1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Apote production. 2 00:00:14,241 --> 00:00:16,721 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host, 3 00:00:16,801 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: Adam Shand. In my career, I've been lucky enough to 4 00:00:20,041 --> 00:00:23,281 Speaker 2: meet many people on their journeys towards making a positive 5 00:00:23,321 --> 00:00:27,041 Speaker 2: impact in life. I'm always grateful to watch and support 6 00:00:27,041 --> 00:00:30,761 Speaker 2: their progress, because for every good outcome, there are dozens 7 00:00:30,761 --> 00:00:35,201 Speaker 2: of stories where good intentions go bad and the darkness wins. 8 00:00:35,601 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 3: Experts warn childhood exposure to family violence dramatically increases the 9 00:00:40,321 --> 00:00:42,121 Speaker 3: risk of future offending. 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,241 Speaker 2: So I celebrate success when people overcome that darkness. Peter 11 00:00:47,321 --> 00:00:51,161 Speaker 2: Bates is one such individual. Born into a family steeped 12 00:00:51,161 --> 00:00:55,041 Speaker 2: in traumatic family violence, Peter grew up believing that violence 13 00:00:55,161 --> 00:00:57,961 Speaker 2: was the answer to his problems and that only drugs 14 00:00:57,961 --> 00:00:59,841 Speaker 2: could quell the rage in his heart. 15 00:01:00,481 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: Heroin addiction continues to devastate families with early exposure linked 16 00:01:05,521 --> 00:01:07,321 Speaker 3: to long term criminal offending. 17 00:01:08,481 --> 00:01:11,801 Speaker 2: This cycle had a predictable outcome, a fourteen and a 18 00:01:11,801 --> 00:01:17,001 Speaker 2: half year prison sentence for manslaughter. Unfortunately, Peter cannot bring 19 00:01:17,081 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: back the life he took, but he has reclaimed his 20 00:01:20,681 --> 00:01:24,361 Speaker 2: own and put it to good use, mentoring young men 21 00:01:24,441 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: to protect and nurture the women in their lives. 22 00:01:28,401 --> 00:01:32,761 Speaker 3: New grassroots initiatives encourage men to take responsibility and challenge 23 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:33,721 Speaker 3: violent behavior. 24 00:01:34,881 --> 00:01:37,161 Speaker 4: Peter's journey is also a love story. 25 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,681 Speaker 2: In jail, he met Belinda, a corrections officer who is 26 00:01:41,761 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: now his wife. 27 00:01:43,241 --> 00:01:48,081 Speaker 3: An unlikely partnership forged inside prison walls, now focused on 28 00:01:48,241 --> 00:01:50,641 Speaker 3: helping others avoid the same fate. 29 00:01:52,081 --> 00:01:54,681 Speaker 2: Now, it's a great pleasure to welcome Peter and Belinda 30 00:01:55,001 --> 00:01:56,321 Speaker 2: to the real Crime Studio. 31 00:01:56,361 --> 00:01:59,641 Speaker 1: Good eight, goody mateks having. 32 00:01:59,521 --> 00:02:02,961 Speaker 2: Us absolute pleasure. There's so much to cover here. Let's 33 00:02:03,001 --> 00:02:05,921 Speaker 2: start off by asking what are the games you're doing? 34 00:02:06,081 --> 00:02:06,881 Speaker 2: What's that all about? 35 00:02:08,241 --> 00:02:11,881 Speaker 1: Okay? So, currently we have the Lighthouse, which is our 36 00:02:11,961 --> 00:02:14,681 Speaker 1: online community that we've set up for women in domestic 37 00:02:14,761 --> 00:02:19,321 Speaker 1: violence and coercive control situations. It's a private community where 38 00:02:19,841 --> 00:02:24,161 Speaker 1: Blender holds the space, and we're getting trauma support workers 39 00:02:24,161 --> 00:02:27,321 Speaker 1: in there and trauma survivors and just so the community 40 00:02:27,361 --> 00:02:32,281 Speaker 1: can prop each other up, so women's only in place. Also, 41 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,201 Speaker 1: I'm doing some talks with the construction industry and I'm 42 00:02:36,201 --> 00:02:39,081 Speaker 1: going to be talking to fire fight workers just about 43 00:02:39,121 --> 00:02:42,721 Speaker 1: domestic violence and alcohol and drugs and the young guys. 44 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,961 Speaker 1: Just trying to help young men make better decisions, you know, 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: I've made up a heap of digital resources around high 46 00:02:50,881 --> 00:02:54,161 Speaker 1: conflict men and just helping men understand what they're feeling 47 00:02:54,201 --> 00:02:57,081 Speaker 1: because a lot of the times they were never modeled 48 00:02:57,401 --> 00:03:00,561 Speaker 1: good behavior, so they don't know how to show good 49 00:03:00,601 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: behavior out with women and with their children. So judge 50 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,601 Speaker 1: and man, we're not having to go at anyone. We 51 00:03:08,001 --> 00:03:10,041 Speaker 1: just want to show you that there's a different way. 52 00:03:10,201 --> 00:03:12,001 Speaker 1: And I don't want no man to have to walk 53 00:03:12,041 --> 00:03:14,361 Speaker 1: a path that I've gone down and go through what 54 00:03:14,401 --> 00:03:17,841 Speaker 1: I've gone down. Change is hard, but anyone can make it. 55 00:03:17,921 --> 00:03:21,361 Speaker 2: You know, change is really hard, And I think I 56 00:03:21,441 --> 00:03:24,201 Speaker 2: really applaud what you're doing and you're an unlikely but 57 00:03:24,321 --> 00:03:28,281 Speaker 2: quite successful team. Belinda tell us why this is working 58 00:03:28,401 --> 00:03:30,281 Speaker 2: and what the partnerships all about. 59 00:03:30,721 --> 00:03:33,321 Speaker 5: Well, I think that with Peter, he has had a 60 00:03:33,361 --> 00:03:37,481 Speaker 5: traumatic life and then having to live most of his 61 00:03:38,001 --> 00:03:41,601 Speaker 5: adult life in jail has taught him something that you 62 00:03:41,641 --> 00:03:44,361 Speaker 5: can't really be taught because it's not a nice place 63 00:03:44,401 --> 00:03:47,081 Speaker 5: to be as I've seen those walls. But what I 64 00:03:47,121 --> 00:03:49,321 Speaker 5: found in Peter was that I worked in a drug 65 00:03:49,321 --> 00:03:52,601 Speaker 5: intervention unit and he was one of the mentors that 66 00:03:52,641 --> 00:03:55,401 Speaker 5: would come up to the unit and to help a 67 00:03:55,441 --> 00:03:57,401 Speaker 5: lot of the men that were in there that had 68 00:03:57,441 --> 00:04:00,801 Speaker 5: drug and our coohol problems, and just seeing him mental 69 00:04:01,201 --> 00:04:06,321 Speaker 5: those men through trying to keep them out of jail. 70 00:04:06,441 --> 00:04:08,961 Speaker 5: It was a big thing, especially when he's serving a 71 00:04:08,961 --> 00:04:12,081 Speaker 5: lot of time so and then now on the outside 72 00:04:12,081 --> 00:04:15,801 Speaker 5: world giving back to the community too, and just seeing 73 00:04:15,801 --> 00:04:18,641 Speaker 5: what his mother went through to as when he was 74 00:04:18,641 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 5: a child, to seeing that there's a lot of women 75 00:04:21,841 --> 00:04:24,361 Speaker 5: out there that are trapped in the same kind of 76 00:04:24,401 --> 00:04:28,121 Speaker 5: living arrangements and he's really just been a voice for them, 77 00:04:28,161 --> 00:04:30,481 Speaker 5: I think, And it's really courageous of him to be 78 00:04:30,561 --> 00:04:35,601 Speaker 5: able to speak outwards obviously, starting from these platforms that 79 00:04:35,641 --> 00:04:39,841 Speaker 5: we're using, and he's just building that through just you know, 80 00:04:40,001 --> 00:04:42,761 Speaker 5: like what experience he's had, because he's walked all of 81 00:04:42,761 --> 00:04:48,921 Speaker 5: this himself, like being incarcerated, being you know, into drugs 82 00:04:48,921 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 5: as well, and the addiction part of it, and then 83 00:04:51,921 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 5: you know, just the redemption of it all, I guess, 84 00:04:54,761 --> 00:04:57,841 Speaker 5: and then he's just giving back to the community and 85 00:04:58,041 --> 00:04:59,921 Speaker 5: I just really applause him for it because it's not 86 00:04:59,961 --> 00:05:02,281 Speaker 5: an easy thing to do and to watch what he's 87 00:05:02,281 --> 00:05:02,841 Speaker 5: been through. 88 00:05:03,721 --> 00:05:05,481 Speaker 2: Now that's right, and I think I'm right saying that 89 00:05:05,601 --> 00:05:08,881 Speaker 2: you also had experience of coercion and controlling your life 90 00:05:09,001 --> 00:05:10,521 Speaker 2: as well. I did. 91 00:05:10,641 --> 00:05:14,681 Speaker 5: Yes, my last relationship was I met him when I 92 00:05:14,721 --> 00:05:17,081 Speaker 5: was about fourteen years old, so it was very young 93 00:05:17,161 --> 00:05:21,041 Speaker 5: and engage at eighteen, married at twenty one, had our 94 00:05:21,041 --> 00:05:23,481 Speaker 5: first child at twenty three, and wasn't until I was 95 00:05:23,521 --> 00:05:27,241 Speaker 5: in my early thirties that I noticed a bit of 96 00:05:27,561 --> 00:05:30,161 Speaker 5: a pattern happening. I just thought it was normal, and 97 00:05:30,241 --> 00:05:32,361 Speaker 5: you know, walking on eggshells, you know, said, you know, 98 00:05:32,601 --> 00:05:33,641 Speaker 5: why are you dressed up? 99 00:05:33,721 --> 00:05:36,241 Speaker 6: Why are you wearing your tean? For you look pathetic? 100 00:05:36,281 --> 00:05:38,441 Speaker 5: And it just made you feel like you go in 101 00:05:38,481 --> 00:05:41,681 Speaker 5: woods and you just start to believe it. And just 102 00:05:41,681 --> 00:05:43,721 Speaker 5: seeing the way that he would speak to the kids, 103 00:05:43,801 --> 00:05:46,241 Speaker 5: and he was an alcoholic himself. 104 00:05:46,761 --> 00:05:48,121 Speaker 6: I think he had bipolar. 105 00:05:48,161 --> 00:05:50,881 Speaker 5: But yeah, it's just it's an awful situation, and a 106 00:05:50,921 --> 00:05:54,001 Speaker 5: lot of women think that it's okay, like it's just normal, 107 00:05:54,001 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 5: and you make excuses for that partner. And like I 108 00:05:56,841 --> 00:05:59,721 Speaker 5: never had any violence, as in, you know, being hit 109 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:00,601 Speaker 5: or anything like. 110 00:06:00,521 --> 00:06:02,961 Speaker 6: That, but it's certainly an eye opener. 111 00:06:03,001 --> 00:06:05,521 Speaker 5: And I didn't realize that I was actually in that 112 00:06:05,561 --> 00:06:08,561 Speaker 5: sort of environment until I actually worked in the jail 113 00:06:08,761 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 5: and it opened up my eyes then to see. 114 00:06:11,241 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean working in the jail is 115 00:06:13,761 --> 00:06:15,881 Speaker 2: a story in itself. We could have your own podcast 116 00:06:16,001 --> 00:06:19,161 Speaker 2: talking about that. We could How did you find your 117 00:06:19,161 --> 00:06:21,321 Speaker 2: way into that environment because it's not for everyone. 118 00:06:21,841 --> 00:06:22,201 Speaker 6: It's not. 119 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,801 Speaker 5: So maybe it's in my blood. My father was a 120 00:06:24,801 --> 00:06:27,161 Speaker 5: correctional officer at the Old Boggera. 121 00:06:27,001 --> 00:06:30,041 Speaker 6: Jail when I was a very young child, and I 122 00:06:30,081 --> 00:06:32,161 Speaker 6: think I was like my early thirties. I just I 123 00:06:32,161 --> 00:06:32,481 Speaker 6: don't know. 124 00:06:32,561 --> 00:06:34,561 Speaker 5: I just decided that, you know what, I want to 125 00:06:34,561 --> 00:06:37,241 Speaker 5: do this, So I applied, I got. 126 00:06:37,081 --> 00:06:39,481 Speaker 6: In, I did the training and whole. 127 00:06:40,681 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a lot to take in, and I guess 128 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,681 Speaker 5: that's what it is. I just, you know, always had 129 00:06:44,681 --> 00:06:47,921 Speaker 5: that intention of feeling, like, you know, looking at those 130 00:06:47,921 --> 00:06:50,441 Speaker 5: sort of behaviors and correcting and so forth. 131 00:06:50,961 --> 00:06:53,121 Speaker 6: So yeah, that's so I ended up and here I 132 00:06:53,161 --> 00:06:53,801 Speaker 6: am today. 133 00:06:54,481 --> 00:06:54,921 Speaker 4: Yeah. 134 00:06:55,161 --> 00:07:00,121 Speaker 2: It's not unusual for inmates and correctional offices to form relationships. 135 00:07:00,561 --> 00:07:03,241 Speaker 2: It's generally frowned upon, and it can lead to some 136 00:07:03,281 --> 00:07:08,201 Speaker 2: pretty ordinary outcomes. You took a very ethical stance in 137 00:07:08,241 --> 00:07:11,441 Speaker 2: your relationship with Peter. First of all, what did you 138 00:07:11,481 --> 00:07:14,481 Speaker 2: see in him that made it worth taking that risk 139 00:07:15,041 --> 00:07:17,601 Speaker 2: of what you did and having a relationship. 140 00:07:18,961 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 5: Look, I didn't go work in a jail to find 141 00:07:21,881 --> 00:07:24,401 Speaker 5: my true love. It's not something that way go around 142 00:07:24,641 --> 00:07:27,161 Speaker 5: and discuss with people. It's something that I've kept very 143 00:07:27,201 --> 00:07:30,161 Speaker 5: private to myself. But I guess, like Peter was never 144 00:07:30,361 --> 00:07:32,761 Speaker 5: the type of man that I would even go for. 145 00:07:32,841 --> 00:07:34,881 Speaker 5: So it was a bit deeper than that I think 146 00:07:34,881 --> 00:07:37,641 Speaker 5: when we first met, because, like I said, I worked 147 00:07:37,681 --> 00:07:40,721 Speaker 5: in a drug intervention unit, so being an officer in 148 00:07:40,761 --> 00:07:43,281 Speaker 5: one of those units is a little bit more demanding. 149 00:07:43,721 --> 00:07:45,521 Speaker 5: He was one of the mentors that would come up 150 00:07:45,561 --> 00:07:48,241 Speaker 5: from the village where he lived into the unit where 151 00:07:48,281 --> 00:07:51,961 Speaker 5: I looked after the men there, and we had counselors 152 00:07:52,001 --> 00:07:54,281 Speaker 5: come in, we had social workers, etc. 153 00:07:54,641 --> 00:07:55,321 Speaker 6: Coming in there. 154 00:07:55,321 --> 00:07:57,601 Speaker 5: So it was really a big thing to try and 155 00:07:57,721 --> 00:08:00,441 Speaker 5: help a lot of these men. And because a lot 156 00:08:00,441 --> 00:08:03,321 Speaker 5: of them felt uncomfortable coming to me because I do 157 00:08:03,401 --> 00:08:06,841 Speaker 5: a lot of case notes, Peter would report to me. Well, 158 00:08:06,841 --> 00:08:08,481 Speaker 5: he was one of them that would report to me 159 00:08:08,601 --> 00:08:11,481 Speaker 5: on the ones that didn't feel comfortable talking and let 160 00:08:11,521 --> 00:08:13,961 Speaker 5: me know, you know, information about them that I could 161 00:08:13,961 --> 00:08:16,481 Speaker 5: write up their case notes. So I guess that I'd 162 00:08:16,521 --> 00:08:19,001 Speaker 5: just seen and Peter had a connection with him just 163 00:08:19,081 --> 00:08:22,841 Speaker 5: due to the way I felt about genuinely caring about 164 00:08:22,961 --> 00:08:26,121 Speaker 5: trying to help these men stop coming in and out 165 00:08:26,561 --> 00:08:29,121 Speaker 5: and having this type of behavior and to correct it, 166 00:08:29,361 --> 00:08:31,801 Speaker 5: I guess, and yeah, I think that's where the connection 167 00:08:31,921 --> 00:08:32,521 Speaker 5: did start. 168 00:08:33,441 --> 00:08:35,881 Speaker 6: But you know, one thing led to another. 169 00:08:36,001 --> 00:08:39,361 Speaker 5: He was transferred out, and I felt that I had 170 00:08:39,441 --> 00:08:42,161 Speaker 5: feelings for him, which I didn't even know what they were. 171 00:08:42,281 --> 00:08:46,161 Speaker 5: But once he left, I soon left the job and 172 00:08:46,521 --> 00:08:48,921 Speaker 5: took it upon myself to write to him to see 173 00:08:49,001 --> 00:08:50,481 Speaker 5: if there was anything really there. 174 00:08:50,561 --> 00:08:51,921 Speaker 6: So that's how it started. 175 00:08:53,081 --> 00:08:56,121 Speaker 2: I remember talking to Chopper Read and his first wife 176 00:08:56,361 --> 00:08:58,961 Speaker 2: about jail. Well she wasn't a corrections officer, but she 177 00:08:59,001 --> 00:09:01,721 Speaker 2: was visiting Chopper in jail, and she said when she 178 00:09:01,801 --> 00:09:04,001 Speaker 2: visited him in jail, it was like seeing a Shetland 179 00:09:04,001 --> 00:09:07,361 Speaker 2: pony behind the glass outside of jail, she realized he 180 00:09:07,481 --> 00:09:12,041 Speaker 2: was a lion. It's a difficult transition from that confined 181 00:09:12,081 --> 00:09:15,001 Speaker 2: space where there are no drugs and alcohol. Well, there 182 00:09:15,041 --> 00:09:17,681 Speaker 2: are actually drugs. Go it's another story, but you can 183 00:09:17,761 --> 00:09:21,161 Speaker 2: avoid them. How difficult was it to make that transition 184 00:09:21,281 --> 00:09:25,401 Speaker 2: from a largely intellectual relationship in jail to an actual 185 00:09:25,401 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: one outside. 186 00:09:26,921 --> 00:09:29,321 Speaker 5: Look to begin with, when I first started to visit 187 00:09:29,401 --> 00:09:31,801 Speaker 5: him because I think he still had like four years 188 00:09:31,801 --> 00:09:35,001 Speaker 5: to go. There was nothing really like in concrete there 189 00:09:35,041 --> 00:09:38,241 Speaker 5: because I didn't really know him, he didn't really know me. 190 00:09:38,321 --> 00:09:40,841 Speaker 5: It was just about more of a communication connection. 191 00:09:41,281 --> 00:09:42,041 Speaker 6: Of course, we. 192 00:09:42,001 --> 00:09:44,721 Speaker 5: Obviously were attracted to each other. That goes without saying. 193 00:09:44,801 --> 00:09:49,401 Speaker 5: But the communication connection we had I felt outlast at 194 00:09:49,441 --> 00:09:53,201 Speaker 5: anything that you could possibly have on the outside, and 195 00:09:53,281 --> 00:09:56,361 Speaker 5: I think that in my life at that point, I 196 00:09:56,441 --> 00:10:00,161 Speaker 5: needed that type of connection rather than any other being, 197 00:10:00,401 --> 00:10:03,241 Speaker 5: you know, out in the real world you'd probably you know, 198 00:10:03,521 --> 00:10:06,921 Speaker 5: a sexual relationship, having that love and commitment of seeing 199 00:10:06,961 --> 00:10:09,681 Speaker 5: that person every time touch everything. 200 00:10:10,001 --> 00:10:12,041 Speaker 6: I did not experience that with Peter. 201 00:10:12,201 --> 00:10:15,241 Speaker 5: It was more, like I said, a communication getting to 202 00:10:15,281 --> 00:10:17,361 Speaker 5: know a person a lot deeper than a lot of 203 00:10:17,401 --> 00:10:21,041 Speaker 5: people would. And I guess then transitioning that from that 204 00:10:21,241 --> 00:10:25,841 Speaker 5: to the outside was easier than what I thought. Peter 205 00:10:26,161 --> 00:10:29,441 Speaker 5: grabbed onto life like I was shocked. He just walked 206 00:10:29,441 --> 00:10:32,161 Speaker 5: out like he had been already out here for several years. 207 00:10:32,201 --> 00:10:35,401 Speaker 6: It was unbelievable to see, but he pushed on. 208 00:10:35,561 --> 00:10:38,641 Speaker 5: And I think that our connection because of how deep 209 00:10:38,681 --> 00:10:41,681 Speaker 5: it was and how a lot of people out here 210 00:10:41,721 --> 00:10:44,241 Speaker 5: in the world don't get to grab onto that to 211 00:10:44,281 --> 00:10:47,241 Speaker 5: begin with is what helped us get through. 212 00:10:47,561 --> 00:10:49,841 Speaker 6: Our eleven years marriage now. 213 00:10:50,281 --> 00:10:53,761 Speaker 5: So yeah, it's really difficult to explain because it's hard 214 00:10:53,761 --> 00:10:57,041 Speaker 5: to explain, but that's how we feel and every day, 215 00:10:57,321 --> 00:11:00,481 Speaker 5: even today, it's kind of like we still just want 216 00:11:00,521 --> 00:11:02,561 Speaker 5: to be around each other and to see each other 217 00:11:02,641 --> 00:11:03,681 Speaker 5: and talk and we. 218 00:11:03,561 --> 00:11:04,121 Speaker 6: Talk a lot. 219 00:11:05,161 --> 00:11:07,281 Speaker 2: Wow, a marriage after eleven years, you still want to 220 00:11:07,281 --> 00:11:10,761 Speaker 2: see each other. That's a miracle, mate, fantastic. 221 00:11:11,161 --> 00:11:13,841 Speaker 1: I just want to say, we got to build a 222 00:11:13,881 --> 00:11:17,401 Speaker 1: foundation that most relationships don't get, and that was communication 223 00:11:17,561 --> 00:11:20,041 Speaker 1: and letters. For four years, that's all we had. We 224 00:11:20,121 --> 00:11:22,321 Speaker 1: had ten minute phone calls and we had letters, and 225 00:11:22,361 --> 00:11:25,321 Speaker 1: we had an hour visit once a week. And I think, 226 00:11:25,481 --> 00:11:27,241 Speaker 1: as hard as it was at the time, that was 227 00:11:27,241 --> 00:11:30,441 Speaker 1: a sort of fire that forged our relationship because we 228 00:11:30,441 --> 00:11:32,921 Speaker 1: we had that solid foundation and that's what's got us 229 00:11:32,921 --> 00:11:34,601 Speaker 1: through all these years now, you know. 230 00:11:34,801 --> 00:11:38,521 Speaker 2: So Yeah, listen, some people do find love in jail. 231 00:11:38,761 --> 00:11:41,361 Speaker 2: It's not always the most natural kind and it's not 232 00:11:41,361 --> 00:11:45,121 Speaker 2: someone you want to bring home generally. I reckon you 233 00:11:45,121 --> 00:11:48,881 Speaker 2: were lucky to find Blindagre. 234 00:11:48,001 --> 00:11:52,481 Speaker 1: Oh mate, Yeah, more than lucky, mate, Yeah, definitely, But 235 00:11:52,561 --> 00:11:54,241 Speaker 1: you make your own luck. You make your own luck 236 00:11:54,241 --> 00:11:57,201 Speaker 1: to you, mate. We found each other at a time 237 00:11:57,321 --> 00:12:00,521 Speaker 1: where I'd made big change in my life and Blinda 238 00:12:00,561 --> 00:12:02,721 Speaker 1: had had a big change in her life, and we 239 00:12:02,841 --> 00:12:05,961 Speaker 1: both sort of we're heading in the same direction with life. 240 00:12:06,081 --> 00:12:08,001 Speaker 1: And though I was in prison still we still had 241 00:12:08,041 --> 00:12:10,681 Speaker 1: the same sort of goals and hopes for the future, 242 00:12:10,761 --> 00:12:14,001 Speaker 1: and we stuck by each other for the next four years. 243 00:12:14,081 --> 00:12:16,281 Speaker 1: We went through hell over those four years, but we 244 00:12:16,281 --> 00:12:19,081 Speaker 1: stuck by each other and paid dividends for us. 245 00:12:19,121 --> 00:12:23,721 Speaker 2: Now, you know, it's bloody inspirational. Now, I wouldn't call 246 00:12:23,761 --> 00:12:27,841 Speaker 2: you a career criminal. You didn't choose crime. You were 247 00:12:27,881 --> 00:12:30,921 Speaker 2: a product of trauma in your family home which led 248 00:12:30,961 --> 00:12:34,001 Speaker 2: you down a certain path. Tell me about that background. 249 00:12:34,081 --> 00:12:36,081 Speaker 2: The stories you've told on Instagram. When I first saw 250 00:12:36,121 --> 00:12:39,081 Speaker 2: your story were harrowing about what you faced in the 251 00:12:39,121 --> 00:12:42,681 Speaker 2: home while your father persecuted and he raised your mother 252 00:12:42,801 --> 00:12:43,761 Speaker 2: over a long period. 253 00:12:44,201 --> 00:12:49,561 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a piece of shit, mate, alcoholic, insecure man. 254 00:12:49,681 --> 00:12:51,561 Speaker 1: As a kid, I thought he was the most dangerous, 255 00:12:51,601 --> 00:12:53,521 Speaker 1: scariest man I've ever met, you know. And then I 256 00:12:53,561 --> 00:12:55,601 Speaker 1: went to prison, And it wasn't until I become a 257 00:12:55,601 --> 00:12:57,841 Speaker 1: man myself I realized he was the weakest man I'd 258 00:12:57,881 --> 00:13:00,401 Speaker 1: ever come across in my life. But some of the 259 00:13:00,401 --> 00:13:03,241 Speaker 1: things he did to us basically torture made. He had 260 00:13:03,281 --> 00:13:05,881 Speaker 1: padlocks on the fridge, he had padlocks on the pantry. 261 00:13:06,001 --> 00:13:08,721 Speaker 1: You eat when he said you could eat, and he'd 262 00:13:08,761 --> 00:13:10,961 Speaker 1: give us all sorts of beatings. He'd send us to 263 00:13:11,001 --> 00:13:13,201 Speaker 1: the park to pick the stick that he was going 264 00:13:13,241 --> 00:13:15,441 Speaker 1: to flog us with. So me and my brother would 265 00:13:15,441 --> 00:13:17,681 Speaker 1: go out of the park and walk around for an 266 00:13:17,721 --> 00:13:20,121 Speaker 1: hour picking and trying to figure out which stick we 267 00:13:20,161 --> 00:13:21,641 Speaker 1: go on to take back that he can flog us 268 00:13:21,641 --> 00:13:23,881 Speaker 1: with your tooth in and it's going to cut you out. 269 00:13:24,321 --> 00:13:26,401 Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to fucking break bones? So 270 00:13:27,481 --> 00:13:30,081 Speaker 1: just the mental games on ten year old kids, and 271 00:13:30,121 --> 00:13:33,681 Speaker 1: that my mother repeatedly tried to leave him, But her 272 00:13:33,721 --> 00:13:38,081 Speaker 1: first real attempt, she packed some bags and he disappeared, 273 00:13:38,201 --> 00:13:39,961 Speaker 1: or she'd packed the bags and he'd come back up. 274 00:13:40,241 --> 00:13:42,281 Speaker 1: He disappeared, and she was in the hallway with the bags, 275 00:13:42,321 --> 00:13:43,801 Speaker 1: and I was in in the hallway and he's come 276 00:13:43,841 --> 00:13:47,361 Speaker 1: back upstairs. He's got a twenty letter drummer petrol and 277 00:13:47,441 --> 00:13:49,441 Speaker 1: he started frowing it all around the house. And then 278 00:13:49,481 --> 00:13:52,121 Speaker 1: he's frowning it all over the top of me, and 279 00:13:52,161 --> 00:13:54,361 Speaker 1: he pulled out his lighter and he said, you're still 280 00:13:54,401 --> 00:13:59,481 Speaker 1: going to leave and give it a flick. And she submitted. Mate, 281 00:13:59,601 --> 00:14:02,201 Speaker 1: she submitted. And that's what I talk about in some 282 00:14:02,281 --> 00:14:06,361 Speaker 1: of my videos, like especially Hannah Clark May she didn't submit, 283 00:14:06,521 --> 00:14:09,561 Speaker 1: she run, But my mother had to submit to not 284 00:14:09,641 --> 00:14:13,681 Speaker 1: have that happen to and so many women, like we've 285 00:14:13,681 --> 00:14:17,001 Speaker 1: got legally hundreds and hundreds of messages in our inbox 286 00:14:17,041 --> 00:14:19,441 Speaker 1: from women that are still trapped in these sort of situations. 287 00:14:19,521 --> 00:14:22,401 Speaker 1: Now me and billing to say this that these are 288 00:14:22,481 --> 00:14:24,841 Speaker 1: just the ones that are brave enough to reach out 289 00:14:24,881 --> 00:14:26,961 Speaker 1: and the ones that can reach out, because I knew 290 00:14:27,001 --> 00:14:28,961 Speaker 1: my mother wouldn't have been able to reach out back then. 291 00:14:29,761 --> 00:14:34,601 Speaker 2: So yeah, often these situations get normalized where silence reigns. 292 00:14:34,761 --> 00:14:37,401 Speaker 2: In that situation where you were doused with petrol and 293 00:14:37,441 --> 00:14:41,401 Speaker 2: almost became the sacrificial lamb in your parents' marriage. Once 294 00:14:41,841 --> 00:14:45,241 Speaker 2: your mother submitted, it was never mentioned again. 295 00:14:45,401 --> 00:14:48,361 Speaker 1: Never, Mate. I got told to have a shower as 296 00:14:48,401 --> 00:14:50,961 Speaker 1: a kid. They threw me in the shower, sent me 297 00:14:51,041 --> 00:14:53,721 Speaker 1: to bed, and I remember waking up in the morning 298 00:14:53,921 --> 00:14:56,521 Speaker 1: and coming out in the carpet all in the hallway 299 00:14:56,641 --> 00:14:58,761 Speaker 1: being ripped out. I went out to the kitchen and 300 00:14:58,761 --> 00:15:01,361 Speaker 1: they were sitting at the kitchen table drinking a coffee, 301 00:15:01,561 --> 00:15:05,161 Speaker 1: laughing and giggling. And I got my school bag and 302 00:15:05,201 --> 00:15:07,641 Speaker 1: went to school and I was never spoken about again, 303 00:15:07,681 --> 00:15:10,001 Speaker 1: and probably still to this day, Mate, there'd be no 304 00:15:10,081 --> 00:15:12,241 Speaker 1: carpet in that place from that night. 305 00:15:12,321 --> 00:15:15,201 Speaker 4: You know what's happened to your parents. 306 00:15:15,521 --> 00:15:20,161 Speaker 1: Mate, they're still a ger over forty some years. 307 00:15:19,481 --> 00:15:22,081 Speaker 4: You know, are you in contact with them? 308 00:15:22,401 --> 00:15:23,081 Speaker 1: No? 309 00:15:23,081 --> 00:15:25,321 Speaker 4: No, no, do you want to. 310 00:15:25,281 --> 00:15:26,641 Speaker 1: Be No, not at all. 311 00:15:27,441 --> 00:15:30,881 Speaker 2: Surely you'd want to express your feelings about what you 312 00:15:30,961 --> 00:15:32,041 Speaker 2: w I have. 313 00:15:32,161 --> 00:15:34,641 Speaker 1: Mate, I have, and he wanted. I was on parole 314 00:15:34,681 --> 00:15:36,721 Speaker 1: when I come over of prison, and he wanted to 315 00:15:36,721 --> 00:15:39,081 Speaker 1: call the place, and because I called him out over it, 316 00:15:39,121 --> 00:15:42,001 Speaker 1: you know, he wanted to call the place and make 317 00:15:42,081 --> 00:15:44,681 Speaker 1: stories up to get my parole revoked. And that's the 318 00:15:44,681 --> 00:15:46,001 Speaker 1: sort of mean he is, mate, That's the sort of 319 00:15:46,041 --> 00:15:48,241 Speaker 1: meant A lot of these men are where they go 320 00:15:48,321 --> 00:15:51,641 Speaker 1: from zero to extreme when they're cornered. You know, they're tough. 321 00:15:51,721 --> 00:15:55,001 Speaker 1: They're tough men behind doors with their women and children, 322 00:15:55,641 --> 00:15:57,801 Speaker 1: but when they're confronted by a man, they turn the 323 00:15:57,841 --> 00:16:00,841 Speaker 1: water so and that's what he did. He turned the 324 00:16:00,881 --> 00:16:04,841 Speaker 1: water and he's it's just that's the story of his life. 325 00:16:04,881 --> 00:16:08,001 Speaker 2: Mane Well, I hope you're listening, Peter's father, and you 326 00:16:08,001 --> 00:16:10,281 Speaker 2: should man up, even at this late stage and make 327 00:16:10,321 --> 00:16:12,321 Speaker 2: amends for this, because you should be proud of your son. 328 00:16:12,961 --> 00:16:14,801 Speaker 4: Proud of your son. So listen. 329 00:16:15,201 --> 00:16:20,281 Speaker 2: Your path from that day was drugs, truancy, no school. 330 00:16:20,561 --> 00:16:22,641 Speaker 2: Your life was pretty much destroyed. 331 00:16:23,321 --> 00:16:26,201 Speaker 1: It was mate, that was just one event, Mate, that 332 00:16:26,281 --> 00:16:28,881 Speaker 1: one with the patrol like, that's just one that stands out. 333 00:16:28,881 --> 00:16:32,041 Speaker 1: There was a thousand more like that. But unfortunately, mate, 334 00:16:32,081 --> 00:16:35,201 Speaker 1: as a young kid, I also had issues at school 335 00:16:35,201 --> 00:16:37,521 Speaker 1: with a teacher which I couldn't go to school and 336 00:16:37,521 --> 00:16:39,721 Speaker 1: get protected because I was going to school and a 337 00:16:39,761 --> 00:16:42,761 Speaker 1: male teacher was doing things that male teachers shouldn't be doing. 338 00:16:43,481 --> 00:16:45,641 Speaker 1: So I had nowhere to run as a kid, so 339 00:16:45,681 --> 00:16:49,281 Speaker 1: I run to the streets. By thirteen, I was shooting 340 00:16:49,321 --> 00:16:52,521 Speaker 1: up heroin and then my life just spiled. For the 341 00:16:52,521 --> 00:16:55,961 Speaker 1: next twenty odd years, I was just heroin and crime 342 00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:58,841 Speaker 1: and turned into a eighteen year prison term which I 343 00:16:58,841 --> 00:17:03,761 Speaker 1: saved fourteen and a half of And so these things 344 00:17:03,761 --> 00:17:07,641 Speaker 1: that men old to do to go through someone's life 345 00:17:07,681 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: and I don't think people realize that what sort of 346 00:17:10,441 --> 00:17:12,001 Speaker 1: impact these moments have. 347 00:17:13,721 --> 00:17:16,561 Speaker 2: Right, And one of your favorite sayings is your past 348 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:22,241 Speaker 2: explains who you are, It doesn't excuse it. Yeah, let's 349 00:17:22,801 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: deal with that traumatic moment when you're nineteen. I believe 350 00:17:27,241 --> 00:17:30,561 Speaker 2: where that terrible crime occurred, what happened. 351 00:17:31,281 --> 00:17:35,161 Speaker 1: Okay, So when I was around seventeen eighteen, I'd met 352 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: a girl. She got pregnant and we had a daughter. 353 00:17:37,681 --> 00:17:39,841 Speaker 1: She was three months premature. She ended up a Brisbane 354 00:17:39,961 --> 00:17:44,681 Speaker 1: Martin Mother's hospital tensive care for three months, had tubes 355 00:17:44,721 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: and everything coming out of it. You know, I was 356 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,041 Speaker 1: still years and drugs at the time. I was working 357 00:17:49,041 --> 00:17:52,561 Speaker 1: British labor and that whole situation was a lot of 358 00:17:52,561 --> 00:17:55,401 Speaker 1: stress on too. Because we're kids. We couldn't even aduld 359 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,521 Speaker 1: ourself lettle at our own child. So we ended up 360 00:17:58,561 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: breaking up. And I'd got a call from her a 361 00:18:01,961 --> 00:18:04,281 Speaker 1: couple of weeks after we'd broken up, and she'd said 362 00:18:04,281 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: that she'd just been slapped up the side of the 363 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: head by a bloke. A car drove passed and they 364 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,401 Speaker 1: yelled something out to her and she mouthed back off 365 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: at him, and the cars pulled up and they've jumped 366 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,281 Speaker 1: out and one of the Boks have slapped up the 367 00:18:16,281 --> 00:18:19,521 Speaker 1: side of the head. Me being and me at the time, 368 00:18:19,761 --> 00:18:22,641 Speaker 1: I went straight out there. She's seen where the car went, 369 00:18:22,721 --> 00:18:25,281 Speaker 1: and I jumped the fence of the house and I 370 00:18:25,441 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: run straight in the house and unfortunately one of the 371 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: men that were in the house during the old occasion, 372 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: he's fallen over and his head hit the tiles and 373 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: it fractured the bone in the back of his skull 374 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,561 Speaker 1: and he passed away within thirty seconds. So I originally 375 00:18:43,561 --> 00:18:47,201 Speaker 1: got charged with murder for that, I got sent. I 376 00:18:47,241 --> 00:18:50,201 Speaker 1: had two trials for it. First one was a mistrial 377 00:18:50,281 --> 00:18:54,281 Speaker 1: sec control. Two weeks in I pled guilty to manslaughter. 378 00:18:55,241 --> 00:18:58,481 Speaker 1: The deal with the prosecution was that, and my embarrassor 379 00:18:58,481 --> 00:19:00,521 Speaker 1: at the time organized that if you played guilty and 380 00:19:00,561 --> 00:19:03,041 Speaker 1: you're not to this, you'll get between eight and twelve years. 381 00:19:03,281 --> 00:19:06,241 Speaker 1: So I did. Comes in same day the judge said 382 00:19:06,281 --> 00:19:08,561 Speaker 1: that I should have been tried as a murderer. Therefore 383 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,561 Speaker 1: he's going to send me as a murderer, and then 384 00:19:10,681 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: he gave me life for manslaughter. And then maybe eighteen 385 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: months after that, they went to the High Court of 386 00:19:18,441 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Australia at pairs and they overturned it from life to 387 00:19:22,241 --> 00:19:24,601 Speaker 1: an eighteen year sentence. 388 00:19:25,321 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 2: Because fourteen and a half years is a life sentence 389 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: to most people. And your life was an absolute rock 390 00:19:32,241 --> 00:19:34,761 Speaker 2: bottom at that time, no family support. 391 00:19:35,241 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 4: You're in there. 392 00:19:36,241 --> 00:19:39,201 Speaker 2: You're not a crook, You're a victim in many ways, 393 00:19:39,521 --> 00:19:42,241 Speaker 2: and there you are. What was your feeling at that time? 394 00:19:42,281 --> 00:19:43,561 Speaker 2: What did your future look like? 395 00:19:44,441 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: Oh, mate, I was nineteen years old and then getting 396 00:19:47,721 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: a eighteen year sentence to try and comprehend that, like 397 00:19:52,001 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: the life i'd lived again, that I had to live 398 00:19:54,041 --> 00:19:56,921 Speaker 1: in prison. So at that stage I thought, I think 399 00:19:56,961 --> 00:19:58,561 Speaker 1: I was going to be thirty four or something. I 400 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: worked out by the time I got out, and I thought, fuck, 401 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: I now I'm going to die. Not long after that, 402 00:20:03,041 --> 00:20:06,241 Speaker 1: I'm nearly It's for a time and age as a kid, 403 00:20:06,321 --> 00:20:10,481 Speaker 1: you know, but I absolutely thought my life was all 404 00:20:10,521 --> 00:20:13,921 Speaker 1: over it. But I just I just got in the training, mate, 405 00:20:13,961 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: I got healthy and forgot about the world. And for 406 00:20:17,721 --> 00:20:22,321 Speaker 1: the next decade, I just buckled down and taught myself 407 00:20:22,321 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: how to read, how to read, and educated myself could 408 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,961 Speaker 1: put myself for school in there. And then it was 409 00:20:29,001 --> 00:20:30,921 Speaker 1: around ten years end that I'm at. 410 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,001 Speaker 2: Blenda because Belinda. As a corrections officer, you've seen people 411 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,241 Speaker 2: come into the system with these very heavy sentences where 412 00:20:39,321 --> 00:20:44,761 Speaker 2: hope is crushed, there is no future, They become institutionalized. 413 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,961 Speaker 2: What's your experience with seeing how people adapt to that reality? 414 00:20:51,001 --> 00:20:55,321 Speaker 5: Oh, most of them don't, because, well even officers don't, 415 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 5: because even though we get to go in there, we 416 00:20:57,321 --> 00:21:00,481 Speaker 5: get to go home, the reality of living in that 417 00:21:00,801 --> 00:21:04,761 Speaker 5: space day after day, twenty four hours a day. For 418 00:21:05,281 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 5: like with Peter, fourteen years is a very very long time, 419 00:21:09,761 --> 00:21:14,001 Speaker 5: and most people would think, like, how can you mind 420 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,561 Speaker 5: adapt to that? And like Peter said, the best thing 421 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,321 Speaker 5: to do is just to cut out the reality and 422 00:21:20,521 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 5: not have visitors, not have that support because people on 423 00:21:24,521 --> 00:21:26,281 Speaker 5: the outside have got to get on with their lives. 424 00:21:26,321 --> 00:21:28,521 Speaker 5: And I think that's a really good thing that a 425 00:21:28,561 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 5: person can do that because they have absolutely no one. 426 00:21:32,321 --> 00:21:35,481 Speaker 5: So I guess that myself, I felt that I was 427 00:21:35,521 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 5: a little bit different as an offsete, a little bit 428 00:21:37,241 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 5: more of obviously a caring side, you know, being a 429 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 5: mother as well. 430 00:21:40,681 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 6: So I guess that's. 431 00:21:41,521 --> 00:21:43,761 Speaker 5: Why they put me into a drug intervention unit with 432 00:21:43,801 --> 00:21:46,721 Speaker 5: the counselors, and that it's just like more or less 433 00:21:46,721 --> 00:21:49,041 Speaker 5: treated me a little bit more like humans because a 434 00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:50,241 Speaker 5: lot of the officers don't. 435 00:21:50,281 --> 00:21:52,601 Speaker 6: They don't care. They're in there for a reason, it's 436 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 6: their fault, blah blah blah. But I guess that my 437 00:21:55,961 --> 00:21:59,041 Speaker 6: way of thinking was, you know, to give a little like, 438 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,321 Speaker 6: give a bit of heart. It's just it's not hard. 439 00:22:01,521 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: Like. 440 00:22:01,801 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 6: They're still human beings. 441 00:22:03,201 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 5: Yes, they've made mistakes, they are the price every single day, and. 442 00:22:08,561 --> 00:22:11,121 Speaker 6: Some of them have support, some of them don't like it. 443 00:22:10,921 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 5: It is just about correcting behaviors for me, and to 444 00:22:13,761 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 5: help any way possible to get in people from the outside, 445 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,801 Speaker 5: to help them to see that there is a life 446 00:22:18,921 --> 00:22:21,201 Speaker 5: after here and you can do it, you know, So 447 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 5: just giving them that humanity back again. 448 00:22:24,481 --> 00:22:28,241 Speaker 2: Right, Because Peter Belinda wasn't the only officer who saw 449 00:22:28,321 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 2: potentially in you. You're in solitary. Another officer decided to 450 00:22:32,201 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: give you an encyclopedia one volume and it included astronomy, planets, 451 00:22:38,681 --> 00:22:42,001 Speaker 2: the cosmos, and suddenly you were able to transport yourself 452 00:22:42,041 --> 00:22:45,801 Speaker 2: to a place far away from that damp, dark hole 453 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,521 Speaker 2: that you were in. 454 00:22:47,201 --> 00:22:51,041 Speaker 1: Yeah. Mate, that's the turning point for me as a kid. Initially, 455 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,881 Speaker 1: the first part of my sounds, I was a shitthead, 456 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: constantly in trouble and flight and drugs, so constantly in solitary. 457 00:22:58,321 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: So this particular time, I've been down there three or 458 00:23:00,721 --> 00:23:04,081 Speaker 1: four weeks and here's one of the older fellows, old 459 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: Boggle Roads grow. He banged on the window and that 460 00:23:07,001 --> 00:23:09,201 Speaker 1: he's opened the slot, and he just said, you look 461 00:23:09,281 --> 00:23:12,521 Speaker 1: like you need this, because I'd been countingans and following 462 00:23:12,561 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: the shadows up the wall all day and just nothing 463 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,281 Speaker 1: in those solitary cells. So he passed me in the encyclopedia. Mate. 464 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: It had pictures of all the planets and stuff. And 465 00:23:22,201 --> 00:23:24,041 Speaker 1: that was the moment. Mate. I couldn't read and I 466 00:23:24,041 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: couldn't write, but I was just meds my eyes and 467 00:23:26,921 --> 00:23:30,041 Speaker 1: captivated by that, and I started sounding the words out. 468 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,721 Speaker 1: And I ended up taking that book, that encyclopedia back 469 00:23:32,761 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: with me and I got a whold of a dictionary. 470 00:23:34,521 --> 00:23:37,041 Speaker 1: And that's what I did. I just spent my days 471 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: just just learning how to read. And before long I 472 00:23:39,561 --> 00:23:41,681 Speaker 1: was devera on a couple of novels a week. And 473 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,801 Speaker 1: that moment was the moment they changed my life, you know, 474 00:23:46,001 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: And I just focused on educating myself after. 475 00:23:49,201 --> 00:23:51,961 Speaker 2: That, And tell me, as a bit of a book 476 00:23:52,001 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 2: nerd myself. Which were the authors that you started to 477 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:55,521 Speaker 2: get into? 478 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, mate, I read all the stoics, mate, Bryce Courtney, 479 00:23:58,921 --> 00:24:02,001 Speaker 1: wilbur Smith. Bryce Courtney was probably one of the first 480 00:24:02,001 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: ones I started doing. Jeffrey Archer, everyone, Matthew Royley, the 481 00:24:06,201 --> 00:24:11,001 Speaker 1: Australia for Dan Brown. Wilbersmith made It's Off to Africa 482 00:24:11,281 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 1: every day with him on a different adventure, you know. 483 00:24:13,561 --> 00:24:16,761 Speaker 2: So, yeah, and when you in jail, this really matters 484 00:24:16,801 --> 00:24:20,001 Speaker 2: because listen, jail's supposed to be about rehabilitation. But one 485 00:24:20,041 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 2: thing with your background, I don't think you'd ever been habilitated. 486 00:24:24,201 --> 00:24:26,921 Speaker 2: You had to learn what it was to be a man, 487 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,721 Speaker 2: to get a new worldview. How did that be into 488 00:24:30,761 --> 00:24:31,321 Speaker 2: shape for you? 489 00:24:32,521 --> 00:24:35,281 Speaker 1: That's true what you said, mate. I guess what I 490 00:24:35,281 --> 00:24:37,361 Speaker 1: did in prison is in a way, I was fortunate 491 00:24:37,481 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: that I was a young bloke at the time that 492 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,041 Speaker 1: I went in, because I thought I got to look 493 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: up to a lot of the men that were in there, 494 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: and they were bad men, but they still a lot 495 00:24:45,001 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: of them still had good morals, you know, they still 496 00:24:47,561 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: they may have done stupid things Rob Banks or et cetera, 497 00:24:50,521 --> 00:24:52,881 Speaker 1: but a lot of them took me under their wings, 498 00:24:53,321 --> 00:24:55,881 Speaker 1: and I learned what it was to be a man. 499 00:24:56,681 --> 00:24:59,241 Speaker 1: For me, it went with my training as well. Mate. 500 00:24:59,281 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: I just take the bits and pieces from people that 501 00:25:02,281 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: I fought, worked and just built my own structure. And 502 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: that's where I'm allowed to see my old man for 503 00:25:08,721 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: what he really was. You know, like I said to 504 00:25:10,481 --> 00:25:12,201 Speaker 1: you at the start that when I was a kiddle, 505 00:25:12,201 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: I thought he was the toughest, most dangerous man, but 506 00:25:14,521 --> 00:25:17,281 Speaker 1: by the end of it, he truly was the fucking 507 00:25:17,281 --> 00:25:18,441 Speaker 1: weakest man I've ever saying. 508 00:25:19,921 --> 00:25:21,281 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can keep saying that. By the way, I 509 00:25:21,281 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: hope he's listening because a lot of people in jail. 510 00:25:23,961 --> 00:25:25,801 Speaker 2: I've heard this myself from people who write to me. 511 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 2: They say, when I get out, I'll do this. When 512 00:25:28,281 --> 00:25:30,761 Speaker 2: I get out, I'll do that. Everything's going to change. 513 00:25:30,801 --> 00:25:33,001 Speaker 2: But the reality is they don't. As you said in 514 00:25:33,041 --> 00:25:34,801 Speaker 2: one of your Instagram posts, they come back in with 515 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,561 Speaker 2: less teeth, more scars, less hope in life. 516 00:25:37,921 --> 00:25:39,601 Speaker 4: And you saw that cycle. 517 00:25:40,801 --> 00:25:44,281 Speaker 1: Yeah, mate, when I get out usually becomes the Epaitah 518 00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: carved into their gravestone or someday. I actually did a 519 00:25:47,721 --> 00:25:50,721 Speaker 1: video about this the other day. It's I'm gonna when 520 00:25:50,761 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: I get out and someday I'll do this, but usually 521 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: those words are the last words they have on their lips, 522 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, And for me, I just wasn't going to 523 00:25:59,921 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: do that, mate. I just everything that blokes that have 524 00:26:03,521 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: done a long time or in and out of prison 525 00:26:05,921 --> 00:26:08,961 Speaker 1: it's said not to do. I just did the opposite. 526 00:26:09,001 --> 00:26:11,801 Speaker 1: I just attacked life. And we brought a house within 527 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,801 Speaker 1: a couple of years of me being home, and we 528 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,481 Speaker 1: built a million dollar bricclaimed business that fell over at COVID, 529 00:26:17,521 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: But we just attacked it full on, you know, Like 530 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: you choose how you feel made, like you choose if 531 00:26:23,921 --> 00:26:27,281 Speaker 1: you want to be institutionalized, or you choose if you 532 00:26:27,721 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: want to be a victim of what's happened to you, 533 00:26:29,681 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: or it's a choice. So it's not always easy not 534 00:26:34,041 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: being a victim, you know, but you still have that choice. 535 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,321 Speaker 2: So well, I'm going to challenge on this because a 536 00:26:39,321 --> 00:26:41,241 Speaker 2: lot of men find that very difficult. They say it's 537 00:26:41,281 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: easier said than done, and that, you know, words are cheap. 538 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,521 Speaker 2: But when they get back out into the real world 539 00:26:46,561 --> 00:26:49,001 Speaker 2: and the same co order shitheads is waiting for them, 540 00:26:49,241 --> 00:26:53,081 Speaker 2: the same drugs, the same lack of opportunity, the same prejudice, 541 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 2: against people who've spent long time in jail. But I'm 542 00:26:55,721 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 2: sure Blinda's got something to say about this. But how 543 00:26:57,961 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 2: do you insulate yourself from that, from the negative feelings 544 00:27:00,961 --> 00:27:02,281 Speaker 2: that overwhelm so many men. 545 00:27:02,761 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: Well, that's pretty fucking simple, mate. You don't go back 546 00:27:04,921 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: to the same bunch of fucking idiots that you went 547 00:27:06,801 --> 00:27:10,041 Speaker 1: to jar with. You know, you make the decision to 548 00:27:10,681 --> 00:27:13,521 Speaker 1: whether you change. You don't go back to that same area. 549 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,481 Speaker 1: You change who you hang around, You change your route 550 00:27:16,561 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: to work or wherever you're going. You just if your 551 00:27:19,241 --> 00:27:22,041 Speaker 1: fared income, your fired income, you know you would do 552 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: what you have to do. You know what it is 553 00:27:23,721 --> 00:27:26,561 Speaker 1: that's bringing you down if you keep makings he goes, 554 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,281 Speaker 1: oh when it got out and it's all the same 555 00:27:29,321 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: boys were there, and we'll fuck them off. It's no 556 00:27:31,681 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: one else's fault. You make the choice, you've got the choices. 557 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,761 Speaker 1: You make the decisions on what you do with yourself. 558 00:27:38,241 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 2: Right now, Belinda, there must have been times when he 559 00:27:41,321 --> 00:27:44,241 Speaker 2: got down on himself, doubted himself, with the moments where 560 00:27:44,241 --> 00:27:46,321 Speaker 2: you had to pull out the metaphorical baton and say 561 00:27:46,761 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: he stay on the straight and narrow. 562 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 5: Look, there was times where I knew the type of 563 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 5: man Peter is, and I knew that even though he 564 00:27:57,001 --> 00:28:00,281 Speaker 5: would get down and dark about things, I would just 565 00:28:00,321 --> 00:28:05,041 Speaker 5: be there beside him, supporting him, holding the line, because 566 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 5: I knew that he would come back because look at 567 00:28:07,961 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 5: what he's achieved already in such a shitty life that 568 00:28:11,281 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 5: he's had so far, what he's created himself. 569 00:28:14,961 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 6: He's made the choices. 570 00:28:16,921 --> 00:28:20,001 Speaker 5: For me to tell him what to do or I 571 00:28:20,041 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 5: don't think that's the right thing to do. I think 572 00:28:22,201 --> 00:28:24,801 Speaker 5: that we all adults and we need to make our 573 00:28:24,801 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 5: own choices. And you know what they always say with 574 00:28:27,201 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 5: making your bed and then lying in it. So I 575 00:28:29,761 --> 00:28:32,801 Speaker 5: knew that he would make the right decisions because of 576 00:28:33,001 --> 00:28:35,161 Speaker 5: the man that I fell in love with to begin with, 577 00:28:35,481 --> 00:28:38,561 Speaker 5: how different he was and how he saw life, and 578 00:28:38,601 --> 00:28:41,761 Speaker 5: that there is life to be lived and if you 579 00:28:41,761 --> 00:28:43,121 Speaker 5: want to live it and you want it to be 580 00:28:43,161 --> 00:28:45,121 Speaker 5: a good one, then you need to make the right choices. 581 00:28:45,361 --> 00:28:48,561 Speaker 5: And he has and I'm glad I stayed beside him. 582 00:28:49,281 --> 00:28:51,201 Speaker 4: Have there been moments of doubt for you as well? 583 00:28:51,721 --> 00:28:53,521 Speaker 6: Oh, look, I'm not going to lie. 584 00:28:53,641 --> 00:28:56,281 Speaker 5: Yes, there was there was times where I thought, is 585 00:28:56,281 --> 00:28:56,841 Speaker 5: this how. 586 00:28:56,841 --> 00:28:57,841 Speaker 6: Our life's going to be? 587 00:28:58,001 --> 00:29:01,201 Speaker 5: Like you know, because when Peter did relapse, it was 588 00:29:01,401 --> 00:29:04,761 Speaker 5: very difficult for me because I hadn't been in that 589 00:29:05,081 --> 00:29:08,641 Speaker 5: sort of environment before, but had the experience obviously from 590 00:29:08,641 --> 00:29:12,561 Speaker 5: working in corrections. But I love him very deeply, and 591 00:29:12,641 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 5: I knew that man that I fell in love with 592 00:29:14,601 --> 00:29:17,241 Speaker 5: is still there and that he just needs to find 593 00:29:17,281 --> 00:29:22,161 Speaker 5: his way himself. And he did, and I just stood 594 00:29:22,161 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 5: beside him as a woman should if they feel that 595 00:29:25,041 --> 00:29:26,401 Speaker 5: strongly about their partner. 596 00:29:27,041 --> 00:29:27,481 Speaker 4: Yeah, Peter. 597 00:29:27,601 --> 00:29:32,121 Speaker 2: So many people relapse in life to negative behaviors. The 598 00:29:32,121 --> 00:29:34,921 Speaker 2: scar tissue was deep and strong and hard to change. 599 00:29:35,321 --> 00:29:39,001 Speaker 2: And often the impressions people give to you a negative 600 00:29:39,441 --> 00:29:41,521 Speaker 2: tell us about when you relapse and why you didn't 601 00:29:41,561 --> 00:29:42,961 Speaker 2: stay in that negative state. 602 00:29:43,921 --> 00:29:47,281 Speaker 1: I relapsed twenty and eight eight for a brief period. 603 00:29:47,361 --> 00:29:49,841 Speaker 1: This was after we'd built out, Like I said, we 604 00:29:50,001 --> 00:29:52,561 Speaker 1: brought a home. We both just worked. All we did 605 00:29:52,641 --> 00:29:56,121 Speaker 1: is worked and just got stuck right into life. I 606 00:29:56,121 --> 00:29:58,841 Speaker 1: had fifteen staff working for me. I even had a 607 00:29:58,841 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: few blocks from jail. We'd given jobs as laborers and 608 00:30:02,241 --> 00:30:05,761 Speaker 1: they're doing good, you know. And COVID hit and it overnight. 609 00:30:06,441 --> 00:30:08,601 Speaker 1: It happened to everyone, like it happened to everyone. But 610 00:30:08,641 --> 00:30:12,281 Speaker 1: the world fell over and I had too much time 611 00:30:12,321 --> 00:30:15,321 Speaker 1: on my hands, and with me idle hands breeds mischief 612 00:30:16,201 --> 00:30:19,041 Speaker 1: and from one thing to another. I started to get 613 00:30:19,081 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: really down on myself because I wasn't performing like I 614 00:30:22,721 --> 00:30:24,801 Speaker 1: thought I would. You know, I thought I was letting 615 00:30:24,801 --> 00:30:26,681 Speaker 1: Blenda down. I thought I was letting my daughter down. 616 00:30:27,481 --> 00:30:31,201 Speaker 1: And then I relapsed, mate, and that took off really 617 00:30:31,241 --> 00:30:35,921 Speaker 1: quick for me. I spiraled. I was using fucking insane 618 00:30:35,961 --> 00:30:40,841 Speaker 1: amounts of gear straight away, heroin n I was using math, 619 00:30:41,321 --> 00:30:44,681 Speaker 1: and I got to a point where within a few months, 620 00:30:44,721 --> 00:30:47,281 Speaker 1: I was sitting in my garage at three o'clock in 621 00:30:47,281 --> 00:30:49,841 Speaker 1: the morning with a rope in my hand because I 622 00:30:49,961 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: just I just come to the end of line. I 623 00:30:52,441 --> 00:30:55,201 Speaker 1: thought I cannot go on. I just felt like I'd 624 00:30:55,281 --> 00:30:57,841 Speaker 1: let my family down. Like many men do, you know, 625 00:30:58,481 --> 00:31:00,601 Speaker 1: we get to a point where we think we need 626 00:31:00,641 --> 00:31:02,641 Speaker 1: to be the protectors and we can't ask for help. 627 00:31:02,761 --> 00:31:05,001 Speaker 1: And I was sitting in the garage, mate, with peace 628 00:31:05,161 --> 00:31:08,281 Speaker 1: rope my hand, and our staffy, boy Staffy come over 629 00:31:08,321 --> 00:31:10,161 Speaker 1: and he sat between my legs and he put his 630 00:31:10,161 --> 00:31:13,561 Speaker 1: head back into my chest, and it was almost like 631 00:31:13,841 --> 00:31:16,601 Speaker 1: he said not to go you know, Yeah, that's that 632 00:31:16,681 --> 00:31:19,801 Speaker 1: stopped me. That night and he died two weeks later. 633 00:31:20,081 --> 00:31:22,281 Speaker 1: That boy and I made a promise to him then 634 00:31:22,321 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: and there that i'd stop using, and I did. I 635 00:31:25,441 --> 00:31:28,761 Speaker 1: stopped using, and I reached out. I asked for help. 636 00:31:29,161 --> 00:31:30,881 Speaker 1: That's another thing I want to talk to men about, 637 00:31:31,001 --> 00:31:33,161 Speaker 1: is it's okay to ask for help. Sometimes we don't 638 00:31:33,201 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: have all the answers, you know. I thought I had 639 00:31:35,761 --> 00:31:38,441 Speaker 1: all the answers, Like I know more about drug rear 640 00:31:38,481 --> 00:31:41,201 Speaker 1: balitation than most counselors, though, made I sat, I sat 641 00:31:41,281 --> 00:31:43,881 Speaker 1: in all the circles were them, I've said to in 642 00:31:44,001 --> 00:31:47,041 Speaker 1: some of the videos. I could quote the textbooks better 643 00:31:47,081 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: than them. But once it got hold of me, I 644 00:31:50,241 --> 00:31:53,401 Speaker 1: was in trouble, you know. And I reached out to 645 00:31:53,481 --> 00:31:56,681 Speaker 1: drug Arm and I started working with them, and then 646 00:31:56,881 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: we kicked it back on track. And yeah, I've been 647 00:32:00,281 --> 00:32:01,201 Speaker 1: pumping sands. 648 00:32:02,441 --> 00:32:05,521 Speaker 2: Blenda's looking at you, saying, if you go back, son, 649 00:32:05,641 --> 00:32:06,281 Speaker 2: you're finished. 650 00:32:07,041 --> 00:32:09,921 Speaker 1: I reckon, of course, of course, mate, Well she I 651 00:32:09,921 --> 00:32:13,201 Speaker 1: wouldn't do that, mate. I am so fortunate to have her. 652 00:32:13,481 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: I am so fortunate to have Belinda. She's just so 653 00:32:17,481 --> 00:32:22,841 Speaker 1: patient and so understanding and just ad a good human being, mate. 654 00:32:23,001 --> 00:32:26,201 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's hard for a man like me who's 655 00:32:26,241 --> 00:32:29,041 Speaker 1: come from a place where I've come from too for 656 00:32:29,201 --> 00:32:32,521 Speaker 1: a woman to see the worth, you know, and she 657 00:32:32,721 --> 00:32:34,841 Speaker 1: just did from the get gos. If it wasn't for her, 658 00:32:35,641 --> 00:32:39,281 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be half the man that I'd become. I'm very, very. 659 00:32:39,161 --> 00:32:45,121 Speaker 2: Fortunate, Belinda. He's full of humility and insight. But do 660 00:32:45,161 --> 00:32:48,281 Speaker 2: you think he's forgiven himself for the places he put 661 00:32:48,361 --> 00:32:48,921 Speaker 2: himself in? 662 00:32:50,241 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 5: I think of recent times, yes, because I think that 663 00:32:53,801 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 5: this has been really great medicine for himself with what 664 00:32:58,441 --> 00:33:01,161 Speaker 5: he's started to do here, with trying to get out 665 00:33:01,161 --> 00:33:04,681 Speaker 5: to all the men and women about the patterns and 666 00:33:04,721 --> 00:33:08,641 Speaker 5: then troll and the choices. I think that this has 667 00:33:09,001 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 5: been absolute great medicine for him to help himself and 668 00:33:14,281 --> 00:33:15,961 Speaker 5: to help others who are in need. 669 00:33:16,641 --> 00:33:18,881 Speaker 6: It's just been, like I can see it. 670 00:33:18,881 --> 00:33:21,961 Speaker 5: It's like he's this like bright star, like he's finally 671 00:33:21,961 --> 00:33:22,601 Speaker 5: come through. 672 00:33:23,201 --> 00:33:24,801 Speaker 6: Peter just needed to see that. 673 00:33:24,681 --> 00:33:27,561 Speaker 5: There is another life out there that you can live 674 00:33:27,721 --> 00:33:31,001 Speaker 5: and it can be okay, even though, like he might say, 675 00:33:31,041 --> 00:33:33,321 Speaker 5: half is gone now, but he still thinks he's going 676 00:33:33,361 --> 00:33:36,601 Speaker 5: to live to like two hundred or something, So. 677 00:33:36,801 --> 00:33:39,881 Speaker 1: He's still for forty seven. 678 00:33:40,401 --> 00:33:43,601 Speaker 4: Mate. That's just young, don't give it. Give you got 679 00:33:43,601 --> 00:33:44,161 Speaker 4: plenty of time. 680 00:33:44,881 --> 00:33:47,321 Speaker 2: But brother, I've got to tell you, I'm sure people 681 00:33:47,361 --> 00:33:51,521 Speaker 2: listening are thinking, if someone like Peter with his background 682 00:33:51,841 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: can make those changes, pull his life out out of 683 00:33:54,721 --> 00:33:58,761 Speaker 2: the dumpster and find purpose, why can't I. What's your 684 00:33:58,881 --> 00:34:02,401 Speaker 2: message to men and women? I guess who were in 685 00:34:02,441 --> 00:34:05,161 Speaker 2: the sort of spaces you're talking about, mate. 686 00:34:05,121 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: And anyone? Like I said, it's easy to be a 687 00:34:07,521 --> 00:34:10,281 Speaker 1: victim of your past. It truly is. And I've got 688 00:34:10,561 --> 00:34:14,601 Speaker 1: I've still people from when I was a kid around 689 00:34:14,601 --> 00:34:17,721 Speaker 1: in my life that are victims and have never gotten 690 00:34:17,721 --> 00:34:20,921 Speaker 1: out of the hole. But to be a victim, you 691 00:34:20,961 --> 00:34:24,761 Speaker 1: are you were letting whoever perpetrated that crime or whatever 692 00:34:24,761 --> 00:34:26,481 Speaker 1: they've done to you. You're letting them live in your 693 00:34:26,521 --> 00:34:28,961 Speaker 1: head for rent free, you know. So every time you 694 00:34:29,001 --> 00:34:32,081 Speaker 1: think about them, every time you be a victim, you're 695 00:34:32,121 --> 00:34:34,961 Speaker 1: letting them still get a victory over you. So you 696 00:34:35,041 --> 00:34:37,801 Speaker 1: need to get to a point where you go, fuck it, 697 00:34:38,561 --> 00:34:41,041 Speaker 1: no one's going to save me but me, and you've 698 00:34:41,041 --> 00:34:43,401 Speaker 1: got to pull your socks up and you've got to 699 00:34:43,401 --> 00:34:46,881 Speaker 1: just start walking forward, you know, Like it's hard, made 700 00:34:47,401 --> 00:34:50,921 Speaker 1: it's hard to not go poor me you know, but 701 00:34:52,921 --> 00:34:55,081 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a good feeling being able to 702 00:34:55,081 --> 00:34:56,761 Speaker 1: hold your chin up mate, not be a victim. 703 00:34:56,801 --> 00:34:59,561 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and you talk about doing it yourself, 704 00:34:59,601 --> 00:35:01,081 Speaker 2: but you've also had the love of a good woman. 705 00:35:01,401 --> 00:35:02,521 Speaker 1: I help you. 706 00:35:02,721 --> 00:35:06,881 Speaker 4: Definitely good, Blinda. 707 00:35:06,921 --> 00:35:10,121 Speaker 2: What's your advice to women who are in this coercion 708 00:35:10,161 --> 00:35:12,881 Speaker 2: and control situations? A lot of it is not violence, 709 00:35:12,921 --> 00:35:15,721 Speaker 2: it's not being slept. It's often just silence, being e 710 00:35:15,881 --> 00:35:18,801 Speaker 2: raised and then being you say, as a sexual object 711 00:35:18,841 --> 00:35:22,241 Speaker 2: when a man wants to have his way. What's your advice? 712 00:35:22,281 --> 00:35:24,041 Speaker 2: And I guess what are the sort of things you're 713 00:35:24,081 --> 00:35:25,601 Speaker 2: shaping for the people you're talking to? 714 00:35:26,921 --> 00:35:30,001 Speaker 5: Well, from my own experience, look, when you are young 715 00:35:30,041 --> 00:35:32,201 Speaker 5: and you're in a relationship like I was. I was 716 00:35:32,281 --> 00:35:35,001 Speaker 5: very young when I first got married and had children, 717 00:35:35,601 --> 00:35:39,561 Speaker 5: when you can see that things are different and a 718 00:35:39,561 --> 00:35:42,641 Speaker 5: woman really does well, most women really can feel it 719 00:35:42,641 --> 00:35:45,641 Speaker 5: in the gut. Even though you might have absolute love 720 00:35:45,681 --> 00:35:49,201 Speaker 5: for this person, if they're treating you that way, that 721 00:35:49,361 --> 00:35:52,601 Speaker 5: is not a relationship. It's definitely not a relationship, and 722 00:35:52,641 --> 00:35:55,681 Speaker 5: that you need to get away from it, like you 723 00:35:55,961 --> 00:35:58,801 Speaker 5: just need to and you need to be selfish because 724 00:35:59,321 --> 00:36:02,601 Speaker 5: I know that with myself. My children were young, and 725 00:36:02,681 --> 00:36:05,641 Speaker 5: I just kept thinking that my children, Like, where am 726 00:36:05,681 --> 00:36:07,881 Speaker 5: I going to go? What about my children? They're so young, 727 00:36:07,921 --> 00:36:10,081 Speaker 5: They're going to hate me for it? And being like 728 00:36:10,121 --> 00:36:13,321 Speaker 5: a victim, as Peter says, myself, until I got to 729 00:36:13,561 --> 00:36:15,801 Speaker 5: a time that I was just sick the hell of it, 730 00:36:15,921 --> 00:36:18,241 Speaker 5: and I just wake up one day and I was 731 00:36:18,281 --> 00:36:21,681 Speaker 5: sick a f and groundhog day, and I when I 732 00:36:21,841 --> 00:36:24,561 Speaker 5: am going, I've had enough. I am a person, I 733 00:36:24,601 --> 00:36:27,281 Speaker 5: am not the child in this relationship, and no one 734 00:36:27,361 --> 00:36:30,801 Speaker 5: can tell me what to do. And everyone deserves love, right, 735 00:36:30,961 --> 00:36:33,361 Speaker 5: So that's not love. That is not love. 736 00:36:33,401 --> 00:36:35,921 Speaker 6: When a man puts you down or tells you that 737 00:36:36,361 --> 00:36:37,001 Speaker 6: you know and you. 738 00:36:36,961 --> 00:36:40,361 Speaker 5: Start to feel that hopeless, helpless feeling, it's just not 739 00:36:40,681 --> 00:36:43,961 Speaker 5: it's not fair, and you become you become tense, and 740 00:36:44,001 --> 00:36:47,201 Speaker 5: you go inside yourself and you feel like you're just worthless. 741 00:36:47,641 --> 00:36:51,841 Speaker 5: That is not how anybody in this world should ever feel. 742 00:36:52,321 --> 00:36:55,201 Speaker 5: And it just sickens me that children are even feeling 743 00:36:55,241 --> 00:36:57,401 Speaker 5: this way as well. And sometimes we have to be 744 00:36:57,521 --> 00:37:02,321 Speaker 5: selfish and we need to move from that situation and 745 00:37:02,961 --> 00:37:05,721 Speaker 5: make it better for yourself before you can make anything 746 00:37:05,761 --> 00:37:08,441 Speaker 5: else better. And that's what I did. It might have 747 00:37:08,521 --> 00:37:12,121 Speaker 5: taken me a long time, but again me getting my 748 00:37:12,241 --> 00:37:15,441 Speaker 5: voice out there too, just to see that women that 749 00:37:15,601 --> 00:37:17,881 Speaker 5: can talk to me, that they can see that they're 750 00:37:17,881 --> 00:37:20,241 Speaker 5: in that situation. And look, I'm not going to say 751 00:37:20,241 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 5: it's easy, because it is hard. Like there was times 752 00:37:22,441 --> 00:37:24,041 Speaker 5: when I left that I wanted to go back becaus 753 00:37:24,041 --> 00:37:26,161 Speaker 5: I would have made it easier. But I am so 754 00:37:26,321 --> 00:37:29,801 Speaker 5: glad that I made that decision because I now can 755 00:37:29,841 --> 00:37:34,841 Speaker 5: see that my daughter, who's now twenty four, is such 756 00:37:34,881 --> 00:37:37,681 Speaker 5: a strong individual, and I know that if I would 757 00:37:37,721 --> 00:37:40,041 Speaker 5: have stayed, she would not be that person today. So 758 00:37:40,281 --> 00:37:42,841 Speaker 5: I feel that even though at the time I was 759 00:37:42,881 --> 00:37:45,041 Speaker 5: worried about my children, and I went through a lot 760 00:37:45,081 --> 00:37:46,761 Speaker 5: with my children, but at the end of the day, 761 00:37:46,801 --> 00:37:49,881 Speaker 5: look at her now, how strong she is as a woman. Yeah, 762 00:37:50,201 --> 00:37:54,801 Speaker 5: I think that women should really be mindful of their situations. 763 00:37:55,361 --> 00:37:57,481 Speaker 6: Yeah, if they're feeling that way, get the hell. 764 00:37:57,321 --> 00:38:01,201 Speaker 2: Out right and Peter, it could be said that living 765 00:38:01,201 --> 00:38:04,041 Speaker 2: a life of purpose and success is the greatest revenge 766 00:38:04,081 --> 00:38:06,601 Speaker 2: you could ever have against your father who tried to 767 00:38:06,641 --> 00:38:08,681 Speaker 2: blot you out, tried to blot your mother out. 768 00:38:09,081 --> 00:38:11,201 Speaker 4: How do you feel about It's perverse? 769 00:38:11,241 --> 00:38:13,361 Speaker 2: I know to say this, but the fact that your 770 00:38:13,401 --> 00:38:15,841 Speaker 2: experiences had been the making of you my friend. 771 00:38:16,361 --> 00:38:19,201 Speaker 1: Honestly, mate, I don't really care what he thinks now. 772 00:38:19,641 --> 00:38:21,921 Speaker 1: I got past all that. There was a time where 773 00:38:21,961 --> 00:38:25,841 Speaker 1: I wanted him to see me and go, look what 774 00:38:25,841 --> 00:38:28,841 Speaker 1: he's done, you know, But now he gets no time 775 00:38:28,881 --> 00:38:30,841 Speaker 1: in my head. No more, Mate, he gets no time 776 00:38:30,841 --> 00:38:34,521 Speaker 1: in my head. It's about for me. It's just about 777 00:38:34,921 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: trying to make a difference, you know, trying to give back. 778 00:38:37,041 --> 00:38:39,401 Speaker 1: I did something pretty shit when I was a kid, 779 00:38:39,441 --> 00:38:41,081 Speaker 1: and I hate I hate that I did that, and 780 00:38:41,161 --> 00:38:43,961 Speaker 1: I hate that a family lost lost a son because 781 00:38:44,001 --> 00:38:49,001 Speaker 1: of me. But I feel that I have been to hell, mate, 782 00:38:49,041 --> 00:38:51,001 Speaker 1: and it would be irresponsible of me to not bring 783 00:38:51,041 --> 00:38:53,441 Speaker 1: a mate back with me and try and help with 784 00:38:53,441 --> 00:38:56,601 Speaker 1: few other people get out of get out of some 785 00:38:56,681 --> 00:39:00,321 Speaker 1: of their situations, and maybe not experience what I've had 786 00:39:00,361 --> 00:39:00,921 Speaker 1: to go through. 787 00:39:01,801 --> 00:39:04,441 Speaker 2: I think you've been through the sweets and sours of 788 00:39:04,481 --> 00:39:07,681 Speaker 2: life to get that's how you learn. I think there's 789 00:39:07,681 --> 00:39:11,721 Speaker 2: big times ahead, there's insight, there's humility, there's a pair 790 00:39:11,761 --> 00:39:13,601 Speaker 2: of people who want to help those in needs. So 791 00:39:13,721 --> 00:39:15,721 Speaker 2: I salute you, and I thank you for your time today. 792 00:39:15,841 --> 00:39:16,561 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. 793 00:39:16,601 --> 00:39:17,161 Speaker 6: Thank you, Edain. 794 00:39:20,281 --> 00:39:23,201 Speaker 2: It's Peter and Belinda Bates. It's quite an extraordinary story, 795 00:39:23,281 --> 00:39:25,001 Speaker 2: and I think there's plenty of people out there who 796 00:39:25,001 --> 00:39:27,721 Speaker 2: are just in the same situation as Peter found himself in, 797 00:39:27,961 --> 00:39:30,161 Speaker 2: and Belinda as well. There are men out there who 798 00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:32,521 Speaker 2: don't even know what they're doing is coercion and control. 799 00:39:33,081 --> 00:39:36,881 Speaker 2: They're going down the same path, which is a terrible outcome. 800 00:39:37,081 --> 00:39:39,521 Speaker 2: It begins with love and ends up with control and 801 00:39:39,961 --> 00:39:42,041 Speaker 2: nastiness and violence. 802 00:39:41,641 --> 00:39:43,201 Speaker 4: And who needs that in life. 803 00:39:43,281 --> 00:39:46,801 Speaker 2: I'm going to put the resources that Peter's creating in 804 00:39:46,881 --> 00:39:48,641 Speaker 2: some links in the show notes. I'd like you to 805 00:39:48,681 --> 00:39:52,481 Speaker 2: access those. But if you're in a dangerous situation with 806 00:39:52,561 --> 00:39:55,121 Speaker 2: your partner, it's up to you to make a change. 807 00:39:55,241 --> 00:39:58,081 Speaker 2: You can call crime Stoppers one hundred, triple three, triple zero, 808 00:39:58,441 --> 00:40:02,481 Speaker 2: call your mum, call somebody, do something, and men, honestly, 809 00:40:03,041 --> 00:40:05,921 Speaker 2: you might be getting away with it. The circle is 810 00:40:05,961 --> 00:40:08,681 Speaker 2: going to close on you eventually. It's time you changed 811 00:40:08,721 --> 00:40:11,641 Speaker 2: your ways. I'd like to hear from other people who 812 00:40:11,681 --> 00:40:15,281 Speaker 2: are in this situation, either as victims or perpetrators. Let's 813 00:40:15,281 --> 00:40:17,801 Speaker 2: have some honesty, let's have some insight. And I think 814 00:40:18,081 --> 00:40:20,921 Speaker 2: what we've heard today is a great example of the 815 00:40:21,081 --> 00:40:24,561 Speaker 2: chains that is possible where people have insight and determination. 816 00:40:25,241 --> 00:40:27,561 Speaker 2: If you'd like to contact me, please Adam shand writer 817 00:40:27,681 --> 00:40:30,841 Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. This has been Adam Shann for 818 00:40:30,881 --> 00:40:32,521 Speaker 2: Real Crime. Thank you for listening.