Speaker 1: Joining us live from Canbell this morning is the Prime Minister,
Speaker 1: Anthony Alberanesi. Prime Minister, good to have you with us.
Speaker 1: First things First, do you now concede learning their lied
Speaker 1: to the Australian public?
Speaker 2: These were the questions Anthony Albersi could not escape batteries
Speaker 2: government handed down its fifth budget.
Speaker 3: This is being labeled warning that a budget.
Speaker 2: Of broken promises?
Speaker 1: Can Australians still trust the things you say.
Speaker 2: Labor wanted it framed as bold reform, a budget about fairness,
Speaker 2: productivity and giving younger Australians a better shot at housing. Instead,
Speaker 2: the immediate political fight became whether the Prime Minister had
Speaker 2: broken his word.
Speaker 4: We have changed our position now, I'm upfront about that,
Speaker 4: and we'll own that and we'll argue why that's the case.
Speaker 5: We've been throwing everything.
Speaker 2: But once all the noise dies down, a sharper image
Speaker 2: begins to emerge, a government willing to make some politically
Speaker 2: difficult choices at a time when the police legal environment
Speaker 2: has never been more fractious. I'm Daniel James, and you're
Speaker 2: listening to seven AM today. CEO Cheek Media and host
Speaker 2: of The Big Small Talk podcast, Hannah Ferguson on the ambition,
Speaker 2: the compromises, and the contradictions at the heart of the budget.
Speaker 2: It's Saturday, May sixteen, Hannah, good to see you again.
Speaker 2: You were in the budget lockup. When you walked out,
Speaker 2: What did you think the real story of this budget was.
Speaker 6: I think the real story of the budget is probably
Speaker 6: there's never just one story of a budget. I think
Speaker 6: it's unfair to kind of pin it to one thing,
Speaker 6: which the mainstream media obviously always will. This idea of
Speaker 6: broken promises has dominated this week, but I think there's
Speaker 6: a lot of substance this budget that, for you know,
Speaker 6: the first in a long time that's actually taking on
Speaker 6: meaningful major reforms.
Speaker 5: Been a massive newsweek.
Speaker 6: But I also think that the missing conversations that are
Speaker 6: happening on social media, not in corporate media, are discussions
Speaker 6: around this missing tax on gas exports, around NDIS cuts,
Speaker 6: and how the government I think has kind of in
Speaker 6: many ways breadcrumbed us to think that this tax reform
Speaker 6: announcement is major because they haven't been doing major things
Speaker 6: for this term. You know, the coverage that we've been
Speaker 6: doing this week looking at this tax reform and seeing
Speaker 6: in our comment section, seeing in our messages, in our inbox,
Speaker 6: people saying, you know, let's celebrate this, absolutely, let's celebrate
Speaker 6: this kind of bold action from the government, because they
Speaker 6: have done so little. I think it's that idea of
Speaker 6: when you're starving, you feel like anything is a meal,
Speaker 6: and so I think that this is tax reform that
Speaker 6: should be celebrated. But I think we also need to
Speaker 6: be realistic and at a macro level look at the
Speaker 6: fact that we're excited and we're affirming, but we want
Speaker 6: more and that's okay to ask for too.
Speaker 2: So instead of a big conversation about big issues, the
Speaker 2: media coverage immediately focused on broken promises. We saw some
Speaker 2: quite frankly ludicrous front pages from one of the dailies,
Speaker 2: particularly in the Murdoch media. What have you made of
Speaker 2: the reaction to this budget? Was the hyperbole warranted?
Speaker 6: I think that we're always going to expect from the
Speaker 6: murdockmedia going to come out with the hammer and sickle
Speaker 6: and call in communist Jim Like I wasn't particularly surprised.
Speaker 6: I think I was surprised by how far it went.
Speaker 6: But what frustrates me more than anything, and I think
Speaker 6: a lot of people listening might have the same sort
Speaker 6: of feelings is that when the murdockmedia turns to this
Speaker 6: kind of radical extremist viewpoint, that positions our treasurer who's
Speaker 6: trying to do something you know, affirming for the community
Speaker 6: and recognize this issue we have in housing at the moment,
Speaker 6: this massive Australian problem where young people are never going
Speaker 6: to be able to buy their first home at the
Speaker 6: current rate, that we see the murdockmedia turn to this
Speaker 6: like radical right wing extremist kind of response. What that
Speaker 6: does is that allows the public square to focus on
Speaker 6: that as the debate instead of the substance of what
Speaker 6: we're working with and what the tangible change will be.
Speaker 6: So my frustration is when this is the narrative that's
Speaker 6: driven by the mainstream media, there is no room left
Speaker 6: to have actually an exciting discussion about where to from here.
Speaker 2: Do you think that the general public is spuying that
Speaker 2: type of extremism now from the papers? Do you think
Speaker 2: it's something that people are following as a point of
Speaker 2: discussion or is something that people are are moral lest
Speaker 2: ignoring there.
Speaker 6: I think that, you know, we need to be realistic.
Speaker 6: You know, I come from new media, from online media,
Speaker 6: very digital first space, and so I understand that my
Speaker 6: reach is an audience that has, you know, an echo
Speaker 6: chamber viewpoint of progressive policy and ideals, right, so I
Speaker 6: need to understand the echo chamber, the silod that I
Speaker 6: exist in. But I do think we need to recognize
Speaker 6: that the Murdoch media still has a hold on a
Speaker 6: large portion of Australians, a particular voting demographic, a particular
Speaker 6: age demographic, I would suggest too, and there is real
Speaker 6: impact there.
Speaker 5: Like I'm not denying that, but.
Speaker 6: I also think we need to remember that you know,
Speaker 6: these you know, these changes to the CGT discount actually
Speaker 6: really only impact the ten percent, you know, the top
Speaker 6: ten percent of wealthy Australians. But the way they're being
Speaker 6: fed to the mainstream public is that they're going to
Speaker 6: affect you if you.
Speaker 5: Aspire to have wealth.
Speaker 6: Because for a really long time in Australia, we have
Speaker 6: normalized this idea housing of property as a wealth creation vehicle,
Speaker 6: and that sentiment is now going to change.
Speaker 5: And I think that what.
Speaker 6: The media has done a really good job of is
Speaker 6: saying that you know, hard work earns you this kind
Speaker 6: of success in this kind of property portfolio. This has
Speaker 6: been positions of the Australian dream not to just have
Speaker 6: your own home and kind of work a job, but
Speaker 6: to actually have a property portfolio. If you just work hard,
Speaker 6: you can get there. And that's not reality. And aiming
Speaker 6: that kind of sentiment at the everyday Australian creates a
Speaker 6: distorted vision of what people's actual tangible impacts this.
Speaker 5: Kind of a policy going to be.
Speaker 6: So my worry is not that you know, this is
Speaker 6: kind of taking hold, but that we've normalized this ideal
Speaker 6: of this aspiration when I don't think it's what most
Speaker 6: Australians experience or are ever going to have in their lifetime.
Speaker 2: How do you think most younger Australians are viewing these
Speaker 2: changes because some people are saying the changes to negative
Speaker 2: gearing are two modest, while other parts of the Mahira
Speaker 2: and the Opposition is saying that the capital gains reforms
Speaker 2: will I'm fairly punishing people trying to get ahead through
Speaker 2: buying shares.
Speaker 5: It's not so much wealth.
Speaker 1: I mean, you got young, but young people are included
Speaker 1: in this lot too, who have a little bit of
Speaker 1: savings every month and they put that into the share
Speaker 1: market to try and get ahead, maybe get a house deposit,
Speaker 1: maybe say for their kids. I don't know, it could
Speaker 1: be anything. Well, I punish them though.
Speaker 2: But do you think that these changes will be mostly
Speaker 2: viewed positively?
Speaker 6: I think that young people are consuming from different media sources,
Speaker 6: and so I think that the conversation that younger voters
Speaker 6: are having genst and millennials is there's a recognition from
Speaker 6: us that you know, actually we are still getting kind
Speaker 6: of the raw end of the deal here.
Speaker 5: If the wealthiest in our society.
Speaker 6: Are going to be able to maintain things like negative
Speaker 6: gearing with grandfathering of this policy, I think that young
Speaker 6: people have an awareness, we have an ability to talk.
Speaker 5: Through these issues.
Speaker 6: I think there is a recognition, a celebration that our
Speaker 6: government is doing something. But I think that very quickly
Speaker 6: there will also be a conversation about the fact that
Speaker 6: really what young people were advocating for most in this
Speaker 6: budget was a twenty five percent tax on gas exports
Speaker 6: that's been ignored. The resources sector is still being very
Speaker 6: well protected by this government, and actually this policy doesn't
Speaker 6: go far enough. But yes, it's a start, and we're
Speaker 6: going to give that applause.
Speaker 2: To When Anthony Alberdozzi was interviewed by Sarah Ferguson on
Speaker 2: seven point thirty she put to him that there'll be
Speaker 2: about seven hundred thousand more gen Z voters on the
Speaker 2: role at the next election.
Speaker 7: Were you discussing at that time the political payoff for
Speaker 7: you that by doing this, if the opposition chooses to
Speaker 7: oppose all of these changes that you're bringing forward, that
Speaker 7: it will damage itself in the eyes of young voters.
Speaker 2: He rejected the idea that it was about electoral politics.
Speaker 4: No, we were discussing the merits of the policy and
Speaker 4: whether it's stacked up. That was our sole focus was
Speaker 4: is this good policy?
Speaker 6: Why do you think he's dodging that framing My view
Speaker 6: of this labor government is that they always want to
Speaker 6: come across in any government, wants to come across as
Speaker 6: acting morally, acting in the interests of the community, rather
Speaker 6: than making a calculated decision based on their voters right. So,
Speaker 6: I think that this budget has been pitched as being,
Speaker 6: you know, the intergenerational inequality kind.
Speaker 5: Of reform that we need. It's being pitched at young people.
Speaker 6: It's trying to attract the voter base of the gens
Speaker 6: at millennials that will be the strongest cohort at the
Speaker 6: next election too, And I think that the point that
Speaker 6: I land on every time is I know, I personally
Speaker 6: know and believe that there are good people within Labor
Speaker 6: that are trying to do something significant here. I think
Speaker 6: Charms is one of those people. I'm really impressed. I
Speaker 6: want to celebrate the budget that he's delivered, but I
Speaker 6: do think it's really obvious to me and anyone watching
Speaker 6: that there's a lot of people in Labor, especially our
Speaker 6: Prime minister, that are also trying to stop that progress
Speaker 6: and sit on that conservative, moderate centrist kind of approach
Speaker 6: that's letting young people.
Speaker 2: Down coming up, and the Opposition is trying to out
Speaker 2: One Nation, One Nation Hannah. On Thursday night, Angus Taylor
Speaker 2: gave his budget reply speech in which he doubled down
Speaker 2: on the same policy territory that he campaigned on in
Speaker 2: the lead up to the pharaoh By election.
Speaker 8: With later having opened the migration floodgates. The dream of
Speaker 8: home ownership has become a nightmare for so many Australians.
Speaker 2: What did you make of your speech?
Speaker 5: Oh, I mean it's one nation light right.
Speaker 8: Mass migration is changing Australia for the words, the number
Speaker 8: of people coming in far exceeds the number of houses built.
Speaker 6: I think we are in a dangerous territory right now
Speaker 6: where we also have you know, a cohort, especially my followers,
Speaker 6: who are saying, you know, be careful how you critique
Speaker 6: Labor because it could result in one nation's rise. And
Speaker 6: that's a really scary conversation to be having. But I
Speaker 6: would also say to that that Labour need to be
Speaker 6: stepping up to the plate and responding better to One
Speaker 6: Nation and the coalition's you know, racist rhetoric around immigration,
Speaker 6: the kind of you know, anti climate action stance that
Speaker 6: he took last night, Angus Taylor as well.
Speaker 8: Labour's net zero obsession is driving up inflation and destroying
Speaker 8: our economy and that's why neds zero must go.
Speaker 6: And the fact that we could potentially see a coalition
Speaker 6: between the Liberals, Nats and One Nation at the next election,
Speaker 6: that is a dangerous idea, especially with the kind of
Speaker 6: you know, similar competing narratives that they're pushing into the
Speaker 6: public domain right now. And I think we need to
Speaker 6: be honest and upfront about that. But we should also
Speaker 6: expect more from the government to go further to kind
Speaker 6: of beat and sort of you know, dismiss this rhetoric too, and.
Speaker 2: When it was his turn to front Sarah Ferguson on
Speaker 2: seven point thirty, she kept pressing him on actual numbers
Speaker 2: around his immigration policies.
Speaker 7: You've made a big statement in your speech. You're not
Speaker 7: prepared to back it up with numbers, even though giving
Speaker 7: you the numbers, well, you haven't given me the final Well, Sarah,
Speaker 7: I've said what the number will be.
Speaker 8: It will be based on the number of houses that
Speaker 8: are built now. So now I'll ask you, well, if
Speaker 8: I may, you know how many houses will labor build
Speaker 8: in a couple of years time.
Speaker 7: You can, if I was to guess, you can put
Speaker 7: those questions to lay. But let me ask you a
Speaker 7: different question.
Speaker 2: She also pressed him on tax plan costs. He couldn't
Speaker 2: really offer any sort of coherent answer to those questions.
Speaker 8: Number you came up, So we can argue about this
Speaker 8: all day and we might have different we might have
Speaker 8: different numbers. I think what matters is whether there are
Speaker 8: savings there to pay for it. That's the question.
Speaker 7: Well, and how much it is matters too.
Speaker 2: It's true, but what did that tell you about the
Speaker 2: Coalition's alternative to Labour's budget?
Speaker 6: Look, I just I think when I say it's like
Speaker 6: very much vibes approach. I think when it comes to
Speaker 6: One Nation and the Coalition right now, there is just
Speaker 6: not that much in terms of substance. The policies they're
Speaker 6: putting forward are very much based on vibes. They are
Speaker 6: trying to read the room, but that room is still
Speaker 6: quite a right wing minority. They are not representing, you know,
Speaker 6: centrist Australia. They are not even trying to speak to
Speaker 6: left wing Australians. I pitched to all of these people
Speaker 6: to speak to them after Budget Day. I asked Angus Taylor,
Speaker 6: I asked Andrew Hasty, I went to Hans and I
Speaker 6: went to someone from every party. Essentially I got only
Speaker 6: a response from Hasty's office saying he's unavailable. You know,
Speaker 6: I think there are a lot of young people that
Speaker 6: are actually trying to see if they're willing to step
Speaker 6: in and have a conversation. But they're so evasive even
Speaker 6: with mainstream media, which proves to me that they don't
Speaker 6: really have substance. All the costings, all the sort of
Speaker 6: measurements for these policies, and that it is just based
Speaker 6: on the rhetoric that they're learning from One Nation.
Speaker 2: Late In the week, Roy Morgan dropped polling which claimed
Speaker 2: One Nation had more primary support than Labor and almost
Speaker 2: double the support of the Coalition. Do you think the
Speaker 2: Coalition's rhetoric on migration is only going to get harsher?
Speaker 2: Are they going to keep trying to out one Nation
Speaker 2: one Nation?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 6: Absolutely, I think that we can expect the fight to
Speaker 6: get dirtier and dirtier as we had towards a potential
Speaker 6: twenty twenty eight election. I don't think you know One
Speaker 6: Nation's going anywhere. I actually saw an incredible video from
Speaker 6: these train Council of Social Services during the week that
Speaker 6: showed the media scrum basically looking at Pauline Hanson coming
Speaker 6: out of an elevator versus you know, key stakeholders that
Speaker 6: were speaking about what the budget's doing to cut essential
Speaker 6: services and seeing five media cover them and one hundred
Speaker 6: media fighting for a furd of Pauline Hans and fighting
Speaker 6: for an image of Angus Taylor fighting from an image
Speaker 6: of Barnaby Joyce as they come out to kind of
Speaker 6: offer very little. But you know, this ViBe's based approach
Speaker 6: of anti immigration sentiment. I think Australians need to look
Speaker 6: at their voting record. I think Australians need to understand
Speaker 6: that they are just spewing kind of things for the
Speaker 6: mainstream media to pick headlines from.
Speaker 3: This was a budget basically that says, this is a Marxist, socialist,
Speaker 3: communist budget. We're going to strip wealth, we want to
Speaker 3: disperse wealth. Yeah, right across it. They're not going to inspire.
Speaker 6: But I think it's just a kind of sad indictment
Speaker 6: on the state of media, on the state of politics,
Speaker 6: that this is the competition we have right now.
Speaker 2: The government has found about thirty eight billion dollars in
Speaker 2: savings from the NDIS, which it says are about securing
Speaker 2: the future of the scheme. But when you look at
Speaker 2: how those savings are being made, what does that tell
Speaker 2: you about the fairness claim at the center of this budget.
Speaker 6: I think, you know, there are valid critiques of the
Speaker 6: NDIS that we need to be able to speak about,
Speaker 6: but those critiques are looking at the providers, fraud within providers,
Speaker 6: and actually the people that are being punished under these
Speaker 6: cuts is about one hundred and sixty thousand participants in
Speaker 6: the NDAs, and the governments come out yesterday with the
Speaker 6: kind of modeling for you know, things they're going to
Speaker 6: change when it comes to powers given to the minister,
Speaker 6: when it gives to these automated different systems that they're
Speaker 6: applying to kind.
Speaker 5: Of remove people from the scheme and remove the.
Speaker 6: Services available to them, and then we're seeing different testing
Speaker 6: for what is considered a permanent disability. When we're looking
Speaker 6: at the actual policy changes here, I actually find them
Speaker 6: scarier than even what was presented to us a couple
Speaker 6: of weeks ago. I think that all of this sort
Speaker 6: of these cuts to the NDAs that were sort of
Speaker 6: pitched to the media a couple of weeks ago were
Speaker 6: almost an exercise in desensitizing us to when the actual
Speaker 6: announcement occurred and it was harsher, It was scarier, and
Speaker 6: it was incredibly dehumanizing to read from the government, especially
Speaker 6: when this government is pitching this about our fairness agenda,
Speaker 6: especially for young people. Who do they mean, Because if
Speaker 6: they mean cutting one hundred and sixty thousand participants from
Speaker 6: the ndaes, this isn't really the human fair budget that
Speaker 6: they're pitching.
Speaker 2: Finally, Hannah, given the state of our politics, including the
Speaker 2: courage by the force of state, are we now living
Speaker 2: in a time where it is now only possible to
Speaker 2: implement significant structural reform by breaking promises, given the reaction
Speaker 2: to the proposed text reform in previous elections, I.
Speaker 6: Think when it comes to this rhetoric around broken promises,
Speaker 6: we need to ask ourselves whose promise is being broken
Speaker 6: in terms of, you know, what does the electorate want?
Speaker 6: What do young people need? What does the future of
Speaker 6: Australia ask for?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 6: When we're talking about a broken promise, if the majority
Speaker 6: of Australians want this change, is it breaking a promise
Speaker 6: or is it.
Speaker 5: Actually moving with the moment?
Speaker 6: Is it actually moving with the dialogue, with the needle,
Speaker 6: with what people in Australia need right now to have
Speaker 6: a prosperous future. And I think that you know, this
Speaker 6: idea of broken promise is incredibly boring and reductive view
Speaker 6: of what is a really fascinating public conversation about what
Speaker 6: the impacts are here and what this actually means for
Speaker 6: young people over the next five years and the housing markets,
Speaker 6: you know, slowing growth in price.
Speaker 5: And I think it's.
Speaker 6: Just frustrating to see as a smaller media player as
Speaker 6: we desperately try to work our way into the center
Speaker 6: and deliver interesting commentary to see how all of the
Speaker 6: readers are stuck with, you know, the Murdock media's view
Speaker 6: of communism, which is absolutely is not.
Speaker 2: And thank you so much for not being boring and reductive.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me in saying that
Speaker 5: I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Seven Am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's
Speaker 2: made by Atticus Basto, Aria Richards, Chris Dngate, Crystal Color,
Speaker 2: Ruby Jones, Travis Evans, Zoltonfecho and me Daniel James. Our
Speaker 2: theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of
Speaker 2: Envlo Bordier. Thanks for listening to seven Am this week.
Speaker 2: Have a great weekend.