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Speaker 1: Approache production.

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Speaker 2: For the record. I'm done trying to make y'all comfortable

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Speaker 2: for the record. You ain't trying to grow downer stuff

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Speaker 2: for your for the record, laugh on me going all

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Speaker 2: the way way for the record. Ain't trying to link,

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Speaker 2: No trying to wait stop for the.

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Speaker 3: Record for the record, for the for the record, for

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Speaker 3: the red for the record.

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Speaker 2: Record for the record. I'm don't trying to make y'all comfortable.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to season seventeen of The Clink. We are slowly

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Speaker 1: starting to wind up this season and it has been phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: Every get today has been awesome, and I want to

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Speaker 1: take a minute and say thank you very much to

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Speaker 1: each of you what a great season it's been, and

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Speaker 1: to everybody that's just started listening. Remember we have over

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Speaker 1: two hundred and eighteen guests, seventeen seasons and well over

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Speaker 1: five million downloads. Now go back and start listening to

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Speaker 1: all the wonderful guests from season one right through to seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Want a big shout out to Jay and the team

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Speaker 1: and also the Sideways Surf who always has our back.

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Speaker 1: And remember, guys, any Clink Ink apparel you can get

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Speaker 1: at Sideways Surf in any stores or online without further

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Speaker 1: adod this is going to be a little bit different

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Speaker 1: to what we've done in the last couple of seasons.

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Speaker 1: And why is because I have so much respect for

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Speaker 1: this lady in the short time that I've spoken with her.

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Speaker 1: Her openness to what we I think truly should know

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Speaker 1: as opposed to what we assume to know is massive.

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Speaker 1: Her information and knowledge and experience I feel can help

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Speaker 1: many today and that is why I have asked her

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Speaker 1: to become a guest on the Clink. Her name is Trischelle,

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Speaker 1: and Trischelle, welcome to the Clink. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being with us today. I know that this has

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Speaker 1: been one of those shall we say should I should

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Speaker 1: I maybe type of moments, But for us to be

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Speaker 1: here today, I know is a big step. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: and the informative conversation that I truly believe we can

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Speaker 1: have will help so many people out there understand what

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Speaker 1: truly the system is about. When I say the system,

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Speaker 1: the system with parole, the system with jail justice, and

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Speaker 1: also to what it's like for a woman to work

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Speaker 1: and be dictated to and dominated by males also within

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Speaker 1: that industry that should never have had to go through

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Speaker 1: some of the things that you ladies have had to experience. Trichelle,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the clink.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, something that I like I said in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't easy for you to feel that you wanted

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Speaker 1: to open up about because of maybe backlash or repercussions.

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Speaker 1: And I only just had not long ago an experience

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Speaker 1: up in Townsville where myself and Jeremy Donovan went up

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Speaker 1: there and did a lot of work in community with

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Speaker 1: troubled youth. We found that people within the working space

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Speaker 1: of helping people that wanted to open up and speak

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Speaker 1: openly in reference to how things were happening up there

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Speaker 1: from a justice point of view, from an ethical point

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Speaker 1: of view, were basically muzzled. They were told that to

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Speaker 1: speak out you would lose your job, you would have problems.

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Speaker 1: This is something that you had to go through and

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Speaker 1: did experience. You're no longer in that space, but thankfully

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Speaker 1: someone like you to be able to be as an

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Speaker 1: informative as you possibly can be about what it's like

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Speaker 1: to work in this space that we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 1: I think will have so much value. So honestly, from

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Speaker 1: me to you, thank you for being one brave enough

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Speaker 1: to have that conversation too. Welcome.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you. Like I said to you when we

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Speaker 4: chat it before, I started with parole and with collective

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Speaker 4: services with the goal of helping people. That's all I

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Speaker 4: wanted to do. But obviously reality was a little bit

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Speaker 4: different to that. But that's what we get into it.

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Speaker 1: For Helping people is something that we're passionate about. And

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Speaker 1: the beautiful thing is most of us that getting to

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Speaker 1: genuinely want to help people have a background story. We

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Speaker 1: do have a passion because we've experienced so much in

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Speaker 1: our lives that are relative to what we're working with.

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Speaker 1: I either clink myself my own background and story and journey.

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Speaker 1: You're no different. You had a background story which we

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Speaker 1: will talk about now because I feel that our listeners

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Speaker 1: need to know who you are and why you got

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Speaker 1: led into that space to be able to have this

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Speaker 1: conversation and lived experience. Once again, Yes, I go on

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Speaker 1: about it all the time because I'm so passionate about

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Speaker 1: the fact of what it brings to the table and

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Speaker 1: how much value it has. Four people who don't have

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Speaker 1: that lived experience, Could you please take us back for

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Speaker 1: our listeners and give us a bit of background information

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Speaker 1: about where it will begin for you. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I grew up in the country, had a really

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Speaker 4: good upbringing, nothing really special to note. I went to

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Speaker 4: high school. I actually fell pregnant seventeen, had my first

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Speaker 4: child accidentally, and smart en up. I was good at school,

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Speaker 4: but I wasn't loving school. And then I kind of thought, well,

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Speaker 4: what can I do to put a roof over his head?

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Speaker 4: What can I do as a young single mum, So

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Speaker 4: I thought as a female, I got to go to UNI.

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Speaker 4: I got to do it. So I went to UNI.

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Speaker 4: I worked in bars, worked everywhere at UNI, graduated UNI

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Speaker 4: with a criminology and criminal psychology degree, and then realize

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Speaker 4: straight out of UNI that gives you nothing so so

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Speaker 4: corrective services. I looked around. I'm like, what jobs can

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Speaker 4: I use with the chronology? Parole offs came up. I

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Speaker 4: was early twenties. I was like, hey, was great, didn't

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Speaker 4: know what it was. I'm like, oh, yeah, people are

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Speaker 4: getting out of prison. Here's my chance to help people.

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Speaker 4: Signed up to Coreactive Services and yeah, thought it was

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Speaker 4: going to be just helping people, which didn't quite realize

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Speaker 4: what working for the government is all about, and was

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Speaker 4: thrown in the thick of it pretty fast.

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Speaker 1: Firstly, I want to give credit to you one being

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Speaker 1: a young mum, a single mum, and having the courage

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Speaker 1: to go back and you know, commit to study. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's huge. Yeah, it's hard enough raising, you know,

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Speaker 1: a child on your own, littlelone actually studying because what

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Speaker 1: was that four years of your life? Three years?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and he was born in the December and I

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Speaker 4: hadn't finished year twelve yet. And I went back to

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Speaker 4: like an adult schooling which was nighttime with him in

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Speaker 4: a capsule next to me, to try and finish my

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Speaker 4: year twelve, finish a year twelve with him as a baby.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I went straight to UNI.

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Speaker 1: And how did you find that each day happening to

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Speaker 1: get up and you know, like obviously be mum, but

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Speaker 1: also study to better the future for the both of you. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I was lucky that I had a phenomenal parents. I

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Speaker 4: had a great support team. Another reason going into parole

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Speaker 4: is that not everyone's awarded that opportunity. So having that,

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Speaker 4: I wanted to use my good to be that support

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Speaker 4: for somebody else that they don't have. So I was

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Speaker 4: lucky that my mum would have and my dad would

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Speaker 4: have my young child a lot so I could study,

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Speaker 4: so I could work well studying, So a lot of

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Speaker 4: thanks to my parents.

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Speaker 1: So you go through the study period, you obviously successfully

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Speaker 1: got through it well done. So you're no silly person.

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Speaker 1: You're obviously quite intelligent. Because I wouldn't assume that well,

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Speaker 1: I hate, I'd say it all the time. I don't

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Speaker 1: like to assume, but it just comes out. But it

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Speaker 1: would be tough. It would be something that you'd be

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Speaker 1: truly tested for. Especially you know, like you said, you

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Speaker 1: didn't really finish year twelve without any troubles. You've fallen pregnant,

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Speaker 1: You've you know, you've got this beautiful young son, like

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Speaker 1: a world that's going to completely be turned upside down

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Speaker 1: to what you probably ever thought it would be at

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Speaker 1: that age. Yeah, and you still need us to succeed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I didn't finish it like other people, as in

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Speaker 4: I think it took me maybe four year degree probably

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Speaker 4: six years to do. So I did part time, then

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Speaker 4: I went back full time for a semester. I'm like, not,

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Speaker 4: can't do this anymore, and then didn't do it a semester.

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Speaker 4: So it wasn't easy, that's for sure. Like obviously I

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Speaker 4: was still having to work to put food on the table,

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Speaker 4: studying have a young child, so I didn't do it

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Speaker 4: as quick as other people, but I did it. I

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Speaker 4: finished it eventually, and yeah, I wanted to get out

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Speaker 4: into the big bad working.

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Speaker 1: World, big bad working world or tea. What you stepped

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Speaker 1: into a big bad place, that's for sure. How was that? Like?

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Speaker 1: What made you? I know you said wanting to help people?

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Speaker 1: And I get that, But why that direct? Why would

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Speaker 1: you want to?

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Speaker 4: Legal studies actually started my degree with the law degree,

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Speaker 4: dropped it halfway through, which I've now gone on to

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Speaker 4: do later on. But I loved the legal side of things,

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Speaker 4: love the justice side of things, but also loved helping people.

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Speaker 4: So I thought, oh, this is perfect, Like I get

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Speaker 4: to work with in the criminal aspect in the justice system,

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Speaker 4: and yeah, I get to help people. It's a win

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Speaker 4: win sort of thing. So that's pretty much how I

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Speaker 4: got into it. But yeah, it turned up my first

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Speaker 4: day obviously and thrown in the deepen straight up.

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Speaker 1: So you say thrown in the deepend for anybody out

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Speaker 1: that doesn't understand, I mean for me, I get the picture,

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Speaker 1: and so will many that have been involved in the system.

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Speaker 1: What the depend can be or what it actually is

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Speaker 1: for you. What is the depend you know, how does

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Speaker 1: one come into the justice system or the corrective service system.

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Speaker 4: I think we were talking about the funny thing with

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Speaker 4: parole officers and that in Queensland we're the only state

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Speaker 4: that you have to have a university degree, so most

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Speaker 4: of us come straight out of UNI. Most of us

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Speaker 4: haven't had life experience. They're young, twenty one twenty two

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Speaker 4: year olds, grew up pretty good family, go into this world.

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Speaker 4: When I started back, oh well over ten years ago,

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Speaker 4: there was no training. So what you see with correctional

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Speaker 4: officers with screws, that sort of thing, they get training,

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Speaker 4: they get there. We get thrown in. Here's fifty criminals

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Speaker 4: to say to look after, see you later. That's it.

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Speaker 4: There is no training. We get sent to what we

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Speaker 4: call pdp P, which is our training. It's like a

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Speaker 4: I think it's two or four week training for parole

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Speaker 4: of users when there's a spot available. So I did

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Speaker 4: my training to become a parole officer about eighteen months

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Speaker 4: after I was a parole officer on the job eighteen

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Speaker 4: Because so what I mean deepened. They do not training.

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Speaker 4: They just throw us young people in and say Wow, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: because the turnover is so massive because no one lasts.

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Speaker 4: They're desperate for people. You just got a sinkle swim

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Speaker 4: take these criminals, do your best with them. So that's

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Speaker 4: pretty much how we started.

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Speaker 1: When you use the word criminal, and I'm not being disrespectful,

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Speaker 1: but I'd like to if we can try and use

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Speaker 1: the inmates because I find that a little bit offensive,

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Speaker 1: not from you, but just.

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Speaker 4: So we call them in parole offenders. That's what we are, yeah,

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Speaker 4: to us in community correction inmates someone in prison. So

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Speaker 4: when they come out, I struggle with what word to

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Speaker 4: use it. And obviously now I'm on the other side,

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Speaker 4: I'm on the private side. We call them clients. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I struggle to be like, what do we call them?

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Speaker 4: What's a And I'm very big on that. What's the

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Speaker 4: most respectful thing to call somebody that's not in custody

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Speaker 4: right now? They're not a client? They're like, so, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm open to everything.

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Speaker 1: Let's run an offender word I'd rather be a criminal.

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Speaker 1: Criminal is a dirty word.

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Speaker 4: I would love to use offender because that's what we

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Speaker 4: watch the offender.

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Speaker 1: Let's settle for that. We're going to with that and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people will be a lot

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Speaker 1: happy here, and I want to continue the more are you?

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Speaker 1: I think, fuck off?

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Speaker 5: So you worked with defenders in the justice system as

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Speaker 5: a parole of and inmates who are in custody obviously,

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Speaker 5: and how would one know and like here we gave

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Speaker 5: like just see you going our conversation in our language.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you were to, I guess, approach an

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Speaker 5: inmate or within you know, custody inmates and constantly.

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Speaker 1: Called them a criminal refer to of course of course.

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Speaker 1: But this is more for that person that hasn't had

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Speaker 1: that education and you know, you're on the job, like

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Speaker 1: you've said, you're not educated as in that in that space,

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Speaker 1: How to act react? What is triggering for those people?

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Speaker 1: How do then you hold yourself and language wise? And

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be rude or anything, but you're

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Speaker 1: a very attractive lady. You're not sort of unattractive. So

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Speaker 1: I mean for an inmate, they are naturally going to

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Speaker 1: start to be some good star struck looking Wow. Next minute,

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Speaker 1: Oh she's calling me a criminal? You know, who does

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Speaker 1: she think she is? Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we learned words, so there's a few words obviously

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Speaker 4: people would know that I've been in custody and that

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Speaker 4: there's words you do not say. And as someone that's

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Speaker 4: never been around that world, we're educated by a book,

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Speaker 4: which means nothing when you go into the real world.

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Speaker 4: I've got an example of a word. So we have

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Speaker 4: to do this whole motivational speaking motivational, like let's try

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Speaker 4: and get these offenders to think positive or whatever. And

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Speaker 4: she came out of there going, he just threatened to

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Speaker 4: kill me. We're like, what did you say to him?

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Speaker 4: She goes, I've been all motivational. I called him champ.

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Speaker 1: Ah. She goes boss Champ and pow.

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Speaker 4: She goes, I said, you're doing a great job, Champ,

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Speaker 4: and he snapped it up. And I'm like, so we

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Speaker 4: learned by those things. You say a word, you see

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Speaker 4: their face drop, you see the daggers come, and we're like,

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Speaker 4: what's that word actually mean? Then you go using that

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Speaker 4: one again. So we learnt on the job like we

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Speaker 4: weren't around it. We actually had spreadsheets in the Office

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Speaker 4: of Prisoner Terms. We have an Excel spreadsheet and there's

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Speaker 4: just millions and some of them are hilarious. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: we'd go and go, what's this word and we like

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Speaker 4: go to it and yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I'm not sitting here disrespectfully laughing, but this is

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Speaker 1: the sensitivity around working in that space. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's actually good that we talk about this because there's

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Speaker 1: so much involved for someone like yourself who is just

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Speaker 1: trying to do good. You're not there to harm anyone.

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Speaker 1: You're there to try and give somebody, I guess the

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Speaker 1: support that's required. And don't get me wrong, there are

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Speaker 1: some putrid parole officers out there that are just fucking dogs.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to hold back from it. I've experienced it,

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Speaker 1: and so as many out there. It's rare that we

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Speaker 1: get a genuinely good passionate, you know, a person wanting

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Speaker 1: to make difference or see that person parole offender succeed

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Speaker 1: come out with the right sort of structure and the

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Speaker 1: right sort of support networks. Because you're a statistic yeah.

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Speaker 4: Government bases it on statistics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I had six years and I had a

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Speaker 1: three year parole period where I was under federal offense

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Speaker 1: because of an importation charge. So for me, I was

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Speaker 1: destined to fail, even down to the last few months,

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Speaker 1: you know, like trying to get I lived on a

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Speaker 1: border town or the Queensland and New South Wales trying

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Speaker 1: to get work because there was no work in the

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Speaker 1: small community that I was living in. But my life

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Speaker 1: was across the border. But because I've been arrested in

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Speaker 1: New South Wales and served my time there, they didn't

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Speaker 1: want to allow me to cross the border even though

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Speaker 1: I lived literally a stone nice.

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Speaker 4: With other states. That's what people don't realize. We don't

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Speaker 4: talk to other and obviously the travel thing with parole,

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Speaker 4: you've got to do a travel application, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 4: I always say them, just go we don't talk to

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Speaker 4: the other state. We don't play nice. So I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that border is almost like a country border, fair parole

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Speaker 4: or for productive services everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and it's extremely frustrating because it's simple.

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Speaker 1: You've got to learn to play the game, and that's

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Speaker 1: what it is. It is a game of chess. One

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Speaker 1: wrong move or you know, as we've talked about on

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Speaker 1: the phone briefly, which I'm looking forward to getting into

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Speaker 1: the Chess Master. If I can put it that way,

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Speaker 1: I either parole officer generally can create moves that aren't

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Speaker 1: ethical to the wrong moves, but must be accepted and

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Speaker 1: definitely make the parole extremely vulnerable in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: Those sorts of things I personally feel are truly unacceptable

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Speaker 1: because in society, as an everyday human, you can't do that.

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Speaker 1: It is Classter's corruption his class to fraud, straight up,

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Speaker 1: plain and simple, fucking dishonest, and you're playing with the

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Speaker 1: lives of a human and their fairs. Look, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sitting here trying to make it all pretty and sweet.

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Speaker 1: You do the crime, you do the time. I'm all

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Speaker 1: for that, you know what I mean. Like, if I've

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Speaker 1: done something wrong and I'll get caught, I put my

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Speaker 1: hand out. I've only ever played, out of fourteen years jail,

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Speaker 1: I've only ever played not guilty twice, do you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Like any other time, I've just copped

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Speaker 1: it because that I knew what I did, I was

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Speaker 1: guilty of it. And that's the whack. I mean. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: life definitely not these days. It's well beyond me other

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Speaker 1: than a circumstantial situation that I've been battling. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, looking in the big scheme of things, it's

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Speaker 1: something that has so much weight on the success of

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Speaker 1: that paroleague coming out and being able to make a

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Speaker 1: life for themselves. You guys. When I say you guys,

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Speaker 1: please don't think of pointing the thing at you. I'm

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Speaker 1: speaking in general as we are inmates. Except for a few,

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Speaker 1: it's just not okay. And you've experienced that first hand.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the big thing. And you're saying that there's some

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Speaker 4: awful parole officers, US good ones, usd ones that said

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Speaker 4: no to management a few times, or we stuck to

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Speaker 4: what we believed in. We're not there anymore because the

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Speaker 4: ones that will do as they're told, the ones that

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Speaker 4: will buy into the corruption, that will do everything, they'll

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Speaker 4: go up the ladder. Us that say not not doing it.

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Speaker 4: I don't agree with that. We move on very quickly.

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Speaker 4: We don't tolerate it. What you were saying about being

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Speaker 4: families and that there's a few instances, and I don't know. Look,

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Speaker 4: I haven't been at paroles since they retired me in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty, so I know.

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Speaker 1: Well that's not that long ago.

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Speaker 4: I know a lot of Harry fresh but with the

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Speaker 4: big one and a lot of us that have moved

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Speaker 4: on to bigger and better things. The one thing that

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Speaker 4: really really stung us was we would look after I

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Speaker 4: don't know. Let's say fifty offenders and back in the

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Speaker 4: day with mandatory suspensions or any parole suspension, so you

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Speaker 4: suspend their parole return to prison. Warrant goes out. You've

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Speaker 4: probably heard these stories where we pull him into the office. No, nah,

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Speaker 4: you're fine, you're not. There's no warrant for you. You

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Speaker 4: pull them into a room and you're told to do this.

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Speaker 4: You're like, we need to arrest them. They can't go

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Speaker 4: on the run. Bring them in. They sit there across you.

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Speaker 4: You've built this rapport with them, so you're their parole.

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Speaker 4: Obviously you're not the one that's agreed to the warrant.

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Speaker 4: You're not the one you have to sit across for

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Speaker 4: them and say yeap. We then call police, and police

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Speaker 4: come in the back door, knock on the door. You're

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Speaker 4: going to prison. Their wife's in the car. They're whatever, no, goodbye,

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Speaker 4: know nothing. They look at you, dead in the soul,

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Speaker 4: and then they get back out, say a month, two months,

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Speaker 4: three months later, and they're like, here go, Tochelle, You've

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Speaker 4: got to now supervise this person again and etonan to

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Speaker 4: have trusting you again. They're not going to have trusting you.

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Speaker 4: But management the government. They don't care. You're just that

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Speaker 4: you do as you're told. And then there's actually a

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Speaker 4: story about that. So we had an incident with immigration.

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Speaker 4: So with the immigration reel, as you do a certain

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Speaker 4: amount of prison time, this gentleman wasn't even that bad

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Speaker 4: of a don't even remember what it was. But he

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Speaker 4: got out of prison, reported to us everything was good.

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Speaker 4: In immigrations like we want him, he's got to be deported,

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Speaker 4: blah blah blah. He's driven in and he's work truck working,

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Speaker 4: parked in the loading zone. Come on in, here's all

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Speaker 4: Immigration grabs him, plane out of the country, his wife, kids,

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Speaker 4: everything at home, cars in the How is that humane?

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Speaker 1: This is under those five oh one luwles? Is that

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Speaker 1: what we refer to? And we both know so many

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Speaker 1: people who have had to experience this. I've had so

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Speaker 1: many guests on here over the seasons that literally they've

383
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Speaker 1: made mistakes. But are they bad people? Know? Do they

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Speaker 1: deserve to it? And they've lived here since they were.

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Speaker 4: Like yeah, but not just that, like fair enough, go

386
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Speaker 4: through that, do whatever you got to do. That's part

387
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Speaker 4: of the system. Don't make me set it up. Don't

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Speaker 4: make me be the one and then what you were

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Speaker 4: saying about your lose your job. If you push back

390
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Speaker 4: at all, if you ever said your life would be helped,

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Speaker 4: we would be made. Like I say to so many

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Speaker 4: people when they find out, oh you're a parola, so

393
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Speaker 4: I hate them, blah blah blah, I said, trust me,

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Speaker 4: I hate them more than you. That we were treated

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Speaker 4: way worse. And I know offenders are going to find

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Speaker 4: that hard to believe that they're treated worse. We are

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Speaker 4: treated way worse as female staff then we treat offenders.

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Speaker 1: I want to just touch on that, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's very relative, especially to moving forward after this. There's

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Speaker 1: an experience that you had, which, if you're comfortable to

401
00:21:29,761 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 1: talk about just briefly, but the expectations that are expected

402
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Speaker 1: from you, the things that are unethical, the things that

403
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Speaker 1: actually really that we talk about when we're on parole

404
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Speaker 1: and we complain about that this happens and that happens,

405
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Speaker 1: and no one listens to but we know, as the

406
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Speaker 1: offender or the inmate that's been in the system a

407
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Speaker 1: long time, we see what the game is and what's

408
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Speaker 1: being played. When we talk about dishonesty and fraudulent acts

409
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Speaker 1: through to paperwork and breaching things like that you first heard,

410
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Speaker 1: have seen that, know all too well what it's about.

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Speaker 4: Many there's so many to even discuss of.

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Speaker 1: Let's touch on a few because I think it's so

413
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Speaker 1: important and relevant.

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Speaker 4: So I think we're talking about mandatory suspension days. So

415
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Speaker 4: back in the day, if you gave a dirty urine,

416
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Speaker 4: a dirty drug test, straight to prison, don't cross go,

417
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Speaker 4: don't get your two hundred dollars automatic suspension. We are sitting,

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Speaker 4: so we're meant to sit on, say thirty fifty offenders.

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Speaker 4: We're short staffed. They don't care we sit on about

420
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Speaker 4: one hundred. We don't know where they are, so a

421
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Speaker 4: workload to get too big. Let's just do a random

422
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Speaker 4: drug test, clean out a case load and put them

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Speaker 4: back in. Where's the rehabilitation in that. That's just to

424
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Speaker 4: put them back in to make our life. And when

425
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Speaker 4: you're in that position where you are so stressed, we

426
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Speaker 4: work back sometimes till all hours of the night, but

427
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Speaker 4: we're not allowed to put it on our time sheet

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Speaker 4: because we can't look like we're struggling. But when you're

429
00:22:55,001 --> 00:22:58,521
Speaker 4: sitting on so many people, you can't make a difference.

430
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,761
Speaker 4: You just need to cross your t's and dot your

431
00:23:00,761 --> 00:23:03,041
Speaker 4: eyes and hope something doesn't go wrong, because it's our

432
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 4: head on the chopping block. So obviously, if you're in

433
00:23:06,481 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 4: a parole office, say the Gold Coast, and Gold Coast

434
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,721
Speaker 4: is a small place everybody, it's a small country town

435
00:23:12,761 --> 00:23:13,241
Speaker 4: that's big.

436
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: So you've only got Southport of Burley, don't you.

437
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,321
Speaker 4: So we're done in regions. So in South Coast region

438
00:23:19,521 --> 00:23:23,241
Speaker 4: is Southport, Burley, Logan and Beanley. They are parole offices.

439
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 4: Southport is the biggest parole office in Queensland, followed by Logan,

440
00:23:27,241 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 4: follow Bake ipswitch there are you are only two options

441
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:33,241
Speaker 4: pretty much and Southport you're here from. So many offenders

442
00:23:33,521 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 4: don't report to South Coast Region. We're the harshest region

443
00:23:36,961 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 4: there is. So we had an father and son that

444
00:23:40,521 --> 00:23:43,481
Speaker 4: were on parole together for And I think I've listened

445
00:23:43,521 --> 00:23:45,521
Speaker 4: to some of your guests previously and they say the

446
00:23:45,521 --> 00:23:47,761
Speaker 4: same thing that I believe you're old school bank robbers,

447
00:23:47,761 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 4: you're old steel crims. They are amazing. They're respectful to

448
00:23:50,721 --> 00:23:54,201
Speaker 4: me what you're saying about the game. They play the game, guest, ma'am, no, ma'am.

449
00:23:54,281 --> 00:23:56,041
Speaker 4: Three bags fullmen, that's all I want to hear. Get

450
00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 4: out of my room. I don't care what you do

451
00:23:57,281 --> 00:24:00,721
Speaker 4: when you leave, Like, don't really care too much paperwork.

452
00:24:00,721 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 4: But they're so respectful. I'm respectful for them. It's that

453
00:24:03,961 --> 00:24:08,041
Speaker 4: mutual respect and then they do it so easy. So

454
00:24:08,201 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 4: they were those type of father and son that were

455
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 4: on parole for.

456
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,001
Speaker 1: So were they to offenders or were they just basically.

457
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,761
Speaker 4: Dad, the grandfather, the older when he was with us,

458
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: he was pushing eighty like out of prison. He's not

459
00:24:21,721 --> 00:24:22,961
Speaker 4: hurting anyone, let's be.

460
00:24:22,961 --> 00:24:25,761
Speaker 1: Honest, Like what just an old time knockabout kind of

461
00:24:25,801 --> 00:24:28,041
Speaker 1: guye or something that.

462
00:24:28,241 --> 00:24:31,801
Speaker 4: Yeah, So anyway, we had them our manager at the time,

463
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,001
Speaker 4: a male manager. One of their victims was a friend

464
00:24:35,041 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 4: of his from school. So we were told ride them

465
00:24:38,921 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 4: and make their life a living hell. Now, these two

466
00:24:41,921 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 4: older gentlemen, there was nothing to ride them for. They

467
00:24:44,481 --> 00:24:47,641
Speaker 4: were fantastic on parole. They weren't doing anything wrong. They're

468
00:24:47,681 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 4: not out using drugs. They're not about to hold up

469
00:24:49,681 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 4: a bank at eighty years of age, that's for sure.

470
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 4: So to be told to ride them, to have to

471
00:24:54,561 --> 00:24:56,721
Speaker 4: pull in every week an eighty year old to drug

472
00:24:56,761 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 4: test him just to annoy him, doesn't sit well with

473
00:24:59,481 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 4: me at all, but just because it was personal and

474
00:25:03,561 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 4: then just small things like that and just signing warrants.

475
00:25:07,681 --> 00:25:10,001
Speaker 4: Sign is warrant for us because we want to put

476
00:25:10,041 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 4: him back in because of X, Y and Z, like

477
00:25:11,761 --> 00:25:15,001
Speaker 4: something that's not even a risk related thing. And then

478
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 4: if you push back and say that's my name on

479
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,401
Speaker 4: the warrant, I'm not putting my name on it, Well,

480
00:25:18,441 --> 00:25:20,801
Speaker 4: guess what you're now going into this case load, which

481
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 4: was like one someone didn't want. So you're punished for

482
00:25:23,321 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 4: not doing what they want pretty much.

483
00:25:27,241 --> 00:25:31,201
Speaker 1: I know obviously the New South Wales system I spent

484
00:25:31,481 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: majority of my time in and they are harsh. I

485
00:25:35,241 --> 00:25:36,721
Speaker 1: know we touched on this the other day and you

486
00:25:36,761 --> 00:25:39,921
Speaker 1: were saying about the Queensland and New South Wales. There's

487
00:25:39,921 --> 00:25:42,401
Speaker 1: no sanctions in New South Wales. There's no thirty days,

488
00:25:42,481 --> 00:25:45,001
Speaker 1: sixty day. There's another that's shit. You breached, you breach.

489
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: So you know, hypothetically I had a three year parole period.

490
00:25:49,201 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: If I got through twelve months of it and slipped

491
00:25:52,041 --> 00:25:54,281
Speaker 1: up somewhere along the line, and let's just say it

492
00:25:54,321 --> 00:25:56,321
Speaker 1: was a dirty year. On say I was using drugs

493
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: or whatever, it's a breach. It is an instant mandatory

494
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: straight back in and you complete the two years that

495
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: were left on the three. So when you talk about

496
00:26:06,481 --> 00:26:10,041
Speaker 1: setting people up or people getting put in positions where

497
00:26:10,561 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: ethically they should not be due to the instructions of

498
00:26:15,801 --> 00:26:20,761
Speaker 1: senior workers in this space, that makes me fucking sick. Yeah,

499
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,321
Speaker 1: because the amount of people that give breach and look,

500
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,281
Speaker 1: like I said, for the listeners out there, and I

501
00:26:25,281 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of people that sit on the

502
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,521
Speaker 1: fence and I love you all, thank you very much

503
00:26:28,561 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: for tuning in because it is validated each time we

504
00:26:31,721 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: have a guest on their story and why, and this

505
00:26:34,961 --> 00:26:38,001
Speaker 1: is no different having Trichelle, and I think is such

506
00:26:38,041 --> 00:26:41,441
Speaker 1: an informative situation that we need to hear these stories.

507
00:26:41,481 --> 00:26:43,481
Speaker 1: And I don't generally pull people. I think I've only

508
00:26:43,481 --> 00:26:47,201
Speaker 1: ever had maybe one or two other guests from this

509
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: type of sort of background, just to give people that

510
00:26:50,041 --> 00:26:54,001
Speaker 1: education because so many people question things. It's like people

511
00:26:54,041 --> 00:26:56,561
Speaker 1: are questioning me, you know, with your matter. You know,

512
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: once it's done, you know, like you've spent X amount

513
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: of dollars, don't you know if you be there, you'll

514
00:27:00,521 --> 00:27:04,761
Speaker 1: be able to get Yeah, I'm getting shit, Queen quarter

515
00:27:04,801 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: mile llion dollars has gone in defending my case for

516
00:27:07,281 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: five years, like I A'm getting a fucking dollar, you

517
00:27:10,001 --> 00:27:11,801
Speaker 1: know what I mean. The best case scenario for me

518
00:27:11,921 --> 00:27:14,481
Speaker 1: or anybody else in that situation is a no bill,

519
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: not guilty, or no case to answer to. Simple worst

520
00:27:18,201 --> 00:27:20,841
Speaker 1: case is obviously jail and you lose it all anyway.

521
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:25,441
Speaker 1: But the biggest thing is is the difference between the states.

522
00:27:25,481 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: And I've gotten not a doubt in the world that

523
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,561
Speaker 1: your experience in this area would be warranted to say

524
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,521
Speaker 1: that it would be no different in any other.

525
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: State, probably not to be honest, like the only thing

526
00:27:39,561 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 4: I found, and obviously you've lived it different to what

527
00:27:42,321 --> 00:27:44,801
Speaker 4: I is. If we did have to communicate with New

528
00:27:44,801 --> 00:27:47,161
Speaker 4: Southlales corrections to the border like you said, is right

529
00:27:47,201 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 4: there to us, they're lazy, so we'd say, oh we

530
00:27:50,201 --> 00:27:53,561
Speaker 4: need this. Nah, like he's doing fine. We've see supervision,

531
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,521
Speaker 4: so they end supervision early if they're doing good. So

532
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 4: if you're doing really well on parole, you've still got

533
00:27:58,721 --> 00:28:00,561
Speaker 4: a year on parole or six months like no, you're

534
00:28:00,561 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 4: doing good, your prole's over, you're free to go. In Queensland,

535
00:28:03,681 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 4: we have to tell them you're on parole to midnight

536
00:28:05,801 --> 00:28:07,681
Speaker 4: the end of your thing. We can even come around

537
00:28:07,681 --> 00:28:10,121
Speaker 4: at ten pm the night we drill them. The night

538
00:28:10,201 --> 00:28:13,201
Speaker 4: is the end of your parole, a day you sentence ends.

539
00:28:13,321 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 4: So obviously you've had a different experience to what and

540
00:28:16,481 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 4: I've only seen it from talking to them, but it

541
00:28:18,481 --> 00:28:22,041
Speaker 4: wouldn't be much different. Like it's all government justice departments.

542
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 4: We're all told to do what we're meant to do.

543
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,721
Speaker 4: And if you say no, well.

544
00:28:28,921 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: When you say, you told what you meant to them,

545
00:28:30,561 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: and we always go on about you know, and I

546
00:28:33,001 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: know people get on rant's about oh, you know, the

547
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,641
Speaker 1: police need to hit a quota for money for booking

548
00:28:38,681 --> 00:28:40,561
Speaker 1: people and all this sort of shit and the government

549
00:28:40,681 --> 00:28:43,681
Speaker 1: needs to do this and this needs to happen. This

550
00:28:43,801 --> 00:28:46,561
Speaker 1: sounds like it's no different in that work environment.

551
00:28:46,841 --> 00:28:50,041
Speaker 4: Yeah, if anything, it's different on the opposite side now,

552
00:28:50,161 --> 00:28:51,921
Speaker 4: as in we're not allowed to put them back in.

553
00:28:52,361 --> 00:28:55,801
Speaker 4: It turned it went from that mandatory suspension days where

554
00:28:56,121 --> 00:28:59,761
Speaker 4: thirty day sanction straight in no matter what, to prisons

555
00:28:59,801 --> 00:29:02,081
Speaker 4: a triple bunks. We can't get them back in. You

556
00:29:02,161 --> 00:29:05,401
Speaker 4: need to do your best, and then that leads too,

557
00:29:05,601 --> 00:29:08,041
Speaker 4: so we'll have someone that is at real And I've

558
00:29:08,121 --> 00:29:10,601
Speaker 4: heard you speak about it that is a real bad person,

559
00:29:10,801 --> 00:29:13,521
Speaker 4: like this person's going to kill someone again, and they

560
00:29:13,721 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 4: will say to our management, will say, this person is

561
00:29:16,881 --> 00:29:20,401
Speaker 4: threatening to kill this person. This person's off their faces,

562
00:29:20,481 --> 00:29:22,961
Speaker 4: they're doing this whatever, and they're like, yeah, sorry, triple bunk,

563
00:29:23,081 --> 00:29:25,601
Speaker 4: just manage it. You'll be fine, you'll be fine. And

564
00:29:25,641 --> 00:29:29,481
Speaker 4: then they go and we had one go and kill someone,

565
00:29:30,081 --> 00:29:33,161
Speaker 4: please shot him. And then my ass is dragged over

566
00:29:33,201 --> 00:29:35,401
Speaker 4: the line saying why didn't you do this? Why didn't

567
00:29:35,441 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 4: you do that? And it comes from higher above management

568
00:29:38,281 --> 00:29:40,121
Speaker 4: saying you can't, and where they're begging. We're like, this

569
00:29:40,161 --> 00:29:42,921
Speaker 4: person's going to kill someone. I know they will, And

570
00:29:42,961 --> 00:29:46,281
Speaker 4: even the magistrates they're like, nah, sorry, prisons are full.

571
00:29:46,321 --> 00:29:47,401
Speaker 4: We can't do anything with them.

572
00:29:47,481 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: So you're saying at the moment and sorry, I just

573
00:29:50,761 --> 00:29:54,961
Speaker 1: wanted to be specific because this is interesting. Those sanctioned

574
00:29:55,041 --> 00:29:58,561
Speaker 1: days were very well. It was just common. You knew

575
00:29:58,601 --> 00:30:00,081
Speaker 1: that if you got done with the dirty you're doing

576
00:30:00,121 --> 00:30:02,201
Speaker 1: a thirty day or sixty or whatever it was. People

577
00:30:02,241 --> 00:30:04,601
Speaker 1: didn't mind doing it because it was just time to

578
00:30:04,641 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: dry out. Well, whether they dry it out or not,

579
00:30:07,361 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: but anyway, they drying out in there. I was going

580
00:30:10,841 --> 00:30:12,881
Speaker 1: to say, as we both know there's not much drying

581
00:30:12,921 --> 00:30:16,081
Speaker 1: out in there, but in saying that at the same time,

582
00:30:16,241 --> 00:30:20,681
Speaker 1: for that person really shouldn't be breached. That may have

583
00:30:20,761 --> 00:30:25,121
Speaker 1: a genuine explanation, but doesn't fall within the guidelines as such,

584
00:30:25,161 --> 00:30:28,121
Speaker 1: and gives you still that power to be breached. Back

585
00:30:28,161 --> 00:30:30,641
Speaker 1: then we'd be breached. Yeah, very hard, very hard to

586
00:30:30,641 --> 00:30:32,681
Speaker 1: walk it. Like you said, you walk in there, next

587
00:30:32,681 --> 00:30:34,601
Speaker 1: minute you're in the back room, you're in cuffs, they're

588
00:30:34,681 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: taking out. You're gone as it stands at the moment.

589
00:30:37,441 --> 00:30:40,801
Speaker 1: And I will vouch for that. You know. I had

590
00:30:40,841 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: to go back into custody on this matter two Thy

591
00:30:44,161 --> 00:30:48,601
Speaker 1: twenty two and I had never seen the R and

592
00:30:48,761 --> 00:30:51,601
Speaker 1: L or any Queensley in jail because of all my

593
00:30:51,801 --> 00:30:55,161
Speaker 1: time had been done in New South Wales. And I

594
00:30:55,281 --> 00:30:58,601
Speaker 1: was shocked. I was shocked at just the caliber of

595
00:30:59,041 --> 00:31:01,161
Speaker 1: I guess some of the criminals in there, because most

596
00:31:01,161 --> 00:31:07,201
Speaker 1: of it was devo breaches and the fact that Queensland

597
00:31:07,361 --> 00:31:11,641
Speaker 1: jails were one out cells that were forced to out,

598
00:31:11,721 --> 00:31:15,601
Speaker 1: so there was two mattresses in the cells. One had

599
00:31:15,601 --> 00:31:18,841
Speaker 1: to sleep with his head or feet basically at the

600
00:31:18,881 --> 00:31:22,281
Speaker 1: peace house, at the toilet or at the door. And

601
00:31:22,521 --> 00:31:24,081
Speaker 1: what option are you going to do if the screws

602
00:31:24,081 --> 00:31:26,321
Speaker 1: crack the door or walk in and step on your head.

603
00:31:26,761 --> 00:31:29,841
Speaker 1: That ain't real cool and vice versa, you know what

604
00:31:29,841 --> 00:31:31,161
Speaker 1: I mean. Like the bloke's got to get up in

605
00:31:31,201 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: the middle of the night and go to the toilet,

606
00:31:32,481 --> 00:31:34,041
Speaker 1: what do you do? Wake the bloke up? Stand over

607
00:31:34,121 --> 00:31:37,641
Speaker 1: the top of like, how is that even okay? And

608
00:31:37,721 --> 00:31:41,281
Speaker 1: yet now when you explain it that they're triple bunking

609
00:31:41,321 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: and this sort of stuff, I can see exactly what

610
00:31:43,881 --> 00:31:46,121
Speaker 1: you're talking about, Like I've seen it as a double

611
00:31:46,161 --> 00:31:49,361
Speaker 1: so to see you even think that those cells are

612
00:31:49,361 --> 00:31:54,081
Speaker 1: triple bunk is just the most unhygienic, unhumane way of

613
00:31:54,281 --> 00:31:56,921
Speaker 1: treating anybody or leaving.

614
00:31:57,241 --> 00:32:00,241
Speaker 4: Breaching your prole Now I joke, you get a lollipop

615
00:32:00,281 --> 00:32:02,841
Speaker 4: in a hug, they don't put anyone back in anymore.

616
00:32:02,921 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 4: They just don't do it. It has to be an Obviously,

617
00:32:05,521 --> 00:32:06,481
Speaker 4: there'll be people that say time.

618
00:32:06,481 --> 00:32:09,121
Speaker 1: Unless there's a serious offense in your own custody. Not

619
00:32:09,161 --> 00:32:10,761
Speaker 1: But if you're just going to walk in a piece

620
00:32:10,761 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: in a cup and say, all right, you've had coke

621
00:32:12,561 --> 00:32:15,401
Speaker 1: last weekend, or you had a bit, or you've got

622
00:32:15,401 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: a value in your system.

623
00:32:16,921 --> 00:32:19,241
Speaker 4: Or you've traveled to New South Wales without permission, you're

624
00:32:19,241 --> 00:32:21,081
Speaker 4: not going back in that's for sure. It has to

625
00:32:21,161 --> 00:32:24,401
Speaker 4: be a serious breach. Now, I think we were talking

626
00:32:24,401 --> 00:32:28,041
Speaker 4: about it that it's very media and politically based. So

627
00:32:28,161 --> 00:32:29,561
Speaker 4: what you were saying, there's a lot of breaches a

628
00:32:29,641 --> 00:32:31,721
Speaker 4: DVO and that in custody because that's what's big at

629
00:32:31,721 --> 00:32:33,961
Speaker 4: the moment. So is DV biger.

630
00:32:34,161 --> 00:32:34,321
Speaker 1: No.

631
00:32:34,761 --> 00:32:37,561
Speaker 4: Is there more DV offenders. No, it's just because that's

632
00:32:37,601 --> 00:32:40,601
Speaker 4: what the general public want people to think they're cracking

633
00:32:40,641 --> 00:32:43,041
Speaker 4: down on. So the prisons now got all these DV

634
00:32:43,121 --> 00:32:46,121
Speaker 4: offenders and I think you probably remember the days back

635
00:32:46,121 --> 00:32:48,281
Speaker 4: in those manastry suspensions when it was all about the

636
00:32:48,321 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 4: vlad laws.

637
00:32:48,961 --> 00:32:50,041
Speaker 1: The biki the bikis.

638
00:32:50,161 --> 00:32:53,641
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we put them in pink jumpsuits. We did the most.

639
00:32:53,801 --> 00:32:54,801
Speaker 4: How is that humane?

640
00:32:55,281 --> 00:32:57,401
Speaker 1: Well, that was not just that they were forced to

641
00:32:57,401 --> 00:32:59,361
Speaker 1: be in segro like Look, don't get me wrong, when

642
00:32:59,361 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: did he use segro? But that was gang related, So

643
00:33:02,441 --> 00:33:05,721
Speaker 1: you played up. That's just what happened. But you didn't

644
00:33:05,721 --> 00:33:08,561
Speaker 1: go straight out of reception straight into a segre unless

645
00:33:08,561 --> 00:33:11,041
Speaker 1: you're no good or bomb protection or whatever. You went

646
00:33:11,081 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: into the main jail and if you acted accordingly. The

647
00:33:14,241 --> 00:33:16,321
Speaker 1: screws left you alone. You did your jail on that

648
00:33:16,441 --> 00:33:18,121
Speaker 1: was that. But if you played up, then the squad

649
00:33:18,161 --> 00:33:20,041
Speaker 1: had come in and you get your warnings. The next

650
00:33:20,041 --> 00:33:22,881
Speaker 1: month you'd be off to stg or whatever it is

651
00:33:23,001 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: up in here in Queensline or but it was something

652
00:33:26,601 --> 00:33:29,121
Speaker 1: that you did not want to be in. Yea, they

653
00:33:29,161 --> 00:33:32,001
Speaker 1: made it that that was exactly if you were related

654
00:33:32,041 --> 00:33:35,601
Speaker 1: to any gang affiliation or biking under the vlad Luws,

655
00:33:35,961 --> 00:33:41,001
Speaker 1: you were instantly humiliated and basically locked down time.

656
00:33:41,201 --> 00:33:42,841
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were full of bikers the time. Now they're

657
00:33:42,841 --> 00:33:46,281
Speaker 4: full of DV offenders, and then it's what they want

658
00:33:46,361 --> 00:33:49,361
Speaker 4: to believe. So while there actually are these bad people,

659
00:33:49,401 --> 00:33:51,641
Speaker 4: and I think we touched on it like your child

660
00:33:51,721 --> 00:33:55,761
Speaker 4: sex offenders, any sex offenders that are running free because

661
00:33:55,921 --> 00:33:57,641
Speaker 4: nobody kicks about.

662
00:33:57,401 --> 00:34:00,321
Speaker 1: It, can you just explain for our listeners that because

663
00:34:00,561 --> 00:34:03,921
Speaker 1: fuck may excuse my Italian, French, German and whatever else

664
00:34:03,921 --> 00:34:06,961
Speaker 1: you want to call that language. I'm absolutely gobsmacked at

665
00:34:06,961 --> 00:34:10,681
Speaker 1: that information because I've never heard anybody explain to me

666
00:34:11,241 --> 00:34:15,641
Speaker 1: why these putrid scum of the earth don't get the

667
00:34:15,681 --> 00:34:18,201
Speaker 1: sentences that Johnny gets for going down and getting all

668
00:34:18,241 --> 00:34:20,721
Speaker 1: scuffling in the pub, has a brawl, you know, which

669
00:34:20,801 --> 00:34:23,681
Speaker 1: is pretty common in Australia pub fight. Whatever, he might

670
00:34:23,761 --> 00:34:26,361
Speaker 1: hit a bloke with his fist and break his skin,

671
00:34:26,481 --> 00:34:30,001
Speaker 1: grievous bodily harm, that's a jailable offense straight up. Now,

672
00:34:30,001 --> 00:34:32,081
Speaker 1: he may have had history and all of a sudden

673
00:34:32,081 --> 00:34:35,601
Speaker 1: the judges right, I'm doing six months or twelve months right, Really,

674
00:34:36,201 --> 00:34:38,001
Speaker 1: the bloke might have just had a bad diet and

675
00:34:38,001 --> 00:34:39,961
Speaker 1: it might have been provoked. Whatever the case might bad.

676
00:34:40,001 --> 00:34:42,561
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to justify it once again, but I'm

677
00:34:42,561 --> 00:34:45,481
Speaker 1: being realistic. Yet you can have and as to someone

678
00:34:45,521 --> 00:34:49,321
Speaker 1: who is a sexually abused survivor and mate, I was

679
00:34:49,401 --> 00:34:52,161
Speaker 1: raped as a kid by several people. So I'm very

680
00:34:52,401 --> 00:34:56,681
Speaker 1: strong advocate for anybody who commits these offenses. When you

681
00:34:56,801 --> 00:35:01,601
Speaker 1: told me how it's seen and why I'm still processing it,

682
00:35:01,641 --> 00:35:04,201
Speaker 1: and that was not yesterday, David Boiler, was a few

683
00:35:04,281 --> 00:35:08,681
Speaker 1: days ago now. So for our listeners please in detail,

684
00:35:08,761 --> 00:35:10,401
Speaker 1: can you give this fact.

685
00:35:11,081 --> 00:35:14,201
Speaker 4: So when we brought out in Queensland your caught or

686
00:35:14,241 --> 00:35:17,881
Speaker 4: to parole orders under the Penalties and Sentences Act. So

687
00:35:17,961 --> 00:35:21,201
Speaker 4: if you're sentenced in Queensland to under three years imprisonment

688
00:35:21,321 --> 00:35:24,521
Speaker 4: for anything, you get a parole release date, so you

689
00:35:24,561 --> 00:35:27,041
Speaker 4: get told or you can get quarter a parole straight

690
00:35:27,081 --> 00:35:27,561
Speaker 4: from court.

691
00:35:27,681 --> 00:35:30,201
Speaker 1: So you say automatic parole, is that what you're referring.

692
00:35:29,921 --> 00:35:30,881
Speaker 4: To automatic parole?

693
00:35:31,121 --> 00:35:33,161
Speaker 1: So a two two years and under a new South

694
00:35:33,161 --> 00:35:36,361
Speaker 1: Wales is automatic parole and three.

695
00:35:35,881 --> 00:35:38,761
Speaker 4: So anything three years and under you get automatic parole.

696
00:35:39,081 --> 00:35:43,401
Speaker 4: So there are two exceptions to that rule. So an

697
00:35:43,521 --> 00:35:46,601
Speaker 4: SVO serious violent offender cannot get caught or to parole.

698
00:35:46,641 --> 00:35:49,801
Speaker 4: So a serious violent offender is someone that's declared, so

699
00:35:49,801 --> 00:35:51,241
Speaker 4: it could be a drug traffick, it doesn't have to

700
00:35:51,241 --> 00:35:55,241
Speaker 4: be violence. Anyone that's declared. They have to spend eighty

701
00:35:55,281 --> 00:35:59,081
Speaker 4: percent of their in custody so they can't get caught

702
00:35:59,161 --> 00:36:01,441
Speaker 4: or a parole, which those type of people will always

703
00:36:01,441 --> 00:36:04,641
Speaker 4: get over three years anyway, so they'll get a parole eligibility.

704
00:36:04,761 --> 00:36:07,721
Speaker 4: The other one that's exempt is sex offenders, so you

705
00:36:07,801 --> 00:36:10,881
Speaker 4: cannot be sentenced to call to parole for a sexual offense.

706
00:36:11,401 --> 00:36:14,921
Speaker 4: What that means is that the justice system is limited

707
00:36:15,001 --> 00:36:17,521
Speaker 4: with what they can sentence them to. They either have

708
00:36:17,601 --> 00:36:21,321
Speaker 4: to sentence them to over three years in prisonment with

709
00:36:21,561 --> 00:36:25,401
Speaker 4: a parole eligibility date, which and these people that think

710
00:36:25,441 --> 00:36:28,081
Speaker 4: these are a victimist crime. I debate to differ you

711
00:36:28,161 --> 00:36:31,161
Speaker 4: CEM your child expectation MATERI. They're still a victim there,

712
00:36:31,641 --> 00:36:34,361
Speaker 4: but the justice system doesn't warrant that that's a three

713
00:36:34,441 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 4: year or over sentence or any child sex offense or whatever.

714
00:36:38,041 --> 00:36:40,401
Speaker 4: So the only options they have is to give them

715
00:36:40,481 --> 00:36:43,921
Speaker 4: a prison sentence for a short time and a full

716
00:36:43,921 --> 00:36:45,881
Speaker 4: release so you never get parole, so you don't get

717
00:36:45,881 --> 00:36:47,761
Speaker 4: that guy, no one's watching them when they come out,

718
00:36:48,041 --> 00:36:51,801
Speaker 4: or probation. So probation is the step down from parole.

719
00:36:51,921 --> 00:36:54,081
Speaker 4: It's nothing, it's not worth the paper they're written on.

720
00:36:54,161 --> 00:36:56,161
Speaker 4: You can't do anything with them, you can't breach them.

721
00:36:56,681 --> 00:37:00,281
Speaker 4: So sex offenders are getting nothing pretty much. They're getting

722
00:37:00,321 --> 00:37:03,601
Speaker 4: off scott free because under penalties and sentence you cannot

723
00:37:03,641 --> 00:37:04,841
Speaker 4: get called or to parole.

724
00:37:05,841 --> 00:37:08,681
Speaker 1: There you have it, guys, there is a fact. And

725
00:37:09,081 --> 00:37:11,841
Speaker 1: I had no idea about this. I always have wondered why,

726
00:37:11,841 --> 00:37:13,801
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's hundreds of people out there that

727
00:37:13,841 --> 00:37:17,201
Speaker 1: have had the same question. Why. How can they destroy

728
00:37:17,281 --> 00:37:21,521
Speaker 1: the life of any human being child, take their innocence,

729
00:37:21,681 --> 00:37:25,761
Speaker 1: and just completely destroy their futures, which it does a

730
00:37:25,801 --> 00:37:27,481
Speaker 1: lot of people can't live with it. A lot of

731
00:37:27,481 --> 00:37:31,241
Speaker 1: people take their lives. They enough addicts. Like we could

732
00:37:31,281 --> 00:37:32,681
Speaker 1: go on about it, and I don't want to touch

733
00:37:32,721 --> 00:37:34,761
Speaker 1: too much because I don't want to trigger anybody out there.

734
00:37:34,801 --> 00:37:38,041
Speaker 1: And please, guys, if you are struggling, do seek help

735
00:37:38,081 --> 00:37:40,041
Speaker 1: and reach out and look, you more than welcome to

736
00:37:40,121 --> 00:37:44,481
Speaker 1: DM myself or anybody else through my channels and we

737
00:37:44,561 --> 00:37:47,561
Speaker 1: will definitely listen and have a chat. But it's a

738
00:37:47,601 --> 00:37:49,881
Speaker 1: conversation that needs to be had because no one's got

739
00:37:49,881 --> 00:37:53,161
Speaker 1: the balls one to talk about it. So you're a female,

740
00:37:57,001 --> 00:38:00,161
Speaker 1: but this is something that has to be spoken of.

741
00:38:00,321 --> 00:38:02,841
Speaker 1: It needs to be said because how do we know

742
00:38:03,121 --> 00:38:05,201
Speaker 1: the facts and the truth if we don't have anybody

743
00:38:05,241 --> 00:38:07,201
Speaker 1: that's willing to actually tell us. Because this is all

744
00:38:07,401 --> 00:38:10,321
Speaker 1: undercover shit. This is the stuff no one wants anybody

745
00:38:10,361 --> 00:38:10,641
Speaker 1: to know.

746
00:38:10,881 --> 00:38:13,241
Speaker 4: They won't. They'll say it's not because it's in the legislation.

747
00:38:13,481 --> 00:38:16,441
Speaker 4: It's there. It's like the Center Penalties and CENTERSAC says

748
00:38:16,521 --> 00:38:20,961
Speaker 4: you cannot sentence. But you'll see most magistrates these days

749
00:38:21,521 --> 00:38:24,921
Speaker 4: very wary to sentence anyone to long sentences of three years,

750
00:38:24,921 --> 00:38:28,401
Speaker 4: four years, ten years. They're not doing it. So for

751
00:38:28,561 --> 00:38:32,081
Speaker 4: your really serious child rate ones. Yes, they're going to

752
00:38:32,081 --> 00:38:34,681
Speaker 4: get a longer sentence than that, but even when the

753
00:38:34,761 --> 00:38:38,321
Speaker 4: child's the victim, proving that is so hard. So they're

754
00:38:38,361 --> 00:38:41,401
Speaker 4: getting these lighter sentences because they're getting them downgraded, they're

755
00:38:41,441 --> 00:38:45,281
Speaker 4: getting whatever. And I heard one of your guests too,

756
00:38:45,801 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 4: I think it was the police officer that said, I

757
00:38:49,481 --> 00:38:52,841
Speaker 4: love working with most offenders most and like I said,

758
00:38:52,881 --> 00:38:55,801
Speaker 4: your old school ones are great. Child sex offenders are

759
00:38:55,801 --> 00:38:58,481
Speaker 4: the only ones that will never admit to their crime.

760
00:38:58,841 --> 00:39:02,001
Speaker 4: They'll blame the victim they wanted it, or they'll they'll

761
00:39:02,001 --> 00:39:04,961
Speaker 4: minimize it all the time, all the time. And they're

762
00:39:05,161 --> 00:39:07,921
Speaker 4: the ones that are getting these probation orders where we're like,

763
00:39:07,961 --> 00:39:10,441
Speaker 4: please go see a counselor like yeah, and okay, we

764
00:39:10,481 --> 00:39:13,921
Speaker 4: can't do anything, mate. I don't know what's got to change, but.

765
00:39:14,601 --> 00:39:17,081
Speaker 1: I think the hardest thing is too And as a survivor,

766
00:39:17,121 --> 00:39:19,921
Speaker 1: and I've worked in the space of assisting survivors over

767
00:39:19,921 --> 00:39:23,961
Speaker 1: the years where I can't disclose a lot of information,

768
00:39:24,121 --> 00:39:28,721
Speaker 1: but I can say where I would basically notate what

769
00:39:28,841 --> 00:39:31,281
Speaker 1: had taken place and then forward it to the right

770
00:39:31,361 --> 00:39:35,481
Speaker 1: channels through the people I was working with and further

771
00:39:35,521 --> 00:39:37,841
Speaker 1: down the track. Once some of those persons had gotten

772
00:39:38,001 --> 00:39:41,721
Speaker 1: into the court system, what was done to them to

773
00:39:41,801 --> 00:39:45,841
Speaker 1: make them look like absolute liars and just complete ubsolutely

774
00:39:46,001 --> 00:39:50,001
Speaker 1: full of shit. It was horrific. Like I get a defenseler,

775
00:39:50,121 --> 00:39:53,721
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. We need barristers, QCs or cases

776
00:39:53,801 --> 00:39:57,801
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call them today. And not everybody

777
00:39:58,001 --> 00:40:01,241
Speaker 1: is guilty, like there are allegations and some people do

778
00:40:01,321 --> 00:40:04,601
Speaker 1: get accusers like DV you know, like males females. The

779
00:40:04,761 --> 00:40:06,641
Speaker 1: story is made up And I'm not going to get

780
00:40:06,641 --> 00:40:09,201
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole because that's not what this podcast

781
00:40:09,281 --> 00:40:12,201
Speaker 1: is about. We don't sort of do that. But there's

782
00:40:12,241 --> 00:40:15,481
Speaker 1: lies generally around each matter. There's always someone that's not happy,

783
00:40:15,481 --> 00:40:17,441
Speaker 1: that's going to tell a porky pie somewhere along the

784
00:40:17,441 --> 00:40:20,921
Speaker 1: line to fuck someone up. But when you've got children,

785
00:40:21,201 --> 00:40:26,321
Speaker 1: innocent children that have shared a horrific con traumatic experience

786
00:40:27,161 --> 00:40:29,521
Speaker 1: and then have to be put into a court system

787
00:40:29,561 --> 00:40:32,041
Speaker 1: to only be made out to be a liar, and

788
00:40:32,121 --> 00:40:34,001
Speaker 1: I personally know people that have had to go through

789
00:40:34,041 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: this is just it's just disgusting, you know. And then

790
00:40:38,481 --> 00:40:41,201
Speaker 1: the perpetrators are able to just sit there with a

791
00:40:41,201 --> 00:40:43,601
Speaker 1: big smile on their face, rubbing their hands together. Licking

792
00:40:43,641 --> 00:40:46,001
Speaker 1: their lips thinking I'm out of you soon and I'm

793
00:40:46,001 --> 00:40:49,881
Speaker 1: off again. Like us offenders that have been involved in

794
00:40:50,201 --> 00:40:52,761
Speaker 1: organized chrime, serious crime, whatever you want to call it,

795
00:40:53,321 --> 00:40:57,041
Speaker 1: we cop the wrath of them all full hand, full hand.

796
00:40:57,761 --> 00:41:00,361
Speaker 1: And if you're caught out to be lying, or you're

797
00:41:00,401 --> 00:41:03,961
Speaker 1: caught out to be you know, dishonest in your situation

798
00:41:04,121 --> 00:41:06,801
Speaker 1: where you plead not guilty when you should plead guilty,

799
00:41:06,841 --> 00:41:10,241
Speaker 1: your sentence indication grows like you're you're going to get

800
00:41:10,281 --> 00:41:13,041
Speaker 1: a higher sentence if you plead not guilty to something,

801
00:41:13,081 --> 00:41:15,681
Speaker 1: as opposed to first putting your hand up with something.

802
00:41:15,721 --> 00:41:17,881
Speaker 1: So for example, I got done for importation. I copped

803
00:41:17,921 --> 00:41:19,121
Speaker 1: it on the chin, I put my hand up. I

804
00:41:19,121 --> 00:41:20,641
Speaker 1: was looking at ten years and I copped a six

805
00:41:20,761 --> 00:41:24,161
Speaker 1: year sentence. Now why because I didn't waste the courts time?

806
00:41:24,401 --> 00:41:27,241
Speaker 1: You get a twenty percent reduction, blah blah blah blah blah,

807
00:41:27,241 --> 00:41:29,841
Speaker 1: Not because of any other way. And there's no statements,

808
00:41:29,841 --> 00:41:31,761
Speaker 1: there's no co offend, there's nothing like that. Right, so

809
00:41:32,241 --> 00:41:35,041
Speaker 1: pure and simple just got me. That was it, controlled

810
00:41:35,081 --> 00:41:39,881
Speaker 1: delivery done. You don't see that across the board when

811
00:41:39,881 --> 00:41:42,521
Speaker 1: it comes to other styles of offending and you.

812
00:41:42,521 --> 00:41:46,321
Speaker 4: Definitely don't see them ever pleading guilty. Ever, they're never

813
00:41:46,321 --> 00:41:49,681
Speaker 4: given up. And now, working on the defense side, what

814
00:41:49,721 --> 00:41:52,721
Speaker 4: you just said is exactly what a good defense lawyer

815
00:41:52,801 --> 00:41:56,041
Speaker 4: will say, is that here's the evidence, here's what we have.

816
00:41:56,801 --> 00:41:59,681
Speaker 4: You need to plead guilty by doing if you do X,

817
00:41:59,761 --> 00:42:01,161
Speaker 4: Y and Z, and we do this, we're going to

818
00:42:01,161 --> 00:42:03,521
Speaker 4: try to get you the best sentence. But pleading not

819
00:42:03,561 --> 00:42:05,561
Speaker 4: guilty is going to make it a lot harder yourself,

820
00:42:05,641 --> 00:42:07,601
Speaker 4: and a good defense lie will tell you that. They

821
00:42:07,641 --> 00:42:09,481
Speaker 4: will not tell you to plead not guilty. Let's got

822
00:42:09,481 --> 00:42:12,841
Speaker 4: a trial that and make your sentence harder. A good

823
00:42:12,881 --> 00:42:16,521
Speaker 4: defense lie will do everything to get you the best

824
00:42:16,561 --> 00:42:19,561
Speaker 4: outcome based on what actually is the evidence and what

825
00:42:19,601 --> 00:42:21,441
Speaker 4: the facts are. And the facts are if you did it,

826
00:42:21,481 --> 00:42:24,161
Speaker 4: you did it, own it, but let's work on getting

827
00:42:24,161 --> 00:42:26,361
Speaker 4: the lighter sentence. But you could say that to the

828
00:42:26,401 --> 00:42:29,481
Speaker 4: cows come home to some of these other offenses or offenders,

829
00:42:29,721 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 4: they won't do it. I'm not pleading guilty. I didn't

830
00:42:31,521 --> 00:42:34,161
Speaker 4: do it. I didn't do it. And all the evidence, videos,

831
00:42:34,201 --> 00:42:36,601
Speaker 4: everything shows they did it, still won't admit it.

832
00:42:37,161 --> 00:42:39,521
Speaker 1: That in itself must be very difficult for a defense

833
00:42:39,601 --> 00:42:44,201
Speaker 1: load because obviously you're engaged to defend a person who

834
00:42:44,761 --> 00:42:50,441
Speaker 1: is allegedly well charged, but it's all allegation till proven

835
00:42:51,321 --> 00:42:54,081
Speaker 1: that you know damn well that you're not going to

836
00:42:54,121 --> 00:42:56,241
Speaker 1: beat it. You give that advice to the client. And

837
00:42:56,641 --> 00:42:59,201
Speaker 1: I'll speak once again on my own experience in the

838
00:42:59,241 --> 00:43:01,241
Speaker 1: last few years. I got loaded up with a bunch

839
00:43:01,321 --> 00:43:03,721
Speaker 1: of stuff and you know, one come down to this

840
00:43:03,841 --> 00:43:07,001
Speaker 1: tiny little technical after two years and the runners with

841
00:43:07,041 --> 00:43:09,161
Speaker 1: the district court judge goes, why you even here? Why

842
00:43:09,201 --> 00:43:11,161
Speaker 1: wasn't this dealt within a local court as a fine.

843
00:43:11,921 --> 00:43:15,321
Speaker 1: It was just ludicrous, but there was obviously a motive

844
00:43:15,441 --> 00:43:19,081
Speaker 1: behind it. We'll leave it at that, And they continued

845
00:43:19,081 --> 00:43:22,401
Speaker 1: to pursue, pursue, pursued to the eleventh hour where they

846
00:43:22,441 --> 00:43:27,161
Speaker 1: actually conceded that they needed to change the charges dramatically

847
00:43:27,601 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: to which was a finable offense. But where I'm going

848
00:43:30,441 --> 00:43:34,121
Speaker 1: with that is my legal team got to that moment

849
00:43:34,201 --> 00:43:37,761
Speaker 1: where we knew we had a very strong case. We

850
00:43:37,761 --> 00:43:40,121
Speaker 1: were going to knock it over, but there was just

851
00:43:40,121 --> 00:43:44,041
Speaker 1: a small, tiny, little technicality they didn't charge with, but

852
00:43:44,081 --> 00:43:46,921
Speaker 1: they had in their back pocket and were suggestive that hey,

853
00:43:47,481 --> 00:43:51,241
Speaker 1: this would trigger a suspended sentence if that comes up

854
00:43:51,241 --> 00:43:53,881
Speaker 1: in court, and that suspended sentence was pause because it

855
00:43:53,921 --> 00:43:56,761
Speaker 1: was a five year suspended sentence at three years because

856
00:43:56,761 --> 00:43:58,201
Speaker 1: it had already completed too, so it would have been

857
00:43:58,201 --> 00:44:01,401
Speaker 1: a three year suspended sentence, you know. So that's what

858
00:44:01,481 --> 00:44:03,881
Speaker 1: it came down to. That was their biggest stand made.

859
00:44:04,321 --> 00:44:06,921
Speaker 1: But that would triggered because it was a criminal offense,

860
00:44:07,761 --> 00:44:10,201
Speaker 1: you know. So it wasn't in the brief, wasn't he

861
00:44:10,321 --> 00:44:14,081
Speaker 1: wasn't there, it wasn't submitted, you know, my sentence. And

862
00:44:14,161 --> 00:44:17,001
Speaker 1: the eleventh out was the ace Trump that they pulled

863
00:44:17,001 --> 00:44:19,841
Speaker 1: out because I knew that they were gonna get knocked over.

864
00:44:19,961 --> 00:44:23,401
Speaker 1: And you know, but my defense lawyer did say exactly that, Brent,

865
00:44:23,641 --> 00:44:26,321
Speaker 1: You're going to have to just accept that we can't

866
00:44:26,321 --> 00:44:30,721
Speaker 1: beat this. Yeah, so it makes it very difficult, you know.

867
00:44:30,841 --> 00:44:34,441
Speaker 1: But when you're talking about, you know, the offenses in

868
00:44:34,561 --> 00:44:36,561
Speaker 1: relation to what you you know, we're speaking of them,

869
00:44:36,561 --> 00:44:38,441
Speaker 1: and it's it's just disgusting.

870
00:44:38,641 --> 00:44:41,601
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to because when I obviously first started

871
00:44:41,681 --> 00:44:45,201
Speaker 4: in parole, I said, I can't work with those people ever.

872
00:44:45,361 --> 00:44:47,881
Speaker 4: Like I had a son obviously at the time, I

873
00:44:47,921 --> 00:44:51,281
Speaker 4: can't work with anyone offenses against children whatever. And it's

874
00:44:51,281 --> 00:44:55,321
Speaker 4: sad that not long into the job, you're so desensitized

875
00:44:55,361 --> 00:44:58,201
Speaker 4: to everything. So I became a person I didn't like.

876
00:44:58,481 --> 00:45:02,041
Speaker 4: I'm very social, very outgoing. I'd never touched alcohol really

877
00:45:02,081 --> 00:45:04,241
Speaker 4: in my twenties. Maybe here and there. It was drinking

878
00:45:04,281 --> 00:45:07,601
Speaker 4: every night by five o'clock. I didn't remember anything I

879
00:45:07,601 --> 00:45:10,641
Speaker 4: saw or heard that day because you've just become so decent.

880
00:45:10,641 --> 00:45:13,601
Speaker 1: And I'm do you think though, that that's why there's

881
00:45:13,641 --> 00:45:17,321
Speaker 1: such a what's the word for it? It used to

882
00:45:17,361 --> 00:45:19,881
Speaker 1: be you know, like say with rugby league and all

883
00:45:19,961 --> 00:45:22,521
Speaker 1: sports groups. You know, they'd all get around and get

884
00:45:22,561 --> 00:45:25,641
Speaker 1: on the piece after the game and you know, play

885
00:45:25,721 --> 00:45:28,321
Speaker 1: up or whatever. Mean, it doesn't rarely happen anymore. But

886
00:45:28,441 --> 00:45:31,281
Speaker 1: I know, for a fat back in the day, when

887
00:45:31,321 --> 00:45:34,721
Speaker 1: I was in a club and I was doing certain

888
00:45:34,801 --> 00:45:37,681
Speaker 1: things that I had certain lawyers that would call me

889
00:45:37,721 --> 00:45:39,561
Speaker 1: on a Friday and say, what are you up to? Hey,

890
00:45:39,601 --> 00:45:41,921
Speaker 1: come and have a drink next thing. You know, them

891
00:45:41,921 --> 00:45:43,961
Speaker 1: and their other lawyer friends were all having a good

892
00:45:44,001 --> 00:45:46,841
Speaker 1: time right through the early hours of Saturday morning, and

893
00:45:47,481 --> 00:45:49,601
Speaker 1: most of them would actually drive home from wherever they

894
00:45:49,601 --> 00:45:52,321
Speaker 1: were off their chops. And here I was, you know,

895
00:45:52,401 --> 00:45:55,201
Speaker 1: I'm talking fifteen plus years nearly twenty years ago. I'm

896
00:45:55,201 --> 00:45:57,161
Speaker 1: thinking to myself, fucking, how does this you know, like

897
00:45:57,201 --> 00:45:59,881
Speaker 1: I'm the go to guy for all the lawyers, and

898
00:46:00,601 --> 00:46:03,081
Speaker 1: how cool you know I'm ringing. But then when you

899
00:46:03,121 --> 00:46:06,881
Speaker 1: put it into the terms of how they would I guess,

900
00:46:06,921 --> 00:46:11,481
Speaker 1: download or debrief because of this desensitization, you sort of

901
00:46:11,481 --> 00:46:12,201
Speaker 1: can understand.

902
00:46:12,801 --> 00:46:15,081
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is a big passionate thing. I am

903
00:46:15,081 --> 00:46:19,281
Speaker 4: with corrective services and nothing's changed to my awareness. But police,

904
00:46:19,361 --> 00:46:23,161
Speaker 4: even psychologists, ambulance that sort of thing. They have what's

905
00:46:23,201 --> 00:46:27,361
Speaker 4: called a vicarious trauma framework. So vicarious trauma is for

906
00:46:27,401 --> 00:46:31,281
Speaker 4: anyone that doesn't know where you get trauma from other people.

907
00:46:31,361 --> 00:46:34,241
Speaker 4: So from reading those QP nines, the police facts on

908
00:46:35,041 --> 00:46:38,721
Speaker 4: child sex offenses and murders, and as a young twenty

909
00:46:38,801 --> 00:46:41,681
Speaker 4: year old female reading that day in day out, speaking

910
00:46:41,721 --> 00:46:44,081
Speaker 4: to these people and then expected to go home, be

911
00:46:44,121 --> 00:46:46,801
Speaker 4: a mum, be a wife, do all that and just

912
00:46:46,881 --> 00:46:49,401
Speaker 4: ignore it, like get over it, get over it. Corrective

913
00:46:49,481 --> 00:46:52,801
Speaker 4: services still to this day do not have a vicaria.

914
00:46:52,841 --> 00:46:55,321
Speaker 4: We're told to suck it up, we're told to get

915
00:46:55,321 --> 00:46:58,921
Speaker 4: over it, garden up. That pretty much that it's got

916
00:46:58,921 --> 00:47:02,321
Speaker 4: to sit somewhere in all our staff and then to

917
00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:03,961
Speaker 4: be told that we're not allowed it. You get the

918
00:47:03,961 --> 00:47:06,121
Speaker 4: whole Oh we've got to work. Helpline you can call.

919
00:47:06,121 --> 00:47:09,081
Speaker 4: It's anonymous. It's not anonymous, you say to them at

920
00:47:09,161 --> 00:47:12,521
Speaker 4: any time, I'm not hoping you'll be put on leave.

921
00:47:12,761 --> 00:47:15,561
Speaker 4: You're know a lot of working wrong. So we're just

922
00:47:15,601 --> 00:47:18,001
Speaker 4: bottled it up. So the only outlet normally, and like

923
00:47:18,161 --> 00:47:21,481
Speaker 4: anyone that has addiction or whatever, that turns to something

924
00:47:21,801 --> 00:47:23,881
Speaker 4: for an outlet. We go to alcohol, we go to

925
00:47:24,001 --> 00:47:27,001
Speaker 4: something that numbs us. And it got to that point

926
00:47:27,041 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 4: to about the ten years being in the thing where

927
00:47:29,561 --> 00:47:31,321
Speaker 4: I was not a person I wanted to be. My

928
00:47:31,361 --> 00:47:34,881
Speaker 4: marriage had ended, I hated humans, I was drinking all

929
00:47:34,881 --> 00:47:36,921
Speaker 4: the time. I was not a nice person, and I

930
00:47:36,961 --> 00:47:41,081
Speaker 4: was never that person. So it bottles up somewhere.

931
00:47:41,841 --> 00:47:44,121
Speaker 1: It is, and I think it's a very valid conversation

932
00:47:44,241 --> 00:47:47,841
Speaker 1: to have because we'll deal with trauma so differently, but

933
00:47:48,241 --> 00:47:51,201
Speaker 1: it's not any different. You know, like you're talking about,

934
00:47:51,361 --> 00:47:53,841
Speaker 1: for example, someone and you would have dealt with many

935
00:47:53,881 --> 00:47:58,041
Speaker 1: a persons like myself as survivor who grew up turned

936
00:47:58,041 --> 00:48:01,081
Speaker 1: the drugs out the whole crime. I wore a mask

937
00:48:01,841 --> 00:48:04,001
Speaker 1: I wore a set of colors. This set of colors

938
00:48:04,041 --> 00:48:07,601
Speaker 1: I always said, was not to I guess, make me

939
00:48:07,681 --> 00:48:10,721
Speaker 1: feel hard or tough for you know, be a gangster

940
00:48:11,801 --> 00:48:13,681
Speaker 1: if I really take and strip it all back and

941
00:48:13,721 --> 00:48:16,961
Speaker 1: be truly honest. I was just a hurt, scared little

942
00:48:17,001 --> 00:48:19,241
Speaker 1: boy in a man's body that had never dealt with

943
00:48:19,281 --> 00:48:22,241
Speaker 1: the traumas that I knew that the more violent that

944
00:48:22,361 --> 00:48:25,121
Speaker 1: I was, the more dominant that I could be, and

945
00:48:25,161 --> 00:48:28,641
Speaker 1: the more presented I could be, no one would harm me,

946
00:48:28,881 --> 00:48:32,201
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So that was my dealing mechanisms,

947
00:48:32,241 --> 00:48:34,361
Speaker 1: I guess, of dealing with those traumas. Each of us

948
00:48:35,241 --> 00:48:36,961
Speaker 1: have a different way of doing it, you know, some

949
00:48:37,121 --> 00:48:40,321
Speaker 1: turn of alcohol, drugs, what have you. Suicide is a

950
00:48:40,401 --> 00:48:43,721
Speaker 1: huge thing, unfortunately in all spaces, you know. And then

951
00:48:43,801 --> 00:48:46,681
Speaker 1: I guess the expectations that are put upon you guys.

952
00:48:46,801 --> 00:48:50,441
Speaker 1: And I once again refer back to my podcast in Townsville,

953
00:48:50,441 --> 00:48:54,001
Speaker 1: where you've got all these wonderful people up there whom

954
00:48:54,321 --> 00:48:57,321
Speaker 1: are working in these spaces of helping our young people

955
00:48:57,401 --> 00:49:01,761
Speaker 1: to better their lives, and they're giving so much. But

956
00:49:01,841 --> 00:49:04,801
Speaker 1: there is so much happening up there, and it's not

957
00:49:04,881 --> 00:49:08,241
Speaker 1: so much the troubled youth. That is an issue. But

958
00:49:08,761 --> 00:49:11,921
Speaker 1: why are they not wanting to go to the issue

959
00:49:11,961 --> 00:49:15,081
Speaker 1: and listen to the youth Because there's a political agenda,

960
00:49:15,121 --> 00:49:19,121
Speaker 1: and that political agenda carries all the funding or the

961
00:49:19,161 --> 00:49:24,241
Speaker 1: networking and everything that happens around the space of assisting

962
00:49:24,281 --> 00:49:28,521
Speaker 1: and helping to better and reduce crime and give people

963
00:49:28,561 --> 00:49:31,961
Speaker 1: a better way of living. Now, either they follow and

964
00:49:32,041 --> 00:49:34,641
Speaker 1: kick along, or the funding gets pulled, they lose their

965
00:49:34,721 --> 00:49:38,121
Speaker 1: job and they become another statistic and struggle which then

966
00:49:38,161 --> 00:49:40,321
Speaker 1: puts them on that poverty of line and that line

967
00:49:40,361 --> 00:49:45,241
Speaker 1: of hardship. And these are people that genuinely have a

968
00:49:45,281 --> 00:49:48,201
Speaker 1: heart and true passion like yourself. I can see it

969
00:49:48,241 --> 00:49:51,921
Speaker 1: by looking at you and listening to our conversation. You're

970
00:49:51,961 --> 00:49:54,401
Speaker 1: doing what you're doing because you have a genuine passion

971
00:49:54,441 --> 00:49:56,201
Speaker 1: to want to help people. And that's why I really

972
00:49:56,281 --> 00:49:58,161
Speaker 1: wanted to get you on today, because I feel that

973
00:49:58,761 --> 00:50:01,281
Speaker 1: people don't get to hear the other side of it,

974
00:50:01,401 --> 00:50:01,921
Speaker 1: the truth.

975
00:50:02,441 --> 00:50:04,681
Speaker 4: And honestly, in my job, all I wanted to do

976
00:50:04,801 --> 00:50:08,321
Speaker 4: was every single person. But when you are like you said,

977
00:50:08,361 --> 00:50:12,281
Speaker 4: we don't have the funding because we don't, they don't

978
00:50:12,321 --> 00:50:14,601
Speaker 4: care enough. When these people are like we said that

979
00:50:14,641 --> 00:50:17,601
Speaker 4: revolving door. They're going in, they're going out. They're not educated,

980
00:50:17,841 --> 00:50:21,521
Speaker 4: they've obviously had a hard life, hard upbringing, that sort

981
00:50:21,561 --> 00:50:24,281
Speaker 4: of thing. Why aren't we educating them before they come out?

982
00:50:24,441 --> 00:50:27,041
Speaker 4: Why aren't we Because they're in maximum security, they don't

983
00:50:27,041 --> 00:50:29,281
Speaker 4: earn it, But then that person is going to go

984
00:50:29,361 --> 00:50:32,521
Speaker 4: back in. We are not spending the money on our prisoners.

985
00:50:32,561 --> 00:50:35,041
Speaker 4: We're not spending the money on our well. Like I said,

986
00:50:35,081 --> 00:50:37,601
Speaker 4: were meant to sit on thirty fifty paroleas we're sitting

987
00:50:37,601 --> 00:50:40,281
Speaker 4: on one hundred that I have to see in every week.

988
00:50:40,401 --> 00:50:42,201
Speaker 4: We can't help them because.

989
00:50:42,241 --> 00:50:46,081
Speaker 1: They've stripped all the educational programs out of any of

990
00:50:46,081 --> 00:50:48,481
Speaker 1: the systems. You used to be able to do a ticket.

991
00:50:48,521 --> 00:50:51,401
Speaker 1: You could do a university degree, you could do studying

992
00:50:51,481 --> 00:50:55,321
Speaker 1: of whatever. And when I was doing my long term sentence,

993
00:50:55,801 --> 00:50:58,441
Speaker 1: I loved the fact and even then it was still

994
00:50:58,521 --> 00:51:00,401
Speaker 1: months before you got an approved. We just putting what

995
00:51:00,401 --> 00:51:01,881
Speaker 1: we used to in New South Falst. It was called

996
00:51:01,881 --> 00:51:03,241
Speaker 1: a bluey, so you just had to put in a

997
00:51:03,681 --> 00:51:05,801
Speaker 1: blue you'd sit there and just get from Pipper to

998
00:51:05,841 --> 00:51:08,321
Speaker 1: Pipper and you wouldn't know where it was and you'd

999
00:51:08,321 --> 00:51:10,921
Speaker 1: ask about it. Oh yeah, somewhere in the system. But

1000
00:51:11,081 --> 00:51:13,001
Speaker 1: all you wanted to do was try and find a

1001
00:51:13,041 --> 00:51:16,121
Speaker 1: way to speed your time up, but utilize your time

1002
00:51:16,321 --> 00:51:20,521
Speaker 1: for a positive thing. Now when you can't do that,

1003
00:51:21,321 --> 00:51:25,721
Speaker 1: and then basically you're sitting there idling. Idle. Time's not

1004
00:51:25,801 --> 00:51:30,921
Speaker 1: good anybody, you know, especially in the system, people turn

1005
00:51:30,961 --> 00:51:35,521
Speaker 1: to drugs. Violence is huge, which then obviously creates more

1006
00:51:35,521 --> 00:51:39,081
Speaker 1: workload for you, which then obviously may get somebody who's

1007
00:51:39,161 --> 00:51:41,641
Speaker 1: looking at coming up for parole put into a vulnerable

1008
00:51:41,681 --> 00:51:46,121
Speaker 1: situation where they must act or defend themselves, which then

1009
00:51:46,161 --> 00:51:50,681
Speaker 1: could cost them extra time. There's so many variables around

1010
00:51:51,561 --> 00:51:52,201
Speaker 1: the process.

1011
00:51:53,921 --> 00:51:56,681
Speaker 4: And then, like you said, having them triple bund locking

1012
00:51:56,721 --> 00:51:59,321
Speaker 4: them down for five days because the cyclone's coming, Like,

1013
00:51:59,761 --> 00:52:01,321
Speaker 4: what do you think is going to happen? They're going

1014
00:52:01,361 --> 00:52:03,401
Speaker 4: to sit there, They're going to come up with better ideas,

1015
00:52:03,441 --> 00:52:06,641
Speaker 4: they're going to dwell on everything, let their brains work,

1016
00:52:06,761 --> 00:52:08,521
Speaker 4: or at least give them something to come out. And

1017
00:52:08,561 --> 00:52:12,161
Speaker 4: I know from personal experience from actually really good friends

1018
00:52:12,201 --> 00:52:14,441
Speaker 4: brother that is a gone through the system over and

1019
00:52:14,521 --> 00:52:17,241
Speaker 4: over again, and he's not a bad person. He just

1020
00:52:17,361 --> 00:52:19,801
Speaker 4: doesn't know how to survive out here because he's never

1021
00:52:20,161 --> 00:52:22,001
Speaker 4: got any back in. He doesn't have a ticket, he

1022
00:52:22,001 --> 00:52:24,721
Speaker 4: doesn't have an education. Where do we get to the

1023
00:52:24,761 --> 00:52:27,401
Speaker 4: point that we're like, we need to give this to them,

1024
00:52:27,681 --> 00:52:29,761
Speaker 4: but we just throw them out the door, expect them

1025
00:52:29,801 --> 00:52:32,681
Speaker 4: to be hunky door and not go back in it.

1026
00:52:32,681 --> 00:52:35,041
Speaker 4: It's just not And the money it comes down to

1027
00:52:35,041 --> 00:52:38,121
Speaker 4: government funding. I get that, but find the funding like

1028
00:52:38,281 --> 00:52:39,121
Speaker 4: it's just well.

1029
00:52:39,001 --> 00:52:41,041
Speaker 1: We've got we've got money there to help every other country.

1030
00:52:41,041 --> 00:52:42,601
Speaker 1: He can't fucking help our own country.

1031
00:52:43,321 --> 00:52:44,561
Speaker 4: So nobody wants.

1032
00:52:44,441 --> 00:52:46,881
Speaker 1: To do it because we reduce the statistics, and once

1033
00:52:46,961 --> 00:52:50,001
Speaker 1: the statistics are reduced, it then takes away jobs. So

1034
00:52:50,081 --> 00:52:52,641
Speaker 1: if jobs are then taken away, it changes the dynamics

1035
00:52:52,641 --> 00:52:56,401
Speaker 1: of the economic system. Now put this in perspective, and

1036
00:52:56,481 --> 00:52:59,241
Speaker 1: I'm sure you are well aware of this because of

1037
00:52:59,281 --> 00:53:01,841
Speaker 1: your studies and the way you are that if we

1038
00:53:01,881 --> 00:53:06,281
Speaker 1: look at other countries and their structure around babilitation and crime,

1039
00:53:06,521 --> 00:53:09,841
Speaker 1: the reoffending rates, like you look at Norway, Denmark, all

1040
00:53:09,881 --> 00:53:11,121
Speaker 1: these other places.

1041
00:53:10,801 --> 00:53:13,441
Speaker 4: When it's good, yeah, may wow.

1042
00:53:13,561 --> 00:53:16,361
Speaker 1: If anybody hasn't gone out there and watched these documents,

1043
00:53:16,441 --> 00:53:19,201
Speaker 1: check on YouTube. They're all there. Have a look at

1044
00:53:19,641 --> 00:53:23,841
Speaker 1: how they deal with crime and progressionally bringing people back

1045
00:53:23,841 --> 00:53:28,641
Speaker 1: in to migrate into society that don't reoffend, that have education,

1046
00:53:28,801 --> 00:53:33,201
Speaker 1: that have skill sets, living skills, dealing with trauma. They've

1047
00:53:33,281 --> 00:53:37,401
Speaker 1: just invested so much and it proves beyond doubt they're

1048
00:53:37,401 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: the leaders in the world. They've just had a big

1049
00:53:40,041 --> 00:53:44,001
Speaker 1: forum over there now, all based around how each country

1050
00:53:44,081 --> 00:53:48,361
Speaker 1: can better their criminal statistics and reduce the Chilean We're

1051
00:53:48,401 --> 00:53:50,601
Speaker 1: just building more and more supermax We're building more and

1052
00:53:50,681 --> 00:53:55,201
Speaker 1: more new South Wales just keep extending by thousands, and

1053
00:53:55,281 --> 00:53:56,961
Speaker 1: Queensland's just doing the same.

1054
00:53:57,201 --> 00:53:59,601
Speaker 4: And that's what it is. Any of your good parole officers,

1055
00:53:59,721 --> 00:54:02,881
Speaker 4: and there's some that I really respect that obviously aren't

1056
00:54:02,881 --> 00:54:05,521
Speaker 4: in the job anymore. That's set out like my to

1057
00:54:05,761 --> 00:54:09,281
Speaker 4: help people, to make them and to have the restraints

1058
00:54:09,361 --> 00:54:12,081
Speaker 4: of the government to say no, we don't have money

1059
00:54:12,081 --> 00:54:14,761
Speaker 4: for that. Now you don't have time, Like you slowly

1060
00:54:14,841 --> 00:54:17,321
Speaker 4: died inside, you're like, well, this is not what I

1061
00:54:17,361 --> 00:54:19,081
Speaker 4: thought it was going to be. Like I don't want

1062
00:54:19,121 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 4: to put this person in prison just because you want

1063
00:54:21,001 --> 00:54:23,201
Speaker 4: me to. I don't want to do that. How can

1064
00:54:23,241 --> 00:54:23,681
Speaker 4: I help them?

1065
00:54:23,721 --> 00:54:23,841
Speaker 1: Now?

1066
00:54:23,881 --> 00:54:26,281
Speaker 4: You don't have time for that? Like sinus warrant do this?

1067
00:54:26,481 --> 00:54:29,361
Speaker 4: Like it wears you down, and that's why obviously I left.

1068
00:54:29,361 --> 00:54:30,801
Speaker 4: I was like, and there's a lot of us that

1069
00:54:30,921 --> 00:54:33,921
Speaker 4: have left. I actually had a pro lee that like

1070
00:54:34,121 --> 00:54:37,161
Speaker 4: I like to think most of the people that I supervised,

1071
00:54:37,241 --> 00:54:39,441
Speaker 4: if I ran into them street would say hello to me,

1072
00:54:39,561 --> 00:54:43,441
Speaker 4: like I don't have the caterers. I was respectful for them. Obviously,

1073
00:54:43,441 --> 00:54:46,321
Speaker 4: there's a few that I don't like that weren't great

1074
00:54:46,361 --> 00:54:48,801
Speaker 4: to me, so I wasn't great to them. But ninety

1075
00:54:48,881 --> 00:54:52,721
Speaker 4: nine percent have mutual respect. And I had this one

1076
00:54:52,761 --> 00:54:54,921
Speaker 4: young boy and I did everything to keep him out.

1077
00:54:55,041 --> 00:54:57,721
Speaker 4: Worked on. Management kept saying you need to put him away,

1078
00:54:57,721 --> 00:54:59,161
Speaker 4: you need to put him away, and I said, no, no,

1079
00:54:59,401 --> 00:55:01,201
Speaker 4: we'd just leave it with me. I promise. And I've

1080
00:55:01,241 --> 00:55:04,001
Speaker 4: been in the job a long time. So anyway, I

1081
00:55:04,081 --> 00:55:07,441
Speaker 4: left suddenly when I I resigned from Corrective Servances and

1082
00:55:07,641 --> 00:55:10,561
Speaker 4: I was in Bali last year. Actually, I walked out

1083
00:55:10,561 --> 00:55:13,001
Speaker 4: of a club and here he was standing in front

1084
00:55:13,001 --> 00:55:15,001
Speaker 4: of me, Billi Bali. I looked at him, he looked

1085
00:55:15,001 --> 00:55:18,601
Speaker 4: at me and you just see, go shit. And I

1086
00:55:18,641 --> 00:55:20,121
Speaker 4: said to him, I said, you're allowed to be out

1087
00:55:20,121 --> 00:55:24,481
Speaker 4: of the country, and he goes, yeah. That long it

1088
00:55:24,521 --> 00:55:26,721
Speaker 4: was a joke. And then he said, yeah, he goes,

1089
00:55:26,761 --> 00:55:28,841
Speaker 4: I did my full time. He goes, you were gone

1090
00:55:29,041 --> 00:55:31,641
Speaker 4: one week, you left me and they put me in.

1091
00:55:32,201 --> 00:55:34,201
Speaker 4: I said, I'm so sorry, Like, I left because of

1092
00:55:34,241 --> 00:55:37,401
Speaker 4: a serious reason. And I said I'm so sorry, like

1093
00:55:37,441 --> 00:55:39,681
Speaker 4: and he's like, you were the only one that actually

1094
00:55:39,721 --> 00:55:42,161
Speaker 4: believed in me. And you could see the disappointment and

1095
00:55:42,201 --> 00:55:45,041
Speaker 4: the anger. I'm gonna upset thinking about it, the disappointment

1096
00:55:45,041 --> 00:55:47,121
Speaker 4: and the anger in him going like, yes he had

1097
00:55:47,161 --> 00:55:49,201
Speaker 4: a drug problem, Yes he had a gang problem, Yes

1098
00:55:49,201 --> 00:55:52,001
Speaker 4: he had but he was trying. He was really really trying,

1099
00:55:52,281 --> 00:55:54,721
Speaker 4: and putting him back in is not going to change that.

1100
00:55:54,761 --> 00:55:57,481
Speaker 4: He's not going to become a rehabilitated person by putting

1101
00:55:57,521 --> 00:55:59,601
Speaker 4: him back in. He's going to come back out full

1102
00:55:59,601 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 4: time anyway, with no supervision. So you could just see

1103
00:56:03,561 --> 00:56:06,521
Speaker 4: he was so broken that it was like someone that

1104
00:56:06,561 --> 00:56:08,801
Speaker 4: believed in him gave up on him. And I had

1105
00:56:08,801 --> 00:56:11,241
Speaker 4: to keep saying but yeah, it's just things like that,

1106
00:56:11,281 --> 00:56:13,161
Speaker 4: as soon as I left, or any of the good

1107
00:56:13,161 --> 00:56:15,241
Speaker 4: officers left, that we put our heart and soul in

1108
00:56:15,281 --> 00:56:17,241
Speaker 4: trying to help these people and keep them out in

1109
00:56:17,241 --> 00:56:19,841
Speaker 4: the community. They're put straight back in by our gun

1110
00:56:19,881 --> 00:56:25,441
Speaker 4: Ho management loving officer pretty much like, yeah, but anyway,

1111
00:56:25,521 --> 00:56:27,001
Speaker 4: ran over with that one.

1112
00:56:27,601 --> 00:56:30,521
Speaker 1: Well, it's really relevant, and thank you for sharing that,

1113
00:56:30,601 --> 00:56:33,361
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, you know, these

1114
00:56:33,961 --> 00:56:37,761
Speaker 1: are the facts and the realizations of what's actually taking place.

1115
00:56:38,081 --> 00:56:41,041
Speaker 1: And we talk about reoccurring and reoffending and the revolving

1116
00:56:41,121 --> 00:56:43,681
Speaker 1: door and all this sort of stuff. When you feel

1117
00:56:43,681 --> 00:56:45,961
Speaker 1: there's nothing out there and everyone gives up on you

1118
00:56:46,281 --> 00:56:48,921
Speaker 1: if you're not strong enough, and it is fucking hard,

1119
00:56:49,721 --> 00:56:52,081
Speaker 1: you know, like if you've got no support network and

1120
00:56:52,121 --> 00:56:54,641
Speaker 1: that one or two people you feel that truly you

1121
00:56:54,681 --> 00:56:56,161
Speaker 1: know you can turn to them. They're not there. And

1122
00:56:56,201 --> 00:56:58,201
Speaker 1: I'm not, by any means trying to make you feel

1123
00:56:58,201 --> 00:57:01,001
Speaker 1: at worse about it, but just speaking in general.

1124
00:57:00,841 --> 00:57:03,201
Speaker 4: No, and honestly, I think it's.

1125
00:57:02,881 --> 00:57:06,161
Speaker 1: Like all who cares? We just do what I've always

1126
00:57:06,161 --> 00:57:08,161
Speaker 1: done best, and that's what you know, It's more a

1127
00:57:08,201 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: survival rather than a desire. It's just a I will

1128
00:57:12,481 --> 00:57:14,761
Speaker 1: do this and knowing it. You will get caught at

1129
00:57:14,761 --> 00:57:16,881
Speaker 1: some stage and you will go back into the system.

1130
00:57:16,921 --> 00:57:21,721
Speaker 1: But then the system becomes somewhere where it's a known place, habitual,

1131
00:57:22,081 --> 00:57:23,241
Speaker 1: and it's the norm.

1132
00:57:23,641 --> 00:57:26,681
Speaker 4: And I think people have to understand too that good officers,

1133
00:57:26,721 --> 00:57:28,721
Speaker 4: ones that actually are doing it because they want to

1134
00:57:28,721 --> 00:57:32,321
Speaker 4: make a difference. If we supervise someone, especially like the

1135
00:57:32,361 --> 00:57:34,841
Speaker 4: older gentleman's I had, or even here, if we supervise

1136
00:57:34,961 --> 00:57:37,441
Speaker 4: someone even in and our customer, they come back and

1137
00:57:37,561 --> 00:57:41,001
Speaker 4: you are their parole officer, we build a relationship, We

1138
00:57:41,081 --> 00:57:44,561
Speaker 4: build up positive relationship. We are there wrong. Sometimes they

1139
00:57:44,601 --> 00:57:47,361
Speaker 4: don't have any family. They've come from they've come from

1140
00:57:47,881 --> 00:57:51,081
Speaker 4: youth care, they've come from juvenile justice, they've had no

1141
00:57:51,121 --> 00:57:54,161
Speaker 4: one believe in them. So to have one person, even

1142
00:57:54,201 --> 00:57:56,481
Speaker 4: though it is your parole officer, believe in them and

1143
00:57:57,281 --> 00:58:01,361
Speaker 4: to have that taken away and management we're pretty I'm

1144
00:58:01,361 --> 00:58:03,081
Speaker 4: not going to use the word statistic, but they were

1145
00:58:03,121 --> 00:58:06,561
Speaker 4: pretty ruthless with that sort of thing. That if you

1146
00:58:06,561 --> 00:58:08,841
Speaker 4: would say, can I please have this person back when

1147
00:58:08,881 --> 00:58:11,201
Speaker 4: they come back out of pusty because we built such

1148
00:58:11,201 --> 00:58:13,761
Speaker 4: a good rapport, they're like, not happening, We're going to

1149
00:58:13,761 --> 00:58:15,561
Speaker 4: give them to so and so or whatever. They do

1150
00:58:15,601 --> 00:58:19,121
Speaker 4: it on purpose, just to put that person only. And

1151
00:58:19,201 --> 00:58:21,601
Speaker 4: even recently there's a young boy he came to me

1152
00:58:22,801 --> 00:58:24,321
Speaker 4: first time on pro We used to take him at

1153
00:58:24,321 --> 00:58:27,921
Speaker 4: seventeen in Queensland in the adult system. And he came

1154
00:58:28,001 --> 00:58:31,521
Speaker 4: to me at seventeen with a twenty two page criminal history,

1155
00:58:31,921 --> 00:58:34,721
Speaker 4: which seventeen, that's a good run. He's done well so far.

1156
00:58:35,161 --> 00:58:37,161
Speaker 4: So he came to me and you're told from the

1157
00:58:37,201 --> 00:58:39,481
Speaker 4: beginning there's no hope. He's done for. And I put

1158
00:58:39,521 --> 00:58:41,921
Speaker 4: my heart and soul into this kid, and I did

1159
00:58:41,961 --> 00:58:44,161
Speaker 4: for years. He went back in, came back out, and

1160
00:58:44,161 --> 00:58:47,361
Speaker 4: I still he was a nice kid. He was good.

1161
00:58:47,401 --> 00:58:51,441
Speaker 4: He just come from a travel anyway. Recently a ex

1162
00:58:51,521 --> 00:58:53,521
Speaker 4: colleague's now working in programs in the prison.

1163
00:58:53,641 --> 00:58:53,801
Speaker 1: Look.

1164
00:58:53,921 --> 00:58:55,441
Speaker 4: To be honest, I have not much to do with

1165
00:58:55,481 --> 00:58:58,601
Speaker 4: anyone I worked with anymore. I got rid of that life.

1166
00:58:58,681 --> 00:59:01,081
Speaker 4: But she said to me, because I ran into so

1167
00:59:01,201 --> 00:59:03,801
Speaker 4: and so the other day and they said, where is she?

1168
00:59:03,921 --> 00:59:05,881
Speaker 4: I miss her? And I'm like, it makes me feel

1169
00:59:05,961 --> 00:59:08,521
Speaker 4: good that I didn't give up on them, even though

1170
00:59:08,561 --> 00:59:11,201
Speaker 4: I'm not still there. The fact that ten years later,

1171
00:59:11,281 --> 00:59:14,441
Speaker 4: five years later, these people still think, well, she actually cared.

1172
00:59:14,481 --> 00:59:16,921
Speaker 4: And that's what I went into the job for. You

1173
00:59:17,041 --> 00:59:21,001
Speaker 4: have it taken away from you or pushed down because

1174
00:59:21,041 --> 00:59:23,641
Speaker 4: of the government, because of management, It breaks you down.

1175
00:59:23,801 --> 00:59:26,721
Speaker 1: It's just well, I just want to say to you,

1176
00:59:26,921 --> 00:59:28,641
Speaker 1: and I know that you know, it's sort of a

1177
00:59:28,641 --> 00:59:30,721
Speaker 1: little bit too late, but as someone who's had to

1178
00:59:31,081 --> 00:59:34,641
Speaker 1: have quite a few prole offices over the years, and

1179
00:59:34,681 --> 00:59:38,001
Speaker 1: I've done well since twenty ten, believing my life's well

1180
00:59:38,041 --> 00:59:40,801
Speaker 1: and truly changed other than what I'm confronting from many

1181
00:59:40,801 --> 00:59:44,401
Speaker 1: many moons ago. But I have no connection or desire,

1182
00:59:44,601 --> 00:59:46,361
Speaker 1: like it's just not even a way of life. So

1183
00:59:46,961 --> 00:59:49,281
Speaker 1: you know, for me, I would like to say thank

1184
00:59:49,361 --> 00:59:53,001
Speaker 1: you for being that way, because you are one of

1185
00:59:53,041 --> 00:59:56,961
Speaker 1: those few that actually genuinely have a positive impact on

1186
00:59:57,081 --> 01:00:02,441
Speaker 1: people like myself who had no no one to believe

1187
01:00:02,481 --> 01:00:04,121
Speaker 1: in them, you know, especially when I was younger, and

1188
01:00:04,241 --> 01:00:08,441
Speaker 1: it was very true, aumatized, very angry, very bitter, you know,

1189
01:00:08,521 --> 01:00:11,481
Speaker 1: and the system was just a massive middle finger, you know,

1190
01:00:11,601 --> 01:00:13,601
Speaker 1: like there was nothing you could do or say that

1191
01:00:13,681 --> 01:00:16,481
Speaker 1: I was going to give you respect for. But then

1192
01:00:17,041 --> 01:00:19,481
Speaker 1: you flip the coin and you've got someone like yourself

1193
01:00:19,601 --> 01:00:22,801
Speaker 1: that comes into a person like me back then's life

1194
01:00:22,841 --> 01:00:25,481
Speaker 1: and shows a bit of compassion. It's like working with

1195
01:00:25,561 --> 01:00:28,361
Speaker 1: troubled youth, you know, I get very passionate about it.

1196
01:00:28,921 --> 01:00:31,081
Speaker 1: And you know, the one thing I was always told

1197
01:00:31,241 --> 01:00:35,201
Speaker 1: was never get involved personally, don't emotionally allow yourself to

1198
01:00:35,201 --> 01:00:38,761
Speaker 1: be involved with any clients or any of the young

1199
01:00:38,801 --> 01:00:40,841
Speaker 1: people you're working with. You know, if you're going to

1200
01:00:40,881 --> 01:00:43,241
Speaker 1: go there and you're going to do a workshop or

1201
01:00:43,241 --> 01:00:46,641
Speaker 1: you're going to connect with these young people, remain professional

1202
01:00:46,761 --> 01:00:49,561
Speaker 1: ethical obviously, but at the same time to just know

1203
01:00:49,641 --> 01:00:51,201
Speaker 1: that when you leave there, like you said, you know,

1204
01:00:51,561 --> 01:00:53,521
Speaker 1: you go home to your family and my dad, you know,

1205
01:00:53,641 --> 01:00:56,121
Speaker 1: like and I've got from twenty six down to eleven

1206
01:00:56,161 --> 01:00:59,281
Speaker 1: four children, you know, And I look at my children

1207
01:00:59,321 --> 01:01:01,801
Speaker 1: every day and sometimes think how blessed they are and

1208
01:01:01,841 --> 01:01:05,321
Speaker 1: how blessed I am after working away, was some of

1209
01:01:05,321 --> 01:01:08,281
Speaker 1: these young people whom I know are less fortunate. How

1210
01:01:08,321 --> 01:01:12,601
Speaker 1: does one not carry that emotional connection and give a

1211
01:01:12,681 --> 01:01:15,241
Speaker 1: shit about that person or those people that you've just

1212
01:01:15,321 --> 01:01:18,281
Speaker 1: had that interaction. If you've seen it, you've felt it,

1213
01:01:18,961 --> 01:01:21,401
Speaker 1: you can't you're inhumane. Like and people do it. I

1214
01:01:21,441 --> 01:01:24,161
Speaker 1: get it. They're training program to do it, or they,

1215
01:01:24,201 --> 01:01:26,641
Speaker 1: like you said, you know, they suppress it so much

1216
01:01:26,721 --> 01:01:27,881
Speaker 1: that at the end of the week they all just

1217
01:01:27,921 --> 01:01:29,561
Speaker 1: meet up at the pub and get on it. I

1218
01:01:29,761 --> 01:01:31,601
Speaker 1: lay apple, go home and drink a bottle of wine

1219
01:01:31,601 --> 01:01:32,041
Speaker 1: every night.

1220
01:01:32,121 --> 01:01:34,321
Speaker 4: Whatever they do to stand by that those and this

1221
01:01:34,441 --> 01:01:37,161
Speaker 4: is going to be probably not very PC and whatever.

1222
01:01:37,161 --> 01:01:40,121
Speaker 4: But those that are in management roles in corrective services

1223
01:01:40,161 --> 01:01:43,681
Speaker 4: that are high up, they're actual psychopaths. They are the

1224
01:01:43,681 --> 01:01:45,641
Speaker 4: ones that and I'm telling you now, they are the

1225
01:01:45,681 --> 01:01:48,961
Speaker 4: ones that I used to say I loved being a

1226
01:01:48,961 --> 01:01:53,321
Speaker 4: pro officer because of my offenders. I hated my colleagues

1227
01:01:53,481 --> 01:01:57,081
Speaker 4: hated them, And that's no one would understand that. But

1228
01:01:57,681 --> 01:02:01,721
Speaker 4: my offenders, they had a good heart. Ninety nine percent

1229
01:02:01,721 --> 01:02:03,361
Speaker 4: of them. Their heart's not bad.

1230
01:02:04,361 --> 01:02:06,961
Speaker 1: That's what I've always said. Jail's not full of bad people.

1231
01:02:07,841 --> 01:02:10,521
Speaker 1: Jail's full of people that have made bad decisions. Don't

1232
01:02:10,521 --> 01:02:13,121
Speaker 1: get me wrong, don't mix up my words here. Please,

1233
01:02:13,161 --> 01:02:15,961
Speaker 1: Guys that you know are tuning into this because there

1234
01:02:16,041 --> 01:02:18,401
Speaker 1: is a place for jail, and jail needs to be

1235
01:02:18,521 --> 01:02:23,321
Speaker 1: there for certain people will stop. But the amount of

1236
01:02:23,321 --> 01:02:26,241
Speaker 1: people that you meet that are actually should be there

1237
01:02:26,241 --> 01:02:31,281
Speaker 1: for the rest of life, as opposed to those that, yeah,

1238
01:02:31,401 --> 01:02:33,321
Speaker 1: it just had a bad run or just you know,

1239
01:02:34,041 --> 01:02:36,761
Speaker 1: a bad choice, or you know, like therese fathers in

1240
01:02:36,761 --> 01:02:39,401
Speaker 1: there that have defended their daughters that have been raped

1241
01:02:39,441 --> 01:02:42,321
Speaker 1: and touched up or jumped in fights that women are

1242
01:02:42,361 --> 01:02:46,161
Speaker 1: being attacked on, like just moral righteous moral things that

1243
01:02:46,201 --> 01:02:49,801
Speaker 1: though aren't legally correct because it's broken the law and

1244
01:02:49,921 --> 01:02:52,481
Speaker 1: damage has been done and they've used excessive force or whatever,

1245
01:02:52,601 --> 01:02:55,881
Speaker 1: or all people that have been in positions where they're

1246
01:02:55,881 --> 01:02:58,521
Speaker 1: financially destitute and all they want to do is try

1247
01:02:58,561 --> 01:03:02,001
Speaker 1: and find a solution, you know, to not lose their home.

1248
01:03:02,121 --> 01:03:04,521
Speaker 4: Or we've seen that a lot of thattment in defense.

1249
01:03:04,561 --> 01:03:07,521
Speaker 4: We've seen lot at the moment and might hard like

1250
01:03:07,561 --> 01:03:10,041
Speaker 4: you see these they've done for big trafficking, or they're

1251
01:03:10,081 --> 01:03:14,081
Speaker 4: done for something big because they're struggling. They've got a wife,

1252
01:03:14,121 --> 01:03:16,521
Speaker 4: they've got kids, they're at work every day. They get

1253
01:03:16,561 --> 01:03:19,361
Speaker 4: offered this opportunity to make their life better and they

1254
01:03:19,401 --> 01:03:22,201
Speaker 4: take it, and then they're painted out to be the

1255
01:03:22,201 --> 01:03:25,281
Speaker 4: worst person in the world. Well, their heart's not bad.

1256
01:03:25,481 --> 01:03:28,401
Speaker 4: They're definitely not bad. The ones that are bad are

1257
01:03:28,401 --> 01:03:32,361
Speaker 4: those calculated management that are telling you to do this

1258
01:03:32,481 --> 01:03:35,881
Speaker 4: thing to another human being because it fits their agenda.

1259
01:03:36,441 --> 01:03:39,921
Speaker 4: That's a psychopath. Not these people that snap.

1260
01:03:40,121 --> 01:03:42,201
Speaker 1: Slightly old saying you've probably heard it before. You know,

1261
01:03:42,281 --> 01:03:44,121
Speaker 1: it's like the screw that or the copper that got

1262
01:03:44,121 --> 01:03:46,561
Speaker 1: touched up at school and got slapped around or bullied

1263
01:03:46,561 --> 01:03:48,721
Speaker 1: and then decided to jump over the other side.

1264
01:03:48,961 --> 01:03:52,041
Speaker 4: I always said that payback. They're ones that were bullied

1265
01:03:52,081 --> 01:03:53,921
Speaker 4: in skill and they want something that gives them power

1266
01:03:53,921 --> 01:03:56,601
Speaker 4: over each someone else. That's exactly what it is. So

1267
01:03:56,921 --> 01:03:59,401
Speaker 4: and you find that with a lot of male parole officers.

1268
01:03:59,761 --> 01:04:02,201
Speaker 4: Most of the prole officers, you'll find a females because

1269
01:04:02,201 --> 01:04:06,121
Speaker 4: of that university education, because of obviously going into it

1270
01:04:06,241 --> 01:04:08,361
Speaker 4: not knowing what it is and wanting to help someone.

1271
01:04:08,401 --> 01:04:10,241
Speaker 4: If somebody wants to go into the kind of that

1272
01:04:10,481 --> 01:04:12,881
Speaker 4: justice field, and as a male, they normally go to police,

1273
01:04:13,041 --> 01:04:15,481
Speaker 4: or they go to screw, or they go to But

1274
01:04:15,601 --> 01:04:19,321
Speaker 4: those males that are parole officers, they were ones at

1275
01:04:19,321 --> 01:04:21,241
Speaker 4: school that want to try and be that big and

1276
01:04:21,281 --> 01:04:22,521
Speaker 4: bad and it.

1277
01:04:22,681 --> 01:04:25,561
Speaker 1: Just, yeah, it doesn't work. I want to touch base

1278
01:04:25,601 --> 01:04:28,641
Speaker 1: with you before we sort of end on today's thing.

1279
01:04:28,641 --> 01:04:31,201
Speaker 1: You're doing some amazing things, and I want to commend

1280
01:04:31,201 --> 01:04:33,681
Speaker 1: you on that. You're working in a space which is

1281
01:04:33,721 --> 01:04:37,121
Speaker 1: a defense space in the criminal law. How are you

1282
01:04:37,121 --> 01:04:41,041
Speaker 1: finding that and can you talk about much about it,

1283
01:04:41,121 --> 01:04:42,681
Speaker 1: like without sort of putting you in a.

1284
01:04:42,641 --> 01:04:45,841
Speaker 4: Position right know, So, I obviously I've always had that

1285
01:04:46,081 --> 01:04:48,281
Speaker 4: passion and love for the law, passion and That's.

1286
01:04:48,201 --> 01:04:49,401
Speaker 1: What I want to do, is I want to give

1287
01:04:49,441 --> 01:04:53,241
Speaker 1: people inspiration, because that's what the Clink is based around. Now,

1288
01:04:53,281 --> 01:04:55,641
Speaker 1: you know, we did our years of redemption and all

1289
01:04:55,721 --> 01:04:58,361
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, but each of our guests, now

1290
01:04:58,561 --> 01:05:03,281
Speaker 1: I asked two main points in their successes and yourself,

1291
01:05:03,481 --> 01:05:06,961
Speaker 1: you're no different. You could gone wayward, you know, young mum,

1292
01:05:07,041 --> 01:05:09,441
Speaker 1: you could have made some bad decisions like look.

1293
01:05:09,321 --> 01:05:11,921
Speaker 4: I wasn't it too perfect. I wasn't innocent, that's for sure.

1294
01:05:12,081 --> 01:05:14,481
Speaker 1: Exactly, no, exactly. But at the end of the day,

1295
01:05:14,841 --> 01:05:18,561
Speaker 1: whatever you've done and the tools that you've used and

1296
01:05:18,761 --> 01:05:20,841
Speaker 1: the way that you've lived your life and chosen to

1297
01:05:20,881 --> 01:05:23,201
Speaker 1: do things has gotten you to wear other and you're

1298
01:05:23,241 --> 01:05:26,561
Speaker 1: still out there and you're successfully now stayed another phase

1299
01:05:26,561 --> 01:05:27,081
Speaker 1: of your life.

1300
01:05:27,161 --> 01:05:29,881
Speaker 4: Like I did have a big break from corrective services

1301
01:05:29,921 --> 01:05:32,481
Speaker 4: and from the justice and from law. It did I'm

1302
01:05:32,481 --> 01:05:35,601
Speaker 4: going to say they destroyed me. They absolutely destroyed me,

1303
01:05:35,841 --> 01:05:38,161
Speaker 4: and they destroyed that passion I had inside of me

1304
01:05:38,241 --> 01:05:41,001
Speaker 4: to help people. I did lose faith in the law.

1305
01:05:41,161 --> 01:05:44,001
Speaker 4: I did lose faith in the justice system. So I

1306
01:05:44,081 --> 01:05:46,241
Speaker 4: did have a big break from it and I traveled

1307
01:05:46,241 --> 01:05:49,721
Speaker 4: a bit, did whatever. Actually, and I'm a big advocate

1308
01:05:49,801 --> 01:05:53,321
Speaker 4: for this that I did a lot of counseling. I

1309
01:05:53,361 --> 01:05:56,001
Speaker 4: definitely was not letting them win, but I was also

1310
01:05:56,161 --> 01:05:59,201
Speaker 4: owning where I'm not a perfect person, what I could

1311
01:05:59,201 --> 01:06:01,841
Speaker 4: have done better, how I could have reacted better. But

1312
01:06:01,881 --> 01:06:04,481
Speaker 4: I still missed it. I missed the law side of things.

1313
01:06:04,521 --> 01:06:08,601
Speaker 4: But I literally now just want to help people in

1314
01:06:08,641 --> 01:06:11,841
Speaker 4: a justice system that is broken, try and get them

1315
01:06:12,281 --> 01:06:16,521
Speaker 4: the best help they can. And I started looking and

1316
01:06:16,641 --> 01:06:19,881
Speaker 4: I found an amazing law firm on the Gold Coast

1317
01:06:19,921 --> 01:06:23,401
Speaker 4: that they don't do legal aid, but instead they do

1318
01:06:23,521 --> 01:06:26,121
Speaker 4: sort of your lower fixed rate that we just pay

1319
01:06:26,161 --> 01:06:28,081
Speaker 4: off when they can afford it, so it's none of

1320
01:06:28,081 --> 01:06:30,361
Speaker 4: that financial pressure. It's not like he's three hundred dollars

1321
01:06:30,361 --> 01:06:32,241
Speaker 4: for an email, here's this phone call, here's this sort

1322
01:06:32,281 --> 01:06:36,241
Speaker 4: of thing. They're very passionate on helping people that because

1323
01:06:36,321 --> 01:06:38,721
Speaker 4: to get legal a these days is almost impossible. You

1324
01:06:38,761 --> 01:06:41,401
Speaker 4: can't even own a car or something. It's stupid. And

1325
01:06:41,481 --> 01:06:43,121
Speaker 4: if you're in a house, but you're on your ass

1326
01:06:43,121 --> 01:06:45,281
Speaker 4: too bad, So your help for your legal bills that's

1327
01:06:45,321 --> 01:06:45,841
Speaker 4: not fair.

1328
01:06:46,121 --> 01:06:48,601
Speaker 1: Don't ever get me started on that whole legal aid thing,

1329
01:06:48,681 --> 01:06:54,761
Speaker 1: because I've obviously lost and had to sell everything to

1330
01:06:54,881 --> 01:06:58,641
Speaker 1: date because of the system to fight now if I

1331
01:06:58,681 --> 01:07:01,721
Speaker 1: hadn't of and I had to definitely look down that road,

1332
01:07:01,841 --> 01:07:04,361
Speaker 1: the amount of paperwork, the amount of things that you

1333
01:07:04,481 --> 01:07:06,881
Speaker 1: have to do, I don't know how. I don't know

1334
01:07:06,921 --> 01:07:09,601
Speaker 1: how people get the help they truly need.

1335
01:07:09,801 --> 01:07:12,241
Speaker 4: People need to remember too that even to apply for

1336
01:07:12,321 --> 01:07:15,321
Speaker 4: centilink or that when prisoners are coming out to do

1337
01:07:15,361 --> 01:07:19,161
Speaker 4: all this, a fully educated person struggles with that paperwork.

1338
01:07:19,361 --> 01:07:21,881
Speaker 4: How do you expect someone that you're not educating, that

1339
01:07:21,921 --> 01:07:24,201
Speaker 4: you're not to go and apply for legal aid or

1340
01:07:24,241 --> 01:07:26,721
Speaker 4: go and apply for cent to link. They can't do it,

1341
01:07:26,841 --> 01:07:29,241
Speaker 4: and I feel like they make it hard for that reason.

1342
01:07:29,761 --> 01:07:32,281
Speaker 4: So the fam I work for now, they're very big

1343
01:07:32,321 --> 01:07:35,201
Speaker 4: on helping kind of a little guy but still need

1344
01:07:35,241 --> 01:07:37,441
Speaker 4: to pay something, and we do. They are very big

1345
01:07:37,481 --> 01:07:41,281
Speaker 4: on giving discounts if someone's a single mom or struggling

1346
01:07:41,361 --> 01:07:43,361
Speaker 4: or whatever, and then just take a small deposit, say

1347
01:07:43,361 --> 01:07:46,081
Speaker 4: four hundred bucks, deposit, five hundred dollars deposit and just

1348
01:07:46,481 --> 01:07:48,641
Speaker 4: pay it off until you can kind of thing like.

1349
01:07:48,961 --> 01:07:51,161
Speaker 4: They're very big. So I was like, this aligns with

1350
01:07:51,201 --> 01:07:53,641
Speaker 4: what I want. This is what I kind of want

1351
01:07:53,681 --> 01:07:56,761
Speaker 4: to do. So I started working with them. I struggled

1352
01:07:57,001 --> 01:07:59,281
Speaker 4: the first. Let's for going from one side to the other,

1353
01:07:59,801 --> 01:08:02,721
Speaker 4: even like the money side of things, like obviously, I

1354
01:08:02,721 --> 01:08:04,561
Speaker 4: don't want to charge, Like why can't we just help

1355
01:08:04,601 --> 01:08:07,001
Speaker 4: this person free? Why can't we just like do this.

1356
01:08:07,161 --> 01:08:09,921
Speaker 4: Obviously we've got to pay the barristers, we've got to

1357
01:08:09,961 --> 01:08:12,201
Speaker 4: pay this listitors, we've got to pay. So I get

1358
01:08:12,441 --> 01:08:15,561
Speaker 4: obviously we've got a charge, but I don't want to.

1359
01:08:15,721 --> 01:08:18,401
Speaker 4: I'm like, I just want this person like it was

1360
01:08:18,441 --> 01:08:21,761
Speaker 4: an accident, like like especially ones at the moment, like

1361
01:08:21,761 --> 01:08:24,361
Speaker 4: your car ones where they're not over the limit, they're

1362
01:08:24,361 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 4: not dangerous driving. Something's happened and they've crashed and someone's

1363
01:08:27,961 --> 01:08:30,401
Speaker 4: hurt themselves wasn't their fault, but they're now up on

1364
01:08:30,521 --> 01:08:34,721
Speaker 4: serious charges, like they're broken. These people are broken, and

1365
01:08:34,761 --> 01:08:36,961
Speaker 4: we want to like not we, but other law firms

1366
01:08:37,001 --> 01:08:39,321
Speaker 4: that want to charge them one hundred thousand dollars just

1367
01:08:39,361 --> 01:08:42,561
Speaker 4: to defend themselves. I don't agree with it. So yeah,

1368
01:08:42,601 --> 01:08:44,521
Speaker 4: I love what I'm doing now. It's taken me a

1369
01:08:44,521 --> 01:08:47,561
Speaker 4: while to get my foot in and see the other side.

1370
01:08:47,641 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 4: I do love too, learning about what we were talking

1371
01:08:50,801 --> 01:08:53,161
Speaker 4: about that it's not about getting them off. It's definitely

1372
01:08:53,201 --> 01:08:55,441
Speaker 4: people think, oh, how can you defend this person. It's

1373
01:08:55,481 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 4: not about that. It's very honest. It's very Look, we're

1374
01:08:58,721 --> 01:09:00,161
Speaker 4: not going to waste your money. We're not going to

1375
01:09:00,241 --> 01:09:02,361
Speaker 4: take you to a trial and charge you another fifty

1376
01:09:02,401 --> 01:09:05,961
Speaker 4: thousand dollars to be found guilty. Can take or leave

1377
01:09:06,001 --> 01:09:08,521
Speaker 4: the advice. They can go no, I'm going to someone

1378
01:09:08,521 --> 01:09:10,641
Speaker 4: else and I'm going to go to trial. But this

1379
01:09:10,881 --> 01:09:13,641
Speaker 4: firm is not in the business of making money. And

1380
01:09:13,881 --> 01:09:16,081
Speaker 4: that's what I stand for. And I'm very big on

1381
01:09:17,161 --> 01:09:19,641
Speaker 4: talking to people and trying. Even people that are currently

1382
01:09:19,681 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 4: on parole that are getting sentences, well they're on parole

1383
01:09:22,721 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 4: because they're prole wasn't suspended, and nobody's explaining to them

1384
01:09:26,721 --> 01:09:29,561
Speaker 4: the ins and outs of what that means for their parole.

1385
01:09:29,601 --> 01:09:32,361
Speaker 4: They think people like to talk. Parole LEAs like to talk.

1386
01:09:32,441 --> 01:09:35,361
Speaker 4: Everyone likes, Oh you do this, don't listen to anybody.

1387
01:09:35,401 --> 01:09:38,601
Speaker 4: So educating people on okay, this is the best outcome

1388
01:09:38,601 --> 01:09:40,361
Speaker 4: because blah blah blah, but guess what you do this

1389
01:09:40,521 --> 01:09:42,481
Speaker 4: you're going back to like nobody explains it to it.

1390
01:09:42,521 --> 01:09:45,241
Speaker 4: So I like using what I've done to help people,

1391
01:09:45,641 --> 01:09:47,601
Speaker 4: Like I feel like there's just me. I'm not one

1392
01:09:47,641 --> 01:09:51,241
Speaker 4: that's into your big social media or into advocating for people,

1393
01:09:51,921 --> 01:09:55,041
Speaker 4: just slowly trying to do my bit to help people

1394
01:09:55,081 --> 01:09:56,001
Speaker 4: as much as I can.

1395
01:09:56,241 --> 01:09:59,921
Speaker 1: So I love your passion and I really do, and

1396
01:09:59,921 --> 01:10:02,161
Speaker 1: I commend you on it. And you're just growing still,

1397
01:10:02,481 --> 01:10:05,761
Speaker 1: you know, and that's that's a really awesome thing. I

1398
01:10:05,801 --> 01:10:07,561
Speaker 1: want to ask you, As I said, you're in a

1399
01:10:07,561 --> 01:10:10,361
Speaker 1: position where you've taken on a couple of roles in

1400
01:10:10,441 --> 01:10:14,281
Speaker 1: life with pure passion and desire to want to help others.

1401
01:10:14,601 --> 01:10:17,921
Speaker 1: So I can't help but continue to say well done.

1402
01:10:18,641 --> 01:10:21,801
Speaker 1: People have so much more motive and it's generally not

1403
01:10:22,761 --> 01:10:25,641
Speaker 1: in the right way in these spaces that they work.

1404
01:10:25,801 --> 01:10:31,841
Speaker 1: So what would you give as advice to someone who

1405
01:10:32,361 --> 01:10:35,081
Speaker 1: has a vision or a dream? For example, I know

1406
01:10:35,161 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: a young man that's actually turned his life around who's

1407
01:10:38,081 --> 01:10:40,641
Speaker 1: doing a law degree. At the moment, he was a bikey.

1408
01:10:41,161 --> 01:10:43,521
Speaker 1: I was in jar with his dad. They're doing great

1409
01:10:43,561 --> 01:10:47,721
Speaker 1: things in the essay space. It's awesome to see. And

1410
01:10:47,921 --> 01:10:50,001
Speaker 1: he's got these flat from people. You know, you're going

1411
01:10:50,041 --> 01:10:52,481
Speaker 1: to get your haters and this and that. He's just

1412
01:10:52,601 --> 01:10:55,201
Speaker 1: battled on. So I'm just going to say, you know,

1413
01:10:55,841 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 1: well done. And here I'm not going to mention his name,

1414
01:10:57,721 --> 01:11:01,161
Speaker 1: but credit to him, and you know, like, what would

1415
01:11:01,201 --> 01:11:04,081
Speaker 1: you give somebody like that? Because it's so easy to

1416
01:11:04,081 --> 01:11:06,641
Speaker 1: go fuck It's too hard. People are going to write

1417
01:11:06,641 --> 01:11:09,441
Speaker 1: me off for my old Coe's mates and they I think,

1418
01:11:09,481 --> 01:11:11,641
Speaker 1: I'm a dog. You know this and that. What do

1419
01:11:11,681 --> 01:11:13,921
Speaker 1: you say to someone? How does somebody then find that

1420
01:11:14,001 --> 01:11:16,801
Speaker 1: confidence and that desire and that passion to want to

1421
01:11:17,121 --> 01:11:19,681
Speaker 1: take those steps to better their life following in the

1422
01:11:19,761 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: path of maybe defending others.

1423
01:11:22,441 --> 01:11:24,841
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was about to say, fuck them is what

1424
01:11:24,881 --> 01:11:25,481
Speaker 4: I always say.

1425
01:11:26,081 --> 01:11:26,961
Speaker 1: That's pretty clear.

1426
01:11:28,041 --> 01:11:30,521
Speaker 4: I think I be listening to that book lately. Let them,

1427
01:11:30,641 --> 01:11:34,001
Speaker 4: let me hear it, let them like, let them criticize you,

1428
01:11:34,081 --> 01:11:37,041
Speaker 4: let them do whatever. I'm criticized daily on it.

1429
01:11:37,241 --> 01:11:38,401
Speaker 1: I love it.

1430
01:11:38,441 --> 01:11:41,001
Speaker 4: I love the I mess up one thing at work

1431
01:11:41,041 --> 01:11:43,441
Speaker 4: and I'm all the good things I do go out

1432
01:11:43,521 --> 01:11:47,001
Speaker 4: the window. I think. The biggest advice I have learned

1433
01:11:47,041 --> 01:11:50,481
Speaker 4: too is we always remember the negatives. Someone could tell

1434
01:11:50,481 --> 01:11:52,881
Speaker 4: you a million times you're doing an amazing job. One

1435
01:11:52,921 --> 01:11:55,081
Speaker 4: person tells you your shit, and you remember that person

1436
01:11:55,121 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 4: that said your shit.

1437
01:11:56,761 --> 01:11:57,561
Speaker 1: Marriage.

1438
01:11:58,961 --> 01:12:03,161
Speaker 4: Just literally focus on what you want, focus on what

1439
01:12:03,361 --> 01:12:06,881
Speaker 4: your heart is, what your morals are, what you want

1440
01:12:06,881 --> 01:12:09,841
Speaker 4: to get out alive and fuck everyone else pretty much,

1441
01:12:10,241 --> 01:12:12,801
Speaker 4: so you're gonna get haters no matter what you do.

1442
01:12:12,841 --> 01:12:15,281
Speaker 4: You could be the best person in the world. As

1443
01:12:15,281 --> 01:12:17,641
Speaker 4: long as you're being true to yourself. You can at

1444
01:12:17,721 --> 01:12:19,921
Speaker 4: least stand with your headheld tool and said, I have

1445
01:12:20,041 --> 01:12:23,481
Speaker 4: done everything I can for what I believe in. What

1446
01:12:23,521 --> 01:12:26,081
Speaker 4: the outcome is, no one knows. But as long as

1447
01:12:26,081 --> 01:12:28,281
Speaker 4: you do what you want to do, and that's what

1448
01:12:28,481 --> 01:12:32,481
Speaker 4: I have had. Nobody has not had adversity. I don't

1449
01:12:32,481 --> 01:12:35,721
Speaker 4: care what people say. Every person has had adversity, might

1450
01:12:35,801 --> 01:12:38,521
Speaker 4: be minor compared to someone else's adversiti bit, we've all

1451
01:12:38,561 --> 01:12:42,561
Speaker 4: had adversity. Get on with it, like do your work.

1452
01:12:42,601 --> 01:12:44,161
Speaker 4: If you need to go to counseling for it, go

1453
01:12:44,201 --> 01:12:46,961
Speaker 4: to counseling. But don't sit there and say, oh, I

1454
01:12:47,001 --> 01:12:50,361
Speaker 4: can't do this, it's too hard or whatever. Just get

1455
01:12:50,401 --> 01:12:52,680
Speaker 4: it done and just focus on what's the best thing

1456
01:12:52,721 --> 01:12:54,361
Speaker 4: for you. It's pretty much mine.

1457
01:12:55,121 --> 01:12:57,561
Speaker 1: I love that, and just the top that of how

1458
01:12:57,601 --> 01:13:02,241
Speaker 1: does somebody initiate and start to I guess take that

1459
01:13:02,281 --> 01:13:05,921
Speaker 1: first step into well, just utilize your experience because this

1460
01:13:05,961 --> 01:13:08,081
Speaker 1: is your journey that we're talking about today. So to

1461
01:13:08,121 --> 01:13:11,081
Speaker 1: get into the space that you're in. That person's got

1462
01:13:11,121 --> 01:13:13,481
Speaker 1: a bit of a background but believes that they want

1463
01:13:13,521 --> 01:13:15,281
Speaker 1: to give back. Like this young man that I was

1464
01:13:15,321 --> 01:13:18,561
Speaker 1: talking about, How does one then take those steps because

1465
01:13:18,561 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 1: obviously it's not easy. It's not like you know, mister

1466
01:13:21,961 --> 01:13:23,881
Speaker 1: or mister just come out of year twelve with their

1467
01:13:24,521 --> 01:13:26,761
Speaker 1: top marks and you know, off to Union they go.

1468
01:13:27,041 --> 01:13:30,241
Speaker 1: You're someone who should never be at the bar. How

1469
01:13:30,241 --> 01:13:33,881
Speaker 1: do I start to take those steps to just follow that.

1470
01:13:33,761 --> 01:13:35,881
Speaker 4: One step at a time, one day at a time,

1471
01:13:36,361 --> 01:13:38,841
Speaker 4: Like as in, if you want to go to UNI

1472
01:13:38,961 --> 01:13:41,841
Speaker 4: and you didn't do well at school, there's so many

1473
01:13:41,881 --> 01:13:44,841
Speaker 4: opportunities out there, we just don't No one talks about them.

1474
01:13:44,881 --> 01:13:47,761
Speaker 4: No one shows kids or shows these struggling people how

1475
01:13:47,801 --> 01:13:50,161
Speaker 4: we can do it. So even if you are Joe

1476
01:13:50,201 --> 01:13:52,161
Speaker 4: Blow on the street and you run across a kid

1477
01:13:52,201 --> 01:13:54,081
Speaker 4: at the park and he's chatting to you, but he's

1478
01:13:54,081 --> 01:13:56,361
Speaker 4: hoped and dreams but he's never done school, if we

1479
01:13:56,481 --> 01:13:59,161
Speaker 4: just educate us and go hang on, there's this bridging program.

1480
01:13:59,201 --> 01:14:01,881
Speaker 4: You could do six months doing this and like there's

1481
01:14:01,961 --> 01:14:04,001
Speaker 4: different ways to do. You don't have to finish year

1482
01:14:04,041 --> 01:14:05,721
Speaker 4: twelve to go to UNI. The days you don't have

1483
01:14:05,721 --> 01:14:08,641
Speaker 4: to do. There's so many different avenues. And then just

1484
01:14:08,721 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 4: reach out to even volunteer places if you want, and say, oh,

1485
01:14:12,681 --> 01:14:14,881
Speaker 4: can I just come and work for a day in

1486
01:14:14,921 --> 01:14:17,201
Speaker 4: your law firm once a week and I'll just do

1487
01:14:17,281 --> 01:14:19,201
Speaker 4: some filing or something. We all have to start at

1488
01:14:19,241 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 4: the bottom, like we're all being shit kickers in our days.

1489
01:14:21,921 --> 01:14:24,161
Speaker 4: Like I've got a twenty two year old boy that

1490
01:14:24,321 --> 01:14:26,281
Speaker 4: wants to be manager, the first ever job. I don't

1491
01:14:26,321 --> 01:14:30,881
Speaker 4: know where this entitlement came from, but just keep going

1492
01:14:30,921 --> 01:14:33,841
Speaker 4: one day at a time and then whatever your dream is,

1493
01:14:33,881 --> 01:14:35,481
Speaker 4: look into what it takes to get there and do

1494
01:14:35,561 --> 01:14:39,760
Speaker 4: it and fuck the haters. I just can't say it enough.

1495
01:14:40,481 --> 01:14:42,521
Speaker 1: I love that and I'm big on it. And you know,

1496
01:14:42,641 --> 01:14:44,881
Speaker 1: if you look follow my post, my Instagram post on

1497
01:14:44,921 --> 01:14:49,001
Speaker 1: the Click podcast. I mean, I'm constantly having little little

1498
01:14:49,041 --> 01:14:52,521
Speaker 1: moments of positive sort of content and I'm big on that,

1499
01:14:52,641 --> 01:14:56,161
Speaker 1: you know, because we all cop it, and the proofs

1500
01:14:56,161 --> 01:14:58,161
Speaker 1: in your actions and as far as I'm concerned that,

1501
01:14:58,641 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, actions speak louder than words, and your actions

1502
01:15:02,401 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 1: are there in proof of what you're trying to achieve

1503
01:15:04,681 --> 01:15:09,521
Speaker 1: and do, and look, I just want to say well done. Congratulations,

1504
01:15:09,601 --> 01:15:11,680
Speaker 1: and I know that it's not been easy to step

1505
01:15:11,761 --> 01:15:14,761
Speaker 1: up today and have this conversation, So thank you for

1506
01:15:15,481 --> 01:15:19,721
Speaker 1: being able to give an informative view of what it

1507
01:15:19,841 --> 01:15:22,041
Speaker 1: is like as a prole officer, because a lot of

1508
01:15:22,041 --> 01:15:24,361
Speaker 1: people don't know and won't understand that. You ever see

1509
01:15:24,361 --> 01:15:25,121
Speaker 1: it from one side of the.

1510
01:15:25,921 --> 01:15:30,241
Speaker 4: Too, that everybody's a human. So whether they're a parole officer,

1511
01:15:30,641 --> 01:15:33,720
Speaker 4: maybe not police, they're not really human. But I'm kidding.

1512
01:15:33,721 --> 01:15:38,241
Speaker 4: I'm kidding any police. I'm so kidding kind, but everybody's

1513
01:15:38,241 --> 01:15:40,601
Speaker 4: a human. So that parole officer is sitting across from you,

1514
01:15:40,961 --> 01:15:43,841
Speaker 4: they're a human. They're just trying to do a job.

1515
01:15:44,401 --> 01:15:47,281
Speaker 4: That offender sitting across from you, he's a human. Have

1516
01:15:47,361 --> 01:15:50,201
Speaker 4: some respect for him as well. He's not beneath you.

1517
01:15:50,641 --> 01:15:53,081
Speaker 4: He's not just because his life went a different way.

1518
01:15:53,521 --> 01:15:56,361
Speaker 4: We just need to treat everyone as a human and

1519
01:15:56,401 --> 01:15:59,641
Speaker 4: that's all I want from the world. But it seems

1520
01:15:59,681 --> 01:16:01,641
Speaker 4: harder to get that then.

1521
01:16:02,641 --> 01:16:05,641
Speaker 1: Well too, Chel, I think you're amazing and anybody else

1522
01:16:05,721 --> 01:16:09,121
Speaker 1: out there, guys, Look, I hope you've really enjoyed the

1523
01:16:09,201 --> 01:16:12,241
Speaker 1: chat with Trischelle today and got some really good informative information.

1524
01:16:12,321 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 1: I've been I've thoroughly enjoyed it, and it's a side

1525
01:16:15,081 --> 01:16:17,481
Speaker 1: that I've really wanted to hear and be heard from

1526
01:16:17,481 --> 01:16:20,321
Speaker 1: someone that's lived it. So on, behalf of the clink.

1527
01:16:20,521 --> 01:16:23,321
Speaker 1: Thanks for your time, thank you for joining me, and

1528
01:16:23,361 --> 01:16:27,641
Speaker 1: everybody out there. Continue to go through each episode. Like

1529
01:16:27,681 --> 01:16:30,121
Speaker 1: I said, seventeen seasons, a lot of hard work and

1530
01:16:30,161 --> 01:16:34,761
Speaker 1: a lot of amazing stories of people's lives that are inspiring.

1531
01:16:35,001 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 1: Trachelle's is no different and we will be back next week.

1532
01:16:38,761 --> 01:16:41,641
Speaker 1: Big shout out once again Sideway, Surf Pod Shape. Thank

1533
01:16:41,681 --> 01:16:44,081
Speaker 1: you guys and to you the listener. This doesn't work

1534
01:16:44,121 --> 01:16:46,441
Speaker 1: without you. Have a fantastic dame and be the best

1535
01:16:46,441 --> 01:16:46,801
Speaker 1: you can be.

1536
01:16:48,321 --> 01:16:51,841
Speaker 2: Fort Record, don't try and make you out comfortable. Photo

1537
01:16:51,961 --> 01:16:54,801
Speaker 2: Record you try and world and stuff for your dad.

1538
01:16:54,841 --> 01:16:57,961
Speaker 2: Photo Record lab on me going hard the way way.

1539
01:16:58,121 --> 01:17:00,921
Speaker 2: Photo Record, ain't trying to link, No trying to wat stuff.

1540
01:17:01,761 --> 01:17:09,681
Speaker 3: Record for record for the record, for the rage, for

1541
01:17:09,881 --> 01:17:11,921
Speaker 3: the record, for the reckon

1542
01:17:23,201 --> 01:17:23,241
Speaker 1: M