1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: ailmar This year one of Australia's best fintech success stories 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: turns ten. Air Wallacks began in twenty fifteen after its 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: founders discovered how expensive it was to make cross boarder payments. 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: The result was air Wallas, one of Australia's fastest growing companies, 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: helping other businesses to make and receive payments in any 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: currency around the world. Air Wallacks has attracted backers ranging 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: from Australian venture funds to US and Chinese investment giants, 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: and was most recently valued at about five point six 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: billion US dollars. It's about nine billion, Ossie. It's a 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: remarkable success story. Lucy lu is the co founder and 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: president of air Wallas, which is a great supporter of 13 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: this podcast. Lucy, Welcome to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: Thank you, Sean, thank you glad to be here. 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: For those listeners who don't know air wallacks, very briefly 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: tell us the story of how you came up with 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: the idea, because it is a great story. 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: Oh sure, so, I guess almost ten years ago my 19 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 2: covind as I had a Melbourne cafe where we really 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: saw a lot of difficulties in making cost border payments 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: and coming from like an engineering and tech background, we 22 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: thought that, you know, this is a problem that we 23 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: could create a solution for and that's when we founded 24 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: air Wallos And initially we were focusing on fax and 25 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: simple invoice payment products, but over the nine years we've 26 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: evolved into a I guess leading global platform for businesses 27 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: and we offer everything from payments, treasury spent management, to 28 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: EMBEDI finance. 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so what's your comparative advantage? So why air wallacks 30 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,919 Speaker 1: as opposed to one of the other card providers. 31 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: Well, I think, well, air works is not just about 32 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: card payments, right, we also do a lot of the 33 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: other payment and to end solutions that traditional financial institutions 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: and other FinTechs might not cover. And we're probably one 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: of the only companies that can support business of all sizes, 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: so from your sool traders all the way up to 37 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: multinational global businesses. And yeah, so I think we have 38 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: the licenses that require you know, extensive coverage in the 39 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: countries that we operate in, and we have you know, 40 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: over fifty banking partners, so it's a very significant coverage 41 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: and the suite of products that we offer is also 42 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: very extensive. 43 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: And how do you compare on price? 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: So I think payments these days are very commoditized. So 45 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: initially when we first started, we would advertise that we 46 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 2: are significantly cheaper than banks, you know, all the way 47 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: up to more than eighty percent. But I think more 48 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 2: and more, like in the recent years, payments has become 49 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: quite I wouldn't say cheap, but it's fairly market driven 50 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 2: price and obviously we are very competitive in that end. 51 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: But also it's in addition to all the value adds 52 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: that we have to our customers. That's I guess, in 53 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: a way more important than the cheaper price. And you know, 54 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: it's about adding value, which is why also we launched 55 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: in better Finance, which is creating more revenue streams for 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: customers in addition to saving them costs. 57 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so I've had incredible growth over the last nine 58 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: or so years, more than one hundred thousand customers around 59 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: the world, sixty licenses registrations across Asia, Europe, North America, 60 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: and our own region. Of course, I was reading that 61 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: you were sitting at about four hundred million dollars in 62 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: revenue given that your relatively short period, and I presume 63 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: your revenue is from foreign exchange transactions, so it's the 64 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: black box if I'm paying for something in Singapore and 65 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: it's paying Singaporean dollars coming out and Aussie dollars, so 66 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: that black box in the middle. Are you guys five 67 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: a million in revenue? How have you grown so fast? 68 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 2: So it's not just about the airfax So it's basically 69 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: just a transaction fee that we take from every translation 70 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: that we make. So currently we've surpassed about one hundred 71 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 2: billion US dollars in annual transaction volume, so you can 72 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: easily calculate from there where the revenue is coming from. Yeah, 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: so I think we started making revenue in about twoy eighteen, 74 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: so it's about seven years in growth and currently we're 75 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: still growing about sixty seventy percent in terms of year 76 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: to year on year revenue growth. And that's just coming 77 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: from adding additional products all the time and expanding our coverage, 78 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: you know, growing into emergent market where some of the 79 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: I guess the tech rates and the transaction fees are 80 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: fairly high, especially if you're transacting non US and non 81 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: major currency like FX transactions. But like I said, you know, 82 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: it's not only from Fax, and especially when we started 83 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: going into the car business and also payment receptions business, 84 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,239 Speaker 2: where I guess the margin is slightly higher as well 85 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: compared to your like I said, very commoditized FX transactions. 86 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: Okay, Lisa, I want to talk about the future of 87 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: air Wallox, a potential IPO, how the company can sustain 88 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: such impressive growth. We'll be back in a moment. I'm 89 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: speaking with Lucy Leuke, co founder and president of air Wallox. 90 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: So how do you keep that growth rate that we're 91 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: just talking about going? 92 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: So I think one is having a very strong team 93 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 2: and also growing together with the business. We're all about 94 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: innovation and you know, embracing the change that's happening in 95 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: the micro market. So as you know, you know, in 96 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: the past few years, a lot has changed, and being 97 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: like having a high growth company means that you have 98 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: to adapt to any change that's coming your way. So 99 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: I think having a very strong product. You know, initially 100 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: we didn't really have a very good product market fit, 101 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: but we quickly adjusted and as soon as our first 102 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: structure product got attraction that we wanted from there, we 103 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: just quickly you know, responded to the market and responded 104 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 2: to customer needs and making the bigger bets on I 105 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 2: guess doing a lot of things at once, but then 106 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: executing them really well. So that comes from having a 107 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: very strong team and growing in different regions and making 108 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: those quite bold moves. So going to the future, I 109 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: think last year we really started like marketing moves. You know, 110 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: the McClaren Racing partnership that we signed early last year 111 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: is probably one of the highlights for us because it 112 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 2: really means we are now associating with bigger brands and 113 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: coming out a little bit more because as a you know, 114 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: B to B business, our customers knows us, but we 115 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: probably haven't done too much marketing in the early years. 116 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: So I think these are quite a few things that 117 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: we're very excited about. And recently we also started our 118 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: social impact program, which means now we're also giving back 119 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: to the community, working with for example, University of Melbourne, 120 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: working with startups, and committing to like programs like the 121 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: Pledge one Percent. So I think these are the things 122 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: that we are now starting to do as become like 123 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: a bigger and more mature company. 124 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: How important is China to your success going forward? 125 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: I think China is one of the key markets that 126 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: we operate in. I think, you know, China is a 127 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: very especially what we're working with you e commerce and 128 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: digital companies, so it's always going to be I guess, 129 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: a key market that we do. But we're a globalized business. 130 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: So this year, you know, the focus has been a 131 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 2: lot more into the emergent markets. For example, we recently 132 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: got our Brazilian license, we acquired a company in Mexico, 133 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: so a lot of things are happening. Yeah, and China 134 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: is just I guess, part of part of the business 135 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: that we do. 136 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: Okay, what about an IPO. There's always talk in Australia 137 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: at least about air weallex ipling on the assumption that 138 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: will happen at some point in the future. Do you 139 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: think it's very far away? 140 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: I think I feel I guess it's part of business. 141 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of the things that we keep 142 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: in our mind. But I would say that, like you said, 143 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 2: at some point, but we're not in a rush or 144 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: anything in a moment. We're cashful positive and you know, 145 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 2: revenue is still, like I said, growing berg quickly, so 146 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: we have that option. Like our CEO also said, you 147 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: know we want to be ready for it, So I 148 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 2: think that's I guess a process, but at this point 149 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: probably I don't really have any time point that I 150 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: can share. 151 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what about AI? I know that your co 152 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: founder and CEO, Jack Thing spoke about leveraging more generative AI, 153 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: and I mean, as far as I can tell in 154 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: my research, mostly that's almost about user experience, using AI 155 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: to help the user experience? Is that? Am I right there? 156 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: And how do you think you'll be able to use 157 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: AI going forward? 158 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: So II for air Wallocks means application in a lot 159 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: of the areas. It's the bigger concept is obviously, like 160 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 2: you said, improving customer experience, you know, in the onboarding 161 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: process and in customer support, but also we are experiment 162 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: and using it in our back offices as well, so 163 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: improving our operational efficiency, helping ourselves team better I guess, 164 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: serve our customers, and making sure that the team is 165 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: also I guess learning to use AI tools as part 166 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: of their everyday work. So it's and risk management is 167 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: another area that we're currently using AI for. So I 168 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 2: think right now it's all about testing and traveling and 169 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: seeing how that translates into like business goals and how 170 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: that helps us and as I guess, in smaller areas 171 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: and spread out across the business. 172 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: You see ten years ago when you were sitting in 173 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: the cafe in Melbourne talking about being frustrated about making 174 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: offshore payments, would you ever have imagined that you would 175 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: be where you are today? 176 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't. I mean, we were always 177 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: very ambitious, but I think a lot of the things 178 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: that happened in the market as well as in their 179 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 2: works is something that we didn't anticipate and a lot 180 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: of the ideas, I mean, the bigger goal has always 181 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: been the same, but how we actually got to where 182 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: we today probably evolved over the years. And you know, 183 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: it is a fast changing environment as well. But I 184 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: guess must have done something right and we're here today 185 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 2: and we're looking forward to the next ten years of 186 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: the business as well. 187 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: Lucie, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 188 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. 189 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: Sean. There was Lucy Luke have, founder and president of 190 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: air Wallax, which is a great supporter of this podcast. 191 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us 192 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed 193 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: Daily Business years for people who make their own decisions. 194 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: I'm Seane elma enjoy your day.