WEBVTT - The Liberals face old problems with no new answers

0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:08.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to seven AM. The

0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Liberal Party has begun asking what it needs to do

0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:16.160
<v Speaker 1>to modernize. Its answer so far is Tony Abbott. As

0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Angus Taylor tries to put some distance between the coalition

0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.120
<v Speaker 1>and One Nation, Pauline Hanson's party has had a week

0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.840
<v Speaker 1>that looks less like a political revolution and more like

0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.840
<v Speaker 1>a holiday gone wrong. Meanwhile, away from the political theater,

0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:33.120
<v Speaker 1>because the economics of custom migration numbers economically stacked up

0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:35.440
<v Speaker 1>at a time when one of the country's most important

0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.519
<v Speaker 1>systems is still failing the people it's meant to care for.

0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Today federal political correspondent for the Age and Sydney Morning Herald,

0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.400
<v Speaker 1>The Tassier Crisantos on the Liberal Party's identity crisis, one

0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.440
<v Speaker 1>nation's fortunes and an age care system still not fit

0:00:51.520 --> 0:01:03.160
<v Speaker 1>for purpose. It's Saturday, July eighteen, the Tazia. This week,

0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.640
<v Speaker 1>Angus Taylor finally ruled out a coalition with One Nation,

0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.920
<v Speaker 1>although Sarah Ferguson on seventh thirty really had to push

0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:10.880
<v Speaker 1>him hard to do it.

0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Don't Liberal voters have a right to know that this

0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.520
<v Speaker 2>party that would cause, as you describe it, an eternity

0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.760
<v Speaker 2>of pain is one you would never form government with

0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:22.400
<v Speaker 2>under any circumstances.

0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.840
<v Speaker 3>Well as I say, we've got absolutely no plan to form.

0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.399
<v Speaker 2>Government with it, the same as ruling it. What I'm

0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:28.039
<v Speaker 2>looking for.

0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Now, as I say I want a coalition with the

0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:33.319
<v Speaker 3>National Party.

0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think he's been dancing around the question

0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:37.039
<v Speaker 1>for so long?

0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.039
<v Speaker 4>I think Taylor in particular has found it very difficult

0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.920
<v Speaker 4>to land the right notes here.

0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm earling it out. There's no plan, There's well, there

0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.680
<v Speaker 3>is no plan, I can tell you right now.

0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.280
<v Speaker 4>I think we've seen a lot of the kind of

0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.200
<v Speaker 4>one Nation attack lines outsourced to other members of the party.

0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.160
<v Speaker 4>And I think part of that is as the leader,

0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.320
<v Speaker 4>you know, he wants to appeal to us as broader

0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.040
<v Speaker 4>voter base as possible. But I think what people have

0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.200
<v Speaker 4>picked up on is it has seemed somewhat weak.

0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.160
<v Speaker 3>And I have been very clear about this one hundred times,

0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.400
<v Speaker 3>so I don't know how many times, but many many times.

0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.200
<v Speaker 4>And the reason and I think the other thing we've

0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.120
<v Speaker 4>seen is that hasn't really been working. The coalitions continue

0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:19.959
<v Speaker 4>to lose ground to One Nation in the polls. I

0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.720
<v Speaker 4>think there's been a lot of internal kind of push

0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.160
<v Speaker 4>to take a harder line against one nation. You've obviously

0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.760
<v Speaker 4>had some coalition MPs entertained this idea of an alliance,

0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:34.079
<v Speaker 4>for example Tony Passon, the South Australian Front bencher, and

0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.160
<v Speaker 4>then you've had a lot of other people quite frustrated

0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.160
<v Speaker 4>by that tactic, saying, you know, the election's not for

0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.360
<v Speaker 4>another couple of years, we can't throw in the town now.

0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.800
<v Speaker 4>So I think we've seen Taylor kind of this week

0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.560
<v Speaker 4>adopt that stance. Whether it's a little too little, too

0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.680
<v Speaker 4>late to be fully compelling at this stage, I'm not sure,

0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.400
<v Speaker 4>but I think it was probably time for him to

0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.200
<v Speaker 4>articulate a stronger position, and I guess now at least

0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.600
<v Speaker 4>we've seen that definitive stance from him.

0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. How much have the internal machinations within the Liberal

0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Party played on Angus Taylor coming to this position, particularly

0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:15.200
<v Speaker 1>around Andrew Hasty's position, a potential rival to the leadership,

0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.240
<v Speaker 1>who has been very hard line on his stance against

0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.800
<v Speaker 1>one Nation. How much do you think that is driving

0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.440
<v Speaker 1>this shift not only for the Liberal Party but particularly

0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:25.480
<v Speaker 1>for Angus Taylor.

0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.840
<v Speaker 4>I think for the party and for its MPs, it

0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:32.359
<v Speaker 4>is a really active debate, right like there's no blueprint

0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.680
<v Speaker 4>for them in how to get through this.

0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:36.400
<v Speaker 5>I think you've had competing views.

0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.640
<v Speaker 4>You've got the side that thinks a more conciliatory or

0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.200
<v Speaker 4>collaborative approach with one nation might be the way to go,

0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.880
<v Speaker 4>and then you've got the hasty camp, which is this

0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.680
<v Speaker 4>language of we don't bend the knee. You know, it's

0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.840
<v Speaker 4>Taylor's decision as the leader to chart those waders and

0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.720
<v Speaker 4>to figure out the best way to do it. And

0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.880
<v Speaker 4>I think they've obviously come to a position that they

0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:03.160
<v Speaker 4>need to be firmer. The outgoing campaign director Andrew Hurst

0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.600
<v Speaker 4>a few weeks ago as well made that very clear

0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.000
<v Speaker 4>in his final address to the Liberal Party when he said,

0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.400
<v Speaker 4>you know, one nation or not our friends, and we

0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:14.640
<v Speaker 4>can't treat them as such. So I think those warnings

0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.680
<v Speaker 4>have been coming from different parts of the party quite loudly.

0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.640
<v Speaker 4>And then I think both you know, with Taylor finally

0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.440
<v Speaker 4>ruling that out, and also a speech he gave about

0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.359
<v Speaker 4>one Nation where it kind of explained, you know, how

0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:26.279
<v Speaker 4>much one nation.

0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.360
<v Speaker 5>Will cost the nation, I'll blow up the joint, Yeah, exactly.

0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Liberal Party has been doing some further sault seishing this

0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.000
<v Speaker 1>week with the release of a discussion paper throwing around

0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.840
<v Speaker 1>some ideas to rebuild the party after back to back

0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.680
<v Speaker 1>election disasters. What does the paper identify as the party's

0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:42.640
<v Speaker 1>biggest problem?

0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.360
<v Speaker 4>The things that it's identified year after year after year. Really,

0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.400
<v Speaker 4>this paper is picked up on the theme of the

0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:56.039
<v Speaker 4>last election review. It has long term structural issues with

0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.520
<v Speaker 4>membership with young people, with women, and.

0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.400
<v Speaker 5>Also the issue with multicultural communities.

0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.880
<v Speaker 4>And I think previous election reviews have picked up specifically

0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.480
<v Speaker 4>on the Chinese DASP and that being a problem for

0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.279
<v Speaker 4>the Liberal Party. So in some ways it's kind of

0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.560
<v Speaker 4>nothing new to see here. It's rehashing a lot of

0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.440
<v Speaker 4>these structural issues. I think the problem for the coalition

0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.400
<v Speaker 4>in the last six months, in particular, as this one

0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:25.440
<v Speaker 4>nation vote in the polls has soared, is that it's

0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:30.479
<v Speaker 4>kind of become clear that young people, multicultural communities, women

0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.680
<v Speaker 4>go to how do we grow our vote share and

0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:38.400
<v Speaker 4>grow our party and its support. The one nation phenomenon

0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:43.560
<v Speaker 4>changed that dynamic and the question instead became how do

0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.359
<v Speaker 4>we consolidate our support base and stop it bleeding? And

0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.599
<v Speaker 4>I think in some ways they are actually quite different

0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:53.279
<v Speaker 4>questions with quite different strategies, And that's why I think

0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.520
<v Speaker 4>We've not seen this active effort from the Parliamentary Liberal

0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.760
<v Speaker 4>Party in the last six months to chase those other

0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:04.480
<v Speaker 4>demographics because it's been so concerned with shoring up what

0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.679
<v Speaker 4>remains of its support base.

0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.799
<v Speaker 1>And so while this has been happening, all these discussions

0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.680
<v Speaker 1>are taking place, including around how the party engages better

0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.720
<v Speaker 1>with multicultural communities and gets their support. The party's new president,

0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Tony Abbott, released a video called Diversity is Not Our Strengths,

0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.120
<v Speaker 1>arguing that multiculturalism has failed. Now.

0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.560
<v Speaker 6>For many years, migrants to Australia were expected to integrate

0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:36.240
<v Speaker 6>from day one and to assimilate as soon as possible. Lately, though,

0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.440
<v Speaker 6>under the doctrine of multiculturalism, migrants have been encouraged to

0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:41.320
<v Speaker 6>keep their culture.

0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Indeed, how can the party rebuild trust with multicultural voters

0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.719
<v Speaker 1>when its own president is making that argument.

0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:51.200
<v Speaker 5>That's the question, isn't it.

0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.440
<v Speaker 4>We had Angus Taylor kind of dance around this question

0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.440
<v Speaker 4>of multiculturalism a couple of weeks ago, kind of came

0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.720
<v Speaker 4>back to it with what is now a stated support

0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.360
<v Speaker 4>for Australian multiculturalism. But I think then you get to

0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:08.560
<v Speaker 4>a credibility gap, right, and I think that's what the

0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.000
<v Speaker 4>Liberals have kind have been dealing with for the last

0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.160
<v Speaker 4>many years is you can talk the talk at certain

0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:19.120
<v Speaker 4>points and say we support a version of multiculturalism, et cetera,

0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:23.800
<v Speaker 4>but there have obviously been moves commentary that have undermined

0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:27.880
<v Speaker 4>that over time. The other thing that is interesting to

0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.600
<v Speaker 4>me is, you know, we had Susan just talking about

0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.560
<v Speaker 4>some of these issues, you know, women, multicultural communities, younger people,

0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.480
<v Speaker 4>you know, the sensible center, if you like. When Susan

0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.160
<v Speaker 4>Lee came into the leadership a year ago, that was

0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:41.040
<v Speaker 4>very much.

0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:42.480
<v Speaker 5>Where she was pitching herself.

0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.800
<v Speaker 4>We had her kind of trying really hard with a

0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.040
<v Speaker 4>charm offensive in the Indian diaspora community, for example, after

0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.800
<v Speaker 4>the turbulence with the Just Enterprise comments, and we had

0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.200
<v Speaker 4>Susan Lee in her front bench kind of go forward

0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:02.480
<v Speaker 4>and really try to engage with the Indian community. Now

0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.400
<v Speaker 4>we're so much kind of further beyond that with Anger Tailor,

0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, and Anger. Taylor has also made very strong

0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.680
<v Speaker 4>comments on immigration and multiculturalism. He's kind of repeated commentary

0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.720
<v Speaker 4>about you know, standards being too low. What he says

0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:23.680
<v Speaker 4>about migrants from liberal democracy backgrounds being better fits for

0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:28.240
<v Speaker 4>Australia I think all of that does probably create a

0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.679
<v Speaker 4>sense of unease, and we've heard it from multicultural leaders

0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.640
<v Speaker 4>across the community that they do feel kind of targeted

0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.160
<v Speaker 4>or disparaged by that retrick.

0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:38.360
<v Speaker 5>So again, it.

0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.520
<v Speaker 4>Doesn't seem like that's what the party is really trying

0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.319
<v Speaker 4>to do at this point in appealing to those voters.

0:08:48.200 --> 0:09:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Coming up. The politics of migration means economic reality Tasia.

0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Policy wise, an area that the Coalition is mirroring one

0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:13.079
<v Speaker 1>nation is migration promising a lower intake. But you've done

0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.680
<v Speaker 1>some excellent reporting on the economics of cutting immigration this week,

0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.040
<v Speaker 1>and you found that cutting immigration could actually cost billions.

0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:22.200
<v Speaker 1>What did the costing show?

0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so these are the costumes from the Parliamentary Budget Office,

0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.800
<v Speaker 4>which is basically modeled the fiscal impact of migration. I

0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.040
<v Speaker 4>think the key takeout is, in general, migration is good

0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.679
<v Speaker 4>for the economy because migrants tend to be working age,

0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.920
<v Speaker 4>they've kind of done their education abroad, they come in

0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.040
<v Speaker 4>and they over their lifetime tend to pay more tax

0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.280
<v Speaker 4>than they receive in government benefits. So that's kind of

0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.440
<v Speaker 4>one lens and it does show that if you were

0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:56.000
<v Speaker 4>to implement a drastic cut to immigration, the coalition's position

0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.320
<v Speaker 4>could be about one hundred thousand people less than what

0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.000
<v Speaker 4>we've got. Now, you know, that would run into the

0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.360
<v Speaker 4>cost of tens of billions over the forward estimates. One

0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:10.800
<v Speaker 4>nation's kind of got a net zero migration figure, the one.

0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.839
<v Speaker 5>That zero they believe in, which would cost even more.

0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.480
<v Speaker 4>Now, of course, budget impact isn't the only reason. You've

0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:23.599
<v Speaker 4>got to look at infrastructure, a capacity, demographic, social cohesion,

0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.200
<v Speaker 4>and that's obviously part of the picture, and it's an

0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:27.439
<v Speaker 4>important part of the picture.

0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:29.880
<v Speaker 5>But even so, if you.

0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.520
<v Speaker 4>Are a party that does come with a policy of

0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.719
<v Speaker 4>cutting migration, I think it just shows that that does

0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.480
<v Speaker 4>need to be offset elsewhere. And so there's a budget

0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.959
<v Speaker 4>man question there for one nation and also for Angus

0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.640
<v Speaker 4>Taylor at the same time that he's promising, for example,

0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:47.000
<v Speaker 4>to end bracket creep. That's another very costly policy. So

0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.240
<v Speaker 4>the question closer to the election will be how do

0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:50.520
<v Speaker 4>you pay for all of this stuff? And I think

0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.599
<v Speaker 4>that's an issue that Peter Dutton ran into at the

0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.559
<v Speaker 4>last election as well, was making this lower numbers immigration

0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.960
<v Speaker 4>policy square with economic reality.

0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:00.680
<v Speaker 5>Basically.

0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.000
<v Speaker 1>It's actually this week Paul and Hanson was seen holidaying

0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.000
<v Speaker 1>with Gena Aryan Hart in southern Italy in what could

0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.320
<v Speaker 1>only be described as the worst series of white Lotus. Ever,

0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not exactly the battle image that Paul and Hanson's

0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:16.920
<v Speaker 1>been trying to portray for herself, is it.

0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.360
<v Speaker 4>No, No, it's not lounging on a several thousand dollars

0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:22.880
<v Speaker 4>a night at Sicilian.

0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Deck Freshman an interview with Tommy robertson.

0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you know, she has kind of flaunted this relationship

0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:29.480
<v Speaker 4>with Gena Aryan Hart on her plane and all of

0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.280
<v Speaker 4>this stuff over the last six months.

0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.559
<v Speaker 5>That hasn't really seemed to hurt her.

0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.520
<v Speaker 4>I do wonder if the bigger issue maybe with this

0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.559
<v Speaker 4>European trip and the questions being raised around political judgment,

0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.960
<v Speaker 4>whether Europe is where Hanson should be right now daunting around,

0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.640
<v Speaker 4>or whether she should be consolidating her leading the polls

0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.400
<v Speaker 4>and speaking to Australians.

0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.320
<v Speaker 5>And I think maybe that is more of the perception issue.

0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:57.600
<v Speaker 1>There's also been some reports of some internal reactions, particularly

0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.480
<v Speaker 1>with Paul and Henson describing her daughter Lee is a

0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.640
<v Speaker 1>potential future One Nation leader, which apparently put Barnaby Joyce's

0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:09.120
<v Speaker 1>nose out of place. Are we beginning to see the

0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.240
<v Speaker 1>wills fall off one nation or is it too early

0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:11.720
<v Speaker 1>to tell.

0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.240
<v Speaker 4>I think it's too early to tell, but it's certainly

0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.319
<v Speaker 4>getting bumpy, and I think this was always going to happen.

0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 5>You know.

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.120
<v Speaker 4>I remember when post the Phara by election, when new

0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.679
<v Speaker 4>MP David Farley came to Parliament, there was a press

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.960
<v Speaker 4>conference that Hanson held with her new expanded team and

0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.120
<v Speaker 4>it was the first time that I'd ever seen a

0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:34.080
<v Speaker 4>one nation press conference attract a full court of press

0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:35.840
<v Speaker 4>and it got very messy, very quickly.

0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.800
<v Speaker 7>Senator robertson an interview on a YouTube channel a couple

0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 7>of weeks ago, you were asked about whether you thought

0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.440
<v Speaker 7>the born By terror attack was a false flag. You

0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.600
<v Speaker 7>said I doubt it was a false flag, but you

0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.199
<v Speaker 7>went on to say, I don't know the furno the facts.

0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.640
<v Speaker 4>Yet I'm not ruling it out because as we've seen,

0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 4>and especially with Malcolm Roberts, you know, this is a

0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 4>senator who's been espousing some quite fringe views and talking

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.320
<v Speaker 4>about conspiracies for quite a few years now.

0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Sure, two things, First of all, it's an absurd proposition.

0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.760
<v Speaker 3>Second thing is that I make reinforce the fact that

0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 3>I make decisions and statements based on data, and I

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Speaker 3>don't have data on that.

0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, there was no justification.

0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 2>I can speak up from Senator Roberts with regard to

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.000
<v Speaker 2>this no, because it was totally taken out of context.

0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 4>We have shown us No one's really applied the blowtors

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.079
<v Speaker 4>that because it hasn't seemed electorally relevant. But that dynamics

0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.400
<v Speaker 4>now changed, and so you know, the questions are coming

0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.800
<v Speaker 4>from all over the place when it comes to Hanson

0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.360
<v Speaker 4>and her crew, and I think, you know, raining that

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 4>in keeping it tight, keeping it focused and then looking

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.360
<v Speaker 4>like a party that could form government is going to

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 4>be a challenge, and I think we'll see more of

0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.559
<v Speaker 4>that probing. And the other thing is, you know, in

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 4>parliament everyone's in competition. It's usually you know, Labor and

0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.760
<v Speaker 4>the Coalition turning their focus to each other, but now

0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.080
<v Speaker 4>both those parties are also turning their focus to one nation.

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 4>Like we will continue to see quite a lot of

0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:04.000
<v Speaker 4>scrutiny placed on one nation. And given you know a

0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.719
<v Speaker 4>lot of it's Binnaby Joyce is a very experienced politician,

0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 4>the rest not so much so. How they kind of

0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.840
<v Speaker 4>stand up to that increased level of scrutiny, it will

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.560
<v Speaker 4>be really interesting we'll.

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.240
<v Speaker 1>Be here for it before we let it go. Natassia.

0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Labour inherited an age care system that have been condemned

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.880
<v Speaker 1>by a Royal commission and made fixing it one of

0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 1>its central promises. But this week the outgoing Age care

0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.400
<v Speaker 1>watchdog said she believes Labour's reforms are harming some of

0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.240
<v Speaker 1>the older people that were designed to help what's going

0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 1>wrong with age care.

0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 4>So Labour's attempted a kind of funding reset or overhaul,

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.280
<v Speaker 4>if you will, of the age care system. The impetus

0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 4>for that is that we do have an aging population

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 4>who will demand more care, particularly in the next decade,

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.760
<v Speaker 4>and that's a huge demographic shift. So what Labour's done

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 4>is kind of introduce a user pays model where for

0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.920
<v Speaker 4>some elements of home care and age can now people

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 4>with the means expected to pay more for their care.

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 4>We're also seeing a trend broadly of people wanting to

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 4>stay at home as they age. Part of that is,

0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.120
<v Speaker 4>you know, it's a lot of people's preference and for

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:18.240
<v Speaker 4>the government that's also important because there's not residential age

0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 4>care beds for everyone. I think the Health Minister says

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.240
<v Speaker 4>that you'd need to be building, you know, an age

0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.920
<v Speaker 4>care facility every three days to keep up with demand.

0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 4>What we heard from the Age Care Inspector General who's

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 4>leaving her post at the end of the month, so

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 4>she was kind of free, free to speak as candidly

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.160
<v Speaker 4>as she wanted, a rare opportunity for a public servant.

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 4>Her take was that the focus on residential age care

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 4>in the first place is not right. She thinks that

0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.200
<v Speaker 4>home care, home care that kind of centers the rights

0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.240
<v Speaker 4>and independence of the individual, is where policy needs to be.

0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 4>And her argument was that this new user pays model,

0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 4>which is affecting a lot of pensioners and semi pensioners,

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 4>risks having a detrimental effect in the long run, because

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.720
<v Speaker 4>once you make people pay for things, they're less likely

0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.280
<v Speaker 4>to take those things out. And so what she thinks

0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 4>that will do is disincentivize people to seek care at

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 4>home until the point that you do end up pushing

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.480
<v Speaker 4>everyone into residential age care. At that point they are

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.520
<v Speaker 4>older and sicker, and residential age care is more expensive,

0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 4>so it's also more expensive to the taxpayer. There has

0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 4>been this issue with home care package as well, this

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:30.960
<v Speaker 4>huge bottleneck because there is so much demand. The government's

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 4>argument is there's not really the workforce there, and that

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 4>they are bringing hundreds of thousands of home care packages online,

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:38.840
<v Speaker 4>so they're doing.

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:39.400
<v Speaker 5>Something to a system.

0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.600
<v Speaker 4>They say it's been neglected, but you know, there are

0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:47.120
<v Speaker 4>these kind of broader structural trends and challenges that I

0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 4>think perhaps the government talks about in a way that

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 4>does frame it as a problem. I think the Age

0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 4>Care Inspector General, we're saying that that fatalism doesn't serve anyone,

0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.640
<v Speaker 4>so she wants to see, you know, more investment and

0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.560
<v Speaker 4>a rethink of that consumer co contribution model.

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.880
<v Speaker 1>If we do have problems with an hecare workforce, where

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.720
<v Speaker 1>will we get that workforce from Natasia. It's a rhetorical question.

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.399
<v Speaker 1>You don't have to answer it. But thank you so much.

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.040
<v Speaker 4>Forr relaunch twenty minutes to our migration conversation and we

0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:17.280
<v Speaker 4>can keep going in circles.

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Hey, Natasia, thank you so much for your time.

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:20.159
<v Speaker 5>Thank you.

0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Seven Am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 1>made by Ari R. Richards, Niicus Basto, Chris Dangate, Crystal Keller,

0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Renee Auckland, Ruby Jones, Travis Evans, zoltanfet, Joe Junior and

0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.680
<v Speaker 1>me Daniel James. Our theme music is by Ned Beckley

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:55.199
<v Speaker 1>and Josh Hogan of Envelope Portio. Have yourself a great weekend,

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.000
<v Speaker 1>and if you haven't already, you can follow seven am

0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram and subscribe on you And if you're feeling

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.560
<v Speaker 1>particularly generous, you'd also leave us a review. It helps

0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 1>other people find the podcast