WEBVTT - Special edition: 2024 Top Advisers list 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.640 Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.960 James Kirby, Wealth editor at the Australia. Welcome aboard everybody. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.840 It's one of my favorite shows of the year. It's 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:27.520 the release of the top financial Advisor's List, which we've 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.120 been doing every year a modest total of fifty advisors. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.479 It is now expanded this year this morning out this 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.040 morning to one hundred and fifty advisors, the top one 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.199 hundred and fifty advisors in the market, and it's quite 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.760 the enterprise. It's produced in conjunction with the Baron's Investment 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:49.320 magazine of New York and actually they do all the calculations, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.960 so all I have to do in tandem with the 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.160 Deal editor of the Deal magazine, which is where you'll 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.320 find the list, or you can find it online. Helen 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.639 Trinker puts it all together. And I know a lot 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.800 of people on the list at this stage, and some 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.520 of them of course have been on the Money Puzzle. 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.360 So I want to actually today give you a really 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.520 good guide about financial advice, about how it works, how 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.559 to find it, and the landscaper within it. Just before 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.039 I do one thing I want to mention lots of 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:25.440 response to the episode about big super funds behaving badly, 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.400 and part of that was triggered by your own correspondence 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:34.600 with me where you had issues about being having trouble 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.360 with big super funds and how they dealt with you. 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.800 If you have let us know the money puzzle at 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:44.839 the Australian dot com dot au. Send in those emails. 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:46.840 I'd like to see them and we can actually we 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.000 can get a response much faster than you can get 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.200 a response. Let's put it that way. Okay, Now to 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.400 join me today, I have an advisor who's actually been 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.040 one of the handful of advisors who's been on this 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.760 Top Advice's list since the day we launched in two seventeen. 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.080 His name is Will Hamilton. He is at Hamilton Wealth Partners, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:09.600 regular on the show How are You Will? 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.520 Very well, thank you, James, and thanks for having me. 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.000 Good to have you, Good to have you. So every 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.200 year since two seventeen, feeling the pressure are you? 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.919 It's an honor to be honest, to be honest, and 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.280 that these things are a team effort. You We've got 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:27.000 a great team here. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.320 So yeah, well, I tell you what. Putting out a 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.920 list of one hundred and fifty advisors. Is the team effort, 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:37.519 especially these days when you have print and digital and 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.520 podcasts and the joint venture within New York Publication. I 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.120 can tell you it's no easy task, and I'm happy 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.919 to say it seems to be out there all bells 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.320 ringing today, So that was really good. There's a couple 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.040 of things I wanted to talk about, and the listeners 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:56.359 will be coming in at various angles. Some of them 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.839 will no advice all to well. Some of them might 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.280 have started. If I go on if I know nothing, 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.040 and I go on to Google, which is what most 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.520 people do to start anything, and they say, how do 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.840 I find a financial advisor? The first thing I'm going 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.600 to get is five or six people selling services. That's 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.679 the first thing I'm going to see, okay, because they're sponsored. 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.640 And then I'm going to see various sites. But I 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.000 think generally at the very start, people should, perhaps if 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.079 you know nothing at all, start with money Smart, which 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.079 is often where people should start. The the ASSEIC website. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.040 That is just to check. That's just to check whether 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.520 the advisor that your friend at the barbecue said was great, 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.680 whether they're actually registered, and whether there are any whether 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.720 they basically tick the elementary boxes and then I would 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.600 hope the people on the show would be a bit 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.680 more advanced than that, and perhaps for a start they 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.240 could look at this list. There's one hundred and fifty 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.760 names there, and that is quite a list I from 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.840 all around the nation now. But one thing that struck 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:58.280 me will like almost straight away was the whole game 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.520 is moving up market. That financial advice. I mean, in 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.680 a way, it would always be an up market activity, 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.920 but in Australia because it costs so much to do it. 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.960 I saw a survey during the week that said fifty 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.400 percent fifty percent of the fee for your financial advices 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.919 administration costs. So it seems like the whole thing is 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.440 moving up market. But it seems that it's seriously moving 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.440 up market now, like it really is starting to be. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.360 The companies that are on the list, even the brands 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.240 that are on the list, if they have multiple arms, 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.800 it's the up market arm of their of their advice 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:37.799 activity that gets the ratings. Basically, so is that what's happening. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.080 Look that I'm not going to mention names, but some 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.839 of the larger firms have pushed right up to a 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.640 minimum five million dollars and yeah, that's a commercial call 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.360 on their part. It's in many cases that decision has 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.600 been made in Hong Kong or New York or something 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.800 like that. And yeah, they're good firms, but that's yeah, 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.560 so when you talk about it, it's a gone up marker. Yes, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.200 some of those firms have done that. We are wholesale only, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.039 so we have to meet these sophisticated and invest the tests. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.200 With any client, we will take less, but we also 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.880 have a minimum that we think is important that we 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.359 can grow it to that. Now that's a commercial decision 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.919 as well, and you need to look at the overall 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.960 revenue you can bring in and the costs to service 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:26.080 that client. But you are right, we don't like to 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.560 say no to any client, and if we can't service them, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.239 we like to introduce and introduce them to a firm 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.920 that can look after them. And we've been working very 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:36.920 closely with a firm for about a decade, but they've 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:41.000 even moved up. Yes, so we've sort of had to 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.640 go and source another firm in the retail space where 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.640 they can look after retail clients and some of those 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.800 smaller ones. Because it's important, as you said, go and 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.640 Google and they then send send something through your website, 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:55.160 but we want to make sure that we can point 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.040 them in the right direction, even if we're not right 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:57.400 for them. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.839 And I see that there's variations around this, but in 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.719 terms of what you might expect to pay ongoing annually 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.359 for financial advice, we're looking at something in the order 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.159 of four and a half to five and a half 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.279 thousand a year on average. Now that's a lot. You 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.440 want to be making lots of money basically for that. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.400 So one thing I wanted to just put to you 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.800 will before we talk about the landscape out there for 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.880 top advisors or for very good advisors for listeners who 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.640 just want to get started. It seems to me there 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.279 was two sort of promises about if we take it 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.280 that the whole financial advice market has moved up upscale 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.080 to the upper end of the mass affluent. And you 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.360 mentioned how your wholesale and a number on the list 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.000 are wholesale, but the majority aren't. By the way, for 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.800 what it's worth, folks, the majority are not wholesale only. 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.280 But by that you must be a sophisticated investor. You 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.279 must have two point five million in net assets. But 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.839 the promise for everyday investors are start investors. Was that 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:02.680 there was going to be sort of two things that 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.679 might save the day. One was digital advice, Digiti advice, 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.119 and the other was that the big super funds would 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.040 come in and offer advice of a type. Now on 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:17.040 the digit advice side really never came to pass. It 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.320 certainly didn't come to pass in our market in any way. 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.240 I know the stock spot which has been has a 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:27.200 course now owned by the big Murray Korean fund and 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.840 they are Digiti advice specialists. But it didn't really get 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.680 It didn't really take off, did it. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.360 Look that's a really good point. I was at the 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.960 future Proof conference in Los Angeles a few months ago 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.240 and they had this panel of female advisors actually and 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:48.800 talking to them look back five years and what was 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.280 being pushed five years ago versus you know what has 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.760 and what hasn't taken off? And they said there were 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.680 two things. One was ESG yeah, I know this is 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.560 in America. And the second one was exactly that online 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.280 b it Digiti advice, be it online platforms for investing. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:12.040 Low cost, low touch financial advice. So it's come through 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.040 a little bit, but it hasn't come through on a 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.880 sort of mass fashion that was expected, and the other 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:22.320 part was the big superannuation funds. Now the big superannuation funds, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.680 their efforts to enter financial advice you might say, on 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:31.040 their terms has stoled in Parliament. And the big issue 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.280 is that they want, as they always want, they want 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.440 to pool everything and so that you'll pay an advice fee, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.959 but it won't really reflect how much advice you have 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.240 or how much you have in the bank or in 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.800 the fund. This has been blocked if you like, by 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:50.960 other parties in Parliament because it's not transparent. And the 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.000 issue in big super as we know is the lack 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.480 of transparency is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. And 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.400 their timing is pretty bad to try and push this 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.800 because we've just had a flurry of scandals basically in 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.280 big super often linked with the fact that people couldn't 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.360 see how their funds were going, couldn't get payments in 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:15.800 the timeframe they expected, or even issues around on listed valuations. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.960 So we're talking about Sebus here, we're talking about Hester here. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.000 But but what I want to ask you is do 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.679 you think that will ever come to pass that the 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.000 big super funds will if you like, feel the vacuum 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.000 at the starter market. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.000 They want to, and that because they're worried about when 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:37.360 people going through retirement mode and that's where their leakage is, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:41.199 so that they gather funds in accumulation and lose funds 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.280 in retirement phase, and so they definitely want to. It's 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:49.960 down Outlook, this minister's was going to fix the advice mess. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.240 I think his words, Well, it's still a mess. It's 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.520 fifteen five hundred advisors. There is a shortage of advisors 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:01.040 in Australia and there is no what I think, resolution 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.120 out there at the moment. Will they be able to 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:08.200 give impartial advice? No, is the answer. If you talk 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.719 to SeaBus about keeping your money in SeaBus, and that's 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.280 not impartial advice. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.320 To what you're saying. If you said to the big fund, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.520 you know, I'd like to get into investment property and 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.000 buy something they are not going to encourage, or you 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.800 would think because the money would live the fund, it's 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:32.160 very impartially. Yeah. Yeah, So with impartial advice, with independent advice, 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.160 and I'm not asking you to justify it. I'm asking you, 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.960 as a player in the industry to justify it. The 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:43.040 realistic figure of four to five thousand a year. How 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.280 does a good advisor justify that to the investor. 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.840 The amount of work that's required to run a small 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.960 portfolio probably why we don't do that. It's substantial. It 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.719 doesn't matter if you're looking after a client. Is it's 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.680 the small all the end or the bigger end on 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.480 a relative basis, The amount of work that doesn't justify 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:10.959 that increase. And so therefore, unfortunately it might sound a 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.319 lot to people four and a half to five thousand dollars. 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.839 I doubt that the firm is making much money out 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.400 of that, given what they've got to do with respect 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:23.680 to regulation compliance. And then when I say regulation, therese 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.000 are documents that have to be prepared and sent to 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:31.800 the client to meet the regulations reviews running the portfolio. 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.400 I think the point you made there is really interesting. 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.280 I'd never really thought about that. If someone comes in 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.319 the door with twenty two investments and their whole portfolio 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.360 is worth a million, and someone else comes in with 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.480 twenty two investments and the whole portfolio is worth ten million, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:47.560 the amount of work isn't much different. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:47.800 Is that? 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:48.839 The point you're making. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.600 It naturally is more, But it's not that it's not 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:53.000 on it. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:57.439 It's not ten times more. Yeah, yeah, I see, I see, yeah, Okay, 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.600 all right, But one other thing I want to explain 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.320 to people that are listening and are keen about getting advice. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.760 And by the way, folks, I would always say this 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:10.880 good advice is terrific. Pay for it. I have no 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.199 problem paying for advice. I have no problem paying fees 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.400 for fund managers as on the assumption that they make 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:24.760 you money. If someone saves you anything more than their fee, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.520 then you're in the money basically, and often I would 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.800 say to you, as something of a veteran investor this 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.240 stage myself, the earlier you get that advice, the more 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.880 important it is because it's structural, and some of that 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.000 advice could be around, for instance, the structure of an 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.520 investment or the tax specifics long term, which you probably 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.080 won't know unless you are happen to be in that 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.520 area professionally. I think that's the really important thing. And 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.000 they often see things as well that are common knowledge 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.600 among advisors but are not common knowledge to investors. Even 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.800 though we might be very much across investment and investment allocation, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.520 the action we're put in together of a portfolio and 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.040 how that works with the tax office is actually what 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.600 really matters in terms of your returns. Okay, we're going 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:14.480 to come back in a moment. We'll take a short 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.040 break and we're going to take a look a little 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:21.480 deeper on who's who basically in the standscape for you 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.760 as a listener and how to optimize your way through 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:38.720 the financial advice system. Hello and welcome back to The 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.480 Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby, the Wealth editor 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.280 at The Australian and welcome aboard everybody. And one of 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.080 the things will you mentioned there I thought was really 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.720 interesting is so once upon a time, not that long ago, 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.120 say ten years ago or so, there was thirty thousand 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.800 advisors in Australia and now there's fifteen thousand point one 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:05.560 point two. The fifteen thousand advisors isn't growing, it's stalled 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.800 basically at that number. There have very few recruits. They're 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.520 really worried about this. I mean, professional associations are actually 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.800 recruiting in India trying to get people to come to 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.520 Australia to be financial advisors. At the same time there's 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:23.680 this huge demand, so more than just finding an advisor, 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.120 how do you get in the door to a good advisor? 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.400 What would you need to I'm going to put it 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.480 this way, what would you need to offer the advisor? 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.520 Because the point you made at the start there when 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.680 you were talking about a minimum, you were saying that 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.640 there's a minimum, but you're happy if the person is 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.520 aspiring to get to that minimum. 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.960 If we're confident that they will get there. 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:49.080 Yeah, And how would the investor persuade you? 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.800 Well, it's about their savings and earning's capacity, and we 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.920 look at the other asset based the other assets outside 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.320 of what they're potentially giving us that they've got. You know, 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.080 there's when we get into a competitive situation with another 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.120 firm and a client mentions that, and I think this 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.040 is a really important thing. Is I'm not going to 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.760 pitch why we're good or what we do, et cetera. 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.080 It's a personal thing. You know what we've got as 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.280 a skill set. And you know, I think being an 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.480 advisor is about being a very good listener. And therefore 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.040 I say to them, you have to decide and go 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.560 with the firm that you think you can best work with. 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:36.960 Very person outside of family, your asset basis is the 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.360 most important thing you've got, so that people have to 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.840 decide to work with a firm they think they is 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.240 the best thing they can work with. Now, we hope 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.640 that's us, but in many cases sometimes it's decide that's 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.360 another firm. And I think that's a very important thing. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.080 So it's not about looking up Google and deciding, oh, 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.960 look here's one, go and see them. Yeah, they can 0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:59.720 do the job. I really think this is you want 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.560 to have a long term relationship in the firm that 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:03.080 you're potentially going to see it wants to have a 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:07.360 long term a long term relationship as well, and you 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.720 therefore need to find the person or people that you 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:11.840 can best work with. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.040 And what about let's say when you were in your 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.360 late twenties or thirties, you found an advisor. They were 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.400 pretty good, It was all pretty good, got to a point, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.920 and then you're older and you say, I'm in a 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.880 different I'm actually in a different league now and this 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.640 person is very good. But it's the same thing every year. 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.960 I'm clearly missing I'm not getting this. I'm not getting 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.040 that he or she missed something this year that they 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.400 should have picked up, et cetera. What about that issue 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:45.200 of upscaling or switching to a more appropriate advisor. 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.240 That you know. Sometimes you do grow out of relationships, 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.200 don't you. And that's I think what you're talking about. 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.280 And that doesn't just rate financial advisors. It relates to accountants, lawyers, 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.960 et cetera. A firm that you go to. You were 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.760 talking about fund managers and fees before. Sometimes the big 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.600 firms they come out and say, we get feed discounts. Sorry, guys, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.400 everyone gets feed discounts. Make sure that the advisor gets 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.119 feed discounts with the fund managers. That's nothing unique there. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.720 The other thing the really big guys say is we 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.959 get access to product that others don't get. That's actually 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.600 not true. Some of the smaller firms get access to 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.680 things that the larger firms don't get because the larger 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.239 firms are too big. So it goes both ways. So 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:26.920 you just want to make sure there is a good 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.879 that you are able to access a broad, high quality 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:37.280 spectrum of solutions, multi asset class across the board and 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:38.520 at the right price. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.879 Right and turning it on the other side of the 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.840 table in terms of the relationship. So a couple comes 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:54.520 in to an advisor and one person is clearly very numerous, conservative, capable, 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:59.000 and it's going to be a good client. Unfortunately, the 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.520 other part in the copple you can see just wants 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.760 to have, just wants to spend, also wants to just 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.880 knock it out of the park and find a ten bagger. 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.119 Then you have, and let's make it even more interesting. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:19.160 Someone told you that that there are the point of divorce. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:21.080 Yeah. 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.359 The point I'm making here is the client changes on 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.200 you too, I'm sure absolutely, and how do you deal 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:28.359 with that? 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.679 So one thing we have is that everyone has to 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.920 do a risk profile. And one thing we do, and 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.560 we disclose this to the client, is we used to 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.480 think we'd invested DNA, which has an embedded psychometric test 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.679 in it, so we can sort of sc see them, 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.479 and that's fully disclosed to the client. So we can 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.000 see their stress points and what they rely on when 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.359 they're under stress. And so it's making sure there's the 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.399 right advisor is aligned to the right client. 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.920 Do the psychometric tests in your experience? Are they reliable? 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.399 It's amazing they are. 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.679 Yeah, I had this many times, but I wanted to 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.840 ask you they're very reliable. Yeah, okay, And I think in. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.639 One client in particular I sort of had in my 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.960 mind after I've met him, X is going to look 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.840 after him. And back came the test and I was like, WHOA, 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.199 I was wrong there. I've got to go in a 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.240 totally different direction. And that's really important, really important, And 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.200 you know it's sometimes in a relationship, when you have couples, 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:26.600 you don't realize that one is definitely stronger personality and 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.159 with respect to financial literacy than the other. And in 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.199 that case sometimes you realize that the other part of 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.480 the couple. You've got a dentist is next to it 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:38.920 to us, and they probably prefer to go to the 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:40.040 dentist and come to us. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.840 Yes, And that thing that people can be terrific. Someone 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:48.720 could be a terrific commercial lawyer and a catastrophic investor. 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:50.560 I'm sure you come across that all the time. 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.919 I always say, if we've and I think this is 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.760 something which is really important as well. And I know 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.359 that a lot of the better advisors, it's especially on 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.720 your list, would do exactly this as well. When you 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.919 know we are right, affirm does things a certain way, 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.480 and if someone comes in and wants as always looking 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.240 for that ten bagger, as you put it, I would 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.000 introduce them to somebody else. You know, we are as 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.919 iways say, we're a service about keeping wealthy people wealthy, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.520 and I think that's and I think another most of 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.320 the other firms on that list, I think if they 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.160 didn't feel the client was right for them, they would 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:26.159 introduce them. 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.720 On yes and that and hope and hopefully also making 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.840 them wealthy on their way, which of course would be 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.840 what a lot of listeners would be most keen upon, 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.640 I expect in terms of a mathematical breakdown. Okay, one 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.000 not thing on this. You mentioned you were in LA 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.959 at a financial advisor conference. You mentioned there was a 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.159 female panel. Do you know that my numbers on this 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:55.640 are as followers in Australia, among the fifteen five hundred advisors, 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:01.159 twenty three percent only our female And on the list 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.080 that came out today, the top one hundred and fifty 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:09.639 top financial Advisors list in the Australian only thirteen percent 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:14.359 are female. And that number hasn't moved much since we started. 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:17.520 I would have thought it would have, and I would 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:22.280 have thought that as an area it would have had 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:27.720 a much more sort of natural gender balanced by now, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.800 without any need for encouragement I would have thought of 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.399 it had just happened, but it hasn't at all. Any 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:35.760 theories from you as to why. 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.320 It gets back to things like the Royal Commission. Now, 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.480 I very senior female fand manager Tom in Sydney was 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.399 telling me that she was at her daughter's school. She 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.119 was asked to host, you know, the careers night to 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.919 go into finance. You're right, and so she sort of 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:55.600 turned up there to host all these young girls and 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:57.639 that wanted to go on and finance. Not one person 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:03.640 turned up a leading Sydney private school. And I think 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.840 that at the image of the industry still is it 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.240 front of mind? You know, you want to go and 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.400 do commerce. You've sort of got at the end of mind. 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:12.560 You want to be a lawyer, you do want it, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:20.040 to be an accountant. It's not we're still becoming a profession. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.080