump.
Speaker 3: He's one of the only Australians to have met with
Speaker 3: the President in the past year. But Peter Dutton today
Speaker 3: questioned whether Rudd's position as our ambassador was tenable.
Speaker 5: The ambassador has to have a functional, working relationship with
Speaker 5: the administration, whether that's a Democrat or Republican administration. Of course,
Speaker 5: it's not just mister Rudd. I mean, we're talking about
Speaker 5: mister Albanisi and Senator Wong and others in the Labor
Speaker 5: Party who have seen fit to criticize, to criticize President
Speaker 5: elect Trump.
Speaker 3: Our former ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma, he's on my
Speaker 3: show tonight and he also questions whether Rudd's job as
Speaker 3: Washington ambassador is sustainable.
Speaker 6: More and more public commentary is emerging of him not
Speaker 6: just being mildly critical of Trump in his administration, but
Speaker 6: quite personally nasty and vindictive. And this is the person
Speaker 6: who'll be the president of the most important security strategic
Speaker 6: alliance partner of Australia.
Speaker 3: And that full interview coming up shortly. But given his
Speaker 3: past comments, Rudd should be the last person to be
Speaker 3: representing Australia's interests. Rudd described Trump as a village idiot
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 7: So as that changes in China's favor, and as the
Speaker 7: United States in the last four years has been run
Speaker 7: by a village idiot.
Speaker 3: We revealed that on the show last night. It's been
Speaker 3: in the news everywhere today. In the past, Rudd also
Speaker 3: said that Trump was not a leading intellectual.
Speaker 4: Force, and Donald as we know, is not.
Speaker 5: A leading intellectual force.
Speaker 8: Now.
Speaker 5: He looked at a Trump rally and how many angry
Speaker 5: white men there are in those rallies.
Speaker 3: There were so many comments you wouldn't have enough time
Speaker 3: to play them all. And so this is what quite
Speaker 3: standably Donald Trump and his daughter in law Lara have
Speaker 3: said about Rudd so far.
Speaker 9: I don't know much about him. I heard he was
Speaker 9: a little bit nasty. I hear he's not the brightest bulb,
Speaker 9: but I don't know much about him. But if he's
Speaker 9: at all hostile, he will not be there long.
Speaker 10: It's a pretty tough comment to say, and I think
Speaker 10: that the problem oftentimes is when people say those things
Speaker 10: and don't have a change of heart. It's kind of
Speaker 10: hard to have a position like that where you'd want
Speaker 10: to keep someone who said such such nasty things about
Speaker 10: a person.
Speaker 3: And those Trump comments, of course, were from his interview
Speaker 3: with Nigel Farage back in March. And Trump's in a
Speaker 3: circle aren't going to be inclined to do rud any
Speaker 3: favors either.
Speaker 11: Ambassador Rudd should know that we got his number.
Speaker 9: He is trying to worm his way back into the
Speaker 9: good grace.
Speaker 2: Has been very critical President Trump in.
Speaker 3: The past, and that was an interview I did with
Speaker 3: Steve Bannon in February. There are claims that there have
Speaker 3: been discussions in labor circles about whether to shift Rudd
Speaker 3: to the role of Ambassador to the United Nations. Rudd
Speaker 3: would strongly resist such a move. It would be seen
Speaker 3: as a major demotion. Now, despite the crisis talks behind
Speaker 3: the scenes, Anthony Alberinezi and Penny Wong have publicly doubled down.
Speaker 2: They say they'll keep Rudd in the role.
Speaker 12: If hen Udd the.
Speaker 4: Writer in the US ambassador.
Speaker 6: Yes, he is a former prime minister, a former foreign minister.
Speaker 13: His experience and skills mean he will be able to
Speaker 13: work closely with whomever.
Speaker 3: But the truth is that Foreign Minister Pennywong never wanted
Speaker 3: to apport Rudd to this role. She never wanted him
Speaker 3: to be our ambassador in Washington. The Thin Review reported
Speaker 3: in March that mister Rudd was Alberizi's captain's pick for
Speaker 3: the Washington job, even though there were deep misgivings inside
Speaker 3: labor over the appointment. It's understood that Senator Wong, one
Speaker 3: of Albanese's closest confidants, was among those opposed. And now
Speaker 3: Pennywong has to publicly stand up and defend Kevin Rudd.
Speaker 3: And Rudd is now so out of touch with the
Speaker 3: Trump administration that he took Penny Wong and Richard Miles
Speaker 3: to see former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo thinking he
Speaker 3: was in Trump's inner group. But yesterday Trump went out
Speaker 3: of his way to publicly state that Pompeo wouldn't be part.
Speaker 4: Of his administration.
Speaker 3: But many in the Albernezer government probably agree with Rudd's
Speaker 3: views on Trump, and Chris Bowen is one of them.
Speaker 4: He wrote a book, well, you can't really call it
Speaker 4: a book.
Speaker 3: It's only forty pages long, so it's more like a
Speaker 3: pamphlet or a long pamphlet. He wrote this in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one. It's called On Charlatan's and in it he
Speaker 3: writes Donald Trump was the worst.
Speaker 2: President in United States history.
Speaker 3: His incoherent response to the COVID pandemic has cost hundreds
Speaker 3: of thousands of lives. He clearly put narcissistic self interest
Speaker 3: ahead of his country. That's Chris Bowen saying Donald Trump
Speaker 3: was the worst president in US history. And he also
Speaker 3: writes in this long pamphlet that he knew how to
Speaker 3: beat the likes of Donald Trump. Chris Bowen he even
Speaker 3: compared him with the Nazi known as German Fox.
Speaker 4: This is from Chris Bowen's book.
Speaker 3: He wrote that Bernard Montgomery famously kept a picture of
Speaker 3: Erwin Rummel on his caravan wall as he fought at Alamaine,
Speaker 3: so he had a constant reminder that he had a
Speaker 3: formidable foe and to help him meditate on what the
Speaker 3: opponent would do next.
Speaker 4: Chris Bowen writes, we don't need.
Speaker 3: Pictures of Scott Morrison or Trump or John on our wall,
Speaker 3: but we do need to be able to war game
Speaker 3: their moves. He says, I have distilled their approach down
Speaker 3: to four principal tactics that sum up the key to
Speaker 3: their success at being Charlatan's. These are dishonesty is the
Speaker 3: best policy, identity politics on steroids, hyperpartisanship, and constant.
Speaker 4: Fear and loathing of climate change.
Speaker 3: I've approached both Kevin Rudd and Chris Vohln for comment,
Speaker 3: no response so far, but clearly that's how some senior
Speaker 3: ministers in the Albanese government feel about the new president
Speaker 3: of the United States. Now, Albanesi's first test will be
Speaker 3: ensuring that in Australia we're exempt from the ten percent
Speaker 3: tariffs that Trump has said is imposing on countries around
Speaker 3: the world. But the issue is that Australia has no
Speaker 3: negotiating power With Rudd in the job, Rud is in
Speaker 3: no position to extract concessions for US. So Kevin Rudd
Speaker 3: is again putting himself above Australia's best interests and.
Speaker 4: That's the bottom line.
Speaker 3: Rudd is putting his own personal ambition, his ego, and
Speaker 3: his desire to live the ambassador's high life above Australia's
Speaker 3: national interest and the best interests of farmers, businesses and families.
Speaker 3: Well to discuss this, let's bring in now Victorian Liberal
Speaker 3: Party president, former Victoria Liberal Party President Michael Kroger and
Speaker 3: former Labor Minister Graham Richardson. Are welcome to you both. Well, Michael,
Speaker 3: you've been the strongest voice on this for over a week. Now,
Speaker 3: why do you think Rudd should either resign or be
Speaker 3: recalled by Anthony Albinezi.
Speaker 14: Well, you might say I'm the strongest voice, but I
Speaker 14: represent the views of nine to nine percent of people
Speaker 14: on the center in Australian politics. I think who completely
Speaker 14: agree Rudd must resign forthwith he's going to do a
Speaker 14: men's damage to Australia. Look at it this way, Shari.
Speaker 14: Donald Trump is going to appoint a new US ambassador
Speaker 14: to Australia in due course. If that ambassador was on
Speaker 14: the record saying that Anthony Albanesi, amongst all these other things,
Speaker 14: he said, Anthony Albanizi is a village idiot that ambassador.
Speaker 14: American ambassador comes to Australia. Albanize wouldn't see him. The
Speaker 14: Cabinet wouldn't see him, No one in the parliamentry Labor
Speaker 14: Party would see him, and no one in the opposition
Speaker 14: would see him. He would be a pariah and an
Speaker 14: outcasted last five minutes and the Americans would take him back.
Speaker 14: We're now stuck with the situation where everyone in America,
Speaker 14: because it's been on the front page your stories that
Speaker 14: others has been on the front page of the New
Speaker 14: York Times. Every politician America, every American Republican senator, member,
Speaker 14: the House of Reps, the White House, the business community,
Speaker 14: every governor, everyone in the political sphere in America knows
Speaker 14: about Rudd. He will be a harriah in America. He
Speaker 14: will be immensely damaging to Australia's interest. He will not
Speaker 14: get through the front door anywhere. And you'd look go
Speaker 14: back to two am Joe Hockey when Trump was trying
Speaker 14: to put steel tariffs around the world twenty fives and
Speaker 14: steel tariffs. Hockey and the team at the time moved
Speaker 14: heaven and Earth. And because of Australia's great relationships with
Speaker 14: the Americans and with Trump, they are able to stop
Speaker 14: those tariffs. Fast forward to today, Kevin Rudd won't get
Speaker 14: through the front entrance of the White House, nor the
Speaker 14: front entrance of Congress.
Speaker 3: And why should Trump, as United States President, be expected
Speaker 3: to deal with someone who's called him a village idiot.
Speaker 3: It wasn't just a one off comment. This is a
Speaker 3: pattern of behavior over several years.
Speaker 4: Richo.
Speaker 3: Do you agree that his position is ultimately untenable?
Speaker 7: Absolutely. I think it's ridiculous having him in the job,
Speaker 7: and I think he's got to if he can't realize
Speaker 7: it himself, and my sense of him always is he'll
Speaker 7: never realize it himself, then you've got a saki. You
Speaker 7: have no choice.
Speaker 12: Now.
Speaker 7: Elbow likes him, He's been a friend of Elbow's. I
Speaker 7: think Elbow's about his only friend, but he is a
Speaker 7: pretty important one. But I think Alba is just going
Speaker 7: to have to make the big decision and get rid.
Speaker 3: Of him, I mean, Richard, very quickly. It must be
Speaker 3: so frustrating for the likes of Penny Wong. She's Foreign Minister,
Speaker 3: she never wanted him as ambassador, and she's having to
Speaker 3: be out there every day defending right.
Speaker 7: Oh, it must be awful for her because we all
Speaker 7: know what she really thinks of him, which is what
Speaker 7: the rest of us think of him, and that's not
Speaker 7: very good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Well, it was bad news for Green's
Speaker 3: leader Adam Bannt this morning, and support for the Greens
Speaker 3: is plummeting. It's dropped to its lowest level since February.
Speaker 3: This is a survey from Resolve Political Monitoring and it
Speaker 3: shows that Michael not surprising to any of us, but
Speaker 3: voters disagree with the Greens on negative gearing, on capital
Speaker 3: gains tax and on Palestinian recognition. So, Michael, we still
Speaker 3: have the issue of preferences with Labor. They haven't come
Speaker 3: out and said they're not going to preference the Greens.
Speaker 3: Doesn't there need to be more pressure on Albanizi over this?
Speaker 14: Well, of course Albanzi needs to say he's not going
Speaker 14: to preference the Greens in every seat in this country.
Speaker 14: I mean, you know, let's be clear about this. This
Speaker 14: is Albanese's decision. There are twenty one members of the
Speaker 14: Federal Executive, the Labor Party, ten right, ten left in him.
Speaker 14: He has the casting vote. He can direct the federal
Speaker 14: director of the Labor Party to not preference the Greens
Speaker 14: or not preference the Greens in every seat. Surely there
Speaker 14: are some seats where he's going to preference the Liberals
Speaker 14: over some of the more extremist Greens. But what we've
Speaker 14: seen on the congratulations, the age, on their revelation on
Speaker 14: this this morning, you know what's happened in this country.
Speaker 14: I think the Greens vote has topped out because it's
Speaker 14: no longer fashionable for young people to support the Greens.
Speaker 14: And the reason is young people being told all their
Speaker 14: lives that racism is one of the worst things you
Speaker 14: can be accused of. And all of the Jewish hatred
Speaker 14: around the Green movement and their allies and hangers on
Speaker 14: as proof Palestinian move which is not anti Jewish, well,
Speaker 14: there's too much Jewish hatred emanating from these circles around
Speaker 14: the Green movements, and this has meant a lot of
Speaker 14: young people don't want have anything to do with the
Speaker 14: Greens anymore. It is no longer fashionable for young people
Speaker 14: to be involved with a movement that is full of
Speaker 14: Jewish hatred. And that's why I think the Greens have
Speaker 14: topped out. People think They're not an environmental party. They're
Speaker 14: an extremist bunch.
Speaker 3: I mean, the party has changed so much rito from
Speaker 3: when it did used to be an environmental party, as
Speaker 3: Michael just said, under.
Speaker 7: Bob Brown, well, under Brown, they used to care about trees.
Speaker 7: They never mentioned trees in this modern era ever. You
Speaker 7: never hear them talk about the environment. They have certainly
Speaker 7: become the far left of Australia and they're a pretty
Speaker 7: ugly looking bunch.
Speaker 3: We've been speaking a lot about on this show about
Speaker 3: the Albanese government's decision to put a billion dollars of
Speaker 3: tax pay funds in the PSI Quantum supercomputed deal. Now
Speaker 3: big news today in This Astralian that the Chris of
Speaker 3: Foley government in Queensland is going to review their stake
Speaker 3: in this. They could even revoke their four hundred and
Speaker 3: seventy million dollar investment.
Speaker 4: Michael.
Speaker 3: Their conflict of interest in this, the involvement of labor
Speaker 3: mates is immense. And again there's the question of why
Speaker 3: should a billion dollars of Australian taxpayer funds go into
Speaker 3: a startup when there are plenty of private equity firms arount.
Speaker 14: You know it shouldn't, nor should they be investing up
Speaker 14: to a billion dollars in solar panels, Sharry to compete
Speaker 14: against the Chinese. I mean, good luck with that. I mean,
Speaker 14: as you say, this is the job of the private sector.
Speaker 14: This is the job of venture capital firms and private
Speaker 14: equity firms here and overseas. I mean, if you try
Speaker 14: to ask any of those terms, would they invest in
Speaker 14: these proposals, the answer would be no. If you asked
Speaker 14: any Australia whether they'd lend money provide the debt facility
Speaker 14: to these firms, the answer would be no. This is
Speaker 14: this is very risky investments. The government shouldn't be making it,
Speaker 14: particularly at a time when the budget and the Australian
Speaker 14: debt is at record levels. And of course what they
Speaker 14: do is it's off balance sheet, so it doesn't appear
Speaker 14: in the in the you know, in the annual profit
Speaker 14: and loss. That's how they get away with these things.
Speaker 14: But the government shouldn't be doing this. This is not
Speaker 14: the job of the government to be a venture capitalist.
Speaker 14: They're not evel on Musk after all.
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 3: Look, the Auditor General has said that he'd consider an
Speaker 3: investigation that hasn't launched one yet. But rich O, you
Speaker 3: know the links have started to come out, the spider
Speaker 3: network of Labor.
Speaker 4: Connections to this.
Speaker 3: The process is so flawed the way this company had
Speaker 3: already met with Ed Hughesick well before any others got
Speaker 3: that sort of access. So you know, it is a
Speaker 3: good decision, isn't it That the Queensland l and P
Speaker 3: is now going to review their own funding.
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is this is a crook. Look, it's not
Speaker 7: about that. No matter which way you look at it.
Speaker 7: It's ugly and I don't know how Labor ever got
Speaker 7: this far down track. But if everything was a time
Speaker 7: to turn around and go back right now, is that time?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be messy to even get out
Speaker 3: of given you know what that company, the side Quantum
Speaker 3: company would have told that are the shareholders, the.
Speaker 4: Decisions they would have made.
Speaker 3: It's going to be a very messy process from here
Speaker 3: on all right, Michael Kroger, Graham Richardson, So great to
Speaker 3: have you as always, Thank.
Speaker 14: You, Thanks Sherry.
Speaker 3: Now there is growing concern inside the Coalition, as we've
Speaker 3: been speaking about about Kevin Rudd remaining in the role
Speaker 3: as US ambassador after Donald Trump's win. Well, I spoke
Speaker 3: with Liberal Senator Dave Sharma about this. As you know,
Speaker 3: he was our ambassador to Israel and he knows well
Speaker 3: just how crucial diplomacy is to your host nation. Here's
Speaker 3: what he had to say, Dave Sharma, thank you very
Speaker 3: much for your time.
Speaker 6: Thank you good even nice to join you.
Speaker 3: Do you think at this point Kevin Rudd's position as
Speaker 3: our ambassador in Washington is untenable?
Speaker 6: Well, I think they're the right to be asking that question.
Speaker 6: I mean, he is more and more public commentary is
Speaker 6: emerging of him not just being mildly critical of Trump
Speaker 6: and his administration, but quite personally nasty and vidictive. And
Speaker 6: this is the person who will be the president of
Speaker 6: the most important security strategic alliance partner of Australia and
Speaker 6: administration he will have to work with for the next
Speaker 6: four years. And he's on the public record. And presumably
Speaker 6: there's more that will resurface in a way that Trump
Speaker 6: and his advisors cannot but help notice. And I don't
Speaker 6: think it's getting the new relationship off to a good
Speaker 6: footing that we've got an ambassador there who has been
Speaker 6: so critical, I mean Kevin Rud and his job, his
Speaker 6: most important customer, if you like, is the United States.
Speaker 6: His client is the government Australia. His customer is the
Speaker 6: United States government. And he's been going around bad mouthing
Speaker 6: the customer to all and Sundry, Uphill and down Dale.
Speaker 6: It's not a good place to start this relationship.
Speaker 3: So do you think this was an unwise decision by
Speaker 3: Anthony Albinezi because it has been described as a captain's pick.
Speaker 6: Well, I think at the time, Anthony ALBERIZI you know,
Speaker 6: he knew about not only Rudd's difficulties in working with
Speaker 6: other people, which is well documented in his downfall, but
Speaker 6: also these things he said about Trump. And there were
Speaker 6: many people who counseled against this choice, given the volume
Speaker 6: and the vitriol of Rudd's public commentary. But Anthony Alberanzi
Speaker 6: took that decision eyes wide open, and even at the
Speaker 6: time he was appointed. I mean, Trump was always and
Speaker 6: has always been a likely candidate for the Republican nomination
Speaker 6: and a presidential candidate. And the fact that he did
Speaker 6: this knowing that, you know, it raises serious questions about
Speaker 6: the judgment he exercised in making this appointment.
Speaker 3: I mean, Joe Hockey famously had an excellent relationship with
Speaker 3: Donald Trump. We know they played golf together, but Kevin
Speaker 3: Rudd has never met Donald Trump. Is this unusual for
Speaker 3: an ambassador in such a crucial posting with one of
Speaker 3: our closest allies.
Speaker 6: I find it remarkable. I mean, the job of any
Speaker 6: ambassador is to get to know all the political leaders,
Speaker 6: current and future in a country. When I was in Israel,
Speaker 6: I knew the opposition leaders, the leaders of all the
Speaker 6: political parties, the past prime ministers and all the future
Speaker 6: prime ministers. Now, why Kevin Rudd has not been able
Speaker 6: to or has not thought it worth his time to
Speaker 6: secure a meeting with Donald Trump. Why he did not
Speaker 6: take Penny Wong and Anthony Albanisi and Richard Marles to
Speaker 6: see Donald Trump? Just biggas belief. I mean, before George W.
Speaker 6: Bush became the president in two thousand, many senior Australian
Speaker 6: political figures had met him, and Andrew Peacock, our ambassador
Speaker 6: at the time, had a personal relationship with him.
Speaker 3: Now, back in February this year, you asked Penny Wong
Speaker 3: in Senate Estimates why Kevin Rudd's criticisms of Donald Trump
Speaker 3: still remained on his social media accounts. You pushed Penny
Speaker 3: Wong on this, they didn't remove them. Instead, they waited
Speaker 3: nine months before Kevin Rudd deleted his tweets. It's now
Speaker 3: become a big story. It's in the New York Times,
Speaker 3: made an even bigger issue, amplified the issue of his
Speaker 3: offensive remarks.
Speaker 2: Have taken your advice back in February.
Speaker 6: I think they should have, and I raised those concerns
Speaker 6: in good faith, thinking this is not very tenable for
Speaker 6: our ambassador to the United States to still have on
Speaker 6: their public record these remarks, and the Department of Foreign
Speaker 6: Affairs and Trade, Penny Wong was offhand and dismissive and said, yeah,
Speaker 6: we'll take a look at your suggestion. But as you
Speaker 6: point out, it took them until I think the day
Speaker 6: of the election in Australia Tuesday, Australian time, before they
Speaker 6: remove these tweets, and then, of course that becomes the story.
Speaker 6: The New York Times covers the story, which means the
Speaker 6: US media knows about it, which means all of Trump
Speaker 6: and He's inner circle knows about it. This is a
Speaker 6: much bigger problem than it needed to be because of
Speaker 6: the way that Kevin Rudd and this government have handled it.
Speaker 3: At this point, there are businesses and farmers across Australia
Speaker 3: who are relying on Rudd to extract a concession from
Speaker 3: the Trump administration to exempt us from the ten percent
Speaker 3: tariffs that he intends to impose internationally. Clearly, Kevin Right
Speaker 3: wouldn't be the best person to do this. Do you
Speaker 3: think he's putting his self interest ahead about national interest
Speaker 3: if he chooses to remain in the job.
Speaker 6: Well, this is something the government has to answer. I mean,
Speaker 6: the role of ambassador is bigger than any one individual's
Speaker 6: ambition or ego. They need to make sure the Alban
Speaker 6: Easy Labor government needs to make sure we've got the
Speaker 6: best ambassador in place who can work with the Trump
Speaker 6: administration and secure our national interests, whether it's exemptions from tariffs,
Speaker 6: whether it's the continuation of the Orcas submarine deal, whether
Speaker 6: it's a stronger US military and strategic presence in our region.
Speaker 6: And you've got to ask the question, you know, is
Speaker 6: Kevin rub the best person to do that?
Speaker 4: Is he putting his ego above the national interest? Well?
Speaker 6: I think but Labor by keeping him, then, certainly Alban
Speaker 6: Easy by appointing him, knowing all of this as allowed
Speaker 6: personal and other political considerations to influence what should have
Speaker 6: been a national interest appointment.
Speaker 3: Just before you go, I want to ask your view
Speaker 3: on the scenes we've seen in Amsterdam, firstly on Thursday night,
Speaker 3: but then again aggressive and violent protests last night. You know,
Speaker 3: these sort of scenes are being replicated the world over.
Speaker 4: How worried are you about this?
Speaker 6: I'm very worried. I was shocked by those scenes from Amsterdam,
Speaker 6: but it doesn't take much imagination to envisage something similar
Speaker 6: happening in Australia, and we've already seen mobs out of control, rioting,
Speaker 6: burning of flags, chanting of slogans in Australia. I just
Speaker 6: I mean, it shocks me that anti Semitism has reached
Speaker 6: these levels, that we're seeing things that we thought we'd
Speaker 6: left behind in nineteen thirties Europe. But I think it's
Speaker 6: also a reminder to governments around the world and law
Speaker 6: enforcement around the world that they have to take a
Speaker 6: zero tolerance approach to these sorts of activities. They need
Speaker 6: to make arrests, they need to make charges, and they
Speaker 6: need to make utterly clear in their public statements that
Speaker 6: this sort of action targeting a group of individuals because
Speaker 6: of their religion or nationality is completely and utterly unacceptable.
Speaker 4: Completely agree, Dave Sharma. Great to have you.
Speaker 3: Here, Thanks so much, and still to come make exclusive
Speaker 3: interview with one of India's top government ministers. I press
Speaker 3: him on their relationship with Russia. Plus, has Albanezi asked
Speaker 3: the WA Premier to shift the state election date.
Speaker 4: Well, it certainly looks like it.
Speaker 3: I'm going to talk about that with Bronwyn Bishop and
Speaker 3: Nick Cata next, welcome back. Well, let's bring in now
Speaker 3: senior fellow at the Menzies Research Center, Nick Cater and
Speaker 3: former Speaker of the House Bronwyn Bishop.
Speaker 4: Welcome to you both, Great to see you.
Speaker 3: Now it looks like Anthony ALBANIZI might have asked the
Speaker 3: WA Premier, Roger Cook to bring forward the date of
Speaker 3: the WA state election. So Roger Cook has confirmed that
Speaker 3: he's had legal advice on whether he could change the
Speaker 3: March eight date of the WA state election. Now, unlike
Speaker 3: the federal election, the state election date in Wa is
Speaker 3: set well in advance.
Speaker 2: It was on March the eighth, and now.
Speaker 4: He's looking to move it.
Speaker 3: So Albanese's denying having any involvement, but the reports at
Speaker 3: least in the West Australian are that there has been
Speaker 3: a conversation that Albanese has asked Roger Cook to move
Speaker 3: the date, which means that he would be looking bronwin
Speaker 3: at having an earlier election, perhaps calling it on Australia
Speaker 3: Day and having it in March, maybe March eight.
Speaker 12: I've been saying all along there'll be an early election.
Speaker 12: There won't be another budget because the next one would
Speaker 12: be in deficit. They were ready to roll in December.
Speaker 12: That's why they had that speech all ready to go
Speaker 12: in Adelaide, and they had all the policies ready to
Speaker 12: jump and force all the legislation through. But things weren't
Speaker 12: looking too good for December, so it'll be, I would think,
Speaker 12: called just after Australia Day. So they can't they can't wait.
Speaker 12: They can't wait. It gets worse a lot better, I mean.
Speaker 3: Talking about Wa nick cata Wa was a disaster for
Speaker 3: the Coalition at the last election. Peter Dutton has been
Speaker 3: making a lot of visits to the state, but he
Speaker 3: needs to make up a lot of ground there.
Speaker 11: Yes, but I think he certainly will because when you know,
Speaker 11: you go to rock bottom, which is really where the
Speaker 11: Liberal party ended up there after the last election, then
Speaker 11: you know the only way is up. And this is
Speaker 11: one of the big problems of course for alberen Easy.
Speaker 11: He actually needs to increase his majority if he what
Speaker 11: stands the chance of running a stable government. He clearly
Speaker 11: is not going to do that. I mean, he's definitely
Speaker 11: going to lose. Every second term government or a temper,
Speaker 11: a seconding government loses seats, right, that's just what happens.
Speaker 11: That's what's happened since you know, certainly since World War Two.
Speaker 11: So he's going to lose seats. He'll lose seats in
Speaker 11: way I think, And so I can see why he's
Speaker 11: very sensitive about the way election and why he would
Speaker 11: it makes perfect sense that he would have approached the
Speaker 11: premiere and asked him if he could move the day
Speaker 11: to the state election.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now he's being all sneaky about it. But
Speaker 3: the leaks are coming out of WA Labor, no question
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 4: Well, let's have a.
Speaker 3: Look at the US because Donald Trump is announcing it
Speaker 3: key appointments. They're coming thick and fast now and in
Speaker 3: one excellent appointment, Senator Marco Rubio will be the next
Speaker 3: Secretary of State. In my view, This is an excellent choice.
Speaker 3: Strong on foreign policy. He's brilliant on China, on Israel,
Speaker 3: on Iran, and he hasn't been afraid to call out
Speaker 3: nonsense from advocates. If we've got the clip, let's have
Speaker 3: a look at this, soul.
Speaker 4: Will you conference on the contrary, I want you guys
Speaker 4: to get this.
Speaker 3: I want them to destroy every element of ho Master
Speaker 3: they can get their hands on.
Speaker 15: These people are vicious animals who did horrifying crimes.
Speaker 1: And I hope you guys post that.
Speaker 2: What about the civilians every day?
Speaker 14: Com Marcia, stop hinting behind civilians, putting civilians on the way.
Speaker 3: Brom when this is a really good sign for the
Speaker 3: Trump administration that someone who is so strong on foreign
Speaker 3: policy is going to be Secretary of State, especially you know,
Speaker 3: just after we found out that Pompeo is not going
Speaker 3: to be part of the administration.
Speaker 12: Absolutely, And what it's showing is that he's put a
Speaker 12: hell of a lot of work into thinking who is
Speaker 12: going to put where, the speed of which he's making
Speaker 12: announcements and they fit, each one fits. We remember what
Speaker 12: happened when he was elected in twenty sixteen. The thought
Speaker 12: hadn't gone into it but by gosh, it has this time,
Speaker 12: and Rubio is an excellent choice, and I think the
Speaker 12: choices he's made to date are excellent choices.
Speaker 3: I've got some intel actually that Pompeo's involvement with a
Speaker 3: Ukrainian contract might have been part of the reason why
Speaker 3: Trump didn't want him. But another good appointment today, Nick
Speaker 3: Cator Mike Waltz as National Security Advisor again and excellent choice.
Speaker 11: What do you think, Well, that's what I hear. I
Speaker 11: hear the guy's got all the right credentials on this
Speaker 11: and because it's a crucial role at this stage, so
Speaker 11: you know, again, I agree with brom witness. Seems to
Speaker 11: be some very sound appointments coming out of this. That
Speaker 11: clip of Marco Rubio you played in Deadly that's his
Speaker 11: audition for the job.
Speaker 4: Isn't it.
Speaker 11: Didn't he look good? A man of conviction on Israel?
Speaker 11: How important is that?
Speaker 4: One hundred percent?
Speaker 3: I wish we had more of it here in Australia
Speaker 3: from our own government, but alas we do not.
Speaker 4: Just on a lighter note, I don't know if you've.
Speaker 3: Seen this yet, but Trump's signature YMCA dance move has
Speaker 3: now gone viral.
Speaker 16: Have a Look, there's no need to feel down, Robin.
Speaker 3: It's just so funny that one of those awkward daggy
Speaker 3: dad dance moves.
Speaker 4: And take off like that, and it's on football fans absolutely.
Speaker 12: And I do recall actually in ninety eight going to
Speaker 12: see the Village People when they came to Australia and
Speaker 12: having an argument with my host, who was an American,
Speaker 12: about Ronald Reagan, me saying he's going to be terrific,
Speaker 12: and he's saying, oh no, he's going to drop out
Speaker 12: on modems on everyone.
Speaker 4: And it just took me.
Speaker 12: Back to the exaggeration that people threw at Reagan, who
Speaker 12: turned out to be magnificent president, trying to do the
Speaker 12: same thing to Trump, who will also be so important
Speaker 12: in changing dramatically what happens in the West.
Speaker 3: Look, I hope you're right that there have been some
Speaker 3: concerns about Trump on national security, and a lot of
Speaker 3: the MAGA team didn't welcome the appointment of Marco Rubio today.
Speaker 3: By the way, there was a bit of backlash online
Speaker 3: from that.
Speaker 4: Nick Cater. Firstly, can you do the Trump move? Very
Speaker 4: important question, Sharry.
Speaker 11: I do an awful lot for you, but.
Speaker 8: On national television, I mean, the significant thing is didn't
Speaker 8: Trump look relaxed in those later stages of the campaign.
Speaker 11: He knew what was coming, even if the media didn't,
Speaker 11: and even if the Democrats didn't.
Speaker 3: Well, and for the hours he was doing, you know,
Speaker 3: Donald Trump left nothing on the field. He's especially in
Speaker 3: the final days. I mean his rally was going past
Speaker 3: midnight on that last day of campaigning, so he and
Speaker 3: you know, he's not young. I wouldn't have had the
Speaker 3: energy to do that campaigning, There's absolutely no question about it.
Speaker 4: But he was. He was going night and day, working so.
Speaker 12: Hard, Brudwin and dealing with everything else.
Speaker 4: I checked at him.
Speaker 12: He's an amazing man, no two worries about it. But
Speaker 12: and he's got a brain. That's the best part and
Speaker 12: that's what we need the most, all.
Speaker 3: Right, Nick, Cato, brom and Bishop, thank you voting so
Speaker 3: much for your time. Now still to come after the break,
Speaker 3: the journalists who exposed how Hermas is treating Palestinians would
Speaker 3: join me live. Sorry that's a bit later in the show.
Speaker 3: After the break, my exclusive chat with one of India's
Speaker 3: top guy ministers, where I press him on their relationship
Speaker 3: with Russia. He also speaks about trade in a prost
Speaker 3: Trump world.
Speaker 4: That's after this welcome back.
Speaker 3: India's Minister for External Affairs, doctor s Jaishanka, was in
Speaker 3: Australia last week for meetings with alban Easy and senior figures.
Speaker 3: I had the privilege of sitting down with him for
Speaker 3: his only interview during his trip. Now, India is a
Speaker 3: strong middle power. It has unique role in the geopolitical environment.
Speaker 3: It maintains relationships with the US and Australia, but also
Speaker 3: with China and Russia. In our interview, I started by
Speaker 3: asking him about India's membership of both the Quad and
Speaker 3: BRICKS and whether he recognizes the angst that India's relationship
Speaker 3: with China and Russia at times causes Australia.
Speaker 1: I don't think we have given cause for any angst.
Speaker 1: For this reason in this day and age, countries don't
Speaker 1: have exclusive relationship. But if I were to use that logic,
Speaker 1: I would say, well, so many countries have relationship with
Speaker 1: Pakistan and look at the angs that should cause me.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you two things here. You know,
Speaker 1: what India has done and is doing with Russia is actually,
Speaker 1: in my view, helpful to the international community as a whole.
Speaker 1: If we had not made the moves we had, let
Speaker 1: me tell you, the energy markets would have taken a
Speaker 1: completely different turn and actually would have precipitated a global
Speaker 1: energy crisis. It would have caused inflation across the world
Speaker 1: as a consequence. Equally, it is the fact that we
Speaker 1: have today a good relationship with Russia allows us to be,
Speaker 1: in a way a country in between, which is which
Speaker 1: has the ability to both talk to Russia and to
Speaker 1: Ukraine and to try to find some intersection in those conversations.
Speaker 1: And I think the world, including Australia, needs such a
Speaker 1: country which will help to bring back this conflict back
Speaker 1: to the conference stable.
Speaker 3: You're right, India has been a very good friend of Ukraine.
Speaker 4: So what path do you.
Speaker 3: See then as the middle country in stopping Russia's invasion
Speaker 3: of Ukraine.
Speaker 1: The way out is to find an ending to this
Speaker 1: conflict negotiated Ending conflicts rarely end on the battlefield, mostly
Speaker 1: the end in a negotiation.
Speaker 4: Do you think Trump will have a big role to
Speaker 4: play in.
Speaker 1: That, Well, I think the United States is, you know,
Speaker 1: the world's pre eminent power in a way, and the
Speaker 1: United States will naturally, I mean, and it's been very
Speaker 1: closely involved from the very start, so obviously the US
Speaker 1: would have its influence and its views on it. But
Speaker 1: your earlier question, I do think that it's important for
Speaker 1: countries who have the access, the comfort, the credibility to
Speaker 1: engage both Moscow and Kiev to do that, to do
Speaker 1: that with a view of bringing this conflict to an
Speaker 1: early end, because we know at some stage it will
Speaker 1: come to the negotiating table. So if we can make
Speaker 1: hasten that, if we can facilitate that, I would argue
Speaker 1: that it's in everybody's interest.
Speaker 3: It's a very pragmatic view of the world because in Australia,
Speaker 3: in the United States, in the United Kingdom, there's been
Speaker 3: a lot of concern over the emerging alliance and the
Speaker 3: increase in cooperation between China and Russia, North Korea and Iran,
Speaker 3: you know, the.
Speaker 2: Supply of weaponry for example.
Speaker 3: Do you think that this emerging axis of evil, as
Speaker 3: it's called the you know, Russia, China, Iran and North Korea,
Speaker 3: do you believe this is a growing threat to the
Speaker 3: world And do you think Iran's increasing nuclear abilities capabilities
Speaker 3: will need to be dealt with.
Speaker 1: You know, this picture that you've painted, I assume that
Speaker 1: it's your sense that it's grown closer since twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two after the Ukraine conflict started, right, Yes, that's actually
Speaker 1: the case. Why it's in everybody's interested that the sooner
Speaker 1: the conflict ends, the better, because the longer the conflict
Speaker 1: drags out, you know, all sorts of things are going
Speaker 1: to happen. Not all these things could necessarily be to
Speaker 1: Austria Lia's advantage, or you know, to that of Western countries.
Speaker 1: So you know, the more you are concerned about, you know,
Speaker 1: some of these developments, I think, the stronger a case
Speaker 1: you're making for why we should be more active in
Speaker 1: the pursuit of a negotiated solution, that's the best contribution.
Speaker 4: I can make.
Speaker 3: Are you concerned about their increasing cooperation though?
Speaker 1: I'm concerned about the fact that more people are getting killed,
Speaker 1: more you know, countries in some way or the other
Speaker 1: are getting involved, and we think that's not good.
Speaker 3: Can the world afford to continue to sit back and
Speaker 3: watch as nuclear abilities are developed by Tehran?
Speaker 1: We have a view on nuclear non prolification, as you know.
Speaker 1: The Again I spoke earlier about laws and norms and rules.
Speaker 1: If countries joint regimes sign treaties are the international order
Speaker 1: requires that they keep their word, and if they don't,
Speaker 1: then then the international order, obviously, you know, the sort
Speaker 1: of reacts to it.
Speaker 4: So the the.
Speaker 1: You know, for US, we are very clear we think
Speaker 1: that nuclear non proliferation is destabilizing. We believe that countries
Speaker 1: which sign the NPT must abide by the commitment. It's
Speaker 1: it's a you know, clear cut proposition for US.
Speaker 3: And if they don't, would India support Israel or the
Speaker 3: United States targeting the nuclear sign military?
Speaker 1: No, No, I think you are you're painting. I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand.
Speaker 4: I think that is a realistic possibility where.
Speaker 1: You're coming from. But it's it's not a discussion, certainly,
Speaker 1: you know, Look, we don't we we again, I put
Speaker 1: it to the purpose our diplomacy is actually to do diplomacy,
Speaker 1: not to see recourds to force as a as a
Speaker 1: natural or early or preferred option. I think at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, don't you know, there's
Speaker 1: not a homily I'm giving you. I'm giving you good
Speaker 1: common sense. A lot of problems in the world are
Speaker 1: resolved by countries and people sitting down, you know, the
Speaker 1: moment you go around the path of force and violence
Speaker 1: it's so much easier started than end it.
Speaker 3: That's easy when it's a like minded nation, but if
Speaker 3: you're dealing with a dictator or an evil regime like Iran,
Speaker 3: makes it very difficult.
Speaker 1: You have your point of view, I hear you, I
Speaker 1: have my point of view, and you hurt me.
Speaker 3: Trump has said he will impose trade tariffs on unimported goods.
Speaker 4: Is this a worry.
Speaker 1: We don't in my business do hypothetical stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3: Not so much a hypothetical though he said he will.
Speaker 4: Let's see what happens.
Speaker 3: In light of COVID nineteen, this is a big lesson
Speaker 3: in diversifying, isn't it Well.
Speaker 1: I think the COVID nineteen was the most graphic illustration.
Speaker 1: It's not the only one, but absolutely, I mean, and
Speaker 1: again I'm not just stating Indian point of view. So today,
Speaker 1: across the world, I think countries and regions are trying
Speaker 1: to build local capacities. They are they're looking. You know,
Speaker 1: we would talk in terms of just in time, we
Speaker 1: would talk in terms of lowest cost. I think people
Speaker 1: are today understanding that those are not the only factors.
Speaker 1: You know, we speak about food security. You'd rather pay
Speaker 1: more and be a short of food health security. You'd
Speaker 1: rather produce at home or you know, from a trusted partner.
Speaker 1: And you know, even if it means paying more, then
Speaker 1: rely on the cheapest partner, who may let you down.
Speaker 4: Who's unreliable.
Speaker 1: So I would actually put it to you, you know,
Speaker 1: don't just think about it as an outcome of an
Speaker 1: American political happening. I put it to you that the
Speaker 1: world is actually headed for a reworking of supply chains,
Speaker 1: for a much greater kind of emphasis on trusted partners,
Speaker 1: for much greater sensitivity on anything digital, for a much
Speaker 1: stronger focus on all the implications of anything technology driven.
Speaker 1: So it's going to be a very very different set
Speaker 1: of relationships that all of us are sliding into. And
Speaker 1: which is why for me, the relationship with Australia has
Speaker 1: so much value because today we have that trust, we
Speaker 1: have that sensitivity, we are developing that experience of working together.
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of things you know, I'd
Speaker 1: be comfortable getting out of Australia or doing with Australia,
Speaker 1: which I may not be with some other countries.
Speaker 3: I would ask you about cricket, but I'm I'm not
Speaker 3: a cricket expert over.
Speaker 1: Here, obviously a sport which most Indians are deeply devoted to,
Speaker 1: so I assure you it's going to be a very
Speaker 1: interesting cricketing season all of us are. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: going back from Australia, but my mind is going to
Speaker 1: be very much in Australia in the coming days.
Speaker 4: I'm sure it will be. Indeed, thank you very much.
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Definitely much more comfortable speaking about foreign policy than spot Well.
Speaker 4: Still to come.
Speaker 3: In Israeli journalist travels to a Hamas stronghold to find
Speaker 3: out exactly what Gazans think of the terror group o
Speaker 3: Hadhimo would join me live after the break.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: There's often debate about.
Speaker 3: Whether or not Palestinians actually support hermas Well. One journalist
Speaker 3: from Israel's Channel twelve went to the Jabaliir refugee camp,
Speaker 3: a Hamas stronghold to find out for himself.
Speaker 4: Have a look.
Speaker 13: Heather log in ba has Evaesluj.
Speaker 4: And there was so much more.
Speaker 3: Now you're not going to find that sort of content
Speaker 3: on left leaning broadcasters because it just doesn't fit their
Speaker 3: narrative that Palestinians are suffering because of Israel, not Hermas. Well,
Speaker 3: I'm pleased to say that the Israeli journalists who expose
Speaker 3: this or had Himo joins me now live from Israel
Speaker 3: or had thank you for your time. Well, tell us
Speaker 3: what did you find when you spoke to Palestinians about Harmas?
Speaker 15: Thank you very much, Sherry. So I can tell you
Speaker 15: that this was actually the first time since the war
Speaker 15: began a year ago, more than a year ago, that correspondents,
Speaker 15: not Palestinian correspondent, but any other correspondent could have really
Speaker 15: the access to talk to Palestinians, in this case in
Speaker 15: Jeban or refugee camp without the ruling of Hamas. So
Speaker 15: these guys were not fear of Hamas. And I must
Speaker 15: tell you that I wasn't surprised because of what they said, because.
Speaker 4: Oh, it seems like we've just lost our hard there.
Speaker 15: I hope, yeah, I hope that now you could hear us.
Speaker 15: So I was not surprised. I was not surprised from this.
Speaker 15: I was surprised for the fact that a big, huge
Speaker 15: mass of people we're talking about dozens of people that
Speaker 15: have seen me, they didn't know. The vast majority of
Speaker 15: them did not know that I'm from Israel. They didn't
Speaker 15: know anything but this camera, and they just whenever they
Speaker 15: have seen me, they just started cursing Hamas and spitting
Speaker 15: on Hamas or Sinoia whenever anyone just mentioned the name
Speaker 15: of a sin while they spit him. I've seen people
Speaker 15: they told me that Hamas shot their legs in order
Speaker 15: to make them cripple, just because they took food.
Speaker 3: To hopefully we get our herd back, but until we do,
Speaker 3: I think this is the issue I had that you know,
Speaker 3: there's Israel is accused of censorship, of not allowing journalists
Speaker 3: into Gaza, but in fact we haven't got the full story.
Speaker 3: What we often see on social media is propaganda. There's
Speaker 3: no question Palestinian families are suffering, absolutely no question about that.
Speaker 3: But you never get you never hear the stories or
Speaker 3: the reports of how Hamas is treating local Palestinians. This
Speaker 3: is the reporting that you went and did you know,
Speaker 3: why do you think we don't hear about this in
Speaker 3: mainstream media outlets?
Speaker 15: So it's maybe a narrative that does not fit the
Speaker 15: narrative of the West, because it's quite difficult to get
Speaker 15: these voices because the vast majority of the people in
Speaker 15: the Gaza Strip is still afraid, in fear from Hamas.
Speaker 15: I can tell you that since this footage was broadcast
Speaker 15: two days ago, I got dozens of phone calls from
Speaker 15: Gaza Strip and from the West Bank, from sources of mine,
Speaker 15: from just an ordinary Pedestinians who said, thank you, thank
Speaker 15: you so much for letting our voice be heard. I
Speaker 15: can tell you that I think this is the most
Speaker 15: important thing. But by the way we were blurring their faces,
Speaker 15: they did not ask us to do it.
Speaker 4: Extraordin I'm so brave. Ohhead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: We're out of time, but extraordinary courage of them to
Speaker 3: speak out as well. That's all we've got time for tonight.
Speaker 3: Here's Danika di Giorgio in Well. The ladies have taken
Speaker 3: over the man Cave. Tonight, take it away.