Speaker 1: A good eight champs and championettes. I guess it's champs around, really,
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's not a gender thing, good a champs.
Speaker 1: It's Jumbo, it's Tiff, it's Bobby, it's the Project, that's you.
Speaker 1: It's Thursday. Is it Thursday? Ye, it's Thursday, and we're
Speaker 1: all busy, We're busy. Just what's her name? Tiff? I
Speaker 1: had Tazzy and Tiff. TIFFs just got back from Tazzy,
Speaker 1: so that twenty seven times fast. And Bobby's just got
Speaker 1: back from the West Coast to the East coast, No,
Speaker 1: the other way around the East coast to the West coast.
Speaker 1: Is it nice being back in the sun, Bobby.
Speaker 2: Well, it's Clardyon raining here. It was really nice being
Speaker 2: back on the East coast. To be fair, it's blows freezing.
Speaker 2: It got colder in New York than it wasn't Antartica
Speaker 2: at one point, but I loved it.
Speaker 1: Nice. Tazzy was Tazzy colder than here.
Speaker 3: Tiff, Well, thank you for Lee because here was quite
Speaker 3: ludicrous when I left, but it was. It was about
Speaker 3: twenty two to twenty three every day, which in Taggy
Speaker 3: is just lovely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well it's all been going on. We've
Speaker 1: all had a few things going on. I want to
Speaker 1: unpack any of mine, but I will one day. And Bobby,
Speaker 1: how are you feeling because you've had a few peaks
Speaker 1: and troughs. How's your head, how's your heart, how's your energy?
Speaker 1: How to work?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Things have been things have been intense. A lot
Speaker 2: of stuff happened in hopes. But you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: still alive. I'm still here. So let's talk about that.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about like all of us coaches, all of
Speaker 1: us are coaches in some shape or form, what's your
Speaker 1: responsibility or what's the expectation? Because I've been thinking about
Speaker 1: this lately.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like you said to me just before we started,
Speaker 1: how are your parents? And I went, yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: tell you. That's not a one minute answer. That's more.
Speaker 1: And by the way, everybody, thanks for all your well wishes.
Speaker 1: A few struggles going on on a planet Harper, but
Speaker 1: they're getting there, they're okay. But what do you think.
Speaker 1: Let's start with you, tif Like, I know you have
Speaker 1: peaks and troughs because you talk about it, our listeners,
Speaker 1: your listeners know about it. And in the middle of
Speaker 1: you know, shit falling apart, which you can sometimes for
Speaker 1: a month or a week or a day or an hour.
Speaker 1: What's your kind of thinking around how do I still
Speaker 1: be that positive, high energy person but also be authentic
Speaker 1: because at the moment, I feel like dogshit, But you
Speaker 1: can't turn up to coach someone and go probably won't
Speaker 1: be a great session because I'm having a moment. How
Speaker 1: do you navigate that?
Speaker 3: I think I'm like when you show up to do
Speaker 3: a job, you kind of step into that not character
Speaker 3: so much, but that professional space, like that headspace. But
Speaker 3: in the middle of that, I feel like I've always
Speaker 3: maintained and a pretty open persona and you know, I
Speaker 3: share what's going on, not not in this session. It's
Speaker 3: like once we're done with that, yeah, definitely, or maybe
Speaker 3: sometimes sometimes it's relevant. Sometimes it's relevant to go, oh,
Speaker 3: this is this is what's going on for me right now,
Speaker 3: and this is what i'm you know, and sometimes there's
Speaker 3: helpful insights in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What about for you? Energy management? Like do you get
Speaker 1: to the point where you go just where I'm at
Speaker 1: right now my energy and my head, like I'm just exhausted,
Speaker 1: I've got no juice in the tank. It's probably better
Speaker 1: for the client that I go listen, Can we just
Speaker 1: put this one on hold? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Often we'll not not putting people on hold often,
Speaker 3: but I often have to manage my energy, especially lately
Speaker 3: like hormones awol, and it's new for me. It's new
Speaker 3: to go. I'm why am I so tired right now?
Speaker 3: And how like, I've had to change a lot of
Speaker 3: how I do things so that I can continue to
Speaker 3: show up because you you know, like it's people first,
Speaker 3: it's your job first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's tricky.
Speaker 2: It's tricky.
Speaker 1: What about you, Robert, What about when you're not you're
Speaker 1: personally not feeling great, but you want to show up
Speaker 1: and be a version of great for your clients, or
Speaker 1: your team or your audience.
Speaker 2: I think my perspective is similar to Tiffanis. First of all,
Speaker 2: I don't think it's important to show up quote unquote
Speaker 2: positive all the time for every session. I was listening
Speaker 2: to your podcast with doctor ca McDonald We love Them.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed that episode. But you had pointed out
Speaker 2: you can't always control how you feel, so there's a
Speaker 2: lot of influences there. So for me, it's a matter
Speaker 2: of what am I focusing on? Where am I directing
Speaker 2: my attention? Which I mean, if you have a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff on and you you know, let's say you
Speaker 2: haven't slapped, you're fatigued, you are more susceptible to things
Speaker 2: like emotional contagion. But at the same time, what's also
Speaker 2: true is focusing single mindedly on your client. That conversation
Speaker 2: is in fact a form of mindfulness, and it's very
Speaker 2: helpful for you to step outside of yourself as much
Speaker 2: as you realistically can and focus single mindedly on what's
Speaker 2: important for the client in front of you in the moment.
Speaker 2: So I don't think positivity is something that you need
Speaker 2: to show up with every single session, But I think
Speaker 2: self awareness and tak us some time before the session,
Speaker 2: not jumping from one thing into another, just even a
Speaker 2: couple of minutes ago. Kurk Right, what's my intention here,
Speaker 2: where's my focus? Whatever mental reserve I have? How do
Speaker 2: I allocate that away from me and towards the client
Speaker 2: for a little while.
Speaker 1: I think if we like, as you're saying this, as
Speaker 1: we're saying this, I'm recognizing and respecting that most people
Speaker 1: who listen to this aren't coaches. So I think it's
Speaker 1: probably and that's that's not good or bad, that's just
Speaker 1: a situation.
Speaker 2: But also I.
Speaker 1: Would think the majority, more than fifty percent, may be
Speaker 1: way higher of our listeners are parents, and I think
Speaker 1: or as a parent, or as a partner, or as
Speaker 1: a boss for that matter, whatever, or a coach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how do I show up like I would think?
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't think.
Speaker 1: I respect that parenting is fucking infinitely harder than doing
Speaker 1: the job. Us three dumb asses do right, None of
Speaker 1: us to my knowledge, Bobby, unless there's something you want
Speaker 1: to tell differ and I right now. Although Tiff is
Speaker 1: a parent of sorts and you have been to and
Speaker 1: I have been for that matter, But yeah, like, just
Speaker 1: how do I be a mum or a dad, or
Speaker 1: how do I be a good friend, or how do
Speaker 1: I just be that person for that person and without
Speaker 1: denying what I'm going through all my feelings but not
Speaker 1: kind of let them be a victim of my not
Speaker 1: feeling good in the moment, Like, how do I be
Speaker 1: as consistent as I can for them?
Speaker 2: Either of you? I think sometimes part of that is
Speaker 2: being honest.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Brene Brown said something where she talked about in marriage
Speaker 2: that type of relationship. Sometimes one person shows up with
Speaker 2: a lot more energy reserves than another, and you hold
Speaker 2: that space like some person might be at like hundred percent,
Speaker 2: but your partner might be at sixty. And you know
Speaker 2: the Internet, she got a lot of flak for that.
Speaker 2: It's like, no, everybody, you have to show up one
Speaker 2: hundred percent all the time, be committed. And it's like,
Speaker 2: I think you're being dishonest and unfair to your partner
Speaker 2: because even if you're showing up one hundred percent all
Speaker 2: the time, which will to be fair, that's unlikely that
Speaker 2: you do. Your one hundred looks very different day to day.
Speaker 2: And sometimes, you know, just telling your partner, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: this is where I'm at and this is what I'm
Speaker 2: going through, I think that mitigates the intensity of those
Speaker 2: emotions in you. It's honest, it's authentic with your partner.
Speaker 2: I think there's also urgency and importance. You know, some
Speaker 2: some conversations that are critical are important, some are urgent.
Speaker 2: Some are a combination of the two. So if you're
Speaker 2: dealing with something that is highly important but it's not urgent,
Speaker 2: we don't have to have this right now. I think
Speaker 2: sometimes just say hey, you know, this is my bandwidth
Speaker 2: in the moment, and I know this is important to you,
Speaker 2: right and I really want to be present, you know it.
Speaker 2: Can we do this, you know tomorrow, because I don't
Speaker 2: want my stuff to get in the way now. Sometimes
Speaker 2: things are urgent and you can't really do that and
Speaker 2: then showing up as much as you possibly can. But
Speaker 2: I think it's that level of honesty with yourself and
Speaker 2: your honesty with the person you're speaking to. And by
Speaker 2: the way, this is coming from someone who hypocritically doesn't
Speaker 2: always practice that, because there's a difference between where I
Speaker 2: think I should be and where I actually am. And
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, I'm feeling like I'll scale from one
Speaker 2: to ten. I'm like a four, But okay, I'm going
Speaker 2: to do this right now because somebody else wants me
Speaker 2: to do this, and there's a place I think that's important.
Speaker 2: But sometimes like can I give Can I give an
Speaker 2: example of something that happened with me? And this this
Speaker 2: isn't like a personal relationship, but my first hands on
Speaker 2: practical coaching exam I ever took. This is going back
Speaker 2: a long time ago. I was ready, I was there
Speaker 2: at the table, I was anxious and I got on
Speaker 2: with instructor and she was in bits. This is someone
Speaker 2: who I've been in correspondence with, and she was she
Speaker 2: was you could tell she's she had been crying and
Speaker 2: something had really gone very very wrong in her marriage
Speaker 2: that morning. And she's like, I don't think I have
Speaker 2: I don't think I have the mental space to do this,
Speaker 2: and I know all the preparation that went into this.
Speaker 2: Can we reschedule? And one I remember feeling horrible for
Speaker 2: her because I know if I was on the other
Speaker 2: end of that call what that would have felt like,
Speaker 2: plus the stuff she was going through. But I also
Speaker 2: remember feeling quite grateful because I thought that was not
Speaker 2: something I was doing for her, that was also something
Speaker 2: simultaneously she was doing for me, because she could have
Speaker 2: powered through that, and that's something that could have affected,
Speaker 2: you know, my life and hers. So I think that
Speaker 2: level of openness and honest and awareness is important. Yeah,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to present a hypothetical, or I guess
Speaker 1: a question to you, tiff In. When we talk about
Speaker 1: negative states that we all get into emotional and psychological,
Speaker 1: I'm speaking about more which we know have a physical consequence.
Speaker 1: But what's the state that's most likely to derail.
Speaker 2: You in the moment.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure there's more than this, but what comes
Speaker 1: to mind for me is anxiety, self doubt, for our
Speaker 1: self loathing, overthinking. Maybe there's another one, but what's the
Speaker 1: one that for you has been the biggest struggle? So
Speaker 1: two part question that like, what what's going to fuck
Speaker 1: you up the most? I just I may or may
Speaker 1: not riff on this, but for me, I think it's unworthiness.
Speaker 1: I always feel not good enough, unworthy. What's the biggest
Speaker 1: one for you? And then how do you deal with that?
Speaker 1: You do about that?
Speaker 3: I feel like maybe overwhelm because I don't recognize and
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do with it. And I
Speaker 3: felt a bit recently, so I think overwhelmed can get
Speaker 3: put me into a state of a lot of those things,
Speaker 3: anxiety and reactivity and irritability and negativity and being quite
Speaker 3: cynical and a very different version of myself. So my
Speaker 3: outlook of everything shifts, and I actually can't in that moment.
Speaker 3: Definitely it's a struggle to pinpoint it. So I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't actually I can't recognize where this is coming from.
Speaker 3: It's going to take a bit of stepping back and
Speaker 3: getting self aware and looking at my environment and what's
Speaker 3: going on at the moment and try and piece it together.
Speaker 3: But yeah, just being that person in the middle of
Speaker 3: that is very hard and frustrating for me.
Speaker 1: Because I'm this is my guess, right, that state as
Speaker 1: an emotional state. You are emotional, but then you've got
Speaker 1: to try and understand it logically and as critically as
Speaker 1: a critical thinker, you know. And so you're in this
Speaker 1: state where you're actually your prefrontal cortext is not operating
Speaker 1: at an all time high, so you can't think real
Speaker 1: clearly because you're in overwhelm. Yeah. Yeah, that's maybe only
Speaker 1: a hindsight thing that where you can an hour or
Speaker 1: two later go, nah, I think it was this and
Speaker 1: this is probably the reason why.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And what's interesting is because I've always been very independent.
Speaker 3: I think I always it's easy to withdraw and just
Speaker 3: not be around people. So that's confronting as well. So
Speaker 3: now I have someone in my life that I am
Speaker 3: speaking to every day and I can't just I can't
Speaker 3: just withdraw, So I have to go, oh, I can't just.
Speaker 2: It's so good you said that.
Speaker 1: I was going to say I know I've thrown you
Speaker 1: under the bus hundred times with old mate we love him,
Speaker 1: good Scotti. You're a big fuck stick, Yeah, a big
Speaker 1: fuck stick. But yeah, I think for you because, like
Speaker 1: I've said a thousand times tips the girl who's got
Speaker 1: you know, the T shirt that says give me a
Speaker 1: hug and the baseball cap that says but fuck off. Though, right,
Speaker 1: so like you're you're also you're quite quite lovable, but
Speaker 1: a little bit fucking terrifying. And so even for me,
Speaker 1: who reads people pretty well, I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, eah, fuck, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, And I could be really.
Speaker 3: Aware of being quite cunty. There's no other word to
Speaker 3: describe how I feel when i'm that.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, can you say that again, because I
Speaker 1: think I spoke of you.
Speaker 3: I can be very aware when I'm being quite cunty
Speaker 3: and go and I'm like, oh, I don't want to
Speaker 3: be that person, but right now that's the person that
Speaker 3: is stuck inside me. And so I don't want to
Speaker 3: be around people and I don't think it's fair on them.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, it's a challenge.
Speaker 1: And right now my Migdala is running the show. So
Speaker 1: you can all fuck off get back to me in
Speaker 1: an hour or so, Bobby, Bobby, what about you in
Speaker 1: terms of like when something's going to come?
Speaker 2: I could be county as well. Why do you ask?
Speaker 1: Well, we know that, but specifically when something some emotional
Speaker 1: state or whatever kind of what's the thing most likely
Speaker 1: to take you.
Speaker 2: Out of the game temporarily? Wow, there's so many of them.
Speaker 2: I think overwhelm is definitely part of that. Overwhelm is
Speaker 2: big for me. The other thing is, I don't know
Speaker 2: how like whether it's self anger or disappointment. But when
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm about to fail on one, not
Speaker 2: fail because you know I'll feel disappointment, I'll get over it.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I find failure quite engaging, like I actually enjoy
Speaker 2: it because of what you learn in reflection. But if
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm about to fail another person, yes,
Speaker 2: that is so disruptive for me. And it can be
Speaker 2: over something small like my wife send me to the
Speaker 2: shop and say I bring back you know, salmon, and
Speaker 2: I'll bring back I don't know, like cigarettes, cigarettes. That
Speaker 2: would be funny, and I will feel this incredible sense
Speaker 2: of angst inside. Like for her, she'll be like, oh okay, yeah, whatever,
Speaker 2: for me, I will feel like self loathing and disgust,
Speaker 2: and I'll also feel fear as if like there's going
Speaker 2: to be severe repercussions. And I know where that stuff
Speaker 2: comes from. Yeah, and that's not the relationship I'm in
Speaker 2: in my marriage, but it's definitely the relationship I grew
Speaker 2: up in. So I think, upon reflection again, to TIFF's point,
Speaker 2: I can say, oh, I see what happened there. It's
Speaker 2: not that serious, and I can recalibrate, But in the moment,
Speaker 2: I don't really have access to my cognitive faculties. And
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm a complete state.
Speaker 1: So what is I think difficult sometimes is how do
Speaker 1: I say this? So right now, Mum and Dad are
Speaker 1: going through some stuff and Mums let's just say, you know,
Speaker 1: her memory and stuff's not working great, and there's you know,
Speaker 1: there's a few issues. But she will say something to
Speaker 1: me one day and then emphatically say the opposite the
Speaker 1: next day, right. And the thing that didn't worry her
Speaker 1: the day before is a cadashphe the next day, right.
Speaker 1: And so for me, the.
Speaker 2: Like there's two parts this.
Speaker 1: There's a real cognitive part, a critical thinking part, and
Speaker 1: there's an emotional part empathy, you know, and it's trying
Speaker 1: to trying to just be wherever they're at, you know,
Speaker 1: rather than going, mum, we spoke about this yesterday you said, yes,
Speaker 1: it's all good. And now I don't do that. I
Speaker 1: don't even try to do that. I just try to
Speaker 1: love her. I go, how do I be the most
Speaker 1: loving and how do we get through this conversation because
Speaker 1: all I don't.
Speaker 2: Firstly, I want to look after them physically, but I
Speaker 2: just this is weird.
Speaker 1: But for me, I just want to be for them
Speaker 1: emotionally and mentally, because I think that's the biggest trauma.
Speaker 1: The physiology. Yeah, sure things have fallen apart a bit,
Speaker 1: but you know, old people get to a point, and
Speaker 1: I mean this with love nearly all old people where
Speaker 1: just everything's overwhelming and terrifying and they can't remember shit,
Speaker 1: and you know, it just goes there. So for me,
Speaker 1: it's trying to, you know, theory of mind understand what's
Speaker 1: going on in their mind, but also empathy understand what's
Speaker 1: going on in their feelings and their emotions. So it's
Speaker 1: this kind of duality, this dual processing thing that's happening
Speaker 1: in real time. Like I'm trying to figure out what
Speaker 1: the fuck is she thinking? But literally what is she thinking?
Speaker 1: You know, like not critically, like curiously, what is she thinking?
Speaker 1: And why and why are we here today and yesterday
Speaker 1: we were there? And now emotionally what is her experience now?
Speaker 1: What is she feeling now? And for me, that's it's
Speaker 1: been a yeah, it's been a big step out of
Speaker 1: the theory of all of this that I've spent so
Speaker 1: long on and bits and pieces of you know, real
Speaker 1: life and reality, but now where it's like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: at the cold face of this and as an experience
Speaker 1: it is definitely not the same as the theory.
Speaker 3: What harps is it like to manage because you need
Speaker 3: to manage you and your overwhelmed in a moment where
Speaker 3: where then you put them at the forefront, Like that's
Speaker 3: a that's a bit dynamic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well as being you know, at first, everyone,
Speaker 1: I'm fine, but I'm pretty fucked at the moment.
Speaker 2: Like I'm tired.
Speaker 1: I'm tired, you know, I'm about had to delay my
Speaker 1: PhD stuff a little bit, but I just got by
Speaker 1: the way everyone. I've got feed This doesn't mean much
Speaker 1: to most people, but I've got feedback from two quite
Speaker 1: good academic journals that two of my papers are a potential,
Speaker 1: so they didn't get what's called a desk reject, which
Speaker 1: about ninety percent of papers get rejected straight up in
Speaker 1: good as you know, Bobby in good and probably TIF
Speaker 1: in good journals.
Speaker 2: So that's good.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so at the moment, I'm trying to finish
Speaker 1: this thing that I've been chipping away at forever, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying to obviously Mum and Dad in my priority
Speaker 1: like flat out, so nothing else, you know, if I
Speaker 1: had to move there and stop everything six months, that's
Speaker 1: what I do, right, So trying to navigate that, trying
Speaker 1: to manage my own energy, Like I'm going up to
Speaker 1: see them tomorrow and I'm literally going up to have lunch,
Speaker 1: you know, And so there's depending on the traffic, four
Speaker 1: to five hours driving to spend ninety minutes with them,
Speaker 1: you know, or two hours, and that's fine too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's the answer is I'm not great at it.
Speaker 1: The answer is I'm learning, and I just, at the
Speaker 1: risk is sounding cheesy, I'm trying to lead with love
Speaker 1: and see what happens, try not to have a breakdown.
Speaker 1: Yeah that probably sounded super sloppy, pologize everyone that's not
Speaker 1: enterstanding at all.
Speaker 3: I think it's important because I think it's I mean,
Speaker 3: you say it to me often a version of this
Speaker 3: is it like this is now when it matters, and
Speaker 3: it goes to show us in a world where there's
Speaker 3: solutions and information and data and how to do this
Speaker 3: and how to get better. And then there's the reality
Speaker 3: of it's like, it's always going to be hard, though,
Speaker 3: and we're going to be messy when we get in
Speaker 3: the middle of that, no matter how many PhDs and
Speaker 3: how much thegory we've on board about it.
Speaker 2: And also think about this.
Speaker 1: Let's say Bobby goes to me, Hey, Craig, I'm really
Speaker 1: dealing with I'm fucking I feel overwhelmed, and then later
Speaker 1: you say to me, Hey, Craig, I feel overwhelmed. I
Speaker 1: could have a conversation with Bobby that's really quite valuable
Speaker 1: and therapeutic and helpful to him. I have the same
Speaker 1: conversation with you. Totally misses the mark. So this is
Speaker 1: the thing. Even if we can recognize the state or
Speaker 1: the feeling or the emotion or the whatever, there is
Speaker 1: no single answer because Bobby's answer won't be yours and
Speaker 1: so on. Yeah, so how are you going in the
Speaker 1: background there, Bobby, You're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just just learning about all the stuff. You well,
Speaker 2: just just I think pensive overwhelm is about five minutes away,
Speaker 2: so we're good.
Speaker 1: See if you can put it off till about I
Speaker 1: don't know, one to thirty our times, six thirty your time.
Speaker 2: I'm about it. I'm putting it in your calendar six
Speaker 2: thirty one. Overwhelmed. That's that's how it's getting. We have
Speaker 2: to we have to time, budget time, allocate it for overwhelm. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Who's got time for overwhelmed nowadays?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Fuck it?
Speaker 1: Just yeah, just schedule it. Yeah, eight o'clock, June seven, breakdown.
Speaker 2: Yeap, Jack done, all right, Self care accomplished. Thanks, thanks hops.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just less and into what you're going
Speaker 2: through with your parents. And you know, my mom is
Speaker 2: not in a good place. She's in remission from cancer,
Speaker 2: but now she has a bunch of other things that
Speaker 2: are quite serious. And you know, hmm. Amy was going
Speaker 2: to come home with me two days ago, but she
Speaker 2: didn't because she has to stay out there because I
Speaker 2: have things that I have to be in person for
Speaker 2: out here. So now she's in Brooklyn, and it's just
Speaker 2: interesting do it Where you said do things with love,
Speaker 2: I think that's all you can do. Sometimes it's like,
Speaker 2: how do I do this with love? Because I feel
Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of conflict and guilty with my mom
Speaker 2: because she's she's old and she really needs help and
Speaker 2: we're making sacrifices to help her and do whatever we
Speaker 2: can to have Amy there, me here, but she there's
Speaker 2: a lot of resentment that I feel I have because
Speaker 2: I mean, she was not a great mother. That's that's
Speaker 2: putting it mildly. Growing up, Yes, and now that you're
Speaker 2: seeing cognitive decline, there are certain attributes that she can't
Speaker 2: mask as well, and they're coming out and it's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: there you are, I remember you. Like, So she has
Speaker 2: spent the past I don't know, oof the past fifteen
Speaker 2: years trying to be very sweet and you know, like
Speaker 2: make amends for everything, and that's been a that's that's
Speaker 2: been a winding road. Sometimes it's been better than others.
Speaker 2: But now now there's parts of her peeking out through
Speaker 2: the surface, and it's hard for me to deal with it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that is tough. Without getting into it, and it's like, wow,
Speaker 2: that's that's not a nice person coming out, and like,
Speaker 2: what do you do? Because sometimes I get quite angry.
Speaker 2: It's like, just you just got to take a moment,
Speaker 2: you got to recalibrate, and you got to do this
Speaker 2: with love. Like it's okay to feel what you're feeling.
Speaker 2: First of all. I think trying to trying to repress
Speaker 2: it causes it to come out in ugli or dysfunctional ways.
Speaker 2: But take it, own it and move forward with love. Anyway.
Speaker 2: My wife, like Amy, is amazing at that she's taking
Speaker 2: care of another person who's getting quite on along in
Speaker 2: years and she's able to say, Okay, this person is
Speaker 2: who they are, But how do I show up lovingly? Anyway?
Speaker 2: I think that is that is a beautiful attribute. And
Speaker 2: sometimes people you can do.
Speaker 1: I think that what you're doing is incredibly hard, and
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes times, God bless them old people. And
Speaker 1: I mean that respectfully everyone. I mean old. I mean
Speaker 1: eighty My parents are eighty six, right, eighty seven this year,
Speaker 1: And some of the stuff that comes out at times
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you know, but my inner voice goes, hey,
Speaker 1: most of your life has been in the ballpark of
Speaker 1: fucking amazing, right, so shut up. Secondly, you talk about
Speaker 1: all this shit all the time, Well, now there's the
Speaker 1: opportunity for you to do the shit, to be the shit.
Speaker 1: Like otherwise, I'm just a voice in the wind that's
Speaker 1: talking bullshit. And as I say to people all the time,
Speaker 1: what I care about most is what you're doing when
Speaker 1: no one's looking or giving you applause or and there's
Speaker 1: just that where you go, Yeah, I can could I
Speaker 1: in some instances find a reason to feel sorry for
Speaker 1: myself if I want it.
Speaker 2: What does that help me?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Does that help them?
Speaker 1: No? Does it change the situation? No?
Speaker 2: Does it produce a good outcome?
Speaker 1: No? All right, so let's not do that.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Not do it one because it's dumb, and two because
Speaker 1: you don't want to be that person and you want to,
Speaker 1: as we said, leave with love. So yeah, dude, I
Speaker 1: feel for you, and I you know, like this is weird,
Speaker 1: but you know, since we met all those years ago,
Speaker 1: you've always kind of been that little sometimes lost brother
Speaker 1: where you know, I know how uh disconnected you can
Speaker 1: feel from people, you know, because you're you're not typical.
Speaker 1: You're not typical, You're not the same. I don't I
Speaker 1: know fucking thousands of people. I don't know one person
Speaker 1: like you. I don't know one person who's I go, oh,
Speaker 1: this person really reminds me of Bobby. And I know
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of you know, I mean, we're
Speaker 1: just here, so mus well, stay here. But there's you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pain in you. And I know
Speaker 1: that you mask that. I see that, I see you
Speaker 1: just you know, you get to a point of a
Speaker 1: conversation where you're like, right, let's do a left turn
Speaker 1: and talk about Dix or whatever it is. You know
Speaker 1: me too, you know where you go, fuck, let's do
Speaker 1: something funny. Well, that's true, that's more me. Let's be honest.
Speaker 2: That's me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're I'm the fucking big brother with
Speaker 1: no morals. But yeah, you know, it's just that we
Speaker 1: just cope the way that we cope. Sometimes it's deflection,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's humor. Sometimes it's pointing a finger back and
Speaker 1: going nah, fuck you, which is probably not a good recommendation,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think sometimes on this show, you know,
Speaker 1: it's all well and good to go. Well, in this situation,
Speaker 1: we should probably try a bit of this and sprinkle
Speaker 1: a bit of that on and you know, here's four
Speaker 1: things you can try. Well maybe maybe sometimes though I
Speaker 1: think you're just The thing is to just sit in
Speaker 1: the middle of the shit and feel what you feel
Speaker 1: and see what comes up, and see what you can
Speaker 1: figure out, rather than what any of us genie I
Speaker 1: are thrown at you, because I think that's as cliche
Speaker 1: as it sounds. I think experiences and interactions and life
Speaker 1: is the best classroom. Like just going through a shit
Speaker 1: is where you learn, you know. I don't think you
Speaker 1: can learn about grief without going through grief. You know,
Speaker 1: you just learn the theory of grief. Go through grief.
Speaker 2: Motherfucker. That is different.
Speaker 1: That is so far from those seven points I read
Speaker 1: in that book, those five stages of grief.
Speaker 2: Those this the.
Speaker 1: Fuck and hell this is nothing like because one is
Speaker 1: just a kind of a theoretical framework, which theoretical frameworks
Speaker 1: have their place. But I cannot explain the shit that
Speaker 1: I'm feeling. So you and your theories fuck off, you know,
Speaker 1: and you just kind of work through it a bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So a tip, do you not because you were going
Speaker 1: to map maybe have to jump out? Are you still good?
Speaker 3: I do no longer need to.
Speaker 1: Oh, perfect right, well say something mind blowingly wise, were you?
Speaker 1: Because Bobby and I haven't fucking silk over.
Speaker 3: Here, just as you've been talking a mull over that
Speaker 3: idea around what we how we approach or what we
Speaker 3: do with the recognizing the pain or the herd and
Speaker 3: feel like that idea of how do you feel what
Speaker 3: you feel without and not make it bigger, but allow
Speaker 3: it to be there and not suppress it and do
Speaker 3: something healthy with it. Because because I was talking to
Speaker 3: a guest earlier this week and around that concept of
Speaker 3: when we don't express things, When we don't don't express
Speaker 3: our feelings or what's inside and we suppress that, it's toxic,
Speaker 3: we get sick. It's like that if there's dark emotions there,
Speaker 3: if we have hurt and pain, like I kept a
Speaker 3: secret for thirty years and didn't speak up. So I'm
Speaker 3: really passionate about it. But in saying that is also
Speaker 3: a way to not hold it and make it heavy
Speaker 3: and to not project it onto other people. So as
Speaker 3: you talk about all of this, I'm just I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that works for us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I also think about you know, when you're talking
Speaker 4: to someone and they're going through something, and you recognize
Speaker 4: the thing that they're going through in the moment mentally
Speaker 4: and emotionally, that it isn't real objectively, it is subjectively
Speaker 4: the experience is real for them.
Speaker 1: Like I watch my mum take a zero out of
Speaker 1: ten event or issue and it becomes a ten out
Speaker 1: of ten problem. But from the outside looking in, I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone else would think that, but Mum does
Speaker 1: in the moment. And so when I was young and dumber,
Speaker 1: I would try to go, Mum, you just like you're
Speaker 1: just creating something out of nothing, There is no issue,
Speaker 1: you just invent Well. Not surprisingly, that didn't fucking help,
Speaker 1: But that didn't give her like some light bulb moment
Speaker 1: of clarity and self awareness, right, So then I had
Speaker 1: to learn to acknowledge what was actually going on, but
Speaker 1: respect what was going on for mum. And what was
Speaker 1: going on for Mum was this is a major problem,
Speaker 1: and with this major problem comes anxiety and fear. And
Speaker 1: so I'm respecting the emotional state and the feeling and
Speaker 1: the personal reality that she is inhabiting, and I'm speaking
Speaker 1: to that person. I'm not speaking to the external issue.
Speaker 1: Because if you look through the lens of empathy, and
Speaker 1: you know what they call in psychology self other awareness.
Speaker 1: You have this different experience versus Oh, Craig, the fucking
Speaker 1: fixes here, Hey, Greg, the fix a fuck off? Get
Speaker 1: in the car. You know we don't need that guy.
Speaker 1: You with me, Bobby.
Speaker 2: Totally. I feel like this is one of the biggest
Speaker 2: problems in relationships, and it's a massive cause of suffering
Speaker 2: for others and ourselves. Is the inability to see past
Speaker 2: our own thought processes, biases, and where we are in
Speaker 2: the present moment and just sit with someone not based
Speaker 2: on fixing their situation, but what is it like to
Speaker 2: be that person in the moment. I just want to
Speaker 2: point something out because I was thinking about this in
Speaker 2: the call today. I was thinking about you on my
Speaker 2: way to an event because I was listening to your
Speaker 2: show with Cam and I've witnessed vicariously on a few
Speaker 2: of your shows as of late, you challenge your own
Speaker 2: perspective and thought process and kind of not moving beyond it,
Speaker 2: still holding it, but also considering what else might be
Speaker 2: true and meeting your guests there, and I thought, wow,
Speaker 2: you know, it's amazing to see like Harps like on
Speaker 2: a show in real time growing because you were doing
Speaker 2: it with Cam And I'm not going to get into
Speaker 2: where I how, but I've heard you do that on
Speaker 2: a couple of other shows I've experienced to do that
Speaker 2: with me, and I'm thinking, I just want to point
Speaker 2: that out because I don't know if you realize it
Speaker 2: or you're noticing this, but I am seeing you as
Speaker 2: a person like my dear friend growing Yeah, even at
Speaker 2: your advanced stage. Ha ha, there it is, there, it is.
Speaker 1: Fuck, thank god you did that. I was getting so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Oh relief, But this is what I think, Like, you
Speaker 1: know how people have to be right some people, and
Speaker 1: sometimes I've been that that people. And when I'm unemotional
Speaker 1: as I can be, and I'm as objective as I
Speaker 1: can be and I'm as self aware as I can be,
Speaker 1: I look.
Speaker 2: Back over the last say forty years of.
Speaker 1: Grown upness, and I go, how many times have you
Speaker 1: made a mistake or how many times have you got
Speaker 1: something wrong? I'd say, oh, fuck, I really don't know,
Speaker 1: but like very small to very big, probably multiple times
Speaker 1: a day. Well let's go, well that's five, let's go
Speaker 1: forty years. Let's go two hundred times, three hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty five days. You know, whatever, it's thousands or tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of times, and I just go, well, of
Speaker 1: course I'm still getting things wrong, probably at the same
Speaker 1: rate or maybe higher. And so I think the having
Speaker 1: enough awareness and humility and courage, which I do not
Speaker 1: always have, but to be able to go this is
Speaker 1: what I really fucking think. But I could be wrong,
Speaker 1: because I've been wrong many times. It's like you and
Speaker 1: I grew up in a pretty religious paradigm part of
Speaker 1: our lives anyway, and so we had certain beliefs in
Speaker 1: data DA and I still have certain beliefs. But is
Speaker 1: there a chance I'm wrong? Of course about some of it,
Speaker 1: all of it, a bit of it, of course. So
Speaker 1: my faith or my belief doesn't have to be wired
Speaker 1: into certainty or knowledge. It's like, well, of course there's
Speaker 1: you know, So I think that I actually think being
Speaker 1: okay with being wrong is just liberating.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I think it makes life so much easier for you,
Speaker 2: well by you, I mean us, Yes, yes, it's strength
Speaker 2: things relationships, and I think I believe it expands your
Speaker 2: capacity for thought because you don't have to let go
Speaker 2: of your point of view in order to embrace somebody
Speaker 2: else's point of view and know that both might be
Speaker 2: wrong correct somewhere in between, or it doesn't matter because
Speaker 2: that is their reality, and it is their reality infringing
Speaker 2: upon their life in a negative way or anybody else's.
Speaker 2: Is it depriving them from a fundamental right? If the
Speaker 2: answer is no, you're just talking about differences in perspective.
Speaker 2: And if everybody has the same perspective, the vast majority
Speaker 2: of us are redundant, aren't we. So I think it's
Speaker 2: like in NLP they call it different positions like first, second, third,
Speaker 2: and fourth. I think that's a powerful mental exercise where, Okay,
Speaker 2: what is my point of view? Because if I'm going
Speaker 2: to be with you, I have to be anchored with me.
Speaker 2: What do I believe? Okay, now here's my point of view.
Speaker 2: How can I step over to your side of the
Speaker 2: table and see the world through your eyes as much
Speaker 2: as possible? So let me take the perspective of Craig.
Speaker 2: And then third position would be Tiffany, if I was
Speaker 2: sitting at this table and I was observing this conversation,
Speaker 2: what would be my point of view there? And then
Speaker 2: stepping even back one level beyond that, universally, what could
Speaker 2: be interpreted from this and I think when you go
Speaker 2: through those different dvantage points, One, it mitigates a lot
Speaker 2: of anxiety and reactivity too, it connects you empathy, and three,
Speaker 2: I think it expands your capacity for thought and adaptability,
Speaker 2: which is a quintessential component of resilience. Yeah, love it,
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to go to YouTube. I feel
Speaker 1: like a lot of times we want to be right
Speaker 1: because the thing that we believe is a form of
Speaker 1: identity for us. It's like part of our identity is
Speaker 1: tied into you know, like I used to anyway, I
Speaker 1: won't bang on about me, but do you feel like
Speaker 1: that ever? Like, oh, I'm this person or people see
Speaker 1: me as that person, so I've got to be that.
Speaker 1: And also I want to be right because I want
Speaker 1: people to think I'm smart. And you know, it's like
Speaker 1: or you know, when people talk about who I am.
Speaker 1: I am a Christian, I am a vegetarian, I am
Speaker 1: a tennis player, I am a whatever, I'm a Manchester
Speaker 1: United supporter, I am like we talk about something that
Speaker 1: isn't actually us and we make an im statement before it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I think it's really easy to get trapped into
Speaker 1: that thing if you don't want to, especially if you
Speaker 1: believe something for twenty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think just one an answer and certainty.
Speaker 3: And it's how we on one hand, we sit here
Speaker 3: and we always saying everyone's different. My answer is not
Speaker 3: your answer. Everyone needs something different. But then there's the
Speaker 3: other part of us that goes, this is what I've learned,
Speaker 3: and this is how it is, and this is what
Speaker 3: I believe. And we have to remember that you're holding
Speaker 3: those two things and you're speaking to a world of
Speaker 3: people that have that are that are different. So that
Speaker 3: thing we believe and we said we have to realize
Speaker 3: is also extremely flawed for a lot of people. Yes, yes,
Speaker 3: and it's hard.
Speaker 1: Well, I've taught things to groups, like to audiences where
Speaker 1: now I'm like so embarrassed that I taught that. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I've said things to a thousand people in a room
Speaker 1: that bullshit, and now I like, oh fuck, I hope
Speaker 1: nobody remembers that day.
Speaker 2: It was a while ago. I hope they don't remember that.
Speaker 1: I said that, because I know I was actually I
Speaker 1: thought I was right talking about whatever it was, and
Speaker 1: now I know I wasn't right, like factually scientifically, like
Speaker 1: you know, or I wasn't totally right. Is there anything
Speaker 1: that you used to teach Bobby or talk about with
Speaker 1: a level of certainty that you now go? What the fuck?
Speaker 2: Was I thinking? Yeah, nearly eighty percent of what I
Speaker 2: used to teach, because that's the key word there, right.
Speaker 2: It's not that I believe this and I thought it
Speaker 2: was useful and I conveyed it. It's I taught that
Speaker 2: with so much certainty because I strongly believed this is
Speaker 2: not how I am, this is how the world is. Wow.
Speaker 2: And that's a major blind spot. And I think what
Speaker 2: Tiff was talking about earlier with reflecting after the fact
Speaker 2: on emotional states and responses is critical because when we
Speaker 2: don't do that, when we don't acknowledge an emotion, it
Speaker 2: comes out in so much uglier ways. For me, it
Speaker 2: was certainty and judgment about how people should live when
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties, like about how people should work,
Speaker 2: which was pretty much all the time, and think about
Speaker 2: nothing else because everything else is a feud to waste
Speaker 2: of time or I had a guest on well, I
Speaker 2: guess this is our show, so this show years back.
Speaker 2: I forgot his name, and he pointed out how we
Speaker 2: were having a similar conversation, how one of my behaviors
Speaker 2: is highly narcissistic. Now, he did not say that I
Speaker 2: am a narcissist. He just said that my behavior patterns
Speaker 2: were narcissistic. And it comes down to I think the
Speaker 2: example was if I say I'm going to clean out
Speaker 2: the dishwasher and then Amy comes home and I forgot
Speaker 2: to clean out the dishwasher. Yes, I mentioned earlier that
Speaker 2: one of the emotional states that is problematic for me
Speaker 2: is when I feel I have failed someone. And what
Speaker 2: I would do in that funny story about work not
Speaker 2: too funny, what I would do is I would get
Speaker 2: into oh my god, I'm horrible. I would just completely
Speaker 2: come undone and self loath. And he's like, okay, So
Speaker 2: now your wife not only has to deal with the
Speaker 2: fact that after a long day and you were supposed
Speaker 2: to do something, you broke a promise. Not intentionally, but
Speaker 2: you broke a promise. She also now has to deal
Speaker 2: with your emotions about it. So now it's all about you.
Speaker 2: That's that's narcissistic behavior. You might feel horrible and communicate
Speaker 2: that you feel horrible. What she really needs is, yes,
Speaker 2: I drop the ball on that, And this is how
Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure this doesn't happen again, because
Speaker 2: you've got a lot of shit on and when you
Speaker 2: asked me to clear out the dishwasher and I agree
Speaker 2: to it, you probably should have the confidence that it's done.
Speaker 2: So the other day at work, real fast this was
Speaker 2: not great. So I was trying, I want to remember
Speaker 2: an acronym of an event that I got accepted to
Speaker 2: speak at, and I'm communicating with one of my partners
Speaker 2: and I forgot the name, and I was like, she
Speaker 2: is going to be so disappointed in me. She's not
Speaker 2: going to know who I'm talking about. And she's like,
Speaker 2: WHOA what is this? I don't remember? And thinking about
Speaker 2: her disappointment in me forgetting the acronym of the organization,
Speaker 2: I start like trying to copy and paste the acceptance
Speaker 2: letter of the signature, and as I'm doing that, I'm
Speaker 2: struggling to copy and paste and I didn't even realize
Speaker 2: I said this. It must have been a Tourette's moment,
Speaker 2: but I was like, you are so stupid, and I
Speaker 2: didn't realize I had my voice dictation button on. So
Speaker 2: the message I sent to my colleague was, hey, I
Speaker 2: got accepted for both of these submissions. You are so stupid. Hey,
Speaker 2: oh that is great. That is great. Yeah, I hope
Speaker 2: you going through hell right now. Not if you're in HR.
Speaker 2: It's not great now because it was obvious, there was
Speaker 2: no context why I would say that. But she was like,
Speaker 2: explain yourself, what do you mean I'm so stupid? I
Speaker 2: was like, what what do you mean? You're stupid? And
Speaker 2: I looked and I realized voice dictation was on. Now
Speaker 2: I wasn't talking to her, I was talking to me,
Speaker 2: and I didn't even realize I said that all because
Speaker 2: of that pattern, Like I should know this acronym. It's
Speaker 2: a stupid little thing. But I blew it up in
Speaker 2: my mind. And then I said something really unkind to myself,
Speaker 2: sent it over, which she for a second could have
Speaker 2: interpreted as aimed at her. It's extremely destructive to not
Speaker 2: deal with your emotions and your triggers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wow, dude, that is But I had done
Speaker 1: do that to yourself, done to that either. You know,
Speaker 1: you're a little battler, but you're right, you're a little
Speaker 1: ussy batla.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, I didn't realize I did it.
Speaker 2: It's not like I consciously said it. Mus it's it's kind.
Speaker 2: I don't want to blame it on Touret's but it
Speaker 2: was like a terrest moment. I had no idea that
Speaker 2: I ever uttered that. Even after the fact, no clue.
Speaker 2: When I looked at the message, I was astonished. I
Speaker 2: was like, really, I said that about myself in that
Speaker 2: moment and sent that over. Actually, that's not great.
Speaker 1: I so want you to have a live on the
Speaker 1: stage Turett's moment, which is very unfair of me. But fuck,
Speaker 1: ID love.
Speaker 2: That all that that that'll never happen because stage is
Speaker 2: that environment is the most conducive to controlling your terrest's symptoms.
Speaker 2: You're putting out a ton of physical energy with complete
Speaker 2: intense mental focus. That is the last place I would
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: There's this kid must have made and it was years ago. Now,
Speaker 1: who was on Australian Idol. Do you know a singer
Speaker 1: called Delta Gudrum Bobby now okay, so very well known
Speaker 1: Australian singer, great singer, bye bah blah. Anyway, she was
Speaker 1: one of the judges and this young dude had all
Speaker 1: kinds of fucking savage ticks and Tourette's and busy. You know,
Speaker 1: it's busy, and then when he sang, it all went
Speaker 1: away and he could sing like an angel. So anyway, huh,
Speaker 1: so good, so good. So he sings and he's fucking amazing,
Speaker 1: and Delta comes up to give him a hug, and
Speaker 1: Delta's giving him a hug, and he goes on.
Speaker 4: National television Delta's Hot, Delta's Hot.
Speaker 1: And it was just the best. It was the best
Speaker 1: because he was like seventeen or something, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: she was probably twenty eight and gorgeous, and it was
Speaker 1: just my go that's the best thing ever. And like
Speaker 1: people Jersey, she took it great. She was great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody loved it. Everybody knew what was going on.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like, oh my god, but also
Speaker 1: hilarious and also sweet. So I wonder what that little
Speaker 1: dude's name is and where is that now?
Speaker 2: To you?
Speaker 1: If any final thoughts or wisdom that you want to
Speaker 1: impart with us to bullfheads or the non buffheads in
Speaker 1: our audience.
Speaker 3: Nothing here, harps. I might just drop into Overwhelm a
Speaker 3: few minutes before Bobby.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, okay, Bobby's got seven minutes, seven minutes away,
Speaker 1: seven minutes away from overwhelmed, so enjoy that. Maybe get
Speaker 1: yourself a drink.
Speaker 2: Minutes. Sex is going to be rough, I know what's common.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Bobby's podcast is called the Self Help Antidote.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Tis podcast is called Roll with the Punches.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Bobby can be found on LinkedIn, and he has a
Speaker 1: website called is it Robert Capuccio dot com?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Coincidentally enough, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Couldn't remember if it was fucking pony Boy or Robert.
Speaker 1: I think that's us, Tiff, that I forget anything for you.
Speaker 1: Tiff enjoys water sports and meeting people, but not anymore
Speaker 1: because she's got the fucking she's got the goat, she's
Speaker 1: got the fucking cooda, she's got the don't worry about that.
Speaker 1: She's got the number one fucking boy in town, much
Speaker 1: to everyone's surprise, and that, oh support something so funny
Speaker 1: to say nine of my audience would be like, you're
Speaker 1: the best ten percent of I'm going to send you
Speaker 1: a fucking email. I can't. I can't. I'll tell you off, heir,
Speaker 1: But I know listeners, if we didn't have, like you know,
Speaker 1: all those people who send me emails that I totally deserve.
Speaker 1: By the way, I could tell you, but I can't.
Speaker 2: How should have a blooper's link so you could share
Speaker 2: it with the audience, And then, because it's a blooper's link,
Speaker 2: anyone that's offended, but they click on it anyway, they've
Speaker 2: only got themselves to blame.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and fuck you?
Speaker 2: Yeah good?
Speaker 1: All right? What are they both next? No? And see
Speaker 1: you both next time.