WEBVTT - TheFlood - Episode 3: We are sinking

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, it's Claire from the Front. We're bringing you a

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<v Speaker 1>new mini series from The Australian called The Flood, and

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<v Speaker 1>this is episode three. The series is hosted by Chief

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<v Speaker 1>International Correspondent Cameron Stewart and created by Cam with me

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<v Speaker 1>and our audio lead Jasper Leik, plus all of us

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<v Speaker 1>here at The Australian. It tells the incredible true story

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<v Speaker 1>of how sixty Australian sub mariners saved their own lives

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<v Speaker 1>and their boat. The Flood is a truly inspirational story

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<v Speaker 1>of human courage, resilience, teamwork and ingenuity. You can follow

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<v Speaker 1>the show by searching The Flood wherever you listen and

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<v Speaker 1>going to the floodpodcast dot com, where you can also

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<v Speaker 1>watch it as a video. The Flood is brought to

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<v Speaker 1>you by the Australian War Memorial. Some stories define a nation,

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<v Speaker 1>others reveal what it means to be human. Through Their

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<v Speaker 1>Eyes is a new podcast from the Australian War Memorial

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<v Speaker 1>that uncovers powerful human stories, revealing war through unexpected perspectives

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<v Speaker 1>and immersive storytelling. Through Their Eyes will be live soon

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<v Speaker 1>wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm married, we have a daughter.

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<v Speaker 3>Ah.

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<v Speaker 4>There are certainly moments when my mind went to them.

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<v Speaker 4>Certainly a moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Where you know, just the you know, the young lad. Sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>just take a moment.

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<v Speaker 5>My wife so may at night and knows I have

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<v Speaker 5>nightmares mots nights about it. What do you do? You

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<v Speaker 5>either get on the horse and keep going or you

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<v Speaker 5>let it rule your life. And it'd certainly changed my life,

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<v Speaker 5>but it's not going to own me.

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<v Speaker 6>From the Australian I'm Cameron Stewart and this is the Flood,

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<v Speaker 6>Episode three. We are sinking. It is February twelve, two

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<v Speaker 6>thousand and three, and the Royal Australian Navy submarine Hmasdshano

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<v Speaker 6>was seconds away from sinking to the bottom of the

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<v Speaker 6>Indian Ocean, taking her sixty crew with her. A catastrophic

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<v Speaker 6>flood engulf the submarine after a seawater hose burst while

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<v Speaker 6>it was at its deepest diving depth fifty nautical miles

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<v Speaker 6>off the coast of Perth.

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<v Speaker 4>We worked out later that we had a ton of

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<v Speaker 4>sea water coming into the submarine every second. A ton

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<v Speaker 4>of sea water is the same as one hundred crates

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<v Speaker 4>of your favorite lager coming into your submarine every second

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<v Speaker 4>through a hole about that big.

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<v Speaker 6>But At this moment, Commander Scott had no idea how

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<v Speaker 6>much seawater had flooded his submarine. It didn't even know

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<v Speaker 6>for sure if the flood had stopped. His crew had

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<v Speaker 6>just performed the emergency procedures designed to try to save

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<v Speaker 6>the submarine and themselves. They're blowing all of the boats ballast,

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<v Speaker 6>shut all of the dashana's external hole valves, and increased

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<v Speaker 6>the motor to full speed while angling the submarine at

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<v Speaker 6>twenty degree upward tilt, double the usual to try to

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<v Speaker 6>gather enough momentum to climb back to the surface. There

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<v Speaker 6>was no margin for error.

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<v Speaker 4>I had a well trained crew, I had an exceptional

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<v Speaker 4>boat with a lot of redundancy. I've been in sticky

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<v Speaker 4>situations before, I've seen submarines, and I knew that if

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<v Speaker 4>we kept our call, did what we knew we needed

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<v Speaker 4>to do, exercise discipline, bring all the sort of expertise

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<v Speaker 4>that we had to bear on board, then we would

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<v Speaker 4>have the best chance of pulling through.

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<v Speaker 6>The trouble was that in the first few seconds, the

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<v Speaker 6>crew in the control room did all that they could

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<v Speaker 6>to save the submarine. That initiated all of the emergency

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<v Speaker 6>operating procedures quickly and flawlessly. There was nothing more they

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<v Speaker 6>could do but sit and watch the depth gauge. The

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<v Speaker 6>men and women aboard the Dushano were entering the longest

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<v Speaker 6>minutes of their lives, waiting to see if they had

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<v Speaker 6>saved their crippled submarine and themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>It went very quiet.

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<v Speaker 4>They went very quiet because we've kind of done everything

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<v Speaker 4>we knew we could do. There are a few outstation

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<v Speaker 4>reports and stuff coming in, but you know, there's a

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<v Speaker 4>few moments there we were kind of going, Okay, we've

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<v Speaker 4>done what we've been taught and trained to do, and

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<v Speaker 4>we haven't won this one yet, so where are we

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<v Speaker 4>going from here? You get to a point where you've

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<v Speaker 4>certainly done everything you can with blowing main ballast, But

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<v Speaker 4>of course the submarine takes a moment to.

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<v Speaker 2>Build up speed.

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<v Speaker 4>Very powerful main motor, but it's a big submarine and

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<v Speaker 4>it takes time to build up speed. The more speed

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<v Speaker 4>you get, the more control you have with your hydroplanes.

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<v Speaker 4>It's that combination of effect.

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<v Speaker 2>Blow your main.

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<v Speaker 4>Ballast, get rid of that weight, build up the speed,

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<v Speaker 4>get the boat pitched at the right angle to be

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<v Speaker 4>heading towards the roof, and start pumping to get rid

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<v Speaker 4>of any other weight that you possibly can all ideally

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<v Speaker 4>before you know that combination goes the wrong way irreversibly.

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<v Speaker 6>Commander Scott was too busy in the control room to

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<v Speaker 6>know exactly what was happening in the lower motor room

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<v Speaker 6>at the back of the submarine, where the flood had occurred.

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<v Speaker 6>He did not know that Petty obviously Jordi Bunting, had

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<v Speaker 6>almost drowned before being saved by his crewmates. He had

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<v Speaker 6>not yet been told that the flood had been halted

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<v Speaker 6>by the shutting off of the external whole valves, and

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<v Speaker 6>he still had no idea how much seawater flooded into

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<v Speaker 6>his boat. In short, he had no way of knowing

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<v Speaker 6>whether the Dushana was going to make it back to

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<v Speaker 6>the surface.

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<v Speaker 4>It might have been physical mayhem at the back of

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<v Speaker 4>the boat. I think the crew were actually pretty darn cool,

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<v Speaker 4>calm and collected. So there were a number of folk

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<v Speaker 4>stationed after the main watertight bulkheads, and they would have

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<v Speaker 4>been providing reports back up into the control room about

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<v Speaker 4>where they'd seen the flood, what was occurring, and what

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<v Speaker 4>they were doing about it.

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<v Speaker 2>But it took quite a while to.

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<v Speaker 4>Develop any real understanding of the total damage and the

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<v Speaker 4>turtlemount of water and the stadium.

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<v Speaker 2>Of people back there.

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<v Speaker 6>Even after Greg Sullivan and Michael Morris had pulled Jordie

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<v Speaker 6>Bunting out of the flooded lower motor room, the lives

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<v Speaker 6>of everyone in the main motor room were risk as

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<v Speaker 6>the sea water washed over electrical equipment, putting the crew

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<v Speaker 6>there in grave danger of being electrocuted.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sure it would have been pretty terrifying as they

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<v Speaker 4>saw the submarine pitch up and all the water that

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<v Speaker 4>had flooded into that motor room move aft and around

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<v Speaker 4>the main motor which has got huge voltage and power

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<v Speaker 4>going going through it.

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<v Speaker 6>At the time, Chief engineer John Ryan had run the

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<v Speaker 6>length of the submarine to jump into the flooded lower

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<v Speaker 6>motor room to try to identify the source of the flood,

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<v Speaker 6>but as the water swirled around him, he realized the danger.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean the water was swirling where there was water

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<v Speaker 3>pouring in there under pressure. We yield up to isolate

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<v Speaker 3>some of the equipment so that it didn't fry, or

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<v Speaker 3>we didn't fry in the water.

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<v Speaker 2>Because what was the danger there electrocution?

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<v Speaker 3>We were standing ways deep in seawater.

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<v Speaker 6>For what felt like an eternity. The submarine refused to

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<v Speaker 6>respond to efforts by the crew to get it to rise.

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<v Speaker 6>It was traveling at full speed, with its whole point

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<v Speaker 6>at twenty degrees upwards, but still it did not respond. Then,

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<v Speaker 6>to the horror of everyone on board, it began to

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<v Speaker 6>sink further. The submarine was heading into the Abyss. Twenty

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<v Speaker 6>years after the flood, Peter Scott published his memoir Running Deep,

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<v Speaker 6>an Australian Submarine Life, which we heard an excerpt from

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<v Speaker 6>in episode two of this series. Here, Scott vividly recalls

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<v Speaker 6>the moment his cruise fate hung in the balance.

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<v Speaker 2>My heart is beating through my neck. I know, we

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<v Speaker 2>all know.

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<v Speaker 4>If we go down in this stpth of water, we

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<v Speaker 4>will be crushed by the pressure before we hit the bottom.

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<v Speaker 4>Once the pressure will splits, the ocean's onslaught will be

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<v Speaker 4>absolute in its violence. Though it be the world to us,

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<v Speaker 4>the ocean would fill our submarine as effortlessly as it

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<v Speaker 4>would fill my lungs, without a moment's hesitation or a

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<v Speaker 4>sciric of remorse.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no coming back.

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<v Speaker 4>We've been here before, We've trained for this. Some of

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<v Speaker 4>us have trained for our whole adult lives. I have

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<v Speaker 4>the submarine, I say, resuming full command.

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<v Speaker 6>Now you're at the deepest diving depth. You were looking

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<v Speaker 6>at the gauge to see whether you were sinking or otherwise.

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<v Speaker 6>You're already at the deepest diving depth. What did you

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<v Speaker 6>initially see?

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<v Speaker 2>So the boat just hung for.

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<v Speaker 4>What seemed like an eternity and then began to slowly sink.

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<v Speaker 6>What went through your mind?

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<v Speaker 2>Then this is all about the wrong way.

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<v Speaker 4>I had enough experience to know that it would take

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<v Speaker 4>some time for the impact of the high pressure air

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<v Speaker 4>to blow the ballast out of the ballast tanks, and

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<v Speaker 4>you know it wasn't over until it was over kind

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<v Speaker 4>of thing. But to see that depth gauge going the

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<v Speaker 4>wrong way at that time, was that was pretty difficult.

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<v Speaker 6>The crew react. They would have seen the same depth gate.

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<v Speaker 4>Anyone who anyone who could see a depth gauge would

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<v Speaker 4>have been looking at a depth gauge at that stage.

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<v Speaker 2>They probably would have had similar reaction to myself.

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<v Speaker 6>Commander Scott could feel the eyes of his crew upon him.

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<v Speaker 4>So I'm standing in the middle of the control room.

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<v Speaker 4>Control room's fully crude. Everything's pretty tight in there. There

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<v Speaker 4>was a sailor sitting probably arms for each away on

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<v Speaker 4>the SNAr set, and I remember he turned and looked

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<v Speaker 4>to me. He wasn't saying anything, but he was very

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<v Speaker 4>clearly asking, you know, we're going to.

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<v Speaker 2>Get out of this. And I was not in a

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<v Speaker 2>position to say, she'll be right, mate.

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<v Speaker 4>What I was in a position to say was we're

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<v Speaker 4>going to fight like hell to make sure we do

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<v Speaker 4>and we'll see how it goes. One of the remarkable

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<v Speaker 4>things about a circumstance like that was the crew members

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<v Speaker 4>who were in a position to do something did exactly

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<v Speaker 4>what they needed to do. There were a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>members of the crew who were not in a position.

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<v Speaker 2>To do anything.

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<v Speaker 4>Their job at that time was to trust their shipmates

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<v Speaker 4>and be ready to lean in when they could so.

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<v Speaker 6>Owner Operator Melanie Ellerton was one of those crew members

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<v Speaker 6>who could only watch the drama unfold around her.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, like, how far past is is limit going to go?

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<v Speaker 7>Before the submarine says no, you can't handle that pressure

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<v Speaker 7>anymore to actually say we're going back up. But when

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<v Speaker 7>you're looking at that death gauge, you're going that's our limit,

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<v Speaker 7>and now we're going below that limit. There was a

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<v Speaker 7>lot going through a Heathan, please budge Ally God that

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<v Speaker 7>we come back up.

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<v Speaker 6>Every sailor knew were going down.

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<v Speaker 7>Would mean very much like a coke can getting crushed.

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<v Speaker 7>Pretty the best way to describe it. It would have

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<v Speaker 7>been a very quick, very swift and probably the one

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<v Speaker 7>if you're thinking about it now, it'll be that it

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<v Speaker 7>would have been the best way to go. If you're

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<v Speaker 7>going to go on a submarine, it'll be the best

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<v Speaker 7>way because you wouldn't feel it. That's one saving grace

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<v Speaker 7>of it all.

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<v Speaker 6>At that moment, down the back of the submarine in

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<v Speaker 6>the motor room, a dazed and drenched Jaydie Bunting was

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<v Speaker 6>trying to recover as seawater washed it dangerously over electrical equipment.

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<v Speaker 5>I didn't know where I was. There was a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of noise. Despite the fact that the whole vals was

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<v Speaker 5>shot and the flooding was no longer rising, the submarine

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<v Speaker 5>is still extremely heavy and it wasn't coming up. The

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<v Speaker 5>angle at the boat was on was pretty scary.

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<v Speaker 1>The flood is brought to you by the Australian War

0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Memorial What does War look like through the eyes of

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.440
<v Speaker 1>the people who lived it? Through their eyes is a

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.240
<v Speaker 1>new podcast from the Australian War Memorial that uncovers deeply

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:41.160
<v Speaker 1>human stories drawn from the awm's vast collections, galleries and

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:46.720
<v Speaker 1>expert insights through unexpected perspectives and immersive storytelling. Each episode

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.520
<v Speaker 1>brings history to life in a way that's personal, moving

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:55.360
<v Speaker 1>and relevant today. Discover the stories behind our history. Listen

0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.679
<v Speaker 1>to Through Their Eyes soon wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 4>Very soon after the flood occurred, I was trying to

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<v Speaker 4>work out how to shape, how to behave, how to

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<v Speaker 4>think through the problems that we were facing, so that

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<v Speaker 4>we could achieve advantage a month to three months downtrack,

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<v Speaker 4>because I knew that the incident was serious enough that

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<v Speaker 4>it could have long term impact on the ship's company

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<v Speaker 4>and that would either be long term positive or long

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<v Speaker 4>term negative. And what was said and the way we

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 4>behaved and the way we went through the immediate was

0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 4>going to have an impact on the long term. So

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 4>my head was in a lot of different places. It

0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.880
<v Speaker 4>was certainly there watching and understanding everything that the ship's

0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 4>can company was doing and just tracking all of that

0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:07.480
<v Speaker 4>as the flood occurred, but it was also part of

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 4>my mind too, how do we shape this to create

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.360
<v Speaker 4>a long term positive impact at the back end.

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:18.640
<v Speaker 6>Now that's Captain Scott, that's you as captain having that responsibility.

0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 6>What about the private Peter at that moment when the

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 6>flat happens.

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you know there's a few private Peters.

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm married, we have a daughter.

0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Ah.

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 4>There are certainly moments when my mind went to them.

0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Ah.

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 2>There certainly a moment ah where you know, just the

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:06.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, the young lad. So I just take a moment.

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:21.560
<v Speaker 2>That was not the way the young boy who eventually

0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.160
<v Speaker 2>joined the Navy wanted to go. I didn't want to

0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 2>meet the guy who took that crew to the bottom.

0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.880
<v Speaker 6>But then a miracle happened.

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 4>It did start to flatten out and recover, and once

0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 4>the boat started moving, it really started moving.

0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.880
<v Speaker 6>Colin's Class submarines can travel it up to twenty knots

0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 6>just under forty kilometers per hour. For the past three minutes,

0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 6>although it felt like forever, the crew had been hanging

0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.360
<v Speaker 6>between life and death Nobody's boat. As the boat rose

0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.160
<v Speaker 6>towards the surface, slowly at first, then picking up speed

0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.760
<v Speaker 6>as it went. Finally, the Shana's black hole exploded out

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.360
<v Speaker 6>of the Indian Ocean and into the summer sunlight.

0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we came through with a bit of speed on

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 4>and a bit of angle, so we sort of bounced

0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 4>through the roof and then sort of willow back down.

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.520
<v Speaker 6>Is everything like at that point or is? I mean,

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.240
<v Speaker 6>tell us about the dangers that you still faced even

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 6>though you were now at the surface.

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.840
<v Speaker 4>So it comes to the fact that we did not

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.840
<v Speaker 4>know the state of our submarine. We didn't know the

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 4>state of our hydraulic systems, electrical systems.

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:40.679
<v Speaker 2>We didn't know how much water we had on the boat.

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.960
<v Speaker 4>We didn't know what casualties we'd suffer and therefore we

0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.520
<v Speaker 4>know what expertise we'd lost and so on. We didn't

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.640
<v Speaker 4>know probably at that point, whether there'd been other issues,

0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.480
<v Speaker 4>like you know, had fire started or whatever. So once

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.760
<v Speaker 4>we were on the roof, a really serious damaged control

0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:05.600
<v Speaker 4>battle kind of began, and that just became a long

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.680
<v Speaker 4>and difficult battle to understand the situation and get control

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.240
<v Speaker 4>of where we're at. It took about three minutes from

0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.920
<v Speaker 4>the time of the initial flood to conduct all those

0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.960
<v Speaker 4>coops and get the boat moving and break the surface

0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.360
<v Speaker 4>was probably about about three minutes in time.

0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.679
<v Speaker 6>The Duschano. We made it back to the surface, but

0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 6>it was not yet out of trouble. It had blown

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.160
<v Speaker 6>all of its ballast tanks and there was no certainty

0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.720
<v Speaker 6>that it would not sink again. Could it make it

0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.240
<v Speaker 6>back to port? Was everyone safe? How would the Navy

0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 6>handle this near disaster? What would it mean for the

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.160
<v Speaker 6>Duschano and for all of the Colins class submarines which

0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:51.040
<v Speaker 6>were already under serious scrutiny. Geordie Rocker, Bunting and John

0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:52.359
<v Speaker 6>Ryan recall the moment.

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:55.760
<v Speaker 5>It was a long trens at back. I can remember

0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 5>that because we were severely speed restricted because of the

0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 5>damage that had been done to the main mater cooling gear.

0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:04.920
<v Speaker 5>There was a lot of work going on to try

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.560
<v Speaker 5>and get systems back up to get us home safe,

0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.120
<v Speaker 5>and that was obviously carried out.

0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:12.920
<v Speaker 2>But that time coming back in.

0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, I guess just the time to reflect and come

0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.240
<v Speaker 5>to groups with what had just happened.

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:26.040
<v Speaker 3>As a general rule, you can't smoke anywhere on the submarine. Saturday,

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 3>I just went to the boss and said, you know,

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:30.520
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to take rock and we're gonna have a smoke.

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Ye VISs Episode three of our four part series, which

0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.840
<v Speaker 1>the Australian subscribers here first at the floodpodcast dot com

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.160
<v Speaker 1>and Apple Podcasts. Next week.

0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.800
<v Speaker 2>On the Flood, I wrung my.

0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 5>Wife and said we've had a bit of a mishoe.

0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.639
<v Speaker 5>Can you come and pick me up and pick up

0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:57.199
<v Speaker 5>some cigarettes? Whine I got wet.

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.919
<v Speaker 1>The Flood is an audio and video investigation for The

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Australian by Cameron Stewart, executive producer Claire Harvey and editor

0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Jasper Leigue. You can watch the video right now at

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.520
<v Speaker 1>the Flood podcast dot com. Our theme is composed by

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Jasper Leik, cinematography is by Andy Taylor and video editing

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.520
<v Speaker 1>by Lachlan Crear. Additional footage was shot by Luke Geldard

0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.439
<v Speaker 1>and Peter Aqualina. Our graphics of by Sean Callanan and

0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:38.600
<v Speaker 1>animations by Franklin. Special thanks to Kristin Amiot, Ryan Elfin,

0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:52.080
<v Speaker 1>the Australian National Maritime Museum and the Australian War Memorial. Captured, Imprisoned,

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Determined to Survive through first hand accounts from the Australian

0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.960
<v Speaker 1>War Memorial's archives. Through Their Eyes reveals what it meant

0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 1>to endure captivity, maintain hope and survive against the odds.

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Listen to Through Their Eyes wherever you get your podcasts,