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Speaker 1: Doctor torkel Farah, Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Paul, so nice to be here.

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Speaker 3: You are, actually, you know what, you are, the second

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Speaker 3: person I've interviewed from Norway, but the first Norwegian. I

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Speaker 3: had interviewed an Australian friend of mine who was living

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Speaker 3: in Norway, but you're actually the first Norwegian living in Norway.

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Speaker 3: This is actually a long overdue podcast topic. I have

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Speaker 3: been wanting to get somebody on to talk about heartbreat variability,

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Speaker 3: and then I discovered you and your book and I thought, oh,

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Speaker 3: I got to get this guy on. But before we

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Speaker 3: get into that, just tell people a little bit about.

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Speaker 1: Your journey, so particularly professional journey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So I'm a general practitioner doctor, emergency physician.

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Speaker 2: So what I do is I work a lot around

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Speaker 2: Norway in smaller communities maybe you know, counties of two

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Speaker 2: thousand people, and I will be on call twenty four

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Speaker 2: to seven, you know, for one or two weeks all

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Speaker 2: the time. So then I can see then the diseases

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Speaker 2: in the society. You know, they get back to me.

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Speaker 2: I give them some medicine and they come back. So

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Speaker 2: I'll get a good view on what makes people sick

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Speaker 2: and what makes them healthy. So this I've been doing

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Speaker 2: as a freelance doctor, as a local doctor as you

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Speaker 2: would say in Australia for twenty five years.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: And also yeah, I combined it with a career as

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Speaker 2: a photographer and a teacher in photography and teaching workshops

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Speaker 2: and so on, so I had kind of parallel careers.

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Speaker 2: And the last ten years I've actually been an author

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Speaker 2: as well, writing books, and I've been writing one book

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Speaker 2: on the Camera Cure and how to use photography therapeutically,

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Speaker 2: and then that actually led into my latest book on

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Speaker 2: the autonomic nervous system. Because as you do photography, you

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Speaker 2: know you're you're hunting, you're gathering, you're using all parts

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Speaker 2: of your nervous system. So I got very interested in

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Speaker 2: the nervous system. And then I got to know this

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Speaker 2: concept of heart rate variability. Just five six years ago,

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Speaker 2: I had never heard of it as a even as

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Speaker 2: a doctor, and understood that heart rate variability is so

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Speaker 2: important for our general health, for preventative healthcare, and now

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Speaker 2: that we have heart rate variability in the wearables that

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Speaker 2: almost everyone is already using, then I wrote the book

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Speaker 2: The Polest Cure on heart rate variability, how to use

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Speaker 2: the wearables, how to use it combined with the best

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Speaker 2: lifestyles changes that we now know is so healthy that

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Speaker 2: can give us like a couple of decades of extra

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Speaker 2: time and extra lifetime. So yeah, so I'm very you know,

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Speaker 2: currently I have the garment watch, the order order ring,

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Speaker 2: whup band. So so I'm just fascinated by this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, interesting, So we will we will dive into

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Speaker 3: a little bit later on the different devices and measurements. Right,

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Speaker 3: So I have had an Apple Watch. I've also used

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Speaker 3: a an over a ring. I also had a biostrap

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Speaker 3: what I'm using in my PhD. But that's for a

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Speaker 3: little bit litter in the podcast, tell us you you

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Speaker 3: did a little stint in Angola with Doctors without Borders.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us a little bit about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in nineteen ninety six, still as a student, I

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Speaker 2: was the first Norwegian to go out with Doctors without

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Speaker 2: Borders with the Norwegian Department of It. I worked in

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Speaker 2: Angola in the war torn country. The had just ended

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Speaker 2: just briefly before that, and I was working in the

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Speaker 2: children's department. I saw two three children dying every day.

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Speaker 2: So it was poverty, it was war wounds, mine injuries,

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Speaker 2: this is where Princess Diana went for her anti mining

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Speaker 2: campaign at the time. And then I just saw the

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Speaker 2: completely different side of the global health system, you know,

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Speaker 2: people starving, war injuries. But the big surprise was for

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Speaker 2: me when I got back home. So when I got

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Speaker 2: back from Angola, that was a big surprise because I

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Speaker 2: was prepared for going to a war torn country and

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Speaker 2: see the misery. The surprise though, was that they had

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Speaker 2: a joy of life. There was so much happiness, some

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Speaker 2: much dancing, some much singing, so many happy people in

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Speaker 2: that environment. Had this just blew my mind. And then

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Speaker 2: when I got back home, I was surprised to see

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Speaker 2: where we have everything. People were unhappy, people were depressed,

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Speaker 2: people were anxious, even though if there was no bombs around,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I just was so curious what is

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Speaker 2: happening here? Because the problem in Angola was quite obvious,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was a war going on. Everybody had

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Speaker 2: lost friends and family. But in Norway, why would we

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Speaker 2: be so unhappy? Why would we need to prescribe sleeping

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Speaker 2: medications and antidepressants and so on, tranquilizers and everything. So

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Speaker 2: I got very curious about that. So that has probably

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Speaker 2: shaped my medical career after that, because my plan was

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Speaker 2: originally to become a war surgeon, you know, to work

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Speaker 2: in for doctors without borders. But now I got more

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Speaker 2: curious about what makes us sick? Why are we so

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Speaker 2: more sicker than ever? You know, even even if you

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Speaker 2: have the opportunities to live wonderful lives, you know, all

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Speaker 2: the opportunities, you know. So that was my learning from

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Speaker 2: from Angola. And I also got like vaccinated against you know, complaining,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you when you had seen these people

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Speaker 2: living under those circumstances.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely I couldn't agree more with that stuff.

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Speaker 3: I think for me, doing a fur bet of travel

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Speaker 3: in third world countries does give you a bit of

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Speaker 3: a vaccination against winging, doesn't it. And it gives you

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Speaker 3: a real sense of gratitude just around the stuff, which

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Speaker 3: I think we have to be consciously aware to continually

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Speaker 3: be grateful for the stuff around our surroundings. Otherwise the

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Speaker 3: human braind just just slips into negativity, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because our ancestors, you know that was looking at

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Speaker 2: what they didn't have, also wants who survive better, So

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Speaker 2: we are kind of prone to be ungrateful and not

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Speaker 2: seeing what we already have so we have to make

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Speaker 2: a conscious effort, you know, to be grateful to see

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Speaker 2: what we already have. You know, I think it's a

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Speaker 2: need to said that we're living like if you're sitting

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Speaker 2: on a test of gold begging. You know, we don't

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Speaker 2: see what we have, you know, And this is just

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Speaker 2: an ancient trait of our nervous system, our brains. So

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Speaker 2: we have to just be smarter than that, you know,

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Speaker 2: and look look for the good things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And look, I have written a book which I

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Speaker 3: think you would like call Death by Comfort, why modern

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Speaker 3: life is killing us and what we need to do

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Speaker 3: about it, right, And it's the fact that we have

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Speaker 3: this ancient genome plunked into a modern world. And if

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Speaker 3: you're a key of man, it's good to seek comfort

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Speaker 3: and be negative and all of that because it really

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Speaker 3: helps with your survival.

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Speaker 1: But when we're in this world where.

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Speaker 3: There's comfort everywhere and opportunities to just to sit on

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Speaker 3: the couch and eat crap food and all of this,

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Speaker 3: and it really doesn't serve as well.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I digress slightly.

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Speaker 3: Let's get back and talk about the nervous system, and

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Speaker 3: particularly our autonomic nervous system. So if you would just

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Speaker 3: step our listeners through the autonomic nervous system what it does,

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Speaker 3: and then we can then take into the parasympathetic and

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Speaker 3: sympathetic branches of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so in the bottom of our brains we have

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Speaker 2: the autonomic nervous system that we share with all vertebrates,

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Speaker 2: you know, all like lizards and mammals and and all

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Speaker 2: kinds of animals. An ancient system that is the on

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Speaker 2: and off system in our in our in our nervous system,

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Speaker 2: and it will innervate all the organs of the body.

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Speaker 2: And then we of course have the parasympathetic system, as

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Speaker 2: you said, mediated by the vagus nerve. And then we

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Speaker 2: have the sympathetic system that activates us, which also goes

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Speaker 2: through the sympathetic you know, chain out all the organs

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Speaker 2: in the body. And the good thing is that heart

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Speaker 2: rate variability can tell us whether we are in the

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Speaker 2: parasympathetic state or in the sympathetic state by something as

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Speaker 2: easy to measure as a heart rate, you know, and

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Speaker 2: the heart rate variability the variation between heart beats and

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Speaker 2: when we are in the parasympathetic RESTful state, the recovery

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Speaker 2: state when we breathe in the heart rate goes up

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Speaker 2: a little bit, and when we breathe out and there's

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Speaker 2: less oxygen in the lungs, the heart will slow down

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Speaker 2: a little bit, save some energy. And this variation between

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Speaker 2: heart beats is measurable by our devices, our variables. But

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Speaker 2: if we're in the stress state, then our ancient body

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Speaker 2: physiology will interpret it as this organism is in danger.

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Speaker 2: We don't know if it will survive, you know, the

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Speaker 2: next minute, so we need to use all available forces

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Speaker 2: even though we are breathing out and there's less oxygen

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Speaker 2: in the lungs, so it will breed. The heart will

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Speaker 2: have a very steady pace in the sympathetic mode, and

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Speaker 2: this of course is sliding scale from deep relaxation until

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Speaker 2: very high stress. And this is what our wearables can

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Speaker 2: pick up then to see whether you are in the

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Speaker 2: stress state in the moment and throughout the day, throughout

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Speaker 2: the weeks and months, whether your stress balance is sustainable,

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Speaker 2: you know, compatible with good health. Because what gives us

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Speaker 2: its estimation is that seventy eighty percent of the diseases

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Speaker 2: and which treat as doctors has a connection to a

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Speaker 2: too high stress level in the society, not necessarily a

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Speaker 2: very big stressor but to slow, you know, a little

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Speaker 2: bit high stress all the time, consistent citizen stress. So

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Speaker 2: to be able to regulate this by seeing your physiological

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Speaker 2: speed in the moment and day and night is so

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Speaker 2: important for us to be able to live healthy.

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Speaker 3: I think, yeah, And I use the kind of analogy

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Speaker 3: when I'm explaining the autonomic nervous system to people that

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Speaker 3: the sympathetic nervous system, which isn't very well named, really

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Speaker 3: is it because it's not very sympathetic. It's about the

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Speaker 3: stress response, right, But I say that's the accelerator of

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Speaker 3: the nervous system, and the parasympathetic is the break as

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Speaker 3: you rightly said, it's that rest, digest, recover. And it's

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Speaker 3: really key that we have balance between those two systems.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: If you don't have enough sympathetic activation, you know, you

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Speaker 3: just you won't get out of bed, you won't be

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Speaker 3: able to mount a stress response, which are an arousal response,

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Speaker 3: which is very necessary for dealing with all of the

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Speaker 3: things of modern life. But it's that ability to again

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Speaker 3: flip into a parasympathetic state that I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of us are really missing, and a lot of people

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Speaker 3: are just in that sympathetic overdrive and as you said,

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Speaker 3: when we spend too much time in a sympathetic state,

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Speaker 3: that is what drives the creation of these stress related diseases.

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Speaker 3: There's a really interesting research paper that was looking at

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Speaker 3: it was publish a number of years ago looking at

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Speaker 3: the the similarities between athlete overtraining syndrome and corporate Bernard

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Speaker 3: and is a really cool research paper. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you've seen it, and if not, I'll flick it

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Speaker 3: to you, but it basically talked about the the etiology

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Speaker 3: or the development of these diseases and the how it presented.

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Speaker 3: So in corporate burnout as well as an athlete over

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Speaker 3: training syndrome, performance dropped, whether it was physical performance or

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Speaker 3: cognitive performance in the In the athlete, there were sleep disturbances,

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Speaker 3: there was sickness, sicknesses and sensitivity to infections, cardiovascular changes,

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Speaker 3: changes in hormones, and more systemic inflammation in both populations.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's got real relevance for us because

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Speaker 3: with an athlete, if an athlete is being trained professionally,

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Speaker 3: they can manipulate the intensity of the workout or the

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Speaker 3: duration of the training, the frequency or the volume, and

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Speaker 3: also the recovery strategies which I think have advanced greatly.

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Speaker 3: But with us, when we're working, we can't manipulate the

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Speaker 3: intensity of our work, the volume of work, the duration,

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Speaker 3: you know, a lot of that is out of our control.

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Speaker 3: So as I say to people, the one two that

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Speaker 3: we have in our toolbox is recovery, and I think

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Speaker 3: that's where our heartbread variability comes in beautifully. So can

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Speaker 3: you just explain in a little bit more detail just

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Speaker 3: how the power sympathetic nervous system is a measure of

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Speaker 3: recovery or heart read variability particularly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, First I will say that the example that

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Speaker 2: you show here about the burnout. You know, if I

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Speaker 2: have twenty patients a day in my practice, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: five of them will be in this burnout situation. So

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Speaker 2: this is a daily occurrence at the doctor's office, and

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Speaker 2: they will usually have been going way too far until

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Speaker 2: they come to the doctor's office. They will have been

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Speaker 2: struggling for maybe a year or a half year before that,

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Speaker 2: and what they could have seen from using the weariables,

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Speaker 2: they would have seen that their heart rate variability is

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Speaker 2: lower as a symptom that they are under too much strain.

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Speaker 2: And it's often you know, lack of sleep, stress, anxiety,

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Speaker 2: and it's a vicious circle, you know, because when they

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Speaker 2: sleep worse, then they get more stress during the day

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Speaker 2: and they will tend to have a lower build power,

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Speaker 2: which is also coupled to heart rate variability. So they

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Speaker 2: will eat crab food, you know, to keep going. They

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Speaker 2: will need to drink coffee, you know, so they will

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Speaker 2: again disturb their sleep. So it's like a like a

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Speaker 2: whirling you know, situations where where they go down in

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Speaker 2: a vicious, vicious circle.

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Speaker 1: And they exercise as well, they exercise.

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Speaker 2: Exercise, exercise less, you know, so the first thing they

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Speaker 2: will cut down is exercise and sleep and rest exactly

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Speaker 2: what they need to get out of this situation, you know.

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Speaker 2: So so this will then show, as I said, in

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Speaker 2: heart rate variability, So I can often then if I

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Speaker 2: see that my patients use a wearable, I can just okay,

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Speaker 2: give me your phone, and I can show them the

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Speaker 2: development of this stress situation. And as doctors, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's so so useful for us to be able to

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Speaker 2: see this because we have no laboratory test, no radiological

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Speaker 2: test for this situation. The only thing that can demonstrate

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Speaker 2: the effect of this stress is heart rate variability. So

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Speaker 2: it's such a useful tool. So I'm so happy that

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Speaker 2: more and more doctors become aware of this and that

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Speaker 2: they can use it. I'm surprised that it took so

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Speaker 2: long for us to understand that the heart rate could

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Speaker 2: have such a diagnostic value, you know, the heart the

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Speaker 2: heart rate kind of responding to everything. You know, we

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Speaker 2: really should have known it a lot earlier. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: it will would have shown this situation. And if they

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Speaker 2: have then been coming earlier to find the recovery, you know,

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Speaker 2: to use breath work, to use cold, the water immersion,

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Speaker 2: you know, to use naps and sleep and all that,

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Speaker 2: they would have seen their hard rate variability improve and

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Speaker 2: go up, and they may have been able to avoid

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Speaker 2: this because so much of what stresses us it comes

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Speaker 2: from a surprising source. You know, you could be alcohol,

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Speaker 2: because the same person we'd probably you know, after having

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Speaker 2: all these cups of coffee, you know, we'd be using

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Speaker 2: one or two glasses of wine to try to wind

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Speaker 2: down and thinking that they are calming down, but that

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Speaker 2: would just create more stress. You know that you would

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Speaker 2: see on the weariables, and so they will be able

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Speaker 2: to identify what stresses them outside the obvious stress, because

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Speaker 2: what we have found is that most of the stress

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Speaker 2: sources come from other things. And what we generally think

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Speaker 2: of as mental stress is poor food. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: it's junk food, its ultra processed food, is like candy,

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Speaker 2: it's like crisps, eating late at night, you know, all

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Speaker 2: these kind of things. So when you start seeing this

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Speaker 2: on your on your monitor, then you are able to

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Speaker 2: to to regulate it and to avoid getting into that situation.

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Speaker 3: So so you know, the first profound insight that I had,

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Speaker 3: I was using a heart rate variability monitor and it

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Speaker 3: was very early days and those that none of the

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Speaker 3: warribles had them, and I had. I was using a

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Speaker 3: heart rate monitor with an app that that actually I

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Speaker 3: would have to connect to it, and I was taking

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Speaker 3: my morning heart rate variability. I can't even remember the

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Speaker 3: name of the app, but there was a week where

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Speaker 3: my heart rate veriability.

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Speaker 1: Was really good. It was green, green, green, and then

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Speaker 1: it just went red.

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Speaker 3: So the app was giving you, you know, whether you're

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Speaker 3: training up or down, and it dropped massively and then

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Speaker 3: went green and green, and then another couple of days

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Speaker 3: later dropped massively. And then I looked back and I

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Speaker 3: thought well, why what what was that? And I then

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Speaker 3: remembered the first one was when we had a young

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Speaker 3: baby and I was on night Judy feeding him with

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Speaker 3: the bottle and he was up all night and I

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Speaker 3: had a terrible night's sleep and I saw it just

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Speaker 3: plummet and then recovered the.

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Speaker 1: Next few days. And then I looked back at.

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Speaker 3: The second one was when the British Scenaris Lions rugby

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Speaker 3: team were touring Australia and I went out into Melbourne

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Speaker 3: with the maids and had a night on drinking alcohol

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Speaker 3: and crap sleep and that had a horrendous effect on

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Speaker 3: my heart ability. So I am totally in sync with

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Speaker 3: you that it is a real window into how your

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Speaker 3: nervous system is coping with all sorts of different stressors.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's the key thing for people to understand, right.

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Speaker 2: If you have the only wind is the only window.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Other than subjective feeling, which a lot of people can't have,

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Speaker 3: but this whole idea that.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you have one day where your heart.

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Speaker 3: Rate variability drops, that is either saying you had a

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Speaker 3: really hard workout yesterday that you're not recovered from physically,

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Speaker 3: or a hard day psychologically or your recovery. Your sleep

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Speaker 3: was bad because of all those things we talked about.

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Speaker 3: And if it's bad over a period a week or more,

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Speaker 3: that is a sign that stress is loading your body

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Speaker 3: right negatively. And as I said to people, if you

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Speaker 3: see someone with low heart rate variability for months, it's

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Speaker 3: one of the best predictors of an impending heart attack,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And all kinds of other diseases as well. So

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Speaker 2: I think I heard on some other podcasts that we

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Speaker 2: cannot really tolerate high stress or a period of more

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Speaker 2: than two or three months, then something will happen. You know,

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Speaker 2: you could get cancer, heart disease, or immune diseases and

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Speaker 2: so many diseases because your immune system is down. The

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Speaker 2: immunologist Jenna Machioki has written wonderful books on the immune

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Speaker 2: system and has gone through the immunology chapters in my book,

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Speaker 2: says that hearteed variability is an indirect measure of the

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Speaker 2: quality of the immune system, so that because the immune

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Speaker 2: system is kind of malleable, that it's kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: maintenance is what goes first. You know, if a business

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Speaker 2: gets into trouble, you know, you cut down on maintenance

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Speaker 2: and it's kind of the same in the body as well.

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Speaker 2: If you're under strained from a lot of other things,

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Speaker 2: the immune system and the quality of the immune system

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Speaker 2: goes first, you know, the natural killer cells in the blood,

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Speaker 2: you know, and the circulating immune system will go down

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Speaker 2: because the to prioritize you know, immediate survival, you know,

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Speaker 2: or the instance tactics for it.

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Speaker 3: On that point, the classic wound healing studies would be

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Speaker 3: and I remember ones done on university students around exam time,

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Speaker 3: and they would bring them in early in the semester

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Speaker 3: and use this little device to put a one or

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Speaker 3: two centimeter long cut in their body and with a

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Speaker 3: particular specific depth, and then they would come in every

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Speaker 3: day and they'd measure how quickly that it healed, and

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Speaker 3: then they would do it again an exam time, and

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Speaker 3: they found that wound healing took longer an exam time.

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Speaker 3: And that's because of the psychological stress impacting the immune system.

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Speaker 1: Exactly what you said, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so, and this is why I know it's

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Speaker 2: so important to be aware of this and then that

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Speaker 2: we ourselves have this instrument, because theiggest shift here is

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Speaker 2: not only from reactive medicine, until proactive medicine. But it's

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Speaker 2: taken the power of your health from the healthcare system

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Speaker 2: into your own hands literally, and from only knowing what

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Speaker 2: is going on, you know, by the doctor's word every

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Speaker 2: three months, until that you understand this yourself. You know

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Speaker 2: all the time, you know in real time. So this

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Speaker 2: is a way that you can control the quality of

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Speaker 2: your immune system indirectly through heart rate variability.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, we will get into manipulating in a

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Speaker 3: little bit, but I just wanted to talk about particularly

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Speaker 3: the impact on mental health of stress, and that was

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Speaker 3: really brought home to us. I mean I understood that

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Speaker 3: as a physiologist in neuroscientist for years, but a couple

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Speaker 3: of years ago, my twelve year old at the time

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Speaker 3: got diagnosed with Cushion's disease, which you will be familiar with,

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Speaker 3: but many people won't. You know, it's a very rare

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Speaker 3: disease one in a million adults, one in five to

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Speaker 3: ten million kids, and a tumor on the petuitary grand

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Speaker 3: that hypersecretes act hits, which tells the adrenals to hyper

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Speaker 3: secrete cortisol. And two things happened. Two things happened. How

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Speaker 3: we noticed something was wrong was his mental health, which

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Speaker 3: had been brilliant his whole life, massively deteriorated in a

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Speaker 3: short period of time with no explanation whatsoever, none whatsoever.

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Speaker 3: And it was only when my wife showed me a

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Speaker 3: photograph of him three months apart and I saw it,

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Speaker 3: I went, shit, that's cortisol because he had developed a

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Speaker 3: moon face. And I didn't notice here because you're living

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Speaker 3: with them every day. But the other thing that happened

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Speaker 3: with the cushions disease is he started developing fungal infections

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Speaker 3: in his toe, and that is the suppression.

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Speaker 1: Of the immune system, right. But it just really brought.

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Speaker 3: Home to me the massive, massive impact of stress on

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Speaker 3: people's mental health. And I wish we'd have been doing

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Speaker 3: it the time. But if we'd have measured his heartbeat variability,

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Speaker 3: we would.

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Speaker 2: See would have seen it. You would have seen it, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And the first place that I heard about heart rate

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Speaker 2: variability was I was reading the book of Bessel founder

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Speaker 2: Kolk The Body keeps the Score, you know, the probably

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Speaker 2: one of the worldwide best setters. And that's the first

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Speaker 2: place I heard that. American psychiatry, they used heard veriability

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Speaker 2: as a measure of the mental state. If the patients

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Speaker 2: were all accessible for treatment, you know, because if their

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Speaker 2: heart rate variability was very low, and then it was

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Speaker 2: no use starting a discussion, you know, because they would

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Speaker 2: not be in the right place for that, in a

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Speaker 2: receptive state for that. So they would wait until the

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Speaker 2: heart rate veriability was better and then they could talk,

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Speaker 2: you know, because because also is if you are in

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Speaker 2: the stress state, the connection to your prefrontal cortex is poorer.

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Speaker 2: You don't have the good enough access to your thinking brain,

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Speaker 2: you know. And that's probably what everybody can can know,

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Speaker 2: you know intuitively that if you've been in a stress state,

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Speaker 2: you make poorer choices and you're not thinking clearly. So

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Speaker 2: so it's important to get this because so many people

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Speaker 2: often in the book, I write that you often think

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Speaker 2: is it physical or is it mental? You know, but

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Speaker 2: is it physiological? That may be the more importance question.

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Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of the saying that physiology drives

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Speaker 3: psychology and psychology drives physiology.

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Speaker 1: Right there is exactly you.

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Speaker 3: Know, trying to separate those two things, right like as

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Speaker 3: if as if the brain and mind is completely separate

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Speaker 3: to the nervous system. It's just crazy, right, completely bonkers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and we'll put too much us wait on

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Speaker 2: talking our way out of problems, you know. So the

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Speaker 2: way because what happens if you're in a physiological poor

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Speaker 2: state is that this will give you thoughts. But the

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Speaker 2: solution to this is not talking, you know, the solution

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Speaker 2: can be getting your physiology right and these thoughts will disappear, yes,

436
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 2: from getting into a better stress balance.

437
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so look, let's not dig into it a

438
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 3: little bit for people in terms of so just to

439
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 3: recap a little bit for people, because you dig over

440
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 3: quite quickly. It's it's the time interval between our heartbeats,

441
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 3: when the heart is beating and the blood is pumping.

442
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 3: That time interval. A lot of people think, if you're

443
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: a heart rate resting heartbread at a sixty beats a minute,

444
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: that it's once a second.

445
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: And if that's the key is, then you're in big trouble. Right.

446
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: There should be.

447
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: Those little minute variability between the heartbeat. So that's what

448
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 3: we're talking about, and that's why devices can pick it

449
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: up because they're pretty damn good at measuring our our

450
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 3: heart rate and therefore our heart rate variability. They get

451
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 3: less accurate at very high heartbreats. You know, at at

452
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 3: high exercise level. But that's you know that that's native

453
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: here and the there are. It's really about using those

454
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 3: devices to measure it. And so I noticed you have

455
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: a garment, you have an ore ring, and you also

456
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 3: have a wopland. Have you noticed because and I think

457
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: it's important for our listeners to understand how they measure it.

458
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: You know, the world of heart rate variabilities, you'll know,

459
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: is very very complicated. There's there's high frequency, there's low frequency.

460
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 3: There's our M S S D and all of these things. Now,

461
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: most of the devices I think use r A M

462
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 3: S S D except Apple Watch, right, yes, and they

463
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: and they use different A lot of them don't give

464
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: you the raw data and they'll they'll use their own algorithms.

465
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 3: And I think the widbine will give you a readiness stick.

466
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: Just just talk us through a little bit how these devices,

467
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: how they present the information and what are you looking for?

468
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: In those different devices?

469
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: They will present information. Most of them will give you

470
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: like a sleep score based on how riskful you have

471
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: been sleeping, whether the sleep faces you know with deep

472
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: sleep and sleep have been okay, and then they will

473
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: give another measure of your readiness. The Garment has the

474
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: body battery system that I think is superior, and it

475
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: comes not from Garment Bit, it comes from First Bit.

476
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: So Garment has bought the algorithms from First Bit and

477
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: put them into their ways, so that that's the secret

478
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: to it. So the body battery system, so it will

479
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: give you you can see in the morning how much

480
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: battery do you have and in the evening how much

481
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: battery do you have left you? So that's a very

482
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: good way to measure it.

483
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: Is that is that battery a combination of HRV and

484
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: sleep or is it just HRV.

485
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: Mostly mostly HRV. Yeah, So you will get two separate

486
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: scores kind of the body battery and the SEP score,

487
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: and the same with AURA and the whoop. They will

488
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: give you a readiness in the morning. Yeah, the whoop

489
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: will say recovery and the Aura will say readiness and

490
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: I will and that's the only score you get kind of.

491
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: So so this morning I think I got eighty five

492
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: on on both of them, and then they will not

493
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: have kind of a readiness in the evening, so you

494
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: won't get that score, and they will have a sleep score.

495
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: So if you don't want to kind of have the

496
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: access to the exact score you know, throughout the day,

497
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: then the order ring and the whoop band is good,

498
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: you know, you check it in the morning, and you

499
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: check it again in the evening. The whoop band actually

500
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 2: have Also they will measure the strain throughout the day,

501
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: so you will get a measure of how much strain

502
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: you are putting on yourself throughout the day, and it

503
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: will tell you, okay, now that's enough strain. You know,

504
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: you shouldn't do anything more, or it can tell you okay,

505
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: you can you can put on some extra exercise today

506
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: because you have not strained yourself so much. So they

507
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: will give you these numbers from the heart a variability

508
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: and sleep and a bit different fashion, you know, And

509
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: that is I think is useful.

510
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Apple watch the note just gives you

511
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: straight HRV. Do you know, I'm not sure if you

512
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: know the answer to this question. So I be much

513
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 3: more interested in waking HRV the stuff from say the

514
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: whip band, where it's looking at at readiness throughout the day.

515
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: Does it differentiate between whether I'm stress psychologically or I'm exercising.

516
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: That was always my question with these things, right.

517
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: It will not whether it's exercise mental stress or food

518
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: stress or alcohol stress or whatever it will it will

519
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: give the same results. You know, it will look looks

520
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: the same. So if I've been drinking alcohol or if

521
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: I'm having a dinner with lots of chili in it,

522
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: you know that I find out that is a big

523
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: stress for me, it will look the same. The key

524
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: to that the garmen. You will be able to see that. Okay,

525
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: the stress that you had was from one o'clock until

526
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: three o'clock, for example, and then you can identify so

527
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: much easier. Okay, it was this factor that that was

528
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: a problem. It was a meeting will take dismus energy

529
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: from me, you know, or a lecture or whatever you have.

530
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: So so we'll also have they have a kind of

531
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: daytime stress also, but it's not as accurate. I find

532
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: that the garment watch out.

533
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: So so yeah, look, we know there's there's lots of

534
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 3: different devices and and and as you rightly said, they

535
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: have their their own algorithms. The one I used for

536
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 3: my PhD was something called biostrap one because it was

537
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 3: just purely focused around HRV.

538
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: But two things that I really liked about it. One

539
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: is it give me the raw.

540
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: Data, which I can use in my pH D, which

541
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: Apple and garment wouldn't give me that. But secondly, you

542
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: can wake up in the morning and just press the

543
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: button and do a spot check and get your waking

544
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: HRV right there. Now, I can kind of do that,

545
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: and you could probably do it as well just looking

546
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: at your your Apple watch or your garment right there

547
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 3: in and of the moment. But this actually does a

548
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: sort of a three minute spot check. Do you find

549
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: there's any value of that? Do you mean, do you

550
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: put more emphasis on morning HRV on the average HRV

551
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: throughout the day? What's what you're thinking on this?

552
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, So my thinking of it is that when you

553
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: just measure it like that in the morning, it's kind

554
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: of like you go to the store and you're big

555
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: do a big shopopping and the only result you get

556
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: is the total at the bottom. You don't know what

557
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: anything costs. You know, you don't know if egg is

558
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: egg expensive, or meat or alcohol or toilet paper. You know,

559
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: you don't have the itemized some you know of the

560
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: of the prices. So the important thing is to have

561
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: a device to measure it throughout the day that can

562
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: give you graphs or where the stress was and when

563
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: you were relaxing, because then you can see, okay, I

564
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: need to do less of this and more of that, you.

565
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: Know, more insights, right, more insights.

566
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 3: And I think that's where Garmin probably really art performs.

567
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 1: The Apple Watch.

568
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: Or the Apple Watch can do it because they have

569
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: There is one app called the Athletic, you know, the

570
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: combination between athlete and analytic. Athletic that that is quite good.

571
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: It will give you a graph, you know, like twenty

572
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: four hours graph that looks very much like the Garment one.

573
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: I think that is the closest clostage you can get

574
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: with an Apple Watch. So it's the way they presented

575
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 2: and this is the system of first bit. You know,

576
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 2: for the first couple of years tracking my HRV, I

577
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: used an ECG device, first beat device, and I could

578
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: see that once I understood that they had the same

579
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: system in the watches, I used it parallel. And then

580
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: I saw that the Garment you know had you know,

581
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: it was so accurate that I could put them on

582
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 2: top of each other, so I could have found that

583
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: there's no use to use the CCG device, you know,

584
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 2: it's much more cumbersome to use.

585
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 3: Of course, Yeah, that actually reminds me when you were

586
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: we were talking about Actually I was looking at first

587
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 3: peed for my PhD as well, but you just reminded

588
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: me of a very cool study and if you haven't

589
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: seen it, I'll flick it. It was looking at soldiers

590
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 3: who were going through a selection for special Forces training,

591
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 3: which as you will know, is very very very stressful.

592
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 3: And what they did is that the at the end

593
00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: of it, they go through interrogation training, which I had

594
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 3: been through a shorter version when I was in the military.

595
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 3: But they wired them up with those devices and they

596
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 3: looked at their autonomic nervous system throughout that stressful period,

597
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 3: and then afterwards they went back and they analyzed the data.

598
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: Right.

599
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 3: So at the end of that, that's the very last

600
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: part of selection training, which is a six month process

601
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: in the UK, right, and it's very very stressful, and

602
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 3: what and they get a straight pass or feel right there.

603
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 3: And what they did is they went back and looked

604
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: at the data and they found that the elite of

605
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: the elite, the guys who passed all of them, were

606
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 3: in a more of a higher vagal tone parasympathetic state

607
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 3: at rest. And then as soon as they knew something

608
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 3: was about to happen, boom, they switched into sympathetic drive

609
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 3: and they maintained that sympathetic drive throughout the I don't

610
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 3: know is twelve hours or whatever of the high stressful period,

611
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 3: but then as soon as that stress finished, they flipped

612
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: back into parasympathetic states. So I often with the with

613
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 3: the nervous the autonomic nervous system set of people, it's

614
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: the ability to engage, mentee and then disengage the stress

615
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: response that's critical because lots of people don't have an

616
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: issue with engaging, but it's when they get home at night,

617
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: they've had a stressful day, they're working late at night,

618
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: they close their laptop, they think I'm going to be

619
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 3: asleep in two minutes, they hit the bed and their

620
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 3: head just goes on fire. Right, It's that inability to

621
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: turn off that's that's really important.

622
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: Ability to turn off, right.

623
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And there's so much research that the military

624
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: has done, you know, both in the US and probably

625
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: in the UK because they're so dependent on soldiers that

626
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: are in the balance, you know that can that can

627
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: turn off, so that you know, the military have breathing

628
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 2: exercise says that they can do to quickly come into

629
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: the part sympathetic mode to rest, you know. So that

630
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: is so much research coming out from the from the military.

631
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: So and now you know they use the same for

632
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: the athletes. Also that the key to becoming a great

633
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: athlete is the way that you recovered.

634
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: So that.

635
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: So they use you know, cold water immersion, breathing exercises,

636
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: just sleeping and resting and napping, you know. So it

637
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: seems like the ones who are best to kind of

638
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: turn themselves off and come into recovery, they are the

639
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: ones who will will perform better.

640
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 3: And on that point, Toko, I remember Jim Lower, who

641
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 3: was a performance psychologist, used to work with a lot

642
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 3: of elite tennis players and he showed, having wired up

643
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 3: the tennis players you might be familiar with this, that

644
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: the best of the best, the ones in the top ten,

645
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 3: were able to reduce their heart reate between points ten

646
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: to twenty bits more than the people outside the top ten.

647
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: So to your point, is that ability to recover momentarily

648
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 3: as well as I talk about micro recovery and macro recovery.

649
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so your ability you know, to to rest, you know,

650
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: maybe throughout the day, you know, if you have an

651
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 2: office worker or whatever, to take you know, one minute

652
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 2: or so with breathing exercises to calm yourself down, close

653
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 2: your eyes. You know that I think would be so

654
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 2: important to regulate it. And of course when you see

655
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: it in real time on your watch, you know, it's

656
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: so much easier to be motivated to do this when

657
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: you see the results in real time, because we're not

658
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: You mentioned that you could feel your stress level, but

659
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: we're not really equipped to do that. You know, from

660
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: our physiology, our senses have throughout history been directed outwards

661
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: to the outward threats, you know, to animals, to enemies,

662
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: to contaminated food. You know, you could smell threats, you know,

663
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: from other animals and so on, and the attention to

664
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 2: your own inner state would just be in the way

665
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 2: of these senses. So, you know, we can really feel

666
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 2: our heart. I would not know if my heart rate

667
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: is sixty or eighty five. You know, I'm concentrated on

668
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 2: living my lives, you know, and talking to you or

669
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: whatever I'm doing, and I cannot estimate my own heart rate.

670
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: And that tells you. Because we can see like like thousands,

671
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: if not millions, shades of green. You know, I think

672
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: our sense of smell has like trillions or different different smells.

673
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: So we have very very good good senses. You can hear,

674
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: you know, to breaking it a far away. But whether

675
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: we have sixty or eighty five in our heart rate,

676
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: we don't know, And that represents a very big difference

677
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: in stress level and function.

678
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 3: That's a great point actually that I didn't really consider

679
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: is our interoception is pretty poor compared to our judgment

680
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: and awareness of external stressors. Now, interestingly, people who meditate

681
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 3: and tend to who do it as a practice, they

682
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: tend to get better at inter reception. Have you seen

683
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 3: any data about meditators and heart rate variability?

684
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: You know, are they connected.

685
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: Or is it just that they're they're they're connected? But

686
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: it depends, you know, how you feel. Because I see

687
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 2: that a lot of people get stressed by meditation. So

688
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: if you put one hundred random people and say that

689
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 2: you're not going to meditate for twenty minutes every day

690
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 2: for two weeks, and we see what happens, a certain

691
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: percentage of them would have great use of it. A

692
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: certain percentage would just be stressed by it.

693
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: You know.

694
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: Now, when you get the results back as a doctor,

695
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: you get the average, but the average has nothing to

696
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: say how you are reacting to it. So these devices

697
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: will tell you a personalized version of what happens when

698
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: you do this or that, you know, because a lot

699
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 2: of people just get stressed by it if they're not

700
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: used to it, of course, if they are trained.

701
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to meditate and I can't get rid

702
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 3: of my thoughts and it's stressing me out, which brings

703
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: us nicely into breathing because I'm not a good meditator

704
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 3: at all, but I can do breath work and I

705
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 3: find that it has the same impact. And actually Andrew

706
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 3: Hubertman's lab showed they did a study where they got

707
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 3: a bunch of people doing one of three different types

708
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 3: of breath work or meditation for five minutes a day,

709
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: and they measured positive and negative affect and they showed

710
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 3: that all the breathing types were slightly superior to meditation.

711
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 3: So talk and I would imagine it's a heart rate

712
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 3: variability impact. Talk to us about different types of breathing

713
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: that we can do around our heart rate variability. And

714
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 3: I'm interested whether you have a preference for any type

715
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 3: of controlled breathing.

716
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: Hmm.

717
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 2: I think the most important is to breathe slowly. There

718
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 2: are lots of different techniques, you know, like four seconds in,

719
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: hold the breath for seven seconds, then bring out eight seconds. Yeah,

720
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: so this is complicated. There's like box breathing, you know,

721
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: four seconds in, hold, hold for four seconds, four seconds out,

722
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: and so on. But I find that the simplest one,

723
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 2: you know, is the easiest one. So breathing five seconds in,

724
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 2: five seconds out, you know, or six seconds in for

725
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: four seconds in six seconds out. You know, that is

726
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: the outbreadth is a bit longer. It's supposed to be

727
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: better for the heart rate variability. The most important, I

728
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: think is to do it, you know, and to do

729
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 2: it in a way that feels good for you. Because

730
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: the coherent breadth is supposed to be be an individual

731
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: length of breadth. You know, it's somewhere around six breadths

732
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 2: a minute, but you can often feel it. You will

733
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: feel better when you get into the rhythm that is

734
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 2: yours and that seems to be the same rhythm throughout

735
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 2: your life.

736
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: You know.

737
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of variation there, and I'm sure

738
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: there are different devices that will help you to find

739
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: the exact one, but I think there you can also

740
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: feel it. So my favorite is four seconds in six

741
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: seconds out somewhere close to that, then I feel calmer.

742
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, mine is exactly the same.

743
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 3: I think it's worthwhile double clicking on resonant frequency breathing

744
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 3: or coherence breathing, because I think for our listeners understanding

745
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 3: the projections of the vegus nerve into the heart and

746
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 3: the lungs, and the understanding that by breathing in certain

747
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 3: rhythms and when you sink your breathing to your heart rate,

748
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: we get this coherence and really good activation of the

749
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 3: vegus nerve of the parasympathetic nervous system. And as you

750
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 3: rightly pointed out, everybody's just slightly unique, but six breaths

751
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 3: a minute seems to be a kind of a catch

752
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 3: all that the vast majority of people will get really

753
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 3: good benefits. I think most people are. I think everybody's

754
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 3: between four and a half and seven breaths a minute

755
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 3: from one paper that I read. But just talk a

756
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 3: little bit more about that kind of coherence and the

757
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 3: importance of that.

758
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 2: Well, the most important is that it activates the vagus

759
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: nerve in the best possible way. This is our liver

760
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: into the sympathetic system too. To make sure that our

761
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: vagal tone is better, that our vagus nerve that rigged

762
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: down regulates you know, the different organs in the body

763
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: is working optimally, and that is is so important, you know.

764
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: So it's fascinating also that we're able to control the

765
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: most important nerve in our body that goes from our

766
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: brainstem into all the organs of the body. So so

767
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: that is that is my thoughts on it. Anyway, I'm

768
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: not sure if it was the answer. Yeah, no, no, no.

769
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 3: I think look for for me, this understanding that we

770
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 3: can intentionally modulate our vegus nerve, I think is just

771
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: a huge leaked forward in people being able to manage

772
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 3: their own health, and it's really underscoring for people. I

773
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 3: think any type of slow control breathing is really effective

774
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 3: at doing this, but that as you breathe in, your

775
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: sympathetic nervous system slightly upregulates, and people can actually can

776
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 3: actually do this. If you've got a heart rate monitor

777
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 3: on sometimes with a watch, you can see it. If

778
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 3: you do a long breath in, you'll see your heartbeat

779
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 3: go up one or two beats, and then you do

780
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 3: a really long breath out and you'll see your heartbeat

781
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 3: drop four or five beats sometimes, and that's just looking

782
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 3: at that little slight activation of the sympathetic nervous system

783
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 3: on the breath in and then the parasympathetic That's why

784
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 3: I've always found I've always been curious why people talk

785
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 3: about resident frequency breathing and just breathe five and five.

786
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, why wouldn't you do in for four and

787
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: out for six. It just to me makes so much

788
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: more sense, right, yeah.

789
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever you do, because some people will have difficulties,

790
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, counting or I think the most important, you know,

791
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 2: is just to do it and to slow down your

792
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 2: breath because it's an ancient single to your nervous system

793
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: that it's calm outside. You know, we can relax, the

794
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 2: immune system can can kind of stand back and and

795
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: and start the recovery. So close your eyes, you know,

796
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: breathe slowly, preferably close to six breaths a minute, and

797
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: you will have done a huge impact for your stress level.

798
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 2: Do it like in microdoses throughout the day, or in

799
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: five minutes in the morning and five minutes in the

800
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: evening before you go to sleep. If you wake up

801
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night, you know, and often

802
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 2: you you will be stressed. Often, you will have had

803
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 2: Actually I've been using a continuous blood glucose meter monitor

804
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: and then I can see that I often wake up

805
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 2: after a very low blood sugar and then you have

806
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: a cortisol. You have a lot of stress, you know,

807
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 2: and and and then you can use this technique to

808
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 2: calm yourself down also in the night.

809
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, much more effective than counting sheep, I think. And

810
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 3: let's let's talk about other ways that we can modulate

811
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 3: our vegus nerve activity. So I've read some interesting research

812
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 3: around high intensity interval training. You do it regularly can

813
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 3: impact positively on your heart rate variability. And the analogy

814
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 3: that I used to people, if you think about when

815
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 3: you're doing high intensity and of training, when you're on

816
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 3: the work fees, you're pressing the accelerator, and then when

817
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 3: you're in the recovery fee is you're pressing the brick.

818
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 3: So you're actually training the system to work really well.

819
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 3: What's your thoughts on on a exercise and be any

820
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 3: other there are ways that you recommend for people to

821
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 3: positively impact their their vagus nerve and part sympathetic nervous system.

822
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so exercise is probably one of the most important

823
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: things you can do to get a lower heart rate

824
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: variability and a better a lower heart rate and a

825
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 2: better heart rate variability. Yeah so, and the high intensity

826
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 2: interval training is probably good. Any training is good, you know,

827
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 2: compared to nothing. So, and it's also important to take

828
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: into consideration your VO two max because the garment watches

829
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: will give you a VO two max. And if that

830
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 2: is kind of thirty or below, then any exercise will

831
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 2: result in inflammation in your body that can take days

832
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: to recover from because there's too much lack acid, you know.

833
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: So then I can see that unfit people when they

834
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: are very eager to get training, you know, go all

835
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: in and train too hard. You know, they will be

836
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: demotivated because they will train hard, get a lot of

837
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: elactic acid. It will take four days for them for

838
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 2: the inflammation to go over. But if you have a

839
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: good BIO two max maybe forty forty five, then you

840
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: can do the same exercise and you will be recovered

841
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 2: by the next day. So gardment has this excellent. It

842
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: will give you after the training session. It will give

843
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 2: you a recovery time that I try to keep below

844
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 2: one day that I will be recovered until the next day.

845
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: And that is also you know andrews ericson the big

846
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: study on the Berlin Philharmonics, you know, they you would

847
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: say that the key to getting good performance is to

848
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: be able to recover to the next day from your strain.

849
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 2: The first day, whether it's playing the violin or working

850
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 2: or whatever, you should recover until the next day.

851
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.

852
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:15,720
Speaker 3: So it's it's about modulating your training intensity to your

853
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 3: your fitness levels, right, yeah, because you know, as the

854
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 3: athletes know, if they have a really brutal session, their

855
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 3: heartbeat variability is very low the next day. And lots

856
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 3: of professional athletes or their their their training systems, well,

857
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 3: when the heartbeat variability is too low, they'll have a

858
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:36,919
Speaker 3: recovery day.

859
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

860
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 2: And the best athletes, you know, they train eighty percent

861
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 2: of their exercises in zone two and only twenty percent

862
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: is in zone four or five.

863
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: You know.

864
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 2: So a lot of amateurs, you know that they think that, Okay,

865
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 2: if I don't train so often, you know, at least

866
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: I have to train hard once I do it, you know.

867
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: But that's wrong, and they will they will just be

868
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: a tire and the training after HRV and your recovery

869
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 2: seems to you seem to be able to train less

870
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: and get better results. You know, you probably have more

871
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: research on that now, would guess yeah.

872
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 3: I it's very interesting what you said there, and it's

873
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 3: something I read that quite recently as well, that even

874
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 3: the world's best endurance athletes eighty percent of their time.

875
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: Is spent in zone two.

876
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 3: So for our listeners, zone two is sixty to seventy

877
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: percent of your heart rate max. And some different people

878
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 3: quanti fact slightly differently, but most people would say sixty

879
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 3: to seventy, and then zone four is eighty to ninety.

880
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 3: Zone five is ninety two one hundred. Traditionally, I've been

881
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 3: go harder, go home, and only realized recently that's not

882
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 3: actually the best way to train. So I've been guilty

883
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 3: of that. You know, when you exercise, you got to

884
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 3: go hard, And it's only when very recently reading that

885
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: about even the world's best endurance athletes most of their

886
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 3: time is spent at zone two. I historically have not

887
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 3: put enough emphasis on zone two because it's really useful

888
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: for your overall health of your mitochondria, right, and when

889
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 3: you're just going too hard too often, you're just straining

890
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 3: the system.

891
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I used to be an athlete

892
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 2: on the national team in kayaking, you know, in my youth,

893
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: and we were going all in every day. You know,

894
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: that was either full speed or it was only full speed.

895
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: It was never nothing, so it was full speed all

896
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: the time. So that was probably not a very good

897
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 2: idea to exercise. So this is a great tool to

898
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: be able to regulate our exercise for top performance, because

899
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 2: because training very hard is not good for our health.

900
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 2: It's not good for our hearts. It makes for stiffer hearts,

901
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 2: small cardiac damage and stiffer arteries and so on. If

902
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 2: they measure after a marathon, they will see that almost

903
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 2: half of the runners will have cardiac damage. They will

904
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: have troping in the levels in their blood as a

905
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: sign of small micro tears in their heart. And if

906
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 2: they don't allow enough time to recover and they start

907
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 2: training hard, you know, within the next two or three days,

908
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 2: then this will not recover properly. So this is why

909
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 2: athletes is not they are not living longer than other people.

910
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: The ones who are living longer, they are just doing

911
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: natural They're walking there in natural movement, you know, like

912
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 2: in the blue zones around the world.

913
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 1: So you don't.

914
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 3: Sorry, I was just going to say, you know, particularly

915
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 3: a lot of endurance athletes, I think they just do

916
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 3: too much. I mean, to your point, when you look

917
00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 3: at the optimal doses for exercise and from a longevity perspective,

918
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 3: it's kind of ten hours a week, and then you

919
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 3: really start to lose some of the benefits. And to

920
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 3: your point, are very the ones who are doing the

921
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 3: most actually, and they more than lose the benefits, they

922
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,959
Speaker 3: start to create damage and often no longer than people

923
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 3: who only do little bits of exercise.

924
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: Right.

925
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a U shaped curve, you know, so that

926
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 2: the ones who exercise more than not it may only

927
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: be like twelve forteen hours a week, they have the

928
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: same level of health as the one who are not exercising. Yeah,

929
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 2: it's somewhere around those numbers. It's amazing effect.

930
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard.

931
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 2: It's hard, yeah, and we're not made for that, you know.

932
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: So our immune system, our ancient immune system would would think,

933
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't think, of course, it kind of

934
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: more reacts. But historically the only situations where people were

935
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: running that much would be in in the situations of war,

936
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 2: you know, of terrible desperate situations. They would never run

937
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: or strain themselves so much so our immune system is

938
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: not made for those kind of exercise and strain on

939
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: our bodies. When they put wearables on hunter gatherers, they

940
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 2: see that they are in moderate activity two or three

941
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 2: hours a day, some bursts in between, and then they relax.

942
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 2: So this is what we are physiologically made for, constructed

943
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 2: for throughout the millions of years that we've been humans

944
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: or human like primates.

945
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 3: It's interesting, actually there's looking at so the.

946
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: Volume of training.

947
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:53,439
Speaker 3: I think it comes back to your point about how

948
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: you actually train, because when you look at the data,

949
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 3: having a high view to max is pretty strongly predictive

950
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 3: of longevity and having a low VIO two max is

951
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 3: very very bad for your health. But it's the optimal

952
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 3: training for getting your VO two max. Is different than

953
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 3: a lot of people think, and that I used to

954
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 3: traditionally think. It's a lot of it's in zone two

955
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 3: training and then a little bit of giving it. You're

956
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 3: in Norway, let's talk about their Norwegian four four by

957
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 3: four protocol, which is a great protocol where you go

958
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,959
Speaker 3: at four minutes at eighty five to ninety five percent

959
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 3: of your max heart rate and you recover for three minutes.

960
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: You do that four times, right, But.

961
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 3: That one session plus the zone two stuff, lots of

962
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 3: more of the zone two stuff, will significantly improve your

963
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 3: VIO two max. And it doesn't necessarily mean that if

964
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 3: you're doing that every single day and doing heaps of

965
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 3: zone four, zone five is better.

966
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, probably one of those exercises a win.

967
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 2: And then maybe too of a Zone two maybe up

968
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: to one hour, you know, it could be it could

969
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 2: be a great And it's also important that veeoto max

970
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: is a very slow number to increase or decrease. You know,

971
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 2: it takes a long time, you know, to get it

972
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 2: from like thirty to thirty five good thing a couple

973
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 2: of years, you know, So it's a slow you have

974
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 2: to be very patient, you know, to to increase your

975
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 2: your fitness level. It takes some time. So I think

976
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 2: people may maybe overly optimistic about how fast they will

977
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 2: get in good shape, at least compared to the vieoto

978
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 2: max level. H it's very stable.

979
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 3: Let's not Let's let's move on from exercise and and

980
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 3: talk about other things that will impact your heart variability.

981
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 3: And and really I like to talk to people about

982
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 3: preparation and and rather than being reactive if they know

983
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 3: they have a stress period coming up, like hard to

984
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 3: prepare yourself for that, because I think that plays into

985
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: the it's the same thing, right.

986
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,919
Speaker 2: Mm yeah, and that can The example that I would

987
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: use for that is the PMS for women, the pre

988
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 2: menstrual syndrome face, you know, the one week before menstruation.

989
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: When I see the dips in HRV for that week,

990
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 2: it's as deep as a covid infection. Oh wow, So

991
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 2: it's like having a covid infection every month, you know.

992
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 2: For the ones with with PMS symptoms, For the ones

993
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 2: with pm d D like the dysphoric, the disease or

994
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 2: whatever you call it, the more serious ones that can

995
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 2: really put you out for that week, that's even worse numbers.

996
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: And when the women that I used to post cure

997
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 2: and use the strategies, when they can measure it, they

998
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: are more prepared, you know. And then when they stress less,

999
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: sleep more, you know, take a yoga session instead of

1000
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 2: a training session, they're able to flatten out that curve

1001
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 2: so that the distressful period you can almost vanish, you know.

1002
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 2: And so when you know that there's a stressful period

1003
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 2: coming up, either because of your short period actually or whatever,

1004
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 2: or you have to work or or work or yeah, whatever,

1005
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: when you then can mitigate it by making sure that

1006
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 2: you rest more, breathe more. Maybe you do cold water therapy.

1007
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 2: You know, you avoid alcohol. You make sure that you

1008
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: eat food that you can tolerate. You know, you don't

1009
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 2: go for that bag of crisps or chocolate or whatever

1010
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 2: that will stress you. Then you're able to flatten that

1011
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 2: curve and you can go through that hard time so

1012
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 2: much easier. So you're not waste wasting resources, you know,

1013
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 2: on poor stress. You know, so you have good stress,

1014
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 2: which is stress that is youful for you that once

1015
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 2: you're stressed, you will bounce back stronger. But you also

1016
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 2: have stress that is just a waste of energy, you know,

1017
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: like alcohol, like ultra processed food, you know, that will

1018
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 2: only drain you of your resources and not give you

1019
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 2: anything back.

1020
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the ultra process foot.

1021
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 3: I mean sorry, I was going to just reemphasize that

1022
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 3: is a great point about preparing for stress. Just like

1023
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 3: an athlete who's going into competition really prepares and gets themselves. Well,

1024
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 3: why wouldn't we do all of those good things when

1025
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 3: we're going into a stressful period. I'm a massive fan

1026
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 3: of that rather than being reactive, because if you're well prepared,

1027
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 3: as you said, you can flatten out the curve, then

1028
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 3: you're less reactive as well, and you're going to be

1029
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 3: able to get through that period and.

1030
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: Much much better. But let's just talk about ultra process foods.

1031
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 3: So there is almost every week I'm reading a research

1032
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 3: paper about the negative health effects of ultra processed foods,

1033
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 3: and let's talk about their impact on HRV. Is that

1034
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 3: do you think because of all of the negative things

1035
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: that are in it that are disrupting our got microbiome

1036
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 3: and impacting the vegus nerve that way? Or do you

1037
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 3: think there's a different independent mechanism by which ultra processed

1038
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 3: foods are really not good for us? Or is it

1039
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 3: just a global This stuff is putting stress and strain

1040
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 3: on your body and it's reflected in the HRV.

1041
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think is both of that. I think

1042
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 2: that the ultra processed food will give you a worse

1043
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 2: microbiome and will give you kind of a chronically lowered

1044
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: heart rate variability, But you can also see that once

1045
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 2: you eat that, you will get immediate reaction stress reaction.

1046
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 2: Your heart rate will go up because you will probably

1047
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: have a degree obliquey got and there will yeah, and

1048
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 2: there will be some particles then coming in to your

1049
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 2: bloodstream that your immune system has to react to and

1050
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: gives this inflammation.

1051
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really important.

1052
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:21,919
Speaker 3: I think that's important for people to understand, and particularly

1053
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 3: having a poor diet for a long period of time.

1054
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: What we know is that people on those types of diet,

1055
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 3: and particularly when they're having low fiber, the the microbes

1056
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 3: in our gut that depend on fiber to feed them,

1057
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 3: they turn into cannibals and they eat the mucous membry

1058
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 3: and the lining of the god that is basically the

1059
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 3: barrier between the outside world and the inside world. Because

1060
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 3: when we think about it, our guesstro intestinal system is

1061
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 3: a tube that is essentially outside the body, right, and it's.

1062
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like an open wound, you know, more

1063
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 2: or less, you know, for from other people. It's almost

1064
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 2: like an open wound that we keep hurting, you know,

1065
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 2: with every meal.

1066
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 3: And I don't think enough people realize the impact of

1067
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 3: diet on their health through that gut immune brillant axis.

1068
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 3: And as you said, when you get that leaky gut syndrome,

1069
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 3: most people don't realize the eighty percent of your immune

1070
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 3: system resides in your gut, and so you're going to

1071
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 3: have an immune reaction that is going to then create

1072
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 3: a stress response and you'll see that reflected in your

1073
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 3: heart rate variability. But I think the other thing is

1074
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 3: that over the long periods of time, can actually drive

1075
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,439
Speaker 3: all too immune conditions just because of a shit diet, right.

1076
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, a diet poor diet, I think is

1077
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 2: the number one cause of this inflammation, this chronic low

1078
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 2: grade information that makes us sick. So once you get

1079
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 2: the diet in order, and of course that is you know,

1080
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 2: to eat real food food, lind, you're a great grandmother

1081
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 2: wh would recognize a food and drink water, you know,

1082
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 2: instead of juices and and.

1083
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 3: Flooding soft soft drinks and drinks and especially unsweetened soft

1084
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 3: drinks are just as bad but maybe even worse for

1085
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 3: our microballein.

1086
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, probably so. And also this restricted feeding windows,

1087
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 2: so we see, and that is so interesting that fasting

1088
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 2: shows up for at least so many people as a

1089
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: good thing for your heart rate variability. Uh, And that

1090
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 2: was a big surprise to me because I started fasting

1091
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 2: more or less accidentally, and I thought that when I

1092
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 2: was hungry that I would see stress, but it was

1093
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: the opposite happened.

1094
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: You know.

1095
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 2: It was very relieving for and calming for my system

1096
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 2: not to eat. And we also see that if you

1097
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 2: do the casting mimicking diet for like four or five days,

1098
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 2: that can have a huge impact on your on your

1099
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 2: heart rate ability, you know, because you're you're doing autophogie.

1100
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 2: You're you're you're literally eating away of your worst selves

1101
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: and your worst mitochondria is by the autophogy, and you

1102
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 2: will get healthier from fasting, you know, which, of course

1103
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 2: is in all religions, you know, in all cultures, there

1104
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 2: has been some they knew that fasting was good for us,

1105
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 2: you know, instead of like like the like the food

1106
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 2: industry wants you to think that if you lack energy,

1107
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, have a chocolate, have a potein bar or whatever,

1108
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 2: eat something. But the solution maybe not to eat.

1109
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting with the fasting.

1110
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 3: Often people some people will say to me, oh, I've

1111
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 3: heard that that fasting for four or five days is

1112
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 3: really bad for you, And then I show them a

1113
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 3: research paper of the world record fast, which is in

1114
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine or nineteen seventy maybe seventy one. It

1115
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 3: was a Scottish guy who went to his doctor and

1116
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 3: he said, Doc, I'm a bit fat and I think

1117
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 3: I need to stop eating for a while. Can you

1118
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 3: supervise me? And he fasted for three hundred and eighty

1119
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 3: two days, one hundred and twenty kilos and they kept

1120
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 3: it off. So you can do four or five days

1121
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 3: right on this. I think we got to add people

1122
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 3: have type one diabetes or some other health condition that

1123
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 3: they should talk to their doctor.

1124
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: But for the rest of us, you can just crack on.

1125
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 2: It's yeah, we are made for that. We are made

1126
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 2: for that. We are not made for eating, you know,

1127
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 2: from we get up in the morning until we go

1128
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: to bed at night, which many people do and which

1129
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 2: many people have been instructed by their doctors to do,

1130
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 2: you know, to eat very regularly, and of course that

1131
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 2: will only make the blood sugar go up and down

1132
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 2: like a roller coaster throughout the day and where we

1133
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:51,759
Speaker 2: are so so the break from eating is very important.

1134
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 2: So one of the strategies in the polls CUR is

1135
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 2: to have an eating window of maybe eight hours I

1136
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 2: new six hours, but I think that eight ours is okay.

1137
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 2: So that if you eat from eleven o'clock until seven o'clock,

1138
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 2: for example, it will so many people notice that their

1139
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 2: pain goes away, like their muscle pains, their their stomach

1140
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 2: problems goes away. There there maybe you have like e cema,

1141
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: or psoriasis or something that that goes away. So obviously

1142
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 2: what you eat and when you eat it's very very important.

1143
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think also avoiding eatingly at at night

1144
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 3: is absolutely as well.

1145
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1146
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 2: And of course when you when you see that if

1147
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 2: you have had a habit of eating before you go

1148
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 2: to bed, and then when you see the results on

1149
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 2: your your garment watch, you wouldn't necessarily see it on

1150
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 2: the other devices or understand so immediately because you can

1151
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 2: see that it was three hours after the meal, that

1152
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 2: that was where the problem was. And when you see that,

1153
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: of course it's so much motivating to resist that last

1154
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 2: meal and eat a little bit earlier.

1155
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 1: In the U.

1156
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, I think we did talk about alcohol

1157
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 3: earlier and has a pretty negative effect on HRV. Is

1158
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 3: that just because alcohol is essentially a poison or do

1159
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,640
Speaker 3: you think it's because it's impacting on our sleep and

1160
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 3: we're waking up and spending less time in deep sleep.

1161
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: Or is it a combination thereof or is it some

1162
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: other things?

1163
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 3: Because I actually noticed my resting heart rate not even

1164
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 3: hr so hrv will drop, but my resting heart rate

1165
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 3: overnight will be about ten beats higher if I've had

1166
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 3: significant amounts of alcohol.

1167
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So it's both, as you say,

1168
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,240
Speaker 2: it's so the alcohol in itself, or the problem is

1169
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 2: not the alcohol. The alcohol will calm you down, you know,

1170
01:11:57,400 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 2: which is of course why me and many other people

1171
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 2: I've used it to calm down in the evening. You know,

1172
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 2: they think it's relieving their stress.

1173
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 3: You know.

1174
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 2: The problem is that the alcohol will be converted into acetaldehyde,

1175
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 2: and acetaldehyde is very, very poisonous, so that has to

1176
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 2: be the first priority over everything else. That the liver

1177
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 2: has to eliminate it. And that is what gives the stress.

1178
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:25,879
Speaker 2: And if you then have this stress while you're supposed

1179
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 2: to be sleeping, you also lose sleep quality in addition

1180
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,799
Speaker 2: to the stress in itself. You get the double effect

1181
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 2: of that, and this will vary. I was on a

1182
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 2: podcast earlier this week and I saw the numbers of

1183
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 2: one guy a very healthy guy, good VIEO two max,

1184
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 2: who had been having a bottle of wine. I could

1185
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 2: see hardly any difference, you know. So it's a very individual.

1186
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: And I get messages, you know, from people on Instagram

1187
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,600
Speaker 2: that will tell me that their wife cannot tolerate you know,

1188
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 2: two glasses of wine, but they can, you know, So

1189
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 2: this will be a very individual basis how much you

1190
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 2: can take. In general, I can see that people with

1191
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,680
Speaker 2: a good fitness level, a good Vio two max, they

1192
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 2: can tolerate more stressors of any kind of food or

1193
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 2: alcohol or whatever than other people. So for me, it's very,

1194
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 2: very devastating. I actually the first time I understood how

1195
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 2: terrible alcohol was was that I was working twenty four

1196
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 2: hours a day for one week. I usually sleep, you know,

1197
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 2: some business night. I could be walking up you know,

1198
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 2: at night. But I was working quite hard, as hard

1199
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 2: as I can work for one week, and then had

1200
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 2: one day off, and then one more week of that.

1201
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 2: And on the day off, I used to go for

1202
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 2: a walk and I used to have a bottle of wine,

1203
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 2: you know. And I understood that I'm more tired after

1204
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 2: one day off and a bottle of wine than after

1205
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 2: seven days at work. Then I understood, and that was

1206
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,639
Speaker 2: totally surprise to me because I had always been having

1207
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 2: to glasses of wine every day, so I've never been

1208
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 2: on this kind of a job before. And then I

1209
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 2: understood that, okay, there must be something terrible here. And

1210
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 2: then I tried with two glasses of wine, and even

1211
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 2: with two glasses of wine, I woke up more tired

1212
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 2: than after seven days at work. So that is when

1213
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: I just skipped alcohol totally. And that I think if

1214
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 2: you have any problem with stress or disease, or feel

1215
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 2: tired or burned out, you know, the first thing to

1216
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 2: do is just cut alcohol. And if you can do

1217
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 2: it for two months, then you will see how you function.

1218
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 2: You it's not enough only after two weeks or so.

1219
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,919
Speaker 2: You need to evaluate after kind of two months without alcohol.

1220
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: But most people when they're stressed, they go for alcohol.

1221
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 3: Right. There are lots of people doing which exacerbly is

1222
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 3: the situation. Let's talk about I am aware of that

1223
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:54,560
Speaker 3: we've taken up a lot of your time, but I

1224
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 3: do want to.

1225
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 2: Talk Oh no, that's no problem, no, no problem, no problem.

1226
01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 3: Okay, because it's fascinating. I want to talk about the

1227
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 3: old exposure. I am a massive fan of cold water exposure,

1228
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 3: as I know they are in Norway, so talk to

1229
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 3: us about why cold water exposure is good for your

1230
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 3: heart rate variability and just before you do that. Actually, interestingly,

1231
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 3: last week I was in the sauna and then got

1232
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 3: into the cold polars swimming punts about five degrees centigrade

1233
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 3: or was last week, and then got out of it

1234
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 3: and I checked my HRV and my HRV went through

1235
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 3: the roof, right, that really big increase, So what's going

1236
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 3: on there?

1237
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when you're when you're exposed to cold, then

1238
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 2: it will be a stress as you're exposed to it.

1239
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 2: You know, when you go out into the temperature that

1240
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 2: you're talking about there, five degrees centigrades, that's really cold.

1241
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 2: It's very uncomfortable. But after that, when you get out

1242
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:00,639
Speaker 2: your your pulse heart hit has gone very very much down.

1243
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,600
Speaker 2: For me, it can go down to thirty five, you

1244
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:08,640
Speaker 2: know in my heart rate while it's normally maybe it

1245
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 2: would be fifty or fifty five. And that can last

1246
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 2: for hours afterwards. And this will all depend on the

1247
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 2: degrees and how long time.

1248
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 1: You're in the time, yeah, time and temperature right yeah. Yeah.

1249
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 2: So and you can also do a cold shower. So

1250
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 2: I usually do cold showers every morning, and that will

1251
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 2: give me it will give me a better HRV for

1252
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:39,520
Speaker 2: for some hours afterwards.

1253
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: Wo.

1254
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 2: And I know that so many athletes use it, you know,

1255
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:48,040
Speaker 2: you know Cristiano Ronaldo, the soccer player, Yeah, he uses it.

1256
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 2: I listen to a podcast where because he uses the

1257
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 2: hoop band, he calls it like having a doctor on

1258
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 2: your wrist. I would say it's maybe even better than

1259
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:59,759
Speaker 2: having a doctor on your risk, but a preventative doctor.

1260
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,439
Speaker 2: But he uses the cold water immersion two hundred of

1261
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 2: the days of the year that he logs in his

1262
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 2: woop bang. So it's such an important way to recover.

1263
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 2: And it's a it's a kind of a trick your

1264
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 2: You're tricking your autonomic nervous system. And the reason I've heard,

1265
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 2: you know, physiologists say that the reason they think this

1266
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 2: is happening is that you know, in ancestral times, you know,

1267
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 2: when it was nighttime, it was cold. So the cold,

1268
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 2: just like the slow breathing, is a signal to your

1269
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,799
Speaker 2: body that is calm outside. You know, we can repair.

1270
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 2: The cold is also kind of the same signal that

1271
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 2: will that will keep your heart beat down. For quite

1272
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 2: a long time. The other side of it is, of

1273
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 2: course that when you're exposed to the cold, the body

1274
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 2: tries to minimize the heat loss, and it minimizes the

1275
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 2: heat loss by keeping the pulse down and constricting your

1276
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 2: your your your your peripheral arteries and capillaries. So that

1277
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 2: is some of the mechanisms, and it will also you

1278
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 2: get the cold shock proteins, and you also have the

1279
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 2: heat shot proteins and these are these are proteins that

1280
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 2: helps your immune system. So so what we in general,

1281
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 2: what we have to do is to live a bit

1282
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 2: more like in ancestral types. You know, we have to

1283
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 2: expose ourselves for uncomfortable exercise and comfortable temperatures and fasting.

1284
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 2: You know, this is where our bodies are constructed. And

1285
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 2: when we live more in tune with our biology, then

1286
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 2: we gain from that. You know, so often you can

1287
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 2: ask yourself did people you do this fifty thousand years ago?

1288
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 2: And if they, if you can say yes, okay, then

1289
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:01,600
Speaker 2: you can do that is probably healthier for you.

1290
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, the.

1291
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 3: Stress response proteins that you talked about, the cold and

1292
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 3: heat shock proteins, I am a massive fan of those,

1293
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 3: and I actually wrote about them in my book that

1294
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 3: these are evolutionarily conserved mechanisms, right that fruitflies, worms, rodents, cats, dogs,

1295
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 3: primates including humans, all respond to the stress of heat,

1296
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 3: the stress of cold, and the stress of exercise by

1297
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:40,440
Speaker 3: upregulating these stress response proteins cold and heat shock proteins

1298
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 3: which activate cellular pathways that actually improve our cellular health.

1299
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 3: And we get that massive boost from intermittent, moderate exposure

1300
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:54,559
Speaker 3: to stress.

1301
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 1: And it's kind of counterintuitive for people, isn't it.

1302
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 3: But it's just our body these ways of adapting and

1303
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,759
Speaker 3: becoming more robust because of environmental cues.

1304
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we get better cells, you know. And the

1305
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 2: key to everything is to get better cells and better mitochondria.

1306
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 2: So and that will make sure that all your body's organs,

1307
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:20,639
Speaker 2: including the brain, works better. The brain is the one

1308
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,639
Speaker 2: that is most dependent on mitochondria. Is the densest place

1309
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 2: you know for mitochondria is the brain, you know. So

1310
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,560
Speaker 2: when and the problem with medicine, modern medicine, is that

1311
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 2: we are waiting until a disease appears in one of

1312
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 2: the organs and then we try to kind of kill off,

1313
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:44,680
Speaker 2: you know, the problem in this organ that often has

1314
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 2: side effects on all the other organs, you know, in

1315
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:51,799
Speaker 2: the body, instead of making sure that the root cause

1316
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 2: is the poor cells, the poor mitochondrias, and when we

1317
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 2: make sure that they are better through these lifestyle changes,

1318
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,839
Speaker 2: then it will improve the effect in all of the organs.

1319
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 2: So that is how modern medicine has been. I don't

1320
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 2: know how this happened. I think it's in general. I

1321
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:17,920
Speaker 2: think it's because we are educated to identify disease, categorize disease,

1322
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 2: find out what's the treatment. Then we have just not

1323
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 2: been looking at what keeps us healthy. This is not

1324
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 2: what we learned in medical school, you know, the same

1325
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 2: as in psychology. You know. The problem was that they

1326
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 2: have only been looking at sick people, you know, and

1327
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 2: and depressed people, and they have not been looking at, Okay,

1328
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 2: what keeps you from getting depressed, you know in the

1329
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 2: first place.

1330
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 3: So that the explanation, I think we're in violent agreement

1331
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:47,680
Speaker 3: on that one. We don't have a healthcare system. We

1332
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 3: have a sick cur system for both physical and psychological ailments.

1333
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 1: I think I think that that's really key. But interesting

1334
01:21:57,880 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 1: the focus on the mitochon.

1335
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:05,800
Speaker 3: Isn't it interesting how many diseases, both physical and psychological,

1336
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 3: have a large component of damage mitochondria whenever you look

1337
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 3: into it.

1338
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:15,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the rude cause. And that's a great

1339
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 2: book you know, from from Christopher Palmer called Grain Energy.

1340
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:25,680
Speaker 2: That Yeah, that tells you how how the poor mitochondrias

1341
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:31,720
Speaker 2: are the root cause of all the difference different medical diagnosis,

1342
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 2: you know, and trouble. So so we're seeing that whatever

1343
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 2: you can do for our mitochondria is well, it will

1344
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 2: help help our whole body, you know. And of course,

1345
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 2: of course again it's visible in the heart rate variability.

1346
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 2: If you if you google mitochondrial dysfunction and heart rate variability,

1347
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 2: you will find there's a connection there also. So it's

1348
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 2: not only so it's not only that like the vagus

1349
01:22:55,760 --> 01:23:00,120
Speaker 2: nerve and the parasympathetic and sympathetic nerves. It is that

1350
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 2: is the totality of our physiology that will have a

1351
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 2: reaction in heart rate variability. So it's like it's like

1352
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 2: a very complex system, you know.

1353
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 3: That's what I was actually about to ask you if

1354
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:19,680
Speaker 3: there's any research on mitochondrial health and HRV, But you

1355
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:23,600
Speaker 3: just answered that question. The other question, I don't know

1356
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,559
Speaker 3: if you have the answer to it, and if you don't,

1357
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 3: maybe a little speculation about link between hate cold shot proteins,

1358
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:36,879
Speaker 3: the overall stress response proteins and HRV. Have you seen anything,

1359
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 3: Is there anything that you're aware of about up regulation

1360
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:44,719
Speaker 3: of heat and cold shot proteins that would impact HRV?

1361
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm thinking NRF two and AR pathways are

1362
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 3: activated by them, But do they play into heart rate

1363
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 3: variability directly?

1364
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 1: Have you seen anything on that at all?

1365
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 3: And if not, a bit bloody and experiment, wouldn't it

1366
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 3: be a really interesting experiment.

1367
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure there is research on it, you know

1368
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 2: then so that it will improve the heart rate variability

1369
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:17,560
Speaker 2: the cold you know, temperature exposure, but I have it

1370
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 2: doesn't come to mind that once, but I'm sure once

1371
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 2: I google it, you know, there will be somebody. I've

1372
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:26,920
Speaker 2: been researching it because because HRV is such an easy

1373
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,040
Speaker 2: metric to get, you know, once you're doing a big

1374
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 2: research study and you're prepared for one year, you know,

1375
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 2: why not get the heart rate veriability? You know, you

1376
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:35,639
Speaker 2: get it kind of for free.

1377
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:35,800
Speaker 1: You know.

1378
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 2: So it's so it's uh, it's combined in so many

1379
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 2: studies and I'm sure they have it also on a

1380
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 2: temperature challenge, you know, So it's like you're saying, you know,

1381
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 2: death by comfort, you know, it's we have made ourselves

1382
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:52,760
Speaker 2: so comfortable and we haven't been looking at at the

1383
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:57,639
Speaker 2: price for that comfort. So yeah, we need to challenge ourselves.

1384
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,560
Speaker 2: We need to stress, We need to be stress. We

1385
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,799
Speaker 2: need to have control of it so that we control

1386
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 2: when we stress and distress, you know. And there's not

1387
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 2: something called bad stress. You know, even unwelcome stress that

1388
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 2: you would never want to have in your life can

1389
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 2: help you become stronger as long as you make sure

1390
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 2: that you relax and recover from it.

1391
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1392
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:25,840
Speaker 3: I often say that Frederick Nietzsche that which does not

1393
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 3: kill us makes us stronger. He just forgot the brackets.

1394
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 3: As long as we recover effectively, right, yeah, yeah, yeah?

1395
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 3: Are you given us some great tools before I let

1396
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,560
Speaker 3: you go? Is there anything that I haven't asked you

1397
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 3: about that I should have asked you about?

1398
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I've been also into this

1399
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 2: with the with women that the female. I think if

1400
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 2: there's one doctor specialty that needs to really know hard

1401
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 2: rate variability is a genecologist obsteticians, because so infertility is

1402
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 2: coupled the heart rate variability. Their group has found out

1403
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:16,240
Speaker 2: that like six seven weeks before a woman gives birth,

1404
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 2: there's a switch in the HIV. It will go from

1405
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 2: worsening until improving, and that will predict when the baby

1406
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,479
Speaker 2: is born, you know, of course, very important when it

1407
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 2: comes to premature the birds. Politicistic ovary syndrome is coupled

1408
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 2: with a heart rate variability, endometriosis coupled the heart rate

1409
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:44,680
Speaker 2: variability as I said, PMS symptoms and so on, And

1410
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 2: of course the period that you really do not want

1411
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 2: to be stressed is while you're pregnant. So while you're pregnant,

1412
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 2: that's a very important time to have control of your

1413
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,439
Speaker 2: stress levels more and more ease. Showing that the damage

1414
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 2: for the child and the mother from too much stress

1415
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:11,559
Speaker 2: during the pregnancies is a huge impact. And also around

1416
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 2: eighty percent of the autommune diseases they will start the

1417
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 2: year after a pregnancy, after a birth, so possibly because

1418
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 2: of the strain and the stress, you know, for the

1419
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 2: lack of sleep and everything you know, for the week

1420
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 2: after that. Also the you know, the deposed partum depression

1421
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, of course also coupled to heart rate variability.

1422
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 2: So and I think that has been the problem. Why

1423
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 2: haven't we discovered heart rate veriability until now you know,

1424
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:50,200
Speaker 2: it's just such a puzzle, you know, something so important.

1425
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 2: How could we avoid seeing that the importance of it?

1426
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 2: And I think that the problem is it doesn't really

1427
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 2: belong to one department, one specialty. The neurology is that

1428
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 2: maybe you should have had control of this. They have

1429
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:06,679
Speaker 2: overlooked it, you know, more or less, they're more more

1430
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:12,800
Speaker 2: oriented towards the brain and towards the modern neurance. So

1431
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:16,600
Speaker 2: maybe it just didn't belong to any one specialty. It

1432
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 2: belongs to every specialty. You know, there's there's not no

1433
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 2: specialty that in medicine that would not have use of

1434
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:26,760
Speaker 2: knowing about heart rate variability. Yeah, But as I said,

1435
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 2: the most important thing is that it moves the power

1436
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:32,759
Speaker 2: of the diagnostics and your health from the healthcare system

1437
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:36,599
Speaker 2: into your own hands. That's that's the key point I think.

1438
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 3: I think it is the big take on point, and

1439
01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 3: it's kind of summed up by what gets measured gets managed.

1440
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 3: And I certainly know that looking at my own heart

1441
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 3: rate variability has a bigger impact on my behaviors than

1442
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,680
Speaker 3: just subjectively around how I'm feeling. So I think that

1443
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 3: that is the big take home isn't it is that

1444
01:28:57,680 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 3: measure it and then you're much more like you get

1445
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 3: some insights to your point about what does stress you,

1446
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 3: and then you're more likely to manage it.

1447
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And the good thing is that there is

1448
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 2: money in preventative healthcare because there's too much money in

1449
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 2: sick people, you know, So most of us who work

1450
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:22,080
Speaker 2: in the healthcare system, we are director indirectly profiting from

1451
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 2: that they're sick.

1452
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 1: You know.

1453
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:27,960
Speaker 2: Yes, that is what my money that I've paid for

1454
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 2: all my adventures, you know, traveling around the world and

1455
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 2: so on, it comes from treating sick people.

1456
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 3: You know.

1457
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 2: If I would want a job right prevent people from

1458
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 2: getting sick, where would I apply? You know, it's not

1459
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:43,799
Speaker 2: we all live from that. And Big pharm of course,

1460
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:50,160
Speaker 2: lives from finding medicines that don't completely treat people and

1461
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:53,760
Speaker 2: makes them necessary to use some medication for twenty thirty years.

1462
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 2: But these devices, it makes that there is a lot

1463
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:01,719
Speaker 2: of money to be made from from helping people avoid

1464
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:05,799
Speaker 2: getting sick. So I think is a very important aspect

1465
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 2: of it.

1466
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 3: So last question for you to kill, given that you've

1467
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 3: been using several devices for our significant periods of time,

1468
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:24,439
Speaker 3: what would your recommendation be between the garment, the wood band,

1469
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 3: the or ring, apple watch, whatever, what what have you

1470
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:32,880
Speaker 3: found to be the most useful slash reliable.

1471
01:30:34,040 --> 01:30:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's easily the garment. Yeah, by far. You will

1472
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:40,719
Speaker 2: see that. Things happening all the time. You know, Samsung

1473
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 2: is coming with a new Galaxy ring. They're coming with

1474
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 2: the new watches this summer, I know. But so far

1475
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 2: Garment is the way ahead of the other ones most

1476
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:56,680
Speaker 2: because of the comb that they bought the first bit algorithm.

1477
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 2: So that's that's really the key to it really. Yeah,

1478
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 2: and the advantage is also that that they have watches

1479
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 2: from from down two hundred and fifty US dollars and

1480
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 2: up to you know, ten times that. But you can

1481
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:14,799
Speaker 2: the entrance point can be really really accessible for anyone

1482
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 2: where you would get access to the to the body

1483
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,680
Speaker 2: battery system and stress levels, so and that you can

1484
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 2: just push the button and you will see the stress

1485
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,000
Speaker 2: level in the moment. And now I would advise people

1486
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 2: to guess what it is first. That is what I did.

1487
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 2: Anyway that I would I would guess what will I

1488
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 2: see when I push the button and see my stress levels?

1489
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:37,840
Speaker 2: And then you start you know, paying more attention to

1490
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:38,960
Speaker 2: your to your body.

1491
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 3: So very cool, Tokil Farroh, this has been awesome. I

1492
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:49,360
Speaker 3: knew a reasonable amount about the heartbread variability that I

1493
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:53,560
Speaker 3: have learned a shipload, and I'm sure our listeners have

1494
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 3: learned a shipload. But I love the the the real

1495
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:01,640
Speaker 3: practical advice that that that you give us. And so

1496
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:06,479
Speaker 3: if you're listening and jump on and buy the book.

1497
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:09,880
Speaker 3: So to that point, where can people go to buy

1498
01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 3: the Pulse Cure and find out more about you and

1499
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 3: any other things that you offer.

1500
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, they should be able to get it anywhere. It's

1501
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 2: a standard book by Hashett, a big publisher, and it

1502
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 2: should be available on Amazon, is on an audiobook and

1503
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 2: the book as well. You would get it on your iPhone,

1504
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 2: you know, from your from your book app on the iPhone?

1505
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 1: Do you you did the narration on the on the

1506
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 1: do you know?

1507
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 2: Really?

1508
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:48,760
Speaker 3: For mine, I had to actually audition to do my

1509
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:52,200
Speaker 3: own audio book, which is really interest right.

1510
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 2: And I didn't know I did an original one I did, right,

1511
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:57,960
Speaker 2: That was very interesting. It was very hard. It was

1512
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:01,559
Speaker 2: very hard actually, but know they have a proper English

1513
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:06,040
Speaker 2: speaker for that. Yeah, and also if they on Instagram,

1514
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 2: I'm doctor Turtle, Dr Point. And we also have a

1515
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 2: website called the postcare dot com where you can see

1516
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 2: a video lecture. You can see me explaining how I

1517
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:22,600
Speaker 2: use it, use the graphs from the garment watchers and

1518
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 2: so on.

1519
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: Oh brilliant.

1520
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:27,560
Speaker 3: Okay, awesome. I will stick all those links in the

1521
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:31,560
Speaker 3: show notes. But yeah, look, thank you very much for

1522
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:34,599
Speaker 3: your time and enjoy your morning.

1523
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:35,719
Speaker 1: Would that be correct?

1524
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it's still morning. Yeah, yeah, thank you

1525
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 2: so much. And it's so nice to speak with someone

1526
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 2: as knowledgeable as yourself. So many podcasts where I have

1527
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:50,640
Speaker 2: to explain everything, and it's so much more fun to

1528
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:55,439
Speaker 2: be able to discuss it with you, because I think

1529
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 2: a few people have your your knowledge, so it's a

1530
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 2: very good to be able to speak to one of them.

1531
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:06,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you. I love the conversation. That was

1532
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 3: a great bounds off. So thanks for your time and

1533
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:11,600
Speaker 3: keep doing what you're doing because the world needs it.